American turned Dutch: Giving up US Citizenship
What is it like being an American turned Dutch citizen? Can one fully integrate? What does it mean to be Dutch? 🇺🇸 🇳🇱
Skylar is originally from the US but has spent over 15 years in the Netherlands. They gave up their American passport for a Dutch one. This is their story about what it is like to be between two different cultures.
👤 Skylar: www.collaborativemotion.com/
⏰ CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
00:36 Skylar's journey
02:36 What is identity?
03:35 American vs. Dutch identity
05:58 "Where are you from?"
07:47 When did you start feeling "Dutch"?
09:56 European vs. American citizen
10:30 Influence of American culture
11:47 Do you feel accepted by Dutch society?
13:30 Where is home?
14:16 Final words
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😁 WHO AM I?
I'm David, a Californian living in Amsterdam. I make videos about life in the Netherlands, hiking/traveling, and the Camino de Santiago.
🔸 If you live in the Netherlands, I'd love to hear your story and interview you.
Email: hidavidwen@gmail.com
Did you become a Dutch citizen? What's your experience been like...what does it mean to be Dutch? 🇳🇱
I have considered giving up on my US citizenship and moving to Netherlands. Here in America I feel that I get too judged for the way I live and I don’t feel that sense of freedom to live how I want like I would in the Netherlands. Also we have too much crime in the US and I don’t feel safe here. I know that Netherlands has some of the lowest crime rates in the world.
@@leatherpants247 Sorry to hear you feel judged-I completely understand-I was having a conversation last night with a few visiting American friends about this. "What do you do?" is always the first question that is asked in an often judgmental way. And yeah statistically, crime rates are a lot lower in the Netherlands. Wish you the best in 2023
Taal is identiteit, zonder kennis en vaardigheden in de Nederlandse taal kan er van een Nederlandse identiteit geen sprake zijn.
@@petertraudes106 Er zijn zoveel meer zaken dan alleen het Nederlands wat een Nederlander Nederlander maakt.
@@ericfoxprime Dat is waar maar om die gemeenschappelijkheid te ervaren is toch een zekere vaardigheid in het Nederlands vereist.
Just watched your interview with the Dutch gentleman in SFO, and now this guy. I have to say, the interviewees make these videos quality! I also like the fact that you let people talk. One thing Skylar says is something that bothers me sometime, and I don't know how to say it without annoying someone. I sometimes have the feeling that someone's inner feelings take over the perception of the outsider. People most probably don't think the way you think they feel. I think people need to learn to accept themselves and love who they are. Once you can do that, whatever comes from the outside doesn't even come into play anymore, it just disappears.
Thanks! Learning how to accept oneself is so important...yet not the easiest to do. But you're right-that is key!
People are always looking for their own kind. Feeling at home is very important. Even as a Dutch person I felt not totally accepted in a certain village, but when I moved to another one this totally changed. I am very happy, feel at home and accepted here. As different as our landscape is ànd our weather, as different are the people. So my tip is: if you don’t feel at home, travel the world till you do.❤
Thanks for sharing =) Feeling at home and belonging somewhere is very important. So happy to hear you found your "home"
I agree. I've lived and worked all over the NL for a little more than two decades and still feel more comfortable and at home in the bigger cities that have more of an international feel than the smaller towns and villages of Zeeland where I live with my man. My favourites are Haarlem, Leiden and Den Hague, but not Amsterdam where I work p.t. and leave as soon as my work is done. These days I find it too hectic a city to linger in and enjoy, though I do sometimes spend an overnight while working. Musical events, expos and comedy clubs like Boom Chicago are always fun to visit, though, and so are evening canal rides with a glass of wine or beer.
Yeah, I lived in both Russia and the United States (Iowa of all places)...born and bred Amsterdammer myself. Oddly enough in Iowa especially I felt so incredibly homesick. In Russia I at least lived in St. Petersburg and Moscow, and that was back in 2000 when Putin only just got into power...I have no clue how things are there now, but back then it was incredibly cosmopolitan, open minded and as a Dutchman especially you simply could do no wrong.
I taught at MGU (Moscow State U) in 1998-99 during Yeltsin's last year in power and Russia's severe economic crisis when all the banks were closed and no one could get their money out of them. I was one of the fortunate ones, though, because my American university was paying my salary. It was regardless a hard time for everyone. Businesses with transport trucks from outside Russia feared to deliver goods that wouldn't be paid for, items on store shelves quickly disappeared and a lot of folks were going hungry. This was when I also visited my then friend here in the Netherlands who loaded my luggage with packaged soups and canned goods to bring back with me. Interesting times.
@@aislingbooks They were! Personally I started debating whether or not I brought bad luck to Russia. There was the burning down of the Moscow TV tower, the sinking of the nuclear submarine Kursk (losing all hands) and of course that absolutely horrifying business at the Moscow theatre. Still I met some absolutely amazing people. When I was set to move from St. Petersburg to Moscow of all days my bank made a mistake -that- day and I was suddenly without funds. There was this seller memoribilia near the Peter and Paul fortress. And though he and his family hardly had two rubles to rub together he took me in without hesitation, offering me, a reasonably affluent westerner, a place to stay. Seen both the very best in people and the very worst. But yeah, it very much is a country of extremes. As for Moscow University, in terms of location alone, what a beautiful spot! Hats off to you, that couldn't have been easy though.
