Easy to Extreme: We Take The Ineos Grenadier Back To Moab For More Punishment!
To find out more about Magna and what they’re doing for INEOS with the Grenadier and other global automotive brands, click on the link: www.magna.com
Watch the ENTIRE five-part Ineos Grenadier video series RIGHT NOW:
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In episode 5 of our Ineos Grenadier series, Tommy, Roman and Kase take the Grenadier back to Moab, Utah to challenge some more extreme obstacles.
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#ineos #grenadier #ineosgrenadier
You forgot that it is engineered in Austria! I live here in Austria, only about 40 miles from Magna and it was a pleasure to see the first prototypes of the Grenadier driving around here and see how they evolve. I drive a G wagon but if I would buy a new car today, I would take the Grenadier because it is like the G wagon was about 25 years ago - a solid vehicle without useless bling bling.
Exactly , I think it’s the W463 G wagon underpinning’s replacement which Magna had evolved for Mercedes . They decided the pop stars & footballers didn’t care about off reading so went with conventional front independent suspension . Like you j had a G wagon and I did replace it with the grenadier . I’m so glad I did , the bmw diesel is a peach . My only moan is on a cosmetic side , the modern bmw gear never . Why they didn’t use an old style bmw lever is beyond me. Other than that it’s a fair better built truck than my 2018 G wagon .
What does a G-Wagen cost in Austria?
@@nyc8452 depends on the model you buy. It starts around 170.000,-- Euro (185.000,-- US$).
Here in the US, we can’t buy anything like the stripped back GWagen professional config. We only have options for pimped out configs for $140k and up, THEN we have to spend another $40-70k to strip out all the garbage we didn’t want in the first place and turn it back into what we wanted all along. Aaaaaand it will still not have a solid front axle. Mercedes saw they could make a ton of money selling purple GWagens with massive rims and posh leather to rappers - and they were right. In the meantime, the G Wagen lost its soul. This isn’t Magna Steyr’s fault - the platform is solid. It’s just Mercedes following the money.
Same Magna plant also builds the Supra right?
The $80K pays for the beefiest suspension, drivetrain, and Magna design features…..not for the plastic dash.
Is anyone making dashboards that aren’t plastic?
But that logic gives no value to the parts it replaces. For example if you were building a vehicle from scratch, you either pick independent suspension or solid axle right? You don’t ADD the cost of solid axle to the price on top of buying independent suspension. With the grenadier everyone makes that same excuse, “it’s beefier” ok so if an independent suspension costs $3,000 and a solid one costs $5,000… that would add $2,000 to the cost of the vehicle NOT $30,000 😅. I was ready and had a grenadier being built for me but I backed out with the $80,000 price tag. On a Lexus GX for example, the price of the electric seats, the price of the analog gauge cluster, the mark levinson stereo, the existing independent suspension, the 3rd row of seats etc, imagine taking all of that out and getting a refund and buying solid axels and skid plate with the cost of ALL those parts. Why does it cost more? The lack of things should be credited to the vehicle and somehow that was lost. You take all the stuff off of a 4Runner, what is the parts value? Why does this cost $30,000 more than a 4Runner? It doesn’t make any sense.
It's Magna, not Magma.
@@WildernessGuyBC Yeah you’re right !…will fix the typo
@@alexsystems2001 All I am saying is that the the quality of the parts, and thus the price per part, will likely increase the overall cost of the vehicle …On the other hand, Toyota has extraordinary better ability to scale efficiencies and arguably put more content into a vehicle than Ineos can.
I would say this vehicle is great and amazingly capable. The only thing is that it is about $20-$25k too expensive for what you're getting based on the creature comforts. Knock down the price and it is an incredible purchase, but without those creature comforts, I could never justify buying it.
Man Case had really come a long way! He has become a damn good reviewer/journalist. Way to go Case!
the more I see your videos on the Ineos the more I want one over the Toyota Land Cruiser, Ford Bronco Jeep Wrangler and Land Rover Defender
Same...
As an owner of one, I agree, you do.
Well you are a little biased 😂 Guess I will be when ours comes in as well @@alexwbakker
@@lloydswartz7354 I am the biggest fan of the LX470, and really like the new GX and LC, but, honestly feel like the grenadier captures the spirit better. It’s definitely lacking polish and requires some mods, but it’s so fun.
