WEIRDEST Toyota in the WORLD?? (Part 1 - Flashing CEL, Clicking Dash & Display, Wonky TEMP Gauge)
Oh this one is going to be FUN!!
One of the WEIRDEST Cars that I have EVER seen in my life!
This 2004 Toyota Avalon actually drives pretty well.
It drove over 3 hours from West Virginia on the highway to get to PHAD.
But it is truly POSSESSED...there is a GHOST living inside.
Owner tells me it all started with a wonky TEMP GAUGE that pegged to the RED half a year ago.
The dash started clicking, Check Engine Light flashing, along with the center display!! WHAT?
Now it also has a habit of STALLING repeatedly on a cold start.
There is a code stored...for a Transmission Solenoid?
This car has been to several specialty shops, as well as his local Toyota dealer for this crazy problem. Everybody is completely STUMPED!!
Step 1 when dealing with so many different symptoms is to take the car for a drive and TAKE NOTES.
Any interesting correlations? Are all these problems tied together?
Get some popcorn for this Toyota...
THINKTOOL PROS:
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TOPDON TORNADO 90000 BATTERY CHARGER:
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Enjoy!
Ivan
Ivan “this is the coolest thing ever “ customer NO, NO it isn’t 🤣
It’s always entertaining when it’s not your car that’s possessed
I would bet Ivan would buy this Car only because it is so cool and drive all day with the "Clikys"
I always laugh whenever Ivan or Eric O. says "Yes! It's broken!" When they are trying to diagnose an intermittent problem.
@@JDel709 And when they find it, "There's your problem, lady."
😂😂😂😂😂
Toyota dealer, "you need a new car" Ivan, NOPE, I do actual diagnosis.
We'll touch on what the Toyota dealer actually recommended after we fix this ghost ;)
Nice car! This is literally the stuff of my nightmares....like really, I'm driving my Avalon, and lights start flashing, I see warnings I've never seen before, and it starts falling on its face. Then I wake up and go to the garage to find the car sitting there peacefully.
🤣🤣🤣
There aren’t too many things better on KZhead than seeing a Pine Hollow alert with ‘Part 1’ in the title!!!
I'LL WRENCH TO THAT!! 👍👏👏👏
The fact that the guy drove it three hours without putting his fist through that clicking annoyance is what amazes me the most....
Based on other Camry drivers, he must be blind. 😉
Doesn't it stop when the car is in "drive?"
Anytime something turns on and off very quickly like that it's always a power or ground supply issue, same thing when you have a dead battery and try and crank the car and it makes that extremely fast clicking sound. What happens is the circuit turns on and draws the power supply below the voltage required to hold in the relay or solenoid contacts and then the circuit shuts off and the voltage supply goes back up and re-latches the relay or solenoid and this just continues and continues. Almost without fail it's a ground issue or a power supply issue. Sometimes back feeding is involved where the circuit tries to find a ground path through a light bulb or something else and that just adds extra fun to the diagnosis 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The display says April 1. The car is just pranking you!😂
Plus April 1 was a Monday, not a Tuesday. That must be the problem.
It got a new job as a turn signal
@@lukerudolph1022 What year ? :-)
My thoughts exactly 😂
The display says Tue April 1. But April 1, 2024 was a Monday. The last time April 1 was a Tuesday was 2014. Very weird indeed.
29:57 Jumper cable from battery ground to engine block.
Since you can see fuel pump relay glitching my next step would be to install a relay breakout between fuel pump relay and fuse box. Then monitor the power & ground on the control portion of relay with oscilloscope and see if its the power or ground dropping out. Really enjoy seeing how you work through these problems and it helps me in my work as heavy truck mechanic.
Yepper
I am an automotive technician and I stive to be a actuate as Ivan
Love those breakout devices
Only a minute or two in, and i can say I have already seem something similar. There is probably a ground out that is re-routing power as a result through the 4 way flasher module, which is why it is flashing.
Interesting thought... The cadence is very similar to a turn signal! 🤔
I would start by turning as many electrical accessories on as possible and see if all systems are affected. For example if the running lights flicker, the blower motor speed fluctuates, or the ac compressor cuts on and off you know it's something that affects the whole car, not just certain systems. That can help save a lot of time when determining what to look for.
