The War on the West | Douglas Murray | EP 247
This episode was recorded on March 14th, 2022.
In this episode, Douglas Murray and I discuss the current assault on the West, slavery, gratitude, racist mathematics, whiteness, (non-Western) accomplishments, and individual sovereignty.
Douglas Murray is the associate editor of The Spectator and the bestselling author of seven books, including The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam; The Madness of Crowds, and The War on the West.
Order Douglas' new book ‘The War on the West’: amazon.com/War-West-Douglas-M...
-Links-
Follow Murray on Twitter: / douglaskmurray
Instagram: / douglaskmurray
Read Murray’s articles: spectator.co.uk/writer/dougla...
-Chapters-
[0:00] Intro
[1:36] Why ‘War’?
[8:41] Western Values, Revenge, Nietzsche
[14:13] Slavery, Individuality, Rationalism
[21:11] Eradicating Slavery
[27:42] Agency & Oppression
[33:10] Psychopathic Expressors of Power
[38:04] Wealth Inequality: Exclusively Capitalist?
[47:25] On Whiteness
[54:21] Axioms & Truth
[1:02:21] The STEM Moat
[1:08:46] The War on Western Art & Culture
[1:19:14] Mass Graves & Burning Churches
[1:25:52] Gratitude, Resentment, & The Brothers Karamazov
[1:36:19] Ancestry & Living as Though God Exists
[1:42:53] Faith, Evil, Cain & Abel
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Douglas Murray's The War on the West is available now on Amazon: amzn.to/3veyXqF
The fact these videos and those like it aren't getting any more views/likes than they are..... well, its the simplest evidence I can think of proving where we are as a people (and in many more ways than I care to get into at the moment because I have somewhere to be)! Seriously though, if you aren't; interested enough, have enough comprehension skills to follow along, believe them BOTH wrong, aren't the least bit edified afterwards...... well, I guess I did have time to go into A BIT of the ways it proves (embarrassingly) how far we've fallen as a people! Everyone these days seems to like being about "self"..... I just wish if that MUST continue, it also included an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and especially a desire for *THE TRUTH* ! Anyway, I really must go..... God Bless you Jordan and Douglas as well as your families!
I enjoy your podcast as a historian and would suggest the similarities between the cultural revolution in China and the current cancel culture of the west.
The sodomy is the last sign before the complete destruction of a civilization.
Why did you cancel your last event?
It's totalitarianism - not authoritarianism. The globalists from the World Economic Forum and their puppets such as Trudeau and his cabinet, the ruling governments of New Zealand, Australia, France, Italy, etc. - they all tyrannize their people WITHOUT any significant authority or social support, such as approval rating, which their all are below Vladimir Putin's approval rate of around 75%. They rule through direct violence (Canada, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Australia), threat of violence, threat of stealing a citizen's property and bank assets, euthanizing his pets, kidnapping his children by "social services" (Canada especially) and fear- and hate-mongering propaganda through corporate media and mass censorship by proxy of the Big Tech cartel (all countries of the West). They hold no authority.
If you really think I'm going to watch 2 hours of JBP and DM on my free monday evening after a hard day at work, you're absolutely damn right!
The two most complete cultural commentators on the planet having a chat? What better way to unwind. Maybe James Lindsay will join them later and I'll take tomorrow off to watch on repeat and overdose on good red wine. Enjoy mate.
Lol, love your comment,. Hugs 🤗
You can say that again
Want a pat on the back or something?
@@AB-et6nj simmer down
When Douglas said “it’s not about fairness, it’s about revenge” I realized something I knew unconsciously for years.
Whole of white west culture is built on murder, theft and genocide
@@bazle64 every culture has murder, slavery and conquest in their history, Britian and America also has the eradication of slavery to its history. While today there are still millions of slaves none of which are in the west.
@@joncampbell5021 white-aboutism
@@bazle64 😂 strawman
@@joncampbell5021 as a white feminist. I only breed with black men.
As a British Indian man, I try to call out this injustice where ever I see it. My heart bleeds for my white brothers and sisters. Just know some of us stand in solidarity with you. Humanity must stand as one!
Thank you fot that!
For
What injustice? Do you really think that those who you call your “white brothers and sisters” in Britain regard you with such affection? As a child, in Britain, I saw disturbing scenes of Indian women being spat on by groups of my white school peers, on my journeys home from school. Things have moved on a bit since then, but Kinship? You may dream of and long for it, but I think you are just useful. Now, grown up, I see that some of you make trouble for Black people in the workplace.
Pick your side. You can not be both BRITISH and INDIAN man. You either one or NONE ! Please stop those CURRY restauriants ...they reek havoc, suffocating
Thank you
Douglas Murray is a national treasure. We should be glad to have him.
I totally agree, I'm a kiwi who lives in Australia and Douglas Murray is literally a breath of fresh air. I am a huge fan of JP but to hear these two great men in discussion is a work of true art
@Ghost_of_a_Flea oh stop with this stupid line . Jesus Christ just find something else to say . It's the most used line in youtube.🤮 . Sorry it's not about you personally but for the lack of originality.
Case Blue
Slight correction, Douglas Murray is an international treasure.
@kim-jong-poon , I was just going to comment that . Hilarious name btw 😂
What 'multiculturalism' boils down to is that you can praise any culture in the world except Western culture - and you cannot blame any culture in the world except Western culture. -Thomas Sowell
This reminds me of what David Horowitz pointed out about "people of color". Everyone is a "person of color" except white people.
@@johnwhiter9899 IMO, white's peachy. 😉
@@johnwhiter9899 well no shit, whites aren't a color. They called everyone else colored.
@@johnwhiter9899 I think white people should be deemed as the true "colored" people rather than black since they can come in many different hair and eye colors...
Think about the boring ‘monoculturistic clones’ societies! Is that how we bring peace on earth!?
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”
Indeed! Which is why authoritarian regimes usually target the literati first.
Yes, which is what white people did to black people during slavery
Exactly. Thanks!
ironic, coming from peterson
I was going to write a commentary. BUT you nailed it....
Douglas Murray is one of today’s leading Anglo-Saxon intellectuals. Murray has a terrific mind, and I look forward to reading his book. Thank You, Dr. Peterson!
