"Heysel is never, ever mentioned" | Mark Lawrenson recalls night of the 1985 stadium disaster | OTB
Former Liverpool defender Mark Lawrenson shared his memories of the Heysel Stadium disaster in the 1985 European Cup final between Liverpool and Juventus.
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What a wonderfully honest assessment of the Heysel tragedy. Liverpool fans get very tetchy about that incident. Both the fans and the club have basically swept it under a large red mat, as if it never happened.
I bet they do. Its called guilt and shame
The stuff we never hear - Thatcher time anyone?
That’s the narcissistic victim mentality for you
Respect to Mark L for actually speaking about this.👏🏻
What's the latest bandwagon you're gonna jump on once you're bored of virtual signalling for Ukraine?
@@maratonlegendelenemirei3352 My father was from Ukraine, half my family is from Ukraine. Who do you think you are?
@@maratonlegendelenemirei3352 I guess you meant ‘virtue’… Nesbit!
@@JustifiedAncient don’t call idiots Nesbit . Rab C is actually funny and human. 👍🏼😂
Heysel's never mentioned because then scousers can't play the perpetul victim...
Lovely to hear from a man with guts and integrity. Remember Heysel!
hes a bitter sacked bbc pundit, and liverpool fan.
@@neveryoumind2229 And your point is?
@@lee4171 I recall watching it live on the BBC. It was a strange feeling for Liverpool to go out and play the game. I do think Heysel preceded much of the football mindset of the time during Hillsborough. I imagine people often didn't take into account the periodical culture of the time and how it shaped viewpoints, opinions
@@stuartrussell3490 All fair points.
@@lee4171 One thing I never knew but only found out recently. There weren't more fans inside Hillsborough than were allocated tickets. Only they were in the wrong place. So images captured showed spaces at the sides or in the corner but packed in the middle. Amazing how the media game played out and facts distorted
Extremely rare to hear anyone associated with Liverpool to talk about Heysel
Mentioned and written by every player who played.
@@mariobasler3221 No it isn't.
That because unlike hillsborough, they can't blame heysel tragedy to anyone beside their fans😂😂. And also after heysel, english club were banned from european football for several years so yeah, maybe they know many english club fans will hate liverpool if they knew the fact.
@@roymon2426 doesn't stop them trying. I've heard loads say it was Chelsea and wet ham fans. I've even heard that Michael shields was feeding the homeless and helping baby ducks Cross a busy road when Martin Georgiev violently head butted a paving stone the innocent Mr shields just happened to be holding
@@mariobasler3221 no you just go on about the fans the “police” killed . By letting Liverpool fans jump the fence without tickets 🤨
He's so, so right. Heysel has been memory-holded in the most atrocious way. I remember watching it as a kid. Will never, ever forget the horror.
Totally agree with you i and my dad was there it was for me a totally a game that shouldn’t have been at that place
By who?
That’s why the police were so fearful and got them early!
@@marcturner9494 so you are blaming the venue?
me aswell. i was 14 and watched it unfold to my horror on live tv. The game was delayed and delayed again. Then amazingly it was then played as they piled up the dead. was staying at my old mans in Brighton. Its as clear as today. My memories of that night.
Very strange night . Remember watching as a 10 year old kid . Couldn’t believe they played it . Yes definitely not spoken about enough. FairPlay Mark , well said
I was 11 when it happened,myself and friends where outside playing football before the game started and I remember one of me friends saying the game was delayed because of hooligans and we continue to play football until the European cup final started and when we got in to watch it we found out that a load Italian football supporters had died and we we’re shocked it happened but still watched the game anyway, looking back after all these years that game should of never of been played.
When I saw the events unfold in the recent European Final, without context, my thoughts went back to that day. Strange, twilight zone stuff that the media don't talk about this.
ditto
My dad was in the British Rhine army in Germany, so we all wanted to watch the final on German TV. All we saw were Juventus fans escaping from an attack by Liverpool fans pressed against a collapsing wall in the Heysel Stadium. (I was reminded of this by the Russian hooligans going on the rampage in EURO 2016 ). This went on for a while until German TV decided not to show the game as it was not worthy to be called "entertainment". Instead, they hai a long discussion about "The English Disease" It was sad, and be English, I felt ashamed.
Me as well, sitting with my old man, 10 i was, game should never of went ahead
Hat's off to you Mark, I have often thought of Heysel and the forgotten 39 lost lives in 1985. Never comes up in conversations on Sports programmes. Horrendous night.
Time for that to change. The 39 didn't die just to be forgotten.
@@anthonyo.6084 I didn't realize there was a book. Ty for that info. Title of the book?
@@anthonyo.6084 Thank you. I'll check it out.
It's not just 39 is it they all had families
39 were murdered. Scousers still revelling in their self pity of hillsborough 30 odd years later, whilst conveniently passing over this. Maybe if we’d have had 30 yrs hounding the perpetrators a few of them would be in jail.
Great interview. I applaud Mark Lawrenson for his honesty over the years. Fascinating stuff, yet tragic at the same time.
Very brave of him to bring it up. I was in Belgium, with work, the week following Heysel and I was incredibly uncomfortable and I was only saying to my wife last week after Paris that you never hear about Heysel so I’m so glad Lawro has brought this up.
Regardless of guilt, Heysel is the reason why Liverpool struggle for sympathy from fans of other clubs, especially as the two disaster were only four years apart.
Have to agree
Absolutely Liverpool has gotten away with mass murder REMEMBER Hillsborough the police didn't kill all those people Liverpool supporters did
I disagree. theres little respect from any English club to another English club. Id say LFCs success is a factor in this. Your texts are a reflection of the scurrilous victim card levelled at LFC supporters year on year.
It's because they are streets ahead of every other club in England success wise. Envy and Jealousy
@@edmundpower1250 streets ahead of United in terms of success? Count your titles and fa cups.
Mark has gone up in my estimation massively. But the documentary has to happen.
