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Tekken 8 has an entire replay system where you can RE-LIVE YOUR L's in REAL TIME, and the GAME EXPLAINS TO YOU HOW TO WIN...some games back then didn't even have training mode.
@agni2051Ай бұрын
The replay system doesn't work 90% of the time, and when it does it just says things like "Shoulda broken that throw lol"
@SharkofspaceАй бұрын
@@Sharkofspace finally someone saying this
@ledgy69Ай бұрын
@@Sharkofspace practice your throw breaks bro wym
@agni2051Ай бұрын
@@agni2051 What does that have to do with anything? My point is that replays don't actually tell you how to beat most things, and when they do, it's generic "Simply win the match" type advice that doesn't help you.
@SharkofspaceАй бұрын
@@Sharkofspace "last hit in the string can be ducked and punished" "This hit is launch punishable" They literally tell you how to beat lots of things wym
@agni2051Ай бұрын
People want to discredit people who win no matter what.
@fordprefect5104Ай бұрын
It’s simply because they can’t fathom people using their brain and not running into their shit
@lainfromthewired6683Ай бұрын
If you are a pro player thats great, if you are not thats just stupid.
@helivega299Ай бұрын
Or they believe old best pros should be the best in newer games too, otherwise the game is wrong.
@blueisacolor7639Ай бұрын
DSP and LTG lol
@JaceAce22Ай бұрын
@@helivega299i think in most dituations thats not okay
@theviewer9363Ай бұрын
Off topic but my dad tells me stories all the time of him spending hours and hours at the arcade playing street fighter . As young as I can remember I was introduced to street fighter and would play all night with my dad . Finding this channel reminds me so much of my dad and I just wanted to thank you for your dedication into these videos and keeping the fighting game community alive.
@lexi3650Ай бұрын
It was a different time, and scene. I too played SF and many more at arcades. The interaction, and watching two people play different characters, and seeing what they do. Win or lose. It was intense, and also fun. We have come such a long way since those days. But those memories last a lifetime.
@kadosho02Ай бұрын
Here comes the actual grownup to clear things up for the FGC once again
@SPACECOWBOY705Ай бұрын
As a 1990s gamer, let me say that Max isn’t wrong!
@SlickRick4EVERАй бұрын
Back in the Arcade days, you could only wonder "How did he do that?!" and never have the answer, because: 1) You never wanted to look bad or 'weak' so you never actually asked; but 2) If you DID ask, chances are the guy you're fighting against won't tell you, or will give you a half answer at best. Fighting game players in the 90s were absolutely secretive about combos or 'tips and tricks'. They would almost never share moves or "secrets". In fact, they would go as far as _lying_ that you just need to do "this and that" and then you try it yourself and it doesn't work, and you think at first you're just too bad to do it like he told you to; when in reality he's just setting you in the wrong direction from the start. They were deceptive, lying or secretive (or a bit of all of that mixed up together). I can recall as far back as MK2, players at the Arcades lied about so much shit that it created rumors up the wazoo, enough that we talked about said supposed things that apparently were in the game in our classrooms and had debates about whether or not it was true. I myself noticed it live as I played the original Killer Instinct at Arcades, I had to figure out moves by either: 1) Pure chance (and remembering it if it ended up being a combo) or 2) Silently observing others playing and looking at their button presses and stick directions and memorizing it as best as I could. It took me until late in 1995, or early 1996 when I finally saw that famous Killer Instinct 'bible' (guide) magazine released around the same time as the SNES version came out, where I FINALLY got access to information, about combos, how to start them, how long they're supposed to be, what are the combo breakers, etc. About 90% of the information contained in the guide was completely unknown at the Arcades. Back then you'd go to Arcades, play games for as long as you're willing to hold on to your pennies, and leave after maybe 2 hours max. In that time you maybe had the chance to play a couple of matches of your favorite Fighting games, and then you went back home and you'd forget about most of the moves you did (or you'd forget about the NEW moves you might have found that day). Gaming magazines, and gaming guides (mostly guides) were our source of information at the time, we had no other reliable sources unless we had actual friends willing to share their own 'moves' with X, Y and Z characters in our favorite games (which wasn't even guaranteed). So yeah, Old School fighting games players had it rough back then, but we went along, it was our time. I can only realize it more in modern times since it changed so much. Nowadays you can have access to all sorts of guides and videos and just the Internet in general to help. Not to mention that in-game Practice modes today in most fighting games are AMAZING at teaching players how to play. We did NOT have such Practice modes back then as say... what you can find in SF6 nowadays, it's completely different. By the way, this does not remove anything from 'being good today' Vs 'being good back then'. If you were good back then, you were good; as much as if you're good today... then yeah, you're good. But back then you were VERY respected because people would be wondering "how the F_ did he get that good?!", VS today maybe the phrase would change for "how LONG have you been grinding this shit?!".
@lyrand6408Ай бұрын
You spoke for me. Thank you!
@SlickRick4EVERАй бұрын
Excellent explanation! And Max was right about the feel. Just playing with a character and figuring out what worked and dominated the competition. It felt like a race to the top of the mountain and then when you got good, you sought out another "mountain" to climb. Crazy how times have changed...
@Jedo17Ай бұрын
I remember playing Killer Instinct and MK2 in arcade and eventually at a friend's house on snes. People lied to you about moves, combos, fatalities all the time. They made it seem way more complex than what it was. I found Kano's fatality on mk1 on accident by trying to see if he can do a hadouken. Once I knew it, I fell to the Dark side and lied to anyone who asked me.
@k.o.whyyoupressinbuttonsАй бұрын
Nailed it dude! It’s a how the f? vs how long you grind? debate and they’re both impressive in thier own ways but more credit goes to how the f of back in the day. Today you could get good by not having obligations, lots of spare time, and lots of dedication. Back then it didn’t matter how much money or time you had you either learned the game by some archaic means and had the execution or you didn’t.
@invalidletterdept2662Ай бұрын
I never got WAY into fighting games. But I LOVED KI 2 in the arcade when I was a kid. I played it a ton. One guy I'd see from time to time was super good at the game. I asked him for tips, and he recommended a *book* which me and my mom went to the bookstore in the mall and ordered. Yes, a book with moves, combos etc for KI 2 in ~1997-98. Edit: Wow just found it on google, "Killer Instinct 2 Unauthorized Arcade Secrets" published May 1996 (according to Amazon).
@sean8102Ай бұрын
Newman: Because when you control the mail, you control..INFORMATION!
@theredpriestАй бұрын
Omg yes! I have no idea why you thought to quote the best mailman/Jurassic park mvp (let the Dino’s out yo) line ever, but thank you. Made my day. Love Wayne Knight so much
@franknfoot7200Ай бұрын
Jerry: NEWMAN!
@ShinRyuujiАй бұрын
Information is Power. I was 5 in 2000 my first fighting games were smash bros and Melee. There were things MY BEST FRIENDS knew and never shared with me. This honestly turned me away from fighting games for decades. And then in 2018 I found Max’s channel and gave fighting games a shot a again and now I’m playing them all the time. Once the information was available on KZhead things became easier to understand and play.
@TheAndrewJohnBennettАй бұрын
Naw power is power and information is information. Both can coexist together sometimes. You can know all the information about the game but if you ain’t moving those sticks or pads then that information is useless. Gotta put the power into the information.
@30ajgoАй бұрын
@@30ajgo No duh... What you are describing is like knowing all the rules to baseball is different from swinging a bat. Your comment is completely missing the point of what I was even saying and honestly total nonsense ... "information is power" is a very common phrase. Power isn't a literal thing like inputs, it's knowing something your opponent does not know. If I know how to throw fireballs and dragon punch and all you know is punch, kick and jump. I am going to beat you every time.
@TheAndrewJohnBennettАй бұрын
@@TheAndrewJohnBennett First you say “no duh” then you say it’s nonsense? Make up your mind cause I can tell you that “common phrase” is the real nonsense. Sure you have the information to do fireballs and dragon punch, but power is the force and effort to actually execute that move. Plus the difference in power and information is more like knowing a punch is coming and having the ability to stop it. Those are two different things and should always be.
@30ajgoАй бұрын
Bro thst happened to me with Melee. I remember folks talking about weight dash between them and they never shared with me that info until years later. It sucked
@665IronАй бұрын
@@30ajgoexactly. Knowledge doesn’t always mean execution. It can be the reason why a number of pro players aren’t the best at teaching or coaching.
@masterbrawler1298Ай бұрын
People tend to overlook how massive and influential wikipedia and the following wiki revolution was to history in general. There is suddenly a free, easily accessible database that contains any piece of information you could possibly want. People from around the world now could talk to each other and share their knowledge simply because they wanted to. It legitimately destabilized the academic world because information is no longer exclusively found in overpriced books and distributed by professors trained to teach a specific way. Fighting games have the same story, including the pushback by the older generations who can't fathom the modern world and consider looking up information at any time "cheating."
@theotherjared9824Ай бұрын
Hell, back in the day I used to pick up strategy guides for fighting games because the training modes didn't really teach you combat routes. I don't think a single training mode in the PS2/XBOX/GCUBE era even had combo challenges to help you understand how things worked.
@originalscreenname44Ай бұрын
Anybody can edit Wikipedia. If you get your education from wiki... you're not educated
@SlayerPDXАй бұрын
@@originalscreenname44 Mortal Kombat 3D era did, Both Deadly Alliance and Deception had character tutorials.
@AwakeTheFallАй бұрын
Dude my teachers forbade me from using the website as a reliable source for info. Geee, i wonder the fuck why???
@soldier257Ай бұрын
@@soldier257 Yeah I was really lucky in that even as I got to high school my teachers (the good ones anyway) starting moving from "Wikipedia is unreliable" to "Wikipedia's a good place to start and get an overall working understanding, but if you want cite-able stuff check out the references on the Wikipedia page."
