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Grass, Clay, Hard, and... Carpet?
Having once held the proud status throughout the late 20th century as one of the four main court types used at the professional level, why exactly did tennis' most predominant indoor playing surface wither away into obscurity?
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Removing all the carpet in my house so Roger will want to come and visit
hahahaha
😂😂😂
Spicy!!!
mitch for president!
You’re a hoot, good one. 😂
My personal theory about why carpet courts were abandoned is that they had to be vacuumed after every single event, and the vacuuming team consistently told their management about how much it sucked.
Okay tbf sucking is exactly what a vacuuming team should be doing
Ayyyyyy
Unless the website blocks the well know VPN sites IPS!
That had to be intentional. Otherwise it sucks.
Impossible, since when has a manager actually made changes when something at work was a strain on those under him/her lmao
Lemme get this straight. Federer could not only control the surface, but also the type of surface at a Masters tournament? Damn these tournament directors are really after the money.
Nah, that's just "conspiracy theory"
All Federer did was boycott the tournament, right? It was the guy in charge of that tournament who was all obsessed about getting him to stop boycotting, come back *and win*.
So basically everyone was sucking Federer because he brought the viewers and the money. And they made it so he wins. And this sport is a "fair competition"? Why do people even follow pro sports. Its all a scam to the bone. Its roman gladiators or Wrestling in a nutshell. It's fake story's for the amusement of the commoners.
@@AlexanderKrivacsSchrder Yeah that's right. Federer did nothing wrong. He's allowed to request things from tournaments. What was messed up was the tournament directors choosing their marketability over tennis. Imagine if a director made the US Open Clay or the French Open an indoor hard. That director would be crucified alive.
Well, apparently he also told them which he prefers and suddenly snap he won. I'm a Fed Fan but that's def weird. I don't get why he didn't like it. It's fast as grass 💁♂️
Interesting thing about Wimbledon changing it's grass surface composition a year after Goran Ivanisevic won it as a total outsider. He accepted a wildcard invitation to the tournament as his ranking had fallen to something like 127 in the world, but with his serve and volley style he goes and wins the entire thing beating Rafter in an epic 5 setter. I guess the organizers didn't like the idea of this happening again, as that style of play has all but seemingly disappeared from the game, at least among the elite.
Pretty pathetic really that tennis will straight up change the meta of the sport to either suit or crush a single person for basically no reason
@@THICCTHICCTHICC I don't agree - what you are removing is a style of play - the serve volley - as a threat to non-serve volley players. Also, by making rallies longer, you are lowering the odds of a 'shock result' - thus favouring the higher ranking players.
All your doing is favoring a less creative way of playing.
@@shadowside8433 it’s not just favoring higher ranked players. Changing all surface to behave more homogeneous inevitably hurts some playstyles more than others. Players that could have the potential to be top players are thus removed from the potential pool of top player candidates. This hurts the game imo as it makes playing styles more homogeneous as well
He should’ve lost in the semi. Only to be saved by the rain(maybe light) I can’t fully remember. Got to recharge and then go again the next day, he was on the ropes.
Tennis has always been corrupt. The statement “the organizer wanted Federer to win the title once” is an absolute disgrace and is as bad as match fixing
How about the Aussie Open final indoors at night to suit Federer.
@@diggler2002 Still crying about that?
Did you even watch the video? It was so he could play, not so he could win.
@@Al-ji4gd uh, did YOU watch the video, he says pretty clearly the organizer wanted Federer to win.
@@LDK447 No, it isn't.
who waited for 2 months for his new video eagerly
No one...
I wouldn't say eagerly, but considering I'm not subscribed I did find myself checking a week ago if a new video is up.
I freaking loved carpet. The sound of the ball hitting the surface was very distinct. I bet a lot of people assumed Nadal was the player who requested its removal. Not sure what Federer was thinking.
I don't know what Federer was thinking, he had a pretty good record on Carpet too.
Probably because he always had problems with his knees, and the cheaper carpet variants were not good for them? That's how I would imagine it, at least.
I loved the carpet too. The one I played on had low and fast bounces, a lot of half-volleys. Per the video, Fed did not specifically requested taking out the carpet. It was the tournament director's decision in his attempt to entice Fed to keep coming back.
Fed was the best carpet player in the world during his run.
I think carpet is still used in Japan on their indoor courts
I feel like pro tennis would be a lot more interesting if the tours encouraged the roughly equal use of all different surfaces and court speeds. Would force players to adapt and give different playstyles more of a chance to shine. Though carpet in particular would have to be altered to give slightly better traction and held to higher standards for stability for it to ever return in force I think.
