KILLING ZONE: I was SO careless - Night Mountain Flying
2022 ж. 5 Ақп.
123 526 Рет қаралды
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I think when you’re in that “killing zone” a great idea would be to start watching a bunch of aviation accident footage to instill that fear/reverence into the back of your mind again. As a truck driver, seeing videos about accidents definitely keeps me in check (though I can only handle so many).
i watch tons of them but somehow got sucked in. I agree though the accident investigation videos are great.
This is a fantastic idea for anyone. I've been watching accident investigation videos for as long as I can remember!
Honestly those have got me hooked on learning aviation things, sounds morbid but I never knew how intricate and complicated things could be. I work at an airport too and never knew. I've never even been on a plane either. Same with atc stuff, I regret not getting into it all at a younger age. Though messing around on Microsoft flight simulator, I can't imagine how insanely hard it is to memorize everything and how easily weather and other things that can cause issues, nothing but respect to all of you who do it, now I'm addicted to all these aviation videos on youtube
@@thegreatmrt I got my private at 57. It's never too late, bro! :)
Those cfit accident videos definitely keep me humble. 2 month since my private got punched and only 100 hours under my belt I still am one of my biggest critics of my flying skills. Love these videos.
Josh, your description of "The Killing Zone" was spot on. You described perfectly why there are so many GA fatal crashes. And I wouldn't presume to know how to change a person's mindset concerning such poor judgement. You have flown your way to maturity and understanding that in a heart beat how dangerous things can become. Your preflight instructions to yourself really helps those that might not be at your level understand things they may not be thinking about.
Thanks so much! I like to look "over my shoulder" and see how far I've come. It's remarkable what some experience can do!
@@Aviation101 As an example.....I was a Cessna salesman for Cruise Aviation at Hobby in 1969. An acquaintance of mine that worked at another FBO ask me to fly up with him in his Mooney to Cape Girardau, MO to pick up another Mooney and fly it back to Hobby with a refueling stop at Addison. Little did I know that this airplane had no radios. It was gonna be a two ship flight. I was in the "killing zone". 23 yrs old and 200 total hours PPL. We left the Cape late and ended up landing at Addison after dark. Landed at Hobby later that night. All I remember is following his lights through the night. How freakin dumb is that Josh?Of course radio communications in those days were a lot less restrictive than now. I don't believe Bush IAH was even operative at that time. I know it was being built in 65. Only by God's grace did I survive that. There were others but that was the most stupid !! It's just that age, coupled with the invincibility factor that gets people killed. I don't think this flaw in our phyche will heal itself except when experienced CFIs like yourself make it a point to discuss these dangers with their students. Even then, "we" make really stupid decisions.
@@Aviation101 how far we've come... imagining 40 odd years ago, new Canadian pilot, hopping rented Cherokee after working all day and flying all night over the Appalachians with buddy and girls in the back to Florida. IMSAFE did not exist. Imagine pilots flying mail routes in the 1920s. Now, with my first EMS in my RV9 I worry more than ever have.... chasing gremlins that don't exist and probably never have. Something to be said about "those good ole days".
Fascinating seeing my own arc as a private pilot in this excellent and honest video Josh. I'm a UK based instrument rated pilot with about 1500 hours now but back in the early 2000s I used to take my young family from London to, for example, Italy (in stages!!) over (or rather through) the Alps in my 172 without thinking about it - like you I had no terrain awareness, no ADSB, no datalink weather or Stormscope, JPI engine monitor or anything. Just a terrifying amount of (over) confidence. Now I fly a very well-equipped 182 with all the extras and I am very cautious - but alive. I still do big European trips like the UK to Crete (an utterly amazing experience, especially over the Greek islands in the Aegean) but with far more awareness and, dare I say, humility than before. It's all part of the journey, not just of flying but of life. So keep up the great work. Your videos are among the very best on You Tube (as a longstanding ex BBC documentary producer I cannot believe how you make everything both cinematic and instructional and you do it all yourself. All power to you!)
Thanks a ton Stephen! As someone who aspires to do BBC-level work some day, your words here mean a lot. It's amazing to look over my shoulder and appreciate, with humility, where I've been and how far I've come. Not only as a pilot, but as a person, a filmmaker, a student, a teacher - everything!