@jameji_phdАй бұрын
Information is why the Speedrun community is so chill You always share everything, even a new trick you just discovered, or maybe wait a week or two The important part is to keep it fair so everybody has the same tools and it's just a matter of skill
@NicoSleepyLeenАй бұрын
funny how the community is so chill yet speedrunning can be so frustrating at times
@hacksmashАй бұрын
@@hacksmashit's always 'bout that 1 FRAME
@Gamber63Ай бұрын
@@Gamber63 and RNG
@hacksmashАй бұрын
I'm 38 years old, I 100% agree with Max here, it's not that the games got easier, which they arguably did, but it's the fact that information isn't gate kept and the learning tools have increased. I sucked at alpha, SF 2, and SF3. But 4 is when the fighting game information age really blossomed. Suddenly I'm the top 20 Guy on sf4, I hit master in sf5 and I usually float around the 1700s MR wise in sf6 after hitting master a month after I bought the game. This is because RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE. I'm sure if we had the same resources and availability back then as we do now, the landscape of legends would be far more expansive.
@geoffreytasker2097Ай бұрын
True but the real point ia the games are easy fuck all that information is available shit games are easier not just fighting games all games
@MrTD714Ай бұрын
@MrTD714 and point is if the same ease of requiring information was available then as it is now would those games really be "harder"? Imagine being able to long into windows 95, signing into AOL, and going onto a fighting game website and being able to watch high quality guides on street fighter alpha 2. Imagine alpha two having a training mode and was update to be 1 :1 with the arcade release. Do you really think it would still be Alex Valle and daigo At the top? It could be but the dynamic changes when everyone has the same information and near levels of competition. Furthermore, Remember, back in the arcade days the machines goal was to take your money so difficulty was ramped up to make you spend your quarters. So the incentive to withhold information was higher. Single player game were harder because of that. Multilayer games were harder by people not wanting to lose.
@geoffreytasker2097Ай бұрын
@@geoffreytasker2097Don't waste time you're never going to convince a guy like that he'll just come online and complain. Guys like him don't like games getting "easier" because "normal" people is invading his nerd space that's the only place these people can feel strong because in real life there weak, not just him but all the bitching online about things getting easier is because of what I stated before. SF6 is easier execution but so much to think about compared to the old games, di, Dr, parry, perfect parry, you have to waste meter to wake up dragon piunch, the older games was simpler in terms of gameplay. Imagine if we had no information to discuss online like back in the day for SF6 I can guarantee that there won't be as much masters. Gamers online hate everything it must suck to live like that.
@TheGaara802Ай бұрын
@@geoffreytasker2097Even with all the information available, the older games were still harder. Implementing the knowledge you have would be harder due to the older games having harder execution and reduced input buffer windows.
@SuperJJParkerАй бұрын
@@SuperJJParker I said information AND learning tools. if older games had Information, training modes and at home 1:1 ports, none of that which you mentioned would matter because the ability to practice would be easily available to everyone. its like like watching some one speed run elden ring or get all perfects in a rhythm game . the person played enough to learn the timings. its not that the game got any easier, They got better. I'm sure if someone went back and played those older games about put as much effort into them as they do the newer games, with the technology and information available today, they would become just as proficient.
@geoffreytasker2097Ай бұрын
It's funny because the last few years, to me, have felt like the only time where I genuinely can actually even freaking _play_ fighting games. Not only do fighting games actually have good online now, making it way easier to play them against more kinds of people. But now if I wanna learn a character I can very easily find multiple character guides on youtube for literally any game out there, and if they talk about weird obscure mechanics I've never heard before, I can also look them up. If I run into a weird character/playstyle and it seems completely unbeatable, I can google my problem and find a solution. If I have a weird misunderstanding about the very specific way a mechanic works and see an unexpected result (something as simple as a grab missing right next to my opponent and having no idea why) I can google the issue and immediately clear it up. Fighting games felt utterly impossible to get into as a kid/teen. I had literally none of these tools and there wasn't really any way to get started unless you literally just wanted to fool around with friends for a single afternoon. Today there's so much information and so much people playing them publicly that it's actually really easy to get started even on the older, more difficult games that felt impossible back then.
@KhaoMortadiosАй бұрын
At the end of the day, you aren’t the chosen one if you’re the only one given the scrolls of power, you just a dragon hoarding, awaiting the day those determined enough to slay and bring the wealth to the village.
@kinoleogeo7998Ай бұрын
My man on that dragons dogma 2 za
@XDapologistАй бұрын
@@XDapologist *Takes a big fat rip on that Za* Block this mix, Arisen.
@kinoleogeo7998Ай бұрын
*distressed Smaug noises*
@ianxoliveАй бұрын
If you grew up during the arcade era, there was always some random mofo that went on the weekends that was so cracked at a specific game people gather around them to see them destroy the game, be it DDR, air hockey, beat em ups or in this case a fighting game. Every single arcade even in the same area had their top players with their “unique” tricks. If you lived in a small town it was even funnier but you could hear about players from other arcades as if they were secret bosses of a game “omg this dude on the other side of town plays Zangief and he destroys everyone”. Then when timed passed you realize most of the time it was just a case of big fish in small pond kind of situation. They were only as good as their competition allowed them.
@Plasmacat1Ай бұрын
Yup. When you said DDR you took me right back to the arcade. I remember there was this one skinny black dude who must have been like 16 or something when I was 12. He was playing the legend of Maxx on expert and it was blowing my mind beyond comprehension because I was still at the level where I was playing freckles on medium. I was so impressed. Actually you just reminded me while I was talking about it. I remember this white dude with long hair and glasses trying to get a AAA score on freckles on expert and I remember he screwed up somewhere towards the end of the song and he slammed his fist on the machine (not the screen thank goodness) and I remember being weirded out by it.
@Rain1Ай бұрын
Yep, it's mostly access to information and higher level competition online that is the biggest game changer. Street Fighter 2 was the first ever fighting game I played. Gaming since 1993 but only casual, never joined tournaments. Used to play in the Arcades on weekends. And I'm basically unbeatable when we play fighting games during family gatherings. 😂
@EgoliftdailyАй бұрын
This is why I love Max. He always takes a step back and analyze these topics as a whole and with logic.
@MOONWOLF7395Ай бұрын
For real Max is such a great voice of reason in so many situations
@BenMorelliRGАй бұрын
I'm a vet from Tekken 1 and Street Fighter 1. I was there where most fighting games started. I can adapt to modern games just fine. Same for any other game really. "It's not better because it's not the same" is terrible mentality, and "It's amazing because I played it as a child" is even worse. A silly video game character once said "Memories are nice, but that's all they are." and they were right. That's literally it, detach your memories from the games, and you'll see how garbage it's always been. You just didn't have anything better at the time, or you just liked it because you were a silly kid and had literally zero standards, just like me, a guy who liked fucking Bubsy before he discovered Sonic and learned the harsh reality early. That was literally a month later. People who refuse to adapt to new games are just that, people stuck with "I have memories with Bubsy therefore Bubsy is the best game ever" and refusing to move past it. Move past it. It's ok. Your memories will remain. But the quality of the game has nothing to do with that. Tekken 8 is a great game and the right way to go for the series, as is Street Fighter 6. They both have their issues, but they can be fixed with updates. The way they are now, MTX aside, they're both great games. Sincerely, an old fart.
@FieryAnubisАй бұрын
This guy gets it
@maythesciencebewithyouАй бұрын
I was there from SF2, MK, Tekken 2. I can say my biggest barriers to getting good was consistent access to an arcade and lack of money. My parents weren’t letting me blow $20 at the arcade every week like a lot of good players were. I didn’t get good at SF2 until it reached the consoles, but it’s not a perfect translation execution with a joystick. When I finally had a job and made my own money I still didn’t make enough to compete, but the guys at my local arcade were welcoming enough to give me tips on MvC2. I still remember them cheering when I finally connected my first air combo 😂
@majorlazor5058Ай бұрын
Bubsy was solid but yeah sonic killed that shit😂😂. I still go back and watch bubsy play through on KZhead lol
@Hanashi_mmaАй бұрын
BUBSY WAS ANYTHING BUT SOLID 😂 =)
@SHINBAXTERАй бұрын
_-"Why, when I was your age, we ate wood and rocks!"_
@milesprowrАй бұрын
"And we had to share the rocks"
@Sgt-WolfАй бұрын
So, here we are ... Having NBA like era players discussion for the FGC, Man it's insane how people no matter what's the topic, it always comes down to the same old conversations LOL But that tells you how I'm so out of this FGC Pro Player twitter self contained cognitive bubble cause if it wasn't for Max talking about it, I would have never known what were the "issues" with this current generation of Fighting games, I just enjoy it, it's just a new set of rules you have to learn.
@doris3026Ай бұрын
I mean removing dribbling from basketball is a pretty serious change. why wouldnt you discuss it
@shaolinotterАй бұрын
Exactly. I'm 45 and I don't know about said "problems with fighting games today" stuff. I don't care about esports or competition today as I used to a few years ago. Losing, winning doesn't mean anything to me, I just play to get some enjoyment out of it, nothing else. I stop having fun? I move on and do something else instead.
@nyrva2876Ай бұрын
Agreed. Not only is the barrier of execution lowered, but now you have accessibility to learn the best stuff. There are no secrets. So with all the information being available online, of course there's gonna be a lot more good players.
@DPiddyАй бұрын
Also, being protective of information was a function of protecting the cost of your money you sink into the arcade cabinet in those times.
@themadmallardАй бұрын
This
@prlostinshadowsАй бұрын
Gatekeeping competition like how Max describes is actually something that was holding the FGC back for so long. The ego-driven fear that makes you not share tech, means that you're not exposing a weakness; true, but you will never be properly challenged or have to grow yourself to become better. Limitations on player pool will always result in stagnation, but I'm glad that technology has helped overcome that barrier for so many. And it's also why I think Mena_RD is such a beast right now. He'll play anywhere, and everywhere. Yeah, you can say that priviledge on him for being able to afford it, but it's also him exposing and sharing many other communities, and learning from them. It's a give and take, and it really does help us grow as a whole.
