Flying Ridges and Mountain Passes - good training and prep cuts risks - California - ATC
Flying this close to jagged rocks is intimidating to say the least…
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Mountain Flying Training with Jason Miller was awesome!
This is an other of many episodes that I am happy to share from the 2015 workshop!
ADDED CONTEXT:
Reminder that for this series I was a student pilot and a filmmaker - I was not acting as Pilot in Command.
Part of the story is our struggle to make a fairly epic production; it was hard, and it was part of the deal. Failing to get the live iPad feed for what I considered to be the most important part of the flight was a blow. I wanted to explain why we went from live video of the iPad for all the other episodes in this series (and the first half of this episode) to having only still screen grabs for the Buck Eye Pass adventure.
RELATED EPISODE LINKS:
Birth of a HUGE Wild Fire:
• Birth of a HUGE Wild F...
Landing at 8,500 ft Density Altitude:
• Landing at 8,500 ft De...
Survival after Forced Landing:
• Survival after Forced ...
Search and Rescue friendly Flight Plans + PLBs:
• After FORCED LANDING, ...
Hypoxia Symptoms and Avoidance
• Hypoxia Symptoms and A...
Take Off at 8,000 ft Density Altitude
• Take Off at 8,000 ft D...
(and MORE coming, so keep an eye on the channel)
If you've ever considered doing a mountain check out, I HIGHLY recommend giving Jason a shout!
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FLIGHT CHOPS DISCLAIMER:
I am a "weekend warrior" private pilot, I fly for fun with no intentions of going commercial. I have had my PPL for over 15 years, but still consider each flight a learning experience - I generally take detailed notes after each flight to remind myself what went well or what I could do to improve.... Having the GoPro cameras to record flights like this is invaluable. I find these self analysis videos very helpful in my constant quest to improve, and am happy to share. Feedback is invited; however, please keep it positive.
Mountain Wave Turbulence is no joke. Such a beautiful place to fly with so many hidden dangers. Very cool video with a lot of good information!
+steveo1kinevo - Thanks Buddy! And yes, There is a lot to know about mountain flying - I have lots to learn about this stuff!
@steveo1kinevo Wtf would you know about mountain flying? You fly over swampland and the ocean. If you’re afraid of danger, don’t be a pilot. Wimpy dork
Intercutting the explanation of air flow like water over rocks with the footage of the stream was super effective. Also the arrows on the sectionals thru Buckeye Pass. And the footage of the terrain was an emotional grab - I was gulping hard. Brainy content AND limbic system stimulation - it don't get no better. Well done!
+Woodrow The Strat - thanks for this awesome comment! I sent it to Stuart who was nice enough to let me use his beautiful river footage from India.
Just learned a crap ton! Thanks Steve & Jason.
Those mountains were beautiful! However, I could feel your apprehension. I really felt as though I was right there in the plane, with you guys. Great adventure! Keep safe. : )
Another amazing episode of Flight Chops!!! Really great editing, great music and very very informative! Thank you very much for making these!!
Loving this Mountain Flying series. I've learned quite a bit.
There is so much value in your videos. I appreciate your work
Just stumbled on your channel on a bit of an excursion looking up mountain flying (I'm a flat-lander midwesterner getting started). Was surprised to hear Jason Miller's voice right off the get-go. Got my subscription just from that 😎
This is the best video showing real life mountain flying with great instructions. Great job and huge thanks for sharing this! Safe flying!
Very informative video as usual. I'm gearing up to fly back in Alaska and it's always a challenge. Great video FlightChops
Well done!
I'm going to be doing a lot of flying in this area at low level this summer. I really appreciate you uploading these videos.
Amazing. Thanks for sharing this.
You can learn a lot from your videos. Keep it up!
Intense! Interesting listening to the importance of flying on the correct side of the ridges. I really liked the way the instructor explained how to look at air/wind and compared it to water in the last video you did in the mountains. It will help as I think about things while flying. Thanks for another great video.
Keep up the great work. Another fab video with important messages.
Scary stuff. Well done.
Great video with extremely important information. This is why I think gliding (especially in mountainous terrain) is one of the best things to know how to do as a pilot. We must learn all of this stuff just to stay up, alive, and make it back to the airport. I was taught that whenever faced with sinking air, it is better to loose a bit of altitude aby increase downwards pitch and speed, to get out of the downdraft as quick as possible. Thanks again Steve! Would love to see you get back into gliding and do some videos!
