WING & ENGINE Anti-Ice systems! Explained by CAPTAIN JOE
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Dear friends and followers, welcome back to my channel! Today's video will go over a very important topic, wing and engine anti-ice systems of planes. This is a follow-up video to last weeks episode about deicing aeroplanes on the ground.
All parts which are directly exposed to the aeroplane's movement through the air, are critical surfaces which are prone to icing. Such as the wing leading edges, horizontal and vertical stabilizers, engine intakes, propellers, pitot tubes and static ports and antennas. Any ice accumulation can lead to reduced controllability, increase in weight and reduce the overall performance of the plane. Icing can occur at temperatures below 10 degrees Celsius and visible moisture!
And there many ways of removing or protecting the plane from icing up.
The most common used system on jet airliners is the bleed air system. Smaller turboprop planes use the boots system. Planes in the general aviation category often use the TKS-system, which is a glycol based fluid, which runs through little holes on the leading edge and lets the ice melt. And the most modern type within the airline industry are electrically heated mats installed within the slats. Currently in use on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner.
We will talk about every system, what their advantages and disadvantages are regarding ice accumulation.
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Thanks for watching, all the best your "Captain" Joe
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Every other plane: Help I'm freezing Concorde: *laughs in supersonic*
while burning money as fuel.
@@JackIsNotInTheBox If you want to save money, you should cross the Atlantic via boat.
@Anjelly Anjelly Funny this came up in a video about ICE conditions :)
@Lil Kito you need to take a submarine for that matter
Not funny
Hey Captain Joe, I'm a R&D engineer at a big aerospace company in the U.S. and I love your content! I'm a new follower and really enjoy how informative and well explained your videos are! Edit: Should have waited for the video to end. I worked on the Q-400 briefly and the boots on the tail have to do with tail sizing and power. Using boots outweighed the weight increase from needing to size up the tail and H-stabs for min control speeds. For anyone who is a bit more curious about why the electrical de-ice on the 787 is superior to bleed air, it's all in the thermodynamics. An electrical generator will convert its motion to electricity at a very high efficiency (low losses), of which is much better than energy loss in the pipes going to the critical surfaces (despite the insulation) and heat transfer losses in the convection within the leading edges. Those losses are also compounded by the fact that the engine needs to work harder to make up for the pressure loss the anti-ice system imposes. Again, an electrical generator tapping energy off the engine is way way way more efficient (can be an order of magnitude) than taking that pressure out of the compressor and relying on convection for heat transfer.
Regarding your question at 7:40. Smaller aircraft like turboprops are often right short (in relation to the fuselage diameter and wing span). Due to the short distance of force to the center of gravity, the controllability around the yaw and pitch axis is lower as for are longer aircrafts. In icy conditions, the airflow around stabilizer and elevator is disturbed. Therefore, the controllability is reduces (required forces can not be produced anymore). Either a bigger stabilzer and elevator is needed the reach better performance in ice conditions (to compensate the force-loss in icy conditions), or boots prevent the build-up of ice to reduce these effects. Btw: First time seeing a boot in action! Thanks for sharing! Best regards, an aerospace engineer master student.
Baureihe711 I was thinking that it was only because the smaller aircraft are more sensitive to the shift of the center of gravity due to the weight of ice on the tailplanes. But I think your answer is better.
+Captain Joe Ping
Baureihe711 are you from Germany ?
Yes, I am. Why?
Baureihe711 to
This is a great video. I don't work with aircraft systems, only engines, so I learned a lot.
can you teach me please I want learn about jet engines please
Hi Jay .....you too doing a great job in jet engine field. thank for your informative video.
@@DieselCrewMO-dz I think he has good tutorials about this topic on his channels
You should get Patreon. So much work deserves an extra revenue!
christianbro2 yeah, he doesn't work for an airline atm since airberlin got bankrupt. So he needs Extra money
Erlend Garshol He has a new company and enough cash I guess
Erlend Garshol He works for Eurowings since quite a while ago
christianbro2 I know what you mean. But he is sponsored
Erland Garshol that just means he needs Money. Ya know, to Survive. EXTRA or not, food is kind of a necessity. He earned his value. Did you?