You're a good interviewer David, good with people, asking good questions ...
Thanks Andre. Been working on it. And appreciate the kind words :)
Hello David, this interview or conversation was very nice to listen to, thanks and great job
Thanks for the kind words and happy 2023!
Very interesting interview David! and pleased to watch & listen to a wonderful guest. Thoughtful as usual, and I'd like to say that I'm also pleased to see that you take your time to respond every comment..that's priceless, keep up the good work!
Thanks for the kind words :) Yeah I try to respond, I'm very appreciative for people who do comment as well because that's where I can connect and also learn too, so thanks!
The man you are interviewing is simply a hero. He has the guts and the courage to stand up for himself. I would almost say: typically Dutch! Good guy!
Thanks Bert. Skylar is a great person indeed.
Very interesting interview. Thank you!
You're welcome Torsten! Thanks for the kind words
After almost 50 years in The Netherlands (being Spanish)I can relate to many of you as regards friendships. I do think that climate and a calvinist past influences the behaviour of the Dutch. I recall when the lakes used to freeze in the winter how open and happy they were. So different!. Speaking very good Dutch is also important, to understand their humor. Laughing together binds! . I also think they are very independent in general and since they are at home and probably have family long less for new friendships. Personally i do not seek friends any longer, just happy with 2. I do feel very comfortable speaking with strangers, feeling i am home and have every right to be here. Not caring at all if i am Dutch enough. In fact i notice they find more exciting that i am Spanish than myself. My most important lesson was that telling Dutch how i loved the country and its people and how happy i was here opened many doors while if i would be honest and tell the negative sides they would just leave. So, love them?
Thanks for sharing Trini. I think that's beautiful that you've come to be OK with 2 good friends. Quality > quantity. Do you go back to Spain often?
@@hidavidwen once a year usually. To avoid being "split" i made a choice years ago that home was going to be where my husband and children were and at the same time keep being Spanish. That gave me peace.
Well said, this guy spoke a lot of truth.. especially towards the end.
Wow.... Thank you for the holiday gift. This interview was exceptionally well done. There is so much about life we simply do not fully understand. We are all a recipient of indoctrination on some levels. Thank you for this post and what you do. S.F. Bay Area resident slowly making my way to the Netherlands to contribute and learn.
Thanks Chris. Again, always nice to hear from someone back "home" in the Bay-we learn so much about the world and ourselves when we do move away...excited for you whenever that time comes =)
Don’t worry about the “one of us” too much. My totally Dutch aunt and uncle moved from Rotterdam to Drenthe and even after 30 years they where still considered the outsiders there. I myself have Dutch ancestry for as far as I can find, but often the typical Dutch way of doing is totally alien to me. The Netherlands is very diverse, if people like it or not won’t change that one bit.
Thanks for sharing and the words of encouragement
Naja, wellicht omdat Randstedelingen en mensen uit de provincie ook totaal anders zijn...
Exactly. It doesn't matter where you come from. There will always be people who can't accept someone for who they are. Don't waste your time with those kinds of people.
Can confirm. Am as Dutch as they get and the entire thing is much more of a shared burden than you might realize
Another amazing interview David and what a beautiful human being that man is. I'm just telling you, you should put more emphasis on creating youtube videos for us! :D
Skylar is an amazing person. Thanks for the kind words and I really enjoy making them and getting to talk to people-I've been taking some time off for the holidays but definitely plan to make more!
Good interview, David. I've been living in NL for almost 32 years now. Although NL is home, much more so than South Africa where I lived until the age of 26, I do have my days when I struggle with my Dutchness. What I've always been acutely aware of is the fact that my life here essentially started at 26 years of age. Before that age, I did not exist in the sense that I can really talk about it as something normal, share childhood experiences, still hang out with friends from my school days. This is a fundamental thing interwoven in the identity of the Dutch. Making friends with the Dutch is exceptionally difficult because so much time and effort is invested in maintaining friendships from childhood and/or early twenties. There is no room for anyone else. So, as much I would like to say I'm Dutch, I know I never will be.
Thanks for sharing. Interesting to hear that even after 32 years...you still struggle with Dutchness. And seems like you're not the only one. Again, thanks for sharing (and I'm sure there are many out there like you and Skylar that feel the same!) Happy 2023
Wow it is interesting to hear that, but I gues you are right. I have been friends with the same people some for over 20 years and some for over 10 years non shorter than that so yes. I have a tight unit of friends around me who I would trust my life too, but I can imagine that for a non native it would feel almost impossible to get inbetween that and too get the feeling of beeing exapted into that circle of friends. I am positive though that a lot of people are open to making new friends regardles of your nationality, race or anything like that. So yeah it might be tough, but certainly not impossible.
