Post Office Inquiry: Ex-investigator insists wrongly convicted victim still guilty
Raymond Grant has said he believes that William Quarm, who was wrongly convicted of stealing from a Post Office, is still guilty.
When the former investigator was asked if he thought Mr Quarm continued to be guilty of embezzlement, he said: “In this witness statement today? Yes”.
The counsel then pressed him on the issue and asked if he thought Mr Quarm remains guilty of the crime, despite the verdict being overturned, Mr Grant said: “Yes, I do. I still think Mr Quarm had a role to play in the loss of the money.”
William Quarm was convicted in 2010 of stealing from a Post Office he ran in North Uist, the Outer Hebrides.
#horizon #postoffice #politics
Read more on this story here: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024...
Subscribe to The Telegraph with our special offer: just £1 for 3 months. Start your free trial now:
www.telegraph.co.uk/customer/...
Get the latest headlines: www.telegraph.co.uk/
Telegraph.co.uk and / telegraphtv are websites of The Telegraph, the UK's best-selling quality daily newspaper providing news and analysis on UK and world events, business, sport, lifestyle and culture.
Calling himself a Christain what a load of rubbish total hogwash.
Just an excuse to get out of appearing. Backfired when the sheriffs knocked on his door.
As we’ve seen time and time again: Christian ≠ good. People can do good and bad things regardless of their beliefs.
Look at Paula Vennels she's a Pastor..wtaf.. I always find the dodgy ones are dropping religious vibes
They are all deceivers, and their actions will return to them; this is known as karma.
Another evangelical Christian boasting about his righteousness to anyone who would listen but has a cruel, wicked, black heart. No empathy, no sympathy, no compassion. Despicable human being.
I am impressed by his level of sheer arrogance and utter contempt for these proceedings.
YES, racism . IF all the victims were white and English he would have different reaction. He makes great claims about his charity work and how he is Christian but does not know the story of the Good Samaritan.
This guy should be investigated for perjury harping on about his charity work that's a guilt complex ,dog
@@raphaelandrews3617 I believe Mr Grant is Scottish, not English. I don't know whether that would change your beliefs about what he would or wouldn't have done.
He represents a poor example of Scotland.
I love that: 'now carol services and dog-walking are out of the way.' Brilliant!
He's brilliant isn't he?
Best line ever.
I love the quick=witted snark from Mr Beer KC
He's trying to highlight his so-called Christianity
That is god level shade
I can't help but feel that Mr Grant is the real victim in all of this. Having to write a brief statement about his part in sending innocent people to prison, ruining reputations and lives, must've put quite a damper on his Xmas. Oh, the humanity...
So true. I see it too. On another note I’d hate to be in his Christian care home when some teabags go missing
Indeed. Yet his weeping pleas about his upstanding religious morality do concern me. It appears that God doesn't particularly like him
😂 Lol
@@carlosgregorius9419 😆
Hilarious 😂!!
This man should be sued and thrown in jail
Yes
Should be, but won't be. They'll all get away with it and it'll be tied up as "something we must learn from in the future".
I dont know I think some of these lower down managers might end up in jail@@josephkerrigan733
Indeed, and that will cost us dearly. @@josephkerrigan733
So, Is the word "sorry" the new way to avoid a criminal conviction and jail time?.I doubt if the post master said Sorry. For something they didn't even do, if this wld habe meant no jail time or no fines and no lives being ruined?.
Such arrogance should be rewarded with a brief spell of jail time, for contempt of court.
i disagree it needs to be a long stay.
"I haven't had any time to review the case. I've never seen the evidential documents. I can't remember what happened 16 years ago. But I still want to make it a matter of public record that I think the Postmaster is guilty anyway."
Yes, this!
Well summed up, shocking!
No shame or empathy for the real victims of injustice
But he apologised at the end and seemed sincere.
@@NigelCopy Seemed.
I think that this man should not be involved in providing any "help" to any vulnerable people. He appears to have little or no empathy for the common man. And no understanding in the role he played in this sorry state of affairs.
I'd like to say I think Mr. Grant had a role in the theft of funds from the sub-postmasters and the subsequent cover up.
He’s only sorry he’s been exposed and then forcibly held to account in this hearing.
agreed
Like the way the Kings Counsel said, "Perhaps we can now expand on that (limited statement) now that the dog walking and carol singing is over". Priceless wit. 👏
He has zero law enforcement training, but he has the ego to presume he is able to deduce someone has committed an offence. People who are guilty are adjudicated innocent all the time and vice versa. It does not change the tapestry of reality. This man acted as judge jury and executioner and now is responsible for the safety and care of people with nothing... This doesnt sit well with me.