Andy Green, the video's over 12 months old, it was just before he brought his book out.
If you want to watch something about Heysel, then check how Heysel changed football. It was on channel four, and somebody did upload it on KZhead
There is one. Requiem For A Cup Final, it is on KZhead
@@SFNDMK there was also an episode of Disaster on Discovery Channel some years ago that was dedicated to both disasters at Heysel and Hillsborough,it was on this programme that the narrator mentioned the poor state of the stadium and the fact it probably wouldn’t have got a British safety certificate
He'll get his tyres done in the next time he's up there.
Bet they talk about it in certain parts of Turin very often !!!!!!!! Respect to Mark for even mentioning it
Yes , I bet they do .
@scallyhunter nice message from yourself.. the reason things are like you say in Turin is because they have class mate
Mark well done for been so honest , it has been my view for ages
Rest in peace to those who died in this awful tragedy 37 years ago in 1985 today. 29th May 2022.
I was just wondering about the date. Ty. RIP Angels.
And on the 37th anniversary Liverpool FC held their celebratory parade through Liverpool. Imagine if it was April 15th , there wouldn't be any celebrations. That's why Liverpool FC and their supporters get stick. The hypocrisy is obvious. Well done Mark Lawrenson.
@@gary1642 I disagree with you completely. There was nothing wrong with that parade and there's no hypocrisy at Liverpool FC. Heysel was 37 years ago and Liverpool fans in 2022 (Especially those aged 50 and under) have absolutely nothing to do with what happened there. People like you don't really care about the Juventus fans who died in 1985.
@@EightFrancs wow what a despicable post. To be fair I'm used to it. 37 years of denials and hypocrisy from the likes of you never gets stale. I care about the 37 Juve fans every bit as much as I do for the victims of Hillsborough all of whom were completely innocent. Your post proves its you that has no feeling for the victims of Heysel and their families. Is 37 yrs the cut off point for remembrance? World War 1 and 2 , Munich, Hillsborough, 9/11, should these events now be forgotten. This all came from a Liverpool player at Heysel, then stayed and made his life in the local area pointing out what we all know, its never been treated as it should by the Club its players and its fans, all of whom should be ashamed of their actions. Good on Lawrenson sadly he stands alone.
@@gary1642 No son there is no cut off point for remembrance and there are no denials. But YOU have the raw nerve to use the Heysel deaths to write absolute nonsense about Liverpool fans who had nothing to do with Heysel. Shame on you. You're a disgrace.
Sono da sempre un tifoso della Juve, ho 65 anni, quella sera dovevo essere all'Heisel, probabilmente sarei stato nel settore Z.. Avevo visto allo stadio Olimpico di Roma le due finali del 1977 e del 1984, ho gioito per le vittorie del Liverpool che ho sempre tifato sin da bambino, quello che è successo all'Heisel è qualcosa di tremendo, inaudito. La grande responsabilità per me è stata degli organizzatori belgi e della Uefa, incapaci e corrotti!! Onore a Mark che non dimentica e ci tiene in memoria, peccato che a Torino si siano invece dimenticati ed hanno seppellito la memoria. Sogno da anni una grande nuova finale europea fra Juve e Liverpool in amicizia e fratellanza!
I was at Heysel and Hillsborough and I totally agree that Heysel was almost forgotten. That's always felt uncomfortable.
guilty conscience?
@@scandeeply No. I was just at it. I didn't participate in anything. It's like asking if you have a guilty conscience.
were you in danger then ? Hillsborough looked horrible to be anywhere near that day
@@kellyfinch5257 No. I'd been in the pen behind the goal and went to go in there again. I was with a different set of mates though, and they said there would be more room at the side. It was comfortable there, until you realised what was happening. Almost everyone would naturally head to the openings in front of them which would take you into the pens behind the goal. That's what happened really.
@@jimstan23 I would not have liked being in a huge cage . Must be horrid knowing people died around you though
Liverpool fan through and through , my family member was at Heysel and growing up I knew a lot about it from his diary. The football hooligan groups at that time in stadiums that were falling apart are reasons why they died yes…. However not speaking on it in my opinion is cowardice . How can we scream for justice on one hand (righty so) but then shelve heysel it’s nonsense.
But they did get justice
nice to hear someone from liverpool say this.
Mark is 100% correct when he states the game should never have been played that night after the said tradegy!! Mark also states he's never watched a second of footage from that night, well Mark we both have something in common because I never went to watch another game at Anfield , ashamed to be a fan of LFC after 4 years of solid home and away games from 1981-1985 ☹️☹️☹️☹️
Clearly weren’t there, me arl wool.
Spot on Mark. I remember it well and the flak English clubs took following the match. Everton fans will never forget it.
It cost Everton dearly, it tarnished what was the best era in the clubs history
Also, Luton town. I am a blue, got talking to a luton fan a few years ago about Heysel, it wasn't just Everton treated badly that day, Luton were league cup winners and couldn't go to europe either, and their decent was meteoric. Not long ago they got back into the football league
@@jonhunter8737 many clubs suffered as a result Jon, Oxford, Luton, Wimbledon.. to name a few
@@TootingKarmoon The BT documentary, Two Tribes is a good window into our world in the 80's. Tough times, music and football got people through, gave them a distraction, but Lawrenson is on that talking about Heysel. Again. Airbrushed from history.
@@jonhunter8737well said John, I could have been that Luton fan you were talking to, Everton had a brilliant side at the time, capable of winning back to back European cups, and for Luton fans it was heartbreaking, we had just had our best season ever and really fancied our chances in Europe, I dont know about this fans from other clubs stuff I've been reading here, at the time it all looked like Liverpool fans (as if they would allow geezers with other clubs shirts on amongst them) fairly standard Liverpool (English clubs) hooliganism, fair play to Lawro for bringing it up, it's never talked about.