@@kellypeters5379 Sure, the ones that are not native Dutch. Otherwise it is definitely a matter of looking for a needle in a haystack. Totally soul-crushing to be busy with wanting to be close friends with a Dutch person. That is, after all, part of the process of coming here, with the aim of integrating fully. One ends up looking needy after a while, so one stops trying. In the first years I was here I did all I could to be as Dutch as possible, as quickly as possible. I learned the language, went to Hogeschool van Amsterdam to study Bedrijfseconomie in classes filled with Dutch men (I was a housewife at the time). This helped me further in speaking business Dutch, so that I would be prepared and equipped to join the workforce easily. I am now told that one can't hear that I'm not Dutch (native). But people are too busy here, either with all their social obligations or recovering from their social obligations. Everybody else is kept at arms-length and time is guarded with a vengeance. That in itself is not a problem. Life is busy. Het is wat het is, ik ben gestopt met vriendschappen willen aangaan met een Nederlander. Het blijft oppervlakkig leuk, en het is goed zo.
@@MYoung-mq2by That last part sounds incredibly sad. I hope it doesn't bother u, the fact that u somehow feel u get be of become friends with Dutchies. I of course can''t speak for the people u have met or the experiences u have had, But I can't imagine people not wanting to be friends just because they didn't know u since childhood, although I recognise alot of what u said (Dutchie myself with some friends left over from childhood/highschool etc). I don't want to sound pedantic, but it has been my experience that u can find friendly people everywhere u go work/social/sport anything. Perhaps u are not looking for such shallow friendships (which I can understand). Like I said, I really hope I doesn't bother u, and that u stil feel welcome here in the Netherlands.
@@rgfrank1668 Thank you! That is really nice. I didn't intend to have my reply sound sad, just a matter of fact. It did bother me for a while, of course. It doesn't anymore because social isolation has become more of a general trend. A lot of people complain about it nowadays. It's not "just me" anymore, and I've come across other foreigners that complain about the same thing: the impossibility of making real friends with a native Dutch person. I'm sorry to say, but it is definitely a thing. Superficially the Dutch are absolutely lovely to communicate with. I love the easy, light-hearted interaction. They just don't want you close by. Not out of meanness, but just guarding their time and space. I respect that in anybody, actually. I do indeed mean the deeper, closer friendships with people you dare to be vulnerable with. These relationships take time and this is the one thing people do not have. Other than that, preconceived ideas can be limiting. About what one's childhood could possibly look like, or trying to imagine living conditions to be able to relate to stories shared. I did not grow up in a tree or a hut, for instance. Even if I did, I'd still have the same basic needs. The English grammar I use I learned at school. No big deal, just normal. I went to a normal school with the same subjects as kids get here. I know that because my own children went to school in NL. I could compare. My own childhood and early twenties were very similar with the same craziness. I get on well with my colleagues and the people I come across during daily life. It's all very pleasant and friendly and I've no intention of leaving at all. My life is in NL. Acceptance goes a long way. But I do think it's something people are not aware of when choosing to come here: that one must not expect to be fully accepted in the Dutch inner circle. A sense of distance will always be there.
They are the most calming person... i could listen to them talk forever.
Yea
They do have a very calming voice and personality!
great interview.
Thanks Sally, hope you are well!
Iam coming to Netherlands by 2023 and watching ur every video ,,,, really helpful for me. Happy new year from Athens
2023 is coming up! Thanks for watching and happy new year! Wishing you a great 2023 in 🇳🇱
@@hidavidwen happy and healthy new year to u as well
Nationality is “an identity” but i think it should not be an important one. If it is your “main identity” , whether it is in a right or wrong sense, it should be something to question. Why are you or why do people expect you te be patriotic, why do borders should determine you as a person, or why am i not respected as a cultural minority in my country. I hope all people could feel themselves as an individual and enjoy their cultural traditions but will not reject others because of political or national borders.
Thanks for sharing. I agree that we should feel like ourselves as individuals and treat people as people regardless of what we have as passports or our socioeconomic status
In this case I'm Dutch too not Brazilian. Unfortunately is so far far faaaaar away reality. WTF
Identity is your own private matter but borders determine your life. Even in the sense that you are still alive because there are hospitals and low infant mortality within those borders. Even the fact that this person could move to the Netherlands and apply for Dutch citizenship is because of his American citizenship that allowed for that, and is the direct consequence of being born within US borders. The privilege to claim to be a global citizen comes from borders.
True. Not to mention many people still mix up nationality and ethnicity
Great video, great to see someone wanting to be Dutch, sharing out culture.
Thanks for the kind words. Yeah many great things about Dutch culture!
I often don’t know how to answer the question “where are you from?”… I don’t identify myself as my nationality / gender and so on. Actually I don’t think it’s a good question to ask people 😢 I would ask questions like what makes you happy / how do you like living here? Thanks for the inspiring interview!
You're welcome and thanks Cathy! Oh yeah, I hate getting that question (Where are you really from?) Those are way better questions to get to really know someone and build connection (Thanks, I'm stealing them!)
I am sorry. I also very much like to ask where are you from. I think it is so interesting, where did someone grew up, what do they think. Is my knowledge of the world a bit improved. I did have a friend who was very uncomfortable with that same question as well and she just answered where her current adress is. That was the hint for me that I have to wait for someone else to feel comfortable to share that kind of information. I can also be very stupid and not pick that hint up. I am sorry if you met people like me who might have a moment where they are being ignorant and oversee how personal that question actually can be.