I'm glad that Jordan and Douglas brought up the matter of heroes in the past times. They are the two heroes in our time, something we need very much today. Thank you, gentlemen!
living history, and the story of our generation.
Whenever I listen to brilliant conversations like this it makes me realize that I am surrounded by willfully ignorant people
🥉
I have friends I call ( to their face often) the Willfully Ignorant....it's like association with Zombies sometimes
Indeed
Being silent is far more interesting than I thought it would be. And much less irritating too.
I listen and think…man, I’m ignorant! 🥹
"The deconstructionists always attempt to deconstruct everything but their tenured university jobs." OMG that slayed me 😂
Douglas is a savage 😂
Literally Robert Reich lmfao
Slayed? Don't you mean slew?
@@guynicholls8154 Or Noddy Holder ?
@@guynicholls8154 nobody likes a nerd, Guy
Just love these two highly intelligent men, who keep things in perspective in the craziness of today’s world! Huge respect to you both gentlemen! 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Amen to that
They are not "intelligent"!The West is in decline and they are totally clueless.
God Bless Jordan Peterson and Douglas Murray.
@mariesan3710 We need no God! Bigotry is bigotry. Just plain wrong.
❤❤❤
“We deserve the right to have heroes.” Yes. Yes we do. I’m looking at two of mine right now.
We are incredibly blessed to live in an era where we have access to conversations like this one.
... for now.
I fear we may not be in the era where open honest conversation is permitted. Enter: The Ministry of Truth 😣😖😤😡🤬
@@Gongers01 Big Brother on steroids at the expense of USA taxpayers yet again USA WH and puppeteers living as Oligarchs. Can USA survive Obiden and Pelosi peasants??? Research Active Measures for communism socialism. 5 stages under Biden USA now in stage 4. USA is being destroyed from within due to Pelosi Obama 3 with puppet Biden.
Sadly it's a wound in some sense that there is a need for conversation of this type .
Yes a couple racist white men patting each other on the back for not being racist.
Douglas Murray is a brilliant and brave man. This attack on Western European culture needs to end before everyone is consumed by the flames of nihilism.
After listening to all that, they both didn't provide a single solution.
@@sammybolton2591 I'll tell you the solution (at least for Europe): stop mass immigration, more incentives for families to encourage pregnancies and stop the agenda that is pushing demoralization on white people.
@@sammybolton2591 Remember, they want you to buy and read the book. I have. It's outstanding.
@@sammybolton2591 Did you listen to the entire podcast? Murray explicitly says cultivating 'gratitude' for what Western civilization has given the world is an antidote for the underlying resentment that has fueled this modern trend to reduce Western tradition exclusively to its worst failings and most egregious acts; no culture throughout human history has escaped such failings. Both Murray and Peterson agree it's a very high bar for people to reach, however, because as humans we are loathe to hold ourselves responsible for our choice to feel resentment. And as Murray says, resentment is a very strong emotion. It's a difficult concept to grapple with, just as practicing forgiveness is.
@@1CuriousMuse again!!! Where is the fucking solution!! Positive steps to help tackle the issues at hand!! You know why you never hear solutions? I'll fucking tell you why! Because they're scared of the backlash if they provide any.
I no longer feel alone in this. I honestly thought I was the only one thinking this way. I felt guilty and ashamed for thinking this way. But my human side , my logical thinking kept questioning me. Seems that Douglass explained my questions and my understanding of this subject. Thank you.
You are far from alone. Douglas is correct. It is not acceptable for anyone to tear down our culture and leave us with nothing, any more than it would be acceptable to do that to an African culture, an Asian culture. Etc. we have a right to take that personally, and to object to it
As an immigrant, you are not alone. Western traditions and costumes must be defended at all cost, also, because of immigrants who seek refuge in this culture. We should talk more about INTEGRATION to western culture and our new home than diversity. 1:28:23
You’ve been gaslighted sir, like the rest of us, by education, media, government and corporations all working in lockstep to propagandize and stifle all dissent. It’s much worse than most people can imagine.
I’m not sure how old you are but I grew up in the 90’s and this conditioning was definitely there then. It’s been festering for decades and white people know all too well well what they can say and not say. The same goes for what you think and people. You’re expected to be a punching bag both literally and figuratively as a way of balancing out the sins of the past. It’s disgusting!
I’Ve watched many interviews with Douglas Murray and I think this is his best and most real. Thank you gentleman.
As an immigrant in America, I have to say that Douglas’ analysis is spot on. People like me come here because the West is awesome and gives the highest equality of opportunity to diverse groups. It used to be puzzling to me why so many born and brought up here don’t see it, but then fish don’t necessarily realize they’re in water…it’s all they know
Thank you for saying it.
There is a lot good about the western tradition. The Enlightenment values, for examples. A focus on materialism, scientific progress. However, it is not just extremists on the left who are threatening this. It's people from the right. Most people on the left do not actually reject western enlightenment values. We've been defending it for decades against theocratic religious rightwingers and authoritarian groups. I don't like the Post-Modern left either.
I have to politely disagree with you, the problem is world over but deeply seeded in the western world through mass indoctrination and brainwashing. They want us to believe that we are free meanwhile we ravage the world to what ends? And have an elite group of tramps in control at the top who set the rules for the masses which most blindly follow, and these fuckers run pedophile rings based in London and party whilst they had us believe that we had to be in lock downs for everyones safety.. Missing out on sacred funerals, childbirth, weddings all sorts of crucial and fundamental events human beings are here to participate in as the celebration of life. Yes other world countries are corrupt too but when you look back at history it stems from the roman empire and then the western take over of many other countries... Where Britain for example raided and pillaged other countries resources and stole their ancient artifacts to stick in their museums and parade themselves as high and mightier than others. It's all a lie but not a lot of people have the stomach to see it for what it is. I'm from Ireland my country was impacted by it the ancient celtic culture, but when I attended college in the UK I realised that the British people aren't even educated on what their history is God help them all they think they have taught the rest of the world and helped them out of some kind of depravity. But in reality they decimated cultures and caused genocides knowingly.