@@Aviation101 And I meant every word. It's impressive - seriously. And if you ever come across the Pond one day Josh (commercial or flying yourself!!) let us know. There are some fantastic adventures to be had aviating around Europe and some exciting new challenges/videos to be made! Just sixty minutes' flying in a Cessna 182 from my home airfield Denham near London and you can be in at least three other countries: France, Belgium or Holland. A whole new world opens up... Good luck with the channel meantime. Great work.
Your little monologue at the end IS WHY I watch your Channel. I've watched ALL your videos from the first to now for that exact reason. You know how to CONSTANTLY improve on your skills and you see it in every episode. Keep it up and God Bless... okay add TEXAS!
I had a student ask me "Why will you take the DA40 out in the mountains at night but you won't take the 172M?" and it's for all of the exact reasons you listed. I have synthetic vision, TAWS, redundant GPS systems, redundant instruments, redundant radios, and a number of other redundancies, safety features and quality of life features that help me feel confident enough to take that airplane out over the Rockies at night. The 172M has it's same avionics from 1975. It has no power source for a device like a stratus or ADS-B or SiriusXM. Its service ceiling is about 1,000 feet below the peaks I fly near. There's a million reasons. That was a great definition of the killing zone.
I survived a night CFIT accident. Eight years later it still haunts me. Would love to tell the story on KZhead with your help.
I look forward to hearing it.
Would love to hear this!
Please share it.
@@jimimmler9110 yrs
Hi James. Just use your phone’s camera and tell your story! Post a link here so we can follow it. Best wishes!
The Killing Zone is a good book. I read it a few years ago. I think that the area of TX that you and I live in is a little easier to fly in at night due to IH10 and IH35 but East and West TX has a black hole or two in it, so does the Panhandle, and even down by the coast. I was doing steep turns north of Port O'Conner a few years ago and when the heading got close to east the hazy sky and water came together. I had to get on the gauges just to get through the turn. I hadn't done that in 2 decades but the training kicked in. I told the CFI what happened. I fly out of FMN now (just flew a C172RG, N9991B, to CNY and back yesterday) and I haven't flown at night yet (after being here over 3 years). I am planning to fly to Sedona next Saturday morning, just because I want to. The next flight will be dual and at night, probably down to ABQ. It's a good time to be a GA pilot. When I started there were sectionals to keep up with (and they weren't much value flying at night imho), later on Jepps... now we just need an iPad, a subscription. and self awareness. You and Chelsea compliment each other. I'm glad that you two met.
Great Video Josh. I’ve been following you on KZhead for 7 years now. One of my best KZheadrs. Thanks for keeping the fire burning in me.
Great video. I’m based at North Las Vegas with my 182. I’m a pretty new pilot (just crossed 200 hrs). Night flying around here can get the nerves going. I recently flew back from Phoenix at night and did as you did. I stayed over the highway. Thanks for the effort to put up great content. Loved the video. 🤘
Beautiful night flying! really enjoyed this! Thank you!
Beautiful. I flew from Yuma, AZ to Las Vegas, back to PHX at night. Starlight night just beautiful.
Wow, another gorgeous video Josh! It's also really great to see all the new avionics upgrades, in action, and in detail ...very nice! Nicely done, congrats!
Great stuff! Your channel has come a long way since I first saw it a few years back. Keep up the great work!
Love your content, keep doing what you’re doing
Awesome, informative video sir!!!
Glad to see you're both doing well and enjoying your time in my old stomping grounds... I sure miss those mountains! Keep up the great work guys!
Profound insights. Love your channel. Thank you.
Thank you for your candor, Josh and this video.
always love watching your videos
Great video along with some great advice on the very real dangers of being in the "killing zone" as a newly minted pilot. Thinking back on my own experiences as a new pilot, notably doing the very things you described, I could not agree with you more. Thank you for your efforts in helping to make us all better pilots.
Beautiful sunset
Excellent video and a very well-conveyed reminder of the need to stay sharp and to stay smart while in the cockpit. Complacency kills, small mistakes can become big mistakes. Thanks again!
Excellent video as always! Wonderful views and a great message!!
