Egyptian Fractions and the Greedy Algorithm - Numberphile

2024 ж. 15 Мам.
160 519 Рет қаралды

Featuring Sophie Maclean. See brilliant.org/numberphile for Brilliant and 20% off their premium service & 30-day trial (episode sponsor). More links & stuff in full description below ↓↓↓
Sophie Maclean is based at Kings College, London: sophiethemathmo.wordpress.com
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  • See brilliant.org/numberphile for Brilliant and 20% off their premium service & 30-day trial (episode sponsor)

    @numberphile@numberphile5 ай бұрын
    • 1'000'000 == MAX_EGYPTIAN_INT 😂😂😂

      @tomasruzicka9835@tomasruzicka98355 ай бұрын
  • Whoever created that "bent finger" heiroglyph was a different kind of numberphile.

    @swirlingabyss@swirlingabyss5 ай бұрын
    • Yeah, he was definitely counting to 11.

      @michaelrockwell9691@michaelrockwell96915 ай бұрын
    • @@michaelrockwell9691 🤣

      @jamesedwards6173@jamesedwards61734 ай бұрын
    • It was probably a Microsoft help desk employee

      @mobilephil244@mobilephil2443 ай бұрын
  • I think credit should be given to the mathematician who devised the greedy algorithm and proved that it terminates. He was Leonardo of Pisa, better known as Fibonacci.

    @rosiefay7283@rosiefay72835 ай бұрын
    • Fibonacci strikes again. But jokes aside now, could you give more on this? When did he use it?

      @Felipe-sw8wp@Felipe-sw8wp5 ай бұрын
    • @@Felipe-sw8wp Greedy algorithm was developed by Fibonacci, not the Egyptians who did not use it.

      @wesleydeng71@wesleydeng715 ай бұрын
    • Which proves that the ancient Egyptians had time travel. Which is why they could use the greedy algorythm centuries before the birth of Leonardo.

      @KenFullman@KenFullman5 ай бұрын
    • ​@@KenFullmanFalse equivalency. 'Akkadians drew circles, therefore Pi.'

      @bobSeigar@bobSeigar5 ай бұрын
    • @@bobSeigarAkkadians lived in Mess of Potatmia and they drew triangles, which is why we still call the longest side of a triangle the hippopotamus.

      @KenFullman@KenFullman5 ай бұрын
  • Sounds like a promising way to calculate the value of 1 to any number of decimal places!

    @syedmoheelraza4161@syedmoheelraza41615 ай бұрын
    • Not to brag, but I have the value of 1 memorized to over 100 decimal places.

      @vigilantcosmicpenguin8721@vigilantcosmicpenguin87215 ай бұрын
    • ​@@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721I've only memorized the first 60, keep up the grind 💪

      @theblinkingbrownie4654@theblinkingbrownie46543 ай бұрын
  • Poor Sophie ahaha. "It's a finger. A *finger.*"

    @aryst0krat@aryst0krat5 ай бұрын
    • I respectfully disagree

      @lihuangg@lihuangg5 ай бұрын
    • Yeah that's what I thought. I mean, 'finger' wouldn't be my first guess at what that is supposed to represent... lol.

      @bholdr----0@bholdr----05 ай бұрын
    • Sure it is

      @dielaughing73@dielaughing735 ай бұрын
    • Maybe it is supposed to be a bent finger but from head on.

      @brainboy7123@brainboy71235 ай бұрын
    • look up the actual symbols, they actually look like a bent finger.

      @proloycodes@proloycodes5 ай бұрын
  • This makes PERFECT sense when you think about how this would be used in everyday life. If my taxes from a days milling is 11/12 of a bushel (or proper historic unit) I am going to use 1/n sized scoops to measure out my payment. So 11/12 would be 1 - 1/3 of a 1/4 measure, if the smallest measuring tool I had was a 1/4 (unit) bowl.

    @thananightshade@thananightshade5 ай бұрын
    • I was thinking the practicality comes from the fact that this system means you don't have to have multiple copies of all your fractional measurement things (weights, containers) and can instead do whatever you need with just one of each. Instead of having to measure 7/9 by having seven 1/9th weights, I can do it with the single 1/2, 1/4 and 1/18 weights I already have. (And I can just add precision as needed by buying a new weight just one denominator larger than what I already have.)