Fish cannot be taught, human beings can, problem arises when they are are either willfully blind to reality or deliberately malevolent (as Jordan has said in multiple ways). The west is struggling with a burgeoning issue of immigration from countries that do not have what we have, yet people born here still want to burn it to the ground in favor of ...what exactly? If even 10% of the "woke "snowflakes went and spent 6 months living in some of these horrifically poverty and disease stricken areas, living just as the locals do 100%, having to walk miles and miles for water filled with parasites and bacteria, trying to grow crops in dead drought ridden soil, being hungry for days on end etc etc - if they managed to survive this ordeal (and some won't), I think they would come back to the west and start shouting at all their woke snowflake friends to STFU - just STFU, you have NO CLUE how FUCKING EASY YOUR LIVES ARE, how blessed you are to live in western society with it's good healthcare and wall to wall clean water and wifi, you must be OUT OF YOUR MINDS TO WANT TO BURN IT DOWN, literally INSANE to want to destroy what's been built here - because even with the blood of colonialism and slavery on it's hands it's STILL a lot fucking better than the alternative. If you hate western society that much, go live where I've just been, and I'll bet both my balls in less than 3 months you'll be BEGGING to come back. If I was a billionaire, that's how I would fix this crisis - give all woke people a free plane ticket to one of these places, with a promise £100,000 if they last 6 months - I'd bet most will either die or forfeit the money to come back early. But they'll never understand, because they don't WANT TO. (but ironically they still complain about "no wifi signal, whaaa"). Honestly, if this gets much worse, humanity would deserve an apocalypse, NEED IT, to wipe it all away and start again.
you can't understand what hard life means if you're a spoiled, cuddled brat... There's no light without darkness and all that :(. My idea is: take all the green haired wokies with their pronouns and ship them to a 3rd world country for a week. Guaranteed they won't make a single noise ever again when they get back :)))
We, Great Britain have a thousand years of history I said to my university lecturer when discussing the EU, he replied - What is history. My heart dropped. I walked away remembering my Grandfather who died in agony from mustard gas and went blind for this country his country. I am way past politeness. Thank you for speaking of your dear friend Roger Scruton. I listen to him and learn so much. I’m grateful for those who gave so much for those who were alive at the time and those yet to be born. Me, my father and millions of us.
@ C S Good God! A university professor escapes relevant comment with pedantics. "Oh professor please explain why a definition of history with a cut-off point in the past, will be helpful in the search for knowledge."
British guys R epitome of husband material They respect their wives/girlfriends Provide for them Always treat them like princess Britain will never collapse A country where women r treated with respect will always prosper Long live Britain Love from india
Nobody knows less about British history than the Brits 😉
@Perturbed Atheist Both Brits but call themselves Europeans and married to East Europeans
It boils down to racism against Western peoples.
JP and Murray are my heroes. They have given me great strength and inspiration. The world is better with them in it.
Thes two gentlemen are national treasures to the USA and GB! I adore Douglas Murray! I cannot wait to listen to the wisdom. The sanity in an inverted and twisted world we are currently living in! Thank God for JP!
UK and Canada is probably what you want to say.
Yea, JP is Canadian not American...but agree with your sentiments
Murray has now become the clearest voice in saying what needs to be said. A powerful force for getting us back on course.
I never thought i would hear a person articulate the exact words coming from my mind
@@alexvalin9085 Thank-you, Alex. Nice to hear from you.
Hahaha poor hopeful souls. You have absolutely no idea how much worse this world is going to be. Cheers.
@@MrLeroyFox We're proverbially screwed if we can only rely on reason and logic to get through the coming storm. There will be blood, especially of the reasonable and honest men first.
@@david_6063 He's my to go to person right now. I think he misses certain stuff going on, but he's like you said, the clearest voice. My main guy is Thomas Sowell, but there isn't much new stuff dropping as he's 91.
As a Ugandan living in Germany, I approve of the entire gratitude section. DM literally took the words out of my mouth 🙏🏿 I once said the exact same thing in a podcast 1 year ago but less eloquently. It feels good to know that we share the same thought despite me lacking the eloquence to put those thoughts out so beautifully 😘 it’s been worth it sitting in the entire Saturday. If in a few years I’m still here and my child messes around with that patriarchy nonsense I’m taking him/her back to Uganda ASAP, thanks for that tip too 🤣🤣🤣
I understand you completely... Very well put..
My gratitude to you sir for coming from a very diffetent culture and being so respectful of ours ... That's all we wish for ...
Next years will be unsafe in the world. Conservative totalitarian movements will return and will be no safe for non-white people in Europe. I recommend you to return to Uganda ASAP. Regards
As long as you are clear , to the point and from the heart, don't worry about sounding eloquent. I'm sure you are very eloquent in your first language. You speak English very well
@@dickslaughter2 Sterling comment. We all need to respond with serenity and logic ...
I really like this man Douglas Murray.
I am glad for eventually somebody has guts to write this book! It’s long overdue. Thank you,Mr. Murray!
Thinking it won’t be purchased for Library lending😮
"If you won't respect my ancestors, my culture, and my history - then why should I respect yours?!" Indeed, every single Canadian of European heritage needs to hear and understand these words. I will no longer accept this disrespect coming from anyone. If I lose a few "friends" or family members - then so be it!
Well said... Respect is a 2 way street
I’ve often said every day we’re just one week away from this thing going off like a powder keg
@@stephaniezank7717 hi, Stephanie, Murray was talking about his (literal, British) ancestors/culture/history - specifically Rex Whistler, a man who died on D-Day fighting for principles that are worthy of right praise .. instead, Whistler was derided a racist based on the past sins of ancestors not his actions. Objectively, you, me, and 99% of rational folk wouldn’t find the actions of Nazis respectable .. so, we should be able to agree the west’s ancestors and cultures *on the right side of history* can be deemed respectable (I hope) /Ted
@@stephaniezank7717 Yes. 1/2 of my ancestors were Jews from Germany, all murdered in the Holocaust . Because Nazis were murderous morons, should I follow their example or use them as a model? I think not.
What can u repeat that
I have learned so much from Jordan Peterson and his talks, I can't believe how asleep I have been for 55 years, thank you for the history and all your work. I am learning things I have never been taught in all my life.