This is one of the coolest videos I've seen. Good work.
great stuff, I live in northern bc, and will be flying in my back yard, I know I am very worry of fast moving water, combining the two in concept, is a great way to see or feel what's going on and the best place to be, thank you
Wow! That was awesome. Thanks so much for sharing this. Looks really quite terrifying. I'm thinking about flying to Austria and/or Italy some time, across the Alps, and this confirmed that I'll have to get some special mountain-flying training before even trying.
As someone who once had a private pilot's licence this is one of the best instructional videos I've seen. It gives me the yearning to back in the left hand seat but sadly I don't think my bank manager would be too pleased.
This is great. Really pleased you're giving us more of the mountain flying course.
+Chris Fowler - happy to share
Another great video as always man! Seeing a flighchops video in the sub feed makes any day better :)
So true!
+Josh McCorquodale If Flight Chops subbed to me, I would die of amazement!
Great stuff! And I recognized areas where I backpack 👍🏼
Cool, as always. :-) I had an excellent example of mountain updrafts and downdrafts yesterday. In the downdraft I was holding altitude - maybe 50 fpm climb - at full power in a Cherokee 140. In the updraft, 1700 fpm.
Such a good shots! Very nice episode
yikes .. amazing and challenging to say the least ,, great job ,, and balls !!
Wow.. That looked intense.
Very nice material here. Man, this looks like you're learning to fly all over again.
Wow! great episode!!
Great stuff!!!! Just moved from Florida to Cali and surrounded by mountains. I was briefly in the San Carlos Flight Club while I was living in the San Carlos area was this the Mountain course to Truckee that was being advertised back in June I believe? I almost jumped on it but I had to move to San Diego for work.
Very informative. We all benefit from these videos.
That was intense! I'm going to have to learn that stuff if I am ever to return to my fledgling nest PAO in my own aircraft. Granted, an RV-8 will have better visibility and performance (maybe)... but man, I got a lot to learn over a lot of years! Thanks for sharing, as always.
I am going to be studying water over Rapids now!
this video is great! might have even saved my life. I'm a new pilot flying in Arizona with only about 60 hours under my belt. went flying over some mountains today and experienced "descending while in climb attitude/power." not a very nice feeling with mountains underneath you. at first, thought it was due to low pressure high temp and high altitude. now i know it was because of the downdrafts over the mountain ridge. never stop learning thanks flight chops !!
Amazing video. I've never seen those concepts explained anywhere as well as here.
+1dgram - I really appreciate this feedback - we worked hard to get the messaging in this one right.
Wow! Beautiful scenery, but I have to admit I felt a little nervous. Some really good info in there too.
+Jimmy Tidmore felt the same way for sure!
Great stuff! Waves are awesome, when flown in a glider at least. There's nothing quite like starting at 2-3000' and stopping at the oxygen limit (11500' here in Norway), holding altitude all day without an engine. And if you got O2, getting a climb from CTR (we don't have class A above 180 here) to the top of the wave is even more awesome. A few guys visiting our club managed FL225 this September. Who needs thermals anyways!
Amazing video. Thank you for sharing. :)
+1 Nerd cred for the Krull reference lol :D
I learned to fly on the Front Range of the Rockies, and I have always felt more comfortable in the mountains than over flat land, not the least reason being visual nav is easy once you know all the peaks and passes. However, mountain wave or high winds or obscuration are no joke and there are many gorgeous days when I chose the plains over the peaks because the conditions were, or might have become, sketchy. One thing I always had with me, and carry with me to this day, is a current DeLorme topo atlas of wherever I am flying or driving. The elevation info and detail of every little valley, canyon, pass and saddle are invaluable, and cheap insurance in areas you don't fly, or drive, in often.
New student pilot looking for information about mountain flying. Found this awesome video. Looking to cross the Cascades to Eastern Washington. Very helpful and points out key concepts. Keep those videos coming! #BoseA20
Good lesson. You might cover the turn back, should that become necessary. We need to emphasize that we have more vertical space than horizontal space available. We need to emphasize that neutral dynamic stability means the airplane cannot stall itself. We need to understand that we can make a 1g turn of any bank angle necessary to miss the opposite ridge so long as we release all back pressure on the yoke. This energy management turn is the safest way to turn back insuring no stall.
Steve, today I passed my private pilot checkride. I just wanted to thank you for all the videos you post! They really helped a lot!