      @krisrhodes5180@krisrhodes51805 ай бұрын
    • The other practical component is it makes dividing things among people easier. Say you need to divide 5 pizzas among 8 people. 5/8 is 1/2 + 1/8, so each person can get half of a pizza plus an eighth, rather than having to divide the pizza into 40 slices and give everyone 5.

      @thischannelhasnocontent8629@thischannelhasnocontent86295 ай бұрын
  • The greedy algorithm is a mathematician's algorithm rather than a really practical one. It does terminate but it might use more fractions than the minimum that are enough. And its priority of greed over exploiting factors of the starting fraction's denominator sometimes leads it to overlook simple solutions. The simplest fraction where it is not best is 4/17. The greedy algorithm uses four denoms: 5, 29, 1233, 3039345. But three denoms are enough: 5, 5*6, 5*6*17. One where it overlooks a factor in the starting denom: 4/49. The greedy algorithm uses four denoms: 13, 213, 67841, 9204734721. But two denoms are enough: 14, 98 [edit: typo corrected].

    @rosiefay7283@rosiefay72835 ай бұрын
    • Very nice. Any hint on how you got those better fractions? Just one thing, I believe there is a mistake on the last example, because 1/7 is bigger than 4/49 so it can't be that 4/49=1/7+1/98. (I've checked the others, they all work).

      @Felipe-sw8wp@Felipe-sw8wp5 ай бұрын
    • ​@@Felipe-sw8wp I think it should be 14, 98. That is, 4/49 = 1/14 + 1/98.

      @columbus8myhw@columbus8myhw5 ай бұрын
    • Fun fact, the ancient Egyptian thought so too. In fact, deciphering how they got near-minimal representations (and what they considered minimal in the first place) is a whole area of study in and of itself. I remember doing a research paper for a course about this, and some of the sources have very interesting theories.

      @minamagdy4126@minamagdy41265 ай бұрын
    • Nice examples. (But the last one has a typo: 4/49 = 1/14 + 1/98). BTW, Egyptians did not use greedy algorithm. E.g. in Ahmes Papyrus 2/49=1/28+1/196. The greedy algorithm would gave: 1/25+1/1225. Ahmes' answer is much nicer. And it follows immediately from it that 4/49 = 1/14+1/98. So Egyptians were more efficient than the greedy algorithm.

      @papalyosha@papalyosha5 ай бұрын
    • @@papalyosha was wondering why the greedy algorithm wouldn't pick up 1/7, but of course 1/7 is less than 4/49, so should have twigged

      @randomname285@randomname2855 ай бұрын
  • The scribe of the Rhind Papyrus, Ahmes, opened this historic works of 84 various problems by asserting he would study 'the knowledge of all secrets'. I prefer to refer to it as the Ahmes Papyrus in honour of its writer! (Henry Rhind was the 19th century buyer of the papyrus.)

    @KYZ__1@KYZ__15 ай бұрын
    • nice input

      @charlytaylor1748@charlytaylor17485 ай бұрын
  • Sometimes a bent finger is just a bent finger.

    @Rubrickety@Rubrickety5 ай бұрын
  • The Ancient Egyptians felt particularly comfortable with the fraction 2/3. One reason for this that is linked to their desire to express fractions that would be irreducible to us today as the sum of many unit fractions: because 2/3 of any unit fraction 1/n = 1/2n + 1/6n. As a result, even to find 1/3 of a number the Ancient Egyptians would first find 2/3 of it and then halve the result!

    @KYZ__1@KYZ__15 ай бұрын
    • isn't 1/2n+1/6n=8n/12n^2=2/3n?

      @proloycodes@proloycodes5 ай бұрын
    • @@proloycodes Sorry, my bad, I meant to say that 2/3 of 1/n = 1/2n + 1/6n. Well spotted. Corrected it now

      @KYZ__1@KYZ__15 ай бұрын
    • I don't get it: since ⅔=½+⅙, it *isn't* irreducible to unit fractions, right?

      @landsgevaer@landsgevaer5 ай бұрын
    • @@landsgevaer it is irreducible to us because there are no common factors of 2 & 3 (except 1). it is reducible to sums of unit fractions though

      @proloycodes@proloycodes5 ай бұрын
    • @@landsgevaer how do you do the fractions in your reply? Is it a LaTex filter? Natural command?