@@alexwbakker Totally agree. But I also I am someone looking at the durability of the drivetrain, and have dealt with IFS hell my entire life until the Power Wagon. And not carrying a trailer load of spare front end everything is sure nice. Modifying that new Lexus...I mean how much sawzall for all that plastic? I hate plastic stuff on the exterior.
One thing I love about my bronco is the lockers are absolutely effortless
Unfortunately, so are the tie rods. ‘22 Wildtrak owner. 😩
@@andyorr1597 I got the broncbuster bushing and tie rod braces for my 23 Badsquatch. I haven’t had an issue yet and I bash around pretty hard. The tie rod issue is definitely a weak point in the design, but I suppose it’s supposed to be. The tie rod is supposed to break so that the steering rack won’t. I feel your pain tho.
@@Papershields001 nice move on the upgrade! I do miss that Trail Turn Assist feature. Had lots of fun with the Bronco.
Sounds like they actually might be just the light won't turn off until you turn. And if the tie rods are breaking as easy as it sounds then they should be tougher and so should the steering rack.
@@ConSeann3ry considering the new broncos are only on their 3rd year of production models they are a remarkably evolved product. Yes the steering rack and tie rods can be improved upon but my experience with it has been excellent, nothing but routine maintenance for 20k miles and I beat the hell out of it.
This is a great review guys, just to give people a sense of capability. I think most people are (begrudgingly) willing to give it credit as an adventure/overland truck, but the off-road crowd are really whiny about the lack of “extreme” specs (37’s with 14” of clearance, anyone?). This is a good review to show how the Grenny just takes it all in stride without the drama. My first off-road experience was pre-production; at one point, I caught myself with one hand off the wheel and the other at 6 in lazy man’s position. I had to check myself and wake up - but that kind of shows how it turns hard work into daily business. It’s not really trying to be a beast - it’s just tough-as-nails, “get the job done” in a reasonable way and comfort. That’s a testament to the extraordinary overbuild (congrats Magna) and the quality of construction (bravo production team in Hambach). It also shows when you get the basics right, you don’t have to resort to theatrics on suspension, wheel specs, horsepower, etc. It just moves gracefully along in a friendly, competent and unassuming way. As we say in Wisconsin, “opes, sorry dere guy, lemme just schootch right past ya.” Toot toot.
Most are moving towards 35s asap. The drivetrain will handle 37s when the time comes, unlike a jeep or bronco or any ifs rig
I look forward to a 1-2 yr review on how livable & reliable this thing is.
Imagine this with Portals...
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣the way Tommy keeps jamming the mic in Romans face! 🫣
i can appreciate that you're paying for absolute mechanical capability. the BMW engine, off-road suspension and triple lockers are not cheap.
When you “lock” the center diff lock, a less active / reduced ECS capability is in play. I would’ve tried it without center the diff lock and without “off-road mode” but still low range, to test the traction control, and then the use of lockers for the second test. Keep up the good work guys
When the Tacoma is fixed, see if it really is and try this trail 😅
The Tacoma should walk up that obstacle with just atrac. This is fins and things, the wall optional obstacle on the southern half. I’d definitely like to see it tho so TFL, get on it 😉
this video is just 2 days old how is a 3 weeks old comment possible?
*Everything you need, Nothing you do not.* Happy Easter
Nissan actually said this in its original Xterra commercials in 2000.
@@jasonperry7970 stole it from roman. your point? i had an xterra. great vehicle.
You’re not getting the point- it’s an overlander designed for reliable long distance touring- it’s not a rock crawler.
Drove a 1984 Toyota Landcruiser troop carrier in Australia. The manual steering box was adjustable for road vs. off-road. Worked great. A modern version of this should be developed using modern electric steering.
A phone mount right in front of the driver would be really nice... see your Map while driving (like OnX) which also tends to display your speed. That would be perfect spot for it
you guys should test... g wagon, defender and the ineos.