What an arrogant weasel... Only complying with the court and inquiry because he was forced to
the arrogance of this man is astonishing!
What a total despicable person who went on to say that the PO had let them down and the postmaster/mistress but was happy to say earlier that he still believes the postmaster he investigated was still guilty, even over he was later cleared.
Yet another humble bragging Christian who seems to think simply labeling as religious will distract from his fundamental lack of ethics and morality. A lack that isn't just historical but manifests to this day in his misdirection of guilt up the chain and lack of respect for the court and his obligations to it.
Does Mr. Grant think he himself should be in prison after what he has done? I do!!!
This guy was negligent in his investigation. He failed in his responsibility to investigate ALL aspects of how the the shortages had occurred. As we now know there were glitches in the Horizon computer systems with the effect that ALL SPMs were wrongly convicted of taking money when in fact it was the glitches that “took” the money. All his evidence is tainted by his and the PO’s failure to investigate what in fact the PO and Fujitsu have known for many many years.
of course he didnt do all aspects of the investigations if he had he would have lost his bonus payout
The recurring theme, is one of a very fractured organisation where just enough was the amount of effort expended by just about everyone who has been interviewed thus far
He needs to be charged and put in jail!
Gross negligence and incompetence by the investigators
Self-serving personal statement. No remorse for his flawed actions to convict people.
This man wants to be excused because he as to much on and he is a christian but did he give the postmasters the same dignity,NO.Shame on him.
Time for arrests of those involved in the cover up/deception.
They know no shame.
Poor poor man. Image he was awestruck when Sheriff's officers turned up at hid door
We know from testimony how the sub-post office masters felt when POL knocked on their door to find "evidence"
I find it outrageous that a man found not guilty can still be said to be guilty. If Grant is still employed he should be sacked. Defamation of character claim. Make him bankrupt? Maybe he may change his mind.
Imagine that - being forced to answer questions about your conduct that sent people to prison.
This bloke is a complete wrong un......
but he loves jesus
Classic... The conflicted statements: * I am convinced the person who is acquitted is still guilty * Yet I was lied to and did not have all the information And then the effort to paint himself as a 'victim' via fake emotions: * I want to take this time to offer my sympathies to all involved * This isn't easy for me and my family either The arrogance and sociopath tendencies are rife with this sorry excuse for a human being...
Truly noxious.
he seems to be part of a bigger group of sorry excuses So far from what ive watched there has only been one witness i can believe and thats the whistle blower. the rest can rot in jail
Check his bank 😬
This guy starts off excusing himself from clearly his higher responsibilities by professing his dedication to his present involvement with his work with homeless people. Not forgetting to tell the enquiry of it's religious connections and his personal dedication to these people and the personal dignity they deserve. Listening to some of his answers to questions put to him by Mr Beer raises some question of hypocrisy as well as an air of victimhood
Yeah and the dog ate his homework etc etc
His "giving his residents the dignity and respect they deserve" put the shivers up me. I hope someone does a swift inspection of his "Christian" care home.
The whole experience was so upsetting for Mr Grant, he’s the real victim apparently, never mind the people who lost their freedom and good name.
I wonder how many more "devout" Christians are involved in this scandal
Paula Vennels ?
Doing a Pontius Pilate in my opinion! Washing his hands over his own deeds, but still sending an innocent person to be crucified, and still saying that the postmaster was guilty. If I had any inclination to be religious, this guy would change my mind in an instant!
First question, was the money actually lost? If the money didn't exist which seems to be mostly the case then no money has been lost. Two, how on earth could anyone know if there was a shortfall if the system was duplicating and miscounting transactions left, right, and center. Third and final question, why would a subpostmaster steal large amounts of money, keep going to work, delcaring their accounts every Wednesday, knowing that they're accountable for putting it back? None of this makes sense and should have been a huge red flag which it was but sadly was covered up.
I think the same. The investigators just thought they were guilt regardless of any firm evidence.
A complex system and bugs are guaranteed, but I’ve seen more due diligence from non-profit managers. It’s very difficult to picture a case where this just happened by accident, dynamics, whatever.
