Post Office executive warned of wrongful conviction six years before innocent man cleared | ITV News
A senior Post Office executive was told by an independent investigator that an innocent sub-postmaster had been wrongly imprisoned without “any evidence”, six years before his conviction was finally quashed.
A secret recording obtained by ITV News has revealed Angela Van Den Bogerd, former Head of Partnerships at the Post Office, was told in January 2015 that the organisation had “materially misled” the courts in prosecuting Carl Page - a sub-postmaster from Staffordshire.
She was a key figure in the Post Office scandal and gave evidence to Parliament in February 2015 alongside then-Chief Executive Paula Vennells.
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Why are we wasting time having a inquiry. It should be a criminal court case against all of them.
No, the drama has to be played out first.
No chance of conviction. .these people always get away with it
If I had went to prison because of vennels and van der borg and they don't get jailed then I would seeking retrepution sevene retrebution
Because we have a government that protects criminals. Just look at the Grenfell inquiry. All the cladding criminals got away.
Thing is, without the Inquiry we wouldn't know the extent of what "all of them" means. The thoroughness of the Inquiry, and the mass of evidence it's gathered together, means that more potential culprits have been identified than would otherwise have been the case.
Clearly the wrong people went to prison.
Yes and now it's time for the right ones to go to jail!
Over 20 prole from this scandal need to go to jail and their pensions confiscate , passports and seize their assets under the proceeds of crime ! They thought they could play the courts as well !
"Can you please leave my property, paid for by post office bonuses." While innocent people went to jail.
👏
And they lost their homes, health, families, reputations and some their lives.
Agreed. It’s disgusting.
come on man, they did say please
And at least one woman ended up living in a van. How evil these people are.
Unbelievable stuff here. Evil. They clearly need to be immediately arrested. What are we waiting for.
We need all the evidence first. The inquiry needs to be run first otherwise any trial would interfere with it. Even if the police don't act, Mr Bates will prosecute them.
Private eye and Computer weekly have been on this for 14 years
Evil people 😢
I think these evil people will string it out for as long as they can to avoid paying out..I reallly want justice for the victims but I m just not sure they will get it...
Get then into the inquiry. Then you prosecute. They they discover they can't be consistent.
Send them to jail
She won't see any jail time, they need the cell for a smelly homeless person.
That sounds harsh just give them a warning not to do it again 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
Iife in prison.
0@@deadpanbarry5442
The establishment don't go to jail
These post office execs need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The lives they have ruined is not forgivable.
of which will never happen,we all know that not one will ever be prosecuted, politicians protect each other,
'not forgivable'. Exactly that my friend. Exactly that.
They will be prosecuted to the fullest for a rich white woman. So not at all then on all three counts.
Nothing ever happens to these dreadfull people!
@@paulgregory2601 i agree,all over the world they are above the law
Angela Van Den Bogerd is guilty and needs to do time. Why the wait? Her pension should help the victims... Now!
Angela Random Bogus
Lock up
No chance of jail
Now she had memory issue care brand post office
Just like cranky ,I can't recall I've got a terrible memory it's sometime back now etc. etc.
She should be charged. I'm no solicitor, but at the very at least, I think Perverting the Course of Justice should be put against her.
When will the joke Regulator, the Solicitors Regulation Authority get its ar$e in gear over this lot ?
Perjury. Lying under oath to a Parliamentary committee. Corporate Manslaughter. Conspiracy to commit fraud. SPMs were forced to repay monies that never existed!
she must have all her assists striped and the millions she was paid in bonus's and wages re turned to the public purse and she need sanctioned ... before she goes to jail for a very long time .. 150 court cases she watched and sat there happy know fine well she was doing wrong .. police need to act now and so does the uk government.
Yep. Her and all the others. Why should any of them be allowed to profit from the proceeds of crime?
Yes
COME ON governments ACT NOW. BEFORE YOU GET DRAGED BY THE PEOPLE AS THEY ARE NOW SEETHING.
She should but she won’t.
It really is appalling that the British government acted this way. Shame shame shame.
Post Office, Ltd is a private corporation. It isn't like the USPS.
@@danielboone8435 Its only shareholder is the UK government, but they decided to keep PO at arms length when they should have had clear oversight at all times.