@VoidEternalАй бұрын
_Transcending History_ _A Tale of _*_Fighters_*_ and _*_Complaints_* _Eternally Retold._
@bazzfromthebackground3696Ай бұрын
I can only hope Soulcalibur VII repeats 1999 and comes to outshine Tekken, SF, and VF **again**.
@spiffythealienАй бұрын
@@spiffythealien And I hope we get a cheesey rock theme for the opening again.
@Sgt-WolfАй бұрын
Generational bias is toxic to every community. Including gaming.
@premiumdude8353Ай бұрын
Listening to messi vs Pele and Jordan vs lebron debates gets boring
@jnw85Ай бұрын
The challenge way back then is just knowing how to get involved in the community. I got super lucky getting a PC in 2000 as Tekkenzaibatsu's forums where a few months old. I fell into it and eventually connected with the right people to travel and start leveling up and getting better. That isn't going to be for everyone nowadays going online is so much more accessible and it's not a bad thing. Tekken tag 1 was a situation where people wanted to share and show off all the cool new tech that was coming out, Max's situation seems different as a 2D player.
@DayFulАй бұрын
Amen bro! In the early 90s, the games ain't showing you stuff - in fact they were hiding moves, some didn't even had move lists, the inputs were harder to execute and you had to grind to figure out the moves and the combos. Now the games are even showing you frame data and stuff, nuff said, I'm happy!
@SalvationTenshiАй бұрын
Well the 90s were 30 years ago. A LOT has changed since then 😂 Arcade-heads are the 30 year old veterans
@kylespevak6781Ай бұрын
Once again maximillion my dude is speaking straight facts from an aging fighting gamer perspective, times are changing compared from way back in the day. Skill set and knowledge basis is just not the same yet at the same incredibly different, makes me wonder what the future holds for the next gen fighting game.
@yoitssorathewandererАй бұрын
Even as (effectively) an '09er, things are so much different now. Yeah, there were like KZhead tutorials and guides and stuff back in '09...but they kinda sucked not going to lie. The level of professional breakdown of how to achieve every last little thing in every game with every character now? It is so wild. I would've KILLED to get my hands on the level of technical information back in the day that you can now get just by typing like, "Cammy SF6 tutorial" into the search bar here on KZhead. Most of the combos I learned for characters in SF IV were just written out notation on a forum somewhere, you all understand that? There was no demonstration in the game, unless you were really lucky there was no demonstration online either! Every tournament, I would just pray one of the gods of the game decided to pick my main so that I could pause, rewind and write down whatever sick shit they did in a three ring binder I kept next to the TV that was just full of stuff that I knew worked. It was SO hard to get good if you were not a tournament monster in the olden times. Also, I think it's pretty undeniable at this point that everyone saving shit for nationals was a big part of why we could never beat Japan back in the day. Each arcade in Japan was like a Dojo and the old ways were not dead yet in the US in the 2000's. Now that everyone shares and shares alike, is Japan full of these like elevated beings that can defeat any American guaranteed? Hell no! Their old advantage was they shared info!
@paxtenebraeАй бұрын
Fighting gamers try not to reminisce about the good old days for five seconds challenge: *difficulty impossible*
@AMediumSizedKodiakАй бұрын
You just had to be there 😭🙏
@SleekGooseАй бұрын
Agreed
@brendongame2543Ай бұрын
That's just every single person over 30.
@-Devy-Ай бұрын
Kappaccino Redditors in a nutshell
@kougamecs3876Ай бұрын
@@SleekGooseI wasn’t even in the fgc before day 1 mvc3. But fk, the era that I did get to witness before esports was amazing. It was like watching WWE as a kid but for gaming. Mainly for sf4 and mvc3 for my perspective.
@FritosTheBean55Ай бұрын
Thank you for once again being the voice of reason, Max. And I 100% agree.
@level3xfactorАй бұрын
Could not have said it better than Max. Very mature and thoughtful perspective. Thank you Max❤
@rockkandyplay5692Ай бұрын
People always pretending like the older games suddenly died. Like bro you can just go back, there's still a bunch of old heads there.
@Dan-Ky-KongАй бұрын
As the size of the audience of whatever it is they’re engaging with (games, movies, etc) gets larger, so too does the likelihood of more and more vocally toxic people showing up. The smaller the community, the more chill it usually is.
@DarthSpiderMarioАй бұрын
Thank you for having this discussion. I feel a lot more willing to follow the FGC and even have much more fun with fighting games. I'm currently trying to learn how to deal with pressure in corners. Thanks Max
@the1trueblue361Ай бұрын
Sometimes max is so damn on point. It's insane. I 100% agree
@Ock_mantisАй бұрын
Hell yeah. This is my diet of content. I love Max's game coverage, but his insight into the player and design dynamics are what I'm here for.
@VelacroixАй бұрын
Going back to the arcade days. It was learning as you played. Bouncing off your skills vs others. Win or lose. Home ports of games gave us tools eventually. But seeing how much has changed over time. It is great no matter who you are, returning or newbie. You have access to a game with so many more options
@kadosho02Ай бұрын
Hell, I can remember when arcade MKI and MKII fatalities were closely guarded secrets and access to them, at least from my experience, was from word of mouth and sometimes that information was either wrong or just untrue. This was before the prevalence of the internet after all. Being as old as I am, and as a fighting game fan, I agree perfectly that we REALLY HAVE IT GOOD RIGHT NOW. Personally, I'm glad current fighting games are so accessible to many because from a business perspective, THAT is what's going to sell these games thereby making the likelihood of new and/or continuing series of games a thing.
@DanteMasaruАй бұрын
This is spot on. Fighting Game knowledge used to be arcane. SF6 and Strive have amazing training modes, and there's so many content creators that want to find anything they can make a video on.
@PrecludeLPАй бұрын
As someone who use to attend tournaments prior to 2008. It was common for only 4 or 5 people to show and you just have to do a round robin tournament. And these would be monthlies. Even worse were arcade tournaments where the entire tournament was ran on 1 or 2 machines (if you’re lucky) with bad sticks. I definitely agree with Max about how good we have it. If you weren’t in NY or Cali or maybe Texas. Good luck leveling up in any game. You maybe could travel to Evo and maybe a top player would play you but it was usually only via money matches. We have it soooooo good now
@MrBranh0913Ай бұрын
I remember learning so much about Melee (and Nintendo characters in general) from the Trophies. We always know every detail about every move now, but it was kinda cool slowly piecing together all the little details whenever I got a new collectible like, "Oh, THAT'S what Jigglypuff's down-B does"!!!
@Despots_Blitz86Ай бұрын
As a 40 year-old man who use to be a quarter dumper until Arcades eventually just closed down: These 2 videos put it all in perspective for me. Thanks! :)
@NecroscatАй бұрын
I wholeheartedly concur my friend! You bring some much needed positivity to the fighting game community.
@EarthsSaviourАй бұрын
the lower barrier to entry is fine. What we want and what is important is the ceiling- tangible rewards for high execution in fighting games during moment to moment within a match
@sinshenlongАй бұрын
What always stuck with me growing up loving fighting games was the quote in the beginning of UMK3 that knowledge is power
@shwn9054Ай бұрын
Max hit so many good points in the 90s knowledge was power in fighting games, now is different that weve turn 360 degrees.
@emilioulloa668229 күн бұрын
Here is the thing. Old school competitive players will be the first to tell you that fighting games have come to a place we never thought it would be. The amount of tools you get from Tekken 8 alone is something I never would have dared to dream. That is why the competition for the game is fiercer than ever before. Everyone has the answer key now. It is all a question of dedication now. This game will show you who you really are inside. I think that's why people complain about rank so much. You cannot cheese your way to victory anymore. You will be stopped eventually. I feel the game will never stop evolving, and that is truly something we have never seen encouraged to such an extent before. New players have no idea how rough we had it back in the day.
@rekora1045Ай бұрын
These are my favorite type of videos of max
@dragonman1579Ай бұрын
Information not only helps new players get better, it also helps the better players understand and streamline what works best. Its similar to basketball now. People knew the three point shot was good and there was a place for it, but with the analytics revolution the game has become either make a 3 or a layup. This simplifies the gameplan for a lot of teams and a lot of strategy. However, the individual skill of the average player in the league is significantly higher than its ever been. This translates to fighting games well. A player in mid/high ranks may seem unskilled in neutral to professional players because they are repeating the same broken moves, but they are simply streamlining their gameplan to what they know is good/what works. This leads to what appears to be repetitive gameplay design when really its just players maximizing their efficiency of what they know is advantageous. To get to the top will still take immense skill and hard work. And to some who experienced more varied gameplay in the past on the couch or in an arcade it will seem repetitive. I think its because the players they are used to bullying now have a basic understanding of frame data/advantage and meta that leads to the trimming of unnecessary/bad moves. That will always exist in the internet age as long as some moves are created with more advantage than others (hint, that is a necessary part of game design). Fighting games are obviously in the best place they have ever been. But its ok for oldheads to reminisce about times they could bully other players. We all reminisce about the good old days.
@bradybimson9106Ай бұрын
On sharing information: back in the day I'd happily share info. Better opponents yield improvement. I'm a super casual and for me, winning was preferred, but exciting matches was where it was at.
@fightingrabbitАй бұрын
Fax I think it's at a good balance between execution and crazy stuff right now if we lean too much toward execution good luck trying to find opponents online.
@earlstevens4099Ай бұрын
Your description of old school fighting games and discovering just ‘what worked’ and what had priority sounds exactly like how I’ve always played them since back then, and pretty much still do now. Even without looking at the frame data, it’s possible to just get a sense of things over time and get a feel for everything. I think frame data and such things generally daunt me, but I like to think it’s not absolutely essential. That’s why I’m also glad when SF6’s tutorials say it as much, that you can still enjoy it without all that! 😁 But for those more technically minded, they can approach fighting games by the numbers as well!
@stefcannon2580Ай бұрын
I agree with you. Losing "the feeling" of a game while "going for the numbers" (=framedata) just isn't for me.