Of course it's fantastic off road. They build some of the world's best 4x4's. Let's not forget that Magna has always built a lot of top marque European automobiles. A thoroughly impressive 3.7 million vehicles for 10 OEMs, divided into 30 different models, have so far come off the production line at Magna Steyr's Graz plant. Currently the Graz plant is also manufacturing the legendary Mercedes-Benz G-Class, Jaguar models I-PACE and E-PACE, the BMW 5 Series, the BMW Z4 and the Toyota GR Supra. They have built cars since 1906! My 1988 VW Westfalia 4x4 camper, with triple lockers, and a Gelande low gear, was built by them.
Lockers should be standard on every four wheel drive vehicle
Impressive, that gnarly hill at at the start looked so easy... Very refined power delivery.
I love the honesty of your videos ….. you call a spade a spade
THANK YOU for doing something that at least starts to approach real wheeling. Would love to see this car in some real Rock gardens back in Colorado.
MORE OF THESE VIDEOS please? I could watch you guys drive this thing allllll day. I want one so bad, but on a teachers salary, $70K+ won't allow it. Hmmm.... wonder if I can sell an organ... 🤔
I've been really impressed with the low range operation in mine. The switch from high to low is tricky though. Put it in park and shove the lever all the way. Put it in gear while holding the lever to avoid grinding gears. Its the only sure fire way to get it in first try.
Love the color. Interesting vehicle. Keep the videos coming.
For the diff locks you could try and hold the button for like 3-5 seconds then let go and after that quickly press it. Not sure if thats the way to do it or not but its worth a try. If that doesnt work then you could try to do it the other way around by pressing it quickly and then holding it for 3-5 seconds and see if that works easier.
your comment about on-road steering... my experience with mine is that you need to resist overcorrection; it isn't imprecise.
Been watching the Grenadier program from day one, being a die hard Defender (old school one) owner I see this more the true contender for the Defender replacement then JLR one, jusy see that as a beefed up Range Rover SUV, glad your impressed with it, must say, I am to.
Its one of the most reliable and well put together vehicles ever made. Thats not only becoming extremely rare its also worth every penny! No Wrangler or Bronco even come close in that regard. Not to mention americas bad manufacturing quality... The Grenadier is what the G Wagon used to be and im glad they didnt try to save money just because every other manufacture does. All in all its a very fair prais for those who will use it for what its designed for.
Liking it more
Awesome New product & Vid TY!
I like how at the 4 minute mark he took away all momentum to engage his little doohickie and then commented on the wheel spin. lol.
Looks right at home there!
We had one in the shop today, you can tell it’s not mass produced, they don’t pay a lot of attention to details. It has a factory snorkel, but no diff breathers? WTH? Is this part of another package ?
I was a skeptic when it first came out, and I still hate the warning cluster in front of the steering wheel. But videos like this really do an amazing job of impressing what the Grenadier can do. The clincher though is Jeep’s ridiculous pricing on their Wranglers now. I specced out a Rubicon 4door the way I would order it, and it is the same money as a Grenadier. Question to the team - are you going to put a mild lift kit on it with upsize tires?
I don’t off-road, but if I needed an off-roader, this is it
You should take this on a proper hard overlanding trip into Pritchett Canyon, bring camping gear, fridge, etc and see how it performs, maybe even fit it with a rooftop tent. Also would like to see it tackle the wall at Poughkeepsie Gulch this spring/summer.
Happy Saturday
Morning
Gawd, I love *EVERYTHING* about this vehicle! Including the name, *Grenadier..* Such bad arse..
My husband and I canceled our reservation, but I still wish we didn't lol
Why did you cancel? I’m considering cancelling my order too…..For Me the price is way more than makes sense and looking more seriously at the GX550
@@CJ-rk5eg It was a number of reasons, like the fact we were relocating to a less rugged part of the country, and deciding the price became unreasonable for an unproven company. Also having a family now we can not trailblaze as we use to lol. We went to their set up test drive and I really liked! Tbh we just want to see how it works out over 2 years, or so. We already decided on the GX 550 Overtrail and will be getting ours during first deliveries lol. Toyota/Lexus is proven lol
@@lunamaria1048 Sounds like we are in similar situations which make sense.
@@CJ-rk5egthey are both too expensive
@@CJ-rk5eg I have seen the GX 550 at Overland Expo and an auto expo, so very happy with what I have seen! I have owned two 4Runners over the past 11 years, so I know I'll love it!