I have wondered for years why there is almost no mention of Heysel either from Liverpool or indeed from the media as a counterpoint to Hillsborough. So how brave of Mark Lawrenson to say something. The victims may not have been Liverpool supporters but they were human beings with mothers, fathers, brothers and children. They have been forgotten in the UK. That is shameful.
They are not forgotten It's a myth Every LFC player who brought out a book has written about it
37 were italians of the 39 that died.One was an irish liverpool fan and another was a belgian liverpool fan.
All wictims at heysel was juventus supporters.
??? Liverpool pay tribute EVERY year and have a memorial at Anfield. Kenny Dalglish laid a wreath before this year's CL final.
@@rampantram1 yes and they are calling heysel an acident and not a act of hooliganism, it was a planned act of violence.
My God Mark, it's so good to see you. Watched you so many times for Ireland in the 80's. One of the best defenders English (and world football) has ever seen.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@millwallholdings Truth hurt?
I respect Mark so much for this. I have always asked this question myself.
I was at herself. It as the worst day of my life. We were in the stand next to the wall. This was nothing to do with UEFA, the Belgian police or the Juve fans. The blame lies completely with Liverpool fans. There was no aggression from the juve fans who were mainly families. IT was all down to the Liverpool thugs and yet ever since there has been a struggle ng attempt to either forget it happened or to blame someone else. There are no minute silences for the 39.
There's always always always a yearly commemoration. Klopp and Henderson laid a wreath at the commemorative plaque on the morning of the parade (the day of the anniversary). And the reason why there aren't minutes silence is because the football season is always over by that time. King Kenny laid a wreath in remembrance before the final in Paris though.
What block was that ?
@@fromthefountofyouth In which, without fail, the club never take responsibility. This year´s club statement was an insult.
@@prf7237 What was the club's statement?
@@fromthefountofyouth Another delusional member of the Wallpushers club! Tell that to Turin, Juventus, and the relatives of those killed!
Respect for good old Mark Lawrenson.
Only took Liverpool 25 years to commemorate the Heysel disaster with a plaque at Anfield so that goes to show how they view that tragic event.
It wasn't a "Tragic Event". It was a Massacre of Italian football fans!!!
And one Irish lad
As opposed to nothing outside Turin?
@@dragonballfanscantread2383 they literally built a memorial right outside Juventus headquarters and countless sundials and sculptures
@@rajkaranvirk7525 Sure, that's all good. What about within Juventus Stadium?
Very rare indeed , usually conveniently brushed under the carpet . Well said that man .
The stadium was crumbling, underdeveloped and stones were lying around, ticket assignment was a disaster, the preparedness from the police and organization of the whole event was a disaster, but also the fans went in a craze... It was traumatic for everyone involved and a collective black day for the sport, the organisation and fanbase as a whole.
I have been thinking about Heysel of late. Always wondered why it isn't mentioned or memorials streamed. I care, I remember. Let's not forget them!
I’m sure they remember it in Turin, and commemorate it every year like they do at the heysel memorial at Anfield. So wonder no more, it is commemorated and the victims are not forgotten
Heysel is 'mentioned' EVERY YEAR. Every year there are flowers laid etc. if Mark isn't talking to other players involved thats one thing, but LFC do mark this tragic event; Klopp and Henderson marked it in 2022 by laying flowers at the memorial at Anfield.
@@monkeybone39 the club acknowledges it, because they are a class club, but the fans don't. All i hear from Liverpool fans is that they are the most courteous and sensible fans on the planet and have never done a thing wrong. And if you even dare to argue otherwise by mentioning the H word, they throw the other H word (Hillsborough) in your face and call you disrespectful.
@@monkeybone39 Well it's not mentioned here in the States. Hell, I went to my first ever match on April 16, they didn't even recognize the #97 or the Liverpool tragedy. They could have in respect football family is world wide now.
@@samwize28 They are disrespectful for saying that. I'd take one down on that itself.
I watched it when I was a student, had a very heated argument with a die hard football fan who said they should play the game to prevent crowd violence. I was as disgusted as I've ever been, it was like dancing on peoples graves.
They were never forgotten in my public house. Rip the 39 souls.
Respect to Mark Lawrenson for mentioning this tragedy which has been sweptunder the carpet. English European football's darkest day.
I was 18 years old at the time of Heysel and I remember it all too well. About 10 years ago I began a friendship with a woman who was 3 years old in 1985. She was British born and bred and had no interest in football. She knew all about Hillsborough but she had never heard of Heysel until I told her about it. She also knew about the Bradford fire disaster which happened a couple of weeks before Heysel but of Heysel itself she was completely ignorant. I think there is definitely an unspoken agreement in the mainstream media to avoid mentioning it.
As fans we are ashamed of it its so sad and tragic . RIP 39. YNWA
As a rival fan, I don't hold the incident against LFC fans, as all fanbases have a rotten 1% capable of anything. What does irk me though is that it is never (or only very rarely such as this content) recognised, and is sometimes outright denied.
If you are so ashamed of it why did you never apologise ?
He is absolutely right. I remember that evening so well, in fact it was an awful time to be a football fan. When they had the issues with crowd control in Paris the other week, everyone spoke about Hilsborough but it was Heysel that I was reminded of.
Why so? The problems in Paris were because of bad policing and people being herded into dangerously small spaces. There was no trouble between the fans.
@@gomey70 Because that was simply what I thought of as events were unfolding. Sorry, but I don't need to justify it.
@daviddwyer5568 You are right that you don't have to as there's no KZhead moderator coming round the house to force you but even as a non Liverpool fan, I can't but feel you are obliged to with such a bold comment.
I (65yr non Liverpool living LFC supporter) mentioned this after LFC supporters disgracefully boo,’d the anthem. Many excuses were given and inevitably Hillsborough came up. Nothing was mentioned about this shocking event while Liverpudlians were spouting off being victims - their anger at authority, history and excuses for booing. I was in Germany on Heysel night for a very important business meeting with Italians. Got back late to the hotel and in the TV room was greeted by “mad British” - all I could see on TV were people and horses on the pitch. Attended the meeting the following day where the Italians simply walked out when we arrived leaving German and Norwegians staring at each other and us apologising for our country. One can understand the anger.