@alessandrobaggi6129Ай бұрын
This is what I do for a while, then I might look up stuff. All that info early on is too much to make sense out of, and the last thing you wanna do with a GAME is study
@kylespevak6781Ай бұрын
I appreciate you mentioning the fight sticks. Back in the day I had to learn how to BUILD a fight stick so I could have decent controls at home.
@GourmetSoulАй бұрын
F to pay respects cause I'm better on pad
@kylespevak6781Ай бұрын
Keep the positivity Max!
@davidhylton7528Ай бұрын
Complaining is EVERYWHERE. You go into any comment section and no matter what someones B$tching. The internet has shown us what we really are.
@TheChaosTheoryАй бұрын
I honestly believe we were never supposed to have access to so many opinions all at once in a matter of seconds. All I hope is that people just enjoy what they enjoy and have a good day.
@Smiles122Ай бұрын
Omg yes the FGC has become such a whining fest its crazy
@danillomdgАй бұрын
I don’t think it’s quite “who we really are” so much as social media rewards and encourages the behavior. I don’t remember the writer but there’s a tweet that goes “I like pancakes.” And the reply is “So you don’t like waffles?” It’s the encapsulation of the problem imo
@nooneofnote8453Ай бұрын
Absolutely. Sometimes just watching good gameplay can help you improve (not make you a pro obviously but still see stuff you're doing wrong).
@HelFrostKaraАй бұрын
The way you describe learning in arcades is how I began learning fighting games coming from a country with a small fgc and at the time having bad English so even the information that existed I couldn't understand. Plus having execution problems due to motor control issues so modern controls are a God sent for me as an accessibility tool.
@iseceepcool2Ай бұрын
I’m happy you made this video Max. You are a major player in the FGC and people listen to you, taking what you’re saying personal about Foghting Games, even when they don’t exactly understand what you’re saying. This isn’t just causal watchers but content creators also. They see your success and want success too so the mimic begins. I’m happy you cleared the air on how you feel about fighting games because I also feel like the companies have blessed us and the new fighters have no clue what we did to get so good.
@SunslifeGURUАй бұрын
its a numbers game, of course theres more good players, the internet is a global stage youre not playing the same ten dudes at the arcade
@RitzScytheАй бұрын
Well said max top tier video
@darkseid9391Ай бұрын
As a long time melee fan, it's been super interesting watching the comminuty go from 5 'gods' that nobody could beat to a point where we have people younger than the game beating players that have been playing for 20+ years due to accessibility of information and access to online play and online communities. The skill ceiling is higher than ever, but more people than ever have the capability to get there
@brodieorr5393Ай бұрын
I think Lord Knight said it best. "Save that shit for nationals." Gatekeeping information seems to have run rampant in those older days which stunts growth significantly.
@thekingofbreakfast2472Ай бұрын
Wow that dvd talk made me feel old. We rented VHS of Japanese players doing sf2 combos just to learn…
@darththewАй бұрын
Just an Old Head spittin’ his truth. “It’s so good right now its INSANE.” Thanks for being the voice of reason amidst the negativity Dood.
@lukedavis3953Ай бұрын
As a brand new fighting game player, online guides totally helped ease my way into the genre. For years the word “cancel” just scared me lmao
@withoutthejuice7193Ай бұрын
The real tragedy is the new talent can't showcase what they are capable of in games that actually have some depth. Unfortunately this generation of players have no reason to play the old games in order to have a well-rounded opinion of them. There are exceptions but I wish there were more. Imagine a world where fighting games built on what foundations were there back in the day instead of developers choosing to water them down over and over to increase casual appeal. Maybe one day we can regain what was lost if companies are willing to take some financial and creative chances. City of the Wolves looks closer to what I would like to see - it utilizes the mechanics and movesets that were there in Garou and adds some new fresh takes on top of it.
@EXPlus512Ай бұрын
I think back to playing Killer Instinct on the SNES, if I wanted to know something I had to use the manual in the box that didn't really give you much. Now with Tekken 8 I go on the community Google doc that has a full breakdown of exactly how my character works. and I can watch a stream of the top in the world playing the character at peak optimization. We've come a long way.
@NocolasLiveАй бұрын
I remember back in the day with SF2 when people were trying to figure out just your standard special moves, if the arcade cab didn't have the movelist on there, the only other way to learn how to do these moves was word of mouth which many people wouldn't share because as Max said, they'd lose their advantage or you had to have the manual from the SNES or Megadrive game
@MrGonz801Ай бұрын
Personally, I'm a newer player. I HATE toxicity and in-fighting within a fandom, so I would (usually) NEVER vocalize this. But given the topic of this video? I must admit that, privately, inside my head, I absolutely hate the way any of the SF2 games handle; they feel incredibly clunky to me, and I cannot fathom why someone would play SF2 instead of a game like SF3. But people are allowed to like what they like and I respect their opinions even if I (heavily) disagree
@juansanchez209Ай бұрын
Vaild, as a new player as well. I think sf2 is neat but games have evolved. It's still the goat but newer games just feel better to flow with. Expect sf3 that game goes crazy
@hugozuniga9089Ай бұрын
@@hugozuniga9089 I personally can't fathom considering SF2 the GOAT. To me, "GOAT" is a ranking where things must be considered objectively in a vacuum. I do not think the year a game was released, its cultural impact, etc., should be considered in GOAT discussions. To me, the GOAT fighting game is this: "Which game is the best in [insert the current year]?" BUT, I absolutely agree that SF2 is the most influential fighting game of all time. I think this isn't even up for discussion and I think that modern fighting games owe A LOT (borderline everything) to SF2
@juansanchez209Ай бұрын
Nobody likes to bring it up but the SF2 games had random damage so you could win or lose based on rng. Old games didn't care about balance or being fair.
@herosshade2247Ай бұрын
@@juansanchez209its the goat cause its the start of fighting games, its a trash game otherwise.
@bigjc5546Ай бұрын
@@bigjc5546 Being influential (SF2 is the most influential fighting game of all time) or the first does NOT make you the GOAT though. The GOAT debate is supposed to be (as close to) objective and in a vacuum
@juansanchez209Ай бұрын
I feel im a new upcoming player so i needed to watch this 💯🙏
@millyyttvАй бұрын
I used to play Street Fighter IV as a kid but I didn't know English so I never understood any tutorials, my friend used special moves to defeat me while I didn't even know they existed, it was maddening.
@slidingcoffee8113Ай бұрын
takes me back to playing MK2 in the arcades while carrying a complete moves and fatality list with me, which I didn't share with anyone else. Also, training mode back then was arcade ladder against the CPU.
@SinultrosАй бұрын
I'm glad I came across your videos Max, watching the other video and this one made me realize how close in tangent Arena Shooters like Quake & Unreal Tourmament are/were to fighters. The issues fighting games have now are the issues fighting games had over a decade ago with games like Unreal Tournament 3 on xbox for example. I know it's wierd to compare the two genres, especially since fighting games cover way more ground, but for the most part, outside of the big 3 fighters (MK, SF, & Tekken.) Fighting games are having the same issues any arena fps does, Holding population for more than a few months. I wonder if there is anything either genre can learn from the other or vice versa.
@PutridRemainsYTАй бұрын
I remember walking into an arcade in OCMD or some other place and saw different fighting games then what I saw in the mall and thought could my time with SF work with these games and somehow it did. Before the internet we had to train a lot on the arcades and read the monthly magazines with the tips and moves then we hit the home systems and that was different but fun. I miss those days a lot and might not be able to join the VR crew for the next step in video game entertainment but I hope to and maybe when I get older VR will have advanced enough that after a hard day of working I can lay down and log into my own world that would be cool.
@BJI82aАй бұрын
You are speaking the truth brother. I struggled to find better players during the arcade days. I remember buying a Street Fighter Alpha combo book for a one-up over everyone in my area.
@BriantDavis78Ай бұрын
The internet along with KZhead etc has definitely allowed it to be easier with finding new tricks and tactics for games. I remember back in the day playing Smash Bros Melee and figuring out how to grab items in the air before any of my friends did and kept it to myself for a while haha.
@renslo689Ай бұрын
The people that say "you wouldn't be able to be as good in this ancient ass game", who says I wouldn't? If I feel like putting time into it, I could get as good as the veterans. I just don't care about getting good at games that have little to no relevance nowadays, it's a waste of time.
@radicalcentrist4990Ай бұрын
😂😂 Keep telling yourself you'd be just as good at a higher skill floor and skill ceiling. That's the spirit..
@justlloyd7881Ай бұрын
@@justlloyd7881 I'd even break the ceiling
@radicalcentrist4990Ай бұрын
Oh my god, I never knew Dan had a Ryo skin that’s amazing😂
@Someguyonline246 күн бұрын
I'm 45, been playing fighting games for years. It's definitely better now but I do miss the arcade days and getting good with a cost of a couple of quarters or tokens and a fighting strategy guide. And getting known as a good player in your mall and etc.😊
@fullmetallion7810Ай бұрын
In Mexico we had arcade machines with KOF 2002 and if you knew how to consistently do special moves you basically won. It also felt like a special event when the one kid who knew how to do the k9999 ultra arm special would come by. He never told us how, so now as an adult when I was able to look it up and actually execute it on an emulator, it was cathartic!
@crazycubanjrАй бұрын
Oh the convenience of having a training mode in fighting games nowadays..i was fortunate to live through this back in the ps era because older arcade games were ported to consoles. So i can understand the frustration AND dedication it must have been to get good fast in the acrades.
@gido0471Ай бұрын
Classic max being the voice of reason
@juggbot4572Ай бұрын
I use to play the arcade Tekken 2 and remember waiting every week at exact 3 pm on Tuesdays when the machine unlocked a new character, and I had to just try moves to see what could be done, no internet at that time, now you just check your phone and there it is a list of everything.
@RyuShinkuuHadokenАй бұрын
Love these explanations. I'm not even a fighting game player. I just like listening to this big dork talk about it lol
@JABO95SAАй бұрын
"Training mode" in the 90's was having the home version of the game, two controllers and friend who was willing to do the same move over and over while you get used to how to deal with it. Today, you just pick training in the main menu, select CPU behavior and learn. All while having all the frame data onscreen.
