The BIGGEST Mistakes DIYers Don't Know They Are Making When Installing Metal Electrical Boxes
In this video I show you some of the biggest mistakes made when installing metal electrical boxes. They can be incredibly dangerous if some steps are overlooked or forgotten!
Items In The Video:
Green Ground Screws: amzn.to/3iwWtv2
Insulated Pigtail With Ground Screw: amzn.to/3Vxvdvc
Wire Strippers: amzn.to/3h0jiqI
3/8" Plastic NM Connectors: amzn.to/3VseyZW
3/8" Metal NM Connector: amzn.to/3FleCF9
4x4 Metal Electrical Box: amzn.to/3H7ILsF
Wago Multi Pack: amzn.to/3Vv8CPA
Ideal Red 452 Wire Nut: amzn.to/3VGBKU4
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Blessings,
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Have you ever seen any of these mistakes made in this video? Hopefully this was insightful. If you know of other common mistakes made, feel free to list them here. Never know when I may feature them in a future video! 😎
Is it acceptable to have one of the ground conductors (part of one of the NM cables) wrap around the box grounding screw and then get connected to the other ground conductors via a wire nut? instead of having a separate pigtail.
Depends on who you ask but it is my understanding that yes, that would be acceptable using the feed wire ground.
You neglected to point out that the NEC calls for 6 inch long wires beyond the sheathing inside the box.
You are correct. I did not mention that. And 3 inches past the front of the box. Thanks for the reminder for everyone.
I always make at least these for mistakes on every box I wire, sometimes if I'm lucky I can get at least 7 or ate in one two gang box. That takes some practice for sure, although some can do it right out of the gate (beginners luck) I would have more pictures of my work but for some mysterious reason a lot of these houses aren't there anymore. Crazy times I almost forgot, my company name is RE-VOLTING ELECTRIC You'll be shocked by our work (it's that good)
My Dad was an electrician , and many times I would help him on jobs in the summer, and when it got to point where he could trust me to rough in a box ( they were ALL metal back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth!), Dad ALWAYS made sure I grounded the box with a crimped on copper terminal screwed to the box. Dad made sure it was done right! All these years later, I STILL remember that. Thanks Dad.
I am a fan of using crimp terminals especially on stranded wire.
I've never seen anything BUT metal boxes in new work. Plastic is usually just rework in my experience, and only for convenience. If you're doing new work, the box gets screwed to a stud, so you might as well make it metal and strong.
Just saying … please teach your own kids what your Dad taught you. And if you don’t have kids… teach some other kid. We need the skills and quality workmanship of our ancestors to passed forward. Thank you 😊
@@drumstyx it all depends on the specific application and/or if it's Residential vs. Commercial/industrial "new" work... both types of boxes definitely have there places and pros/cons... Cost usually being the largest factor
@@drumstyxnail on plastic boxes are used in new home construction never used steel boxes anymore except on block walls and commercial 😊
Excellent video. Exactly what I needed to help overcome my discomfort working with electrical.
Thanks for educating me as I am putting new outlets in metal box for the first time, only dealt with plastic boxes in the past
No fluff, easy to understand, great flow of information (no pauses, ums or uhs), AND you know the right names for the parts you are demonstrating! Great job, man! I'm now a subscriber!
That’s some great advice. In Bulgaria where I live, metal junction boxes are not that common in households. However, water heater switches are pretty often installed in metal boxes. Which can make it even more dangerous if the water becomes dangerous. Greatly explained, Sir.
Thanks for the info buddy. The grounding screw on a metal box I will be installing for my finished basement project could've been something I forgot. Now it's etched in my brain to not forget. Have a blessed day and work safe brother.
It’s really a bond, not a ground. Boxes are bonded, equipment is grounded.
Thanks for all your work! Lots of stuff I did not learn at my tech school... plus even plumbing vids! (As a landlord, very useful)
You are very welcome! Glad you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
Code Table 210.24 allows 20A branch circuit taps to be 14ga wire.
Only on copper, not aluminum or copper clad
On new work, I install those pre-made ground pigtails in each metal box ahead-of-time (and "Z" them out of the way). It beats fighting through other wires to get to the back of the box with the screw.
Great idea!
you should have a check with your supplier to see if they have the box with the ground preinstalled in it. we use them exclusively at my work and they are a real time saver. The Reynolds Company does list them and sell them with the grounds pre-installed. a quick round of googling should get you to a listing to be able to order them.
@@brunothehumble interesting.
I love good videos like this with good close- up photography, clean explanations, and just the right amount of information. 👍
Thanks! Glad you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
Thank you for your video. I have been doing some electrical work at home and rewiring our garage with new breaker box and all. I didn't realize grounding the box would prevent electric shock and other problems. I'm going to fix mine first thing in the morning. Thank you for the advice.
FINALLY! A KZhead video that actually cuts to the chase pretty quickly, and gives you good, concise, quick (and hopefully complete) information. Well done!
Whew! I have been doing it right all these years. This is a great go to video to show friends that want to try their own. The mistakes I found in my home after I bought it were a bit unsafe. Just subbed.
Excellent video. This is how how-to videos should be made. Clear and concise instruction, excellent camera angle(s), and well explained throughout. Thanks!
I couldn't have said it better 👏
It takes him 10 mins to say 3 things….
I would like to hear you talk about all, or the common, ways to ground that metal box. What I mean is the options for what it can be grounded to. Helpful vid, thanks!
Tightening the loop of ground wire around a loose grounding screw literally made this video worth much more time than I spent watching. Thanks!
Thank you for these videos. The biggest takeaway for me was using the stripper to make the hook to go around the screw. I was using needle nose to do it, and it wasn’t always easy to get the curve right. Everything else will help, too!
This video has done this exact same thing for me as well XD
You don’t loop anything. Use a crimp tool and lug
@@pablomagee2999 waste of money and an extra failure point.