The post office could never prove theft in any of the cases they brought to court they got there guilty pleas by threats of jail
All good points. I find it hard to understand how an investigation leading to a prosecution could be made without the money being missing or traceable. Given how many cases were brought without such evidence one would have imagined the question had to be asked. This just shows what a culture of thuggery existed in the post office. As an aside, that so many of these so called Christians were happy to cover all this up and even now are keen to exonerate themselves says much about the emptiness of their religious beliefs.
Yes, that is to me the most extraordinary point, in no case was a stash of cash, a lump of gold, a big bank account, or a new Mercedes found to have mysteriously appeared. To any intelligent investigator that would cast doubt on these cases, but having seen the standard of the investigators and the management, intelligence is not a common attribute of these people - no wonder the Post Office has been in steep decline for years.
People will only learn if there are significant consequences and that is jail.
Jail doesn't seem to be a happening thing any time soon.
My role is to ensure that they get the level of respect and dignity they deserve 😂 based on his past track record and his thoughts that they are still guilty this guy doesn’t have a clue what is respect and dignity.
Ive got one word to describe Mr Grant - Hypocrite
What an incredibly self serving person, says that he thinks that the convictions were correct and that the post master stole from the post office to try and justify his actions at the time , and then ends by saying that the post office 'mis led' the employees and most importantly 'obviously' himself as a way of shifting the blame now ,,,,, just an awful person..
Hmm, what have these people got in common ? Religion ! Same as the former Chief Exec.
"I work with homeless people. They aren't homeless when I first meet them, but I make sure they become homeless."
He betrays his arrogant and cruel character, which no doubt he applied with full force to his persecution of innocent postmasters. No genuine remorse, no empathy, no personal responsibility, just deflection and self pity. And trying to excuse his dismissive attitude to the enquiry by claiming his valuable time was taken up with Christian endeavours just proves the old maxim, there is nothing more cruel than Christian love. What an horrible excuse for a human being.
This man should be in jail!!!
Yes
The arrogant gall of that man
What an arrogant indiviual. How dare he say he was reluctant to answer questions for the inquiry. So typical of Post Office management.
This contemptible individual has the arrogance to not only challenge the authority of this inquiry having to be to be forced into attending after almost not bothering to provide a witness staement, but still has the sheer temerity of claiming a man rightly aquitted of any wrongdoing by a court of law is still guilty. These people need to be convicted of contempt.
Why did he keep saying it was a Christian organisation? How is that in any way significant? A man died before he could clear his name, and Mr Grant quite simply couldn't be arsed to do the work necessary.
Put Grant in jail....lies upon lies upon lies
He seems like the kind of investigator who knows that if the computer says money is missing, a crime has been committed, and he shouldn’t be distracted by irrelevances such as thousands of post masters complaining that the system was full of bugs. When on Earth are these people going to realise that this whole thing occurred, not because they were misled by this ‘post office’ entity, or Horizon, but because they were too effing arrogant. He is not a victim.
Just "Wow". I'm struggling to find the words for the "poor me" and arrogance on display here. I so hope that his carol services went well.
Another “ not me gov” defence 😊
Dude seems to be saying that it's only a short statement because he was forced to make a statement. In other words, they should be lucky that he even did that.
This, right here, is the embodiment of the arrogance and malevolence that's been allowed to fester within the post office. This man is a disgrace on every possible level.
This man is vile.
The calibre of the investigators says a lot …
He showing disdain at the idea he has to turn up with threat of legal repercussions if he didn't but that's all he did in his job. Put pressure on people to explain their actions under threat of legal repercussions.
Shocking
I reckon the Salvation Army donations are going to decrease significantly. I would not give a penny which might go into this man's pocket. What a complete excusefor z human being.
If he really is running a homeless shelter then I doubt he's doing it out of tthe goodness of his heart, just doesn't seem that sort of chap. So, what is his true motivation?
Vulnerable sphincters.
@@acm1137lmao. And I bet that’s actually it.
@@acm1137😂. So wrong…😂
pulling out the I'M a good Christian card. FFS this guy is pure evil
He was about to say “the ultimate responsibility belongs with the Post Office” and then gauged it wouldn’t be smart.
How long before "I was just following orders"? We heard that in the 1940s.
HE is everything about The Post Office's Attitude & Exactly WHY This Enquiry is Necessary
All these people involved in this scandal should be jailed
A very good example of the mind set of The PO senior staff. Appalling attitude.