@joshdillon9637Ай бұрын
Thanks, Max! 🙌
@rafaellechugoАй бұрын
Ah the old days of traveling around to different arcades in late 90's and early 2000's for competition."Have quarters, will travel" 😁
@hunterellis8986Ай бұрын
I agree with the information thing most of all. I’ve loved mortal kombat my whole life but didn’t really “know” how to play until MK9
@bryanwladkowski1236Ай бұрын
Really great Video Max. Still can't beat the Arcade n SNES Days, absolutely loved that time but yh at the mo with SF6 and Tekken 8 especially Fighting Games are in a great place.
@johnodaz1273Ай бұрын
A rising tide lifts all boats
@adamdonnelly6470Ай бұрын
"We didn't have information" Yep, that's it.
@argosfe7445Ай бұрын
4:47 there's a great quote from a OG Uncle that once said, "Save that SH*T for national!"
@okishop3477Ай бұрын
Not only is information more accessible, but you can play sooooo much more. Like the amount of matches you can play in an hour is so much higher thanks to better online, better lobbies. I can play people from coast to coast with TWO FRAMES OF ROLLBACK. not even delay. rollback. the netcode getting so much better is also a massive benefit
@zeywopАй бұрын
I remember growing up and spending just about half a year finding people to play guilty gear with. I would travel to events and conventions in order to even have a handful of people to even play the game with. Now today I literally just logged on and was able to play someone. This was something I absolutely wished for when i was growing up.
@webweaver13s29 күн бұрын
Despite GameFAQs existing when I was 14 and growing my interest in fighting games, I was more interested in discovery. I also spent most of my time playing the single player modes. These days, when I pick up a new fighting game, before going online, I'd rush to KZhead for a quick tutorial on my character's plan in neutral. It just nullifies a huge barrier of entry into each game. It allows me to get into actual mind games with worthy opponents quickly instead of wondering what is it that I don't understand about a specific game's neutral design.
@Shining4DawnАй бұрын
Spending quarters at available arcades back in the day was practice mode, then their was bringing a friend with you to basically discipline for behaviors worthy of a ass whooping was before consoles a time to enjoy. Nowadays my kid just gets me brought down by his generation of mk’s, and tekken. When street fighter six came, we were both excited. Bout to hit 50 in June and lookin back, gaming has come a very far leaps and bounds journey and I’m humbled to have been around to see it flourish
@dannyleo5787Ай бұрын
I'm 35, I played Smash Melee for thousands of hours before the KZhead era, without ever thinking about looking for tournaments around the globe, I had my small group of people playing. I remember the absolute shock I had the first time I saw a match between actual pro players, with all their advanced movement tech that made the game look completely different. Nowadays that feeling is impossible to replicate, because information is that much easier to get.
@rospohoАй бұрын
the fighting game community is growing fast. Competition is getting harder and faster.
@DoritoJetАй бұрын
7:45 As a noob to Tekken, i can confirm people in Yellow ranks are blocking lows, canceling grabs, and reading my moves. Watched "top level gameplay" of my characters and it looked exactly how i play, just cleaner because they have more experience. Reminds me of when i started parkour and the skill ceiling was embarrassingly low. Ended up getting world's firsts under my belt before i ended my career
@kylespevak6781Ай бұрын
Max was almost about to turn into the Hulk for a moment there.
Tekken 8 has an entire replay system where you can RE-LIVE YOUR L's in REAL TIME, and the GAME EXPLAINS TO YOU HOW TO WIN...some games back then didn't even have training mode.
The replay system doesn't work 90% of the time, and when it does it just says things like "Shoulda broken that throw lol"
@@Sharkofspace finally someone saying this
@@Sharkofspace practice your throw breaks bro wym
@@agni2051 What does that have to do with anything? My point is that replays don't actually tell you how to beat most things, and when they do, it's generic "Simply win the match" type advice that doesn't help you.
@@Sharkofspace "last hit in the string can be ducked and punished" "This hit is launch punishable" They literally tell you how to beat lots of things wym
People want to discredit people who win no matter what.
It’s simply because they can’t fathom people using their brain and not running into their shit
If you are a pro player thats great, if you are not thats just stupid.
Or they believe old best pros should be the best in newer games too, otherwise the game is wrong.
DSP and LTG lol
@@helivega299i think in most dituations thats not okay
Off topic but my dad tells me stories all the time of him spending hours and hours at the arcade playing street fighter . As young as I can remember I was introduced to street fighter and would play all night with my dad . Finding this channel reminds me so much of my dad and I just wanted to thank you for your dedication into these videos and keeping the fighting game community alive.
It was a different time, and scene. I too played SF and many more at arcades. The interaction, and watching two people play different characters, and seeing what they do. Win or lose. It was intense, and also fun. We have come such a long way since those days. But those memories last a lifetime.
Here comes the actual grownup to clear things up for the FGC once again
As a 1990s gamer, let me say that Max isn’t wrong!
Back in the Arcade days, you could only wonder "How did he do that?!" and never have the answer, because: 1) You never wanted to look bad or 'weak' so you never actually asked; but 2) If you DID ask, chances are the guy you're fighting against won't tell you, or will give you a half answer at best. Fighting game players in the 90s were absolutely secretive about combos or 'tips and tricks'. They would almost never share moves or "secrets". In fact, they would go as far as _lying_ that you just need to do "this and that" and then you try it yourself and it doesn't work, and you think at first you're just too bad to do it like he told you to; when in reality he's just setting you in the wrong direction from the start. They were deceptive, lying or secretive (or a bit of all of that mixed up together). I can recall as far back as MK2, players at the Arcades lied about so much shit that it created rumors up the wazoo, enough that we talked about said supposed things that apparently were in the game in our classrooms and had debates about whether or not it was true. I myself noticed it live as I played the original Killer Instinct at Arcades, I had to figure out moves by either: 1) Pure chance (and remembering it if it ended up being a combo) or 2) Silently observing others playing and looking at their button presses and stick directions and memorizing it as best as I could. It took me until late in 1995, or early 1996 when I finally saw that famous Killer Instinct 'bible' (guide) magazine released around the same time as the SNES version came out, where I FINALLY got access to information, about combos, how to start them, how long they're supposed to be, what are the combo breakers, etc. About 90% of the information contained in the guide was completely unknown at the Arcades. Back then you'd go to Arcades, play games for as long as you're willing to hold on to your pennies, and leave after maybe 2 hours max. In that time you maybe had the chance to play a couple of matches of your favorite Fighting games, and then you went back home and you'd forget about most of the moves you did (or you'd forget about the NEW moves you might have found that day). Gaming magazines, and gaming guides (mostly guides) were our source of information at the time, we had no other reliable sources unless we had actual friends willing to share their own 'moves' with X, Y and Z characters in our favorite games (which wasn't even guaranteed). So yeah, Old School fighting games players had it rough back then, but we went along, it was our time. I can only realize it more in modern times since it changed so much. Nowadays you can have access to all sorts of guides and videos and just the Internet in general to help. Not to mention that in-game Practice modes today in most fighting games are AMAZING at teaching players how to play. We did NOT have such Practice modes back then as say... what you can find in SF6 nowadays, it's completely different. By the way, this does not remove anything from 'being good today' Vs 'being good back then'. If you were good back then, you were good; as much as if you're good today... then yeah, you're good. But back then you were VERY respected because people would be wondering "how the F_ did he get that good?!", VS today maybe the phrase would change for "how LONG have you been grinding this shit?!".
You spoke for me. Thank you!
Excellent explanation! And Max was right about the feel. Just playing with a character and figuring out what worked and dominated the competition. It felt like a race to the top of the mountain and then when you got good, you sought out another "mountain" to climb. Crazy how times have changed...
I remember playing Killer Instinct and MK2 in arcade and eventually at a friend's house on snes. People lied to you about moves, combos, fatalities all the time. They made it seem way more complex than what it was. I found Kano's fatality on mk1 on accident by trying to see if he can do a hadouken. Once I knew it, I fell to the Dark side and lied to anyone who asked me.
Nailed it dude! It’s a how the f? vs how long you grind? debate and they’re both impressive in thier own ways but more credit goes to how the f of back in the day. Today you could get good by not having obligations, lots of spare time, and lots of dedication. Back then it didn’t matter how much money or time you had you either learned the game by some archaic means and had the execution or you didn’t.
I never got WAY into fighting games. But I LOVED KI 2 in the arcade when I was a kid. I played it a ton. One guy I'd see from time to time was super good at the game. I asked him for tips, and he recommended a *book* which me and my mom went to the bookstore in the mall and ordered. Yes, a book with moves, combos etc for KI 2 in ~1997-98. Edit: Wow just found it on google, "Killer Instinct 2 Unauthorized Arcade Secrets" published May 1996 (according to Amazon).
Newman: Because when you control the mail, you control..INFORMATION!
Omg yes! I have no idea why you thought to quote the best mailman/Jurassic park mvp (let the Dino’s out yo) line ever, but thank you. Made my day. Love Wayne Knight so much
Jerry: NEWMAN!
Information is Power. I was 5 in 2000 my first fighting games were smash bros and Melee. There were things MY BEST FRIENDS knew and never shared with me. This honestly turned me away from fighting games for decades. And then in 2018 I found Max’s channel and gave fighting games a shot a again and now I’m playing them all the time. Once the information was available on KZhead things became easier to understand and play.
Naw power is power and information is information. Both can coexist together sometimes. You can know all the information about the game but if you ain’t moving those sticks or pads then that information is useless. Gotta put the power into the information.
@@30ajgo No duh... What you are describing is like knowing all the rules to baseball is different from swinging a bat. Your comment is completely missing the point of what I was even saying and honestly total nonsense ... "information is power" is a very common phrase. Power isn't a literal thing like inputs, it's knowing something your opponent does not know. If I know how to throw fireballs and dragon punch and all you know is punch, kick and jump. I am going to beat you every time.
