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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:16 Why care about power efficiency?
02:26 Platform (Motherboard & CPU)
05:34 Ultra small-form-factor PCs
06:18 miniITX Motherboards
07:41 Efficient mATX and ATX motherboards
09:22 Package C-States
10:34 Devices that prevent low C-States
11:43 Power supply
13:37 Storage
13:58 Sponsored segment
14:40 Storage (cont.)
15:27 To spindown or not to spindown?
17:30 Tiered caching
19:25 Outro
elmuz's Mover script: github.com/notthebee/infra/blob/29aacdb50ee28d3728b0fbcd542f2fa4d5396219/roles/filesystems/mergerfs/templates/mergerfs-uncache.j2 Hardwareluxx forum thread: www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/die-sparsamsten-systeme-30w-idle.1007101/ Hardwareluxx Google doc: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LHvT2fRp7I6Hf18LcSzsNnjp10VI-odvwZpQZKv_NCI Jeff Geerling's Petabyte Pi project: kzhead.info/sun/daann9Gvp3iVqJE/bejne.html LTT's SSD-only NAS: kzhead.info/sun/h7uLpqZwnZpuh3A/bejne.html Full build: - Supermicro SC833 - Fujitsu D3402-B11 - Intel Core i3-6100 - 32GB DDR4 2133Mhz - 1TB Crucial P100 NVMe SSD - 1TB SanDisk Extreme SATA SSD - 4xWD Red Pro HDD 8TB 7200RPM - 4xWD Red Sata SSD 2TB - Mellanox ConnectX-3 10Gbe SFP+ - ASM1166 6xSATA Adapter - PicoPSU 160W + Leicke 150W 12V 13A
@@techster1689 He touches on that in the video.. I think it would be great but could be costly as you'd need a laptop that has 2 nvme slots with enough lanes
Thanks for the links
Example with old China bitcoin miner is not a best one, because even old S5/S7/B8 miners is aprox 25.000 more efficient and consume 175.000x less energy comparing to even modern CPU ;-) all the rest is good and useful. We build and optimize server solutions for years...
Very useful info. How I solved it right now is having 3 i3 NUCs in a cluster with 1 i3 SFF Mobo with SSD storage, where I move loads to one if not needed and shut down 2 hosts. When I plan on using it more intensively, I spin both hosts up and it will load-balance automagically. One NUC is 15w top, 5w on no load. The TrueNAS i3 uses roughly the same.
@@MrLexhoya You know you should make a video/blog about this.. it's hard to grasp everything from 1 paragraph but it still seems quite interesting
I genuinely find power efficiency more interesting than high performance.
Then you should know, custom ASIC is 10.000++ more efficient vs multipurpose std CPU.
I'd absolutely love if there was a company that produced an appliance that is as power efficient as possible but maintains nearly the identical amount of performance to competitors or prior products. Like for example, instead of a 250W CPU we could theoretically have a 5-10W CPU with around the same performance and features will little to no noticeable difference. We need more efficient appliances with the same amount of computing horsepower instead of strongarm components that will blow a fuse if you even look at it wrong.
@@FatherlyFox that's exist and possible with cutting some useless functions and focusing on task goals. Like I mentioned upper fpga do their job already. Or limited arm/rockchip/realtek boards.
Same
@@FatherlyFox Apple has already sort of done it but without the modularity. I have heard Qualcomm has a project to produce something similar but we'd need something that had feature parity from a gaming and business pov I feel before that would really be viable.
Thank you! I can now convince my dad his house won’t become a power plant when I build my homelab
Alternatively you could make it a solar power plant! But yeah this is a good bunch of arguments.
Same. My roommates won't let me run my computer because it looks scary (Dell PowerEdge case) and they think it will with absolute certainty trip the breaker. Meanwhile they're willfully oblivious to the 1800 watts the space heater uses.
@@user2C47 My microwave combined with a coffee maker trips the breaker every second day when I inevitably forget that I can't use both at the same time.
@@VileStorms change it lol
@@potaetoupotautoe7939 Can't tear open the walls and replace the wiring in an apartment building so that it can support 20Amps.
I rarely ever engage after watching a video, but I have recently tried to do some research myself, and I had *a lot* of difficulty finding any good resources at all. This must have taken a very long time and it explains the relevant properties to look out for really well. Thank you for that!