Q. Have the Post Office put up a HONEST person yet because I have not seen one? All Bonus Payments to these criminals at the Post Office and any bonus from 2008 onwards should be recovered. Why, it was obtained by Fraud.
Vennells, Jenkins and now Grant all very fine upstanding members of their local communities and Churches but their time will come ...
Contempt, complete contempt towards him and he towards the enquirey.
yet at the end apologises and cries as if hes the victim
Crocodile tears
People like that always do.
Poor man. He's so upset because people questioned him. Imagine what would happen if he were thrown prison for nothing.
He made a statement at the end saying the outcome of the enquiry, the inquiry hasn't reached its outcome yet.
Basically he cares NOT about his wrongdoings. A Christian that goes to church to pray for himself, not others!
In answer to the question about an "otherwise dishonest" deceased, this witness defamed ( but legally that has no status). Nevertheless, he should NEVER have defamed the former postmaster .......it only makes witness look and sound vindictive and arrogant.
He's scared they're going to make him pay back the bonuses he got for falsely accusing people. He willfully ignored any evidence that the software wasn't working.
From all the investigations I've watched, so far, it seems all the staff were very poorly trained, didn't understand the law, shirked their responsibilities, were, and still are, prepared to tow the party line, had very low morals, and no respect for honesty and truth. Also no conscience regarding the pain and suffering they were personally causing. I would guess that the Post Office probably terminated employment contracts for anyone who had higher intellect and morality, or who even suggested that something was blatantly wrong. All those I've watched, still cannot see, understand, or wish to admit that their working practices were either naive, or corrupt.
An expert investigator giving evidence and he cannot remember such important details says a lot. Not really a Christian in my mind. If he is innocent then he now knows how the postmasters feel. I do think however he is not, just as he thinks the postmasters are not, Then he makes a personal statement saying he is sorry. What is he sorry for if he still thinks the postmasters are guilty?
A very enlightening and revealing picture of the latent aggressive behaviour of this individual. Any investigator worth his salt would and should have known that there were issues with the system. Blaming everyone else and had to be compelled to attend. Says it all really
Very very very guilty so guilty very super guilty no good no good
This guy should be awarded an OBE…. He’s such a valued member of society. Ok, I’m just practicing my sarcasm.
This is all about trying to win sympathy for himself, not about the victims. I laughed out loud at 3:26 - loved the sarcasm of the KC.
So, he feels enough time has passed for him to be unclear of exactly what transpired 16 years ago but today, he remains convinced of this person's guilt. Like all the investigators in this callous miscarriage of Justice, none of them are prepared to admit their own guilt! Every one of them needs to receive the same punishment that was handed out or caused to the victims. Bankruptcy, Loss of business, Loss of home, Marriage breakdown, Loss of freedom (Prison). As a 'so called' Christian!!!! This man should know, 'What he sows he can expect to reap'.
First person directly involved I’ve heard say sorry! But still not willing to take responsibility. Shame!!
He wants sympathy???
He, like the Scottish Tosser yesterday, is a heartless pos!!
How is this guy practising law.working as a unqualified legal expert.with no legal qualifications never been to university.
Same with magistrate judges, no law qualifications or experience required.
Could he have been sued for libel if Mr Quarm was still alive?
Heard the personal statement. Oh dear, how sad, never mind !
Were this investigators trained from the Gestapo prosecution Codebook? The fact that their houses, bedroom drawers , 5:47 cars and bank accounts were forcibly searched before any charges were laid makes one wonder.
where ever he is working they want to get rid of him
Seems clear that PO management are responsible and criminal charges necessary or it’s further undermining the law.
He us humbly sorry yet he still thinks the postmaster was guiity? He would need evidence to claim that.
What a .....C U next Tuesday !!!
What a shame for him. What about the disruption to the wrongly convicted and accused postmasters. Playing the sympathy card: Christian organisation at Christmas.
What a horrible person
Arrogant sod
3:23 Good on ya KC Beer. As for Grant`s "apology" at 5:18 all I can say is far too little, far too late.
And i thought that in new Zealand we were corrupt,but this is another level all together,so no wonder the world is in going to the pack. This guy is unbelievable.
This guy is just full of excuses, no wonder so many were found guilty with people like this in charge, he's just trying to cover his back, to late to come out with this now.
"Let's see whether we can improve on it today now that carol services and dog walking is out of the way"😂😂😂😂
Straight to jail for this one