I got a whole bunch of car and gravity science scheduled for today pals!
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Theres actually a mathematical curve for optimizing gravitational paths. Its called a Brachistochrone curve!
OP didn't watch his Vsauce!
there is no such thing as Gravitational Paths. In current physics, the closest thing you can reference would be a geodesic path and isn't applicable to this demo. Sorry about that.
When it comes to hypersonic glide vehicles this is called a boost glide tragectory
@@sleepingwarrior4618 yes there is, you have the high part lower than the beginning
@@sleepingwarrior4618yes there is you have the high part lower than the beginning
Gravity... A heavy subject
One of the worst things I’ve ever read. 7/10, has a little something for everyone
i hate gravity! -Carl Johnson
@@stanleybochenek1862 that's ok. Gravity hates you back.
Great Scott, I think you are on to something!
@@lairdcummings9092 Ahhhh -Carl Johnson
Half through I realized how impressive this is that a video game can accurately simulate real world problems Love this game I got myself 2000+ hours
What game is it?
@@Peter_Cetera beamng drive
same lol, been playing since october 2016 and have 2003 hours
That moment when you realize Car Pal has never been a Boy Scout. One Pinewood Derby race would have told you all of this. XD There's a reason the pinewood derby cars have a 5-ounce weight limit. The heavier the car, the faster it goes.
Yes but I thought the skinnier tires were going to make up for the weight, I need to do more Pinewood races hahaha
@@car_pal Next video idea: wooden cars on bicycle wheels
@@Scorpious187 or cars made of girders, on concrete wheels.
@@car_pal I have a challenge for you if your up for it tomorrow at 5:30 British standard time
@@car_palThere's such a minuscule weight difference there, that I don't think it should've increased its lead as much as it did... I _think,_ albeit far from a scientist I am, that the rolling resistance _(tire:road friction)_ of the tires on the road surface, plus the width of the tires generating more wind resistance, all should have culminated in the bike tire car winning. So either: - I'm correct, and BeamNG just doesn't calculate everything, causing for the results we got... - Or, I'm *incorrect,* where the wind and rolling resistance is NOT enough, and the extra ~250lbs _does indeed_ allow it to generate more speed. Someone get ahold of Matt Parker (Numberphile) and have him crunch the numbers! 😅 *_EDIT:_*_ Oh yea, another way to help in this test would be to weigh the cars. Then, add the difference back into the bike tire car, to remove that as a factor. That would at least help by telling us that either the friction and/or wind resistance _*_is_*_ getting calculated for._
The reason why the anchors didn't fall at the same time is because pendula only oscillate harmonically for small amplitudes. A rigid connecting rod should help, but when the difference in drop angle is that large, you'll always see a difference in the impact time.
Also worth mentioning that BeamNG does have wind simulation so the anchor that goes the fastest will be more slowed down by the wind
bro you could've just said it's because that the chains are wiggling more the higher up they are therefore slowing them down
@@Holdens_australian No, I couldn't, because that's not what's happening.
@@isodoublet yes it is
@@Holdens_australian No, in fact they wiggle less the higher up you go. What you described is not only not the explanation for what's happening, it doesn't even happen _at all._
One thing you should try is seeing what effect changing gravity has on a pendulum. It's really cool.
That's literally just watching a pendulum swing but sped up footage lol
That Gran Turismo start sound is NOSTALGIC af😌😌
POV: I play Gran Turismo Sport on my PS4 and I can barely recognize this start sound lol 😂🙂
Awesome video! But I was looking forward to seeing a comparison between the straight line descent and a full Brachistochrone curve!
This is a great example of potential and kinetic energy! Love the videos!
I think the problem with the hockey pucks is that the car being able to move off the puck creates a partly inelastic collision so the momentum doesn't all transfer.
Computer scientist here, again! It's math time! You've stumbled upon a lovely problem from the calculus of variations, specifically finding the quickest path between two points only using gravity. The solution is called the brachistochrone curve. It shows that there's indeed a quickest path, and that path is unique.
TFW CarPal discovers the brachistochrone 😅
These are very educational, thank you carpal.
This is one of those videos of yours that could go viral. It just has that energy!
Brilliant! Great job, as always!
I can hear the flat earthers now... 'BuT MuH DEnSiTy!!! GrrAvITy iS FaKe!'
4:41 In reality: The weight DISTRIBUTION of the wheels is very important. When you roll down a rod and a tube of similar weight and diameter down an inclined surface, the rod is faster, because the Mass is more in the center and has to be less accelerated to gain the same speed in the surface. But here we have also to take into account the mass of the Cars and the rolling and air resistance.
wouldn't traction be larger as well due to larger tyres? since it would also get more grip onto the pavement itself
@krabstickle this is what I was thinking. More surface area, more grip, and possible stability.
i could watch this kind of videos non-stop forever!