I'm always amazed how accessible his videos are. Even with some really technical topics, he always manages to make it understandable. Keep doing what you're doing Captain. Always a pleasure to watch your videos !
Hey Joe, I've been watching your videos for some time now, just wanted to say how I appreciate your effort and love the things you do. Take care man!!!
I'm really impressed by how knowledgeable Captain Joe is about the many facets of air travel. Love this channel!
I've heard they used to employ gremlins on the wings to break up the ice during flight, but after that unfortunate incident with William Shatner they had to let them go and install hot air ducts instead...
Haha :)
You have to be of a certain age to get this joke or be a TZ afficiando,😂
They were also used to break up the ice that builds up inside of the engine.
Thanks that’s cute! Love Dave
I thought it was John Lithgow.
Hi Joe, I'm new to your channel, subscribed yesterday, I must say your enthusiasm and love for your job while teaching others made it my favorite channel, keep up the great work, Look forward to much more content like this. Cheers
I’m not a pilot but I’ve traveled a lot for work over the past 30 years. I have one of those minds that always likes to know the “how” and “why” of everything. Your videos have answered so many of those how-and-why question puttering about in my head. Thanks!
These videos just keep getting better.....bless you and yours captain joe.
I'm currently under training for the ATR, and this video is rather helpful. Thank you! :)
Happy to hear that!
This was a really interesting episode, I was already aware of the dangers of ice accumulation and the existence of de-icing equipment, but always figured they were powered by electricity. And while the bleed-air technique makes a lot of sense, the way the rubber boots are used on turbo-prop planes is a very inventive way to get around their limitations. I'd definitely like to see more of these in-depth technical videos!
Lovely. Absolutely crisp and clear.
I really like how you film and plot your videos, short but your point is very understadable. Keep it up!
Its nearly the weekend Joe!😉
We literally went over this topic today in my Aircraft Systems class!!!!
Well what a lucky coincidence ;)
They say you only really know a topic or something well when you can explain it simply. This is one of the simplest explanations I’ve come across. Nice work! Hope you’re enjoying the 748!
Keep up the great work Joe, your videos are always fascinating and informative!
Hey Joe love the videos, want to become a pilot myself and you certainly inspire me to be one. Love the knowledge I’m getting on aviation just by watching your videos!!
Thanks Kevin!
Captain Joe.. can you make a video to explain what is coffin corner.. Thanks 😊
Thanks ! Capt. Joe... your videos really helps to clear all the doubts regarding any system.
Thanks a lot for this video, this was exactly the ATPL chapters I was studying yesterday in my books and I really needed to visualize it ! So crazy that this exactly subject appeared in my suggestions today ! The world is sometimes very well done =D
Captain Joe thanks for the excellent vids, they are truly first class and very informative. A request: Could you do a video about navigating waypoints over the ocean? It's been a long time since I was a u.s. Navy pilot. I understand that trans-oceanic flights use GPS now. But if possible, could you discuss inertial navigation and waypoints Thanks
Thomas Schmidt what is your point? We all see he has 3 stripes, a first officer. "Captain Joe" is just a name. You should pay attention to what he's teaching and stay away from your insecuritiy-driven negativity.
Again a very interesting video. Also nice drone videos from inside the hangar.
Good times :)
Hi Joe, great videos! What about planes like a CRJ that only have rear mounted engines? Do they pipe air up to the wings? Thanks.
These videos have helped me with my ATPL, thanks Joe!
I'm twelve and you really inspired me, i wanted to be pilot from a really going age and I'm gonna go for it. Thanks a lot.
You are my inspiration!! Love from India!!😊
Thanks, greetings to beautiful India!
I love your video Joe! I hope to meet you someday.I wish I could have you as my flight instructor:)
Maybe one day ;)
Sebastien Doat ikr. He would be an awesome instructor
speeking for all of us! i would go so far as to have him a my dad!
michael coleman For him to be my dad would be quite complicated because I'm 10 years older. Having Joe as my brother would be awesome.
Extremely informative, thank you as usual Captain!😃
I use your videos for teaching my dispatching course sometimes. Wish this one was out about 3 weeks ago when we went over aircraft systems, performance and weight/fuel penalties of icing. Thank you!