Hey Ivan, we had a 2002 Aussie Ford in the workshop at one time. The Instrument cluster would go nuts with things flashing on & off, the temp gauge with a mind of it's own, tacho bouncing etc, very similar to what you have there. The problem only existed with the engine running, the car ran great with no apparent issues except a stall at idle sometimes. The problem turned out to be inductive spikes from the ignition coil pack, we changed the coil pack & everything was perfect once again. It did take some head scratching to work it out. This may not be related but it reminded me of this problem Ford.
I paused the video at 13:01 and all I can say is this is very similar to an issue Eric O. had on a 2019 Tahoe/Yukon that had a bad ground on the frame that had been corroded by salt. Apparently, you are providing a ground by changing positions with the transmission switchgear, etc. Seems like Steven King wrote a book about a car like this, but it was a 1958 Plymouth. Just goes to show you all cars have issues, even the ones that have a "T" on the front. Ivan, you are just facinated with the fact this car is behaving badly. I don't think I have seen you this excited in a long time. GREAT VIDEO!
Not an uncommon problem... I've heard service bulletins to check the body ground on older Ford trucks because the transmission ends up being the ground, this in turn eats away bearings when you drive and you keep getting repeat transmission failure.
Christine?
But the only thing why isn’t it acting up when voltage is under 14v
Scotty wouldn't believe this if he didn't see it.
@@paulsz6194 You got it.
The temp gage lost its damping for some reason- it is now showing ACTUAL coolant temperature which does vary as you go through different engine power ranges. NOrmally the system keeps this steady as long as within a given "normal" range.
Thank you PHAD. Appreciate your hard work in bringing us these videos.
I'd start by measuring voltage between the engine block and battery ground. A working alternator will stress that connection. Engine movement when going in/out of gear will mechanically test that connection.
I was thinking that too but it just seems too constant and reproduceable, any issue with a ground like that I have ever seen is generally far more intermittent. Having said that, I would have no idea where to look next. The wiring diagram would probably be a good start, see what controls that relay and what else it is connected to.
That was a similar deal as the story that I was telling you about a while back when I diagnosed & repaired my great uncles stepdaughters Australian built 1997 Ford EL Falcon Futura which was powered by Ford Australias "Thriftpower" 4 litre inline six cylinder engine. It was intermittently doing exactly the same thing & the engine was stalling back in 2022,it eventually needed to be towed to where I can fix it which was at my dads house because every time she would place it into drive then the engine would stall out. I found out the problem was under the steering column which was where the main ignition feed to the engines ECU & ignition system as well as the rest of the cars electrics was connected to a crappy aftermarket engine immobilizer which was actually what was causing that "clickety click" sound & flashing lights on the dash as well as a stalled out engine. The first owner did a bit of a botched installation by running the main ignition switch feed directly through the immobilizer unit instead of a relay switched by the module which was 25 years old & the electrical connectors which were used in house wiring they used to join the wires. I just cut the main yellow/red ignition wires then added an extension piece to extend the length of the wire then I soldered both ends together as how Ford originally wired it up at the Broadmeadows factory in Victoria. So I totally bypassed the aftermarket engine immobilizer/car alarm then the car drove flawlessly, she has been driving the car for the last 2 years without any problems. So in the Avalon,if there's no additional modules such as the engine immobilizer then it's likely going to be the ECU which is faulty,I know that in my 2002 model Holden VY SS Commodore I had a faulty ABS module cause the air conditioning system not to work or cut out as well as making the instrument cluster go haywire. So it was messing around with the body control module,in the Holden Commodores that faulty ABS module was also known to cause other problems like causing the alternator to overcharge the battery, etc !
Exactly what you said at the end of the video is what I would do next. Figure out what's connected between the relay clicking and the screen. Of that the check engine light went out for a bit. But none the less time to sit down n do ur research.
I remember an aftermarket fuel pump relay that was incorrect causing a similar issue way back and replacing it with an OE relay fixed the issue
I've seen something like this before. It turned out to be a poor ground between engine and frame. It was grounding through the drivetrain.