@@TheAndrewJohnBennett First you say “no duh” then you say it’s nonsense? Make up your mind cause I can tell you that “common phrase” is the real nonsense. Sure you have the information to do fireballs and dragon punch, but power is the force and effort to actually execute that move. Plus the difference in power and information is more like knowing a punch is coming and having the ability to stop it. Those are two different things and should always be.
Bro thst happened to me with Melee. I remember folks talking about weight dash between them and they never shared with me that info until years later. It sucked
@@30ajgoexactly. Knowledge doesn’t always mean execution. It can be the reason why a number of pro players aren’t the best at teaching or coaching.
People tend to overlook how massive and influential wikipedia and the following wiki revolution was to history in general. There is suddenly a free, easily accessible database that contains any piece of information you could possibly want. People from around the world now could talk to each other and share their knowledge simply because they wanted to. It legitimately destabilized the academic world because information is no longer exclusively found in overpriced books and distributed by professors trained to teach a specific way. Fighting games have the same story, including the pushback by the older generations who can't fathom the modern world and consider looking up information at any time "cheating."
Hell, back in the day I used to pick up strategy guides for fighting games because the training modes didn't really teach you combat routes. I don't think a single training mode in the PS2/XBOX/GCUBE era even had combo challenges to help you understand how things worked.
Anybody can edit Wikipedia. If you get your education from wiki... you're not educated
@@originalscreenname44 Mortal Kombat 3D era did, Both Deadly Alliance and Deception had character tutorials.
Dude my teachers forbade me from using the website as a reliable source for info. Geee, i wonder the fuck why???
@@soldier257 Yeah I was really lucky in that even as I got to high school my teachers (the good ones anyway) starting moving from "Wikipedia is unreliable" to "Wikipedia's a good place to start and get an overall working understanding, but if you want cite-able stuff check out the references on the Wikipedia page."
Information is why the Speedrun community is so chill You always share everything, even a new trick you just discovered, or maybe wait a week or two The important part is to keep it fair so everybody has the same tools and it's just a matter of skill
funny how the community is so chill yet speedrunning can be so frustrating at times
@@hacksmashit's always 'bout that 1 FRAME
@@Gamber63 and RNG
I'm 38 years old, I 100% agree with Max here, it's not that the games got easier, which they arguably did, but it's the fact that information isn't gate kept and the learning tools have increased. I sucked at alpha, SF 2, and SF3. But 4 is when the fighting game information age really blossomed. Suddenly I'm the top 20 Guy on sf4, I hit master in sf5 and I usually float around the 1700s MR wise in sf6 after hitting master a month after I bought the game. This is because RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE. I'm sure if we had the same resources and availability back then as we do now, the landscape of legends would be far more expansive.
True but the real point ia the games are easy fuck all that information is available shit games are easier not just fighting games all games
@MrTD714 and point is if the same ease of requiring information was available then as it is now would those games really be "harder"? Imagine being able to long into windows 95, signing into AOL, and going onto a fighting game website and being able to watch high quality guides on street fighter alpha 2. Imagine alpha two having a training mode and was update to be 1 :1 with the arcade release. Do you really think it would still be Alex Valle and daigo At the top? It could be but the dynamic changes when everyone has the same information and near levels of competition. Furthermore, Remember, back in the arcade days the machines goal was to take your money so difficulty was ramped up to make you spend your quarters. So the incentive to withhold information was higher. Single player game were harder because of that. Multilayer games were harder by people not wanting to lose.
@@geoffreytasker2097Don't waste time you're never going to convince a guy like that he'll just come online and complain. Guys like him don't like games getting "easier" because "normal" people is invading his nerd space that's the only place these people can feel strong because in real life there weak, not just him but all the bitching online about things getting easier is because of what I stated before. SF6 is easier execution but so much to think about compared to the old games, di, Dr, parry, perfect parry, you have to waste meter to wake up dragon piunch, the older games was simpler in terms of gameplay. Imagine if we had no information to discuss online like back in the day for SF6 I can guarantee that there won't be as much masters. Gamers online hate everything it must suck to live like that.
@@geoffreytasker2097Even with all the information available, the older games were still harder. Implementing the knowledge you have would be harder due to the older games having harder execution and reduced input buffer windows.
@@SuperJJParker I said information AND learning tools. if older games had Information, training modes and at home 1:1 ports, none of that which you mentioned would matter because the ability to practice would be easily available to everyone. its like like watching some one speed run elden ring or get all perfects in a rhythm game . the person played enough to learn the timings. its not that the game got any easier, They got better. I'm sure if someone went back and played those older games about put as much effort into them as they do the newer games, with the technology and information available today, they would become just as proficient.
It's funny because the last few years, to me, have felt like the only time where I genuinely can actually even freaking _play_ fighting games. Not only do fighting games actually have good online now, making it way easier to play them against more kinds of people. But now if I wanna learn a character I can very easily find multiple character guides on youtube for literally any game out there, and if they talk about weird obscure mechanics I've never heard before, I can also look them up. If I run into a weird character/playstyle and it seems completely unbeatable, I can google my problem and find a solution. If I have a weird misunderstanding about the very specific way a mechanic works and see an unexpected result (something as simple as a grab missing right next to my opponent and having no idea why) I can google the issue and immediately clear it up. Fighting games felt utterly impossible to get into as a kid/teen. I had literally none of these tools and there wasn't really any way to get started unless you literally just wanted to fool around with friends for a single afternoon. Today there's so much information and so much people playing them publicly that it's actually really easy to get started even on the older, more difficult games that felt impossible back then.
At the end of the day, you aren’t the chosen one if you’re the only one given the scrolls of power, you just a dragon hoarding, awaiting the day those determined enough to slay and bring the wealth to the village.
My man on that dragons dogma 2 za
@@XDapologist *Takes a big fat rip on that Za* Block this mix, Arisen.
*distressed Smaug noises*
If you grew up during the arcade era, there was always some random mofo that went on the weekends that was so cracked at a specific game people gather around them to see them destroy the game, be it DDR, air hockey, beat em ups or in this case a fighting game. Every single arcade even in the same area had their top players with their “unique” tricks. If you lived in a small town it was even funnier but you could hear about players from other arcades as if they were secret bosses of a game “omg this dude on the other side of town plays Zangief and he destroys everyone”. Then when timed passed you realize most of the time it was just a case of big fish in small pond kind of situation. They were only as good as their competition allowed them.
Yup. When you said DDR you took me right back to the arcade. I remember there was this one skinny black dude who must have been like 16 or something when I was 12. He was playing the legend of Maxx on expert and it was blowing my mind beyond comprehension because I was still at the level where I was playing freckles on medium. I was so impressed. Actually you just reminded me while I was talking about it. I remember this white dude with long hair and glasses trying to get a AAA score on freckles on expert and I remember he screwed up somewhere towards the end of the song and he slammed his fist on the machine (not the screen thank goodness) and I remember being weirded out by it.
Yep, it's mostly access to information and higher level competition online that is the biggest game changer. Street Fighter 2 was the first ever fighting game I played. Gaming since 1993 but only casual, never joined tournaments. Used to play in the Arcades on weekends. And I'm basically unbeatable when we play fighting games during family gatherings. 😂
This is why I love Max. He always takes a step back and analyze these topics as a whole and with logic.
For real Max is such a great voice of reason in so many situations
I'm a vet from Tekken 1 and Street Fighter 1. I was there where most fighting games started. I can adapt to modern games just fine. Same for any other game really. "It's not better because it's not the same" is terrible mentality, and "It's amazing because I played it as a child" is even worse. A silly video game character once said "Memories are nice, but that's all they are." and they were right. That's literally it, detach your memories from the games, and you'll see how garbage it's always been. You just didn't have anything better at the time, or you just liked it because you were a silly kid and had literally zero standards, just like me, a guy who liked fucking Bubsy before he discovered Sonic and learned the harsh reality early. That was literally a month later. People who refuse to adapt to new games are just that, people stuck with "I have memories with Bubsy therefore Bubsy is the best game ever" and refusing to move past it. Move past it. It's ok. Your memories will remain. But the quality of the game has nothing to do with that. Tekken 8 is a great game and the right way to go for the series, as is Street Fighter 6. They both have their issues, but they can be fixed with updates. The way they are now, MTX aside, they're both great games. Sincerely, an old fart.
This guy gets it
I was there from SF2, MK, Tekken 2. I can say my biggest barriers to getting good was consistent access to an arcade and lack of money. My parents weren’t letting me blow $20 at the arcade every week like a lot of good players were. I didn’t get good at SF2 until it reached the consoles, but it’s not a perfect translation execution with a joystick. When I finally had a job and made my own money I still didn’t make enough to compete, but the guys at my local arcade were welcoming enough to give me tips on MvC2. I still remember them cheering when I finally connected my first air combo 😂
Bubsy was solid but yeah sonic killed that shit😂😂. I still go back and watch bubsy play through on KZhead lol
BUBSY WAS ANYTHING BUT SOLID 😂 =)
_-"Why, when I was your age, we ate wood and rocks!"_
"And we had to share the rocks"
So, here we are ... Having NBA like era players discussion for the FGC, Man it's insane how people no matter what's the topic, it always comes down to the same old conversations LOL But that tells you how I'm so out of this FGC Pro Player twitter self contained cognitive bubble cause if it wasn't for Max talking about it, I would have never known what were the "issues" with this current generation of Fighting games, I just enjoy it, it's just a new set of rules you have to learn.
I mean removing dribbling from basketball is a pretty serious change. why wouldnt you discuss it
Exactly. I'm 45 and I don't know about said "problems with fighting games today" stuff. I don't care about esports or competition today as I used to a few years ago. Losing, winning doesn't mean anything to me, I just play to get some enjoyment out of it, nothing else. I stop having fun? I move on and do something else instead.
Agreed. Not only is the barrier of execution lowered, but now you have accessibility to learn the best stuff. There are no secrets. So with all the information being available online, of course there's gonna be a lot more good players.
Also, being protective of information was a function of protecting the cost of your money you sink into the arcade cabinet in those times.