They should consider bringing them back. It would be interesting to have 4 Grand Slams on 4 different surfaces. I really hate how all the surfaces are slowly beginning to feel the same. Clay courts are feeling faster, Grass is getting slower, and even though Hard courts are versatile with their speed and composition, they're all beginning to feel so bog-standard by comparison. If they are all going to be the same, than what is the point of even having the different surfaces?
AO should be carpet 😂
@@jonathanchen1026 No, the US Open should. That way they can brag about the US Open being competed on all 4 surfaces.
Carpet was never used at the majors. From 1975 - 1977 the USO was played on green clay, which is a bit faster than red clay.
It's like people dont see the videos or something, the risk of injury is so much higher on a carpet surface
Yeah, makes tennis more boring. I remember McEnroe making the finals of the French with his serve and volley game. That was masterful. I can't think of anyone else ever doing that.
The editing is so under-appreciated, it’s absurd. Love the videos, can’t wait for the next.
I grew up on clay but there were (and still are a few surviving today) some carpet courts in our neighborhood. Quite frankly, looking back I see more upsides than downsides - virtually zero maintenance, consistent bounce, by definition never any line problems unlike on clay, as far as movement for me the surface didn't slip but didn't lock hard either, best of all balls last twice as long. What I disliked about the ones that were outdoor was how poorly they drained. Sometimes we would find them still soggy 48 hours after a rain storm.
Outdoor carpet is fine because it's a permanent installation. My dad liked it because it played slower than hard courts due to the sand content.
They changed our clay courts to clay/carpet and they stayed quite similar in basic playability. We didn’t have the problem with drainage though, and were often back out there quicker after a rain than the people who preferred our hard courts. The biggest drawback was also water for us, with excessive wear and the constant need for top watering. We couldn’t keep them from drying out. In a couple years there were already slippery places where the carpet had been ground smooth by dry grains under shoes. We thought it was in large part because of the lack of added expensive clay, too thin, so didn’t hold much water.
I played on indoor carpet courts a lot in high school. Loved how much grip they had as the spin on your ball would greatly affect the bounce. A slice serve could jump several feet to one side after bouncing and really throw people off
yeah I played on carpet when I was 13/14 and I loved it!!!
I just realized now, that back when I was playing tennis, I actually mostly played on indoor carpet and I loved it more than clay, gras or hard surfaces. It was very cozy in a way and not as rough as clay for example. I also really liked that you have better grip on the carpet and don't slide around that much.
I am amazed the quality of this video production - first the content and talking points, then the footage/images/graphics/glyphs used to illustrate, music and voice over, then edits and transitions. All in all, a top tier studio quality production.
Me and my dad have always agreed that one of the w hard court slams should've been made to be carpet. It would make all 4 distinctly different and if you won all 4 it would show who is the best overall. I know AO and USO have different versions of hard court, but it's still hard court...
Agree. Hard courts are brutal on the body too.
Yes but it isn't that bad considering it isn't the same hard court has you said but probably with 4 different court will be more interesting
How about wood?
@@Justanoldrunner like a basketball court? Might work, but it would be rapid...
@@levdiniho12 Yes, the US nationals used to be played on wood courts. I think it was in the 1930s
I always love how high quality these are! Keep up the Work Cult Tennis
Really like your videos. Please make a big video on Roger Federer his whole timeline his ups and downs in one video . Would love that
Honestly, great vid!! Also that editing was very impressive
I really appreciate the content! Every time a video is posted, it's always at my "watch later" for when I'm free because watching this is a top priority. 😆 I've known that carpet surfaces exists because of Virtua Tennis (I just know that it exists and nothing else haha) but I absolutely love that your content delves into lesser known facts about the matter and tennis itself! Keep up the astounding work!
Absolutely top tier content as usually. Fantastic work!
This is actually pretty damming stuff. That chart of the average rally length is astonishing. No wonder Federer's not been able to win more as the years have gone on. While it's certainly good to have a bit more consistency and longer rallies are generally better than one shot serve volley plays, variety is also key. Moreover, super long five hour games are just as boring in many ways - the interest comes from the crunch points, not the endless baseline back and forth.
Yeah it’s pretty sad, the grindy baseline rallies are incredibly boring in my opinion.
Federer wasn't able to win at the ATP Finals since he was 30. It's normally the fastest surface of the year.
Would be nice to have a video on wood surface! I know there were some tournaments way back in the day that played on wood.