Sometimes a history lesson is from your own family and their life stories. I hate that history repeats itself. I do agree with you - I too have learned so much from podcasts
Ya love to see it. I found JBP and shared his work with my parents. They love him as well now. It's like you can look back on the past with eagle eyes after learning little lessons from him and you think, how did I not see that coming?!
So glad I found J.P. videos. Ty.
The "education system" will never teach the most important things we need to learn.
Learning is beautiful
Murray has evoked Lord Kenneth Clark. As suspected, Murray is a man of civilization.
The fact that out of all the JP interviews I’ve seen, this one has Jordan commentating the least…? I dunno, it tells me that what Douglas is saying realllly deserves the stage. That he knows exactly what he’s talking about and how to say it thoroughly and effectively… thank you for the work you both do! I’m definitely gunna purchase this book. We need to arm ourselves with the truth!
You gentleman give a young man with no future such as myself a tiny ray of hope in this dark, scary time. Thank you for talking about the things that nobody else seems to be talking about. Thank you for speaking the truth, and asking the questions everyone else is too afraid to ask.
the present is all u need son
As a (relatively) young woman, I also struggle with how bleak things seem. But we can’t give up. The most revolutionary act is to proclaim loudly what is happening. Keep speaking the truth. That’s all we can do when we feel powerless.
A lot of people are concerned and are talking about these issues, but we certainly need more sensible people to talk about them. Thing is Peterson is articulate and informed so he can my a proposition and defend it, and that's not easy. My aim as a young man is to become more adept at communication. Remember that clip about the purpose of college is to learn how to communicate and think.
Your generation has always been the heroes of our nation!! Keep up the hope, you will redefine things, and don’t be afraid! Hard times make great men! It doesn’t matter what’s happening around us. Enjoy life, see the good Not the bad, appreciate the little things, keep your loved ones close, and realize happiness is really just a bunch of small moments strung together. Sometimes societies are happier when they have less. Take this time to learn skills of the past. Think of it as a fun journey. Don’t put too much pressure on yourself and don’t be afraid to fail. The more you fail the closer you are to success and the more you learn!! Last: realize that true happiness rests in Jesus Christ, and seek and you shall find. 😉
The future is still to be made
Brilliant episode. I can never get enough of Douglas Murray.
Same
Brilliant man.
he's wonderful, a true passion for culture
Me either..he is awesome!
Hours of interview this week as well. He was on Rogan, triggernometry, modern wisdom and new culture forum 🙌🏻
I've laughed and cried. Especially when Mr. Murray described the paintings, and our heroes etc... it was Especially poignant.... thank you both.
I followed along, listened hard, understood most words, and can officially say we're incredibly fortunate to have the such smart people, good people like Jordan and Douglas, and we get to listen to them, only in exchange for time. Deal!
"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." -Orwell
I think , he would be very surprised how USA overdone his prediction :)
@@suttonadmiral891 So is Russia and China.....oh wait....most gigantic ones....
@@suttonadmiral891 just the USA???? Come on man !!!
@@suttonadmiral891 From your statement it is plain that you either got nothing from listening to the discussion, or, more likely, listened to little or none of it.
@@mikejacob3536 >pseudointellectual haterism ensues uh huh, thats nice
Please interview Thomas Sowell …..he’s in his 90s now and needs more recognition for his work in tackling these types of issues yet he probably won’t be around for too much longer , he’s getting up there now
Epic idea!!
I’ve been gathering up Thomas Sowell’s books in the last two weeks. Once he’s gone, those book prices are going up.
Second this idea. What a nice thing to consider
ABSOLUTELY ! IMPORTANT 👍
@@voicemonkey3886 that’s a weird thing to do
Thank you both so much. I'm quite sure there is a war on free society, our history, family and community.
And the only way to stop it is at the local level.
There is not!
@@Carbon915 there is not! Okay. You're welcome.🙏
Brenda, seek the Lord. He is the power and the glory, and the only way,. Amen.
@@Carbon915 Seek the Lord. Amen.
I bought War on The West and I adore both these brilliant men ❤
It's good to see that by researching his new book, Murray has broadened his perspective on slavery. In past interviews re BLM, the 2020 riots, etc. he has seemed to allude to slavery as being a particularly American issue. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sadly, it has been a worldwide phenomenon for thousands of year. As Thomas Sowell points out, there were more Europeans enslaved by the Barbary Pirates than the total number of African slaves in America. Indeed, it is the west, and particularly the UK and the USA, which has done more to end worldwide slavery than any other culture.
19:57 murray > explaines smth profound about the nature of slavery for a good minute perterson > deflects with a comically smarty wordsalad.
Hence the term ‘Slav’ in Eastern Europe.
Murray has a good deal of hypocrisy. He bashed Putin and Russia but he never bashed UK for destroying Iraq .
Yes, the majority of those espousing this ideology are committing the anachronism fallacy. The arrogance is outstanding. Essentially standing on the shoulders of your ancestors, as if you were any better. Slavery was legal throughout the world. It’s part of our history as a specie. Digging up graves won’t do anything. Rather foolish that people don’t see it.
This is of course followed by the classic bad faith response of "By pointing out European suffering you are minimizing the suffering of BIPOC's and other minorities.". They understand that victim narratives are extremely powerful and will never allow other groups to diminish their current monopoly on them. People need to understand it is about power, not empathy.
Without western culture, where would we be? Hell. Amen. 2 hours very well spent. Thank you, JBP and Douglas Murray.
Well said. Although I would credit our Western Culture to Christianity. Actually, now that I think about it, I would credit it to the Biblical God. Israel is also very productive.