Loved the video!! Gave me some good reminders on what to look for. I was concerned in that I'm updating some of light switches and plan on using the Wagos. On your image for your video there are words "DONT USE" and pointing at the Wago. Now I see it was about the smaller wire.
I missed that and I'm an electrician. Must be the camera angle.
WAGO's are a personal choice. If you do the strain relief on the Romex sheath and the wires going into the wago is not stressed and can not pull out they are fine. When I am rebuilding 1930's floor lamps I replace the old wire nuts with Wago's, a 5 way for all neutrals, a 2 way for the switched hot single lower bulbs and a 3 way for the switched hots for the other two. Getting five 12 gauge stranded wires into a wire nut is hard but a Wago fixes that.
I did not find a link to the bits you mentioned- good video and tips
Appreciate your knowledge. Thanks
Interesting to see the differences... Here in the Netherlands, you would typically see only plastics used in residential installations for boxes, conduits, sockets, switchgear and consumer units. Wagos are, of course, well loved over here too. Wire nuts, though still available, are a thing of the past. Those you cannot trust DIYers to get right and the pros have long gone the way of the Wago because of the time savings they offer.
Plastic and glassfiber is usually used here too whenever the devices are not exposed on top of a surface. Metal boxes and conduit are used and needed for exposed (on the top of the surface) installations, which you normally only see in commercial buildings. In homes, it would be possibly in a basement with concrete walls or in a garage with new work and wiring installed on top of the surface. In Europe we have special cable allowed for running on surface, but I remember a crazy scenario in Finland, where regular metal sheated wire was used and we had to add panzer tubing on top of all exposed wires that were run below 1.70m in closets, etc... (This was in a summer home, and the year was 1980). You definitely have quite a set of rules over there too :)
I just bought a "metal "housing" with no ground wire, unless ground is copper wire at back of housing, only black pos and white neutral wires. I never even thought of looking for plastic housing. My guy at Home Hardware selected metal housing. I don't think I had an option. David Innisfail, Ab. Canada
@@davidweum Wtf is black pos? Black is live, not positive.
@@mernokallat645 I KNOW THAT. I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING DIFFERENT. BLACK POS, WHITE NUETRAL, GROND IN BACK ON WALL, I ASSUME.
@@mernokallat645 On mine it is.
I've followed you for a while, and honestly, you have busted me on a few issues; I'm so glad you have. If I'm going to do the job, I want it done right. Thank you very much for the great videos.
This was super helpful. Thanks for taking the time out to make this video!
Thanks for all the great videos. I also am a fan of using the plastic insulating bushing.
Your video popped up on my channel and I watched it to the end. You do an awesome job of fully explaining while still keeping me interested. I am not an electrician but I have seen myself doing a lot of troubleshooting over the years. I get questions all the time from viewers and friends. I will refer your channel as an excellent guidline. Thanks!
Great educational videos! Well presented with superior production values! Good job!
Thanks! Glad you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
Thank you for this video! You probably saved me from a future headache. I'm just a DIYer and I made the ground wire mistake. Going out to fix it now.
U never use metal boxes for Romex Mc cable or conduit is the correct way to use four square boxes
Thank you for a very clear explanation.
The grounding hole is not always raised. It is sometimes one of "mounting " holes. It's usually a little smaller and threaded. Lots of fun on a box mounted to wood. You either have to hang it off the stud for clearance or make clearance before mounting. Those green screws do not drill into wood very well and it will seem tight but is not all the way tight against the wire. Always wiggle that ground once you think it is "tight" to be sure! The boxes with a bump are preferred because the clearance is built in, but you don't always get what you want at the store!
@@jeremiahbullfrog9288 I like to mark the holes, then dril a big shallow hole under the hole :)
@@livingdeadbtu a drill/tap combo bit does all that in one go.
On older boxes that are re-used during renos that have no camel hump or threaded ground screw hole I use the pre-wired grounding clips that attach to the edge of the box. Faster and are code compliant.
@@davidyansky6605 i got a box of those, but never used them. Its just as easy and quick to use a drill/tap combo bit.
The best way I've found to make clearance is to either keep an awl in your bag that has been ground down to just under the hole size and push it into the hole after the box is in place. While that hole you make is smaller than the ground screw, it will allow the screw to push itself in much easier. I also keep 6/8/10 tap in my pouch which can work for that as well using the first #6 tap as the awl. However be careful of breaking it as these are very hard and brittle.
Great video, thank you. One thing on the 12awg and 14awg combo. Wire sizing is sometimes upsized due to length of run to avoid voltage drops. Personally I'm running power to my garden ~150' away from the breaker box. I'm running... i forget, 10 or 12 for the main run, but intend to use one size down in the boxes or the branches. It can handle the amprage, just would cause a problematic voltage drop over the distance. Either way, still an excellent video and I've certainly learned some.
@@Salvadorbalihai24 The tap rule is three meters / ten feet, not three feet.
Just as long as the circuit is protected at the smallest gauge rating . If you downsize to 14 gauge you can only protect it at 15 amps no higher. 29 amps for 12
@@Salvadorbalihai24 no
Poor guy has no idea what he just walked into with the whole 14 is cool on short bits. I'm staying out of it, for now.
@@gerdberg4188 #12 copper is limited to 20 amps in most cases, even though the amperage table lists it at 30 it is limited below in the fine print notes. There are conditions in industrial and commercial installations that are engineered for the higher amperage but definitely not for a residential application....so a #12 can't be on an overcurrent protective device above 20 amps.
Excellent advices Thank you
Awesome. Putting in a metal box now. Great timing. Learned something
Really good, stuff. If I might add, the three neutrals marretted together, should be twisted a few more times so the “twist” is confirmed-viewable from below the barrel of the marrette
Completely agree. Thanks for the feedback Brian!
Simple, concise, common sense. I am a DIYer, but I've always preferred a mechanical connection(twisted wire) with a proper sized wire nut. Thank you for your simple good advice.