The US indoor nationals
Many of Federer’s best matches of his career were on carpet. This is some startling info here.
Great job holding attention. Your transitions and foreshadowing are elegantly utilized to really effectively maintain interest.
Waited for a new video for a while and it was worth it! Great video as always!
Another amazing video! I had no idea carpets were used as a court surface. My knees and ankles are hurting just thinking about it!
I've played once on an indoor hardcourt, and many times on indoor carpet. As an amateur, you can't really slide on either, and in terms of ankle stability both are vastly inferior to clay. But I'd still prefer carpet to hardcourt, since it feels a bit softer and doesn't squeak.
I actually learned tennis on an outdoor carpet court. It was fun.
I vaguely remember wood courts. Probably team handball or badminton courts set up for tennis in the winter season. I think depending on the lacquer, shots with heavy backspin would slide almost horizontally
@@themountain3461 Oh yeah, I played on that a few times. We call it Parkett in Germany. Not a great surface, and the ones I played on had a lot of dead spots where the ball wouldn't bounce.
On the contrary, I have no idea carpets were banned. Thought many of the indoors ATP matches were on carpet before watching this video.
I used to enjoy watching carpet tennis (and still play on it) but never really looked into why and how it was permanently removed. Great informational video.
Keep up the good work ! Amazing and consistent tennis content !
we have carpet courts in our town, always enjoyed playing on them, a nice contrast to the slow clay courts we have.
Roger even said in an interview that his favourite surface is indoor carpet. Why the change?
Why Serve and Volley become a thing of the past.... Worth the wait. Real quality content.
Dude, your videos have such a high production value, it is ridiculous. Besides that they are informative and entertaining. Keep up the work.
Perfect job on the Nord ad. Very relevant to the content. 👍
Great video you do so much research and have a great voice lol. Keep up the good work
I pretty much grew up on indoor surface, and like it to this day. Never even played hardcourts until 2 years ago. Think it's a shame, a (proper build) carpet could bring a new spin to the game. But then again, I absolutely detest the trend towards slower surfaces, so that might be a reason why I like it.
The ATP should reconsider. You need faster and slower surfaces throughout the year to bring variety in the game. Otherwise, the courts play too similarly and the approach to the game do not sufficiently change across tournaments.
Agree'd. In hindsight, Ancic and Tsonga's complaints were justified. The game *HAS* gotten too slow, and now there really aren't different playstyles anymore, everyone is a Defensive baseline grinder these days because the slowness of todays game facilitates that style.
in germany almost every amateur tennis hall (which is mainly used during winter) has carpet courts.
I've been waiting for a video on carpet courts! As always, was a great video!
Another masterpiece of a video! I've always wondered about why carpet tennis were removed, Seeing highlights of old matches, the courts were too fast with barely any rallies. Keep up the incredible work my man!
In the vein of weird surfaces: - I recall some tennis courts being hardwood on major tournaments in the 60s and 70s, also very fond of Davis Cup heroics for Paraguay in the 80s. I don't know if they have things in common with the plywood black surface from the NY open and the Laver cup. - Are there professional tournaments played on turf/artificial grass? It is more common in amateur game (easy to install and mantain), and became the standard on Padel tournaments for some time now.
Do you know more bout the artificial grass..? I'm interested in build a court in future, with this surface..
Your videos are great man. Awesome work!
Great to see a new video from cult tennis
I grew up learning tennis in the winter months on carpet . I absolutely loved it and still do , a good slice is deadly and the slice serves win a lot of points . Not sure at all why Federer's game wouldn't suit that. I do agree about the " dead " spots though , there are times when the ball doesn't seem to bounce at all ..
Thanks for replying to my editor submission, I hope yall found a great fit! Great vid btw!
Just as a side note, kudos for the smoooooth segue to the ad read. You made the sponsor's product directly relevant to tennis.
I remember the Toronto Open. Was a one time thing in the SkyDome where the Toronto Blue Jays play. Was tournament in winter, and was to test the waters as a continuing event, while Canadian Open was summer outdoor event.
Great video mate!!!❤
Every video is better and better! Great stuff!
Actually a well used surface at clubs in UK/Europe is Astro turf so would love to know more about that, also Artificial Clay
Astroturf is extremely popular in Australia.
Not many people talking about how big of a scandal is that a tournament director changes the surface of a tournament not once but twice just to fulfill the wishes of a player since he wants him to win... and that it's Federer and his team who tell the tournament director which Austrian company he needs to contact to build the court since they use a specific resine he fancies. As soon as Federer gets the court he exactly wants, he wins the tournament, his only title in Paris Bercy.... I mean lol this is corruption.