@@atargo2 name a specific country outside the western tradition that is majority Christian and that won’t be very difficult to answer
@@analysisonlight605 Nope, christianity prohibited humanity from development. Only Renaissance who came back to Roman and Greek culture and started church reformation enabled progress. Christianity is tremendous black hole.
as a non western native, i always found it funny, how so many leftists hate on white ppl and complain about their culture being bad or evil or oppressive... by voicing these opinions thru devices largely made or created or invented by white ppl, sitting in their first world country standards and home with countless laws and items and infrastructure largely made possible from white ppl. we should make game show where they live in a studio with only non white made or invented ideas and objects and see how they enjoy their lives then. or just send them to saudi or kenya and see how their activism goes lol. they complain about the very ppl that allows them the right to complain in the first place
@@user-gs9tb4tl4d cyka blyat, nice Comment lmao 😂
I've followed Douglas Murray for a couple of years now, he has such clear understanding of the complete mess we are in and has the courage to speak out, I believe our country could be rebuilt in terms of pride and hard work, if a man like this were our Prime Minister. Imagine, Douglas Murray, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom! I can hear the applause now, its' deafening.......that's my dream..
Excellent!!! Please continue talking about this! Every. Single. Subject you touched on!!
I am grateful that I was not sooo deeply rooted in resentment that I was unwilling to listen to Jordan and understand my own role in my suffering. I am a much happier person having come to terms with that and aiming myself in the direction of truth and love. Thank you to both of you for your work, and especially Jordan for vocalizing what I needed to hear that I could not vocalize myself.
Dr. Peterson always astonishes me with his ability to articulate everything I can't say on my own.
You are so right, I share the same experience. I’m so glad I was aware enough about holding onto resentment and causing my own suffering. We are our own worst enemy at times! Take care!
Yes, Jordan says things in a vary articulate way . Great gift. His discussion o suffering I could feel, and was so helpful. Someone else knows...Good guests too. Just a decent forum of podcasts. Enriching.
I found this conversation to be one of the most fascinating conversations I have heard in a while. The University that I attend in South Africa (Stellenbosch University) has a psychology course, which I take, that has the exact claims made in this video. The curriculum seems to be attached to the past injustices of our country (apartheid), and sort of uses it as a smokescreen to attach these anti-western views to it. The Marxist and Liberal views they use make it seem like the answer to all our problems when here in SA the problems lie way beyond that. For instance. there is an article that we have to read called "Challenging the Hegemony of Eurocentric Psychology" by ANTHONY VERNON NAIDOO which we needed to read and write academic essays based off of it. I am shocked at how global this is becoming
It seems that they want to bring back the "old days." And play a reverse uno card.
Is there anything wrong in Naidoo’s article?
@@DivertingTales Thank you for posting this. I have read it twice already and you actually taught me a lot. After my first read, the diversity of psychological tenets actually reminded me of the schisms of Christianity. The first break from Catholicism in Europe to now actually 1,700 forms of Christianity. If someone disagreed with an aspect, start another sect.
Awe bra
Michail, I want to create a chat somewhere, to gather people who explores Jordan's works. would you like to join?
Enjoyed the lecture between you and Jordan Peterson. The description of the program says it was a year ago. Douglas, you nailed the tumultuous times we are living today - quite prophetically. Have not read “The War on the West”but will now. Thank you for the profoundly important dialogue between the two of you.
What an incredible conversation. Thank you Douglas and Jordan!
Two of the smartest people in the popular culture of 2022 having a nice chat for almost 2 hours. AWESOME!
go ahead waste your money on this foo s book. these two mother faking clowns should address the enslavement and exploitment torture of the most innocent creatures on the planet-animals. murray is a modern day slave master. blacks were not only enslaved-they were raped tortured , children molested and raped , experimented on etc etc.... majority of whites still hate blacks just for being black-i live in canada-i know this for a fact. i cant listen to these two racist any more. talkin shit bout blacks selling blacks.
Douglas has articulated very clearly what is going on in our culture. Great conversation. Thank you.
@Nachos Andcheese We have a right to be angry....all of us no matter our color due to the shit system that's been forced on us.
@Nachos Andcheese I think anger is all we have left.
Whoa! This is a very important topic worldwide. Thankyou so much Jordan and Douglas.
Love you douglas, keep speaking and being a good human being!
I think the reasons Mr. Murray or Dr. Peterson are so popular is they can articulate things that many people see but can't describe. They also do it with a dry wit and brilliant vocabulary!
Well Douglas definitely can. I think Jordan was still in some discomfort at the time. At least he appeared to me to be suffering in some way.
In a long line of important and interesting podcasts from Jordan Peterson, this one ranks up there as one of the the most important to listen to. Absolutely brilliant.
You're right, book marketing is a lot better than his usual babble.
I read Douglas's books "The Strange Death of Europe" and "The Madness of Crowds". IMO he really nails what's happening around us. I haven't read The War on the West yet, but now that I've listened to this video, I will as what he said really resonates with me. However, I wasn't convinced that Jordan felt the same, at least not as much as I would have thought he would.
Jordan appears more emotionally involved with people and their individual needs on a one to one basis. But he has done much more than most to educate us about large scale issues, as has Murray, the Trigernometry fellows, and others. When a person has gone through as much as JP has, and in the public eye, maybe you reserve your passion for the causes closer to you. Also logic and emotion rarely mix well.
What a treat to have two geniuses have an intellectually unfettered discussion on issues of the utmost importance for humanity with such courtesy towards each other. Thank you, Gentlemen. ❣️
Fantastic Interview! The more I listen to you Jordan, the more I understand you are a morally grounded man. You've earned my sincerest respect.
He's like Jesus, just more full of himself.
By demanding respect for his history, Murray finally gets to the heart of the matter when he decides that civil society, not to mention prosperity, is made possible by mutual respect between and among individuals, not embrace of diversity reinforced by institutions desperately trying to please mobs.
Well stated:)
Fine, but you don't know what 'civil society' means. Civil society does NOT mean 'a society characterized by niceness.' It does NOT mean 'social conditions of peaceableness, tolerance,' or any such things at all. It has the specific meaning "Those elements of organized society apart from government and business, taken as a whole." In other words, clubs, associations, political parties qua political parties, charities, bodies for professional regulation, amateur sporting organizations, and all the rest-even, in the very widest sense, families. I could go on but you must get it by now. Don't try to get fancy, just say "a good society", for I think that's what you meant.