My hypothesis: the relay provides a ground path and when it’s fluttering the system is hunting for a ground.
Hi Ivan, love your work. My theory is this: You have a voltage regulation problem of some sort at or after the alternator. The car doesn’t like anything over 12 volts, which is what should be regulated to the 12v components such as the dash. Seems like that relay is not getting regulated voltage of 12 volts between it and the alternator. Noticed no clicking happens when you have the car running just off 12 volts battery signal. This is the route I would take. Check the voltage regulator on the alternator, and then trace voltage from that point in between the wiring where it leads into that relay. It could be the alternator regulator is bad, the relay is bad, or some of the wiring in between is causing the voltage not to regulate down to 12 volts so the system is happy like it’s supposed to.
Ivan back in the 80s. Volvo had a similar problem with them Temp and Fuel gauges. In Volvo's case it was a voltage stabiliser fitted onto the rear of the dash panel. Replace it and it was cured. Only saying.
I wondered if it was a voltage regulator too
That is a very important thing to do the way you scan for codes then look at live data. I am able to scan better because you showed me that. I appreciate you and wish you the best in life.
This is Ivan's "Top Best Thing" After Christmass!
“This is the COOLEST car ever!” Ivan’s version of discovering cheats in a video game. 🤣🤣🤣 I would scope the power and grounds at the instrument panel and that relay and go from there. This should be fun!!
The relay has GREEN on the contacts ! The fuel pump is a large current draw, and it is going on and off ,spiking the system. Keep going.!
It did sort of look nasty. And the position of it with salt-laden wet boots knocking it. Where is the cover for it? The carpet gets salty wet, and right underneath that relay. Change to the relay. Cheap even for Toyota's inflated prices.
Wouldn't you figure that would cause running issues, though? Car runs rock solid. Wonder if that truly is the fp relay.
@@disgruntledcanuck visible green . No idea where it woll lead. Could be something behind that relay or fuse box has more crusty green...Just a clue right now. I remember how a relay sounds when my battery cables got loose or the battery is low...click, click ,click click... Same sound, different solenoid...something to investigate .
Great video!! And I really enjoy all the fantastic input from the fans on similar issues and the experts out there. Thank you all!!
This a good one Ivan! I can’t wait for part 2!
Check the panel that the fuel pump plugs into. He stated the problem got worse when it rained. Plugged drain in the cowel may have water leaking into that area and its corroded.
Ran across one just like this, flashing clicking, stalling, the engine to body ground was bad, all green and flaking apart.
Very cool, i love the fact that you are excited by unusual problem cars. Eric and Bernie display a similar attitude. Its something i try to emulate when i am faced with a broken car, it puts you in the right frame of mind. Interestingly, looking at the diagrams, that looked to be the C/open relay you pulled. So the next logical step would be studying a wiring diagram to see whats connected to that relay. I am waiting impatiently for part 2. Thanks Ivan.
That 'clicking' sounds like a 1960's TeleFax machine!
This car reminds me of a GM vehicle that I had many years ago. All lights flashed when moving the gearshift lever and at various speeds. The only ground was through the gearshift cable and/or speedo cable. Good body ground, bad engine ground, replaced the bad negative battery cable, the shift cable and the Speedo cable as they were cooked from the current.
My money is the installation of the “after market” radio.
I bought a low mileage Corolla with an automatic transmission once that acted crazy. It turned out to be the speedometer. I pulled out the cluster and replaced only the speedometer with a junk yard replacement and it drove like a new car. Toyotas are a different breed.
Guess it's time to pull a wiring diagram and see what's in common with that relay. I'm suspicious of the control side. Is it a power or ground issue that is in question or maybe a module. Can't wait for the next Video! Thanks for taking the time to post this one!