Another excellent interview, David! I've felt the pull of multiple identities myself over the years and basically just leaned into it over time. I've found myself more often at home with expats or former expats than with Americans who never leave the country (although it is a lot of effort and expensive so I understand). Perhaps it's because I've always felt a tug-of-war between cultural identities that can be at odds sometimes so the outsider status seems more natural to me. It takes a lot to give up an American passport! I'd be very reluctant to do it because of how hard it is to get it in the first place. Horror stories about dealing with American immigration are abundant and pop up more now due to recent layoffs. I was privileged to be born with the citizenship and I know it is a PITA to deal with overseas taxation. But lots of people would gladly trade for my position so I'd have to really want to stay abroad for life if I wanted to do it, just like Skylar. Hope you had a merry Christmas and have a Happy New Years! I went traveling in Europe and it was probably a really good decision considering the winter storm chaos I would have run into in America haha. Vienna is a beautiful city and was my favorite spot. Easy to see why people fall in love with that city (at least as a tourist. I have no other perspective after all).
Hey happy holidays Chris! Always appreciate your insights. Yeah I don’t know if I’d ever give up my passport (but then again…the double taxation does hurt)…but permanent residency. Are you considering that? And thanks so much for the “coffee”! They will go towards coffees for people I interview next 🙏😁
@@hidavidwen I really don't know yet. I'm on the blue card visa which is valid for 4 years but relatively easy to renew in my field. I figured that would be a good "trial period" before making any long term decisions. You're welcome for the coffee! Maybe we can get one in person if I visit Amsterdam haha
This interview is really interesting cause I always say that there will be times when it will be rude to ask anyone where he/she comes from. I come from Malta where in a few years the country became multinational and I feel that whoever chooses to live in Malta is making the country theirs, their home. Asking such a person where you come from might be uncomfortable because countries do not make a person.
Thanks Leonard, that is true-where someone comes from doesn't make that person. I think it depends how you ask the question...like anything...which can make it rude or just out of curiosity =)
This was such an interesting interview. It makes me look at myself and my dutchnes aswel. Eventhough I am a born and bred Dutchy it stil makes me think about how others perceive me. I love that other people feel like our country feels like home. Eventhough there is still alot that we can do to make life better for everyone here, I do feel like we are still going into the right direction despite of the growing pains we are experiencing right now. I hope that everyone could feel like they are at home regardles of where they are in the world. Like your guest I feel like I am a citizen of the world and even though being Dutch is verry much a Part of my Identity it is more like the cultural aspect that has formed my personality, my norms and values than the actual place itself.
Thanks for sharing again Kelly. I like what you said about making everyone feel like home regardless of where they come from...I think that's what we should strive for as humans on this planet...to be global citizens...that would definitely make the world a better place =)
A very interesting conversation, very well done. I was born in the Netherlands and still live here, allthough I travelled quite a bit and lived for two years in other parts of the world, as I am very interested in other countries and cultures. I grew up in a village in friesland, I was the only kid with a darker skin, brown eyes and hair. The other children were typically frisian, blond, with bleu eyes and all going to church (where I did not). So I didn't belong at all and I felt that very often groing up. Because of my mother I spoke dutch and not frysian (which is one of the official languages) and people called me out on that, thougt I was arrogant. How a small country can get even smaller. So a lot of times I did not want to be associated to being dutch, I was a citizen of the world, at least a European. The times I did (and do) feel very dutch are when I read dutch literature. I love the language when someone knows how to write. A lot of times I feel embarrassed to be dutch, when other dutch people behave rude or stupid and defend the tradition of black piet with sinterklaas. Sometimes I feel proud to be dutch, when I see the appreciation of people around the world for technical and engineering projects (like the Deltawerken), because I can see now how exceptional they are. I also feel a little proud, watching this nuanced interview, that an intelligent and interesting person as Skylar wants to become a citizen here. Thank you David, you have given me a lot to think about!
I'm sorry to hear about the pains you had growing up here. But I can at least say, that's an issue everywhere, just not always for the same reason. Especially kids are cruel and the more you stand out from the crowd, whatever that may be, the more you can be a target. I know my (Dutch) mom had issues with it growing up with a different religion than was the norm in the village, but luckily times have changed a lot in that specific respect. It is a sum of how one might stand out, how much diversity is there in general, the specific community or school, etc. I've found myself unlucky in some of those regards and lucky in others. (I also grew up in a village, but I'm a typical Dutch person, in appearance at least) I just hope, growing up here eventually your experience has changed for you, or if not, will. My extended family is quite diverse, but moving on in life, the people around me have very much become more and more varied in nationality/religion/sexual identity/etc. In the end it just enriches life.
In Friesland it's about being Frysian or not. If you speak Frysian you are Frysian, it's not about the colour of your hair or skin.
@@DenUitvreter It is when they call you monkey or peanut
@@timmypunt3565 I agree with you on this. It is not that I suffered, really, I just didn't fit in and I did not feel at home because of that. When I was 17 I moved out and went to live in city, went to school there and it was completely different. Right now I live in Groningen and I do feel very much at home.
@@maidenekker Ah yes, my lil brother and sister studied there, along with some friends of mine. So I've been there often. Very chill student city. I've been born I province down, grew up and studied another province down. Now in Amsterdam, moving to West-Friesland this week.