This
Gatekeeping competition like how Max describes is actually something that was holding the FGC back for so long. The ego-driven fear that makes you not share tech, means that you're not exposing a weakness; true, but you will never be properly challenged or have to grow yourself to become better. Limitations on player pool will always result in stagnation, but I'm glad that technology has helped overcome that barrier for so many. And it's also why I think Mena_RD is such a beast right now. He'll play anywhere, and everywhere. Yeah, you can say that priviledge on him for being able to afford it, but it's also him exposing and sharing many other communities, and learning from them. It's a give and take, and it really does help us grow as a whole.
_Transcending History_ _A Tale of _*_Fighters_*_ and _*_Complaints_* _Eternally Retold._
I can only hope Soulcalibur VII repeats 1999 and comes to outshine Tekken, SF, and VF **again**.
@@spiffythealien And I hope we get a cheesey rock theme for the opening again.
Generational bias is toxic to every community. Including gaming.
Listening to messi vs Pele and Jordan vs lebron debates gets boring
The challenge way back then is just knowing how to get involved in the community. I got super lucky getting a PC in 2000 as Tekkenzaibatsu's forums where a few months old. I fell into it and eventually connected with the right people to travel and start leveling up and getting better. That isn't going to be for everyone nowadays going online is so much more accessible and it's not a bad thing. Tekken tag 1 was a situation where people wanted to share and show off all the cool new tech that was coming out, Max's situation seems different as a 2D player.
Amen bro! In the early 90s, the games ain't showing you stuff - in fact they were hiding moves, some didn't even had move lists, the inputs were harder to execute and you had to grind to figure out the moves and the combos. Now the games are even showing you frame data and stuff, nuff said, I'm happy!
Well the 90s were 30 years ago. A LOT has changed since then 😂 Arcade-heads are the 30 year old veterans
Once again maximillion my dude is speaking straight facts from an aging fighting gamer perspective, times are changing compared from way back in the day. Skill set and knowledge basis is just not the same yet at the same incredibly different, makes me wonder what the future holds for the next gen fighting game.
Even as (effectively) an '09er, things are so much different now. Yeah, there were like KZhead tutorials and guides and stuff back in '09...but they kinda sucked not going to lie. The level of professional breakdown of how to achieve every last little thing in every game with every character now? It is so wild. I would've KILLED to get my hands on the level of technical information back in the day that you can now get just by typing like, "Cammy SF6 tutorial" into the search bar here on KZhead. Most of the combos I learned for characters in SF IV were just written out notation on a forum somewhere, you all understand that? There was no demonstration in the game, unless you were really lucky there was no demonstration online either! Every tournament, I would just pray one of the gods of the game decided to pick my main so that I could pause, rewind and write down whatever sick shit they did in a three ring binder I kept next to the TV that was just full of stuff that I knew worked. It was SO hard to get good if you were not a tournament monster in the olden times. Also, I think it's pretty undeniable at this point that everyone saving shit for nationals was a big part of why we could never beat Japan back in the day. Each arcade in Japan was like a Dojo and the old ways were not dead yet in the US in the 2000's. Now that everyone shares and shares alike, is Japan full of these like elevated beings that can defeat any American guaranteed? Hell no! Their old advantage was they shared info!
Fighting gamers try not to reminisce about the good old days for five seconds challenge: *difficulty impossible*
You just had to be there 😭🙏
Agreed
That's just every single person over 30.
Kappaccino Redditors in a nutshell
@@SleekGooseI wasn’t even in the fgc before day 1 mvc3. But fk, the era that I did get to witness before esports was amazing. It was like watching WWE as a kid but for gaming. Mainly for sf4 and mvc3 for my perspective.
Thank you for once again being the voice of reason, Max. And I 100% agree.
Could not have said it better than Max. Very mature and thoughtful perspective. Thank you Max❤
People always pretending like the older games suddenly died. Like bro you can just go back, there's still a bunch of old heads there.
As the size of the audience of whatever it is they’re engaging with (games, movies, etc) gets larger, so too does the likelihood of more and more vocally toxic people showing up. The smaller the community, the more chill it usually is.
Thank you for having this discussion. I feel a lot more willing to follow the FGC and even have much more fun with fighting games. I'm currently trying to learn how to deal with pressure in corners. Thanks Max
Sometimes max is so damn on point. It's insane. I 100% agree
Hell yeah. This is my diet of content. I love Max's game coverage, but his insight into the player and design dynamics are what I'm here for.
Going back to the arcade days. It was learning as you played. Bouncing off your skills vs others. Win or lose. Home ports of games gave us tools eventually. But seeing how much has changed over time. It is great no matter who you are, returning or newbie. You have access to a game with so many more options
Hell, I can remember when arcade MKI and MKII fatalities were closely guarded secrets and access to them, at least from my experience, was from word of mouth and sometimes that information was either wrong or just untrue. This was before the prevalence of the internet after all. Being as old as I am, and as a fighting game fan, I agree perfectly that we REALLY HAVE IT GOOD RIGHT NOW. Personally, I'm glad current fighting games are so accessible to many because from a business perspective, THAT is what's going to sell these games thereby making the likelihood of new and/or continuing series of games a thing.
This is spot on. Fighting Game knowledge used to be arcane. SF6 and Strive have amazing training modes, and there's so many content creators that want to find anything they can make a video on.
As someone who use to attend tournaments prior to 2008. It was common for only 4 or 5 people to show and you just have to do a round robin tournament. And these would be monthlies. Even worse were arcade tournaments where the entire tournament was ran on 1 or 2 machines (if you’re lucky) with bad sticks. I definitely agree with Max about how good we have it. If you weren’t in NY or Cali or maybe Texas. Good luck leveling up in any game. You maybe could travel to Evo and maybe a top player would play you but it was usually only via money matches. We have it soooooo good now
I remember learning so much about Melee (and Nintendo characters in general) from the Trophies. We always know every detail about every move now, but it was kinda cool slowly piecing together all the little details whenever I got a new collectible like, "Oh, THAT'S what Jigglypuff's down-B does"!!!
As a 40 year-old man who use to be a quarter dumper until Arcades eventually just closed down: These 2 videos put it all in perspective for me. Thanks! :)
I wholeheartedly concur my friend! You bring some much needed positivity to the fighting game community.
the lower barrier to entry is fine. What we want and what is important is the ceiling- tangible rewards for high execution in fighting games during moment to moment within a match
What always stuck with me growing up loving fighting games was the quote in the beginning of UMK3 that knowledge is power
Max hit so many good points in the 90s knowledge was power in fighting games, now is different that weve turn 360 degrees.
Here is the thing. Old school competitive players will be the first to tell you that fighting games have come to a place we never thought it would be. The amount of tools you get from Tekken 8 alone is something I never would have dared to dream. That is why the competition for the game is fiercer than ever before. Everyone has the answer key now. It is all a question of dedication now. This game will show you who you really are inside. I think that's why people complain about rank so much. You cannot cheese your way to victory anymore. You will be stopped eventually. I feel the game will never stop evolving, and that is truly something we have never seen encouraged to such an extent before. New players have no idea how rough we had it back in the day.
These are my favorite type of videos of max
Information not only helps new players get better, it also helps the better players understand and streamline what works best. Its similar to basketball now. People knew the three point shot was good and there was a place for it, but with the analytics revolution the game has become either make a 3 or a layup. This simplifies the gameplan for a lot of teams and a lot of strategy. However, the individual skill of the average player in the league is significantly higher than its ever been. This translates to fighting games well. A player in mid/high ranks may seem unskilled in neutral to professional players because they are repeating the same broken moves, but they are simply streamlining their gameplan to what they know is good/what works. This leads to what appears to be repetitive gameplay design when really its just players maximizing their efficiency of what they know is advantageous. To get to the top will still take immense skill and hard work. And to some who experienced more varied gameplay in the past on the couch or in an arcade it will seem repetitive. I think its because the players they are used to bullying now have a basic understanding of frame data/advantage and meta that leads to the trimming of unnecessary/bad moves. That will always exist in the internet age as long as some moves are created with more advantage than others (hint, that is a necessary part of game design). Fighting games are obviously in the best place they have ever been. But its ok for oldheads to reminisce about times they could bully other players. We all reminisce about the good old days.
On sharing information: back in the day I'd happily share info. Better opponents yield improvement. I'm a super casual and for me, winning was preferred, but exciting matches was where it was at.
Fax I think it's at a good balance between execution and crazy stuff right now if we lean too much toward execution good luck trying to find opponents online.
Your description of old school fighting games and discovering just ‘what worked’ and what had priority sounds exactly like how I’ve always played them since back then, and pretty much still do now. Even without looking at the frame data, it’s possible to just get a sense of things over time and get a feel for everything. I think frame data and such things generally daunt me, but I like to think it’s not absolutely essential. That’s why I’m also glad when SF6’s tutorials say it as much, that you can still enjoy it without all that! 😁 But for those more technically minded, they can approach fighting games by the numbers as well!
I agree with you. Losing "the feeling" of a game while "going for the numbers" (=framedata) just isn't for me.
This is what I do for a while, then I might look up stuff. All that info early on is too much to make sense out of, and the last thing you wanna do with a GAME is study
I appreciate you mentioning the fight sticks. Back in the day I had to learn how to BUILD a fight stick so I could have decent controls at home.
F to pay respects cause I'm better on pad
Keep the positivity Max!
Complaining is EVERYWHERE. You go into any comment section and no matter what someones B$tching. The internet has shown us what we really are.
I honestly believe we were never supposed to have access to so many opinions all at once in a matter of seconds. All I hope is that people just enjoy what they enjoy and have a good day.
Omg yes the FGC has become such a whining fest its crazy
I don’t think it’s quite “who we really are” so much as social media rewards and encourages the behavior. I don’t remember the writer but there’s a tweet that goes “I like pancakes.” And the reply is “So you don’t like waffles?” It’s the encapsulation of the problem imo
Absolutely. Sometimes just watching good gameplay can help you improve (not make you a pro obviously but still see stuff you're doing wrong).
The way you describe learning in arcades is how I began learning fighting games coming from a country with a small fgc and at the time having bad English so even the information that existed I couldn't understand. Plus having execution problems due to motor control issues so modern controls are a God sent for me as an accessibility tool.