That fault is wild. Love it. Can't wait for part 2 :D
Wow, you don't see that every day! What a great case for your channel.
i remember a steven king roman,she drove herself just after midnite😂🎉christine
Wow that is a Very Strange Electrical Issue Ivan, Looking Forward to part 2
Love this diag so far. ❤
Here's my opinions... when it was stalling out you could hear the whine from the alternator when it was hooked back up. when you hear that familliar whine of the alternagtor in my experience its something drawling way to much current/amperage possibly a direct short to ground , but a dead battery can do this too if it wants more juice the alternator can provide. This usually makes the belt squeek or if its a near dead or dead short to ground it'll stall the engine it might not kill the battery but its enough strain on the electrical system to stall the engine after you hear the overloaded alternator start whinning . Im saying these seneros because vehicle electrical systems operates on DC current and don't like it if any form of AC current which will make things act wonky in so many differnt ways. Motors and light bulbs wont care about the AC on the system. Also .. An alternator turns the DC battery voltage into AC current as the engine spins the alternator and its Stepped up to anywhere from low voltage AC to lets say 120volts AC for example like residential electrical service But also its in a 3 phase star/delta configuration. There's a Diode package inside the alternator that takes the 3phase power and rectifies it back to DC its still not at battery voltage yet. and the rectifier also takes the 3 phase power and turns it into single phase power. at This point the power is not a clean DC power its almost clean its a pulsating DC current. AS the Battery can and will Filter the pulsating DC into a Clean useable DC current. as it has capacitive properties to it all that is needed to stop the pulsating DC and make clean DC is 1 or many capacitors that will smooth and filter DC output of the diode rectifier . Then sends it to the voltage regulator and is regulated down to 12 volts to 14 volts of semi useable DC. the regulator does add some filtering of the pulsed DC. The unclean DC doesnt mess with Things like if there is AC on the system. AC is an NO NO on DC circuits and devices. unless its powering a light bulb . Like Ivan said You'll need a OSCOPE to see the waveform on the system . AC will show up as noise and an actual sine wave depending on the severity of AC present. A clean DC signal will look like a FLAT line on the scope with a frequency of 100HZ. Pulsed DC will look like morse code with long and short dashes that alternate high and low. A Digital volt meter can show AC on DC systems but it can only show the voltage of the AC . You have to put the meter on AC to read AC on DC powerd circuits.
the original owner must have loved going to the club to hear some serious techno lol 😂
To the analytical mind, this is content GOLD! The problem is unique, the symptoms Many! Get after it, Ivan, and rock this car's ghost! 👻👻👻
love seeing you get excited over cars showing off SUPER weird behaviors but holy shit thats something that would make me leave the battery disconnected until its at the shop god knows what that electrical ghost would turn on.
Wiring diagram will be interesting to see what kind of power/ ground distribution this vehicle has, and what exactly powers up those relays. Can't say what my next step would be until I see a wiring diagram. Those older Toyotas can be very complex. Great job gathering evidence so far 👍. Looking forward to part 2.
Crazy stuff. Thanks Ivan!
I've still got like 90 min left in this saga but I'm gonna attempt a 1st quarter prediction of a failing relay with that clicking
I'm not gonna be able to sleep until I've seen part 2 Ivan. I'd love to work with you on this one. !
My money is on a cracked solder joint, and you make a “No Parts Required” repair. Also, I noticed an aftermarket radio……I like to quickly disconnect aftermarket accessories b4 diagnosing electrical gremlins. Just me.
Wow I can't wait for the final diagnosis on this one!
I see the dash date is April 1st - April Fool's Day ! Nice one Ivan !
Most Interesting ⚡⚡!!
Wiring diagram and see what controls that relay, and if it shares a power, say off a maxi fuse, with anything else. Same thing with the gnd. Does it share a common gnd. I'd have to start there. I think the trans code and coolant temp if true, may be separate issues. Who knows!?
Eric O did a similar video a couple years ago on a Chevy truck where the dashboard went ballistic. Solution: He installed a separate ground wire from engine block to chassis. My 04 Blazer did the same thing and the ground wire also fixed my run-away dashboard lights. Thanks Eric!
beat on the dash when it screws up....sounds like a shorted cable
Switch contacts under the steering column have given such a behavior when the contacts get dusty.
Man this seems all too familiar with a 2010 Honda crv with a bad ignition coil striking the computer randomly. Problem only occurred while running with cel flicker and random stall and it drove perfect with no misfires before changing the coil. I was getting a pcm internal fault code and etc relay control code. PCM and throttle body was replaced and it ended up needing #4 ignition coil. At least I know now the car has good powers and grounds to the pcm and the complete etc relay control circuit! Your symptoms are a bit different because the relay going crazy for me was the etc relay (throttle body) Cool car Ivan!