@@dixonpinfold2582 While on a technical level, your definition is correct, this isn't a technical civics discussion, and being "civil" has other meanings in broader contexts; such as 'interactions characterised by mutual respect or tolerance' and taken together "civil society" has a well understood idiomatic meaning of not just the civil components of society but the civil(ised) character with which they are conducted. You're aware of this as you correctly identified the meaning of the original post, so I'm baffled by your criticism, and (veiled) insult to the OP's intelligence. It's completely unwarranted to both the OP's sentiment and it's delivery.
@@BenignViewer Give it up. You're wrong. As a very clever person (she clearly is) the OP doubtless appreciates the correction. Your own writing and thinking is loose and sloppy, incidentally, and I think that's probably what you're really standing up for: the right to abuse precise terms and idioms in the name of 'anything goes,' of 'let's all take it easy,' 'it's all a matter of opinion,' 'my ignorance is as good as your knowledge,' 'dictionaries don't need to be taken very seriously', 'all points of view are equally valid' etc.
@@dixonpinfold2582 LOL. How can such a mind reader as you ever be wrong or overreaching? I shall never recover from the crushing arguments: "you're wrong" and "give it up". 🤣
I'm just finishing the book. Really a worthwhile read and I so envy Douglas Murray's incisive mind.
Douglas Murray gives such great and passionate interviews. Thought-provoking and thoroughly enjoyable.
That story about Rex Whistler saddened the hell out of me, it completely deflated me and then angered me. Douglas is right, how dare they. This woke tyranny is utterly destructive and with little basis from what I can see.
I think one angle of it is this that those opposing this sort of thing need to reflect on; the woke will boycott and cause a stir about an "offensive" mural, but the anti-woke will still attend the gallery that removes it and will otherwise patronize places that spit on their values. I have seen this in my own family, my parents are as anti-woke as can be but they will still give their money to the companies and institutions that they complain about. I don't think this failing is particular to my parents.
Same, it really affected me.
I think Murray unwittingly undermined his argument for free speech with that rant. He seems to be tacitly saying that the free exercise of offensive speech about white people's ancestors will destroy social harmony and create a violent white backlash. That's exactly the argument the woke Left makes with regard to what they call "hate speech"
There were a few moments in the book that had this effect on me but the Rex Whistler story is very sad indeed.
@@cabbage9398 Come now. You're being obtuse. There is an obvious difference between the right to free speech and a need for civility in a functioning society.
I loved this so much I watched it twice!! I am currently studying in my sociology class and of all the constructs to discuss, race is again the most prevalent berating the white person. I am a white female and when you spoke about haveing to be "polite and courteous" it was as if you were reading my mind. It irritates me that I have to keep defending myself when I have done no wrong and wish to do no wrong to ANYONE. Thank you both so much for sharing your wisdom. My hope is that somehow society as a whole will learn to understand each other as unique individuals and focus on the things that really matter. But how can we do this? I am so buying this book. Many blessings to you both.
This is why I hate listening to super smart people. They always come up with points I wish I had made!! 🙂 Well done Jordan and Douglas! This was very engaging, mind-stretching, and deeply rewarding to listen to. Thank you both for your various works and public contributions!
So grateful gentlemen- Thank you.. Please keep speaking out.. 🙏👌🏆❤️
“It is a mark of a tyrant to have men of foreign extraction rather than citizens as guests at table and companions, feeling that citizens are hostile but strangers make no claim against him” - Socrates
Profound words from a great thinker.
Basically our political elite in a nut shell
@Maryann Iamartino 😂😂😂 Get out of town
Sounds like Trudeau.
I have to take exception to one thing Mr Murray said. The New York Times is a “kooky, far out, fringe publication”,at least philosophically, It’s time to regard it publicly as such.
Joe Rogan, Triggernometry and now JP! Douglas Murray is on quite a roll. Love all the content. These discussions are so enjoyable.
Was also on Chris Williamson’s channel, add that one to your library of subscriptions
Believe this is the modern version of the 'book tour' since he has a new one out.
His books are great
Triggernometry is like the proverbial broken clock.
@@Ralph_Baric_PhD_C2019 He's a deep thinker who values books; probably too much for the modern era, but time will tell who is right in that decision. He only really appears in public when it's time to push the next book, but it's always on-point.
2 of my favourite people discussing a vital topic of our times.
Can't believe I missed this when it came out! Two of the great thought-leaders of our time... I don't think I've ever had almost 2hr slip by so quickly, only to be left with "please do 10hr more!". I really think you two should have a monthly discussion. Douglas is one of the greatest orators since Hitchens, with a rapists' wit and razor-tongue to match. Brilliant discussion guys! I'm off to buy "War on the West" this moment.
A rapist's wit?😮 think you mean rapier ...
Two amazingly brilliant people. Highly enriching conversation.
Hahahahhaahaha
“The 20th century may not have been enough.” Absolutely chilling.
Can you provide the timestamp for this quote?
Found it: 1:49:15
@@gipsybauski8971 you beat me to it! Chilling, right?
Absolutely love the academic streaming options available today; it makes me feel like I'm not alone in my pursuit of knowledge.
The thing that keeps me alive @ 79 yrs old, is the availability of knowledge like this.. It gives me hope that we have such visionary intellectuals amongst us...
hi. so, I'm quite new to this type knowledge and i find it really interesting especially coming from a supposedly "oppressed" background. do you have any recommendations for similar content? i don't mind if some of it is from the other point of view. thanks
Absolutely brilliant and highly enlightening! Here, I do actually learn things and angles I didn't yet know. Thank you to both of you!
“Gratitude is a form of courage” - That is such a profound concept. It reminds me of the old Smiths lyrics: “It’s so easy to hate, it’s so easy to laugh. It takes strength to be gentle and kind”
10000%
It's easy to be kind & gentle.
“Ohhhh mother… I can feel…. The soil falling over my head….”
Yeah it’s really easy to be cynical and hate the world. It’s really hard to be grateful for what it has given you.
It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate, it takes guts to be gentle and kind.
Two of the absolute BRILLIANT thinkers of our day... JBP & Douglas Murray, what a treat this is sure to be!
I also enjoy Victor Davis Hanson, another great thinker and very down to earth
Douglas was born to explain things, in an eloquent and forthright manner...