I came here to say exactly the same thing!
Same, i dident even knew about PicoPSU´s before!
Same... 👍
As the 1 person who finds this useful :) thank you! In Australia, we are dying for better power efficiencies!
Trust me there's more people looking at their homelab wattage, you're not alone! :P
You're not alone at all and it's not just Australia
Yeah our power costs in Australia compared to the rest of the world. Fortunately we have great solar plans so we only really need to be worried about power usage at night
@@thecookeman Where I am we don't really.. so even with my off grid system I try to keep everything as low as possible because my panels + batteries don't last all night sadly
@@thecookeman how much per kw? i pay about 1 usd/kw
This actually is exactly the video I needed, thanks a bunch Wolfgang! I would have never found that spreadsheet otherwise!
I really enjoyed this video. I've been considering making a small home server, and regardless if I just piece together something from spare parts or go power efficient, your video gave me great ideas.
Greetings @Wolfgang, I just have to say that I'm amazed with all your videos. I love your detailed explanations and depth of knowledge. Thanks for sharing it with the world and please keep up the great work!
This is an underrated video. Your research into this subject was well done and extremely helpful. Thank you.
Wow Wolfgang! This is an amazing reference guide! Thank you so much for answering tons of questions i didn't even know i had!
Wonderful video! Thank you. This answers the questions I had, as well as questions I hadn't even thought of yet! I was about ready to deploy my first home server, but it idles at 72W with the two WD Blacks (don't judge, they were very cheap) only consuming 8W each. Now I know where to look in order to optimize it :)
This is SUPER helpful, thank you for all the time and energy you put into getting to where you are and then sharing it with us.
Hey Wolfgang, I have been looking for tutorial like this for a while. I love the analysis and learned a lot!
Love the video. Been seriously looking at replacing my old server with a lot newer for thw power efficiency. This was definitely helpful
As someone who is about to build my very first NAS and live in a country where our power bills literally cost an arm and a leg, this video is very helpful. I bought my hard drives yesterday and am going o do the setup and configuration today. Thank you for taking the time and effort to make this video.
You from Germany?
Thanks for this. I will eventually make my homelab server when I settle somewhere and I always wanted to make sure that it does not consume too much power.
Hey King. This is the first video of yours I've watched. Great considerations considering I'll be looking to build my first homelab soon. Scrolled through some of your other videos, just wanted to say your haircut in this one looks great, and thanks for sharing your knowledge. Cheers
Great Video! As a demonstration of how much a similar rated power supply can vary, I dropped from 37w to 29w idle by swapping out a bronze corsair 450w (1YO) to a gold (older) corsair SF450 supply I had kicking about. Testing it with just one sata ssd came down to 21w at the wall - not bad for a 8 year old Supermicro X10SLL Haswell setup with IPMI / E3-1271-V3 / 32gb mem.
Some really good points made here. Followed some of your advice & adjusted my spindown times similar to what you suggested. It's not a huge difference in terms of waiting for the drive to spin back up. 17:05 That did kill me! LoL Something about that noise, gets me every time Ha ha
So much excellent information, and just as I'm starting to spec a new home server. Thanks.
I started planning my homelab and this video is incredible.Thanks Wolfgang!
The best video I've seen. As a home lab builder this is gold!
I recently just moved to Europe and boy oh boy do I need this video. Thank you so much, Wolfgang for all the work you put into finding all this information out
Energy prices in the USA are skyrocketing. Electric and I just got my gas bill. Up about 50% over last year. Same usage.
I am *so* grateful for you to covering this topic and in such detail: I was coming round to the view that I was the only person in the world that cared about idle power consumption.... THANK YOU!!!
This video is so useful i've been interested a lot by home server lately with NAS. And i've watched your previous vids about it and they were very good and this one is perfect to know more about which parts to look at. Thanks man 👍 definitely be useful in the future Edit: also great memes
This is super useful. Thanks. Power is relatively inexpensive here (USA) but my energy costs have doubled in the past year. The local power company has some power reduction program but from anecdotal reports, it has been abused by the power company. I'd like to do a local-only version that controls all systems, shuts off idle systems either on demand or via schedule,
Such a well put together video, super informative and well edited. Keep it going!