Electronics can do very weird things when components interact...the symptoms on this Toyota were quite entertaining...flashing, buzzing, but drove so smoothly!!
At a guess, there was a big clue in the email. Maybe a red herring but cudtomer said a garage had cleaned the earth and it went away for a day. Could that be a coincidence ? Certainly acts like a bad earth, now I've had a guess can't wait to see the outcome.
I want to know where to place my bet on when Ivan looses his finger nail!
That dashboard is like a bad Eastern European disco club!!!
“This is the coolest thing ever!!!” Haha love it!!
I would be curious to see power into and out of the ecu. But I agree with others that it could be a grounding issue. And, i have seen ungrounded aftermarket radios cause issues as well with power feedback through electronic circuits.
Have a 07 Buick Allure, did almost same thing, 2 yrs ago. Pulled the ECM (has a casing ground). Aluminum body was corroded. Wire brushed it and all dash/radio/keyless start issues vanished.
My guess is you forgot to disconnect the main bat charge lead from alt. The diode pack is bad in the alt and its allowing ac voltage to ripple in the line messing with the electronics. I would personally hook up a dvom on a/c scale and see if detecting 1v or more. Just because you unplug the reg plug...doesnt mean it cant ripple ac back through the main cable.
Fuel pump collar loose . It destroyed by proxy the relay . Often the wrong tube type on fuel pump is used
I would check the wiring going to the fuel pump for signs of damage or corrosion. I'm sure the car has a in-tank fuel pump but that doesn't mean the connection isn't damaged somewhere. The pump is shorting to the unibody. Possibly.
I like trying to guess as the vid plays. At 13.26 I'm wondering if the flickering is linked to the seatbelt reminder 😂
Throttle body on Toyotas do this too. No codes. Clean throttle body and recheck.
Detective Ivan on the job!
It's funny that many of us give you what to look for but since it's already found ,but this one is easy to diagnose because it's not intermitent . wiring diag scan, amps loads circuits check basic stuff for me.
In the movie The Sting I believe it was Pau Newman's character who stated thatthe perfect con was the one in which the target never knew that they had been swindled. Ivan, I congratulate you for running the perfect con. The smile on your face when you encounter a diagnostic dilemma clearly suggests that folks are paying you to do something that provides you with a degree of joy sufficient to warrant you paying them for the entertainment value you get while solving these problems.
I do enjoy my "job" ;)
Who needs all these electronics..Great video..
This is a really good case study. I'm not sure where to start looking just yet. But my first impression is that we may have a poor power delivery or ground issue to the BCM. Let's see what ALLDATA has for us.
My first thought was something shorts when the clicking noise is heard. Lowering voltage on other circuits. I would pull fuses one at a time or monitor individual circuit voltage.
An aftermarket radio could make big trouble in those Avalons.
That was my first thought as well. As soon as I saw the radio, I wanted Ivan to disconnect it and see how the car reacted.
Why, is there something integrated into the factory radio that needs to be replaced with some aftermarket add on? I know some Chrysler and GM vehicles had stuff integrated into the radio, but I can't remember what....
@@volvo09 The Gen2 Avalon radios still had tape cartridge players (they did add a "modern" CD player) and the "top end" JBL system with amplifier and subwoofer cannot be configured to make classical music listenable, only disco and metal rock. Plus, no Bluetooth, audio input plugs, GPS, and other now-indispensable features).
@@DaveGmn no, I mean like does the factory radio have an immobilizer or something in it? Or is it critical to the car in any way? The original poster said aftermarket radios are trouble in these cars, so I was wondering why? For instance I know some cars won't run if you remove the factory radio and they need another aftermarket box alongside the aftermarket radio to make it all work.
@@volvo09 Probably yes on the immobilizer for the XLS. No, on the XL, though it was an option. Aftermarket is trouble on the JBL system and pretty much requires a custom connector + wire stubs with correct ID on them + good wiring skills -- not a common add-on set for most DIYers. Ignition lockouts like immobilizers are not all that useful on Avalons -- really, how many 80-year-old car thieves are there? As some kid says farther down in these comments, it's a boring car. Sure is -- especially rarely any excitement at the mechanic's. And it's great on long trips.
my brother once had an oldlate 60's dodge where the fuel gauge would only work if the headlights were off. when the lights were on the gauge would go to empty. there was a bad ground on the tank float.