If these people walk away from this their is no justice in d uk 😢
@mariabillings4487 yes. They were the 100% owner and were told repeatedly of what was happening. And ignored it perhaps because most of the victims were South Asian.
Forgetting the MPs who were working on this case until now? the Post Office is a private company, thats why the government had a committee meeting with them, and why theyre being prosecuted for lying to government.
tragic how Angela Van Den Bogerd treated her dog with more respect and dignity than all those subpostmasters combined. Honestly how does she sleep at night
Mad Bad Bogeyman probably sleeps in the day.
If there was justice she would be attending the inquiry in an orange jumpsuit and chains. 😮
This is not the uniform sported in British prisons: mixed fibre sweat shirt and black trousers at the time I was working as a prison tutor.
Money talks
will not happen,not one will ever see a court
im sure her property can be sold to help the victims .
@@annepoitrineau5650 Wrong, no black anything after an inmate copied a prison officers uniform and walked out. the same reason for pictures of yourself being banned.
Absolutely despicable, why on Earth did Cameron give Vennells an Honour?
Maybe he gave her something else as well 😂😂
@@noelfleming3567i understand he's into the porcine type, no difference really, all troughers.
Thought it was Teresa May?
Because they’re all in it together. The patrician classes have always exploited us, the plebeians. The history has been the same since The Secession of the Plebs, way back during the Roman republic, through the Peasant’s Revolt, all the way to the trade Union movement. They will exploit anybody they can.
Because they are all the same and none of them have any shame. Let's remember that Cameron was found guilty of lobbying MPs for money - now he is a Lord. They are all as bad as each other
In none of these trials was the Post Office able to identify money that went into possession of the victims. The judges should have insisted that the PO find and provide this evidence. The judges and other lawyers also let down the sub-postmasters and mistresses.
That’s baffled me too. If they had stolen tens of thousands, where is it? Were hundreds of Sub Postmasters in league together to hide their ill gotten gains offshore in tax havens? Of course not, the duff software was creating the shortfalls all along and PO knew it.
Yes, every case should have had an independent forensic accountant go through the records and work out what had happened.
Yes this was an unforgivable failing of the courts. They should have been able to attribute some of the sub postmasters finances to being money they had "stolen", but couldn't, yet they were still found guilty. Shocking!
This is the woman (according to the drama) who made the wife of a post-master who had taken his own life by walking in front of a bus sign a non-disclosure agreement before the Post Office would pay her any compensation.
Paula V should be on trial for murder, or at least manslaughter.
they have big salary, big bonusses and now guess what ,, nothing will happen with these people because they have money. are not poor persons. When you have money you will not go to jail..
Absolutely spot on...they all come under the cloak of deniability, there maybe of few sacrificial scapegoats, however the real guilty will be let off ,offering pathetic apologies and playing the ' pass the buck ' game
@@briancooper4232 Spot on.
The penalties for these people should be to the satisfaction of the victims. That should be the only thing that keeps these people out of prison. There are so many more victims of corporate abuse out there….! An example should be made in this instance if only for that reason …. The only mitigation is that these people “did not know what they were doing” Jesus of Nazareth.
They have d money and all d means to drag this out for yrs hoping d general public forget
so they need to be relieved of their money....
The Post Office prosecuted the Postmasters, now it's time for them to prosecute these executives!
This is absolutely shocking. They knew years ago but hid the information as innocent people went to jail and tried to commit suicide. It’s horrific that these rich cretins took their big bonuses whilst other live fell apart. So inhumane and deceitful 😢
some of them actually did end their lives.
We will see how d law works now 😂
When you see them at the enquiry the arrogance is astounding.
their behavior CANNOT be allowed to go unpunished , it is despicable beyond words!!
police should be ordered to arrest her & have her charged with many counts of perjury, perverting course of justice, misconduct etc & should be made to lose her house, pension & all assets! THEN JAILED for 50 years!
She did genocide on her own employees.
Police do as they are told bunch of shirt lifters 😮😮😮😮😮😮
@@cliffordbuttle4529 thats how police bosses get their knighthoods!!
Wistfully thinking alas
Quite an impressive home Ms Van Den Bogerd lives in.