I agree completely it’s a little crazy how no one seems to care
I heard about this but it was just rambling, but man, how he corrupt that is, if he was benefitted that time, then how many more?
I think it has to do with wanting him to compete in his tournament. That´s completely normal since he was the number 1
Did you clowns no watch the video? Jesus. Are all Nadal fans illiterate?
facts
This is such a highly quality documentary. Well done!
Early! Thank you for the hard work as usual, Cult Tennis Production!
Those Becker-Sampras carpet matches were incredible. The surface was a huge part too.
2:15, this sounds like how old school astroturf was set up in multi-sport stadiums before field turf entered the picture
I've played on both indoor and outdoor. Indoor in Men's Open and outdoor with sand (Omni Court) in the USTA juniors. Actually made it to a final on Omni Court in 18 and under. That surface was really fun, image playing on a surface with a bounce like modern grass court but you slide into your shots like on Clay because of the sand.
OMG great story. Great content as usual!
The editing is amazing. What software or app do you use?
In Germany pretty much all indoor courts still have carpet, sometimes with granules to imitate clay courts a bit. Always funny to switch from clay to carpet, takes a session to get used to but after that i dont see a problem with it. You can fuck up your ankles just as much on hard court or grass.
70% of all injuries on the ATP Tour happen on Hard Courts even to this day, ironically the most common surface in the world. So I don't believe the part about Carpet Courts facilitating injuries.
@@666kingdrummer And what percentage of matches are played on hard courts? More or less than 70%?
Grass courts don't use traditional topsoil, they use a blend of soils, sands, clay and silt to form an extremely compacted layer which allows the ball to bounce, albeit less than on a more traditional "hard" surface.
Good storytelling and really good editing, couldnt care less about tennis but the video vas intresting even to me!
HOLY CRAP HE POSTED
I wish we still had the fast/low bounce grass, slow/high bounce clay, medium/medium hard, and fast/high bounce carpet. The sport is truly missing the diversity of playing styles it that we used to have and I believe the slowing down of court surfaces is the biggest culprit. The loss of carpet entirely as a surface is definitely part of that issue.
Gotta love all the work put into these videos. They're stellar. And yes, tennis isn't that big of a sport that they can get the luxury of gatekeeping fans by region locking the matches. There should be a central hub to watch everything from anywhere for a reasonable price.
this should be the case for ALL sports but likely not possible bc of capitalism lol
Make more videos. Underrated KZheadr
I thought it would be Nadal who requested the removal of the carpet. Very surprised it’s Federer. If Federer doesn’t like it, it must suck.
or it simply doesn't suit his game, like stated in the video
This video is oriented, the carpets were all very different, often of poor quality. It cost less, players have suffered too many times!!! As for Federer, he simply did not like that of Bercy, too slow and in which we blocked our feet. Honestly, the disappearance of tennis carpets has done a thousand times more good than harm.
Thanks for another interesting video on the demise of the carpet surface for tennis tournaments
i mean, the clip where that temporary carpet peels off and makes the guy fall is enough to make me agree with the decision. wtf was that?
Bro, that ankle sprain almost made me throw up lol, I felt that in my soul. I'm never walking again to eliminate the chances of that happening to me.
Great video!
You can not show this Stich incident without a warning, Jesus, it took me years to come over seeing his ankle being distroyed.
The narrator waits until the 7&3/4 minute mark to tell us why carpet tennis courts were banned, the increase in injuries. That's a huge amount of time to finally make your point.
Good video, I enjoyed it. But in your list of surfaces on which the game has been played, you left out wood. In fact, the US National Indoor Championships used to be played on wood at the 7th Regiment Armory in New York City. I attended for a few years. Chuck McKinley played the tournament, and, as I recall, won it at least once. I also played on wood for a few winters when I was young. And if you think grass or carpet is fast, well, you haven't played on wood.
Amazing editing
I remember watching carpet tennis from a WTA event in Quebec in I think 2018.
great video!
I find it hard to believe that slower courts and 6 hour matches are what today's notorious attention span demands.
Similar to carpet courts, Omni courts are quite popular here in Japan where apart from hard courts, other surfaces are very few. Here is some information about this type of court.
Where? I think you forgot to include a link.
@@johnanderson9765 it is basically an astroturf court
This is why I subscribe to KZhead: To learn about stuff I would never be able to discover anywhere else. Cheers!