Outstanding conversation between two of today's great thinkers and writers. I really enjoyed Douglas Murray's "The Strange Death of Europe" back in 2018. Must read "The Madness of Crowds" and "The War on the West". Western civilisation has to be defended at all costs. Children need to be learning positive aspects about our culture, they need to have a sense of their country's history. Many people these days are incredibly ignorant about western history and culture. So few people listen to any classical music, for example.
Love you Douglas love your books great podcast I always learn something new.❤
One of the greatest moral challenges of a person is to keep going in the direction of their ideals when their ideals, themselves, are under attack.
Well said!
And to keep going in spite of getting fired, deplatformed, demonetized, canceled, black-listed, ostracized, defamed, and essentially silenced from all major platforms. It's sad how millions believe upstanding men such as Peterson and Murray are looked down upon as being racist, transphobes, sexist, misogynists, and other -ists or -phobes. It's sad how merely "following" such men on social media can get you in deep sh!t even if you disagree with most of their views and are merely curious about differing viewpoints. It goes to show you how easily people can be brainwashed to believe in the most absurd things.
Continuity is so important.
Listening to these two GIANTS on the 'reading' of our cloudy and chilling days is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. They make the contrary narrative looks poor, fragile, naked. That's a PITY it is unreachable to people in my country - I'm BRAZILIAN (Portuguese-speaking), just a few people know English. Thanks for everything, Dr. Peterson. Greetings from São Paulo, Brazil.
History will NOT judge these two kindly or fondly .
@James T Cat Cado Then let history judge us patriots and loyalists as the revolution prevails. We care not. We will go to the Lord's kingdom and sip tea with Benedict.
@@KopperNeoman ok, Bro
Esse livro com certeza será traduzido ao português, você não acha?
go ahead waste your money on this foo s book. these two mother faking clowns should address the enslavement and exploitment torture of the most innocent creatures on the planet-animals. murray is a modern day slave master. blacks were not only enslaved-they were raped tortured , children molested and raped , experimented on etc etc.... majority of whites still hate blacks just for being black-i live in canada-i know this for a fact. i cant listen to these two racist any more. talkin shit bout blacks selling blacks.
Such, intelligence, wisdom and eloquence being used to dissect and expose the insanity of modern day leftist ideology. These men are sage's! 👏👍🙂
Fantastic podcast Peter and Douglas, You both touched on some fundamental points of great importance, and I particularly appreciated the original point Douglas made in reminding us that if those who reject our culture and those who founded it, we have the perfect right to reject theirs in return. Wonderful stuff.
Great talk 🙏🏾 The thing is, as an immigrant, I’m so thankful for Western culture. The people who cry racism and blame white people for all their woes don’t speak for me.
I agree. I'm an immigrant too and I find this Western white hatred very disgusting and very stupid.
Because it’s mostly other white people who blame white people.
That’s the beauty of western culture. You have accepted it so now you to are a part of it. It’s not a race or ethnicity thing it’s a principles thing. Unlike many other nations where your bloodline is essential to your progression.
Best of luck in your future endeavors! It's great to have you among us!
Ryan Donovan thank you that’s so kind!
Douglas Murray is hands down one of the foremost thinkers of our generation.
@@utv5490 You just demonstrated that Murray doesn't have much competition
Two of the great minds of our time!❤
This is such a brilliant conversation. Thank you men. I was particularly touched by the thoughts on resentment and it's danger to ourselves and each other. It was also nice to hear someone else saying that there was a limit to the politeness people can show to how they are framed. I've always thought that the people 'defending' minority (probably for their own self aggrandising) would ultimately cause a lot of harm to the people they're 'trying' to help if the majority gets sick of all the self flagellating we're expected to do these days.
This is the first time hearing Douglas Murray and boy oh boy is he impressive. I actually will be recommending this video to some of my friends. We need a lot more of this reality to be exposed to shut down the insanity and stupidity that makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Anti Racist Theory is being practiced in hospitals already. It must be halted. Elizabeth Warren has proposed a bill twice now to put anti racism into healthcare. UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Astounding. My heart hurts for our youth being subjected to all of this. School Boards have been infiltrated...thankful so many parents are fighting back. There is an awful evil trying to takeover US. Praying it's diverted. 🙏✌
He is definitely a brilliant man but he has the typical white British slave master attitude towards the world.His fact are feeble and why is he so worry about a group of people who was being oppressed has manage to educate themselves and is striving for uplifting their self and is not accepting the old slave mentality?? What he seems to want is for the world to continue honoring their white masters rules and should not try to free themselves from their clutches.Great discussions.
If you haven't by now try Lex Friedman's interview with Douglas Murray, I think you'd enjoy it
@@helensmusings Thanks! I will check it out. How ironic--at the exact moment you recommended your video, I was looking up a movie for an acquaintance.
@@WhistlesToAnimals lol good timing, I've just finished listening to it and was thrilled to have come across it. I wish you joy in your discovery 😊
When Some people talk about justice what they really mean is revenge. Profound insight.
Dude Jordan Peterson responded to your comment that's crazy!!! You should make sure you respond to the WhatsApp number he left!!!!!
@@aaronszabo6905 Are you one of those new advanced spambots? 😁
@@Pwwh0711 absolutely not!!! I'm just thrilled dr.peterson responded to your comment!!! Be sure to respond to his what's app number so he can help you find hot young singles in your area!!!!
@@aaronszabo6905 😂
🙆🏽♂️🍿
I'm angry that I Can't Hit This ( like ) Button more than Once. SO INSIGHTFUL.
Brilliant discussion between two contemporary intellectuals. Loved it.
A vital and astonishing conversation. I feel grateful beyond words to both gentlemen for sharing their deep learning and wisdom with us, and for helping us to think about these profoundly important issues.
I agree so much. God bless you
Such a great conversation.
The fact that this man can express these emotions, with that care and story telling, really shows not only his intelligence but how human he is.
I love all your talks. Thank you for your contributions to humanity. Your a great man Jordan.
This was a great episode the last 30 minutes or so was stunningly beautiful and moving.
I make no apology for the following commentary - this is epic! Deep thinking, referenced in facts, engaging , great questions by Jordan ( who often times is fielding questions ) ... Douglas Murray is clear, succinct, straight forward .... this is a most refreshing exchange.
