The Northman: Is Vengeance A Dish Best Not Served?
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In this video essay I analyze Robert Eggers' the Northman and the psychological and cultural purpose of vengeance. How the need for vengeance can shape our identity. The Northman features Alexander Skarsgard, Anya Taylor Joy, Willem Dafoe, Nicole Kidman, Claes Bang and others. It is a deeply violent Viking movie. Robert Eggers said with this film he wanted to make the 'definitive Viking movie'.
Prince Amleth is on the verge of becoming a man when his father is brutally murdered by his uncle, who kidnaps the boy's mother. Two decades later, Amleth is now a Viking who raids Slavic villages. He soon meets a seeress who reminds him of his vow -- save his mother, kill his uncle, avenge his father. The Northman is co-written and directed by Robert Eggers and stars, Alexander Skarsgård; Nicole Kidman; Claes Bang; Anya Taylor-Joy; Ethan Hawke; Björk; Willem Dafoe
Music:
♪ Heldom channel - bit.ly/3xzsHtr
♪ Heldom - Banagadr
♪ Heldom - Hvitskogr
♪ Heldom - Havamal
♪ Heldom - Myrkr
♪ Heldom - Refsingardom
♪ Heldom - Styrkja
♪ Heldom - Vaknan
♪ Heldom - Refsingardom
♪ Viking Drums Trailer | Royalty Free Music Links Included bit.ly/3QsnkF7
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#thenorthman #storytellers #roberteggers
I came from an abusive home and have CPTSD as a result. Thank you for touching on how that can lead to crushing self esteem issues, and warped internal narratives. I think that's why I loved the twist so much, reality was nowhere near as cut and dry as Amleth had spent his life making it out to be.
Waiting for that one guy who says it's the worst movie he had ever seen.
Oh! Oh! Oh! It's the worst movie I've never seen!
@@Thessalin lmao
"I'm the bad guy? When did that happen??" - Falling Down It is interesting that most vengeance and vigilante stories are in many ways just a slasher movie where we root for the psychotic serial murderer. It really was a fun twist in The Northman that elevated it from potentially being just an off-brand Conan ripoff. By ripping apart the narrative that the protagonist built his whole life around, we could see how truly twisted that viewpoint can become when you convince yourself that you are destined to rid the world of evil using any bloody means necessary. Blinding you to the atrocities you commit along the way. But, of course, like with Fight Club the people who need that sobering shift of perspective will probably ignore the underlying narrative and instead just relish in the wish-fulfillment of brutally tearing apart enemies.
Revenge is not for people who died, it's about satisfying of a person inner again
It is worth noting that in The Northman none of the main characters can e called "Good Guys." They have all done horrible things. Even before we learn of King Aurvandel's (Amleth's father) abusive actions towards Queen Gurun (Amleth's mother), we already know that he is not a "Good Guy" because when he first arrives we see slaves in chains being pulled behind by his men. The only one who might come close is Olga, but even she is morally ambiguous in that she taints the stew that causes many of Fjolnir's men and anyone else who might have eaten it to see horrible hallucinations. Some of whom are driven to suicide. This is not a world of black & white, good & evil. Every main character can be seen as a villain or hero depending on the perspective you choose to look at. It should be noted that when Amleth's Mother, Gudrun, tells him about his father's cruelty and that she orchestrated his murder. She also confesses that she gave Fjolnir her blessing to kill Amleth as well. She then starts to flirt with Amleth, saying that if he kills Fjolnir, Thorir (Fjolnir's oldest son), and Gunnar (Fjolnir's young child with Gudrun), she would be his queen. Her story of rape at the hands of Amleth's father can't be confirmed one way or the other, aside from the old slave brand on her shoulder. However, the fact that this woman is willing to condemn her own children to death and then take part in incest, makes Amleth's reaction understandable. Knowing that back then next to nothing was known of mental illness, there is no other way to describe a person like her other than "evil" (at least from Amleth's perspective). Amleth also has a moment where he expresses some regret for his path of vengeance. Before learning the truth about his Mother's