Medieval Crossbow vs Flexible Armours

2020 ж. 19 Нау.
439 303 Рет қаралды

We shoot three types of medieval armour (Gambeson, Aketon and Mail) with three types of medieval bolt heads (Barbed, Needle point and Plate Cutter) from a 350lbs, 13thC crossbow. How well does each type of bolt work against each type of armour? - this film will show you.
If you would like to support my work on this channel you can always buy my fantastic reproduction medieval weaponry available here todcutler.com
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Needle bodkin and short bodkin heads from www.medievalarrows.co.uk
Medieval Mythbusting - Arrows verses Armour. • ARROWS vs ARMOUR - Med...
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  • A couple months ago my channel got hijacked and it was truly awful. It has happened to a lovely crafting site called "Engels Coach Shop". please help them, like the community helped me, and mail YT or twitter them and bring it to their attention. Just mail YT on creator-support@youtube.com

    @tods_workshop@tods_workshop4 жыл бұрын
    • Done

      @benashurov7434@benashurov74344 жыл бұрын
    • I wondered what happened to Dave. Thanks for let us know!

      @larryblackwell700@larryblackwell7004 жыл бұрын
    • Done

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    • Done

      @TDOBrandano@TDOBrandano4 жыл бұрын
    • Looks like the channel's been removed entirely. Not the outcome I'd hoped to see, to put it lightly. Edit: Channel's back! Happy days!

      @arthurlemming2020@arthurlemming20204 жыл бұрын
  • What it really underlines again is how effective all types of period armors are in reality, a far cry from Hollywood where they stand up to impacts like wet tissue paper.

    @johnfitzalan3128@johnfitzalan31284 жыл бұрын
    • Absolutely

      @tods_workshop@tods_workshop4 жыл бұрын
    • @@tods_workshop but what about the range. How far can warbows and crossbow penetrate armor? 250 yards? 100? And what about the chinese crossbow vs the european crossbow. I heard the chinese crossbow it's stretched farther

      @markcorrigan3930@markcorrigan39304 жыл бұрын
    • @@markcorrigan3930 I don't think arrows and bolts lose that much speed due to drag, correct me if I am wrong. I suspect arrows might even have better penetration at range since the arrow has more time to stop wobbling, making it more likely to be perfectly aligned at the moment of impact.

      @InqWiper@InqWiper4 жыл бұрын
    • @@InqWiper arrows and bolts lose ALOT of speed and velocity over a farther range. Crossbows especially are not very useful at range but close up behind shields they're lethal

      @Daylon91@Daylon914 жыл бұрын
    • This depiction of armour has always irritated me. No soldier worth is salt would bother with armour if it did nothing for him.

      @antikristuseke@antikristuseke4 жыл бұрын
  • A bunch of Norwegian longbowmen do a similar test almost each summer at Tønsberg medieval festival. We use a gambeson/gambeson and mail over a target of some kind, bows from 40# to 130#, and the same kind of heads (both sharpened and dull) as you. We have the same results as you, every time.

    @jacobweisth7180@jacobweisth71804 жыл бұрын
    • I would love to watch some of the videos if you have links

      @2008davidkang@2008davidkang4 жыл бұрын
    • @@2008davidkang I don't have any video of it, sorry. I'm usually one of the archers so I don't film it, however some of the audience usually does. I'm not aware of any of those clips being uploaded to KZhead though....

      @jacobweisth7180@jacobweisth71804 жыл бұрын
    • @@jacobweisth7180 If you are there this year, would you be willing to take some footage or ask somebody to take some footage? For Science! (and my personal curiosity)!

      @thecashier930@thecashier9304 жыл бұрын
    • @Abu Troll al cockroachistan I believe a solid steel bolt would be to heavy to accelerate fast enough with such a short power stroke to have any kind of range. The balance would also be bad, unlesd you had a very heavy head on it. Not to mention it would be to expensive to use in large numbers, historically. Unfortunately crossbows are illegal in Norway, so I won't be able to test it.... 😕

      @jacobweisth7180@jacobweisth71804 жыл бұрын
    • @@thecashier930 It's currently highly uncertain if they will arrange it this year. It depends on how the corona-situation develop over the next months. If it happens, I'll be sure to get some footage.

      @jacobweisth7180@jacobweisth71804 жыл бұрын
  • I love the weapon vs armour videos. They help you understand how the warfare really looked like in middle ages.

    @micharzendkowski5578@micharzendkowski55784 жыл бұрын
    • Minus the fact that there would be a man running towards and killing them

      @CYRILMARTINAJARO@CYRILMARTINAJARO4 жыл бұрын
    • @Max Paine It's also why type 16 arrowheads were narrow and long and weighted upwards to 18 grams for more kinetic energy on impact, in comparison to this broad broadhead intended for hunting and/or unarmoured horses.

      @PolluxA@PolluxA4 жыл бұрын
  • 7:17 "I was hoping it would be defeated by that." Guy in an Aketon with a bolt in his gut thinks "Me too man, me too..."

    @Lurklen@Lurklen4 жыл бұрын
    • Tod, draw a scale on the wooden shaft of your bolts so you can measure the penetration without pulling everything apart!

      @user-dt3zn1uo9g@user-dt3zn1uo9g3 жыл бұрын
  • Todd time and time again delivers content the history channel would have been proud to have years ago before it became about aliens. Doing Medieval history proud Todd, keep up the amazing work!