I love it! I live in Germany myself and the high energy prices and the high power consumption of a server have always deterred me from having a server at home myself. Now I'm thinking about it after all. Thank you :)
What a great video! Exactly what I have been looking for! I am in Europe as well (Sweden) and the electricity prices really make you think twice before deploying anything that will draw power all the time.
13:52 Note that larger capacity drives generally have faster read/write, my 16TB EXOS 7200RPM drives have something like 250MB/s over SATA, if you are targeting power efficiency over IOPS you could get fewer larger drives, the up side is added room for expansion later. The downside is that re-building/resilvering an array can be harrowing if you dont have on-site redundancy, as re-building a 16TB drive can take days, and puts a lot of load on the remaining drives that were bought around the same time and have been in use for just as long as the drive that just failed If you dont have on-site redundancy, get more more smaller drives in software raid6/ ZFS-Z6 equivalent. With on site redundancy, i still recommend raid 6(lose any 2 drives without losing data) but you dont need as many drives to get the same usable storage, meaning lower power consumption. When buying drives i reccomend staggering their purchase and deployment. If you're moving from an old file server to a new one, i reccomend keeping the old file server up and running as redundancy, and after things are moved to the new server, wait a few months, then replace the drives in the old server with enough drives to give you redundancy for your main server. This waiting period also applies to if you are building 2 new servers. The reason i suggest spreading the ordering/deployment of the drives is that if they are all deployed at the same time, and one of them fails, that means they may all be close to failure, and re-building the array on the new machine might be enough to take down multiple drives, leaving you with only your backup server, and if they were purchased at the same time, and put through the same wear as the primary server, re-building the primary server may also render the secndary server's pool degraded.
Fantastic video, Wolfgang. I was searching for guidance on building a power efficient homeserver (since living in southern Germany...) and this helps out a lot. I was even looking into the hw forum but overlooked this thread.
This is the most interesting YT video I've seen this week. Before watching this video I did't even cared about how power efficient my server is. Now I'm very interested to build one just for fun :-) Awesome work sir!
Awesome video, I'm also probably a little too obsessed with power consumption on devices on my home network. Even relatively low-power smart home devices and SBCs can result in substantial increases in utility costs when running 24/7 and in numbers (smart bulbs, plugs, displays etc.)
All this stuff adds up, as I am finding. My electric bill in the USA has gone up by 25% in just one year, same usage.
Your work is definitely not in vain. I've been influenced by a lot of North American tech content that hasn't been focused on energy consumption and now my wallet reaps the energy bill consequences ;) thank you very much for sharing your own sound!
really out here acting like rampant consumerism is a "north american" thing...
I'm sorry to hear you see it that way. I was referring to the difference in energy prizes at that moment in time. Of course 'consumerism' occurs in many places outside of the north American continent as well, but I was not saying or implying that in any way, anyhow.
In the last 5 months I go on and off research on my little free time to get to a power efficient nas conclusion and my mind is dizzy from so much confusion and too much knowledge… I almost gave up till I found this video. You have no idea how much of a help is this. Thank you for all the really hard work you did on this and for all the information provided! Amazing! Just amazing!
This is gold! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you for the informative video, exactly what I needed during this odd period. What kind of hardware/software do you use to monitor your power usage?
I'm just starting to plan an home server for my new home where I'll move later this year and this video is very interesting, thank you very much !
Thank you for your effort in teaching & sharing your knowledge !!!
Great video wolfgang, I live in Denmark and have been struggling for years to get information just like this. The hardware information in this video is extremely useful, and I'd love to see an OS/software setup equivalent. I run Proxmox on my homeserver, and the PM community isn't very interested in the subject of low power servers. Also, any experience with spinning down ZFS arrays? Taking inspiration from this video I've started collecting parts to try another ultra-low power build (my current idles at 40watts), but it would be great learning from those who have already tried this.
> any experience with spinning down ZFS arrays Personal experience, I have an iMac running 24/7 with a Firewire-800 ZFS drive as my daily driver, it stores the movies I want to watch short-term. Long-term storage is a ZFS tower with 2 pools, 6x4TB for Blurays and 4x6TB for DVDs. If you're not currently using a pool, you can ' zpool export ' it and run ' hdparm -y ' on the drives that make up that pool. This pretty much guarantees those drives won't spin up again until you re-import the pool, as nothing will be trying to send I/O to them. But to save maximum money, I only turn the tower on during the weekend - when electricity is cheaper - and copy short-term movies over to my iMac.