role in his Father's murder, Amleth states that he would be willing to take young Gunnar with him when he rescues his Mother. And, after learning the truth, Amleth says that he would never kill a woman, no matter how evil. This implies that even though Amleth has been shown to be a ruthless killer, he does have some sense of a moral code. He won't kill women and children. Even though the Raid that he takes part in results in the deaths of many women and children, Amleth himself is not the one who kills them. While this could be done in order to make Amleth less despicable as a character, historically speaking the Vikings actually were very respectful and protective towards women and children (contrary to popular belief). That's not to say that rape and murder of women and children didn't ever happen. It just wasn't as common as people like to believe. This video goes more in-depth on that subject: kzhead.info/sun/jN2NfNqgkGSgo58/bejne.html So, when Amleth does kill his mother and Gunnar, it is purely in self-defense. Yes, he was attacking the farm and killing the rest of Fjolnir's men, so they had no way of knowing that he intended to spare them. Thus, they had every reason to attack him. Nevertheless, they did force his hand. And, after killing them, the look on Amleth's face is complete devastation. This was not what he wanted at all. It's at this moment that Fjolnir enters and sees his dead wife and son. What's interesting about this moment is that Amleth does not try to explain himself. It doesn't matter that they were killed in self-defense, Amleth and Fjolnir were already on a collision course, and when they agree to meet at "The Gates of Hel" you can see this sort of acceptance in Amleth's eyes. This is the point of no return.
That moral objective view is quite imperialist
Agreed with you on almost everything, except for what you said about Gunnar. If anything, I feel like the inclusion of Gunnar makes the final act extremely incoherent. Because you're right when you say that Amleth won't harm children during his vengeance quest, as they are innocent, which is what Gunnar is. HOWEVER, the issue with this, is that when Amleth realizes that Olga is pregnant and that he must return to kill Fjölnir and Gudrún, what the film glosses over is the fact that Amleth must also kill Gunnar. Otherwise, Gunnar will go down the same path as Amleth has. If anything, I would have preferred if this fact was brought up at the end of the 2nd act, as Amleth will be confronted with a difficult choice, being forced to break his one rule, that being harming a child. But for some reason, the film kind of chickens out, as neither Amleth or Olga ever note this fact. Now before you stay, "Oh, but didn't you watch the movie? He does kill Gunnar.". Which is true, until you actually rewatch the scene and break it down. Because for the life of me, I can't tell if that death was either an accident, "self-defense" or Amleth did intend to kill him right away. Regardless, the confusion as to whether or not Gunnar's death was either of those things extremely undermines the climax. Because not only does the film gloss over the fact that Amleth NEEDED to kill Gunnar, since the film wanted to give Amleth a quasi-hero's ending, it had to dull the impact of him killing Gunnar, by making audiences say, "Oh he didn't MEAN to kill him." or "It was self-defense.", in order to do so. The film knew Gunnar had to die, but didn't want to shoulder full responsibility of his death on Amleth's shoulders, thus making the ascension to Valhöll at the end seem extremely off. What doesn't make much though, is that despite the fact that the film tries to downplay Amleth's actions in killing Gunnar, no scenario makes the climax any less dissonant. If Amleth had no intention of killing Gunnar at all, then this is a huge contrivance, since his family would still be at risk, thus negating the entire point of going back to kill Fjölnir. But if he did, what if Gunnar was begging for mercy? Would he still be having that "hero's death", even if it was an accident? Yeah, it doesn't come together, which is odd considering that this film didn't seem like the type to do so. As it never wanted to have us taking sides, but showed a very brutal world that can lead people to do very morally questionable things, leaving to interpretation to who the good or bad guys are. Yet the tone of the ending really seemed to throw that all out the window.