    @BrigadierPickles@BrigadierPickles4 жыл бұрын
    • Thanks you, thats very kind

      @tods_workshop@tods_workshop4 жыл бұрын
    • @@tods_workshop It's the truth.

      @Drewsel@Drewsel4 жыл бұрын
    • Eric and nazis...... Ailens and nazis....... A wierd combination really for a history tv channel...

      @arielnir2679@arielnir26794 жыл бұрын
    • I think this might be his best video yet. The pacing is excellent, and his joy in learning is more infectious than COVID 19!

      @milesnoell@milesnoell4 жыл бұрын
    • I second to this! I hope to see Tod and Modern History TV do some projects together! Both channels are invaluable!

      @blaubarblaubar4436@blaubarblaubar44364 жыл бұрын
  • Given that the needle bodkin needed to spread the fibres of the aketon apart to penetrate, and the fleshcutter was able to sever those fibres and thus had less resistance to overcome, I can see how it was able to penetrate deeper. Still a surprise to see it happen. The inverse applies to the mail: the needle has the narrowest cross section, and thus experiences the less resistance. And the other designs are much broader, and so they can't get through. The cutting action of the flesh cutter is no longer helping it.

    @IPostSwords@IPostSwords4 жыл бұрын
    • yeah. you wouldnt think it would have this outcome but having watched it we can see why and the science behind it.

      @opwards@opwards4 жыл бұрын
    • I'm thinking that to get a good allround armour piercing bolt head, you could try fullering the needle bodkin, giving it a four or thre pronged star shaped cross section, a bit like the Nagant bayonet where the ridges provide the stiffness needed to pry apart mail and the fullers prevent cloth fibres and flesh from sticking to it, reducing friction to the sides and providing a nastier wound.

      @SonsOfLorgar@SonsOfLorgar4 жыл бұрын
    • @@SonsOfLorgar I agree, and with the hollowed flats the corners could actually be little edges to cut the fibers. Shame no medievals either thought of this or just didn't think it worth the effort, at least that we know of.

      @somerando1073@somerando10734 жыл бұрын
    • This was my thought, it's the same science behind kevlar; spreading the fibres takes a lot of energy.

      @tinglydingle@tinglydingle4 жыл бұрын
    • @@SonsOfLorgar I would be interested to see a test with such a head. It might work exactly as you described, or the increased surface area might stop it, because the skin friction increases.

      @kilianortmann9979@kilianortmann99794 жыл бұрын
  • Hi, an actual tailor w. Renaissance hobby here. The results are absolutely logical to every tailor who has made eyelets by a sewing bodkin. Linen and cotton are very resistant and need a lot of force to penetrate without cutting. However, introduce a cutting tip even gently (shear tip, knife etc.) and it's like nothing - multiple layers included. Slashing cuts are more averted, but when pushing in, a cutting tip becomes a tremendous killer. Also, a nice fleshwound... Gambeson and aketon "choke" the bodkins and pad against the hit. I shall have to do some experiments but I believe I could probably make one (using Renaissance methods) that is rather resistant to needle point bodkin as well. And needle point, well, it is logically against mail and more loosely stacked underlayer.

    @Nemioke@Nemioke4 жыл бұрын
    • Isn't this why sewing needles are polished to a smooth surface, to avoid the bunching and choking? A rough surface on the needle (and by extension, the bodkin point) catches the fibers of the cloth or padding, causing more resistance - at least in my mind.

      @TheCoffeehound@TheCoffeehound4 жыл бұрын
    • @@TheCoffeehound Absolutely, and tailors generally have their favourite brands of needles. I have tried the special coated ones, but my favourites are John James' Betweens - they have the perfect mix of low resistance but still some (for control). However, if I handsew dense cotton, linen or anything that is tight and grippy, those modern low-friction coated ones are the way to go. (Funny detail: The loop end of the needle is also sharpened a bit, for better control on a metal thimble. Thus, I cringe every time I see someone sewing without a thimble. It has to be used for proper technique.)

      @Nemioke@Nemioke4 жыл бұрын
    • @@Nemioke callouses help if you can't find a thimble, or use a scrap of linen over the thumb or index finger. But I am by no means a tailor, just a poor guy who , shoddily, mends his own clothes when necessary.

      @blairbuskirk5460@blairbuskirk54604 жыл бұрын
    • @@blairbuskirk5460 They really don't help - as the part you use for sewing with a correct technique isn't on the skin part. You never push with a fingertip or even a side - the correct contact point is pretty much dead-on on the nail and flesh border. Using a thimble is paramount and it is the best thing one can do to have a consistent, good stitch. You use the same stitch on everything you sew. My worst thing has been when I pushed seriously to a triple seam, having a divot in my thimble to give up - and the tail of the needle went straight through the thimble and my finger, jamming on the other side. That really woke me up... (yes. ouch)

      @Nemioke@Nemioke4 жыл бұрын
    • After the fact, this makes perfect sense. you eed a cutting edge to cut. Needle bobkin just tried to push the interlocked fibers aside which gets increasingly harder. Still, ex ante, to me at least, I was thinking needle bobkin was going to do awesome on fiber. Go Jussi! Go Tod!

      @johnlovett8341@johnlovett83413 жыл бұрын
  • "I can conclude" That you want mail over gambeson If you can afford it

    @Ricochet1665@Ricochet16654 жыл бұрын
    • Which is what we see

      @wierdalien1@wierdalien14 жыл бұрын
    • @@wierdalien1 yes

      @steyn1775@steyn17754 жыл бұрын
    • Or gambeson over mail.