@@kingneutron1Exporting a pool as archiving?
Nice video, thanks for sharing! What's that dashboard you have with your smart home equipment and media on 6:12? Looks so clean! Thanks, again!
great tech tips! filled with tons of great and useful information. i will DEFINETLY use at least one of these tips when making my home server soon :)
I’ve been waiting for a video like this for so long, thank you so much!
Power efficiency in consumer computer systems has improved by leaps and bounds in the 25 years I've been using them. I'm super impressed when I see desktop systems that can hit an idle point at or under 10 watts. I found my recent gaming boards though to not be as efficient, idling around 20 watts. What were you using to monitor power usage over time?
Great vid, just a side note. Being a "T" series CPU sometimes affects more than just TDP. For example, the i5 3470 is a 4core, 4thread part but the i5 3470T is actually a 2 core, 4 thread chip.
Huh, TIL
Thank you very much for this video, this is exactly what I was looking for some time in the past!
Great video. I need a low noise and low heat server due to space and sound limitations and there isn’t a lot of great information online about this. Thanks for making this
Fujitsu sponsor this man! He's the only tech youtuber who has mentioned you this decade.
The thing I’m most interested in, after idle power draw is the ssd cache tier. I hope you spend a lot of time in various ways to configure it adequately for like truenas and a few others if you could. Logistically I hope the ssd cache is transparent, where the nas shares always present the ssd first and then falls back to hdd. There’s also the annoyance of windows explorer wanting to generate previews or access key frames of video, which in my experience cause random spin ups of my nas drives.
I'm wondering if it would be better with two NVMe arrays instead of just one "cache" array. With true tiering you would write anything to the cache array - the data would be moved. But for things such as logs, containers, VMs, etc, they should probably stay on a none-cache NVMe array, then use another NVMe array for caching only (read/write). This would require a minimum of 4 NVMe SSDs. Maybe something for Wolfgang to look into when he gets his new SSDs...? I'm using an old silent tower server for testing TrueNAS Scale to see if I can get rid of my 8 bay Synology NAS, and replace it with a 2-4U rack solution. But finding silent rack servers (might need two; one server and one jbos rack case) aren't that easy (in Norway). I would love for my disks to be able to spin down though as 9x% of the disk usage is new data (last month).
Dave's Garage has a good video on caching
Nice to see a video in this topic. Because of the raising electricity prices I decided to replace my "big" media server (i3-4330) with a NUC with an Intel Processor J3455 + an external 3.5" HDD only to find out I have a lot to learn in this topic (and TDP means nothing in this case )as both machines draw about 20w in idle. It would be nice to see more videos on how to make hardware more efficient in the future.
Awesome video, man! As a beginner self-hoster from Germany I say big thank you! The part with snoring HDDs is hilarious )))
I'd go quite a bit further - start by first looking at this from a data-use viewpoint. I have been doing this type of thing for about 15 years as I was running in Australia where power was 3x the price of Canada. Eventually I realised that the best approach was a super-low always-on solution and then block archiving to a "usually off" system (not in standby but powered off). You can use WoL to wake the archival server and in the end I've found that the archival servers (I use N36L's) are on perhaps once a month for dumping or retrieval. I run a Pi 4b with a 2.5" drive via USB3 - does all I need to for "active use" material, downloading (e.g. aria2 downloading service provider), etc. It also lets me archive in a disciplined manner, albeit in a time consuming one. I'm not sure of your use case scenario here (sounds like you've got a lot of video footage for editing, etc.) so that may not work the same way but for most people I think it's crucial to think from the information management perspective first - how am I going to use this thing, is an all-in-one system better or is it better to split the systems up, etc. The other big advantage of splitting is that you can bring in a lot more horsepower when you really need it and quite cheaply. I don't need that much but I have an ESXi Xeon e3 (ancient system) that I fire up when doing tests, etc. and I even have a half-missing thinkpad which I built from parts (it has no screen, keyboard, etc) but I wake it and use its old i5 to chomp on archives at a whim. You can script the wake and sleep cycles with the job you're running, the thing is completely powered off or in total standby almost all of the time each month.