I don't think that out modern take on "good" can be applied to the narrative of The Northman. What is "good" anyways? Just another name for "evil" for someone else. There's no good, there's no evil, there's only our perspective.
I'm coming from a country that people say " a vendetta ( blood feud) never dies, she only falls at sleep" Actually the killing the young ones before they being in age to" wake up" the feud it was a practice that made it right to 20th century In the aftermath of WWII such stories all over Europe and especially in the Balkans was far more common than we think
"A dish best not served." Very good writing this video sir
Yes! I loved, loved, loved that!
Vengeance is ultimately empty and unfulfilling. It seems satisfying on the surface, but it doesn’t help anyone and instead perpetuates a toxic cycle of violence. Unfortunately, many of the most popular films these days tend to validate vengeance as not only a reasonable and justified response, but a form of heroism.
Depends on what you want to get out of it💭🤔. I think there's generally 2 parts to vengeance: one side seeking perceived justice and the other seeking personal satisfaction and healing/closure. I don't think it can, by itself, help heal but it can definitely (depending on how its met out) meet the first goal thus opening up room for the second💭
@@simphiwe4930 I disagree, but that’s all right.
@@simphiwe4930 My honest opinion is people who talk about vengeance being empty and unfulfilling have never been able to take vengeance. From my experience, it's incredibly satisfying. One way or another, there's closure.
@@MKJNS7086 i think the opposite
I haven't been this early in a long time. I'm glad to see you covering this movie!
Get your arse out of bed kidda!
This was a great video mate. Thanks for the hard work. I definitely need to watch more of your channel!
Great video! Really enjoyed this take on the film.
Great stuff man!
Vengeance simply give off the sense of instant gratification. It seems fast, simple and instant. Kinda like fast food. Plus we all had at least one person in our lives that we wanted to axe or wished something happened to that person.
I hope you see that the flame that burns for vengeance and ill fate of others is sure to consume the self.
I very much enjoy your clear and distinct pronounciation, which makes your videos accessable even for non-native-speakers. Thank you for that!
Been watching you for a while and just now I noticed that I was never actually subscribed. Sorry about that and thank you for the value you provide us all.
Very well done
Excellent video of an excellent movie
I watched this film with an old friend, and it was tough to like it or think it was a "masterpiece" (it was a good film, technically). In the past (some of the film) we see the worse of human nature, and here in the present some this still exist. Many of us don't go in for violence, however many still choose do wrong to other's adding to a cycle of hate & apathy.
I don't think it's certain that Amleth's mother was telling the truth. She has many reasons to tell that story.
name one reason
@@orangewarm1 To stop Amleth killing her new family. Also, maybe she has been rationalizing what happened to herself over the years so that she can live with it. (I wasn't screaming. I was laughing. I wanted this. I wasn't taken by force.)
i was wondering the same thing. but traditionally the mother fulfills that ambiguous place and he never quite knows what the deal is with her. i thought they did v well keeping him and us in the dark once again.
@@kevinulysses2105 I have the same doubt. I've felt that she didn't have much affection for her son from the beginning of the movie
To be honest, I kind of think she was telling the truth. However, because her and Fjölnir did conspire to kill Amleth as a child as well as several innocent villagers, one can make the case that they're no better for that.