I agree. Really glad to hear you liked it. I really appreciate all of the feedback! Thanks a lot Ricky.
Ricky....that's because you are smart...wegos are for inside lighting connections
@@BlackVibeBallsack You cannot even correctly spell WAGO. wagos are under-rated in their spreadsheets and can actually reliably have much higher current pass through them then their rated current. i.e 20A / 300V.
Always willing to learn something new or the newest best practices. Thanks a bunch!
Classic goodness I learned in high school ‘Basic Electricity’ and slowly forgot as plastic boxes became the norm. Thank you for setting us straight and reminding of details when using metal boxes.
Should also warn against overtightening the metal romex clamps. I went through a bunch of shorts before figuring out the perfect clamping force.
There is actually a torque spec from the mnfct for all those screws/bolts/lugs. Nobody pays any attention to it but a torque screwdriver is a good thing to have in your bag.
Thank you for separating "SHOCKED" from "ELECTRICUTED". It's so aggravating when someone says, "OW! I just got ELECTRICUTED!" To which I would reply, "Really? Then how are you telling me?" lol Great video, btw. Thanks!
You explain things very clearly and succinctly. Thank you.
You are very welcome! Really glad to hear you liked it! Thanks a lot for the feedback Dave!
One thing I learned the hard way to do is to check those Romex clamps for casting burrs that can cut into the Romex; I had to replace 30 feet of Romex after that lesson, when I turned on the breaker and ...BOOM...the breaker tripped and the Romex was damaged right at the clamp, leaving it too short to use.
Couldn't you just add another Jbox a bit further down the line to connect the old wire with a new one, instead of replacing 30 feet or Romex?
@@danielthommen8243 There was no room for a J-Box, without hiding it behind a wall (a code violation). The 30 feet of Romex didn't go to waste; most of it was used elsewhere.
Great vid. For the pigtails, don’t bury them under the feed conductors.
On that twisting the wires bit, I did some extensive rewiring and started having problems with loose connections coming apart in crowded boxes. I wound up going through and twisting every wire nut connection I had made.
Great video, thank you.
I have found over the years that when using the two screw connector can cause a dead short or a high resistance short if the screws are tightened too tight. Unfortunately they may not be found until after the rough-in is complete and power is applied. A high resistance short when coupled to a GFI circuit can be a bear to find. This goes for any metallic connector. The 2 screw connectors must be tightened very carefully and until the cable does not slip on a tug test. Over torquing can be almost impossible to find once the drywall is in place!!
Always wondered about that but never heard of it happening. possibly a burr was on inside of metal clamp that punctured wire?
The min. allowed dimension of the wire depends on the circuit breaker and the loop impedance. If you use a 10A or smaller circuit breaker there can still be different wire-types mixed together because of the voltage drop (here we often have 4mm² until the last box and then 2,5mm³ to sockets (16A breaker) or 1,5mm² to lamps (13A breaker), all depending on your loop impendance). You always have to know the max. current on that circuit and note the diameter in the distribution plan. And measure the loop impedance at the very end.
In North American standards, it would be ok to mix 12 and 14 AWG on a 15 amp circuit as that only requires 14 AWG, but not on a 20 amp circuit as that requires 12 AWG. That said, a pigtail like this is unlikely to burn down or melt anything either way, as with such a short wire, there's very little resistance to generate a lot of heat. Also, it's in a metal box, so there shouldn't be anything to catch fire even if it does get hot. Still, follow the code, it exists for a reason.
Answered a question I have been wondering for a while. Thanks. Very informative.
Thank you man I'm gonna install a metal box today I didn't know that grounding rule.
The number one thing I've been encountering is the electrical box left uncovered. And, they didn't leave any screws in the box for the cover to be replaced. I wish you had mentioned that and the kind/size of the replacement cover plate screws. Great information all the way around. Thanks.
The screws are 6-32
Did you connect the ground wire (with the green screw) to the other copper wires in the box? Or, did you just lay the ground wire in the box? Thank you for your answer.
Great video for rookies like me. Very informative. Thanks so much. 🤗
You are very welcome! Glad you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
Just for clarification, if the incoming line carrying the power is #14 (common in an existing home), it's fine to use #14 or #12 coming off the Wago. I could see someone misunderstanding what you said as all the wires need to be the same size when they need to be as big or bigger than the source wire.
If we're clarifying here, the limiting factor is the breaker, not the wire. 12 AWG has a 20 amp capacity 14 AWG has a 15 amp capacity So 14 AWG can be used in a circuit being fed by a 15 amp breaker. 12 AWG can be used in a circuit fed by a 20 amp breaker. 12 AWG can also be used in a circuit fed by only a 15 amp breaker but it's a waste of money as larger wire is more expensive.
@@hogroamer260 Sure, but lots of times you're going to find yourself with a roll of 12/2 that you're already using for the work and it's far more expensive to go buy some 14/2 than just use 8" of #12 of what you already have. This video was marked as DIY, so there isn't a truck or van with spools of wire to hit up. The breaker and the wire are both limiting factors. If someone else installed #14 on a 20A breaker, you've got an entirely different problem on your hands than the receptacle you're working.
@plsreleasethekraken @plsreleasethekraken Yes, I get using what's on hand as long as it meets the breaker capacity. No need to be snarky, not saying what you said is wrong, just trying to summarize and clarify that the breaker dictates. The design is dependent on the load, the breaker is chosen based on that. Then the wire size is chosen based on the breaker size (leaving out voltage drop situations). The breaker protects the wire, the wire is not a limiting factor. If someone used 14 AWG on a 20 amp circuit, that's a code violation and my comment is geared toward compliant work not every mess that a "DIY'er" can achieve. A DIY'er needs to know their limitations so they can seek out a professional. Just because there are KZhead videos' doesn't mean everyone should tackle a job on their own. They may be putting their lives, and more importantly, the lives of others in jeopardy.