Just wondering, runways have some treatment in snowy icy days? Or when freezing rain is happening? What is happening when takeoff or land on icy runways?
De-icing operations for airport pavement (runways, taxiways, aprons, taxiway bridges) may involve several types of liquid and solid chemical products, including propylene glycol, ethylene glycol and other organic compounds. Chloride-based compounds (e.g. salt) are not used at airports, due to their corrosive effect on aircraft and other equipment. Urea mixtures have also been used for pavement de-icing, due to their low cost. However, urea is a significant pollutant in waterways and wildlife, as it degrades to ammonia after application, and it has been largely been phased out at U.S. airports. In 2012 the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) prohibited use of urea-based deicers at most commercial airports. The chemicals end up leaving a wet surface and not an icy one. Aircraft movement areas are not smooth but are brushed to increase tyre grip.
I'm just addicted watching ur videos bro...
Thanks for the video Joe! And as usual, very well explained.
Another great presentation Captain Joe! Thank you.
Hi Joe, I'm a follower from Taiwan. Can you do a video about how you pay for your flight school which you mentioned at you video 4 months ago on "10 reasons not to become a pilot." Love to watch your videos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe, do you have much of a problem with drones? Love Your videos
Hadn´t had any yet!
Captain Joe And Laser Pointers?
7:03 Joe, is that you flying the drone?
Yes, the drones fly mostly in 30,000 feet or near the airports
@@michabawoek6661 Are you trolling?
You definitely satisfied my curiosity about deicing systems! Thanks!!
Great videos Joe. On the Q400 we are trained to turn on the de-ice boots upon any indication of ice. There is no waiting period.
Great video! Can we get a video on stall prevention and spin recovery?
Yes next spring, not flying smaller planes at the moment!
Captain Joe great! :D
Hi Joe, Can you do a video about the emergency kinds please ;)?
AviationPRO He has
He has already made a video about this. Look further down his videos :)
he already did that
Great Minds think alike Freckless057 and Thomas Mortimore hehe
XD
SO INTERESTING. I've always wondered these things.
Thanks for the video! I just watched it because I didn't understand why the inboard part of the wings leading edge isn't heated. Gave me some good information for my aircraft subsystems university exam next week.
23 dislikers must be pilots who can't make such videos.
The dislikes are from people that most likely cannot put air in their vehicle tires. :)
Or maybe even their bicycle tires.
lol, Himanshu, I thought the same thing!
Some of those 23 may be ATR pilots who were (understandably) disappointed at the incorrect explanation given at 5:03 regarding the cause of an icing related ATR-72 accident. (See comment above from user Pupda)
mdickinson user Pupda must have deleted his comment. did he leave a link or search term? I would like to know his/her source. EDIT: Pupda did not delete his/her comment it was just not under this thread. My apologies.
Love your vids
Thanks!
Awesome video man! Love the explanation and the visuals as you explain each thing! :)
Great stuff Captain Joe, thank you for your time and knowledge! :)
TDG no fod anti ice blankets on MD-80's
Hello, Joe, can you explain if there are bird protection on the engine. Thanks
Mightstorm there are non, you can only extinguish the engine incase of a fire
no but think about it it can hit the side of the engine
there is i've just visited rols royece
There aren´t!
Mightstorm If you've just seen it at RR, why ask? And there aren't.
Thank you!!! The BEST video yet! Please make more on systems! Sincerely, AMT student. Pressurisation systems, air-conditioning, Fire & extinguishers Etc.
Captain Joe, you are really helping me as an ATPL student in this kind of videos! It’s the best way to understand the theory !! Big Thank YOU
6:28 HOLY SHIT Planes are no Helicopters 0_O
It's a trick of perspective : www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2015/06/13/sorry-your-first-787-dreamliner-flight-wont-include-a-vertical-take-off/#b1b8acd4795a
Petsto That’s a Boeing Dreamliner
Every empty airliner can do the same manoever, it's just to impress spectators. Take the same plane at maximum takeoff weight and I can swear to you that it will be unable to do it.
It was a stunt
They do that in demo flights and airshows. They have no passengers, baggage, or freight on board and just the minimum fuel needed.