Apologize heathen lol.
I'm starting on the second time thru, back to back. Douglas Murray is a balm to my soul.
I'm an Asian girl who came to the West all out of appreciation of the West culture and history and the reason I'm here is because their values are much aligned to mine compared to the East . I am amazed by all the knowledge they have to teach and extremely proud to say that I want to protect their culture now more than ever as they are being damaged by this generation, by ignorance. Sometimes, I'm so ashamed that our people travel half way of the world to come to your home just to create their little version of their culture, a lot of people I met from my culture who live here and they still act as if they were back home, they didn't conform to the your culture and try to change yours. I always have this saying with me all the time: " When in Rome, do as the Romans do". You are the guests, be respectful to your host's culture, if you want to change something, at least ask for it respectfully. I don't understand those people who is constantly complaining about how they are being outcasted ( yes, discrimination exists but not all the time), the biggest thing that brought people together are not their skintones, it's the value as well, do not mistake between the two. I'm also aware of the fact that sometimes, you have values that might not be compatible with theirs, but hey why not going back to your cultures? I can't live with the values of my culture that's why I come here, you can do the same, and I said this with all honesty, not being sarcastic or anything.
You are able to say "if you don't like it here, leave the country" as you enacted that yourself. If any white national said that to a non-white national it would be considered racist, and probably fairly so. It does imply that the person isn't part of the nation, they are not allowed the same free speech as other citizens, and that they have some other home to go to.
You just hate yourself honey, You didn't even said where are you from , just bend over for your enemies.
@@leonais1 White people aren’t native to America or anywhere else but Europe. Deal with it.
@@Tsukoyomi460 sell out to what? As compared to "what" has she betrayed exactly?
U can stay Natalie but all the other Asian must go back to where ever they came from.
One of the most interesting episodes of anything in a while. The world needs to listen to it, doubt it will though...
Brilliant conversation. I agree with Douglas I’ve said myself it’s not about justice it’s revenge.
This conversation kept me riveted the whole time. Speaking of "gratitude", I feel incredibly greatful for both of these smart, good, articulate, honest and courageous men.
ᴛᵉˣţ𝄍✉𝑾𝒉𝔮ᴛᵗ𝑠𝑨𝑝𝑝 ✚𝟏𝟐𝟎𝟑𝟗𝟑𝟔𝟗5𝟑𝟒✔ ʀᴇɢᴀʀᴅɪɴɢ ʙᴛᴄ/ ᴇᴛʜ ɪɴᴠᴇsᴛᴍᴇɴᴛ ɪᴅᴇᴀs ʟᴇᴛ ʜᴇʀ ᴋɴᴏᴡ ɪ ʀᴇғᴇʀʀᴇᴅ ʏᴏᴜ◦◦ ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ᴡᴀᴛᴄʜɪɴɢ ◦◦ .. .
amen
Amen God bless you
I am currently reading a battered old copy of 'The Ghosts of London' by H V Morton, who was a journalist, a historian and a travel writer. He wrote the eponymous opening chapter to this particular book in 1939, shortly after Great Britain declared war on Germany. He rightly speculated that the impact of these hostilities upon London would be regarded, eventually, as a defining chapter in the history of the Capital. He also makes an observation which I think is pertinent when discussing Douglas's book regarding the dismantling of Western culture: "In times of peace it is permissible for all but a few antiquaries to forget the past and forge ahead cheerfully into the future; but in war-time a nation, calling up its spiritual reserves, draws unconsciously upon the strength of its past, and owes to its ancestors more than it knows, or than may be set down in words." If we allow our history and the culture that it has engendered to be broken up and buried, then what other foundation do we stand on for support when times grow hard?
Very eloquently and genuinely put. There is one issue missing from this particular chat. Ethnically English birthrate is below replacement ... At age 31 ... 50% of womeen are childless (ta feminists,).. Non ethnically English birthrate is double. That means exponential growth. So by 2050 ish ... In England we will be a minority and 'sharia law' will be enforced. The west is doomed. It breaks my heart.
And Nancy Pelosi said "I don't care about statues...i don't even own a pair of my grandmother's earrings" (I paraphrase) Pelosi sanctioned the national archive infiltraitors to remove founding fathers paintings and also to put up trigger warning signs in the Capitol! Trigger warnings for viewing paintings of white men. Pelosi plays a huge part in our destruction. Evil nonhuman political entity whose only care was the win. Zero wisdom. She allowed the Marxist ideologues to bully her so long as the left got their votes. What a crying shame.
@@sci_ent_ificsui_neg9236I agree with you. America 🇺🇸 is not even the same country that it was, now. The future only looks worse.💔
Yes ! My grandpa was a ww1 vet , my dad ww2 z my brother's Vietnam..and gulf war. My children saw 911 horror on TV. 2 enlisted... they cannot get lackadaisical. Now our government is evil from within..
Non, there will only be anarchy.
Murray has given me a new appreciation for the term "tragicomedy." Thank you both, seers of the world.
A brilliant and insightful discussion. I was particularly moved when Douglas Murray discussed what is happening in the world of art. In Australia recently, climate activists vandalised the work of Frederick McCubbin, an Australian artist who painted emotive images of everyday people in the bush. As an art lover I was appalled by this, but also as an Australian who takes great interest in our history. Anyway, I agree, it's not right to turn on our story tellers, philosophers and heroes as though they were simply caricatures, rather than human beings who brought something to our culture.
I so do like Douglas, his passion, his apparent honesty and his intellect and knowledge.
Before I watched this video a month or so ago, I wanted to burn it all down. I was a victim. It only took this one 2 hour conversation between these two men to find what I needed and to let go of all that shit and appreciate and feel amazing for being part of the history of my culture. I have been infinitely more productive since I watched this as I now know that if I want things to be better, its on me to make it so, rather than wanting to just burn it all. So I am on my second time watching this video and got to the bit about gratitude and wanted to let you both know how grateful I am that I found this conversations. Its been a paradigm shift in my life and I haven't been this full of life for years. Thank you.
Two of my favourite western intellectuals here, wonderful and God bless both of them.