      @Glimmlampe1982@Glimmlampe19824 жыл бұрын
    • @@Glimmlampe1982 So that would be three layers correct?

      @dasparado@dasparado4 жыл бұрын
    • @@dasparado kind of, thin jacket, then mail, then gambeson. But I would rate the jacket as normal clothing (Which was kind of armor, compared to our modern 'rags')

      @Glimmlampe1982@Glimmlampe19824 жыл бұрын
  • The needle bodkin is called "perce-maille" in french, literrally : mail piercer

    @LycharVideo@LycharVideo4 жыл бұрын
    • they ain’t lie that perce-maille can pierce mail

      @jooot_6850@jooot_68502 жыл бұрын
  • Just heads up about your comment on ballistics gel. Ballistics gel is not a simulation of human tissue. It was developed as a rough average of all tissues in the body and provides a consistent test media to compare projectiles, along side real world statistical data. The biggest issue you run into when testing arrows against ballistics gel is that the gel is very tacky. You'll have arrows that have passed straight through boar only penetrate 12cm in gel.

    @griffin5226@griffin52264 жыл бұрын
    • Useful to know, thanks.

      @2bingtim@2bingtim4 жыл бұрын
    • Damn KZhead is full is smart people. See this is what I come here for 👍🏻

      @millanferende6723@millanferende67232 жыл бұрын
  • skallagrim: fixes his targets with straps Tod: just nails it xD

    @feanororonar5037@feanororonar50374 жыл бұрын
    • I like how he used a 6 inch nail to. Massively over kill lol

      @mranonymous6156@mranonymous61564 жыл бұрын
    • Yeah, when I watched I had no idea why Skallagrim didn't just nail the gel in place. Maybe he was too afraid to dent his swords?

      @Nardypants@Nardypants4 жыл бұрын
    • @@Nardypants to be fair, the type of force Skall was applying (shear force) is more likely to tear when nailed: imagine tugging on it cross ways. Also, Skall said he wasnt that smart.

      @yesacwerdna@yesacwerdna4 жыл бұрын
    • Pun intended? :P

      @Katniss218@Katniss2184 жыл бұрын
    • @@yesacwerdna It wouldn't have sheared away if the cloth he was testing was nailed down like Tod did, almost none of his swords went through the cloth anyway!

      @Nardypants@Nardypants4 жыл бұрын
  • I greatly admire how Tod will say there are simply things we don't know. So many people make wild claims to know exactly how things are made of were used and that's just not the case. My hat's off to both Tod's skill as a craftsman AND a historian

    @lancerandall3556@lancerandall35562 жыл бұрын
  • Among other things, this also demonstrates why you'd want to wear cloth armor ON TOP OF mail for added protection.

    @MikkoKuusirati@MikkoKuusirati4 жыл бұрын
    • Absolutely.

      @beardedbjorn5520@beardedbjorn55204 жыл бұрын
    • I'm sure in their is a few ways of wearing armor. Most common from middle age paintings its mail on top of gambison and a shirt or something to show who was your lord was on top of your mail. Like a banner.

      @josephgillilan3548@josephgillilan35484 жыл бұрын
    • I would have liked to see him test maille + gambeson.

      @overlorddante@overlorddante4 жыл бұрын
    • It would be hotter than hell in that thing

      @ironymaiden1089@ironymaiden10894 жыл бұрын
    • Yeah hot. But would you rather be hot than dead lol. But winter is probably good for armour cause gambison varies in thickness.

      @josephgillilan3548@josephgillilan35484 жыл бұрын
  • I found myself thinking, while watching his, of how similar this is to a tank crew switching between tank rounds based on the type of target they're trying to engage...

    @Tsototar@Tsototar4 жыл бұрын
    • To some extent I would imagine they did

      @tods_workshop@tods_workshop4 жыл бұрын
  • Tod, draw a scale on the wooden shaft of your bolts so you can measure the penetration without pulling everything apart!

    @Agar4Life@Agar4Life4 жыл бұрын
    • Brilliantly simple. Top marks

      @blairbuskirk5460@blairbuskirk54604 жыл бұрын
    • Brilliance

      @dynamicworlds1@dynamicworlds14 жыл бұрын
    • Or simply use differently-coloured pens (if re-using bolts) to draw around the initial impact point for a more accurate depth gauge..?

      @snafu2350@snafu23503 жыл бұрын
  • So, in conclusion, the safest thing is to be behind the crossbow...

    @Sleeping_Insomiac@Sleeping_Insomiac4 жыл бұрын
    • & if that's not possible a wall, if that's also not possible a shield would be of use.

      @blackdeath4eternity@blackdeath4eternity4 жыл бұрын
  • Todd has +10 bonus to smithing

    @Deathelement53@Deathelement534 жыл бұрын
  • 2:46 This is what makes this channel great.

    @CanalTremocos@CanalTremocos4 жыл бұрын
  • The platecutter appears to be a case of "we're not getting through either way, so we might aswell try and break something squishy behind the armor".

    @Tepid24@Tepid244 жыл бұрын
    • Weeb Extraordinaire I’d imagine it does a bit better against actual plate armour

      @SladetheBlade..@SladetheBlade..4 жыл бұрын
    • @@SladetheBlade.. I sort of doubt it tbh. If it bounced off mail I can't really see it punching through actual plate.