That was a much more philosophical discussion than I was expecting. I too am from the US and interested in becoming Dutch, so my mind is currently on the practicalities. Perhaps once I'm on the other side I'll engage more in the deeper questions of identity. :) Lovely interview and thanks to you both.
Thanks Nikki. Skylar is a deep person. So am I =) Good luck to you Nikki!
I emigrated from The Netherlands to Mexico in 1980 and gave up my Dutch nationality in 1985 and became a Mexican citizen. My wife and 2 children are Mexicans and I was the only "foreigner" in the house. Also being a foreigner in Mexico had certain restrictions e.g. you could not buy property within 10 kilometers from the borders or beaches, work wherever you want, start a company, etc. There was a 3 year period, back in early 2000, during which I could have regained my Dutch citizenship, keeping my Mexican citizenship too. I didn't do that, because for me, it would have been a kind of regret and that simply doesn't go with my character. So, 31 years Dutch and 43 years Mexican. No regrets.
I think it is harder for any adult to get close friends that are new, even if you are dutch. So of course immigrants who come here as adults will have a hard time, a cultural divide makes it even harder because you do not read the situation as well. I don't think that's an especially dutch issue though, I think that's the same in other countries. But they do say that when you do make a dutch friend and are invited into their home it's very solid and reliable. My godmother married a guy from India and he was accepted into the family just like she was based on friendship. To family reunions, birthday parties etc.
Thanks for sharing =) Yeah, it's hard to make friends when you get older too. Yeah...I do hear that once you make a Dutch friend, they are solid friends
There are different ways in which I identify, based on where I lived and grew up. I feel like it’s easier for an outsider to feel like they belong to a certain city versus a country of province. Personally, I feel like a foreigner living in the Netherlands for many years, speaking the language and knowing the customs would be Dutch, but they could never be Frisian (where I’m from). It’s also a much easier and a quicker process to become “from Amsterdam” than to become Dutch. I guess it all hinges on how many foreigners or outsiders are currently present in a certain culture or subculture. I mean, I think it’s the same that any Dutch person moving to Urk or Volendam, who would forever be an outsider, even if you grew up in a village right next to it.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah true...there are many regional differences too...one could feel like an outsider by moving to another city. How different is Frisian vs. Dutch culture? I'd love visit one day and learn more...
Very good interview. I don't think it's possible for anyone to feel completely adopted in or by the new country or nationality, any other nationality, when you've grown up somewhere else. There is always the place you came from. That is not a bad thing, not at all. For the most part it's just a feeling, coming from your own self perception. One question/item I missed is: How do Americans react when an (ex-)American is telling (in the US) that he/she has given up the American citizenship?
Thanks Albert. True...thanks for sharing. One may never truly "feel" integrated...and that's OK. Someone else mentioned being a global citizen. I can relate with that. I think everyone will have different reactions. There's always a reason behind someone giving up their citizenship. And that reason is contextual and personal.
It’s funny I see this video because if it wasn’t for my job I would’ve moved to Amsterdam right away as I heard so many great things about it. It sounds to me that they have the best quality of life and the environment is very laid back and friendly where nobody will judge you for your lifestyle. I am however considering retiring in Amsterdam or Tokyo when I get older.
No country or nation is perfect but one can see where counties are making/not making decisions on what they want to be. I am approximately a decade away retiring and will choose where that will be (a luxury). David has done a lot to share some clear cultural differences in the Netherlands not routinely covered by bloggers. His blog/personal journal appears to be slowly evolving as his time in the Netherlands grows longer. Good luck.
The quality of high is quite high indeed. Well you can never predict life and maybe see you here sooner than you think. Thanks for watching!
@Chris Oh wow a decade away. How does that feel? Let me know what topics you may be interested in learning about as well!
@@hidavidwen It's not quite a decade away. I maintain homes on each coast in the United States and will begin transitioning to the Netherlands in a couple of years and end one property in America (spending more time in the Netherlands each year). I like to transition to new places (just to be 100% sure) and this one will be extremely challenging for me as I want minimal mastery of Dutch and begin decluttering N.A. assets (which is scary). Your site helps the process. 🙏
The best quality of life? Try to ask some born and bred Amsterdam person. You know one of those who can't afford to live in their hometown any longer due to all the foreigners wanting to live there.
Very interesting interview. Skylar is quite right about not wanting to be placed in a box, qua gender, nationality, identity etc. I also believe in being a global citizen and embracing people for whomever they are. Perhaps looking at the World as a global citizen might bring World peace. 🍁 🇳🇱
Thanks Ellen. Yeah true...it's very easy to just place people in boxes...whether it's nationality, ethnicity, personality...but we're all different as humans. Yes, I'd call myself a global citizen too! Happy 2023
@@hidavidwen have a fantastic 2023 David.
it is however a contradicting thing to discuss if someone can be accepted as a real Dutch or be accepted into another culture/country and at the same time saying "I'm a global citizen" or "I want to be a European citizen"- maybe it's tome to think that may be why you can never really be Dutch-because you don't really want to be Dutch -there is no such thing as a common European culture , there is huge difference between being Greek or being Danish and that is wonderful!!!