@@hogroamer260 sorry if that sounded snarky, it wasn't intended that way--just speaking practically. Yes, it would be a code violation; I was just speaking in terms of engineering/physics that the wire can be the limitation. An electrician can install a 20A breaker with #12, and then a previous owner could extend the circuit with #14. It's a code violation, but as the home owner I don't think you should care as much about that as understanding that wire is your limiting factor on that circuit because everywhere else on the circuit where the initial electrician wired with #12 would be fine. Again, mostly just trying to stick with the theme of the video where DIY opens up recep and finds this stuff. I do not think everyone should assume all the electrical done on their house was to code. It's never been that way anywhere I have lived. Appreciate the discussion.
i mean you could run jumper cable thick #6 wire from your breaker and go to #14 gauge in the box if you wanted to on a 15 amp circuit. not a great idea but code would be fine with it.
I agree the things you pointed out are rather common code violations I run into as well. I must also add that there is no requirement in the National Electrical Code that the grounding screw must be green. The only bonding screw the code specifies to be green is a screw that is used for the main or system bonding jumper in panelboards and and other similar equipment. These green screws for the box type in the video are just a convenience product that works great for the application but is no requirement to use this specific product. Also the particular style of non metallic cable clamp you showed in the video is intended to be installed from the inside of the box. It is designed that way to take less space in the box. Most common places I use that one is in those shallow light and fan outlet boxes or maybe when fishing a cable into a box or cabinet that is flush in the wall and would be difficult to install a connector from the outside of the box.
If you install the non metallic clamp the other way around wouldn't it then keep the wire from pushing into the box but allow it to be pulled out?
those plastic clamps come in to varieties, one install inside to out and one installed outside to in. it is used correctly in this video
your videos are really informative, and I really get good info. I have to replace my bathroom fixture myself, and I want to know what size wago would I use. Looking at the wiring it doesn't look that hard. My gfci plug went out so I was going to do this before the power is back on. I would appreciate any help, and thanks.
Thank you for this. Very informative and nice explanations!
Would the 14 gage pigtail be okay if the circuit that the box was on was protected be a 15 amp breaker?
Yes, it would.
Yes
as an Electrician apprentice I have to shoot you major respect. I caught 2/3 and didn't catch the 12 gauge wire. Thank you for making some of us be better at our craft and home owners safer. At first glance, even my mentor didn't spot that gauge difference first. Although at second look, he did spot it... I didn't. Again...thank you. Much respect to trade and major respect to you.
I'm curious, there's no mention of the breaker size on this circuit. Just because it's 12 ga doesn't necessarily mean it's a 20 A circuit. It could be a really long run on a 15 A breaker, or the installer might have been out of 14 ga to finish the job. I don't see anything wrong offhand with using a 14 ga pigtail even though it's 12 ga coming in. Am I mistaken?
@@crisdunbar4753 I am still learning, but I would locate/isolate that circuit and factor in the amps it was intended for. If it's lights, fire away on that 14ga. If it's plugs... eliminate all 14ga because you never know when someone is going to plug in a TV, Playstation and 1600 watt electric space heater. I'm curios to see his answer too. (I've only been an apprentice electrician for 3 months... on the job training - no schooling)
@@ericallen7200 I guess that's my point. The video claims without qualification that the 14 ga pigtail is a mistake. This may also be a jurisdictional thing. Where I am (BC, Canada), 15 A general-purpose (mixed outlets and lighting) are the norm, with 14 ga cabling. But of course, using a 12 ga cable is perfectly acceptable (if uncommon) on a 15 A circuit. So I don't see the 14 ga pigtail as an automatic error. The _intention_ of the circuit is beside the point I would say. If it's a 15 A breaker, the 14 ga pigtail is fine; if it's a 20 A breaker, it isn't, regardless of what is used for. Note, I'm not even an apprentice, just a fairly well-educated amateur. =)
@@crisdunbar4753 code wise you have an issue still but reality wise i don't think it's a problem having the 14awg on a 20A circuit there as it is less than a foot and nothing returns to the main circuit there. 14awg will stand up to 20A at that length just fine. still not best practice and probably a code violation though not sure as i do know whire length plays a part in the code for amperage.
@@crisdunbar4753 we have anumber of 15a circuits here ran with 12awg wire. codewise it is fine to step down to 14awg there but it is a bad idea. the next idiot working in the circuit will see 12awg out of the breaker and assume he can slap a 20a breaker on there. not that i think it would actually be a problem as long as you aren't feeding out of the outlet 14awg that short should handle 20A without an issue but code will come down on you for it
Good stuff! Thanks for the great info!!!!
Great video thank you makes a lot of sense on the ground screw.
Great Job, just wanted to let you know I think you have one of the best approaches and by far the most useful, easy to understand formats of any educational videos on KZhead. The videos are accurate and explain the necessary information and steps needed to complete the process and installation of the particular project being worked on. The instructions given are simple and easy to follow and there are no unnecessary procedures or tangents to distract or overcomplicate the lesson. You give some different options including the preferred method you like to use for the situation. Most importantly, you make sure the message, "Of what not to do! or this is dangerous BECAUSE!" is pointed out without being overbearing or sounding ridiculous. I think you explain yourself well, giving you credibility for your knowledge of the trade. I typically don't like watching KZhead videos for many different reasons; the lack of hosts' intelligence and no confidence in the material being discussed. Primarily my main objection is when the teacher of the video tries to be a comedian or brings their personal life into the show. You understand the importance of the lesson and respect the viewer's time. I would like to ask you if you could do a segment on " How To" #1. Wire 3 and 4-way switches power to light/ power to switch, receptacle in the middle. #2 where to start when wiring a lighting circuit and how many rooms and LED fixtures can a 20 amp breaker carry( I know most lighting circuits are 15 amp) #3 a bedroom receptacle circuit. All circuits starting from the panel, like new construction.