Why are they playing anthems at football games?
Fair play here. I mentioned this the other week in a discussion as to 'why do stadium issues seem to follow Liverpool around?' I got one Liverpool fan trying to tell me that it's well documented that it was the Juve fans that caused it. WTF? Nothing to do with a selection of Liverpool fans charging through the breach. The sad fact is that there are SOME extremely deplorable Liverpool fans that are causing significant problems and this results in the tarring of the whole fanbase. It's not fair on the majority of the fans, but it's completely understandable given the troubles caused and authorities don't really have much time to differentiate between good ones and bad ones in the heat of moments
Wtf Liverpool fan's got stabbed by Italians wake up
Always the victims, it’s never their fault
@@GarieTag Well you're claiming something that hardly any mainstream organisation is reporting
@@duncanchilds2399 How original. Grow up
Don't engage with that cult.
Thank you Mark! All respect to you sir and I hope you do speak about it again. All the best for you in the future!
Well done for speaking out on this Mark
Well said Mark , brave of you
I vividly remember the night.. couldn't believe what I was seeing on TV and massively stunned and upset. I was only 13 and personally I was falling out of love with football due to the culture that surrounded it at the time.. this just destroyed my love of the game for years. I 'supported' Liverpool in the mid to late 70s through the early 80s too. Respect to Mark L for his insight
always the victims victimpool
@@stanh8071 Cry more and get a life
Its about time this got mentioned.
I go wrong sometimes. I saw Mark Lawrenson in Birkdale at Christmas one year and lost the plot, gave him a big hug , although quite shocked he was a perfect gentleman and just asked was I Alright and smiled . He’s a living ledge ⚽️ x
I recall watching this unfold as a teenager at home (Must've been on the BBC or ITV). One of my most vivid memories is listening to the co-commentator, the late Emlyn Hughes, actually crying on live TV watching the horrific events unfold. The most amazing thing is that despite all this death the authorities insisted that the game go ahead which of course it eventually did.
It wasnt shown live, til news came about the incident, as they hadnt intention of airing the game then as they do now, but you, like me probably saw it on emergency news and on whats now final score later on on bbc1
It was live on BBC 1. It was one of the few games shown live at the time, along with a few league games, the FA Cup final, the league Cup final and England games. They broadcast everything that happened before the game. Kickoff was at 9.45pm in the end. It was played because of the fear of more trouble if it wasn't. Which I understood at the time. I remember watching it with my Dad and we were stunned by the events. It should never have been played at that death trap of a ground in the first place.
so true great interview there should be minutes silence every year at the euro Cup final
Many of the scenes on the television have stuck with me , Lawro careful with his words here and perhaps holding back but clearly still upset , good on him
As a Liverpool fan myself. He is right. Its shame but we should do better because we know what it’s like for fans to never come home from a football match. Like all history, it’s about accepting what happened regardless of how uncomfortable it is. Yes it was a poor quality stadium, yes the fans shouldn’t have been that close to each other from opposing teams but at the end of the day, a group of Liverpool fans rushed other supporters and regardless of what the intention was, people died.
A Johnny come lately Irish tourist. The Juve fans started throwing bottles and stones. One young Liverpool fan was getting beaten up. An Italian was waving a knife. I guess Liverpool should have just stood there and taken it?
There’s blame that should be apportioned to all sides. UEFA , Belgian authorities, Liverpool and English fans and Juventus fans. That ‘ reds animals ‘ banner wasn’t made up on the spot. Plus a Juventus fan brought a starting pistol into the ground!! Things like that can be attributed to UEFA. If they had chosen a proper ground instead of a dilapidated athletics stadium, then there would have been proper turnstiles with proper policing. If they had given Liverpool fans all of that end then there wouldn’t have been any problems. Yet the small minority of Liverpool and other English fans should’ve been able to stand there and watch the game in peace. There were other English fans there that night, over for a jolly up and a nose around. I saw a guy in an Arsenal shirt right next to the flimsy fence on the Getty images site. I magnified the picture because I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I know people who went and they said that there was a lot of different accents in Brussels and at the ground. Not a huge amount but still enough to make a difference.
@@mariobasler3221 'The Juve fans started throwing bottles and stones. One young Liverpool fan was getting beaten up.' That didn't happen. 'An Italian was waving a knife.' That didn't happen. Liverpool fans charged Juventus fans. That did happen.
@@mariobasler3221 T'he Juve fans started throwing bottles and stones. One young Liverpool fan was getting beaten up. An Italian was waving a knife.' Where is there a shred of reliable evidence to back up this claim?..
@@thevillaaston7811 You have ZERO evidence that it didnt happen as well. Remember that. So you cant just deny those things. It might have happened because loads of italian ultras were very violent to Liverpool fans a year prior in Rome. There were tensions between Italians and English people. But yes those Liverpool fans who charged at them were definitely to blame and we are sorry for it.
I and a number of friends were in Iceland watching Scotland in a world cup qualifier, the Liverpool game was live on TV but never did see the game as the Icelandic Authorities took the match off air and closed the station down that night. the next morning we found out why and some of the Italian newspapers did not hold back with very graphic pictures of the tragedy.
Well said Mark - brave and honest man
Heysel is 'mentioned' EVERY YEAR. Every year there are flowers laid etc. if Mark isn't talking to other players involved thats one thing, but LFC do mark this tragic event; Klopp and Henderson marked it in 2022 by laying flowers at the memorial at Anfield.