Now that's the influence and power grip that Fed had (still has) on this game. 😳
You can call it influence and power, or you can call it corruption lol
@@rafagoat575Seems like it’s the tournament’s fault. The tournament staff don’t have to listen to Fed’s requests. Madrid didn’t keep their blue clay after Federer won it the only time (it was on blue clay) in 2012.
@@RunRecoverRallyYou don't need to wonder what happened lol You can go ahead and read an interview in L'Equipe with Jean-François Caujolle, Paris-Bercy tournament director back then Lol He was a Federer fan and he wanted Federer to play and win.. Federer wasn't playing because didn't quite like the surface. So they contacted him, and he told them the exact Austrian company they had to contact to build the court... made with a resine he liked. And they did lol... but once it was finished, Federer didn't like it 100%, so you know what they did? Build it again.... and now yes, Federer loved it, he won that year and it was his only title lol. This is corruption. The blue clay was a scandal, top players didn't want it, even FEDERER was against it. It was slippery and dangerous. But the owner Ion Tiriac didn't give a fuck, thought it was cool and they made it. But after seeing how players were constantly falling and confirming it was dangerous, they didn't make it anymore. That wasn't about Federer or any other player, it was about Ion Tiriac.
@@rafagoat575 ah alright you got me. I made assumptions and I was wrong. Good stuff
I love carpet...played lots of it in Italy and Spain...grass carpet is also awesome, my favorite...
Ooooo yes, always wondered why carpet courts disappeared before I stated watching tennis 👀
I was always confused watching tennis court videos trying to figure out which one my area had, guess I now know it’s a outdoor carpet court!
Best tennis channel. Not even a close second.
This is so interesting, I think there is a carpet court in my hometown, I played once when I was a kid. I will definitely go to check it next time I go there!
We have a turf tennis courts near by my work. I play on it at least once a year since we don’t have any grass near us. I will say it is tougher on the legs than Clay, need to compare it to grass but haven’t had that chance yet.
5:03 Yikes! That ankle'd make MacGregor cry!
5:02 OMG!!! I felt that pain
I frequently play on an indoor carpet court but never got used to it. The level of traction is indeed too high that sometimes I feel I will easily break my knees. The ball speed is extreme and the spin effect is crazy resulting in an extremely heavy ball which is not comfortable at all. The smell is also very intrustive.
Carpet is a fun beginners surface as it massively slows down the ball, but the grippy surface can be hell on the ankles, and there’s absolutely zero sliding that you get with clay to compensate.
It’s actually lightning fast and very low bouncing.
I watch the video because Marat Safin was in the thumbnail 😅 I remember Marat was one of the few players who excel in carpet surface. It might be the reason why he get injured a lot throughout his Career.
Great tournaments were played on indoor Carpet : WCT Dallas, Masters ITF (except 1974 and 1975), ATP Tour World Championships (until 1996), Tennis Masters Cup (2005), Grand Slam Cup (until 1997) ...
In my club we have synthetic clay. It plays similar to clay but much faster with slightly lower bounce height
It makes the most sense to me for the court to be in the dead center or as close as possible between fast play and slow play, and then that being the universal standard for all courts
in german speaking countries (germany / switzerland/ austria) we play indoors on carpets during the whole winter season... carpet courts are the norm and its extremely difficult to find hard courts
The ITF tour still uses carpet, as well as the Wolffkran Open which is an ATP Challenger tournament
There’s other surfaces that you did not mention. The US indoors used to be played on wood. In India, some tennis courts were on cattle dung.
I have played on wood in the 80:s. By far the fastest court. I loved indoor carpet (Bolltex) installed on wood. Best court of all-time 😄
Such a shame. I got to play on some of the green carpet that they used to use at the WTA indoor event in Zurich. It really was beautiful underfoot - really cushioned like an actual plush carpet. The bounce was great too.
Outdoor synthetic (fake grass) are still hugely popular in Australia, we basically only have hard courts and outdoor carpet over here, I love the synthetic courts, so much fun to slide on
Not in Vic. Most clubs are clay court
@@DanTuber oh wow find that surprising, I'm in NSW, just assumed it was similar in other states, my bad
I really like the content you make and I absolutely like tennis From South Africa🇿🇦
So the Paris Masters 1000 director changed the surface from carpet to hard court in 2006 because he wanted Roger to win at the tournament and still it took more 5 years for that to happen 😅
So now that Roger is retired, will carpet make a comeback?