      @Mnaughten601@Mnaughten6015 ай бұрын
  • This felt like it ended abruptly. Though I guess no discussion about ancient number systems could be complete with a single KZhead video; especially one less than 10 minutes long.

    @sk8rdman@sk8rdman5 ай бұрын
  • So in all of a sudden we came to know the origin of Super Mario's Piranha Plant

    @canalsoundtest@canalsoundtest5 ай бұрын
    • Yes, yes, yes! That is 1000% (see what I did there?) a piranha plant!

      @kray3883@kray38835 ай бұрын
  • Egyptian fractions was one of my research projects for my final semester. Also my favorite project.

    @Mnaughten601@Mnaughten6015 ай бұрын
  • 3:43 The exact moment I got _totally_ lost.

    @RussellBeattie@RussellBeattie5 ай бұрын
    • Maybe en example will help you. For any [positive] proper fraction with numerator different than 1 (denoted as p/q), there are fractions like 1/something, which are less than this, and we are searching for the biggest of them (so for 3/5 it would be 1/2; 1/3 is smaller than 3/5, too, but 1/2 is the biggest fraction with numerator 1 that is less 3/5, so we choose that one). "Greedy algorithm" means that for whatever is left we repeat this process, so after subtracting 1/2 from 3/5, we are left with 1/10. In this example we are done - the egyptian fraction for 3/5 is: 1/2 + 1/10. (Egyptian fraction for any p/q is 1/a+ 1/b + 1/c + … and so on.) I hope that helps somewhat.

      @de_oScar@de_oScar2 ай бұрын
  • thiis is facinating, bc constructing these numbers in the denominator is reminiscent of how every number can be constructed from prime factors, except in this case it's with addition rather than multiplication

    @evilotis01@evilotis015 ай бұрын
  • I learned about Egyptian fractions from David Reimer's book "Count like an Egyptian." Highly recommend.

    @enriquekahn9405@enriquekahn94055 ай бұрын
  • 4:42 You don't substitute, you just rearrange the inequality.

    @MegaKotai@MegaKotai5 ай бұрын
    • Oh thank goodness… I spent minutes trying to figure out what substituted for what until I decided to check the comments. Thanks!

      @Kwprules@Kwprules5 ай бұрын
    • Me, too!! Thank you for clarifying!

      @KatScratchFever123@KatScratchFever1235 ай бұрын
  • I studied this in my history of math course and didn't remember the conclusion, whether or not every rational number was possible. I was thinking about this question this week and this video showed up to answer it! Excellent timing!

    @Mikey_AK_12@Mikey_AK_125 ай бұрын
  • Kinda like the 'very large number represents infinity', in a biblical context '40' tends to mean 'quite a while', or 'a significant amount of time', rather than literally 40 years wandering, 40 days and nights of rain, etc. I find that (and the million=infinity) really interesting and perhaps revealing about the culture/context/etc... any other examples?

    @bholdr----0@bholdr----05 ай бұрын
    • Yes. It's basically the same in Japanese and, I think, Chinese, where their respective word for 10.000 can also mean "an inconceivable shitload of".

      @lonestarr1490@lonestarr14905 ай бұрын
    • In old Russian 10.000 apparently played that part, and the name for 10 000 -- "t'ma", that literally translates as "darkness", is now used to mean "uncountably many (people)" .😊

      @dAvrilthebear@dAvrilthebear5 ай бұрын
    • @@lonestarr1490 Also Greek. "Myriad" literally means 10,000, but traditionally it could also just mean "a great number," which it still means today in English.

      @EebstertheGreat@EebstertheGreat5 ай бұрын
    • That's just a conjecture by non-Christians. The bible contains *many* larger numbers, and some *much larger* numbers, the largest being two hundred million ("twice ten thousand times ten thousand"). One hundred million ("ten thousand times ten thousand") is also written.

      @FLPhotoCatcher@FLPhotoCatcher5 ай бұрын
    • Is there any extra-biblical support that '40' means 'quite a while'?