      @Tepid24@Tepid244 жыл бұрын
    • @@Tepid24 Yeah, I don't see why it wouldn't bounce there. Seems you would use those bolt heads for the same reason you would use blunt weapons against plate armored opponents

      @aetherblades2368@aetherblades23684 жыл бұрын
    • the shape of the plate cutter is very important. Perhaps he hasnt perfected the shape of the head. Alternatively maybe a plate cutter was never meant to penetrate and was meant to distribute the impact force to the target.

      @mdstmouse7@mdstmouse74 жыл бұрын
    • My though is that those heavy short-bodkin bolts would have been launched out of a much heavier crossbow when they were employed against plate. That 350lb crossbow is still pretty light, after all.

      @patrickdusablon2789@patrickdusablon27894 жыл бұрын
  • Some cheeky bloke: *wears mail over gambeson*

    @ethantsai8261@ethantsai82614 жыл бұрын
    • @@sewpungyow5154 that is exactly what everyone did (if they could aford mail that is) just one thing though, its debated if people wore plate over gamberson. Its believed they instead used the arming doublet which may or may not be padded

      @arthurgrmg2850@arthurgrmg28504 жыл бұрын
    • @@arthurgrmg2850 Though it can be said that the arming doublet is just a gambeson like armor with mail attached though it depends

      @sirsteam181@sirsteam1814 жыл бұрын
    • @@sirsteam181 from what i understand the doublet is much less thick than the gamberson, and it might have not been padded at all

      @arthurgrmg2850@arthurgrmg28504 жыл бұрын
    • @@arthurgrmg2850 The thing is with the Doublet it isn't one singular form with multiple iterations with examples such as what you mention and the thing I've mention though it both largely depends on when and where

      @sirsteam181@sirsteam1814 жыл бұрын
    • @@sirsteam181 indeed, there is a lot of discussion on the subject, a lot of "maybes" and few certainties

      @arthurgrmg2850@arthurgrmg28504 жыл бұрын
  • Yay! More materials testing! I love these videos Tod, they're interesting.

    @Alakazzam09@Alakazzam094 жыл бұрын
  • In Spanish, cotton is "algodón", even closer to the Arabic pronunciation. Great video, as ususal. I also love that you have the hands of an actual manual laborer, a guy hammering stuff. No manicures at Tod's.

    @rodrigodepierola@rodrigodepierola4 жыл бұрын
  • Very interesting results, and likely requires more testing. Fascinating! Great video as always Tod. I Look forward to the next one 👍

    @carvis3290@carvis32904 жыл бұрын
  • Todd showing his arrows off like a true beauty youtuber! That little detail made me giggle

    @AgentPedestrian@AgentPedestrian4 жыл бұрын
  • 8:37 "this is really gonna mess your day up", that's got to be the understatement of the movie :-)

    @Fastbikkel@Fastbikkel4 жыл бұрын
  • Once again you keep managing to put out really interesting stuff right as ive been pondering it. thank you!

    @danielmartin4596@danielmartin45964 жыл бұрын
  • Excellent work! Thanks for sharing. Cheers!

    @slackerpope@slackerpope4 жыл бұрын
  • I think the problem is that the fleash cutter is cutting the fibers while the shape of the needle is trying to push them apart and thus creates more resistance.

    @darkblood626@darkblood6264 жыл бұрын
  • You would probably get different results if you replace the foam with ballistics gel, I think flexible armour would do much better. Maybe an idea for a future video?

    @joops110@joops1104 жыл бұрын
    • Yep need a ballistics gel backing, or clay.

      @DuelPorpoise@DuelPorpoise4 жыл бұрын
    • Ando you also do not shoot the body nailed to the wall, too....

      @martinmarusinec6204@martinmarusinec62044 жыл бұрын
    • In a battlefield a Person with armor would also move in your direction and not stand still.

      @dario9107@dario91074 жыл бұрын
    • Ye the overall performance of the armour would probably change but this works well as a comparison of the bolts as the only variable for each armour type

      @bobdrenan4402@bobdrenan44024 жыл бұрын
    • Maybe or maybe not. Ballistic gel was designed to test bullets. When it comes to blades and arrows it tends to be too grippy and bouncy. Would be better to hang up a pig and put the armor on that.

      @originalamerican9396@originalamerican93964 жыл бұрын
  • I very much appreciate the "we don't exactly know how it worked, but we make do the best we can" attitude. Very down to earth. Thanks mate!

    @Dee77777@Dee777774 жыл бұрын
  • Glad this channel for saved. I love listening to Tod.

    @WrinkleRelease@WrinkleRelease4 жыл бұрын
  • 2:17 al qutn roughly means "the cotton" in spanish the word is related to "algodón" which... as you may have guessed, means cotton

    @Houseballey@Houseballey3 жыл бұрын
  • id be interested to see if sharpening the needle bodkin to have 90° chisel like edges would improve performance against fabric. its seems a big assumption that arrowheads wouldn't be well sharpened. sharpening your arrowheads would be like cleaning your rifle in modern times as a way to pass the time waiting for something to happen.

    @Erpyrikk@Erpyrikk4 жыл бұрын
    • Probably not always the case. If you're diligent enough to do it to your personal quiver then yes. But say if you are expected to do a lot of shooting, then you'd have wagons upon wagons worth of arrows (like Agincourt for instance, hence why he said munition) so l doubt they'd do that amount of work, especially after a tiring day of marching, battling or other exhausting work. After all most medieval armies aren't as disciplined as the roman legions.