Awesome video, Josh! Thank you for your efforts to educate all pilots on aviation safety. I personally believe you have saved countless lives. Keep up the great work!
Great advice, great views, great plane, great people! Thanks. Glad I've found your channel or, to be correct, it found me! Looking forward to many more from you.
Awesome video man! You guys keep up the great work!
Hi Josh. another cool video. I travelled around this area a few years ago by car (Las Vegas, Hoover Dam, Grand Canyon) and for a Kiwi in the States, it all seemed so immense. Seeing them from the air gives a whole new perspective - especially at night. Can't wait to get back and see more. Also really enjoyed Chelsea's intro - she definitely has the same passion for aviation you do! Keep up the awesome work.
Great commentary on the "killing zone" and your bit about flying through mountains with bouncy fuel gauges and some basic temp awareness hit home. Working on my commercial out of KTIW up in the PNW where there is nothing but mountains and old airplanes with the bare minimum avionics or close to it. Foreflight and thorough planning coupled with strict personal minimums has helped me keep myself in check. Cheers!
Wow - Just great flight and prospective- I am not a pilot but have enjoyed your channel since inception, I am in my 50’s and from time to time you tech me a lesson that can relate to anything- As always safe flights to you and continue to have the time of your life -
Mannnnnnn! This video is so spot on and you probably saved someone’s life by making it. I had this exact situation as a low time pilot flying my Cherokee 180 back from TX to CA. The leg from AZ to CA was a eye opening experience to say the least. You add fatigue to this scenario and it could be your last flight. I made a very smart decision to land in Palm Springs and get a room. So happy I did and was a very peaceful flight home in the morning. Thank you for all your excellent content and work on your channel my friend.
A truly inspired and thought-provoking video. Thank you!
Good to see 991 back! Love the night shots. Beautiful stuff on my screen.
Always enjoy your videos Josh, but I particularly like the message tied to this one. I flew that route a few years ago and can attest to the blackhole effect when flying out towards the Hoover Dam. You can not see the mountains right in front of you. Matter of fact I didn't really see them until the return trip to North Vegas airport with the aid of the Vegas Strip lighting. Beautiful area to fly in. Keep up the great work!
Great content. I’m learning a lot from you and I appreciate it.
Great video. I'll definitely show this to my students. Also, welcome to my hometown! Most beautiful city from the air.
Another great video Josh. My son lives in Kingman, and works at Grand Canyon West. During "the season," he does the riverboat tours down the Colorado.
Excellent video with great scenery!
Great video, excellent content as always.
Glad to see yáll again. Well done.
really enjoy watching your videos.
I, for one second East Texans comment Josh. Great job of planning and also the availability of current avionics is always a plus. Thanks for sharing, not quite sure what model straight tail that was on ur left wing, but reminded me of mine. Again, thanks for sharing from KOPL.
Superb as always, Josh. Your journey has been wonderful to watch. I'm your Dad's age (I think, just turned 60) and I think I waited a little too long to move into this as a hobby... Couple of false starts including some flying time in early training as a young man 17. But I have SO much fun riding with you and learning vicariously through your experiences. You make a lot of us who DREAM about the GA pilots life feel a little closer to the dream even though it's likely out of reach now (even of my bucket list. LOL) . Keep up the amazing work! I'm in the graphics and production world as ONE of my professions - so I know how long it takes you to edit these and make the finals. Well done!!
Unique video for me. Lots of great information. Thanks.
Awesome video. I learned a few things. Thanks!
18:12 reminds me of the first time I fished a night tournament on mountain reservoir and it's pitch black running back to the dock with only garmin lake maps to guide me, it's nerve wracking trusting your equipment sometimes
So glad I went immediately from getting my PPL to getting IFR and now close to CSEL, the killing zone was certainly there, but I'm sure it was reduced by the great influx of training, experience, and overall building of situational awareness. Always a great video man, you're a great role model!
Love your videos the Alaska ones were especially beautiful.
I haven’t flown at night for awhile! I’m just a 300 hobby pilot but I have been flying for 12 years. I like this content, it gives me things to study and brush up on. So fun to listen to how you talk on the radio. The only time I flew into class B airspace was a bad experience, but I have flown into class C several times and I like the radio work. Sometimes I feel there is so much to refresh on!