No, this global citizenship idea is just privileged people claiming the right to go live in places other people have made nice and move on to the next place when they are bored with it, found a better place or made the place to be less nice. They don't want to be in the same boat together with other people, they don't want their fate to be connected to the place they are. It's borders and citizenship that allow for democracy, rule of law justice, social cohesion and in the Dutch case cycle lanes. In order for a government to serve the people it needs a defined people to serve, so a people with it's citizenship, and a territory to have jurisdiction on, so borders. The Netherlands has become a nice place to live because it was the only place to live for the Dutch so they made an effort to make it nicer. If they all felt global citizens and moved to a better place there would be no nice Netherlands to go and live, there wouldn't be a nice place to live anywhere, just people searching, moving away from places no one made any effort for. Identity is a whole other issue, a personal one. Citizenship is a legal matter, a matter of social contract and benevolent government.
Well said. The war in Ukraine is so alien to me in times when borders are falling. I am Maltese my grandma was English. My wife is from the US, and my brother is married to a Russian. My nephew marries a girl from Sweden and we all live in Malta a country where 25% are foreigners. My postman is Italian and can hardly speak English, going to restaurants, hardware stores, and supermarkets are all run by foreigners. Calling a government department, same you are asked to speak English. For me, war makes no sense. Russia is at war to expand its border whereas in my country there are no borders.
I don't think I've met any Americans here that renounced their citizenship. I do know of some Dutch people who were born in the states who gave up their citizenship because of the incredible inconvience surrounding the American tax system. Some people have had their assets frozen on behalf of the IRS because they had never paid taxes in the US, despite never having worked there.
Yeah it’s a rarity indeed…I know a few know but still the minority…
My dear David, you don't have to 'look for your identity'. You are a beautiful and smart human being, with quite a load of spiritual bagage already. I have watched quite a few of your vids and I keep wondering: "Why is this guy in HR? He seems like an anthropologist, studying American - Dutch behaviour." I know in the US people get indoctrinated 'to get the best out of themselves', which results in a society where people tend to fake most of the time, resulting in unhappiness. You don't need to do that to be you. Just be your wonderful self. Be open, sincere with your emotions and honest with your thoughts and detach yourself from everything and everyone that stands in the way of this sincerety and honesty. Between success/money and happiness, always choose happiness. And happiness comes from being content with what you have, not from hoarding money and being successful. Saludos de Carlos from the Netherlands.
Thanks for the kind words, Carlos =) Happiness does come from within and being content. And grateful. And so I'm grateful to read your message. And about being in HR...haha. So I work in the " people/career development" side of HR and I work to help people develop skills and grow in their careers...and I talk to and coach a lot of people so it is kind of like being an internal anthropologist! But I get you...my dream job growing up was to be a National Geographic photographer!
There is something fundamentally inherent about nationality that we don't seem to fully understand: that nationality is first attributed to us by others, and not by ourselves. Each country has their own way of determining who is an insider and who is an outsider. For many cultures, race, ethnicity, nationality and citizenship are one and a single thing (such as in Japan), whereas for others, each of these elements can be sufficiently separated and individualized, with no damage to one's sense of belonging to that country. The Netherlands is one of those countries where, to be considered fully Dutch by others, you need to be at the very least ethnically Dutch or Frisian, and have the Dutch nationality (that is, being born and raised in the country). Citizenship matters the least, and race matters a tad bit. Not every country is like this: In Hungary, you are a Hungarian first and foremost if you can speak Hungarian fluently. Being born and raised in Hungary matters little since the country has many of its people living in neighbouring countries because of the Treaty of Trianon. In Central and Eastern Europe, people are not used to multiracialism as people in the US are, so I would suggest that being racially white is also something important to be considered Hungarian. I perfectly understood when Skylar said that the Dutch attitude towards him was "Great that you're so well integrated here, but you're not one of us".
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughtful perspective!
As a foreigner living in NL we will never be 'one of them'. A neighbour moved to France, he spoke the language and was surprised that I, being British and having lived here at the time 25 years wasn't 'Dutch'. We can live here for most of our lives, speak the language and integrate but even with a Dutch passport we will never be Dutch! You are what you are and that doesn't change with a passport.
Thanks Anne. We are what we are! Yes =)
As an open-minded German and accepting of other races and cultures in a general sense, I also accept the reality that I will always be a German, no matter where I go, and no matter what I feel and no matter what my life looks like, and it's ok. We will always be part of the race and the folk that we are genetically born into, but it‘s not the most important thing about us. But rather, how do we live in the world, how do we treat ourselves and others.
Thanks for sharing your experience and opinion!
@@hidavidwen Thank you for following up on your curiosity and sharing you experiences!
Not one single time , uh , oh , you know , brilliantly put and elaborated , just very nuanced and weighed. As a Dutchie emigrated to New Zealand , came back as so many!! , but indeed , becoming "one of them" , no this wont happen , it is human...they and us... but making it your personal sphere or home , yes ,that can work , but there must be a visible bottomline from where your adopted culture is able or willing to "incorporate " you in your migrant status. Conversely one needs a minimum of socio- cultural connection to the place to build up that " home feeling " over time. There you have the difference to "expats" who "move" out of career or expedient reasons without committing. Last but not least your new country must be able to secure you a reasonable outlook to economically build your life. Thereby at least recognizing that , sorry, there is a difference coming from a European background than let's say Ghana. New Zealand for me and endless many others could not remotely meet these requirements. So , for you here in NL , yes you have acquired not only NL citizenship but importantly EU citizenship as well. Which means a LOT in this disheveled world...Welkom!