Now make a 2 door short wheelbase D-90'esque.
2 doors don't sell.
I really like this ineos.. just hope they get the lockers and drivetrain to be more user friendly or quicker to engage.
This vehicle is a beast . If it had a 3 inch suspension lift and the ability to disconnect front sway bar to let that front solid axle articulate to its capability it would be almost perfect
About the 20th video to talk about the outside styling, the interior and the drive train. As well as how bad it seems to be going in and out of modes. The English design with a German engine, Italian axles assembled in France. I think about 20 more videos covering these things should sum it all up.
I love watching TFL they tried all off road vehicle you can imagine , maybe next time would be a 6x6, my take with Grenadier is the shift lever its somewhat out of touch
If I have lockers and look at that first obstacle, I use the lockers right off the bat. Been to Moab a few times, have a lifted rubicon on 35's.
Made it look easy. Looks ready to go toe-to-toe with any stock off-roaders. If the brand survives they may sort out the niggles in a couple of iterations, including the price.
First, if you stop and go every time you have a step with open diffs you won’t make it with any vehicle with open diffs, momentum is your friend. Second, when I test it last year they have a specific protocol to get everything in “off-road mode” it started with putting it in off-road mode, followed by low range and then locking it (if you need to, which during the testing we didn’t needed to) also they made it to be driven in manual mode not automatic when in off-road. Third, take it to an actual challenging trail with an experienced driver, truly test it.
I really like the Ineos, but it performed exactly like my 20 year old TJ did on the wall. My JL walked up it without lockers.
Needs tires. But jeeps just do not have the space for overlanding.
@@lloydswartz7354gladiators and 4 doors sure do. I get by fine with 2 doors tho.
The lockers in my Colorado ZR2 were instant no issues ever.
Bro the lockers in the Grenadier are also instant off. The vehicles just makes a second test to make sure they are really 100% off before signaling it, so you don't damage the car. But they are off as soon as you press the button
loving the moab content!!
So why did you sell it? To get the Cybertruck? I'm sure many would have loved to see a head to head comparison of the two.
The biggest things about the Grenadier vs the Wrangler is the full time 4WD in the Grenadier vs part time 4WD in the Wrangler. The payload on the grenadier is something like 1800lbs, but a Wrangler Rubicon is only like 1100lbs. Towing on the Grenadier is also close to 8000lbs, but the wrangler Rubicon is 3500lbs. So overall the Grenadier is a much more capable vehicle for carrying a load and towing, it’s also bigger and boxier so more interior room and storage space. I think Jeep has better modern features like blind spot monitors, better infotainment, ability to remove the top, etc.
Comparing Grenadier to anything else than G Wagon (which it is except for a better drivetrain) makes no sense.
So what size are the tires on this rig? Was waiting in the video for you to get back to answering your own question and never heard the answer 😂 it seems pretty capable without having to be monstrous
How did Magna build this well and the Fisker such a mess?
This is definitely a cool vehicle. Nothing I'd be interested in as it's such a pure off-roader, i dont off road enough or in much tough terrain to justify owning something like this. I like that they kept it relatively simple, definitely on the simple end in the spectrum of modern vehicles. However, im not super optimistic about its long term reliability with its BMW engine and European parts and assembly, none of the countries mentioned have any sort of claim to a reputation of durability and reliability, and these are going to get beat on pretty hard, so itll be interesting how theyve fared 10 or 20+ years down the line. Great video, as always, guys.
Coming from someone who lives in a country with a terrible reputation for overpriced badly built unreliable vehicles.
i think ineos should do some software update for the cons you find or changer parts on newer models they build
A small 2-3 inch lift and some slightly bigger tires (33-34 inch) would make this an even more amazing vehicle.
Has TFLoffroad explained the distinction between an Overlander and an Off-roader. Americans view vehicles in the Off-road mindset while the purpose and engineering put the Grenadier into the category of an Overlander.
Can this be modified like a big turbo supra 🤔
Are you guys planning to do an Ike with the Grenadier?