You and your father have a really nice airplane. It’s more than capable, and a good performer. The panel is really nice too. It obviously gives you a lot of options for all kinds of missions, especially those just for fun. It would seem that you’re definitely getting recognized often.
It's definitely an amazing airplane, and we've given it plenty of makeovers over the years, and some more are just around the corner!
Hi Josh, awesome video. I have to agree with you on all points. I'm now 63, fully current with IFR etc. I received my PPL a week after I turned 17, started X-Country straight away, then Night ratings followed by multi-engine then IFR. In those days there was no fancy stuff, just maps. Nothing like being over the blackness of Australia between Sydney and Melbourne at 11pm, trying to find the pencil you dropped. The stuff I did when I was 19-23, I look back on now and think 'why did my parents let me do it and what was I thinking. We all thought I was safe and I knew I was - I knew it all. One thing I don't miss although I'm glad I learnt at a time when all we had were paper maps. Workload much much higher, doing the navigation and fuel calculations (using an E6B) as well as providing position fixes while keeping ahead of the aircraft, then do it at night! There were no options, this is how it was done. We all seemed to get through it and it does become easier. Now when I fly, I have so much free mental capacity that keeping ahead and being prepared for what could happen is so much easier.
I remember my first attempt at a long cross country. I blasted out of Knoxville in a C-152 Heavy, doing just like you did, following I-40 towards the Cumberland ridge... about half-way there departure killed my radar service, and I was all alone under a broken layer... and the closer I got to the ridge, the smaller the gap between the top of the ridge and the bottom of the cloud looked. Yeahhhhhhhh, no. "Knoxville, 343, we'd like to come back to Tyson." The tech these days is six kinds of amazing, and you can do things you'd never have dreamt of even ten years ago - Vegas to Kingman at night in a Skyhawk, RNAV LPV down to 200', semi-live weather radar (with the caveats! frankly I'd just as soon stay clear of the CB's period; I lost a friend to them _on the ground), TAWS on your iPAD, and real soon now we're gonna have synthetic-vision-augmented approaches... it's just nuts... I just hope that with the hi-zoot get-there apps there's even more emphasis on using one's superior judgement to stay out of situations which require superior skill and instrumentation. (Truth be told, while you can do a lot of neat things with a full-glass panel? I'm always thinking, what if my electrics go completely tango uniform? I want some old-school vacuum and steam gauges somewhere on the panel so I can get down safely when the electrons hit the fan.... ) Thanks for being one of those forces for telling folks when not to go!
As usual an entertaining and a learning video. I was at Hoover Dam many years ago before the newer bridge was built drove on the dame on the way to the Grand Canyon. If you have not been to the Grand Canyon caves it is a must. Safe Travels.
josh keep doing cool videos and helping GA
Very well done/said as always to both of you. Always feel like getting back into the air after watching one of your videos :) blue skies
nice video brother,really enjoy watching them. Hope to get my ppl someday soon
One of your best videos ever
I love flying in to North LV Airport @ dusk!!! It's beautiful @ sunrise too.
80991’s looking goood on the N Vegas ramp there. Would love to get a peek at Chelsea’s 150 sometime. Fly safe, both of you.
I'm from Utah and try pretty hard not to fly at night other than pattern work, you forgot to mention that over the mountains/desert there is often no horizon at night, making it strictly flying by instruments. Can be very dangerous for low time or less proficient pilots.
Absolutely true. I left out alot of details to my near death flight. Many time during my 3 hrs in imc I laid my hand on my wife's leg and quietly and calmly appligized for getting us into that situation, we both truly thought we were done for. But there is acreason they train us at all cost fly the plane, never ever give up. I often wondered how I would react in a situation like that where I thought I was going to die. Oddly a calmness consumed us both. Eventhough I was calm I wasn't ready to give up. Fly the plane! Aviate navigate. I think one thing I would have done was get Atc to help sooner.
Great tip on using the synthetic vision in Foreflight. I never turn it on but the next time I'm up at night I'm going to give it a try ... always looking to improve my situational awareness!
Watching from UK - awesome video. I've got that Tshirt too of doing crazy things when I was young and naive. There's old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots.