The fastest way from point A to B using gravity as the only way to move something (in a case cars) is called a brachistochrone I think. Adam savage built one with Micheal from Vsauce
I haven't even watched this yet but I know it's gonna be great. Added to the bedtime queue!
Why doesn't anyone take color into account? Red is faster. Sometimes
Technically the dipping slope was at a steeper angle overall until the end. If each dip returned to the same height as the straight slope the result would have been different.
Potential energy is a helluva drug.
Its a good day when Car Pal uploads
This is why old wood coasters use bunny hops. Doesn't feel like it's doing much other than feeling some g's, but you're actually gaining speed.
Carol of the Autobellos😂
Nice demonstration of RPM TORQUE flywheel, relaxing music.
Watched this in physics class, taught more than our teacher did in the whole year
Beautiful gran tourismo sound
Thank you mate! It was soooo relaxing!!
The reason that the wider wheels wound up going faster is because there was more mass at the rim of the wheel. If you think of the wheel as a lever, then you can see why. Force is mass times acceleration. There was more force on the wider wheels. It's a similar thing to having two wheels that are the same mass, but one has more mass at the rim and the other has more mass at the hub. The wheel with more mass at the rim is going to roll down a slope faster than the wheel with more mass at the rim.
How so? When the mass is concentrated in the middle, the wheel would have less inertial resistance or less moment of inertia, which means it is easier to get rolling.
@@anteshell That's probably why the car with skinny wheels went faster at first. I don't think I did a good job explaining it the first time around, so here goes. Take two wheels that are identical in every way except that one has most of its mass at the hub and the other has most of its mass at the rim. If you roll them down a slope, the wheel with most of the mass at the rim will reach the end of the slope first. This is because the wheel with most of its mass at the rim is able to accelerate more. There's a greater force acting on it than on the wheel with most of its mass at the center. You can look at it like the wheel is a lever, but another way to look at it is that the wheel with most of its mass at its rim has more potential energy which means that it will have more kinetic energy. Potential energy due to gravity is dependent on distance from the ground. If we take the ideal versions of these wheels, ones where the mass is all at the hub or all at the rim while keeping them the same in every other way, you can probably see what I'm getting at. The potential energy for the mass in the wheel where it's all at the rim is greater than that of the wheel where the mass is all at the hub by the diameter of the wheel. Potential energy due to gravity is mass times height times acceleration due to gravity. Kinetic energy is mass times velocity squared. Unless we're talking a very short slope, inertia isn't going to affect the outcome much.
@@thedabblingwarlockThis is not correct. The wheel with all its mass at the rim has half its mass below the point where the wheel with all its mass at the hub has it, making their potential energy equal (you can tell, because they both have the same center of mass). This is about rolling resistance and rubber deformation, not potential energy differences.
The fact that you taught me more than of my teachers in high school
awesome video mate! really enjoyed it
Don’t gravitate to your couch too much, or else you become a singularity 😂
Nothing better than watching Car Pal after going for science physics tuition
Wdym, car pal could be your science physics teacher
@@TonyWitThaTommy I mean, yes he is
With the wide and narrow tires, I think it has to do with the pressure the tires are experiencing The higher pressure (narrow tires) are going through higher friction than the ones with lower pressure (wider tires)
Shouldn't be the opposite? Lower pressure means greater surface of contact
@@kybern i'm not sure, that's just my best guess, I'm not a physics major
@@kybernthe pressure is not important, but very narrow tires need more energy to bend in order to have the flat surface that touches the street, as the angle is way bigger that they have to bend around. But at a certain tyre size the surface of friction gets so big, that again wider tyres have more friction. That effect only works on bycicles as they have small tyres. But since this is only a simulator they could still have this effect, because of some inaccuracies. This is nothing I made up and way to complicate to explain this fast. Just google: why are wider bycicle tyres faster.
But since wheels roll the friction experienced by the contact patch does not affect the end result. The friction that has an effect is the friction in the wheel bearing which should be identical. I'd imagine it's down to the thin wheels being less resistant to adjacent forces that warp the camber settings. In this case there would be greater friction in the wheel bearing. Potentially, also the tyres being less resistant to "squishing" therefore flattening the rolling edge into a square which is less willing to rotate. The problem is that we'll need to know how deep BeamNG simulates these elements before we can know which ones are causing the observed effects.
It's the moment of inertia. The tyres had a more even distribution of mass VS the rims, which had more mass distributed around the edge. This means the moment of inertia of the rims is greater, as it takes more potential energy to rotate more mass around the same radius when compared to the tyres. Hope I explained this well enough.