Yes, but strangely no letter box...😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
Yep, she obviously enjoyed her bonuses as she hide evidence from the courts and destroyed innocent lives. How do these cretins live with themselves? They are little more than common thieves.
at the moment...
Her cell will have a letter box for food....@@Zoro007
Junk mail 😂😂
The British legal system is VERY BADLY broken from the very top to the very bottom. Virtually no compensation for the Post Office sub-postmasters and £100 million in payments for the people in the legal system involved in the pathetic "investigation".
Taxpayers money
Rich lawyers and poor victims.
Globally, lawyers will always get the lion's share. They are predisposed to not do anything gratis.
Nearing half as many Legal entities as diminishing Teachers in the UK, what are we learning from this case is Institution UK is riddled but not ridded of crud at every level.. Systemic unfortunatly the Good ones get drowned out.. Britain should have a National Peoples Party ...the day after UK Election 2024 for 14yrs of misrepresentation of its Subjects. A search for Public money costs more of the same - "Spaffed" as bj put it.
Correct.your statement is far more accurate than the folk who think vennels etc will be jailed
Its odd to me that with this evidence they are not in jail as yet!
Never trust a public official who says anything with absolute certainty.
Unless she's held accountable under the law, this is all utterly pointless.
OH they know its on its way, Alan Bates has clearly declared that for any weird corrupt reason that the police dont bring charges, his alliance of subpostmasters will be fully engaged in civil actions against all involved. .
Never was about punishing these people but more about enriching the legal profession
I don't know how any of the post office executives can sleep at night with that much blood on their hands.
These people don't even recognise ordinary people u are only there to serve
What a vile person! Could we please conclude the enquiry asap and let the Police and the Courts take over as would be and has been the case with so many rank and file citizens. These corrupt, greedy, stubborn, selfish and entitled 'bosses' acted knowingly in a criminal way, so let them face the music of Justice good and proper, not a pretence...
None of the miscarriages of justice can be forgotten, and those responsible must be held to account and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law
It will take yrs I hope to see these vile people jailed and stripped of all bonuses but I fear d way d world is going 😢😢
Shocking, the PO management must be prosecuted.
That crook in her huge house while sending innocent people to prison. It's sickening.
Thoroughly stupid and thoroughly evil is a dangerous combination.
Shocking………these people at the post office should now be prosecuted.! 😮
Honestly there are people like this up and down the country and they work for large organisations in HR and internal recruitment. They are power hungry and mean spirited. Power goes to their heads and they hold people’s lives and careers in their hands. Many times there is corruption.
Off to jail ...... oh wait this is the uk nothing will happen.
‘We will wait for results of the inquiry’ ‘The country must learn lessons and move on’
These people in d PO commented crimes they have to held to account
British Gov an absolute disgrace. These people should be already in jail. Shamefull.
Every day I become more disgusted by the Post Office management how do these people sleep at night!?
bonuses?
Greed and ruthless social climbing. There is nothing worse. Van Den Bogerd is bad enough but a vicar acting this way is perhaps the most dispicable.
the vicar s going straight to HELL!!
I agree and I think they wanted to make her a bishop, that to me was the worst kick in the teeth for those seeking justice. I’m a Christian and I honestly cannot believe she is still practising.
@@denisemarionjames1487 Oh she’s still practicing however it’s more than likely with her solicitor prior to her appearance at the enquiry .
Why is this only an inquiry that can simply make recommendations and suggestions? Why is it not a criminal investigation with the powers to arrest and imprison?
Money and all down to d taxpayer 😢😢
The inquiry is the inquiry. And it's not up to the inquiry to prosecute. That's up to the police and the CPS who are not running the inquiry. For now, it's not clear what the attitude of the police and the CPS. They may be very close to pressing charges. Or not. it's only been relatively recently that indications of criminal behaviour as opposed to a terrible cock up have emerged. Let's hope prosecutions will follow fairly soon.
@@lairdinho What's the betting the CPS will say: "In light of the inquiry, and the associated news coverage, coupled with the TV drama covering the subject, it is felt the PO personnel will not be able to get a fair trial and it is therefore not in the public interest to pursue this matter further".