Great video. I wish this movie wasn't getting a measly 64% audience score at the time I am writing this because this movie was really good. When I saw the trailer I thought it was just going to be and epic revenge movie too. Which is fine. I love Kill Bill, and Django Unchained. They are good movies and you make a very good point why we like them. But it is a breath of fresh air to see something different that challenges it's audience. I think that is why people didn't like the movie. It's not about good triumphing over evil where the hero saves the day and everything is honky dory after a bunch of epic violent action. It's about the futility of revenge, violence, fear and hatred and the endless cycle it feels like it creates. Like Master Yoda said "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." I love a good vs evil story too, but that doesn't mean I should avoid things that make me think which is why I think some people didn't like this movie. They wanted Vikings meets Taken with Splash of Game of Thrones and thankfully the movie isn't that. The movie also makes me think of the movie Beowulf and Grendel. The Gerard Butler Beowulf movie no one but probably me has seen and liked in these comments. It feels pretty period accurate, and takes a more thoughtful approach to the old legend. Beowulf has a subdued masculinity to him. Sure he's a manly badass, but doesn't boost or act full of himself. He's humble, but still knows how to kick ass becasue well he's Beowulf and you can just tell by the way he holds himself. He doesn't just go in to kill Grendel with an epic over the top fight like in the animated film. The film takes time with Beowulf figuring out why Grendel wants to attack the Danes and learning the past that ultimately led to him hating them so much. It has a message about the stupidity of intolerance, and pointlessness of violence all while sucking you into up until this move was probably the most Viking like Viking movie made. It's not as epic, action packed, and even drags a little in parts but it does a good job at immersing you into the setting. It's not perfect but I feel it deserves to be a cult classic personally.
To be honest, I don't think that's the issue. Especially since there are revenge films like Unforgiven, Oldboy, and Blue Ruin that were immensely popular with audiences with them portraying the hero as morally questionable and that vengeance can make you into a monster. So I never had a problem with that in The Northman. HOWEVER, what I did have a problem with, was the climax of the movie. Now don't get me wrong, I did like how it was set up, as it wasn't about Amleth returning for vengeance, but to protect the women he loves, as well as his unborn children. But then why would they play out the final battle as one of good v evil and his death as uplifting, when the movie has shown Amleth has not so much a "hero" and the "villains" are more complex? I think a good way to compare this is with The Lion King and Gladiator, as within both climaxes, the reason they work is because Simba and Maximus are at no point seen as in the wrong. They're seen as the good guys taking down the bad guys, therefore their climaxes and endings work. But in The Northman, it feels dissonant, as the film has been dressing down Amleth's heroism, yet it still chose to give him a hero's death. Now you can argue that because Fjölnir and Gudrún still conspired to kill Amleth as child, this doesn't really tarnish his heroic intent to protect his loved ones, since they're still worse. So the final act really may not be fatal due to this. BUT WHAT IS FATAL, is the inclusion of someone, whose presence results in the climax becoming extremely incoherent. That someone being Amleth's half brother, Gunnar. Throughout the 2nd act, Amleth has stated that he won't let any harm come to Gunnar on his vengeance quest, as he views Gunnar as innocent. But the problem with this, is that when Amleth realizes that Olga is pregnant and that he must return to kill Fjölnir and Gudrún, what the film glosses over is the fact that Amleth must also kill Gunnar. But for some reason, the film kind of chickens out, as neither Amleth or Olga ever note this fact. Now before you stay, "Oh, but didn't you watch the movie? He does kill Gunnar.". Which is true, until you actually rewatch the scene and break it down. Because for the life of me, I can't tell if that death was either an accident, self-defense or Amleth did intend to kill him. Regardless, the confusion as to whether or not Gunnar's death was either of those things extremely undermines the climax. Because despite the fact that the film tries to downplay this scene so we can get to the showdown between Amleth and Fjölnir, no scenario makes the climax any less dissonant. If Amleth had no intention of killing Gunnar at all, then this is a huge contrivance, since his family would still be at risk, thus negating the entire point of going back to kill Fjölnir. But if he did, what if Gunnar was begging for mercy? Would he still be having that "hero's death", even if it was an accident? Yeah, it doesn't come together, which is odd considering that this film didn't seem like the type to do so. As it never wanted to have us taking sides, but showed us seeing a very brutal world that can lead people to do very morally questionable things, leaving to interpretation to who the good or bad guys are. Yet the tone of the ending really seemed to throw that all out the window.
vengeance feels good because it allows to exert cruelty on others, to exert the will to power, change my mind
Vengaence is the most primordial act and first historic intent of trying to apply a proto sense of justice to the world. Picture this: First men that evolved, guy from other tribe kills my wife and son, what is the only logical consecuense of this? "I should kill and have a retribution" I must retaliate. Since our origins we have thirsthed for this impulse, it is what it is, almost antihuman the case that you don´t retaliate after taking part of an injustice to your self or family...