      @2008davidkang@2008davidkang4 жыл бұрын
    • @@2008davidkang great points david

      @MrFiddleedee@MrFiddleedee4 жыл бұрын
    • @@2008davidkang it will still be interesting what difference a nicely sharpened and polished arrowhead does

      @Erpyrikk@Erpyrikk4 жыл бұрын
    • They would only be sharp for the first few shots though. After they had been fired back and forth a few times the edge would definitely be off. In some battles some arrows were potentially fired as many as 8 times.

      @gordonlawrence1448@gordonlawrence14484 жыл бұрын
    • @@gordonlawrence1448 Yep, I can imagine a 'porcupine' knight covered in arrows from the opposing side approaching a group of archers that would swarm him and pick off the arrows from him like a helper fish cleaning parasites from a whaleshark.

      @MrFiddleedee@MrFiddleedee4 жыл бұрын
  • love your enthusiasm Tod. interesting results!

    @dickorange3404@dickorange34044 жыл бұрын
  • Thankyou for doing these videos on experimental archeology, It keeps challenging the common wisdom that seems mainly to have come from movies. This sort of thing is both entertaining and informative.

    @ArmouryTerrain@ArmouryTerrain4 жыл бұрын
  • I had to keep going back to the beginning of the video to when you said, “raw cotton is this stuff, here!”. For whatever reason, I found the way you said that to be hilarious 😆

    @Aramis419@Aramis4194 жыл бұрын
    • same here, it was from a different cut and I did have a rather weird start

      @tods_workshop@tods_workshop4 жыл бұрын
  • Loved the video. my thoughts: the fleshcutter even though it looks larger, actually has a smaller surface area than the needle bodkin. a narrow plate that is 6 times wider than a round tip has only 2/3 the striking surface area. additionally, since it cuts a wide opening, the shaft has no issue following through. would be interesting to see a test against heavy 13th century armour. in norwegian sources dated around 1270, a knight was armoured thus: one layer of "soft linen aketon", then over that maille, and over that again soft linen aketon, but without arm protection. we also have a source for gambeson construction dated from between 1170-1270, namely the bussy saint martin sleeve. it is constructed like this: brown taffeta silk, 34 x 39-48 threads/cm white linen canvas 24x26 threads/cm cotton stuffing. the protection varies on the upper and lower part of the sleeve. upper arm: silk - cotton - 2 layers of linen - cotton -silk lower arm: silk - cotton - cotton - silk there was no torso with the sleeve, but i think it's reasonable to assume it is either the same construction as the upper arm, but double aketons. e.g: aketon 1 - aketon 2 or more layers of linen is sown inbetween the cotton filling. possible a triple layer like: silk - cotton - 2x linen - cotton - 2x linen - cotton - silk

    @Dejawolfs@Dejawolfs4 жыл бұрын
    • thanks for posting this info very interesting.

      @blackdeath4eternity@blackdeath4eternity4 жыл бұрын
  • I always love watching Tod's experiments and hearing his reasoning behind things. Historically accurate or not, this is fascinating stuff. I'm sure they tested things like this back then as well; it would be really cool if we could bring back some of the weapon developers from those times and watch them and Tod talk about designs and try things out.

    @cheeseyoger@cheeseyoger3 жыл бұрын
  • Thanks for all the work you have put into your videos!

    @GarHarman@GarHarman4 жыл бұрын
  • Hi, love the video. Really appreciate these experiments you're doing. I was just wondering what was the 15th century source you mentioned for the gambeson? I was very intrigued to hear about the use of doeskin.

    @42Solomon@42Solomon4 жыл бұрын
    • Ordinances of Louis XI of France, 1461-1483

      @Grymm23@Grymm234 жыл бұрын
    • archive.org/stream/armourerhiscraft00ffouuoft#page/86/mode/2up

      @Grymm23@Grymm234 жыл бұрын
    • Thanks Grymm

      @42Solomon@42Solomon4 жыл бұрын
  • this reminds me of a video by ola onsrud "knight in the13th century" in which he discribes a thinner aketon under the mail and a thicker gambeson over the mail and also says you could also have an aketon under gambeson without mail

    @jacobrigby3172@jacobrigby31724 жыл бұрын
  • This matches very well with what the Scythians used to shoot, against enemies that probably mostly had textile armor: broad-bladed arrow heads with long cutting surfaces.

    @tl8211@tl82114 жыл бұрын
  • Great video and research! Just what I needed while 'sheltering in place'.

    @leoscheibelhut940@leoscheibelhut9404 жыл бұрын
  • I'd sell organs to be able to afford one of Tods crossbows. Maybe not *my* organs, but organs all the same.

    @Aconitum_napellus@Aconitum_napellus4 жыл бұрын
    • Get organised & take a job in a music shop . . .

      @loddude5706@loddude57064 жыл бұрын
  • Great video but I have a question. Could you test what would happen if someone wore Mail over a Gambeson? Would this make the person survive all types of those bolts?

    @CzeslawPL@CzeslawPL4 жыл бұрын
    • You'd probably do the reverse. For similar reasons as that gambesons were sometimes worn over plate (see the arrow test videos). In fact, people probably wore it over plate because they'd already been wearing it over mail.

      @earthknight60@earthknight604 жыл бұрын
    • Myoll Tülvür was wondering exactly that

      @RicardoEP@RicardoEP4 жыл бұрын
    • There are quite a few Crusader accounts where knights so equipped would look like pincushions with how many arrows were caught in their armor after a battle. But yes, I'd expect that to handle both the needle bodkin and the broadhead just fine. The bodkin's penetration would likely be lower than against the gambeson alone, even, thanks to the maille slowing it down a bit even before it starts tangling in the fibers.