@@bobdylan7120 Very low, I'd say. There will be prosecutors keen to make their name getting stuck into this. Contrary to the conspiracy theories about elite cover ups, the reality is that there's a cover up at the post office and then some government ministers desperately trying to distance themselves. If there's half decent evidence of criminal offences by post office executives, they'll be prosecuted. Now, I think they likely have acted criminally, but proving that in a legal context may not be straight forward, which is what people typically over look. Just because it feels like they did it, doesn't mean you can prove it.
Disgusting behaviour! Generations of lives ruined from this.
As a complete amateur psychologist it appears to me that those at the top of post office lack empathy which, from my understanding is a classic sign of those who are very high on the psychopathy scale. I would have thought that women would have more compassion, it appears not so.
Not women who reach that sort of position. I remember as a child, when women leaders were unheard of, reading a letter to the paper saying if national leaders were women there would be no more wars. Even then I knew that was untrue, and a while after that Mrs Thatcher was a leader in the Falklands war and Golda Meir in the Yom Kippur war. Psychologically, such women are similar to men.
@@dukenukem5768 Yes, I've read that although female psychopaths are a little more difficult to diagnose there are as many as there are males that are high on the psychopathy scale. Funny you mention Margaret Thatcher, she is one that I had in mind.
Vanden bogard came across as vile in the drama
She is
Look at her salary and house... That's why she was lying... She and others should be given a lengthy prison term.
I am SO SORRY to the innocent victims, Carl Page ... and Rubbina Shaheen. SHAME SHAME SHAME on Angela Van Den Bogerd (former Head of Partnerships at the Post Office). I look forward to all the victims (except those already dead) seeing Angela Van Den Bogerd spend time IN JAIL, be fined, be ordered to PAY large sums of money, and continue to experience the censure and disapproval by her neighbors, family, friends, and country.
Again and again proved. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, particularly the convictions secured meant bonus money to all those involved. It's entirely disgraceful.
When does criminal prosecution begin? When will reparations and redress go to the victims and their families?
lol!
Looks like a nice house, eh? These people will never pay, they are the establishment.
She will have to explain her actions at the enquiry, along with Paula Vennells, so we can all await that with interest.It's a pity this enquiry has lasted 3 years now, but then this country likes drawing these things out with expensive lawyers.Lots of £££££££££ for the lawyers.
Itv drip feeding the evidence everyday! Fantastic journalism!
How can these people sleep at night knowing what they did to people’s lives
So many lives were ruined because these women couldn't admit they were wrong.
Typicial females.
They need to arrest them! Seriously they are so corrupt! They should be arrested immediately
"Can you leave my property " hopefully not for long
Van De Bogerd has a very nice house for letting innocent people rot in jail after having everything stripped from them......
Corporate manslaughter. Fines equivalent to all of their bonuses plus interest. Jail time.
There obviously came a point when these liars knew that it was them or the postmasters and decided without exception that it was going to be the postmasters. Not one honest person among senior PO staff. I don't expect that any of them will suffer more than a slap on the wrist and a shorter time at the trough than anticipated but they will all have their generous pensions for services not rendered.
They both need to be in jail right now.
There’s more than 2 who need to go to jail.
Remember folks - it was shortly after this that POL sacked Second Sight and covered up their conclusions. Whenever you think it can't get any worse...
All this being uncovered , why no one in nick
More than likely someone got greedy and didn't get their way and let slip
For the same reason Boris and Moan and the rest of them got away with suspending parliament, Partygate, PPE scandal etc. The law only applies to us plebs. They know we will grumble but ultimately accept it.
Its a club, we're not in it.
Sick beyond words.
The serious fraud office should be involved as this is costing £ billion plus a £100 pounds wasted on expensive lawyers.
Seriously...hundreds of convictions??????? Hard to see how government is not culpable in this matter. You'd think they would have asked serious questions. Numpties the lot of them.
Numpties is a very polite word, considering these people. My mind is swirling with a whirlpool of sewer-like words, but wouldn't be published!!! 🤢🤮
Should be given 6 years behind bars in recompense.
How are the Post Office Senior Executive not being prosecuted in a court of law for fraud, extortion and perjury!
"he's gone to a lot of effort for little gain" these proles really are insufferable
These people need to be in a criminal court.... as a matter of urgency
The thing that worries me is this: After the enquiry, will it be possible to find a jury that is not prejudiced against Vennells and all her conspiritors.