+Nolan Elrod - Super awesome man! Thanks for the great feedback,and Congrats! I'm just shutting down after the crazy long day that is "new video publish day" but I had to reply to this one before going offline :)
+FlightChops I'd like to extend an invite to fly with you if you're ever in the Indianapolis area. I fly a 1978 Piper archer 2
Did a flight over Lake Tahoe today and man was it crazy
Can you make a video about the things in your flight bag. great video
Awesome stuff my friend!~John
beautiful videos thank you very much! for All That information! yes! you're lucky and you are privileged. in California. it is good to fly in America; even to pass a training as a pilot. Flying Ridges and Mountain Passes - good training and prep cuts Risks - California - ATC
Great training video. Out here on the West coast every pilot should really pay attention to the mountains they fly near. There are many pilots out here who are scared to fly over them and take the long Southern route and sweat going over the lower Tehachapi mountains. Your video is perfect. Keep up the good work.
+Richard Krentz - friendly feedback appreciated !
Steve rocking that Rockband shirt! LOOVEE ITT CHEEAHH
+GSOaviator - drums! What do you play?
I played drums, but unfortunately not long enough to get proficient at it :/ Just saw you rocking that and thought that's pretty old-school badass!
That's craziness
Very cool video. I'm going for a discovery flight to see if pursuing a license is something I want to do. I don't think flying through mountains is something I could ever stomach though...
You do have some serious hills over there...
Looks like a beautiful place to fly, reminds me a lot of Colorado. Out of curiosity, what were the winds aloft when you went up to shoot this video? Much more than about 25 knots over the peaks here (northern New Mexico) and the mechanical turbulence gets pretty gnarly, even if surface winds at home are only gusting to 16. Stay safe!
Was there a hint to the next video there at the end? If I recall you mentioned you wanted to try glider towing at some point and I'm pretty sure there's a glider under tow in the last shot. Really cool video with a lot of good information, really enjoyed it.
+Richard Speir (Barotgus) - :)
Very intense.......................
Awesome
Great video. Noob question but could have that plane flown over the mountains if you wanted to ? Just wanted to say also that I've never flown a plane, don't intend to but I really enjoy your videos. The quality and production is great. Keep it up and stay safe.
To go over the mountains, they would have wanted ideally wanted to clear them by 2000'. Those planes were likely near their maximum altitude already and the people would also have required oxygen if they climbed much higher.
Thanks guys.
Splendid view of the mountains! Thanks! You should try to fly there early in the mornings (in spring or autumn). You literally see the moving air with some clouds and fogs and you may see the waves if you are lucky with some fog. For training purpose this video is useless as you had to feel how to get in and fall out of an air current. (don't try to lure some people from flatland flying into mountain flying "trap" without an local flying instructor) It's a shock if you lose your lift most instanly for the first time and than to gain it back. (it isn't as dangerous in a fixed wing as in flex wing)
What ski resort was that, great vid btw.
And yet another great video Steve. Well done. I saw a new element on this one that I've never seen you use before. The computer animation was excellent. Where did you get that and what software did you use?
+Vincent Jobson - Thanks - I've actually used the 3D animations in a few videos when needed - check out the Extra300 series, and the tail wheel "scaring myself" video - I used it to illustrate a ground loop in a Stearman. my friend Paul does them for me his company is called AlphaChannelFX
+FlightChops who does your music. You really should do a series on some of the resources you use. You make killer videos man.
+Vincent Jobson - Thanks! If you look in the description you'll see the link to my music producer friend Chris from "BigHonkinSpaceShip" (I'd put it here but KZhead spam filters comments with links) Chris is awesome! I also use PremiumBeat and Pond5 to find music - but the "Flight Chops" stinger / theme was done by Chris, and the first track you hear in this one that I also use in all the mountain flying episodes was composed by Chris.
That was amazing! One question though, if you find yourself in a downdraft on one side of the ridge, can you safely execute a transition to the other side of the valley and find the updraft draft?
Yes. The safest maneuver is to turn back down drainage with whatever bank will achieve that while releasing all back pressure on the yoke. Lots of vertical space to turn to, while horizontal space is limited. Getting through is not guaranteed, especially up a ridge that changes orientation to prevailing wind. Changing to the other ridge of a drainage going up to the pass gets more restricted as we continue. Turn back must be executed prior to running out of both horizontal and vertical space available.
James is the Skyler Chad of aviation video production.