Not exacting vengeance makes one inhuman? Wow... what an amazingly, ambitiously bad take.
@@a.t.3192 sorry prob you got me wrong, what i meant was that vengeance is very human, and in the process we become inhuman, considering how deep is the injustice the lenghts to which someone can go to kill other human may be astonishing
Like Retribution, you feel owed it.
radical content, i'm a fan!!!!
The use of mykyr by heldom is fantastic
Forgiveness is divine.
it's interesting you link this to manson's book. it sounds good, i might give it a go. i think vengeance is ultimately an empty story and i think eggers illustrates that. i was waiting for you to mention the batman and how it's another variation on the hamlet story and the futility and impossibility of revenge 😉 but this was v good analysis anyway. i think the northman was a competent take on hamlet (or hamlet is a competent take on the northman or whatever) i really enjoyed the twist via his mother. i had thought that making the murder of his father explicit is special to this tale but somebody pointed out to me that the lion king exists, so yay.
What movie is the last scene from?
Oldboy is the best movie about revenge IMO. It shows how empty it is no matter how gratifying it seems.
Gladiator is the best. gets revenge and saves the community.
@@orangewarm1 to each their own mate
Liverpool! #MilesAhead
maybe it's not the audience that's obsessed, but the writers and producers.
... Because most of us are weak and unhappy and feel insignificant and simply waiting to lash out with a purpose.
Mark Manson... Really? And how are we supposed to know Amleths mother was telling the truth?
I mean, is there anything concrete to suggest she wasn't?
@storytellers nah, vengeance is a cross species thing, thoughty2 did a video about a tiger who stalked the man who wounded it a good long way before it killed him. No way that's the only time something like thay happened either.
Beautiful work and topic exploration. Wrath, for good reason, is a deadly sin. It's a natural, primal experience that, when unleashed, possesses a man and leads him to commit graver sins. Like vengeance. It reminds me of the archetype shadow warrior.
Great analysis, but to leave out the Revenant is unforgivable. To me it's the best fable about revenge and the moral is served with just one shot that shows perfectly that fulfilling even the most just revenge rids you of a chance for forgiveness, reconciliation and future. Of course you're forgiven, so we can move on.
Vengeance is an underrated trait humans have that helped us rise to the top. We used to have predators, and for each one they killed, five or ten family members, friends and tribesmen would turn up to stab it. That doesn’t happen with most animals, especially prey animals, you won’t see ten gazelles showing up at your door to burn your house down.
A comment for the YT algorithm
We aren't "obsessed" with vengence. We do however gravitate toward simple to understand stories. And there is no simpler story structure than classic melodrama. Hero, love interest, best friend, villain, and villain's right-hand man creates a perfect recipe for all inclusive storytelling. Vengeance is just one flavor of many in this ice cream shop of melodrama we as an audience have grown incredibly accustomed to.
revengeance
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh slaughter slaughter ahhhhhh slaughter all
constructive criticism here so feel free to tell me to stfu, but you don't need the video shots of you talking, the voice over is enough, they say a picture can speak a thousand words so when you use shots of you talking instead of scenes from movies that emphasize what you are talking about i feel like it takes me out of the moment instead of drawing me further in. excellent video analysis regardless!
Haha thx, I'm experimenting with it. Just feel like it's important to see a little bit of the face behind this channel so gonna experiment with it for a while.
@@storytellers1 I enjoyed the change of pace :)
I agree with what you say in this video. Unfortunately I did not find the Northman to be very good.
Revenge American movies vs Revenge Korean movies
In what sense there?
Well considered upload but ultimately 90% of us will never face what you portray here. Best wishes 🙏