Thanks for sharing Geert!
"What does it mean to be Dutch?" is an interesting question because historically it doesnt mean one single thing. Throughout the 19th and a large part of the 20th century Dutch society was shaped in the form of pillars, the "verzuiling" model. Different groups like Protestants, Catholics, Liberals, Socialists and so forth all forming their own "pillar" . This went pretty far. Each of these pillars were represented by their own politcal party, church, schools, newspapers, radio stations, later TV networks etc. You can still see remnants of this everywhere. Take the municipality of Edam-Volendam, about 15 miles north of Amsterdam. Although the towns are grown together and look like one town on a map, they are completely different: Edam is Protestant, Volendam is Catholic. Volendam even has its own dialect. Even when you speak perfect Dutch, good luck understanding 2 locals from Volendam when they have a conversation. Some media networks can also be identified in this way like the KRO, an abbreviation for Catholic Radio Network or VARA, meaning Association of Workers Radio more or less, the Socialist network. So from a historic perspective, being Dutch could mean many things. Even the Royals are not exactly a symbol of "Dutchness". Historically the Socialists didnt like them at all of course, and the Catholics saw the pope in Rome more as their ultimate "head of state". And before 1813 the country didnt even have a king, it was of course a republic for a couple of centuries. This diversity really translates well to the here and now of course, now that the country has become way more international because there never was one way to be Dutch to begin with. So "Are you being accepted by Dutch society?", or "one of us" are not really things that relevant i'd say. There never was one single Dutch society and there most definitely never was an "us". Even today, many Dutch are from oversees, Surinam, Indonesia, the Antilles. And more recently many from countries like Morocco and Turkey. Is a black person from Surinam less Dutch than a white guy from Leiden? I'd say no, Surinam has been part of the Dutch Empire for centuries. That guy from Surinam may be more Dutch than the white guy from Leiden. This might be hard for an American to understand. We dont swear allegiance to the flag or stuff like that, the Dutch never been nationalists at that level. It always has been a very loose and fluid culture with people from all corners of the world doing their own thing. Even in the Seond World War... Many Dutch decided to side with the Germans, even joining their army while others joined the resistance and tried to blow them up, while others simply didnt care at all, just did their jobs and waited till the storm would pass. So, even to determine which side the country was on in that conflict is more nuanced than it might seem. The misunderstanding is that expats, like Americans, who come in with lots of training in to high skilled jobs, mostly move to Amsterdam, or at least the Randstad area and perhaps think that this is "Dutch Culture" while it would be more correct to say that thats ALSO Dutch culture but a very specific part of it. And of course understandably but mistakenly think that this is what it means to be Dutch. But a guy like David may in reality be a lot more like a university graduate from Amsterdam while both differ wildly from a person from Limburg who is a decendent from a coal miners family. Yet the latter could quite well be way more Dutch than the first two people from Amsterdam yet have little to do with them in any way.
Thanks for sharing...you have a good point...there are regional differences too...and often in the media, there is a overrepresentation of Amsterdam/The Randstad. I mean to be honest, I'd never heard of Limburg until I moved and lived in Maastricht (I had a great time there!)...but there is so much more than The Randstad. And yeah the identity thing...well what we know from history is that it is one of immigration through time...and very likely, in 1000 years...who is "Dutch" may also be very different =)
There are exceptions I read. Does anyone know about keeping an american citizenship while becoming dutch through naturalisation?
If we want to add to the list, he's also a EU citizen. 🙂 In biology boundaries are not as clear, everything is on a range. Even in IT, where everything is dominated with binary, their is not just 1 way to do something. Their are only vendor recommendations and best practices.
I would but they make it too difficult.. I'm 83% Germanic gentically and probably more Dutch than most people in the Netherlands today and while my name is also a Dutch name... but it would be difficult for me to go back to my origins because of the rules... It alsmost seems like discrimination to me.. I have to wear a Dutch name, be harassed for it in the US, but can't move the Netherlands..
You get harassed for your name?
I didn't understand why he needed to give up his US citizenship... couldn't have all of them together?
In most cases...US doesn't allow dual citizenship. There are several exceptions. He didn't fall into one of those. But yeah...people do give up US citizenship for many reasons such as financial reasons (eg. you still need to file/pay US taxes). Thanks for asking!
Netherlands has the best quality of life 🤩🇳🇱
It is indeed quite high after being here 4 years...
So an American that´s now officially a EU citizen. He has the privilege to travel visa free in all EU member states like anyone else here and throughout Europe. I do notice a lot of Americans moving to Europe for a new life and their personal reasons for doing so. Its fascinating to learn about their reasons to give up American Citizenship for a European one.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah it's also fascinating for me to learn. I guess it shows...we all have different reasons and there's not only "one path"
@@hidavidwen And what is your decision for doing so?.
Dutch people don't like American politics and the culture that surrounds that to be implemented into our society. With all due respect to this gentleman, most average day people here don't like identity politics and so on. In Amsterdam, they're more open to that, but from my personal experience, which is only anecdotal, basically all "normal" workers, either don't even want to discuss it or simply don't want to spend a single second of their time on something so useless as that.