      @RagnarLodbrok1@RagnarLodbrok14 жыл бұрын
    • He would first have to swap out that prod on the crossbow with a more efficient composite one and use a proper, narrow type 16 arrowhead and a needle bodkin narrow around the shoulder. They will not survive I he did it right. You have to ask yourself why he didn't do this and said "I was hoping it would be defeated by that" at 07:16. That is what is called bias.

      @PolluxA@PolluxA4 жыл бұрын
    • @@earthknight60 Though it was stated that it was in French Fashion to do it like that but I can see it either way with gambeson underneath or over top given context

      @sirsteam181@sirsteam1814 жыл бұрын
  • Great experiment. Clear and methodical. Thanks

    @JoJeck@JoJeck4 жыл бұрын
  • It's videos like this that have made me completely reevaluate some of the assumptions I've had since I was little, fantastic work as always! I'm now very interested in seeing something like a brigandine tested and how the layers of fabric and steel plates interact with different impacts.

    @Vespuchian@Vespuchian4 жыл бұрын
  • In central and Eastern Europe as well as in Asia people would use silk for their textile armors. I imagine that would make them even more effective. In the XVI century there are also mentions of "bulletproof" (bullet-resistant) padded zupans made from layers of carded silk.

    @kamilszadkowski8864@kamilszadkowski88644 жыл бұрын
  • Most awesome vid, as always. The Lübeck and Stendal acetons are, in fact, padded with raw cotton btw :)

    @GermanSwordMaster@GermanSwordMaster4 жыл бұрын
  • I LOVE these videos. Not only educational but very entertaining. Subscribed

    @drax1s729@drax1s7294 жыл бұрын
  • thanks tod! this is a really cool vid. kind of reminds of how modern tanks uses different types of rounds for different targets.

    @lobstereleven4610@lobstereleven46104 жыл бұрын
  • The logic conclusion would be to combine the chain mail and the fabric, since they seen to complement each other.

    @EndrewsXeudon@EndrewsXeudon4 жыл бұрын
    • Also very bulky, making it more difficult to move

      @theophrastusbombastusvanho849@theophrastusbombastusvanho8494 жыл бұрын
    • @@theophrastusbombastusvanho849 Seeing how People in plate can move around like its nothing I can assume its not that detrimental to wear mail over textile armor

      @sirsteam181@sirsteam1814 жыл бұрын
    • @@sirsteam181 mail hangs and weighs you down, proper full plate supports itself somewhat and its less you have to burden alone.

      @Taos87@Taos874 жыл бұрын
    • @@Taos87 If your mail hangs you don't know how to wear mail. It's not wore like a bedsheet as a kid, but properly tailored and tightened. You neber wear plate alone, there's always the gambeson/mail combo underneath, that's what makes you a walking tank.

      @scorpixel1866@scorpixel18664 жыл бұрын
  • Well if the outer layer is deer hide, the broad head would slice right through it as it enters. Even if it enters at a slight angle...The needle head needs to hit dead on to get the full effect..Slightly off center and you're wasting alot of energy realigning the bolt as it enters and losing some penetration power

    @50StichesSteel@50StichesSteel4 жыл бұрын
  • Excellent film. Those were interesting results. Thanks

    @eatman6511@eatman651127 күн бұрын
  • Keep up the good work Tod.

    @MoldyHair@MoldyHair4 жыл бұрын
  • This was exactly what I expected. - Your "flesh arrow" is too wide if it is suppose to be a type 16 arrowhead. Narrow the arrowhead down and it will go through. So is the needle bodkin at the widest point right in front of the shoulder. - The prod on that crossbow is made of steel. Crossbows from this time period often had a composite prod. This will give you ahigher velocity for the same draw weight. To tests a composite prod of 350lb would probably require a steel prod of something like 450lb. You would have to experiment to get it right by shooting the crossbows over a chronograph. Just the slightest drop in velocity will cause the the kinetic energy on impact to drop significantly. - Put flesh behind the armour.

    @PolluxA@PolluxA4 жыл бұрын
  • The way you put the bolts on your palm at 0:18 suggests you've had a lot of experience with the autofocus not doing what you want...

    @ArifRWinandar@ArifRWinandar4 жыл бұрын
    • Oh good point, I thought it was for contrast against his shirt.

      @blacksquirrel4008@blacksquirrel40084 жыл бұрын
    • Everyone dose that on KZhead. It's absolutely fine and the right thing to do if you want to get the camera focused on a small object instead of your face. Most cameras have face detection and focus on a face if on is in frame.

      @s.w.4409@s.w.44094 жыл бұрын
  • this was super interesting! thanks again Tod!

    @DonatoVicenti@DonatoVicenti4 жыл бұрын
  • Looking at your results; I, as one of the unwashed masses that has done absolutely no research on the subject, have a question/theory about the observed results of the "plate cutter" head. Is it possible that the plate cutter head is meant to be an anti-armor weapon in the same manner as a mace or a hammer, in that it is supposed to provide blunt force trauma through the armor instead of actually penetrating it?