Hey joe do a video about your new air line please 😻😻😻😻😻😻😻
I like the "DO" a video comments, I´ll see what I can do!
Captain Joe Thank you so much !!!!!
Fascinating and educational as always. Another great video. Keep up the amazing work
Thanks Steve, appreciate it :)
amazing video, my students likes it a lot. it did explain the lesson perfectly. thanks Joe for sharing
1:47 FSX: Steam edition right there xD
Irritated Camel / Roblox Stuff p3d
Nice I have a question what if the ice is accumulated in the fuel tank how do you deal with it please answer the question.
Fantastic question, worth a video!
Heated fuel filters
Yep great question!
Hey Captain Joe, may I suggest that you refer to the air crash investigation episode of British Airways 38 when you do get round to making this video. Very nicely detailed documentary.
u r really devoted to teach. Thank you Sir from Iran
Being an Computer Engineering student, I love watching your airlines videos!
Has anyone else noticed how the aircraft on the thumbnail is a Lufthansa one?
Has anyone noticed that that isn´t true?
It isn't? It pretty much looks like a LH aircraft. The grey nacelles, the recent ocurrences in the german market. What airline is is then? Thanks for the quick reply though.
Maybee, just maybe it could be a Eurowings aircraft ;)
You are my inspiration sir!! Also was wondering what is your real name?? Except "Caption Joe" ofcourse
I don't wanna post his real name here, but you can find it on the internet with some googling.
Joe :)
You can see it in his video on the logbooks.
Thank you Captain Joe. Your presentation and speaking style are impeccable! I find it useful to consider your style when I have to present something and I don't even work in the aerospace industry.
Loving your videos man! keep them coming!!
joe, ive heard that there is some airline that gives you CPL in exchange of a 10-year contract, and when you start paying them when you start working, is that true if so which airline does that, cuz i did my research and i haven't seen any, thank you
I think Finnair has a program like this.
Dan thank you ill look it up, cuz i really want to be a pilot and im willing to do the impossible for it, im still young tho, im 18 so i still have time,
What is CPL?
CPL= Commercial Pilot Licence
PPL= Private Pilot licence and ATPL= Airline Transport Pilot Licence
i agree...AIRBUS step-up your game !!
Yes they should ;)
Yes they should ;)
What it means?
It means that boeings system is more advanced than the one of airbus and airbus should keep up to remain competitive.
Its a french thing. Like their cars, they have rarely been innovative or begun using new tech the last 30yrs. Might even say they're crappy
I would honestly ace any atpl exam with Captain Joe as my instructor....brilliant video...i knew most of this stuff before i watched it, but seeing how these systems work with visuals really broadened my understanding of these systems ...great job and looking forward to further lessons :)
This blew my mind! Keep the detail it’s so interesting
6:30 okay then just casually do a vertical, sure
lol
As an airbus pilot, have you /would you be able to fly a Boeing aircraft?
If he made the typerating: Yes, theoretically.
Yep with the rating sure which is why you have seen him in Boeing simulators more recently, the more type ratings you have the marketable you are.
Give me one month of typerating and I guess I´d be fine!
Another channel actually has an Airbus pilot flying and landing a Boeing simulator, and although it was weird, and he needed some time to find buttons (and a lot more was analogue), he managed fine, and even got a compliment for a decent landing. =)
Captain Joe would the yoke throw you off on a Boeing, because it is very different than a side stick on an Airbus in my opinion?
Has a frequent flyer your videos makes me understand the little details of the environment I live in. Just awesome!
Captain Joe, this is an excellent presentation, always educative and a great add on resource to my course delivery of Flight Dispatch. I also value the mention of possible ATPL questions.
0:15 I love this plane.
Visit a proper psychiatrist.
@@IBo99608 Rude.
do air plane have horn
Yes they do!
Just to add a bit to that, it's for alerting the ground crew.
Captain Joe take plane many time never hear it
janis banis Or maybe if the plane infront holding on some taxiway crossing sleeps and doesnt get going? xD
Captain Joe Learn something new everyday! I had no idea woah
Thank you very much for all these videos. I'm not afraid of flying but these still help me feel better when I get on a flight.