Nice video and information! I think it would also be interesting with a video about what can be done if you want a desktop PC that could both do crazy high performance and have low idle power consumption as well. Like a Ryzen 7900x with a 10-20W idle, for example. (Perhaps a hotkey in windows to enable/disable cores, motherboard features, graphics card performance, etc, to manually help it go to lower power would be necessary?).
Check the settings under "Energy" in Windows Settings. There is quite a lot you can configure. Also, modern graphics card power down while under low load automatically (they reduce clock frequency of GPU and RAM quite significantly, for example). CPUs themselves go into lower power states in milliseconds.
this is one of the most informative home lab videos I watched ever .. really thank you for this great video
This is probably one of the best videos I’ve watched on KZhead on a long time. Thank you for the huge efforts put into this, and teve detailed information
Love your home server videos - currently I'm using a Raspberry Pi with an external SSD as my "home server', but I'm excited to go through your videos again when the time finally comes to upgrade to something beefier :-) One question - would you say your current build when idle is quiet enough to have in a Wohnheim?
Yes! I can barely hear it unless all four hard drives are being hammered by a bunch of random reads/writes
@@WolfgangsChannel Awesome, thanks!
Power efficiency was always my concern when I started learning selfhosting, since I would be running the hardware 24/7. That's why I've been sticking with a raspberry pi and an old x240 thinkpad. Now I've gained more knowledge on how to upgrade my hardware while still keeping the power cost down. Just curious, are Pico ATX reliable on a 24/7 usage?
They should, as long as you stay within reasonable loads as to not overheat and fry the little thing
I'm discovering this channel by this video and I'm kinda blown by the quality oh what I just saw. Great covering of this subject, well done.
Good, exactly the ethos and type of video I was looking for. I hate wasting power and money, but like the idea of this setup. So really nice option and glad it worked out so well
12:05 "if your building a conventional desktop PC, you're probably not gonna let it sit at idle and let it do nothing for the whole day" stairs at RGB lights for 8 hours
Hey. What is the software/hardware you use to measure power consumption?
Power efficiency and consumption are super exciting topics! ... i mean at least to me! Awesome interesting video! Exactly what I was looking for.
I think everybody running an home lab will find parts or the whole information of this video useful, thanks a lot! 😉
Have you considered looking into MSI's ECO motherboard lineup? It has plenty of features for low-power use, like disabling parts of the motherboard, optimization for S and T Intel CPUs, etc. The second generation motherboard supports up to 2400MHz DDR4 and 7th-gen Intel CPUs. I don't see anyone else discussing the lineup much, but I feel you might find it fascinating.
Really interesting! I wanted to make a video about this but concerning gaming desktop PCs, for example a PC with a 12900K and a 3090Ti vs a PC with the most power-efficient parts without sacrificing too much performance. Do you think it's worth chasing as a topic, or is the cost negligible at that point?
Definitely! LTT made a video about it 3 years ago, and personally I would love to see an updated version kzhead.info/sun/YMhxl8eemZyljYU/bejne.html
Another thumbs up here! LTT also did an ultra-low power build under the guise of the 'Prepper' PC recently that touched on that, but a more detailed take would be interesting. Just having similar concepts doesn't necessarily make it copying or unoriginal as its all in your execution and take on the idea. There's definitely a lot of room for exploring low-power and efficient gaming... Even just taking a quick example of Xbox Series S vs top tier dedicated graphics as a comparison; the Series S pulls about 70-75w in use but maxed out 3090Ti rig is probably 10x that!
Thank you. You are one of the few KZheadrs who covers this topic. 👍
Very good video, thanks for showcasing powertop! Didn't knew that tool!
Excellent server information video on server power consumption & optimal hardware, thank you.
I recently build myself a little Homeserver with an i3 4130 for the occasional transcoding needs. That thing runs idle on 7.3 Watts and with storage for movies on about 14.5 watts. Absolutely loving it. The system cost me around 50 bucks in total. The drives I'm using are worth 4 times the system 😂. If i ever need more CPU horsepower, I could chug in my old 4690k. Really nice to have that as an option
Very cool project! Hope to build one like this within the next few months.