    @blah007001@blah0070014 жыл бұрын
    • Not sure if you ever found an answer to this, but no, the logic of the plate cutter is a bit different. It’s very hard to pierce metal with a tip like the needle bodkin, the metal deforms and holds on very tight to what is trying to push through it. But when you cut the metal with an X shape like the edges of the plate cutter, those triangular points get pushed out of the way much easier, giving you your desired penetration. Tod himself taught me this, actually: kzhead.info/sun/gMene9aOZ5N6nac/bejne.html

      @Benzy670@Benzy6703 жыл бұрын
  • I am curious if the half-moon head would do any different

    @benjaminduiker@benjaminduiker4 жыл бұрын
    • Probably simular to the flat head, but worse.

      @darthplagueis13@darthplagueis134 жыл бұрын
    • Darthplagueis13 I agree, but the armor cutter didn’t work as well as I thought it would. I just wonder if they knew something we don’t.

      @benjaminduiker@benjaminduiker4 жыл бұрын
  • This is becoming my favorite channel on you tube tod is awesome at all things bow arrow and I love the older weaponry from are past.keep up the great work we all love these video's so entertaining and educational.

    @jakeroark570@jakeroark5704 жыл бұрын
  • Another great video! Keep them coming please.

    @mikemcginley6309@mikemcginley63094 жыл бұрын
  • I also found this to be interesting

    @VSO_Gun_Channel@VSO_Gun_Channel4 жыл бұрын
  • indeed the word "Coton" comes from the arabic word "Kutn" (prefix "Al"=the).

    @darthcalanil5333@darthcalanil53334 жыл бұрын
    • In spanish is algodón arabic to

      @pabloolivero2783@pabloolivero27834 жыл бұрын
    • Jesus loves you all so much. Please repent to go to Heaven. Repent = forgive all, abandon sin and follow Jesus Christ's teachings ❤

      @darkalley8595@darkalley85954 жыл бұрын
    • @@darkalley8595 what the fuck do we have to repent for?

      @davidribeiro1064@davidribeiro10644 жыл бұрын
    • Dark Alley I pray to Zeus for your heretic teachings because I love you, brother. ❤️ making an offering to Him and the twelve gods before sun down to cease his anger.

      @thomaszhang3101@thomaszhang31014 жыл бұрын
    • @@thomaszhang3101 He is a monotheistic barbarian! He does not deserve Zeus all-father's blessing. He will never see Elysia.

      @jorgejohnson875@jorgejohnson8754 жыл бұрын
  • Surprising, but it makes total sense when you think about it. Great video!

    @5chr4pn3ll@5chr4pn3ll4 жыл бұрын
  • Thank you very much, great content as always, Tod

    @PandemicalShade@PandemicalShade4 жыл бұрын
  • So.....let's say that wearing mail over (or under) a heavy fabric armour like a gambeson might be a good combination if you want to protect yoursef against the 2 most effective head-types, according to this specific test.

    @giuseppepuglisi3980@giuseppepuglisi39804 жыл бұрын
    • That's what it look like, but we should also consider if the weight is excessive and if can cause overeating. A quanto pare si, chissà quale sarebbe il peso complessivo, però, e se soprattutto non si rischi di riscaldarsi troppo facendo attività fisica.

      @serindas@serindas4 жыл бұрын
    • I was under the impression that it was normal to wear a gambeson under mail or plate rather than a thinner jack. Could be entirely wrong of course.

      @Vespuchian@Vespuchian4 жыл бұрын
    • @@serindas Surely the excessive weight is caused by the overeating! We'll assume you mean overheating. :)

      @stewartsherwood7769@stewartsherwood77694 жыл бұрын
    • @@stewartsherwood7769 XD my bad, i've eaten the h.

      @serindas@serindas4 жыл бұрын
    • Wearing textile armor over mail and coat of plate is well documented in 13th century. Look at this translation of a 1250 norwegian book called The king's mirror (page 217-220). archive.org/details/kingsmirrorspecu00konuuoft/page/216/mode/2up

      @m.s.79@m.s.794 жыл бұрын
  • Very interesting experiment, pity I could only mod this up once. :-) So the most effective defense is a layered or padded jack over a mail shirt, with a thin aketon underneath.Which explains why we see those into the age of cheap mass manufactured plate in the 1470s.

    @ChristianThePagan@ChristianThePagan4 жыл бұрын
  • I love these experiments and the insights they give us.

    @chaswalker2038@chaswalker20384 жыл бұрын
  • Great video, fun to watch! One thing that you should probably want to try is an Gambeson ON TOP of mail armor. According to Medieval Byzantine manuals such as the Sylologe Tacticorum Roman cataphracts and even lancers were supposed to wear padded armor on top of metal armor.

    @Basileios1974@Basileios19742 жыл бұрын
  • 2:15 no worries you are using a word which has two letters you don't have in your alphabet

    @napolien1310@napolien13104 жыл бұрын
  • This Episode of Tod's Workshop is sponsored by RAID Shadow Viral Masks. Nothing will be as it was before. Over 56 hundred layers, and if you buy today you get two layers for free! Download now!

    @hektorforever@hektorforever4 жыл бұрын
  • Doing research for D&D crossbows (for my rogue sniper) and found your videos very informative and entertaining. Instant sub.

    @Cyxodus@Cyxodus4 жыл бұрын
  • I don’t even bother with other channels videos regarding arms and armor, anymore. Tod for the definitive win😎

    @paulmears5330@paulmears53303 жыл бұрын
  • Every now and then I find a new, fascinating channel. This is the latest one.

    @Argumemnon@Argumemnon4 жыл бұрын
  • I love the music at the end !