Wow, 10 years! I was probably watching. Anyway, another great video! Wonderful views, editing, music! Perfect content. Thanks.
Thank you! very interesting and good shooting quality! Your assistant is respectful!
12:42 two aviation youtubers in the same frame. great video
@Aviation101 Josh, thank you for making this video. I watch from intro to outro and try to absorb all I can from your mistakes so I don't fall into the traps. Hopefully i'll see ya around.
One GREAT tutorial, Josh!!
As a PHX base pilot I’ve flown into Kingman many time. Don’t forget to try Prescott and Flagstaff. Also the Pima aAir Museum at Tucson is a must stop.
Las Vegas is beautiful at night enjoyed your video
Josh, It's so good to see you both out and about! The last two years have been a bit dicey. Are you really tall and is she really short, looked like beauty and the beast:) Cheers, Rik
That approach into North Las Vegas was awesome. Pure fun. Love it.
Josh, great advice, so many pilots here on the east coast don't get real mountain flying training. Phenom 300 pilot
Goodness gracious! He sure is waxing philosophical tonight... (Admitting he used to be cocky and careless - and now he's cocky and careful.) 😏
Thanks, I learned something new!!! fun stuff...with remind the lights *Hey I'm here don't turn off yet or racing the lights feeling.
Good learning experience. I too flew a lot of VFR in questionable conditions. My plane, C-140, was not equipped with anything more than VFR radios. But, that was in the 1980s. Too many times I challenged fuel estimates that were "just enough" to get me to my destination. Safety first! Do not risk the flight if there is any risk that could prevent you from reaching your destination.
Great video for any GA aviator regardless is experience.
Great video and its very, very relevant. It does not matter if your newly minted or an old timer. I can recall the times before Foreflight, flying with an IPAQ, connected to an external Garmin GPS and aviation software people would say....."what's that for?, you could fly into something looking at the screen!" -LOL ......... FLY SAFE!
Thanks so much for sharing Chelsea with us in this video…..you are already a neat young man and boy does she add to the package….don’t let her get away!
If anyone wants to take a real great guided tour n go down inside of Hoover dam I highly recommend it It was a neat experience I did it on a bus tour from Las Vegas on a nice bus. Great video Josh fly safe always
KVGT is where I will be starting flight training soon. Cool seeing my hometown show up on your video!
Love the night flying, just learned a bit about the triangle that borders cali./nevada shhhssss!
That beautiful UPS MD in the background.
I just realized I've been following you longer than all videos you have posted. I seem to remember your high school prom? I also don't remember you doing dumb Shhh, you were alert and mature for your age. You have a LOT more gear now, to say the least, much of it is more advanced than was available. No doubt, you have gained a lot of experience that has heightened your awareness. Standing next to your lady, you have sprouted like a beanstalk. Always a pleasure flying with you, Josh.
I started watching your videos before I’d ever touched a real airplane and now I fly Beech 99s for Ameriflight like the one at 1:20
Bravissimi con i vostri video ci regalate degli angoli d America fantastici👍👍👍👍🥂🥂
Awesome 👍😎
I've read the book (The Killing Zone -How and why pilots die Second Edition by Paul A. Craig) and it has differently been a game changer as far as keep my head on a swivel and do the right thing always.
You flew into my home airport! VGT north Las Vegas! Wish I was flying when you were would love to see 80991 in action!
I was in VGT 3 days before you! Sad I missed ya, flew back a 172S from VGT to AKH just outside of Charlotte NC, the views on that trip were amazing.
I just passed my private check ride because of guys like you. Great video!
Josh, thank you for making these videos. This one came at the right time for me. It has inspired me to fight for my health and my medical certificate so that I can continue my training, do my first solo, and earn my private pilot. Also, I'm a San Marcos native and was training at Lockhart. I hope to cross paths sometime and maybe even fly with you once.
Thank you I agree
Love your videos. I’m year 1 in my flying life. Going for my instrument here soon. On a side note could you put the music you use in a comment or something? The music adds so much feels to your videos. Thanks for the awesome content.
Thanks for the video, good to remember but advance and get better/safer. I would change that CO patch sensor to a CO sensor that reacts much faster, Aithre Shield 4 or similar.