@@monkeybone39 ki
I was 15 at the time and remember it as if it was yesterday. I was on holiday in the Eden Valley so dependent on the television in the TV room at the camp site we were staying at. The game should not have been played despite the concerns that not doing so may have worsened the situation, difficult though the judgement call must have been, to say the least. I am not aware of other matches that have been played after many have died in such circumstances. As someone else has pointed out, there are people walking around who were involved in what happened and have escaped justice. The stadium was not fit for purpose but the same could be said of other stadia where large events have been held yet attendees behaved properly. The wall did not collapse on its own. The horror of Heysel has not dimmed all these years later; footage of it on You Tube is truly beyond belief and no words can do justice to the tragic and completely avoidable loss of life. Those responsible should hang their heads in shame.
Juventus played a blinder when they played at Anfield years later and the Scouse Drama machine kicked in and they saw it as an opportunity to offer an over the top apology, marching from the centre of the pitch to the Juve end with wreaths, when they got there the Italians spurned their efforts by turning their backs and giving them the finger. Bravo Raggazzo’😉
They lost the round, so you mean their fans, not the club.
That's one I remember. I even remember how I learned about it. I was on a break in the back room of the coffee house I was working at and flipping through the New York Daily News. The photos were shocking, especially for me who is short and tends to be a bit claustrophobic.
Big respect to Mark for manning up.
I don't think the term 'manning up' is the most appropriate given the circumstances of what happened that day
@@TootingKarmoon 39 innocent Italian fans killed and 15 Liverpool supporters convicted of man slaughter. Getting anyone from LFC acknowledging this tragedy is unheard of. RIP the 39 viva Juventus.
Well done mark for highlighting it
RESPECT MARK .
I still find it unbelievable that they decided to play the game after they knew there had been fatalities..
Both sets of players were desperate to win it despite knowing fans had died.
@@maratonlegendelenemirei3352 crazy how times change because these Days in the Premier League the Game gets stopped if someone is unwell in the Crowd and doesn’t get started again until the Paramedics have got them out and into safety….
@@maratonlegendelenemirei3352 nah the match was dreadful no one cared who won both teams knew something was up
@@DudleyBlue thank god for that
@@richardlewis7498 Didn''t you see the goal celebration from Platini and others
Brilliant interview. Well done lads and well done Mark Lawrenson for a unique insight into that awful night. Always had a grá for Juve because of Liam Brady but that night turned me into a savage Juventino.
You were not there were you didn't y ou see the juventus banner reds animals and the supporters with guns which are still available to view accept it was a bad arrangements for a final of such a nature especially to put opposing support in the Liverpool section after what happened in Rome Liverpool support was attacked all through the game and also by the police does anyone mention that I was at both games mention both sides of the argument
Liam Brady- what a player..would be fabluous in today's game. He could read a game, had great touch and super passing skills.
@@degsy53 The English had been rioting for years all across Europe both clubs and national team. They rioted in Turin at the euros in 1980. Re the banner. You don't know much about Italian fan culture. They improvise a lot and banners are made up on the spot
@@degsy53 Liar,.. The TV footage tells the real story
Legend. Fair play to him.
Great inrerv8ew as always.
5 minutes of " why isn't anyone talking about it" Then says he couldn't be arsed replying to the email regarding a program about it....
I remember Heysel. Was camping out in my mate's back garden the night it happened.
It's good to hear an honest person. Best Wishes for a fulfilling future!
Maybe it is because it happened abroad and English clubs were banned from European competition for five years; Liverpool for six years. Several top officials, police captain Johan Mahieu, and 14 Liverpool fans convicted of manslaughter. Unlike Hillsborough, it didn't have an ongoing saga for too many years because of the police cover ups. It does get mentioned but not like Hillsborough is because it didn't happen here. I think one Brit died from Northern Ireland and the rest were European and that's another reason it isn't in our media all the time. It was caused by Liverpool fans sadly and got us banned from Europe, people don't want to remember that.
Very honnest of him ! Liverpool have deleted this from history
That's just an outright lie considering Liverpool have sent representatives to memorials in Turin to lay wreaths. There's a memorial inside Anfield for decades and Dalglish even laid a wreath before the CL final. All you have is wilful ignorance.
Wreaths? That it?
@@happyapple4269 bang up job reading only portions of the sentence. But what exactly would be the correct way for the club to react to this? Keeping in mind that there hasn't been an admission of inappropriate venue or event management from UEFA.
@@happyapple4269what else are you looking for?
Its been airbrushed out of history. They never stop banging on about Hillsborough.
Are you new to human psychology? Everyone always feels tragedy that happened to them much more closely then tragedy that was inflicted by people on your own side. Why do you think we spend so much time commiserating over western soldiers who died in war while completely dismissing everybody we killed in a war? This isn’t unique to Liverpool football club. But the club should do better.
@@conors4430 I think they were referring to the unique victim mentality that a lot Liverpool fans have over Hillsborough. It's a bit of an odd position when you been at fault for a stadium disaster yourselves that not only killed many people but also got English clubs kicked out of European competition for a number of years.
@@conors4430 That's the best excuse I've heard yet.
@@conors4430 Spot on ! Human Nature is what it is
They are a disgusting classless club whose supporters only want to play the victim!!
Well done Mark..spot on heysel has been forgotten were Liverpool is concerned and no it shouldn't be ..well said ..