Good to see your new video. Looking forward to finding out which airline you are now flying for..!
What fool gave this a thumbs down 👎🏻 ??? This video was awesome ! Like if you agree thumbs up 👍🏻 👍🏻
Thanks buddy!
Captain Joe No problem Joe great channel
Gixer750pilot Now it's 23 thumbs down i wish i could find these people and ask them why they give thumbs down. I think most are just jealous, there is people out there that can't stand successful people because their life didn't work out for them so they will do anything to see others fail and some thumbs down might just be a mistake. But most of thumbs down are probably by some 50 year old loser still living in his mothers basement and can't stand Joe's success.
Airbus manufacturers
It just goes to show, you can't fix stupid. Here's crossing fingers for an eventual cure.
Joe, are you going to work in another airline now, and if you are, do you know in which airline you may work?
It'snotaplane 32 He said in the Air Berlin tribute video he won’t tell anyone in comments. He’ll do a video at a later date to reveal
He will work for Eurowings
Video about my pilot career coming up soon!
yayy, how soon tho?
Captain Joe I just can't wait to watch it , such an inspiration
I enjoyed your video. Thank you Captain Joe. 😘
Vidéo passionnante, Thanks captain Joe ! Merci en particulier pour la traduction en Français. je ne connaissais que dégivrage extérieur avant le décollage . je mets la vidéo dans les favoris, car je crois que je devrais la revoir pour essayer de mieux comprendre !
Interessant und gut gemacht. Aber ehrlich ich glaube nicht das das E - Deicing System auch nur ein Gramm Treibstoff spart, ersten brauchts ne ganze Menge Strom, zusätzlichen oder größeren Generator , und ein Generator bremst die Leistung der Motoren ganz erheblich , es wäre mal interessant wie das System von BOING aussieht, aber wie immer kommen nur große Worte und am lautesten Trommeln damit es auch jeder glaubt, wie bei einer bek. E -Automarke auch nichts dahinter.
1. Bei dem Air Bleed System fehlt die Luft die zum Enteisen genutzt wird dem Antrieb. (Abgezweigte Luft reduziert ebenfalls die Leistung) 2. In dieser Luft steckt viel mehr Energie drin als benötigt wird, sie muss ja auch erst auf verträgliche Temperatur runtergekühlt werden. 3. Es kann nicht ganze Temperatur der Luft zum enteisen genutz werden, d.h. es geht einiges an Energie ungenutzt verloren Bei E-Deiceing fällt das Air Bleed System und damit auch sein Gewicht weg. Man muss viel weniger Energie aufwenden um den selben Effekt zu erzielen, die Flügelkanten werden ja nur soweit aufgeheizt, das sich kein Eis bildet und dafür müssen sie nicht auf 200°C aufgeheizt werden
Stimmt schon, das Gewicht fallt weg , aber Alu - ist leichter wie Kupfer, Widerstandsdraht braucht ne Menge Energie, Die heiße Luft wird bei dem Airbleed system sowie so schon heruntergekühlt. Zweitens jeder weiß das Diesel,- elektrisch, oder mit Benzin, oder Kerosin elektrisch angetriebene Generatoren um elektrische Antriebe oder Verbraucher anzutreiben im Gesamt Wirkungsgrad schlechter sind als die Direktabnahme , Die Physik lässt sich nicht verändern, auch nicht für Boing. die Flügelkanten müssen so weit aufgeheizt werden das sich kein Eis bilden kann, 35000f bei ca 900km/h Temp von -50 Grad and den Flügelkanten ist einige Grad kälter, also mit 50 Grad plus kannst du die Flügel nicht Eisfrei halten
Es gibt auch Alu-Kabel, die auch schon in der Luftfahrt eingesetzt werden. Wenn du ein Ei kochst, was hat den besseren Wirkungsgrad, wenn du das Wasser auf 100°C erhitzst oder wenn du erst in einem Kessel das Wasser verdampfst, den Dampf auf 600°C bringst und dann wieder auf 100°C abkühlst? Bei der Direktabnahme ist der Wirkungsgrad nur dann besser wenn nur soviel Energie bereitgestellt wird wie benötigt wird. Bei einer Flugzeugturbine wird ja nicht einfach nur ungenutze Abwärme wie beim Auto genutzt.