Crazy. Sweet problem! I guess I would do some swap Tronics with the relay and check the grounds at the ECU make sure they can carry current. Since the clicking sounds like a turn signal and since there is a reported rain issue I would wanna explore a weird backfeed problem.
In the beginning of the video The reason the problem improved when you put it in Drive is the RPM's lowered and put out less voltage
Just started watching @ 4:30. If it is anything like many older Hyundai's my bet would be the BCM.
I suspect a compromised main body ground. The thick ground cable from the engine block to the battery is likely fine since the engine cranks normally. The fuel pump and other items ground through the body of the car, and by removing loads, the bad ground may be able to pass just enough current to work. I figure the problem will be located at the body ground wire where it attaches to the negative battery terminal.
I was thinking Alternator just before you mentioned it because of the temperature gauge. I'm curios why you didn't check the DTC code yet. I saw a mention of the turn signal flasher and agree the clicking sound made me the think of the emergency flasher. Good head scratcher. I have a feeling you all ready have a good idea what it is. Are green boogers in our future? lol
I'm 3 minutes in and my guess is alternator/alternator wiring harness.
Check grounds and add extra. I had afew of those with bad ground and also alternator is going bad without any charging issues but lights flicker
I had an older mazda rx7 that was going batty. Tracked it down to thr center instrument cluster that everything seemed to pass through that had a boat load of cold solder joints. Fixed, no parts required.
Interesting one again :D My guess is something wrong with the wiring for fuel pump / fuel gauge, or ground related to them. That relay may be faulty too after all that crazy clicking :D
It's clicking at a rate that matches, The Who, Tommy, Christmas. It's singing that background vocal Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy...
I have seen some alternators fail from grease getting on the brushes would show high voltage old school 90s.
Engine to body ground issue. When it rains the complaint is a dead give away. Have seen this many times.
On my Hyndai Getz car, all the lights started flashing and clicking, I checked the masses between the body and the engine. I put a thicker new wire between the body and the engine, I took off the instrument panel and cleaned all the connectors. Also the ECU connectors. The gauge readings all moved to the end and zero alternately. letter errors. I cleaned all the test legs, relay legs and sockets. This both in the engine room and in the cabin. Apart from that, everything is as it should be. Conclusion, from time to time, all electrical connections on the car need to be mechanically and chemically cleaned.
Depends of where you live, what kind of atmosphere. Do you live close to the beach, or in a high humidity area? This is the first Hyundai Getz that is have heard to have this problem.
Cadence is key here, Fuel pump surge?, damper diode on relays? Harmonics? Capacitors? Coils? can all create havoc, remember the engine noise thru the radio back in the day and resistor sparkplugs? Yep fun little puzzle you got here, Curious to see what "ripple" is on the line if any? and pump amp draw? Looking forward for the fix. I had a diode glitching out a Parker drive one time and that took me a day to find it. lol Have fun it Ivan, It's magic.lol
My next step would to be to watch part 2 to see what you do.
My money is on a ground issue somewhere, locate clean and test every ground wire then start the diagnostic process if problems aren’t resolved
Right idea but wrong approach. We have to DIAGNOSE the problem BEFORE touching anything 😉
You need to sample the old 1943 cartoon of airplane gremlins. Bugs Bunny Falling Hare.
Alternate current paths raising voltage on a common path... happy hunting.
This one's a real cliff-hanger.
Crazy case, Ivan! At a first glance it seems that there is a bad ground return somewhere, and main consumers modulate other modules / relays. Very curious to see how this goes :-)
Definitely a weird one Ive! Could it be green crusties on a power/earth circuit somewhere? The rev-dependence is odd. Could that relate to varying alternator output thus supply voltage? Part 2 is gunna be interesting!
Clicking fuel pump relay would account for the start stall. Now hanging on the notifications for part 2. Really cool yer...except for the owner lol 😒😒 !