Well I am really glad to hear you are finding value in the content! Thanks a lot for sharing all of that with me. Those are all good subjects! I will see if I can get some of it into one of the videos! Thanks a lot for the ideas and again for the well thought out feedback!
Great video. However as you stated that you have to use a green ground screw. I agree with you on that but code says that you can use a screw that is machine type and color truly doesn't matter. Now for me I am like you, I use green because I have thousands. Your videos are very helpful and I always appreciate a great tradesm. Keep up the good work.
I agree, there is no code for color and they need to be machine screws. I just stated what I did about the screws as you know they are going to work and they are so easy to find for folks in the electrical section. Wouldn’t want someone just using a deck screw. Thanks a lot for the feedback! I have enjoyed and learned a few things from your videos as well.
Yes there is mention of green screws
@@gerdberg4188 That's for the MAIN or SUPPLY jumper (if its a jumper - The main panel bonding jumper)
Been a Master Electrician for 28+ years. Good video sir
What about the jumper clause? I don’t know if it’s still in affect, but you could always use up to 6 inches of 1 size smaller wire going to a device?
Another thing I would point out is to just snug the clamp down on the metal NM connector. Over tightening the clamp can damage the cable causing a short circuit. I do agree they are the best connector and use them myself, just don’t over tighten them. I’ve been a journeyman electrician for 38 years.
Why would you use a metal connector when the new plastic ones are so much better
I mean after all it is plastic cable
@@gerdberg4188ecause as the video explains, the screw clamps hold more securely. I would only use plastic on data or maybe thermostat cables. Moving wires can work loose. Also, there are clamps that are usable from inside the box, though a bit tricky to work. One more thing--someone proffered that "How To Home" used the plastic device backwards. I disagree.
What was the additional black wire to a wire nut and and the same for a white? I didn't understand that
@@irish89055 those would be called pigtails that are meant to be connected to the receptacle, light or other device that the box is there to serve. If the box were just used as a junction point, those pigtails wouldn’t be necessary and wouldn’t be there.
It’s been a while since I’ve opened a code book, but the multiple gauges on one Wago seems like it would be fine IF the cable run is long enough to have to account for voltage drop. As long as it’s a 15-amp receptacle on a 15-amp breaker, I believe this would be code-compliant. The Wago would have to be listed for both wire sizes too.
Yah idk what this old man is ranting about.
Yes, I'd say that if you're going to pigtail that to a light, going to 14 gauge would be fine. If doing an outlet, I would never drop the gauge of wire down.
Probably in the 3rd world.
14ga cu wire is good for 15a circuit. It's stupid to run 12ga all of the way to the box, then pigtail with 14ga, but if the chicory is on a15a breaker/ fuse, it will not cause a fire. The breaker will trip before the circuit gets overloaded. It is a waste of more expensive material to run the home run in 12/2wg, then use 14ga for a pigtail that would require a15a breaker vs a20a
@@bilmoe5856 Not true at all! First and foremost once behind the meter you pay for the losses. The bigger issue is voltage drop. In a larger house, you definitely run 12 up to the first junction, then 14 from there just to reduce inductance and resistance and still use a 15amp breaker. In some areas, it is even code that you are actually required to do this beyond about 50-75ft (most places closer to 100ft).
Thank you for the information, please make more videos of basic electrical procedures. Thanks!
Sound advice. Thanks! 👍
If you want to use wagos, make sure to get these 221 lever ones, they are sweet.
You are right, these are common DIY mistakes, also I am with you, a good electrician twist the wires...it is just good workmanship. From the code book, sure, the pig tails to a receptacle should be the same size wire. I will point out that from an engineering point of view, #14 is rated for 12 amps in the tables, but we derate this because it can only do this in short lengths and would result in over heating in all but the shortest runs. We do the same with #12 which can carry 30 amps in short lengths. (look at the tables in the code book and you will notice the footnote about derating both) For that reason, while I would never use a smaller wire, #14 in pigtail length would have no problem with carrying the load and would probably not even get warm. Another good point about the green ground screw for the DIY guy, mounting screws are not allowed for grounding, ever.....but I would rather see it grounded to a mounting screw than not at all!
Yeah, hence difference tables for "chassis wiring" and "power transmission" that you often see in tables, smaller lengths are fine. That said, if I'm running NM wire, I'm using the same gauge if anything due to convenience of snipping off a piece of the roll I'm using for the hot, neutral and ground pig tails I'm all making.
Voltage drop is proportional to length, so the heating effect per inch will be the same for a pigtail as it is for twenty feet in the wall.
14 is not rated for 12 amps , rather it is not allowed to be loaded to more than 12 amps . It actually has higher ratings in the tables for deration purposes
Ya no no mounting screw
I'm better than good, and I don't pre twist my wires, pretty sure I've not ever had a connection fail. Wire nuts are a tension device squeezing and digging into the wires. If we consider the surface area making contact it's not hard to why twisting is counterproductive, especially when the manufacturer of the wire nuts says to not do it. I believe it may be leftover from the days of ceramic nuts, in that case it's most likely better, or even necessary
I agree I always per twist Thank you
Very helpful and clear. Thank you.
You are very welcome! Glad to hear you found value in it! Thanks a lot for the feedback!
Wire size changes in a circuit happen all the time. As long as the wire ampacity exceeds the breaker there’s no issue with having different gauges of wire in a Wago. In fact one of the massive benefits of Wagos over other other wire nut alternatives is how easy it is to adapt from say 12ga to 16ga. Of course when installing a new breaker and running a new circuit you should just select the appropriate wire gauge. But oftentimes wiring is oversized for the breaker, and the equipment you’re tying in has smaller wiring than the circuit.
I seen wagos fail in high hat lighting where the lamp heat combined with attic humidity caused corrosion. Not a fan as the actual size of the surface contact is less than a regular wire nut.