I would recommend getting a matte screen protector for your iPads. They stop the glear and hardly show fingerprints
We glider pilots use ridge lift to either gain altitude or increase our cross country speed. Adding water ballast to the sailplane will help dampen the turbulence and allow greater speeds.
#BoseA20
Nice. My palms got sweaty watching you thread your way through there. I've heard that staying on the downwind side of a valley also helps you in the case you need to do a 180 (so your groundspeed is lowered while turning around). Did you guys discuss that?
+Eliot Williams The NTSB report of this accident discusses the issue in the cityscape environment. www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NTSB_Issues_Final_Report_on_Manhattan_Plane_Crash_that_Killed_Yankee_Pitcher.aspx
+Eliot Williams - Thanks Eliot. We didn't discuss that - I'll ask Jason. And your episode is in the pipe line - we'll be releasing that one this summer :) that bay tour at dusk was epic. (but don't worry - I'll be sending you a rough cut to sign off on before we publish anything :)
+Eliot Williams If the winds are paralleling a ridge and you're in a narrow valley then flying downwind near a ridge is recommended for that reason. But if the winds are perpendicular to the ridge you want to fly near the windward / rising air side. If rising air is available, use it; in either case, minimize the turnaround space required. Sparky Imeson's "Mountain Flying Guide" covers these topics well. The shirt pocket version of it is an easy read and fits in your flight bag.
Such a great video, I would never attempt Mountain flying without all 3 things: 1) horsepower, 2) acceptable conditions, 3) a Mountain flying expert or Instructor. You may want to fly mountains, but you never need to fly Mountains. 🏔 Thanks again...
I'm not a pilot, but really enjoy your videos. This question may sound dumb, but why not fly at an altitude high enough where wind patterns coming off the mountains won't affect your plane? Is that an option for the plane you were flying?
correct, much of the time in small planes like this it is prohibitive or impossible to climb high enough to get above the mountain wind, so we might as well learn to work with it.
Mountain flying scares the shit out of me
I would not like to have to make a forced landing anywhere there, great job Steve.
+Brian S - thanks, and agreed
FlightChops is the best! Hands down. How can I get a patch for my flight bag?
Ps: GO SHARKS.
+Emerson Butler san jose?
+Emerson Butler Patreon
+Kaliph Zimmer Yes
+Emerson Butler - please have a look at the Patreon campaign, that is the easiest way..., If that doesn't interest you, email me and I can arrange to get you one. Flightchops at gmail dot com
Was that a glider on tow at the end? Guess he heard about that 1200 ft/min updraft
+Gallus19 - affirmative
Quick question, what altitude were the peaks and what was the service ceiling of the aircraft. Could you have flown over if you didn't want to deal with the mountains. Thanks.
I am wondering the same thing.
I know this is a really old question, but seeing it hasn't been answered, I'll try. The elevation of the peaks were on the sectional, around 11,900'. I don't know what airplane he's flying, but without researching, it looks like a Cessna 182 and the service ceiling should be around 18,000'. But you can't just fly over the mountains without dealing with them because the plane won't climb fast enough. It might take 40 miles or more to climb from 7000' (airport) to 15,000' (safe clearance altitude) and that assumes no downdrafts. Meanwhile, the mountains are only 10 miles away! Bottom line, you have to learn everything he talks about in order to stay safe in the mountains.
First! Amazing Scenery as well.
Too many distractions with equipment and sick guy. Ouch. But it was good to see how it can realistically play out.
Couldn't imagine people flying this at night
Heck no... I don't think many people do mountain flying at night. It is a Day VFR only operation as far as I understand. (at least for single engine / non-pressurized.)
One of your better videos. Question. Could a 172 make that trip or do you need something like a 182 or better with more HP?
+William “Fenster” Fence - Thanks! And the 172 is not likely gonna have enough Uumph to handle this trip - especially in mid day heat. Jason can answer that question better than I can though.
+FlightChops fantastic stuff as usual and that's what I thought -
Thought you knew better, there is never enough power to overcome nature you have to use its power. Gliders do this without engines ,knowledge is the key. I’ve flown lots of this terrain in ultralight even 2 cycle
I feel like the fixation on the iPad is textbook for a distraction that causes incidents
+Ruben Schuckit - had I been PIC, I'd agree with you. But I was there as a student, and a filmmaker. Earlier episodes in this series include a fair bit of context to establish that; however, I suppose I could have added more context as such to this episode. That said, during critical phases such as departures, arrivals, and actually flying the passes and ridges, we applied sterile cockpit procedures.