Remember coming home from school ,to watch live rioting on terraces, seemed to go on for ages. After the event, wasn't the brit media blaming the stadium design, the walls, the police , uefa ... it was tragic and it was on tv Live. Awful
I was at Heysel, a Liverpool supporter aged 21 and I didn’t murder anyone. I still have my ticket as I entered the ground through a hole in the wall, just take that in… a hole in a wall of a stadium hosting the European Cup Final. The stadium was completely unfit for purpose, it was a crumbling wreck. As I entered the ground I could see that the opposite end of the stadium was Juventus, all of it. Our end was Liverpool, except it wasn’t because it was 2/3rds Liverpool and 1/3rd Juventus. UEFA in their wisdom had allocated 33% of our end to Juventus. I was struggling to move where I was stood, we were rammed in so tight it was awful and we were all wondering why this was the case…it became clear afterwards. As kick off came closer, I remember the tensions were terrible, our section was unbearable, many Liverpool supporters were struggling to cope with how we were all so rammed in, much like they were in Paris at the weekend prior to the game. I’m tall so I could see more than others and I saw the fence between us and Juventus was so flimsy. Then I remember flares being fired over the fence from Juventus supporters to us landing in the middle of our supporters, not just one flare but many as well as fireworks. The atmosphere grew even worse as the sense of injustice we felt being rammed in was now real. The fireworks continued and I could see the Juventus supporters taunting us, of course the Liverpool supporters retaliated both verbally and eventually physically. I couldn’t see what was happening too clearly but I heard lots of shouting and aggression and I remember seeing in the distance some Juventus fans being crammed into a corner. So please note now … at no point did I nor the Liverpool supporters around me realise what was happening as we couldn’t see, I just thought there was confrontation between the two sets of fans. Everything dragged on and the kick off was delayed, rumours started to spread about injuries and a wall collapsing, but as I was stood there I swear on my life I still did not have a clue what was going on. I saw at the other end Juventus supporters wearing face coverings and some of them seemed to be holding weapons and I’ve never known a tension like it inside a stadium. There was information over the tannoy, but apart from a few words in English most of the information given to the crowd was in Italian. The game was strange and I remember feeling very angry Juventus getting a penalty that was not a penalty, and I remember Liverpool were the better team. Why did I feel like this? Because NONE OF US had a clue that people had died, they didn’t tell us, so we just watched the game as normal, all be it realising that was being played in a very strange, highly toxic atmosphere. As we left the stadium there were Juventus supporters openly showing they had knives and sticks. I saw coaches being attacked and supporters being set upon, I guess in revenge. We got out of Brussels asap and I swear the first time I realised anyone had died was on the ferry probably about 4 hrs later. It was a tragedy and I feel for those poor souls who died and their friends and families. But the stadium was like a building site, it was dilapidated and dangerous. I am not a scally, 5 years after Heysel I became a police officer myself. I think about Heysel a lot and I’m happy to talk about it, unlike Mark Lawrenson here. Yes Liverpool supporter caused the deaths of 39 innocent Italians, but there was many many other extenuating circumstances surround this debacle organised by UEFA.
So basically Juventus got more tickets for fans and more space in the ground ( eg they took some space from the Liverpool fans end. Any idea why that happened ? What was the official reason ( and unofficial ) ? Putting rival fans together that close in a crappy stadium with flimsy fences was just asking for trouble IMO. At Hillsborough , Liverpool fans got given the tight Leppings Lane end , with a narrow entry space and less room than the Forest fans. It seems to me that the common denominator of Heysel , Hillsborough , and now Paris is Liverpool fans being crammed in , denied space , having to pass through tight bottle necks and being given the worst deal in the stadiums for various reasons. All 3 events were preventable with proper crowd management and proper facilities.
Obviously 'NOT YOUR FAULT MATE'
A fine analysis showing precisely the failings of the ground, the supporters and the killings. Well done for such a comprehensive report on the actuality of the football match.
@@3chords490 the section in the Liverpool end was actually supposed to be a "neutral" section. Loads of Juve in there though
You protest too much pal but you can’t deny some LFC charged and ran the Italians that’s fact if you weren’t one of them well done you are not to blame but some of your fellow fans and our countrymen did contribute to the deaths of those poor souls god bless them
It doesn’t get a mention because some Liverpool fans acts like morons and savages that night. The disaster that night was completely down to Liverpool fans. No ifs, buts or maybe. From a Liverpool fan.
A self hating Liverpool fan. Those 39 people would be still alive if UEFA picked a suitable ground and the fans were segregated. Yobs at both sides as there was at every game in the 1970s and 1980s. The ignorance of people.
@@mariobasler3221 Sorry, blame the choice of grounds all you want but if Liverpool fans would have behaved themselves that night, the tragedy wouldn’t have occurred. End of.
@@mariobasler3221 it’s UEFAs fault for Heysel, and the polices fault for hillsborough. Got it. Glad we cleared that up.
@@HisrealnameisLukeFury true but if you are organiser of an event you are responsible for the safety. UEFA and the Belgian FA cannot escape with a clean slate.
@@MightyRoos I totally agree. UEFA and the Belgian authorities were definitely to blame along with a minority of Liverpool and other English fans.
GREAT player!!!!! Always honest heartfelt in interviews.
And today they’re holding a trophy parade on it’s anniversary - despite refusing to play matches on the anniversary of Hillsborough.
And not a word from Liverpool supporters about this double stadard.
@@anthonyo.6084 Did they force you all to attend ? Liverpool council organised with LFC
@@anthonyo.6084 Liverpool refuse to play matches on the anniversary of Hillsborough, and the footballing authorities move their games to accommodate. There’s no reason Liverpool had to have the parade on the 29th, they could have done what City done and had it on the Monday.
@@anthonyo.6084 There wasn’t half a million, they’ve used the same figure as the 2019 parade when there was visibly many more there. But nevertheless, Hillsborough was 33 years ago and we still have to respect that every season and talk about it. It’s still in the news right now.
The worst part is that most of that crowd there arent even Scousers. I know for a fact , because I'm Scouse and live in the city centre. Student FC !
Very surprised that Mark Lawrenson is so naive as to wonder why Heysel is never mentioned, blindingly obvious to me and others given the comments.
The football authorities should never have PLANNED a final in stadium as decrepit as Heysel. Or Paris. Did they accept the most money for each final
Does the fault with the trouble lie with the Liverpool fans?
They mock Everton fans by holding Steaua Bucharest 86 flags as they won the European cup the following year, all English clubs got banned.