Affordable G wagon
Can’t help but make a comparison here. I have a ‘95 80 series Land Cruiser with a straight 6 (albeit not turbo…yet) center, front and rear locker (lockers are Eaton with individual switches so front can be locked independently from rear) also lockers are nearly instantaneous lock and unlock with a small occasional roll to unlock at times. Straight axels, sliders, low profile roof rack and purposeful bull bar front bumper for about 11-12k on stock height suspension and 33’s. Essentially a match in functionality to the Ineos at about 68k less and probably the same ride quality. Obviously not the same power performance but a lot of that can be mitigated with the leftover 68k.
you can't compare a 1995 80 series Land Cruiser at all, the safety standards now are 3 fold of what 1995 was, that is why you can't buy a new 70 series Land Cruiser available in other parts of the world and not in North America, they don't meet our safety standards even though they are over engineered, so you compare you lose, the new Land Cruiser is not going to be any cheaper than the Ineos Grenadier,and you have to admit it is plenty capable for a new first year vehicle and you'll never buy a good condition 95 LC like yours for $12k in Canada here the rusty ones sell for more like 18k or higher, people think they are gold , they are good not gold
True enough on most accounts, but my comparison is essentially highlighting the similarities I find in the two platforms, safety requirements and age aside. In their time, these land cruisers were nearly 50k, an absurd thought to many then I expect.
Wondering if they have same problem jeeps do with cracked windshield
Yes - Jeep, Bronco and Grenadier all have the same issue b/c the windscreen is flat and upright for forward visibility and upright/high driving position. I still have to get Exoshield on mine - essential
Besides the price I really like the vehicle! But all vehicles aren’t the same, read owners manual to see how to use the 4WD 😊
You should appreciate the fact that one get a GWagon on the cheap.
If they were going for very utilitarian they need to figure out a way to get the price down.
Did its job with ease. It would have made it up without the lockers if you didn't pull the pin when it gained traction. If Ineos survives for another 3-5 years then a 2nd Gen. (or revised model) will be where the smart money starts to pile in. Nothing beats real-world testing and once they have 3+ years of customer vehicles on the road they will be able to dial this in and iron-out any of the kinks.
Not sure why Ineos didn't show the truck doing obstacles like these during the pre-production marketing phase.
Because they intend it to be an overland adventure vehicle and not a hard core rock crawler to replace the jeep.
Driven in Moab by TOMMY. Excellent driver, great off roader, wonderful content and top notch videography... Thanks guys.
Ineos will do better and better from here. Looking forward to their forthcoming vehicles.
It's the coolest zombie apocalypse bugout truck, but I'm really not in the market for that, right now....
Which trail is this?
The wall is an optional obstacle on Fins and Things
I had a reservation for one for about 2 years and was super excited about all the money going to "no frills" stuff like thick steal, expecting for it to cost about $70k (loaded), but was priced out when the official prices hit. Ended up buying a 2019 Nissan NV3500 and converted it to 4-wheel drive... eventually will get locker when I replace the rear axle. Just too much function out of that setup as compared to what ends up feeling like "a little expensive SUV". I'd brake the bank if Ineos made a less costly, slightly longer wheel-based van blank for people to "bolt on" whatever lifestyle they want... waiting for one of these companies to do it since Nissan discontinued the NV in 2021.
I watched you guys in a couple of videos have trouble with the locking system. Seems like a disaster.
Yeah, they really make it more complicated than it is. It's just a two-press process. They need to read the manual already.
if its full time 4wd how do you unlock the center diff
Rear and front are controlled with the overhead buttons, center lock is the post next to the ZF shift arm - lift the collar and jam it to 4H, 4L, locked or unlocked. A nice mechanical clunk and away you go. Old school, just like the hand brake.
@@ElderStatesman-pi3lc I realize that but it would not be 4wd if you unlocked the transfer case
@@mikehunt-ew3pmMike - it’s important to separate the idea of 4wd from locked center diff. The Grenadier is full time 4wd - meaning power goes to all 4 wheels according to the needs of each wheel. Slipping differentials allow that power supply and the rate of turn to differ for different wheels - imagine turning a corner on dry pavement - the wheels on the inside of the turn radius need to travel shorter distance than those of the outside. The center diff, when it is locked, connects the “push” between the front wheels and back wheels. When the center diff is unlocked, it DOESNT mean you are no longer in 4wd- it just means the front and back are powered differently. Let’s say you are going up on a sandy or icy ledge - where only the rear has traction. You don’t want the front tires spinning, so lock the center diff and you’ll glide up, nice and easy. The front and rear lockers synchronize the front and rear wheels on their respective axles - helpful in a scenario where you have alternating deep ruts or boulders and one wheel would be left hanging. So, center connects front to back, front connects left and right on front axle, rear connects left and right on rear axle - but you’re ALWAYS in 4wd even if all 3 are unlocked.