I was told 40yrs. Ago STAY CALM, FLY THE PLANE, and that was without modern Tech. (Steam gauges) I'm still here. 😎
You lucky people. I have driven 93 so many times, the section through Golden Valley from entering at the Dam end to cresting the hill down to I-40 is 51miles of purgatory. To get to our our vacation home in Scottsdale, it was easier to fly Virgin Atlantic EGKK-KLAS arriving 1pm. Collecting the rental, and driving through the desert, we could be at home by 7pm. The direct British flight to KPHX got us there no quicker as it left 5hrs later. Once past Kingman and Wickiup, the rest of the drive I love (but not at night).
As a person who flew a lot at night in mountains some of the things I would use was staying on MEAs even when not on a IFR flight plan. Stay in the pattern area until above the MEA or at least the highest obstruction and descend over the airport all the way to the pattern. Use instrument approaches and departure procedures. When going to Mammoth, Ca. I would come in from Fresno on the airway and stay at the MEA all the way to the airport then descend. Many times SoCal would "tempt" me into the Owens Valley and I would decline. I flew over mountains at night so no expense should be spared in maintaining your airplane. Is there more risk, of course. However, do you fly IFR? Is there ever fog below you? Would you ever decline a clearance if it takes you over mountains? Or fog? Engine failure is a small percentage of fatalities and twins are worse than single engine. So each pilot should weigh this for themselves and if the risk is acceptable. One of the scariest is Las Vegas since there is complex airspace AND mountains all around. I would try to find a safe way to avoid the Class B and get into North Vegas at night and I never found it. Only after getting my IFR rating did I even go into Vegas.
Hello Josh and Chelsea from Sydney Australia. Fantastic short film, and the panarama captured; especially the night lights are my favourite. N991 It's singing like a bird. Even though the 'Go-pro' audio, sounds good. Is the workbench in the hanger, suitable for maintenance and will we see some "overhead' filming of Chelsea "swinging a wrench' with a rag in pocket? Take care, have fun. 📓🌏
amazing filming and editing new sub for sure which camera was she holding for the closer 4k shots of hoover dam vegas etc? honestly beautiful video man
Amen on night flying over the desert. I did just that flying from California to Utah about six months ago. After passing over north Las Vegas with no moon and with in seconds no horizon. And to make matter worse I did not realize the Northern California fire smoke consumed me as well. 76% of idiots like me die within 400 sec. Somehow after a failed attempt to land in Delta Utah , 1.5 hrs later i missed the mountains by 600 feet then decided to go 1.5 hrs back to Las Vegas. Right before the mountains of Las Vegas i was getting hit hard by turbulence. At The mountains of North Las Vegas I got grabbed by a wicked down draft doing 2500 + decent with air speed climbing somehow i got plane leveled out while gps yelling terrain. Now over Las Vegas there were no beautiful lights. Yep the smoke covered it to 4000 feet. Not sure to this day how a simple vfr pilot did not do a JFK JR into the desert. SO needless to say i agree about making better decisions. I HOPE this might reach someone and keep the from being stupid. O yea spatial disorientation is wicked .
That's precisely what this content is all about! I want to show humility in the things I've done, and know that none of us are immune to accidents. Stay sharp!!
God's grace was sufficient for the day.
@@easttexan2933 absolutely
@@mpamsinc just don't do that again. I would hate to think that Dan Gryder Probable Cause would be talking about your demise lol.
@@easttexan2933 Lesson learned. i would definitely not want the bango played on account of my stupidity, LOL
Another wonderful ‘learning moment’. Every pilot’s tolerance of risk is different. Perhaps I am more conservative than the mean average of single engine pilots but IMHO’ despite Garmin, JPI, and other cockpit resources, an engine related emergency at night in a single means only one thing, you are faced with a forced landing with the odds severely stacked against a favorable outcome. When I got my licence, a 10,000 plus hour pilot said these exact words to me, “When the sun goes down, he wants to be on the ground and not airborne in his single”. Seemed to make lot of sense at the time and still does, after all flying is all about risk management and it seems to me that an attempted landing at night, would be highly risky. Love your work.
If all there is is roads with head lights and tail lights seams like a perfect way to increase the body count. From Vegas to California there is so much traffic it would be a miracle to make it alive and not kill more.