@@stevengallagher635 yes boyfriend was there with Celtic boys club said he was terrified liverpool's fans were like animals 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻for the dead
@@mr47murph86 terrified of Liverpool fans or of those running Celtic boys club
Always enjoyed listening to Mark, even as a pundit on Monday he was best pundit there, always fair and unbiased.
Well done Mark. First time i've heard it mentioned by anyone associated with it in any way.
Worth noting there is a memorial to Heysel at Anfield and the club put flowers there every year.
How long did it take before it was erected?
That's great. I'm 27, have followed football more or less my whole life and the only time I have ever seen or heard of Heysel was watching reeling in the years.
@@stephenholmes1036 Too long.
@Shiri hist 🟤 Does who blame the tories for Heysel? I have never seen anyone blame the tories for Heysel if your question is addressed to me.
@Shiri hist 🟤 I believe the victims at Heysel were Juventus supporters & neutral fans. You would need to ask them why they blame the tories. It would seem odd though.
Heysel isn't mentioned because it goes against the preferred narrative of Koppites always being victims. It's never, ever their fault. Official UEFA observer Gunter Schneider said, "Only the English fans were responsible. Of that there is no doubt." I watched it live and anyone who thinks for a second it wasn't Liverpool fans to blame obviously wasn't paying attention.
I am no fan of Liverpool , but the game should never have been played at Heysal. It was not fit for purpose and to my knowledge both Liverpool and tha FA complained to EUFA who I am believe took no notice. But it should always be highlighted just like Hillsborough.
@@bluenorsky5207 So a stadium was used all season whilst 'unfit for purpose'? Even if it wasn't fit for purpose how does that justify Liverpool fans causing 37 deaths?
@@zoothornrollo9960 I'm not justifying anything I simple said that at the time the LFC and the FA complained to EUFA that it was not fit for purpose for a European Cup final for the amount of people that were going to turn up. I don't know the gates that Heysal had for the season but I would guess they would not be as many there as a European Cup final.
I was at the match, and I gave evidence to the enquiry. 14 Liverpool fans were convicted of manslaughter and 2 Belgian officials were convicted of criminal negligence and were also imprisoned. The final 'charge' was certainly undertaken by a section of Liverpool supporters, no question, hence the convictions. Belgian/UEFA security officials also confirmed that the initial spark, was cause by Juve. fans throwing rubble across at the Liverpool supporters.
The reason for the fences at hillsborough and why the police treated the 'fans' as they did. Football fans in the 80s were out of control.
Fair play, Lawro - what’s right is right! I’m a bit younger and honestly I’ve literally only just heard about it - hence looking for more info about it and found this vid. For something so violent and tragic to just be seemingly ignored reeks of hypocrisy and is just a really scummy and cowardly thing to do. 39 people died…that is horrific.
Wherever blame was apportioned tragedy seems to follow Liverpool and their supporters. Disaster follows disaster, poor behaviour follows poor behaviour and yet Liverpool and their supporters seem impervious to any critisium!
I live in Brussels & I remember the disgusting hooliganism in the city centre all day before the match. My best friend's shop (close to the Grand Place) had her shop window smashed in for no reason & she also went through a terrible time.
Who did it though?
@@sandwormgod4771 You know.....
@@habu179 Really? I don't and neither do you, you're assuming.
The Juventus fans were every bit as responsible for the hooliganism at Heysel as the Liverpool fans were. There's accounts of Juventus fans charging the Liverpool fans and indiscriminantly attacking people including kids.
@@mohammedmohsin2128 Thank goodness you said it. I make no excuses for the Liverpool fans behaviour, but it wasn't one sided.
Well said Mark.
Totally agree with you 👍🏾
I could listen to Lawro all day. Such an eloquent and important man. What happened that evening affected so many.
Fair play to Lawrenson for saying the cold truth. Liverpool fans want the world to acknowledge April 15th for Hillsborough. And yet, on May 29th this year, the club not only failed to acknowledge Heysel, but they held an unnecessary parade through the streets of Liverpool. Can you imagine the uproar if a parade was held on April 15th?
The difference between Hillsborough & Heysel is that the Liverpool fans were faultless in the former. Heysel was like two players charging in to tackle one other with reckless abandon. If one emerges with a broken leg, they get no red card & lots of public sympathy. If the other stands up again, they get a red card & become public enemy number one.
Spot on
Hats off to the lad for this it’s never talked about I watched on tv as it happened livecon tv
Lawro is right, and Hillsborough and Heysel should be mentioned together never separate, they were both injustices for different reasons and both equally tragic Its because one of those events envokes sympathy towards the club and the other event envokes rage..
@@justhannah3960 there similar liverpool fans were murderes in both
@@listerwelsh933 agreed.And could those two tradegies have been a factor behind the Paris policing last week?not that I'm justifying their actions
@@listerwelsh933 And you absolve the authorities of their responsibility of care. They had the authority to manage the crowd and ensure not more than necessary was allowed. The crush wasn't because Liverpool supporters forced their way through but because those in charge were derelict in their duty of ensuring only the right number of people went allowed into each pen.
Agreed 100%
@@justhannah3960 sorry but both were caused by Liverpool fans.
Same as the tradgey at Bradford. The press never mention it.
was that so i remember it but didnt know it was same day ! wow that was tragic also everyone rip
@@fuxxthewoke3824 no, not same day.
Well said ML!!
Well done mark for mentioning this.👍
So many folk just don't know about this, espaecially younger ones. I was with Everton two weeks before this happened, in Rotterdam with 22,000 fellow Blues. It was well organised and trouble-free. Heysel was a terrible event, many mistakes were made in the choice of stadsium and ticketing, but a minority of Liverpool's support caused this, and the club should acknowledge the tragedy and commemorate it with as much vigour as they do Hillsborough.
Ground was not fit for purpose! should never have been used for a european final and they were warned by Liverpool FC not to use this ground! it was crumbling apart, why did they put liverpool fans with juventus fans in the same end with a bit of chicken wire separating the fans? italian fans were as bad as LFC fans fighting each other! italian fans are renowned for violence are they not?