Good review. You mentioned the on-road steering being “imprecise” again and that it is a compromise for off-road benefit. Have you had the caster angle checked yet? Thousands of Grenadier owners around the world are suffering no such compromise.
Is it really better than off-road than JLU rubicon ? I test drove one while it’s cool, the sacrifice it makes and price premium over JLU rubicon not sure if it’s worth it. The approach angle seems not that good, and it’s very high to climb in and hard to get into yet ground clearance about the same as JLU. The extra space is nice that’s the only big upside plus the engine but not sure reliable. JLU daily better though with faster steering rack and more amenities. If it’s not better off-road it’s hard to get this one while paying more if not just for the space and coolness
No of course not.
Rubicon is a rock crawling toy, which is a completely useless characteristics anywhere in the world outside of a few US states where people rockcrawl for fun. Grenadier is designed as durable utility vehicle for poor road infrastructure conditions, not as a toy.
I have a Trial Master and a Field Master. I love the lack of center speedometer and gauges. I don’t need to know that stuff when I’m off road. I need to know if I lose oil pressure or if my lockers are malfunctioning. Even on the highway, I like the extra visibility without the controls right in front of me. Also, the steering is not an issue on the highway. Most drivers will get used to it after a few miles. I would guess that most drivers would even prefer it over the standard rack n pinion set up. It just feels stout. There is no slop at all. If you put any input on the wheel, it tells you. And the hefty steering wheel has a lot to grip. I love it. I’ve owned Jeeps, Land Cruisers, Gladiators, LX’s and a Bronco Wildtrak. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. If the Grenadier remains reliable, it will be the best of them all. Buy one before the price goes up. Compared to what I’m seeing on a lot of dealer lots, the Grenadier is a bargain at $80K.
The steer8ng not wanting to center can easily be fixed by turbing the worm gear bolt back a little bit. I know this because when I was taking the slop put of the steering in my 03 discovery, I tightened it too much, and it didn't want to center. I backed it off just a little, and it was perfect. No play in the steering, and it still centered. Im sure you could back that bolt out just a bit on the steering gear box, and it would have the same effect.
Ah, another very well-heeled offroad enthusiast such as myself! This thing is no Bentley nor a Maybach but it will cut through the bush like sixes & sevens if you catch my drift old boy!
@@mattalexander4699 and I still have less invested in my off road rigs than 60% of the Jeepers in Moab… the Field Master is my wife’s.
Make a bronco vs ineos comparison
Flashing lights and locker engagement/disengagement are two different things. As far as comparing Grenadier to Wrangler and GX 550 or Defender is kind of dumb. To understand what Grenadier is watch “Dirtbox Overland” review!
These will be great buys in the used market 5 years from now.
Man, what's it going to take to get this thing stuck?!
Please, for the love of G, please turn lockers off and on in N
00:02:08 💀 😂. Tommy
Designed by end user Built by engineers without help from CBA's
The cost is where you can't see it in the engineering .The thickens of the chassis which production cars have braided brake lines. Oh and you didn't spec the heated seats so you didn't get them.Nicw vid
Hopefully these guys are paying you for their TFG channel advertising
Think economy of scale!
Why? Will there be a 0-60 review next? This is widely considered an overland vehicle.
Is this not relevant to Overlanding?
Is this not relevant to Overlanding?
Put a 2" lift on that exact one and I'll take it😎
Does anybody lift GWagons?
Why do you say you do fins n things when you only do a part of the trail. I mean this obstacle is on fins n things that you can do or bypass
Glad you guys are learning how lockers work. Is Roman still convinced they don't matter? Still curious tho how you think $80k is cheaper than say $25k for a 3xl Land Cruiser.