@@mikemccormack3997 at least Wagos are outrageously $$$
@@mikemccormack3997how would the same not happen in a nut?
the bare wires are touching each other, and the wire nut screw ring cuts into and surrounds the outer copper surface of the wires. Then copper wire corrosion less of an issue than the metal surface of a wago ? A lot more force bears down onto the bare copper using a wire nut.@@sparksmcgee6641
@@mikemccormack3997wago got you covered with their 207-1331 it's ipx-8 rated
What I would see a lot of people do to fix the ground would be to take advantage of the length of ground wire coming out of the Romex before it gets to the twisting and just wrap that around the ground screw. This would be especially true if they forgot to ground the box. To do so quickly, they'd start the ground screw, pull the wire over to it, give it a short wrap, and tighten down the screw. Technically, this would likely violate the minimum wire length, but it would be functional. If you did it before trimming the wire to twist it, then you could leave enough length from the screw to meet the minimum length.
You can always extend the wire especially a ground with a wire nut , wago, push in , or a coppercrimp
I always leave one long just for that reason. I've seen some old houses where the bond was pinched under the box. Not code but at least it has a bond
@@biffmalibu3733 I've seen metal boxes tied to conduit where the ground was secured to the danged clamp for the conduit + box connection. Then you get to the panel and see a massive bare copper cable tied from the panel through the concrete, literally "grounding" the ground.
Dawg...get this . back in the day with metal conduit (running between metal boxes) you didn't need a designated ground wire ... You only needed to pull in your current carrying (hots)and your neutrals... the mechanically connected pipe itself acted as the ground
Also when all plumbing was copper... An exceptable ground was taking a grounding electrode conductor (bare copper) from the panel and basically clamping it to a cold water pipe. (Which is still practiced today where there is copper plumbing ..but only as a supplementary (essentially backup) ground)....
Outstanding advice
Nicely explained. Very clear. No waffle. 👍👍👍
As I can see, In Canada, we have better boxes. The box comes with the larger ground screw and there is a recess on each side of the screw which keeps the wire from going out. Even with your green screw and the fact that you correctly looped the wire around the screw, the wire tends to go out of the screw on the left side. We also have theses green screws but usually, they have something to retain the wire in the receptacle to retain the wire. Nice video and well explained.
Yep, the boxes here pretty much always come with the ground screw. I think the green screw might be more of an American thing though as the screw that comes on boxes here are usually a silver colored pan head with a much wider head that helps lock the wire in place better. We do have some receptacles and light switches here that come with a green ground wire screw, but I'd imagine that those are built to American electrical standards, but have also gained CSA approval.
But you are still in Canada so does it matter much that your boxes are better? Canada, where freedom goes to die...
@@billymacktexasdetective5827 Careful casting stones there bro. The country South of Canada has no freedom other than the freedom to make poor choices and that is the last I'll say about that (off topic). The fact a plastic box even HAS a ground screw in it is to make it brain dead easy to locate the ground cluster by following the wire attached TO that screw. Personally, I just wish all these boxes were deeper than they are so I don't have to stuff the wires in like the worst game of Tetris ever invented when installing dimmers and timers.
@stevedixon921 Easy there. That country that apparently makes those poor choices is the ONLY reason Canada has not been invaded and claimed by whomever really. So let's not get carried away!
@@brizzle8797Not something I choose to unpack today, but thank you for the candor. Have good day now, eh.
Small correction: You do not NEED to use a ground screw to ground the box. Article 250.8 A) lists permitted methods for grounding and bonding, #5 is "machine screw-type fasteners that engage not less than two threads or are secured with a nut". So any 10-32, 8-32, 6-32 etc. type screw can be used as long as it engages at least two threads or is secured by a nut. Note you cannot use regular wood or sheet rock screws. With that being said those ground screws are a great option because the wide head makes it easy to grip the wire, but if you don't have them handy, a regular machine screw will satisfy code requirements.
I think the intention of the NEC code is to ensure a coarse threaded screw ( i.e. wood screw or sheetrock screw) is not used for this purpose. A machine screw thread, has a much tighter thread, and is less likely to come loose from its metallic seat.
A lot of people think that screw has to be green and it does not. the only screw that has to be green is when you are bonding a service neutral to the ground in a panel or first means of disconnect.
Although you are technically correct. It's bad trade practice. I know of inspectors who would fail just because a proper ground screw was not used. However that was Canada, where bad trade practice or sloppy work is written into the CEC as failable. Not sure about the NEC. In Canada the same thing applies to not pretwisting your conductors for marrettes/wirenuts. It's bad trade practice and failable.
Can you still use grounding clips? I’ve seen 1980s construction that just clipped the wires to front edge of the box.
And I have failed inspection solely for not using green on a new sub panel and garage install.
Always learn something watching your videos and reading the comments. Thanks.
Really glad to hear it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
THANK YOU .. !!! GOD BLESS YOU AND FAMILY ...!!!!!! { GARY }
Once you have a Wago connector filled, do a wrap of tape around it. It prevents the levers getting caught and potentially releasing the wire.
This is how I was taught
WAGO as a German company has a lot of accessories you won’t find elsewhere. Spelsberg ABOX SL 2.5/4 has plastic “sockets” where you can push the WAGO’s in once they’re connected, which makes everything look nice and prevents the levers to be opened. Google for an image - it’s brilliant and an incredible time saver.
@@maxking3 Any idea if those boxes are code-compliant in the US?
@@PongoXBongo I can only see the VDE certs for these boxes on their website. Other components are listed also with IEC and UL Type Ratings, which would be sufficient for the US. So I guess the answer is either „No“ or „Not yet“. (But they‘re really cool nonetheless!)
just what i got on you tube just now to see how to do something just like the project you were showing..perfect timing...thanx..