So.. A good turbo and a deep hill to launch!! Lmao Thx's 🤣
I love how these experiments represent real life physics concepts
I found that first one very interesting. Basic geometry states that a straight line is the shortest distance between two points, but it appears to not be the fastest in your example here. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that most geometry only deals with two dimensions, rather than three dimensions where height can be taken into account. I definitely was not expecting it to be this intriguing, considering how insane your videos usually are!!
It's actually a fun physics fact that the fastest descent is not given by a straight line, but by a surprising curve called a "Brachistochrone Curve". Look it up!
@@ChrisJaquezi second this, vsauce made a pretty neat video going over the whole concept!
@@ChrisJaquez I will look up that curve!! I have always found physics and cars intriguing!! This reminds me of what I used to do with my Hot Wheels when I made a track!!
Just out of curiosity, if geometry deals with two dimensions, what exactly is the other dimension if not height? 😂
The red one weigh more that's why it went faster
Those cars on the centrifuge got yeeted into another dimension.
This is just like racing, stepping one the gas early out of a corner gives up a big advantage, the early dip accelerates the car earlier and hence gives it an advantage over the entire course.
Thank you Car Pal for informative vido
Car Pal is a mad genius.
5:28 reel pov of a very normal car trip
Saw this experiment (but with marbles), in the channel "Manual do Mundo", and it's really interesting to see the fastest way possible
Experiment with anchors: potential energy of pendulum: Period = 2 * pi * sqrt(length/gravitational_acceleration). Value of gravitational accel. is 9.80665 m/(s^2)
Quick physics lesson here for the initial tests: the steeper the angle, assuming the vehicle is in control, the greater the acceleration and therefore the greater velocity it will have.
lol the Gran Turismo sound xD
4:40 there is another reason ,the intertia of the wheel (the spinning motion) forces the wheels to spin faster and that intern creates a loop of more speed until the integrity of the tires themselfs colaps and the high speeds rip it apart👍
Car Pal should be my physics teacher
Mind blowing also, I didn't know it's faster than straight road
It is actually really straight forward. You can calculate what should happen with conservation of energy, E = mgh and E=1/2mv^2. Ideally the cars arrive at the end with the same speed but the greater drop in height causes the red one to travel at a higher average speed.
It is about acceleration. If you accelerate fast, then you reach a high speed earlier and thus drive longer a high speed, which results in a higher average speed than constant acceleration.
You may inadvertently have designed an ingenius two-man sled concept, while creating those first two black and yellow ramps. No only do you get reduced surface contact, meaning higher speeds, you also have to seats built into the idea, with the two bumps.
When you raced the BMW-s downhill, I think the blue was slower, because of two reasons: 1. Tyre deformation is a bigger factor at higher speeds. 2.The more massive tyres handle that better and the narrow tyres also have some small sideways oscillating movement, that is not noticeable because it is frequent and the amplitude is small. However this definitely affects speed.
Under gravity the wider tires may be better, but under engine power the wider tires accelerate better, and skinny tires have a higher top speed. It's basically inverted what the gravity test shows.
The top one is far faster. The reason is ALMOST everyone on the rode slows down for any change, up hill, downhill, minor bend in the road. The solution to driving faster is to teach people to drive better.
Rules in gravity are different from the ones given by a traffic light ma'am or sir
3:00 the reason why its slower is the big black tires (or anything) work as shoch absorber.
1:10 "Ive won, but at what cost?"
The lower path is just faster. If train stations would have a long DEEP cruise section in between them, trains would get close to the end station really fast, without motors. Then roll up the ramp up partially to original height. All you need to do it lift the trains a bit up a steep bit for the next bit after some passengers got off.
4:40 the reason white is faster is because there is more traction due to wider tyres, not because of weight. because the car has more traction it is able to grip onto the road better, allowing it to get more speed
Great video
wait, there's a working dyno in beam? and a weigh station? noice!
~ 4:34 wider wheels have drastically lower rolling resistance here as they are multiple times wider and thus have multiple times more area on which to exert the weight of the car on the rubber, leading to less depression OF the rubber and thus there is less movement of the rubber as the tire rolls, meaning less resistance. I'm trying to explain best I can remember.
I think in the real world the narrower tyres will acc faster on the downhill section, but once they hit the flat section the momentum of the heavier tyres will make the other car roll further.
Acceleration due momentum - Nice Sinus Curve
Oh, this takes me back to middle school. In science class, we were doing an experiment where we would roll marbles down different slopes. This being an American middle school, they decided to make it a contest to see who understood the concept the best. Being autistic, I was paired with this other kid who was a total douche who would always bully me. They always would pair me with this kid despite how awful he was to me because we were both special needs. Anyways, he went with the straight slope thinking he was going to win. I decided to use the brachistochrone curve slope because I knew that if it had a steeper slope than a straight slope, it would build speed faster, but also knew that if it was too steep it would lose all that extra momentum by the end. Also, this was before the Vsauce video.