      @FinnMcRiangabra@FinnMcRiangabra5 ай бұрын
  • This is one of the wierdest pen holding style I've ever seen :DD

    @fugoogle_was_already_taken@fugoogle_was_already_taken5 ай бұрын
    • You ain't seen nothing

      @smurfyday@smurfydayАй бұрын
  • Enjoy Sophie's energy and explanations!

    @NickEllis-nr6ot@NickEllis-nr6ot5 ай бұрын
    • and handwriting!

      @FedeDragon_@FedeDragon_5 ай бұрын
    • And the accent

      @Ric4562@Ric45625 ай бұрын
    • halo effect from looks lol

      @FloppaTheBased@FloppaTheBased5 ай бұрын
  • You can split a unit fraction into two unit fractions by the substitution 1/n -> 1/(n + 1) + 1/(n^2 + n). So for example 1/26 = 1/27 + 1/702.

    @davidgillies620@davidgillies6205 ай бұрын
  • Strange that the symbol for 1/2 looks like the graph of y=x^1/2

    @koopermeier7480@koopermeier74805 ай бұрын
  • Sophie is my absolute favorite ❤

    @queueeeee9000@queueeeee90005 ай бұрын
  • Your handwriting is quite beautiful. Explained really well too! 😊

    @mr.mentat.0x@mr.mentat.0x5 ай бұрын
  • I do wonder what need the ancient Egyptians had for counting a million things. It's clear they were doing some big-numbers arithmetic at that point. They knew they had a thousand of a thing that was also thousand.

    @blue_tetris@blue_tetris5 ай бұрын
    • it's a fair question, but at the same time, they were humans, and there's a very human desire to be like, well, what's bigger than a thousand? the overwhelming majority of us have no need for the numbers generated by tetration, pentation, etc, but we do it anyway because big numbers are kind of awesome

      @evilotis01@evilotis015 ай бұрын
    • The pyramids contain more than a million stones for example. However, an empire like Egypt also needs numbers in that range to handle food distribution and administration in general.

      @Kaepsele337@Kaepsele3375 ай бұрын
    • I mean...The Great Pyramid consists of an estimated 2.3 million blocks...

      @mwffu2b@mwffu2b5 ай бұрын
    • Accounting. The Narmer Macehead records a total plunder of 1,422,000 goats, 400,000 cattle, and 120,000 human captives.

      @robmarney@robmarney5 ай бұрын
    • They needed a way to count the money aliens paid them for building the pyramids

      @ColonDee.@ColonDee.5 ай бұрын
  • That's not a water lily. That is Audrey the man-eating plant from Little Shop of Horrors.

    @randomxnp@randomxnp5 ай бұрын
  • It's pretty similar to writing decimal numbers in binary. .1 = 1/2 .01 = 1/4 etc. So to get 1/3, you need 1/4 + 1/16 + 1/64 + ... and you have .010101...

    @SgtSupaman@SgtSupaman5 ай бұрын
  • I think I say this every time, but Sophie has the neatest writing ive ever seen lol

    @HeHasNoName@HeHasNoName5 ай бұрын
  • Can we pause for a second and be in awe of the fact we're watching a mathematician flawlessly writing hieroglyphs, and in such clear handwriting? ❤

    @Misteribel@Misteribel5 ай бұрын
    • Yes we can ❤

      @Starlight51739@Starlight517395 ай бұрын
  • I remember you from watford girls! Cool to see you on here!

    @hhh-ul2uu@hhh-ul2uu5 ай бұрын
  • I can only imagine ancient Egyptians using 10 10000 10 as a meme joke. :)

    @PhotonBeast@PhotonBeast5 ай бұрын
    • Yeah, like that thing hanging off Orion's Belt. That's not a sword. It's over 9000!!

      @tomholroyd7519@tomholroyd75195 ай бұрын
  • That’s a bent finger alright! It resembles nothing else that I can think of.

    @ask_os_2229@ask_os_22295 ай бұрын
  • Interesting! I wonder if this relates to Eudoxus theory of proprtions.

    @seannee3896@seannee38965 ай бұрын
    • 40 years wandering, etc? 40 usually meant 'quite a while', or, 'a long dang time', rather than exactly 40 of whatever. Cheers

      @bholdr----0@bholdr----05 ай бұрын
  • [me @0:49]: "... Pac-Man exploding out of a hemispherical cake"

    @EconAtheist@EconAtheist9 күн бұрын
  • I'd love to see the papyrus with pi written down.