I’m happy you made this video Max. You are a major player in the FGC and people listen to you, taking what you’re saying personal about Foghting Games, even when they don’t exactly understand what you’re saying. This isn’t just causal watchers but content creators also. They see your success and want success too so the mimic begins. I’m happy you cleared the air on how you feel about fighting games because I also feel like the companies have blessed us and the new fighters have no clue what we did to get so good.
its a numbers game, of course theres more good players, the internet is a global stage youre not playing the same ten dudes at the arcade
Well said max top tier video
As a long time melee fan, it's been super interesting watching the comminuty go from 5 'gods' that nobody could beat to a point where we have people younger than the game beating players that have been playing for 20+ years due to accessibility of information and access to online play and online communities. The skill ceiling is higher than ever, but more people than ever have the capability to get there
I think Lord Knight said it best. "Save that shit for nationals." Gatekeeping information seems to have run rampant in those older days which stunts growth significantly.
Wow that dvd talk made me feel old. We rented VHS of Japanese players doing sf2 combos just to learn…
Just an Old Head spittin’ his truth. “It’s so good right now its INSANE.” Thanks for being the voice of reason amidst the negativity Dood.
As a brand new fighting game player, online guides totally helped ease my way into the genre. For years the word “cancel” just scared me lmao
The real tragedy is the new talent can't showcase what they are capable of in games that actually have some depth. Unfortunately this generation of players have no reason to play the old games in order to have a well-rounded opinion of them. There are exceptions but I wish there were more. Imagine a world where fighting games built on what foundations were there back in the day instead of developers choosing to water them down over and over to increase casual appeal. Maybe one day we can regain what was lost if companies are willing to take some financial and creative chances. City of the Wolves looks closer to what I would like to see - it utilizes the mechanics and movesets that were there in Garou and adds some new fresh takes on top of it.
I think back to playing Killer Instinct on the SNES, if I wanted to know something I had to use the manual in the box that didn't really give you much. Now with Tekken 8 I go on the community Google doc that has a full breakdown of exactly how my character works. and I can watch a stream of the top in the world playing the character at peak optimization. We've come a long way.
I remember back in the day with SF2 when people were trying to figure out just your standard special moves, if the arcade cab didn't have the movelist on there, the only other way to learn how to do these moves was word of mouth which many people wouldn't share because as Max said, they'd lose their advantage or you had to have the manual from the SNES or Megadrive game
Personally, I'm a newer player. I HATE toxicity and in-fighting within a fandom, so I would (usually) NEVER vocalize this. But given the topic of this video? I must admit that, privately, inside my head, I absolutely hate the way any of the SF2 games handle; they feel incredibly clunky to me, and I cannot fathom why someone would play SF2 instead of a game like SF3. But people are allowed to like what they like and I respect their opinions even if I (heavily) disagree
Vaild, as a new player as well. I think sf2 is neat but games have evolved. It's still the goat but newer games just feel better to flow with. Expect sf3 that game goes crazy
@@hugozuniga9089 I personally can't fathom considering SF2 the GOAT. To me, "GOAT" is a ranking where things must be considered objectively in a vacuum. I do not think the year a game was released, its cultural impact, etc., should be considered in GOAT discussions. To me, the GOAT fighting game is this: "Which game is the best in [insert the current year]?" BUT, I absolutely agree that SF2 is the most influential fighting game of all time. I think this isn't even up for discussion and I think that modern fighting games owe A LOT (borderline everything) to SF2
Nobody likes to bring it up but the SF2 games had random damage so you could win or lose based on rng. Old games didn't care about balance or being fair.
@@juansanchez209its the goat cause its the start of fighting games, its a trash game otherwise.
@@bigjc5546 Being influential (SF2 is the most influential fighting game of all time) or the first does NOT make you the GOAT though. The GOAT debate is supposed to be (as close to) objective and in a vacuum
I feel im a new upcoming player so i needed to watch this 💯🙏
I used to play Street Fighter IV as a kid but I didn't know English so I never understood any tutorials, my friend used special moves to defeat me while I didn't even know they existed, it was maddening.
takes me back to playing MK2 in the arcades while carrying a complete moves and fatality list with me, which I didn't share with anyone else. Also, training mode back then was arcade ladder against the CPU.
I'm glad I came across your videos Max, watching the other video and this one made me realize how close in tangent Arena Shooters like Quake & Unreal Tourmament are/were to fighters. The issues fighting games have now are the issues fighting games had over a decade ago with games like Unreal Tournament 3 on xbox for example. I know it's wierd to compare the two genres, especially since fighting games cover way more ground, but for the most part, outside of the big 3 fighters (MK, SF, & Tekken.) Fighting games are having the same issues any arena fps does, Holding population for more than a few months. I wonder if there is anything either genre can learn from the other or vice versa.
I remember walking into an arcade in OCMD or some other place and saw different fighting games then what I saw in the mall and thought could my time with SF work with these games and somehow it did. Before the internet we had to train a lot on the arcades and read the monthly magazines with the tips and moves then we hit the home systems and that was different but fun. I miss those days a lot and might not be able to join the VR crew for the next step in video game entertainment but I hope to and maybe when I get older VR will have advanced enough that after a hard day of working I can lay down and log into my own world that would be cool.
You are speaking the truth brother. I struggled to find better players during the arcade days. I remember buying a Street Fighter Alpha combo book for a one-up over everyone in my area.
The internet along with KZhead etc has definitely allowed it to be easier with finding new tricks and tactics for games. I remember back in the day playing Smash Bros Melee and figuring out how to grab items in the air before any of my friends did and kept it to myself for a while haha.
The people that say "you wouldn't be able to be as good in this ancient ass game", who says I wouldn't? If I feel like putting time into it, I could get as good as the veterans. I just don't care about getting good at games that have little to no relevance nowadays, it's a waste of time.
😂😂 Keep telling yourself you'd be just as good at a higher skill floor and skill ceiling. That's the spirit..
@@justlloyd7881 I'd even break the ceiling
Oh my god, I never knew Dan had a Ryo skin that’s amazing😂
I'm 45, been playing fighting games for years. It's definitely better now but I do miss the arcade days and getting good with a cost of a couple of quarters or tokens and a fighting strategy guide. And getting known as a good player in your mall and etc.😊
In Mexico we had arcade machines with KOF 2002 and if you knew how to consistently do special moves you basically won. It also felt like a special event when the one kid who knew how to do the k9999 ultra arm special would come by. He never told us how, so now as an adult when I was able to look it up and actually execute it on an emulator, it was cathartic!
Oh the convenience of having a training mode in fighting games nowadays..i was fortunate to live through this back in the ps era because older arcade games were ported to consoles. So i can understand the frustration AND dedication it must have been to get good fast in the acrades.
Classic max being the voice of reason
I use to play the arcade Tekken 2 and remember waiting every week at exact 3 pm on Tuesdays when the machine unlocked a new character, and I had to just try moves to see what could be done, no internet at that time, now you just check your phone and there it is a list of everything.
Love these explanations. I'm not even a fighting game player. I just like listening to this big dork talk about it lol
"Training mode" in the 90's was having the home version of the game, two controllers and friend who was willing to do the same move over and over while you get used to how to deal with it. Today, you just pick training in the main menu, select CPU behavior and learn. All while having all the frame data onscreen.
Thanks, Max! 🙌
Ah the old days of traveling around to different arcades in late 90's and early 2000's for competition."Have quarters, will travel" 😁
I agree with the information thing most of all. I’ve loved mortal kombat my whole life but didn’t really “know” how to play until MK9
Really great Video Max. Still can't beat the Arcade n SNES Days, absolutely loved that time but yh at the mo with SF6 and Tekken 8 especially Fighting Games are in a great place.
A rising tide lifts all boats
"We didn't have information" Yep, that's it.
4:47 there's a great quote from a OG Uncle that once said, "Save that SH*T for national!"
Not only is information more accessible, but you can play sooooo much more. Like the amount of matches you can play in an hour is so much higher thanks to better online, better lobbies. I can play people from coast to coast with TWO FRAMES OF ROLLBACK. not even delay. rollback. the netcode getting so much better is also a massive benefit
I remember growing up and spending just about half a year finding people to play guilty gear with. I would travel to events and conventions in order to even have a handful of people to even play the game with. Now today I literally just logged on and was able to play someone. This was something I absolutely wished for when i was growing up.
Despite GameFAQs existing when I was 14 and growing my interest in fighting games, I was more interested in discovery. I also spent most of my time playing the single player modes. These days, when I pick up a new fighting game, before going online, I'd rush to KZhead for a quick tutorial on my character's plan in neutral. It just nullifies a huge barrier of entry into each game. It allows me to get into actual mind games with worthy opponents quickly instead of wondering what is it that I don't understand about a specific game's neutral design.
Spending quarters at available arcades back in the day was practice mode, then their was bringing a friend with you to basically discipline for behaviors worthy of a ass whooping was before consoles a time to enjoy. Nowadays my kid just gets me brought down by his generation of mk’s, and tekken. When street fighter six came, we were both excited. Bout to hit 50 in June and lookin back, gaming has come a very far leaps and bounds journey and I’m humbled to have been around to see it flourish
I'm 35, I played Smash Melee for thousands of hours before the KZhead era, without ever thinking about looking for tournaments around the globe, I had my small group of people playing. I remember the absolute shock I had the first time I saw a match between actual pro players, with all their advanced movement tech that made the game look completely different. Nowadays that feeling is impossible to replicate, because information is that much easier to get.
the fighting game community is growing fast. Competition is getting harder and faster.
7:45 As a noob to Tekken, i can confirm people in Yellow ranks are blocking lows, canceling grabs, and reading my moves. Watched "top level gameplay" of my characters and it looked exactly how i play, just cleaner because they have more experience. Reminds me of when i started parkour and the skill ceiling was embarrassingly low. Ended up getting world's firsts under my belt before i ended my career
Max was almost about to turn into the Hulk for a moment there.
Well spoken dood