Thanks for your honesty,Edward....it's refreshing. There are plenty of savage hooligans among clubs(we have(had?) Them at Leeds and on one occasion their behaviour led to a wall collapsing and the death of an opposition fan..so there no room for holier than thou. Its the seeming reluctance of some Liverpool supporters to follow your example that annoys the neutrals. We've always been in the doghouse here so we've learnt to live with it ,and the majority -honest locals here have not pretended we've never merited some of the dislike and criticism that's come our way.maybe in the football department there s at least one thing you could learn from us!
Do you know why the Liverpool fans charged the 'neutral' end? They were getting rocks and fireworks thrown at them from that section full of Juventus fans. No fans of any English team in 1985 would have done differently. Those that died were not those that threw anything.
Shame on Liverpool fc and fans. Bloody hands
Cc f
@Larry Moran total UEFA set up
@Larry Moran was it fired! its all if and buts
@Larry Moran lies. The lfc fans broke through the fence armed with guns and knives
There was a documentary about Heysel on UK TV a long time ago, with some of the players talking about it. But generally it doesn't get mentioned, which is ridiculous.
I was in Brussels a week before the match. We wandered around the city and the Atomium and the park. We walked up to the walls of the stadium and they were about 6 feet high. Not the enormous imposing structure you would expect for such a high profile game with the potential for crowd trouble. It was an awful decision to hold it there. Not a LFC fan and not excusing what happened - but there are reasons why opposing fans are kept apart. That stadium was the wrong choice before the game started.
Phil Neil asked for payment for a 20th anniversary interview with the guardian. says it all
*Neal.
Mark Lawrenson is wrong. Heysel is mentioned - but not as much as Hillsborough - because with Heysel, the perpetrators that caused the deaths of 39 Italian fans were arrested (34 of of them) and some of them were all jailed - including three officials; one Belgian FA and two Belgian Police. Whereas with Hillsborough, it was a total cover up from the Police, Government and the Media. With Heysel, it was a disaster from day 1. Other stadiums were available and Heysel was considered unsafe. Then, UEFA as they always do, retained tickets which were supposed to be for Belgian fans but ended up on the black market and being sold to Liverpool fans which resulted in Juventus fans and Liverpool fans to mix. So, yes. Liverpool fans deserved to be jailed for their role - but as always, UEFA got away without any blame.
Nail on head
Well said Mark
Top man. Spoke so well.
He´s right. It is strange. The images and videos of that day are absolutely horrific. The thing with Heysel, in comparison to Hillsborough, is that all of the relevant authorities up to and including Juventus themselves saw fit to sweep it under the carpet. The Liverpool fans who charged the Juventus supporters were obviously the most direct at fault. So when the Liverpool fans were rightly done for manslaughter, LFC and the English clubs banned from Europe, too many other culpable parties saw that as enough to take the heat off them. The "English hooligans" was the easiest and simplest line to follow. The problem is UEFA and Belgian authorities were involved in the organisation of the event in forseeably unsafe conditions, and even Juventus were happy to claim the European Cup won that day and didn´t want to publicise the fact that, after 39 supporters had already died in horrific circumstances, the game was unbelievably played on in fear of there being another riot from their end of the ground in response. There was never a campaign for justice into the deeper issues of the day - as there absolutely should have been. If football had properly addressed its safety issues after Heysel as it should have done, in the same way it did after Hillsborough, then perhaps Hillsborough would not even have happened (that is not me saying Hillsborough was down to the fans by the way - it absolutely wasn´t. But it was down to patently unfit stadiums and crowd control management, as was Heysel). It should have been the wake up call, and it wasn´t. Even today in England, most fans are happy just to use it as a stick to beat Liverpool fans with, without actually caring or understanding about the event or what went on. People, many of whom were not even alive at the time, doing wall pushing gestures and singing "Murderers" is the sad and only real remaining legacy of the horrendous deaths of 39 people. The whole thing is grim. RIP39.
Your obviously a Liverpool fan.
..". Down to unfit stadiums and crowd control". Indeed.what utter nonsense. Unsafe walls don't kill people unless people destabilise them ..crowd control shouldn't be necessary among people behaving properly ..you admit (you couldn't not ,really) that those responsible were charged with manslaughter rightly .but take exception to juventus continuing the game in order to avert reprisals, as if this consideration had any bearing on anything. Similarly your view of the authorities attempt not to address supposed deeper issues and the larger issue of justice (unsafe stadiums and crowd control,presumably) again,as if this was relevant to the matter. This is all merely a smokescreen which many of us without any dislike of things Liverpool(I have on one occasion written to one of your managers complimenting your team's sportsmanship and manliness)find nausiatingly familiar about the city's public face
@@PK-yf3hd That´s a very long winded way of sayin you don´t really know much, nor care to know much, about the disaster. Or are you saying that justice WAS delivered when fans were jailed and clubs banned from Europe - in which case we should just shut up and move on? Or are you trying to make some different kind of long and roundabout point regarding why you dislike the city of Liverpool, despite having so caringly "wrote a of compliment to" a manager of LFC once upon a tiime? Which is it Paul Kilroy? If you actually do care about some of the wider issues of the day, I suggest you watch this excellent and horrific documentary on the disaster: kzhead.info/sun/Z5ixqdKmh4qjdH0/bejne.html
Dude, Juventus have swept nothing under the carpet and are the only party still remembering those 39 fans year after year. UEFA on the other hand has done its best to completely wipe this story from its "tales".
@@PK-yf3hd So hang on whilst I agree the main culpability for Heysel is with Liverpool fans . What you are saying is that there is no responsibility for authorities in delivering a safe event. If my daughter went to a Justin Bieber concert I would hope we are at the point where it would be well organised and held in a suitable arena just in case there were any issues with ticketing or crowd surges.
Eufa should have taken responsibility for selecting a falling down stadium. They've just messed up again in Paris.