    @chriscraven9572@chriscraven95725 ай бұрын
  • 2, 3, 7, 43, 1807 ... gets very large very quickly. It's known as Sylvester's sequence (OEIS A000058).

    @jpdemer5@jpdemer55 ай бұрын
  • And what about using continued fractions to obtain the" 1/n"s?

    @emanuelecerri8806@emanuelecerri88065 ай бұрын
  • "Groundbraking. Its called.. A single stroke." (Chefs kiss for us simple-minded folks.)

    @colonialgandalf@colonialgandalf5 ай бұрын
    • The number 1 and a single tally mark -- name a more iconic duo

      @n0tthemessiah@n0tthemessiah5 ай бұрын
  • There are cases where there is more than one way to give an Egyptian fraction. Did they prefer one over another in that case, for example the one coming from the greedy algorithm?

    @ubk42@ubk424 ай бұрын
  • My 4 year old has the same concept for 100. Anything that is a ton of something is simply 100- id assume it’s the same idea for Egyptian 1M

    @dontich@dontich5 ай бұрын
    • It's still somewhat used in today's English. The word 'miriad' has two meanings, one is 10,000, the other one is 'too many to count'.

      @juanausensi499@juanausensi4992 ай бұрын
  • So was egyptian maths and numbers more practical than roman or did they use similar ideas with fractions with just different representation for numbers?

    @anders630@anders6305 ай бұрын
    • My understanding is that the Roman system is a distant descendant of the Egyptian system(s), with various improvements/adaptations made along the way. For example, the subtractive elements of the Roman system make calculation using an abacus or reckoning board faster (in some circumstances). Roman fractions are base 12, which in one way is very awkward, but in another way is very convenient. It's funny that today, we still have that same argument regarding metric versus imperial measurement.

      @glenm99@glenm995 ай бұрын
    • @@glenm99 Yup that is the ONE big advantage of imperial IMO, is that fractions are easier in base 12. I used to work construction and can confirm it DOES make mental math easier. Now when used for larger measurements likes miles........ yeah that is where it gets silly.

      @alanhersch4617@alanhersch46174 ай бұрын
  • Ah, yes... Ancient Egyptian Algebra. I had a nightmare about this once...I think I was in my underwear...

    @jamesroseii@jamesroseii5 ай бұрын
    • I'll never get back to sleep… _snore_

      @filpaul@filpaul5 ай бұрын
  • 8:00 what about 1/2+1/3+1/6=1?

    @s00s77@s00s775 ай бұрын
    • That exactly equals one. The expressions in questions are meant to be minimally less than one

      @minamagdy4126@minamagdy41265 ай бұрын
  • Someone invented Egyptian Fractions to avoid getting on the pyramid crew.

    @BobStein@BobStein5 ай бұрын
  • Nice video, Sophie! I just posted another video on Egyptian fractions.

    @BoppanaMath@BoppanaMath4 ай бұрын
  • 7:43 Would you be able to use this to approximate irrational numbers?

    @WilliametcCook@WilliametcCook5 ай бұрын
    • I think so, but idk how practical that is.

      @danielyuan9862@danielyuan98625 ай бұрын
  • Woah, hold up, what's that in the thumbnail?💀

    @_Rizzics@_Rizzics5 ай бұрын
    • bent finger

      @1.4142@1.41425 ай бұрын
  • When not writing in Egyptian, I use the notation R, both for "reciprocal" and for the Egyptian letter. So R2R3R6R43. Does Tweety Bird know the Sylvester sequence?

    @pierreabbat6157@pierreabbat61575 ай бұрын
    • Modern academic literature uses over-lining, which is nearly the same as how ancient Egyptians did in Hieratic (their preferred non-fancy script that is just as old as Hieroglyphics), so you're not far off.

      @minamagdy4126@minamagdy41265 ай бұрын
  • Sylvester's sequence

    @johnchessant3012@johnchessant30125 ай бұрын
  • Accidentally clicked on this video and i dont regret it

    @Furiac.@Furiac.5 ай бұрын
  • 2:55 my best guess is one word. Efficiency.