The land cruiser would drag it's ass all over that.
What are we proving here ? An $80k Ineos can do the same thing as a $40k Wrangler or Tacoma?
Or a $4000 Xterra?
Taxes import duty exchange rates etc. mine was cheaper than a Wrangler in France.
Ok lets be incredibly real here. This vehicle can not do what a wrangler can do
It’s expensive because of the limited production of scale and the chosen hardware that’s under the hood and chassis. They chose to spend the money on the hardware that counts and not a bougie interior. If you want the build quality and the bougie you see what that costs in a G-Wagon 4 x 4 Sq. Even a decked out Defender is over $100K
That locking/unlocking process is HORRID.
They're really good at making it a lot more complicated than it is. It's just a two-press process.
Is the land rover defender more powerful than the ford bronco
I was interested, love the look. They can’t walk into the market with that kind of price. They’re not proven. Even though, it becomes an option the way Jeep prices, their vehicles and the quality you’re getting on the interior. Their financial model Hass to factor in low volume for the first 3 to 4 years. There’s no aftermarket for it yet, the aftermarket is going to be based on volume of sales. It comes down to , I don’t care if they can go up on 90° incline, Not even interested until this brand is proven. to walk on the market with that kind of price tag, that’s just bad product management.
It’s pretty low volume - like 25k units / year is their TARGET, with 8-10 targeted to the US (I think ‘24 has 4-5k slotted for US delivery). It’s only bad product management if it’s the wrong price or wrong product for the wrong buyer. They aren’t trying to grab volume share from Jeep or Bronco or Toyota. The price is fine for the product they offer and the buyer they have in mind. Almost all the volume is pre-ordered - ‘24 production is completely sold out. They know they can bank on that for the next few years. The mistake people make when they judge product strategy is assuming they are the target market. Ineos isn’t trying to please everybody.
@@ElderStatesman-pi3lc It's much better to start a bit on the expensive side, than banging the price up 2 or 3 times in the first year !!
For 80k it better get up and down that rock wall
I haven’t heard anyone talk about the galvanized and powder coated or painted frame that has a 12 year warranty . Was that just a myth ? If it does this vehicle is built to last . Galvanizing the frame is a huge plus where any road salt or places by the ocean . All manufactures should galvanize frames if any still have actual frames 😂
Actually the frame ISN’T galvanized - KTL, then powder coated, then waxed. Ineos and Magna think this will hold up longer than galvanized. Most of the body except doors and hood (aluminum for weight) is galvanized. The frame choice will also make welding much easier (and safer from the perspective of zinc oxide poisoning). This is next level toughness and forethought to after market mods.
@@ElderStatesman-pi3lc great to know ! Thanks for the reply
Personally I think the frame alone is worth $10k - it’s genius
It has more Jeep Wrangler in it than Land Rover. Watch the development videos from Ineos and you'll see many Wrangler components where used for the drivetrain during its its initial testing.
It's a GWagon with a BMW drivetrain (a preffered swap for all old Japanese offroaders in Europe - I mean the BMW diesel which the US does not get). Yup, Magna allegedly tested Dana 44 on Grenadier mules. But something good for Rubicon proved to be a joke for this heavy monster. And they settled for axles from some European tractor components supplier, an approximate equivalent of Dana 60. So much for similarities to Wrangler.
@@jedrzejgorski5437 good to know they upgraded the axles. Suspension design is a direct copy of the Wrangler though so expect steering to be very vague.
@@skiptheroad How can the G Wagon producer and designer copy anything from Jeep? Please... Why Wrangler, and not w461, 1st gen w463 or new goverment-only w464, or why not Suzuki Jimny - they all have front rigid axles, don't have rack and pinion steering, and their handling is terrible. You don't need Wrangler as model role.
@@jedrzejgorski5437 if one watches the Grenadier development videos that Ineos produced, one can clearly see that Magna used the actual Jeep Wrangler JL suspension, axles, and wheels on their early prototypes. That is why I suggested the Grenadier is more Wrangler. If Magna had used actual suspension, axles, and wheels from a g-wagon then I would have stated it was more of a g-wagon but they didn't. I'm not making any claims as to quality or which is more durable.
Resale value is going to suck 😂