Alu Kabel sind wesentlich schlechtere Stromleiter um die selbe Wattzahl durch das Kabel zu leiten muss das Kabel wesentlich stärker sein , ca doppelte mm/2 zweiten ich wärme ja nichts auf extra, für das Antiicing, die wärme wird so oder so produziert, Bleedair wird auch benutzt um den Kabinendruck zu erzeugen und gleichzeitig eine angenehme Temperatur in der Kabine zu erzeugen , oder sitzen Sie im Flugzeug, mit Winterjacke ,Bempelmütze und Handschuhen und frieren sich trotzdem den Arsch ab.Also die Bleedair wird so oder so heruntergekühlt , der Trick besteht darin den richtigen Abgriff zu setzen um so wenig wie möglich Energie zu verbrauchen.AluKabel sind die schlechteste Wahl, in Hausinstallationen sind sie verboten , die Oxidation des Aluminiums verschlechtert den Widerstand an den Kontaktstellen ganz erheblich, durchgebrannte Kabel oder Kurzschlüsse wären nur eine Frage der Zeit , ich glaube nicht das man die in Flugzeugen verwendet oder verwenden darf, Sie altern auch viel schneller. Sollte Boing solche Kabel verbaut haben , gebe ich Ihnen den guten Rat nicht in eine Boing zu steigen. Aber wie es so ist man kann diskutieren wie man will, ich weis nicht was Boing benutzt und wie das System im Detail aussieht. Für mich sieht es so aus das die Verbrauchswerte schön gerechnet sind um Vorteile beim Verkauf zu haben, solche Rechnungen hat man in allen Bereichen auf dem Papier sieht es gut aus in der Praxis ist es dann ganz anders, da ist halt der Pilot, oder das Wetter daran Schuld wenn der Flieger plötzlich mehr Treibstoff braucht als auf dem Papier vorgerechnet, es wird nur das Optimum angenommen ,nachher kann das sowieso keiner 100% ig nachprüfen weil die realen Flugdaten erheblich abweichen . Wi auch immer , ich wünsche ein schönes Wochenende .
Das Bleedair für Kabinenheizung fällt ja auch weg. Auch mit größerem Querschnitt sind Alukabel immernoch 40% leichter. Und es gibt extra für Alukabel entsprechende Anschlussstücke, luftdicht und mit Kontaktfett das Korund enthält um oxidation zu vermeiden. Im A380 werden Alukabel verwendet
Can you make a video about 9/11 make a whole story/video I can’t find a true story.
NO! Sorry not my story!
Nick _TV Wtf. Airline Pilot =! All knowledge about every event that ever happened with at least one plane involved
Because in Europe, 9/11 means the 9th of November; nothing special about that day.
Thankyou capt! When i feeling confused while studying, i watch your video and it's really help me :)
Wieder ein sehr informatives Video. Danke und....weiter so!
That's a lot of knowledge behind every little detail of airplane design...Captain Joe thanks!
This channel always has an excellent video to look forward too!
im from Vietnam and so pleased to see our 787-9 on your video. btw we, avgeek, are looking forward for your next chapter of aviator
Your videos and explanation are awesome, and crystal clear for even a novice like me who is not from the aviation background. Good Job!
Wow, such a deep explanation. Thank you
Keep up the amazing work. I love your videos. Been a subscriber for over 1.5 years. 🙂🙂✌🏻✌🏻
One of the best, no-nonsense videos about aircrafts and flying. Hopefully nobody thinks they can fly after watching your videos.
Always amazing content. I'm glad what happened to AB hasn't stopped you making videos! :)
Thanks for the Beautiful Explanation!
wow great job! now i have a better understanding of the amount of knowledge pilots of all plane sizes must have!
So many technology inside on these aircraft, interesting.Thank Captain Joe
Thank you, wonderfull video again. Nice to see you on Mentour being mentioned.
This is really fascinating, thanks Joe!
Excellent ,great animations as well! Keep it up!
I thought I knew a lot, but this channel teaches me so much.
Brilliant! Thanks Captain Joe