You are very welcome! Glad you liked it and it was good timing. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
There was a short period of time in the 1950's where grounded wiring was used but not grounded outlets. The ground wires were connected to the boxes only. My house was done this way so I went around to every outlet with a grounded box, replaced the receptacles with three prong, and used pigtails to connect them to the grounded boxes.
Should have used plastic boxes . Unless you had metal cable .
@@gerdberg4188 not practical, how are you gonna replace all the boxes with plastic without destroying the house
@@gerdberg4188 Metal boxes are still used here and they still have to be grounded as well.
That time period varied. My mother's house - built in 1962 - had ground wires running to the boxes only. That made it easy to change to grounded outlets. The boxes are small, and GFCI outlets would not fit until Eaton offered their smaller ones. Another thing I had not seen before: No wire nuts in the original wiring. Instead, wires had been stripped, twisted, and a sleeve crimped around them, then a wrap with rubber tape. That took a LOT of labor.
I think that the grounded boxes of some years ago, even conduit that ran between boxes used an outlet that self grounded through the mounting ears to the metal box. When changing outlets in these older boxes make sure you don't grab a handful of the 49 cent vriety. Most of those do not self ground to an older system. That cheap shit should be outlawed, 49 cents against a correct outlet which will save your house or life.
I ran into two of the issues you are illustrating. First, the metal octagon box I encountered and got shocked from didn’t have the bonding screw connecting the ground wire to the box. Second, it did have a metal romex connector installed but the wire was in at a steep angle and the installer tightened the clamp too tight, cutting into the hot wire and electrifying the box! I wasn’t working on that circuit but just bumped my elbow into it with a surprise! So lesson is, when using the metal wire clamps make sure to run the wire straight into the center and don’t over tighten!
Excellent video. Re WAGO lever nuts, on occasion I've had correctly installed levers pop up. Now I wrap them all with electrical tape, problem solved.
I'd be much more concerned with the connectorless wire insulation being cut by the rough edge of the box than the wiring being pulled loose. But, I also put a romex staple within 12" of the box.
Right on! 👍
Good point. I had a neutral wire get frayed from the box when installing it Didn't realize it until I flipped the breaker on. The breaker immediately tripped and once I investigated and found the problem, I realized how lucky I was I didn't burn the house down. If I hadn't been there and it hadn't tripped, it could have been bad news. Do be careful when pushing the wires back in the box.
Like others have said… the 14awg combo isn’t all bad for such a short run since it will not cause much voltage drop, but it would be a weak point depending on the length of the run being used. 4 inches of 14 awg can easily carry 20 amps if the total run resistance does not cause the voltage drop to pull enough amps over 14awg to cause a fire.
still a code violation
Thank you 9n educating me on this. Now being careful as always I be helping out old great people in my neighborhood.
Pretty sure you're allowed to run 12 gauge wire off a 15A breaker if you want/need in which case the 14 gauge wire would be fine. That being said if it was off a 20A breaker I'd generally avoid it but I would have to review the appropriate electrical code to see if there are any special cases that would allow 14 gauge wire to be used for 20A which may apply.
You can run #12 on a 15 amp. However, should never run different sized wires on a circuit. The next person may assume the circuit is capable of a 20 amp circuit breaker. Every situation is different.
@@HowToHomeDIY Agreed.
@@HowToHomeDIY if the next person assumes , then they did not do their home work . Yes you can protect 12 gauge at 15 amps . Maybe you have a 450 foot run to an out building with a piece of equipment . It could very well require 10 gauge wire to support a 15 amp circuit . You cannot protect 14 gauge any higher than 15 amps in any case no exceptions . Well except motors of course .
@@gerdberg4188 what's the ampacity of 14ga THHN? Much higher than 14NM-B
@@etherealrose2139 the conductors in the Romex assembly are thhn
These “wrong” connectors with the black cables are actually the standard in new houses in the Netherlands now.
You didn't watch until the end, did you? ;)
@@davidjrb I’m afraid you’re right 😂
Good presentation. I have seen green wire huts with a hole in the end which you push one ground wire through to go to the bonding nut. Twisting them all together is the best.
Thank you for the info. Great video!
You are very welcome! I am really glad to hear you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
You didn’t mention the backstabbed receptacles ‘electricians’ love to use!!! Strange, weren’t all those wire nuts twists installed by “licensed electricians???” I’ve seen substandard electrical installations by ‘professionals’ my entire life (in my 60s). First thing I do in a new residence is check all the receptacles and wire nuts. As far as UL Wagos, anything that will help the DIYer do a safe connection should be encouraged.
I was looking for a comment on stabbed in wires on devices. I refuse to use that method. Same goes with using wagos. Screw terminals and wirenuts only, for me.
I despise those things. Every time I have to service an outlet with those used, they never release correctly and I need to cut and restrip the wire.
@@ElementofKindness Wagos are fine if used correctly. They're UL tested and NEC approved. They're also easier to add or remove circuits. We use them in industrial applications all the tie.
@@njineermike so are stab in receptacles, but I still don't use them. I'd like to see infrared images of stab connections and wagos at full circuit current.
@@ElementofKindness Those images are available on this platform. The difference between the Wagos and stab in receptacles is that Wagos are serviceable and stab in are supposed to be, but either the wire tends to fail at the connection point, or the stab release fails and the wire has to be cut. Both situations make the connection point unusable and requiring replacement of the entire receptacle because there is a wire fragment stuck in it.
The third most common beginner mistake is to not do a box fill calculation to be sure the box volume is large enough to accommodate the wires, etc. This can be a big problem when adding something on to a preexisting box like a GFCI or more wires to retrofit a new branch for another plug down the line.