    @cepateoignons9077@cepateoignons90773 жыл бұрын
  • Man I love this channel. I could watch stuff like this all day! :D

    @pookiipower435@pookiipower4354 жыл бұрын
  • Super glad you got your channel back! You should ask some of the other KZheadrs to put the word out that you're back.

    @adambielen8996@adambielen89964 жыл бұрын
  • Food for thought, thanks Tod.

    @GodofAnger2002@GodofAnger20024 жыл бұрын
  • Fantastic video! Thanks for all the hard work and great content! :)

    @discochoir@discochoir4 жыл бұрын
  • Great video! I was just as surprised as you. Thank you!

    @justanothercaptain6566@justanothercaptain65664 жыл бұрын
  • That was just plain cool as hell Tod.

    @ludecom-cz1wz@ludecom-cz1wz4 жыл бұрын
  • Fascinating!!! Thank you!

    @Smallathe@Smallathe4 жыл бұрын
  • Materials made of fibres tend to have great torsion strength, but low shearing resistance. We also see this with modern kevlar. While useful at stopping bullets up to a certain point, kevlar is useless against arrows fitted with cutting heads; such as broad-heads.

    @jaredmills06@jaredmills062 жыл бұрын
  • Man I love this channel.

    @MarekDohojda@MarekDohojda4 жыл бұрын
  • Love videos like this, fascinating results! Very interesting to see how the needle bodkin worked. Would love to see a vide of the "plate cutter" bodkin actually tested against some plate armour.

    @SwitchFeathers@SwitchFeathers4 жыл бұрын
  • Well done ! Very interesting ! Thanks !

    @jameskelman9856@jameskelman98564 жыл бұрын
  • love it to bits, as always, was hoping you'd do padding OVER mail too. but these three are indeed interesting as is

    @airnt@airnt4 жыл бұрын
  • great video! I kind of thought of these outcomes. I have heard that the needle Botkin was designed specifically to destroy the rings of chainmail but never heard of it being designed to destroy fabric.

    @lukasbocker6740@lukasbocker67404 жыл бұрын
  • Great vid! Stay safe and well mate!

    @flying0graysons@flying0graysons4 жыл бұрын
  • What I like about your videos: Informative and - best of all - you are HONEST about what you do. Thank you.

    @martinroth1263@martinroth12634 жыл бұрын
    • Thanks and I really try to say it how I see it; otherwies I just add to the layers of confusion

      @tods_workshop@tods_workshop4 жыл бұрын
  • The experiment was awesome, but what truly impressed me was your accuracy while firing lol.

    @KWFlange@KWFlange4 жыл бұрын
  • fascinating results, really show how these were probably used, not what you'd expect at first sight

    @ivyssauro123@ivyssauro1234 жыл бұрын
  • more experiments and mythbuster videos! great, great great!

    @Chrisreynolds0724199@Chrisreynolds07241993 жыл бұрын
  • Fascinating stuff. Some of the tests expected, some counter-intuitive. Bloody wonderfull. Keep up the good work, Tod. Flaxen Saxon.

    @fancymcclean6210@fancymcclean62104 жыл бұрын
    • Thank you - appreciated

      @tods_workshop@tods_workshop4 жыл бұрын
  • Thanks for the experiments Tod Stay healthy

    @BY-bj6ic@BY-bj6ic4 жыл бұрын
  • Thanks for an excellent presentation and experiment. Regardless of any historical imperfections, it is valid and interesting information. Watching several of your experiments has really brought home to me the importance that volume of fire must have had in these medieval battles. It's becoming clear the great extent to which archery would have caused cumulative damage or the occasional lucky shot that took a warrior in armor out of the battle.

    @jamesmiddleton6464@jamesmiddleton64644 жыл бұрын
  • Yes, the words Gambeson and Aketon both come from the words for cotton undarmors/primary armors in use in the 10th-13th centuries in the Byzantine and Arabic sphere. In the case of Gambeson it's a horrendous butchering of the word *Vamvakion* from *Vamvax* (Cotton). The *Vamvakion* was a cotton *Kavadion* (the exact same thing, but in cotton or linen/wool). Doeskin over 30 layers is also relatively similar to what the Romans record, which is Libyan Hide (modern Morroccan Goatskin is the closest) over linen "one or two finger widths in thickness". The difference was the Romans didn't sew the "Libyan Hide" directly onto the garment, but wore it as another layer decorated with *Podones* ("Paws") which is the decorative scallops we see sticking out under metal armor in the art. So taking a 15th century source on how to make a gambeson and interpolating it back to 1250 seems reasonable considering we have evidence for this practice of using an animal hide over linen going as far back as Classical Antiquity. Especially considering availability of material between 1250 and 1400 should be reasonably the same in Western Europe. Great video! I really wanna see someone test Hunnic/Avar/etc. Trilobate heads (three-bladed) against fabric armor. They tear improperly made shields apart as the research in "The North in the Shadow of the Roman Empire" showed.

    @nuancedhistory9729@nuancedhistory97294 жыл бұрын
  • @Tod's Workshop Thanks for the awesome video. As some other commentators already said, it would be neat to see the same test at various ranges since it would be logical to expect the bolts to penetrate differently at different range. Also, what I got from your video is that if I was to be a solder at a time where those armour and bolt types existed, I should probably wear both (chainmail over some gambeson) to be better protected! :D Though, that would probably still hurt quite a bit (especially if very close)!

    @ragnarok700@ragnarok7003 жыл бұрын
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