    @johnacetable7201@johnacetable72013 ай бұрын
  • when you calculated the egyptian fraction for 1, it got me thinking. you get 1/2, 1/2+1/3=5/6, 5/6+1/7=41/42 If you get to a fraction of the form (a-1)/a, then the next fraction you can add is 1/(a+1). (a-1)/a + 1/(a+1) = [(a-1)(a+1) + a]/a(a+1) = [(a-1)(a+1) + (a+1) - 1]/a(a+1) = [a(a+1) - 1]/a(a+1) so you again get a fraction of the form (a'-1)/a', with a' = a(a+1) so to compute this series, you just need to compute the sequence a[n+1] = a[n](a[n] + 1), a[0] = 2 which grows pretty fast, faster than 2^(2^n), which is pretty damn fast 2, 6, 42, 1806, 3263442,...

    @MooImABunny@MooImABunny5 ай бұрын
  • “that’s a bent finger”

    @nickotrondou7481@nickotrondou74815 ай бұрын
    • I hardly see it

      @lihuangg@lihuangg5 ай бұрын
  • New wave of Numberphile Mathematicians.

    @CheshireTomcat68@CheshireTomcat685 ай бұрын
  • Is it just me, or are mathematicians getting cooler? Doctor Crawford, this amazing person. Even Parker is looking way Cooler than a few years ago. Is there a coolness - time diagram for mathematicians?

    @SanneBerkhuizen@SanneBerkhuizen5 ай бұрын
  • I have a conjecture that the rational number p/q will terminate in at most [2^(n-1)

    @ahmadnicole3744@ahmadnicole37445 ай бұрын
  • …was that, “one over n is the biggest bull sh1tter’s truth”. Love it.

    @mattheendpod2659@mattheendpod26595 ай бұрын
  • "i looked into it! dont really know what that does!" hilarious

    @ErikLeonardWagner@ErikLeonardWagner5 ай бұрын
  • I wondered if ancient Egyptians had a sense of humor, but I googled the hieroglyph for 10k and it looks more like a bent finger than the one in this video :D

    @patu8010@patu80105 ай бұрын
    • we all giggled, admit it

      @proloycodes@proloycodes5 ай бұрын
  • Ahh the teachers of the Greeks. I love the history of mathematics

    @reportedstolen3603@reportedstolen36035 ай бұрын
  • That Thumbnail.😮

    @bornfromstardust1526@bornfromstardust15265 ай бұрын
  • 01:00 - No amount of persuasion will tell me that's a bent finger. In fact I'm worried this vid will be demonitised. 😂😂😂

    @testdasi@testdasi5 ай бұрын
  • Oh, bless your heart darling, that right thar is not what one would call a bent finger...

    @logdroppersavant3683@logdroppersavant36835 ай бұрын
  • Imagine what they'll think in a few thousand years about our scrawling on paper. What are we missing that they'll see?

    @maxeuker2949@maxeuker29495 ай бұрын
  • 1:00 I don't see a bent finger.

    @funkydiscogod@funkydiscogod5 ай бұрын
  • Today: _One Million_ Ancient Egyptians: _Soooo much!_ \o/

    @danyael777@danyael7775 ай бұрын
  • That bent finger though...

    @frankkrar@frankkrar5 ай бұрын
  • This is interesting way to hold a pen. Very uncomfortable even to look at.

    @d4slaimless@d4slaimless5 ай бұрын
  • "You want a million of them? ... Heh!"

    @sammarks9146@sammarks91465 ай бұрын
  • I normally love numberphile. But I did not follow a single thing in this episode after the introduction of the hieroglyphs and fractions. This one was a swing and a miss for me

    @Pieman93@Pieman935 ай бұрын
  • We all know that's not a bent finger... It's a lit candle! 🕯️

    @DaTux91@DaTux915 ай бұрын
  • So, the Egyptians could express numbers in the millions. And Roman numerals only go to Thousands

    @sdr9682@sdr96825 ай бұрын
  • Making fractions with the Greedo algorithm - Han shot first.