+FlightChops Mhm. I figured given your focus on safety there was a reasonable explanation.
+Ruben Schuckit - cool, but your observation reminds me that I can't assume context can be carried forward from other related episodes... So in this case, I clearly should have explained the situation better in this specific episode. Because yes, distractions when acting as PIC are a serious hazard.
+FlightChops kudos for always looking for a teachable moment! That's why we all watch!
I really like this one! Very informative and great visuals. I got distracted, though, by so much conversation and voiceover about shooting the video during such tense flying moments. I found myself wondering if the PIC wished you folks in the back would be quiet about bumpy cameras and GoPros when he was failing to climb out of a downdraft. However I usually really like to hear and see how the videos were made, in fact kzhead.info/sun/dZlvdNOIe5ZsdYU/bejne.html is my very favorite on this channel and there's a lot of behind the scenes talk in that one. What I'm trying to say is: for my part, there was absolutely no need for any apology about what kind of shots were/weren't included in this video. It is rock-solid, informative, tense, and entertaining. I think your stuff is good enough that you could have a channel purely about the flying and a subchannel that is packed with making-of material.
+Greg Brooks - really appreciate this feedback Greg!
can that plane not fly higher than those mountains?
wow so pretty but ya mountain wave turbulence is no joke yikes Iowa city young eagles have their young eagle flights this summer at the Iowa City municipal airport and I can say I feel a little nervous for the takeoff out of the Iowa City municipal airport its just because there obstructions located in certain spots
Cool cool cool! Thanks for the reminder that you just can’t climb in your airplane on the Gulf Coast and fly to the mountains without a lot of thought and planning. #BoseA20
Great video for an East Coast guy#BoseA20 hashtag.
Literally every single moment of my flight training has been in mountains and valleys (mohave desert, nevada, utah, arizona areas) If you wanna fly with someone who does it all the time hit me up lol
Come give me some training in Utah!!
Whats the point in flying mid day, in the mountains, in small aircraft ,in guaranteed extreme turbulance, it's no fun. Take off just before sunrise instead
Foreflight looks like an awesome application, I was even about to buy it but then in the disclaimer: US and Canada only. Goddamit SkyDemon it is... (unless you know any good European alternatives)
+Thierry Van Tillo - stand by... I will ask them about plans to cover Europe... Please email to discuss further: flightchops at gmail dot com
***** awesome, i've sent you an email
I saw this video: kzhead.info/sun/f959g9VupGSwiWw/bejne.html and it looks/sounds like the problem they ran into was something you cover in your video. The aircraft does not appear to have engine trouble but no matter what they did they still stalled into the trees. They went into that turn and didn't expect the downdraft and were committed to the turn which led to their inevitable crash. Does that seem correct to you or did I misread it?
In the video that you mention, they were high in the mountains of Colorado operating very near the edge of the envelope--at or above service ceiling. They allowed themselves to get boxed in and realized it too late to be able to complete a 180 degree to safety. When they banked, they lost some of their vertical lift component and to maintain altitude they added back pressure increasing the angle of attack right to the edge of the stall, perhaps beyond. What I am saying is that the crash was more of a density altitude box canyon issue rather than a downdraft one...looks like pretty smooth flying in the video. They do mention box canyons and DA on this video...but it is not the focal point.
No oxygen needed or is that plane pressurized?
O2 is required after 30 minutes between 12,500 - 14,000 after 30 minutes and any time above 14,000. Those planes aren't pressurized.
The instructor was amazing, solid knowledge and ability to explain in a clear and concise manner. As an 18 year airline captain and avid general aviation enthusiast I can’t stress how uncomfortable it was to see the other two more focused on pics and that damned iPad than just flying the airplane. I absolutely love the channel but this was one that I have to say was a disappointment. Steve, you’re in the left seat but so focused on passing the iPad back and forth that it seemed like you had very little situational awareness.
ajax psv
fascinating to see and hear; to critique what i saw, you spent WAY too much time as a film director/doctor, and not as a pilot to the point where the co-pilot began to "help" you, re: "cowl flaps". it was a good place to say "fly the plane".. but, thanks for the vid..waiting on more
+thomas m. tordel jr. - thanks for the feedback, and just to be clear I would never take on a complex production as PIC; in this case, I was there as a student pilot and filmmaker.
+FlightChops understood. thanks.