5:27 this camera angle cracked me up
at the start, the red car was technically putting more work in as the suspension was so strained - whereas the white car was just happily gliding along.
Technically, the driver on the wavy road would end up being slower once a speed limit sign is installed
A brachistochrone curve is the optimal curve (the curve created by tracing a point on a circle as it rolls - cycloid).
No cars were wrecked in the making of this video.
FIRST RACE Red finishes firs. "THEY CLEARLY FINISHED AT THE SAME TIME"
At the same point, not at the same time.
@@GrillerRohde Fair enough, guess my brain read it differently the first time XD
It's the problems of the Brachistochrone curve.
Drag, rolling resistance (from tires), they look like they arent modelled
7:20 “Gravity afftects”
thumbs up for the Grant Turismo 1 countdown sfx
@3:37 no the anchors should not hit the cars at the same time. Doesn't have to do anything with the chains. The path should be a Brachistochrone in order for them to arrive at the same time but the path of these anchors is just circular.
More gravity is more grip 😂
As I found out from playing racing games, having a car with high acceleration is far more beneficial on most tracks, than having a car with much higher max speed and horsepower, but also much higher weight. On any course with lots of long stretches of straight track, the higher horsepower/max speed would always win though.
The wider tires won the race because the more surface of the wheel touching the road increases the max speed. It won't matter until you get to high speeds. Otherwise, wider tires are good for turning but that wasn't being tested.
4:53 i think that the wider wheels won because the bicycle ones were almost flat that weigh so the was more resistance
There is no reason why two identical anchors (attached to identical chains or rigid rods, doesn't matter) dropped from two different angles should hit cars placed at the bottom at the same time. When you make one angle 5 degrees and the other 90 degrees, the 90-degree anchor gets insane acceleration at the beginning because the initial movement is "straight" down but STILL hits the car later than the 5-degree anchor (that starts moving in a nearly horizontal direction) - IRL, in simulation, and in theory. A circle is NOT a tautochrone/isochrone curve.
Some nice cars and mods there, do you get them all from the same source, or various ??
I wonder if more friction would change the outcome (rolling resistance). Perhaps at some point the longer distance traveled would make the car slower.
Im quick curious as to way the puck at the bottom was the same as the one at the top and not faster?
3:55 when they forget to add the 'baby on board' sign
Not an expert in this field but, contact patch size influences the slippage of the wheel and the rolling resistance. More weight = larger contact patch, which affects N/mm2. Probably there’s some optimum more weight with larger patch, but where the rolling resistance is low enough while force need to spin (slip) the wheel. If I am correct, the rolling resistance is just a coefficient x normal force (weight of the car/4/area of the contact patch of the tire)
My understanding is that contact patch isn't really all that relevant when it comes to friction (within the reasonable bounds). The advantage of a larger contact patch is canceled out by the disadvantage of the normal force being spread over a larger area. This leads to Amontons second law "the force of friction is independent of the apparent area of contact." Of course this is assuming ideal circumstances. If you think of the friction or the tire with the road as more of a sprocket and track system. Then there is a point where the width of each 'tooth' is so small that any significant force can shear them. Mind you, in still a freshman of mechanical engineering so far from an expert. Edit: also worth noting. Contact patch does definitely effect wear and heat generation. Both of which will effect the friction coefficient of a tyre. Which is why race cars have massive tyres even though smaller tyres would theoretically provide equal friction.
The last one could be influenced as the hp is doubled it might as well have 2x torque which if so it doesn't matter as it will always be 2x faster
I'd love to see the last race with 1/2 gravity.
Everything is possible inside computer simmulation.
This first one is a solved mathematical problem, the shape for the fastest way from point A to point B (Where point A is higher anyway) is called a brachistochrone
The slingshot maneuver.
9/10 Mind Blowing ( 3:34 I Know that Axes physics -1)
should add these ramps to the mod shop
He did it for science, so we don't have to.
The higher the gravity is, the stronger the downforce. Thus, more traction for the tires to take advantage of.
the heavier the object the less speed it loses.
@@Ghorda9same kinetic energy with 1.0g or 2.0g
@@aSASa45454 a train is harder to slow down than a car, similar to how up/down shifting gears work, the more effort that is put into speeding something up the more it will take to slow down.
@@Ghorda9 yes that's mass though
@@aSASa45454 that's momentum
It was obvious that the car which gains more speed in less time will win. Most important motorsport rule: exit speed is more important than entering speed.
Now I wonder what would happen if the 1000hp Porsche was on half of earth's gravity and it raced against the 500hp porsche on normal gravity.
ding fries are done ding freis are done i gotta run i gotta run