    @Qermaq@Qermaq5 ай бұрын
  • Clean presentation

    @gornser@gornser3 ай бұрын
  • for anyone wondering 2, 3, 7, 43.... is a(n+1) = a(n)^2 - a(n) + 1, with a(0) = 2

    @petrospaulos7736@petrospaulos77365 ай бұрын
  • I jumped into this video at 7 am before coffee, on the throne, bad idea. Now I have a headache

    @JwyanzeLibert@JwyanzeLibert4 ай бұрын
  • What am I missing here? Of course there's always a way to write any fraction as a sum of fractions with 1 in the numerator: p/q = 1/q + 1/q + ... + 1/q, and this p times? Is this video rather a statement that it works as well when greedily writing the fraction down? Also why is 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/7 the Egyptian fraction closest to one when we clearly have 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/6 which is closer? Or is the latter not an Egyptian fraction? This video was going a bit too fast... EDIT: Oh, an Egyptian fraction has all different denominators as stated in the video. I suppose this means Egyptian fractions can only be constructed in this greedy manner for fractions less than one, since otherwise one would have lots of 1/1 + 1/1 + ... until getting to the decimal part.

    @jschoete3430@jschoete34305 ай бұрын
    • i don't know the details but I'm pretty sure the Egyptians were not interested on repeating the same fraction more than once for some reason. maybe because 1/7 + 1/7 + 1/7 + 1/7 + 1/7 + 1/7 is way longer than 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/42? or how 20/21 is just 1/2+1/3+1/9+1/126 also I would assume 1/2+1/3+1/7 is the closest to 1 without actually being equal to 1

      @aioia3885@aioia38855 ай бұрын
    • Yes, you are overlooking something: All denominators in egyptian fractions have to be distinct. So 1/q+1/q wouldn't work for their system. As or the other thing: 1/1 is technically a fraction as well, so I suppose the "without being equal to 1" aioia mentioned is needed here.

      @holgerchristiansen4003@holgerchristiansen40035 ай бұрын
    • ​@@aioia3885 oh yes the "closest without equaling" was missing in the video, thanks!

      @jschoete3430@jschoete34305 ай бұрын
    • Ancient Egyptians were perfectly fine concatenating regular and reciprocal numbers in a form of addition, similar to concatenating digits to build up the number's size and (right of the decimal point) precision amount. They also had tables for how to double odd reciprocals to aid with preserving the unique-denominator property for the result of general addition and multiplication.

      @minamagdy4126@minamagdy41265 ай бұрын
  • Ancient Egyptians had very nice symbol for ten. Personally I would use it in the dozenal system instead of X, but alas! - there is already some kind of tradition in this regard. ;-) P.S. Had any ancient civilization, by chance, a symbol for eleven?

    @arekwittbrodt@arekwittbrodt5 ай бұрын
    • Interesting question, I didn't find any that have a single written symbol for 11. Even in those languages that don't use base 10 numbering system generally break the words and symbols down to a "ten and" style. One I found that doesn't is the Huli language, spoken in Papua New Guinea, which uses a base 15 counting system, with unique words for 1-15. No written symbols that I could find, though. Thanks for the rabbit hole, it was fun.

      @markhubbart8903@markhubbart89035 ай бұрын
    • @@markhubbart8903 You're welcome ;-) And thank you for finding the Huli counting system. I didn't know about it despite Wikipedia mentioning it ;-)

      @arekwittbrodt@arekwittbrodt4 ай бұрын
  • Amazing how smart people on the prairies don't use salt. Salt makes the roads sticky to blowing snow. You end up with stick snow drifting. If you use just sand, it breaks up the snow and ice and the wind blows away. The road is dry and other blowing snow just blows across. This is mostly effective on the open prairies rather than in the cities.

    @runtosh@runtosh5 ай бұрын
  • cool🌸

    @m__s_david@m__s_david4 ай бұрын
  • @beepboop204@beepboop2045 ай бұрын
  • The Infectious enthusiasm almost distracted me from how "Brilliant"ly it was presented, really a fascinating performance of ancientt mathematics

    @joseacosta1354@joseacosta13545 ай бұрын
  • according to something I read a while ago there was one fraction that can't be written like this: (2/3)

    @breathless792@breathless7925 ай бұрын
  • It is backwards, but it depends which direction you're writing, because hieroglphyics are read in either direction.