Thanks for sharing
Being born in a country and staying there is a lot easier than not staying there. You will not become an 'insider'. You will remain an outsider looking in.
Born and raised in the Netherlands, parents on both sides Dutch Seven Generations, 😢Never felt a part of the Dutch Culture, our entire family living all over the world, Finally decided that the USA will be our adoptive Country😊Yes! You can have the American Dream! Income, Housing, Education. So happy our family made the move to the USA! Soon we all are going to become US Citizens 👋😊 🇺🇸 👌
Best of luck to ya!
Thanks for dispelling the misinformation that this grifter is spreading.
when I see here in Belgium (im Balkan guy originally) American people than first I start thinking which race are or from which European r Asian people mixture. When they ask this guy about identity he don't say nothing about his DNA and origins of his family. Also another US people probably. So they don't have identity. This guy looks pretty Dutch to me.I work before in the place where I can meet 265 different nationalities, so im always interested in the roots of the people. Anyway nice video. I love Dutch language but to be open like Dutch people not. I prefer more Flemish mentality.
Thanks so much dee for sharing. I also don't know his "roots," but yeah in the US...people are from "everywhere." And there is a difference between nationality and ethnicity like you said. Hm...I don't know much about Dutch vs. Flemish mentality...what is the difference?
@@hidavidwen They speak same language Nederlands, but Dutch are more free and open and they say evenrityng they have in his mind and Flamish people are more closed, on distance but also nice people. Dutch people are tall and have bigger heads, more red in the face, loud speaking , Flemisch oposite. But one think is same, they think first about eveirthing and they plan everithing. I like Balkan guy dont think much abbout consecqueces and i dont plan nothing. I just let it be. Heheheh. Regards.
People make life way too complicated
A lot of Americans I think feel this way, they don't have a sense of identity or even culture for that matter. Most people are too busy with their lives to really think about this question, though.
Netherlands does not have the same DRACONIAN TAX LAWS or RESTRICTIONS on OFFSHORE INVESTMENTS like America on its citizens!
I applaud this person for ecsaping the slave plantation that is the so called land of the free it's not. American Citizenship is nothing more than a slave card. Other than that a great video keep up the great work David👍 Also Happy New Year let's hope this year will be a great and better year😊
Happy new year Didier
@@hidavidwen I have a question for you David do you still have to pay taxes to the Divided States of America even though you live here in the Netherlands? If so than you are still a slave to the Divided States of America. I am a Dutch citizen but if i ever decide to live in another country i don't have to pay taxes to the Netherlands European people have way more freedom than American citizens well unless they immigrate to the Divided States of America then they will become slaves to the Divided States of America. I know David the truth can be a hard pill to swallow America is not the greatest country in the world and it's definitely not the land of the free far from it.
anyone can be dutch these days. the term "dutch" doesn't mean anything any more. it's like american or canadian
All Latin America, Caribbean, Mexico, Canada and United States are part of the American continent. Therefore, to refer to people who were born in the United States of America as American is incorrect. America is the official name of a big continent. We are all Americans not just people who were born in the United States.
According to what you say, someone from the USA is an American, so can be called that. It’s just that people from other American countries are also American. That doesn’t mean that someone from the USA is not American. It just means that the title American is not exclusive.
Thanks for sharing. You're right. And MM1989 is right too. There was and is no intention here to exclude all those other countries from the term "American", but thanks for sharing your point
I think I’d just get a dual citizenship.
Wish that was possible! Not for all nationalities
My wife is a US citizen and she also retained her passport when she got her EU-Malta passport. Cannot understand why he had to relinquish his US citizenship.
@@leonardell-bon7104 in the Netherlands dual citizenship isn't allowed
@@010JordiI have a Canadian friend who acquired Dutch citizenship as an adult because her mother had it. She did not have to renounce her Canadian citizenship and so is a dual citizen. In that case anyway, dual citizenship is allowed.
That's not always possible.
Was he born into a dutch family and thats why he chose Holland?
That’s a different story :)
DUTCH CITIZENSHIP does not have CITIZENSHIP BASED TAXATION like US CITIZENSHIP!
Double taxation is no fun :(
What it means to be Dutch. To be called a cheesehead or how its called in English XD hahah
Why the Netherlands, of all the countries, you could have chosen France... Zimbabwe, any country..
Why not the Netherlands?
France, really?
I would say the Netherlands isn't a bad choice, it's at or near the top of many comparison lists. And if you want to compare most of the time above France as well. That said, I feel the Netherlands is dropping on the lists. Now how NL dropped on the Press Freedom Index seemed to not fit how I would think of it.
For the world leading bike infrastructure . . .
Dude that can't figure out who he is, is complaining about not feeling accepted, maybe figure out who you are first mate.
They are non-binary. I hope your comment comes out of a good place though. It's not easy to figure out one's identity...especially in a society that tends to put labels on people. They are human. And we all just want to belong. Take care.
No.
No?
Welkom
First
Hey Josh! Hope you have a great 2023!
Very confused individual
Interesting. I'd prefer a Dutch citizenship but I'd also prefer living in the US