Great video on an important topic, and really interesting to see all the ways that power draw can be inexplicably high, or surprisingly low! But it was the "eat your cake & have it too" reference that brought me here to comment, thank you, Son Of The Unabomber! 😂
Wow, neat tricks to evaluate power efficiency! I'll take it as a personal challenge to optimize as much as possible now
Thank you. Even if I didn't care about electricity bills, which I do (power here is extremely expensive as well) you're helping us to build a more power EFFICIENT system, and I love efficiency, either power or anything else. Thank you.
Thanks for this! Learned heaps about powertop and c-states!
I think is a very helpfull video. Im building my home server here in Brasil, where is hot most of the year and electricity isn't cheap. Thanks!
This is amazing, I have had to turn off my home server since the electricity boomed, I have gone back to pis, I have now acquired a d3643-h thanks to this, I have some ram and a psu for now, just on the hunt for a cpu, selling the old stuff should help pay for this, thanks for your help!
Thanks, @WolfgangsChannel for the detailed background study. As I am looking forward to building my own Home lab NAS server, the information that you have given here is really useful, especially for the people who are living in the EU and I am definitely one of those who got benefited from your valuable information. Viele Grüße aus NRW 😊.
Nice video. Will come back to this when I finally find the time and resources to upgrade my own server. Well deserved like and sub. Cheers!
That's impressive efficiency. Well done!
also ich bin sehr beeindruckt, was du alles herausgesucht hast und hier in einem kurzen Video aufbereitet. Hervorragend genau solche Informationen habe ich dringend gesucht. Außerdem ist dein Englisch hervorragend.
This is what I was looking for in my enterprise to build a NAS, thank you very much
Very good video. I have two Dell PE2950G3 with 6 drives spinning all the time. I bought that because was cheap and have raid controller, what I like a lot. But the power consuption are verry big, about 500 kW/h per month. So, now is time to change, and your video giveme some inspiration. Thankyou.
This is great for saving costs on my utility bill. Thanks Wolfgang...good job!
Another great video. Every time I see a vid from you in feed, I know it's gonna be a good one :)
Awesome video, very informative and lots of great ideas there. Thank you.
So much valuable information! Thank you very much!
Right on time! Thank you!
Thanks for the great video, I'm glad you popped up on my feed. Subscribed
built a power effecient nearly passively cooled nas/homeserver/media pc several years ago, still using it to this day, it has been running roughly 7 years now 24/7. idle consumption ranging between 10-20 watts and under max load/boot its roughly 60 watts. still proud of it. but yes power-save cpu states are mandatory and so is using a ssd for OS/boot disk. and then there is choosing the right OS for the build.
This is a really great topic , I currently use a NUC as my homelab but I think I'm reading for something a bit bigger but not something that was max out my power bills
This is just awesome. I haven’t seen anyone cover this so well outside of non-english language forums 😅
I went in the same way, Now I found ,that Cooling is much easier and I was able to install my rack behind the glass cabinet so It looks really good. If you save on power, you can also make it looks so good and also a lot quieter .
Thanks for the tips. PowerTop inside Proxmox is a nice thing!
Sehr interessant und hilfreich. Ich habe mir jüngst zwei alte HP Slim PCs zum herumspielen mit Linux geholt und um kleine Serveranwendungen laufen zu lassen bevor ich mir was in einem DC anmiete. Powertop probiere ich gleich mal aus um zu sehen was die kleinen so treiben im Idle. Danke für das tolle Video.
Love these videos about power efficient builds. Would love to see a low power pc build video. Also very relevant right now, with the current situation with electrical prices sky high.
I love this content I am always looking to optimize my power usage specially for these always on devices like plex servers and NAS devices and always on VM boxes. Please keep this type on content coming awesome video would love to get more info on recommendations for low power proxmox or unraid builds!
Thanks for this, power efficiency is a favorite topic of mine!
The last mechanical hard drives I owned used 14 watts a piece. I had 10 of them in my video editing workstation in 2008 and it pulled a lot of power. I've since switched to all solid state drives which use about a quarter of a watt each so that was my biggest savings and energy my editing workstation uses 62 Watts at idle. Now I also bought a small fanless mini computer for my web server that uses between 10 and 15 watts and that's on 24/7. It also uses two solid state drives.
You're such an intelligent and generous person for sharing it!
The best video ever made for the PC world on power consumption efficiency. Thank you very much...