    @tauIrrydah@tauIrrydah2 ай бұрын
  • There is a conjecture that if the denominator is 4, the process will stop after four steps or earlier. So I wonder what happens for other denominators.

    @skyscraperfan@skyscraperfan5 ай бұрын
    • A conjecture you say? I'd say that's completely obvious... Or am I off the rails here? Which denominator do you mean?

      @lonestarr1490@lonestarr14905 ай бұрын
    • @@lonestarr1490 I looked it up. The conjecture is that for n>2 4/n=1/a+1/b+1/c for some integers a,b,c. So it you do no even need the d. It is called "Erdos-Strauss-Conjecture". Of course, if you allow four summands, it would be trivial. Obviously 4/n=1/n+1/n+1/n+1/n. That was my mistake. With only three summands it is not trivial though. For any n you will find a,b,c that make it work, but it has not been proven for every n. If you can prove it, you will become famous in the maths world.

      @skyscraperfan@skyscraperfan5 ай бұрын
    • Ah, not the denominator, but the numerator! Yes, that's another beast completely.

      @lonestarr1490@lonestarr14905 ай бұрын
    • @@lonestarr1490 Haha, I always mix those up, as I know them as dividend and divisor in German. The problem looks so simple, but people have probably spent years on trying to solve it. I wonder if there is a simple solution that nobody has thought of yet.

      @skyscraperfan@skyscraperfan5 ай бұрын
    • ​@@skyscraperfan I also checked trice if I have them the right way around ;) That's usually the gist in number theory: the problems always appear to be trivial and you wonder if there's a clever and short solution nobody thought of thus far. And in fact, there are problems where this was the case. But they're the exception. Usually, number theory problems are freaking hard. That's especially true for every conjecture that comes with the name of Paul Erdös attached ;)

      @lonestarr1490@lonestarr14905 ай бұрын
  • Next let's see the Riemann zeta function in ancient Egyptian.

    @davidc5191@davidc51914 ай бұрын
  • It’s a bent finger, guys.

    @sickcallranger2590@sickcallranger25905 ай бұрын
  • Immagine this guys writing the algorithm to know how to translate those in hieroglyphics... Why so fancy with the number skins lol

    @fraz071097@fraz0710975 ай бұрын
  • Deeefinitely a bent finger and not anything else at all nope not anything else why what were you thinking it was?

    @Pfhorrest@Pfhorrest5 ай бұрын
  • 1:00 ancient Egyptian girls need fun too

    @GamingDreamer@GamingDreamer5 ай бұрын
  • Do we count 0-9 or 1-10 ???????

    @tesha8202@tesha82025 ай бұрын
    • Ancient Egypt did have a concept of nothing, but whether they fully understood it as a quantity of "zero" is unclear, even in later eras where the word was used somewhat more computationally. Counting, therefore, would be 1-10, especially in earlier eras

      @minamagdy4126@minamagdy41265 ай бұрын
  • How did the Egyptians write pi?

    @johnfreking6931@johnfreking69315 ай бұрын
  • My ex called it the "bent finger". :(

    @graduator14@graduator145 ай бұрын
  • So how did they work them out, when they didn't have a more powerful system to do it with? We're supposing that the Egyptian Fractions were all they had.

    @JohnDlugosz@JohnDlugosz5 ай бұрын
  • A000058 in the OEIS.

    @ontheballcity71@ontheballcity715 ай бұрын
  • isnt greedy algorithm just euclidean algorithm but instead of pulling gcd number u pull fraction at each step?

    @maxrs07@maxrs075 ай бұрын
  • It’s *definitely* a bent finger. 😂

    @colincoulthard3021@colincoulthard30215 ай бұрын
  • i just came up with a new "socks in the drawer" theorem - could anyone from numberphile team prove it? It is true that when you buy new pair of socks the probability of finding a matching pair in your disorganized sock drawer decreases.

    @user-bc9zj6py9m@user-bc9zj6py9m5 ай бұрын
    • Depends how many colours of socks you have

      @cam5556@cam55564 ай бұрын
    • If there are only 2 colours, the probability is always 100% after three selections, even if you have a thousand of each colour

      @cam5556@cam55564 ай бұрын
  • In the Torah, the number 40 just means "a whole lot."

    @Sam_on_YouTube@Sam_on_YouTube5 ай бұрын
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