Well it would be nice to think they will all plead guilty.. But I think they will defend their guilty selves until the bitter end... So yes it will be difficult to find that jury... 😒
Disgrace,poor innocent people
these people need to go to jail
There are at least three women that should be investigated and charged with crimes.
Glad Ron Warmington has leaked these recordings, not sure why he waited so long though.
These disgusting types perjure themselves without penalty get paid bonuses and achieve zero for the post office. Meanwhile the workers get accused of theft?
"I've personally been involved in each of those 150 cases"
Prison for these two 🧙♀️.
The size of her house!
Any one else's blood boiling ???
Arrest, JAIL, Court, found GUILTY, Sentenced to LIFE, Stripped of assets, PRISON
If there was any real justice that would happen. But it won't.
@@dorothyblair6741 Im sure someone will be made scapegoat,the rest walk away as usual
I am watching the daily feed from the enquiry and seriously, at every turn it gets worse and worse. Each day - its truly staggering. The arrognace displayed by those senior staff giving evidence from the Post office is unbelievable- I'd encourage people to watch as you will be really shocked. In fact they are so arrogant and contemptous of the enquiry even now that they are clearly of the belief they are untouchable (we may yet see they are - the establishment looks after its own always) . Currently the PO is delaying disclosure of documents even now, despite clear instructions from the chair and all of this coverage.
These people letting wrongful convictions happen need to spend an equal amount of prison time times 5
How can that many postmasters be criminals.
Another one for prison!
“And for what?” - to protect the reputation of the Post Office at ALL costs.
Jail sentences, loss of friends, loss of property, living in cars, suicide attempts. My God these poor people have been through the most c terrible traumas. And parents have passed away before their childrens' convictions had been overturned. Lifelong heartache for so many poor souls.
Why are we still using this same IT company to do anything?
And the police are doing nothing. We live in a two tier society. If you’re wealthy and connected - the rules do not apply. They only apply to the little people. Makes me sick.
We need to get American Lawyers involved who will go for the jugular and get millions for each postmaster. The UK Judiciary and Lawyers are too involved/corrupt.
All d lawyers and barristers are d same click as these top executives they all scurry around d same trough
Just the same in America, my friend!!@@noelfleming3567
I’m amazed the police have not stepped in yet, these people responsible including her should be behind bars.
Shameless
Send all the people who knew about the injustice to jail. They all allowed the law yo be perverted for thier own financial gain. Absolutely disgusting, but im not surprised, this country has been turned to garbage by 15 years of Tories robbing the country and working class
This whole thing becomes more sickening with every day that goes by, and every new misdeed that is revealed.
All the swear words i know!
Was it a computer systems error, or was the money actually CREAMED OFF into someone's bank account?
@peterkilvert2712 According to the "IEEE's Computer Society" "Computer" magazine from about 10 years ago, It was a built-in computer error that allowed money to be creamed off through a backdoor.
It went into a PO suspension account then into a trading profit and loss account
The more I hear these revelations my feeling of rage for criminal proceedings against PO management for malicious prosecutions and perjury. There's no way they can not do some serious jail time, be stripped of bonuses etc. And what kind of employer would really want them in their business now.
I'm interested to know how these recordings have come to light now. Why were they not available at the time they were made? It seems like there's a flood of information coming out of the post office these days and all of it damning as far as the management are concerned. If only the poor post masters had known of these recordings, their lives would be so different. Such cruel disregard by management.
its time for lawsuits against individuals..
Alan Bates said this week that if the State doesn't act then Vennells etc al will face lawsuits from their victims.
Still beyond belief it took a tv programme to bring this to the public eye, what the hell were the people who were supposed to be looking into these things actually doing?
When Paula Vennels arrives at the pearly gates they are guaranteed to be locked!
I am utterly disgusted at the lies these highly paid executives have told, at the cost of innocent peoples liberty and lives. THEY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED, AND IMPRISONED!!!
These two women needs charges brought against them .
Amazing how these Post Office executives lied so easily and straight-laced in public on multiple occasions. If they can lie so easily, makes one wonder if that's the case with all other departments.
Jailtime and revocation of all bonuses.
👍👏👏
Prison for the post office management ..it’s that simple..f disgraceful.