Lrnd tht a long time ago. Always use a deep box for gfci,dimmers,Decora it's not much more money and you will save on the labor or work harder to save money up front but I lrned a longwhile time is money and so is energy lol
Its more the hard to bend copper that is the issue when trying to get a gfci outlet in there. Yes the gfci is a lot deeper but trying to get those 14 gauge wires to bend and push back into that tiny box is a task in itself. Maybe super flexible romex 🤷🏽♂️
So now I have to learn what a "box fill calculation" is!!! When do I stop being a beginner and enter the intermediate stage of DIY'ing? I mean, I've stabbed myself with sharp wires at least 50 times and got tickled by the zappy electrons twice!
@@Mike_H76 sparky channel or electrician u great vids on the topic
Y a that’s right some wants a gfi …..old metal box …….three pairs no ground …..gfi won¡t fit ……. I am sorry it is only going to cost you 500 dollars to change this outlet !!!!!!
Excellent very helpful. Thank you
Thanks for the info
I'll just throw this out there as a general tip for anyone working on older houses like mine. Always treat the box, receptacle, whatever you're working on as if it is live. Even if you just flipped the breaker and tested the circuit. I'm remodeling my kitchen, in a house that was built in 1920. Wiring is sketchy to say the least, but everything I've found so far in the wall I'm working on is modern Romex so I wasn't too worried. Yeah, well I shut off power to a circuit I was going to modify and add some receptacles to. I plugged a tester into the outlet I was about to take apart, it did nothing. Once I took the cover off and pulled the receptacle out a bit I tested the circuit with a multi-meter. No juice detected. So I started disconnecting things. I had already pulled the hot wires off and was working on the neutral wires. As soon as I got one of them a bit loose and was wiggling it to pull it away from the screw I got a bit of arcing. I was wearing mechanics gloves with a rubberized coating, and using tools with plastic handles, so I didn't feel anything. My theory now is some other circuit nearby must be stealing neutral from the one I was working on. Pretty common in old houses. At that point I told my wife to light some candles and shut the main power off to finish the work. So yeah, just like with guns, always assume it's "loaded". There are videos out there on how to safely work on live circuits. You shouldn't do it on purpose, but using the techniques every time you touch a circuit is a good plan anyway.
Even newish house. Mine was built in 1999. Flipped breaker to living room tested an outlet and confirmed no power. Oh but the corner outlet near the hallway was live. Ouch…
And...know who you're working with. While I'm adding ceiling lights and juice for an electric oven the homeowner was in the back of the house working on the bathroom wiring which I had no idea he was doing. When I throw in the breakers and walk back into the kitchen I hear his wife screaming about a fire and I could smell overheated wires. I thought I had made mistakes but his wife made him tell me the truth. He undid his work and my work tested perfect. He tried to lie about it but I had separated, metered and marked all wires in a 3-unit box when I started and when I hurriedly saved the breakers and began metering those wires again they were different than before. I showed him and his wife made him admit what he'd done. Without her I would have been there for days.
Was working in an old church and had a neutral wire arc to another neutral with the breakers already cut...
@@t3hgr8gabbo fun times!
Additionally, all the wires coming into the box should extend a minimum of 6-in from the final finished surface (box edge if surface mounted or plaster ring if recessed) once spliced together which may mean leaving up to 9-10 inches of stripped wire in the box for each conductor. The pigtails don't count as this length. This is the biggest mistake DIY-ers make with ANY kind of electrical box.
NEC 300.14 => 6" of free conductor from the point where it emerges from the sheath, and if the box is smaller than 8" on a side (like you can't get you hand in the box because its just a two gang box), then 3" of the total must extend beyond the opening. Most nail on plastic boxes are less than 3" deep. Working with wires that come out just 3" from the box totally sucks. But that is minimum code. My habit is to have 9" total length of free conductor. Easier to work with.
I go 8 inches from where they come in to the end because that's my hand size easy to make it all the same
Not just DIY’ers. I’ve seen plenty electricians cut the wires too short. I always cut the wires to the length of my lineman’s when cutting in. That way you have plenty extra when you go to trim out. Nothing worse that having to do service work on devices that have about 3 inches of wire past the box.
That's a myth that needs busting, its not from the box edge, its from where it comes into the box. Too long can be just as much of a pain or more than too short, especially with larger gauge wires on bigger receptacles, you're not even close to approaching box fill from a yoke and wires standpoint, but its obviously ridiculously too crowded when you try to shut it up.
@@snap-off5383 It's my "opinion" that it should which is why I wrote "should" rather than "shall." By code, conductors shall extend at least 3-in from any box with an opening less than 8-in in any dimension. So if you're installing a deep metal wall case (4-in) you need at least 7-1/2-in of stripped wire to meet code minimum (taking minimum bending radius into account). Strip the wires ~3/4-in to terminate to a device, and you're attaching that device about two inches away from the front of the box. Fun. But go ahead, let's tell the DIY-ers that it's okay to do that crap. Who cares about professional best practices anyway? Right?
Great video. I’m running new power to my garage to get more outlets. They previously ran power thru the cinder block. I’m trying to find a video that shows the proper way to bring power from the basement thru to the garage.
DIYer giving electrical advice, love to see it!
Glad to hear it.
with respect to the ground wires. I find that it is easier to take the ground wire from the incoming cable and cut it a little longer. Then loop it around the ground screw and with the extra length you can then twist it together with the remaining ground wires.
Yup that would work. Although surprisingly I have had people argue with me on that too haha. Thanks for the input.
@@HowToHomeDIY very nice video
I'veused green wire nuts with a hole in the top, so you can leave the supply conductor extra long, twist the other wires around it a few inches down from the end, and feed the resulting pigtail through the wire nut top. This is more secure, and keeps you from having an extra conductor in the nut. (these are large nuts, and can take plenty of conductors. But if you are on the edge...)
@@50srefugee interesting. I've never seen a green one, nor one with a hole. thanks
Make sure IF you use the continuous conductor as your ground that you leave enough wire before hitting the ground screw. At some point those wires are going to move and that pinched ground is going to break. If you leave a neat 3" or 4" before the screw you'll be able to extend the ground in the box and save a headache.