Here’s How Long It Takes To Fully Fill A Hydrogen Car!
Kyle is in California with a Toyota Mirai where he explains how much it costs and how long it takes to fill up a hyrdrogen electric vehicle (HEV).
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#HEV #Toyota #Mirai
A couple points to note, I believe this station was actually a station where trucks bring the hydrogen to it - it is just created in a greener way. Also, the Mirai has a 5 kg tank so we weren’t completely dead although the gauge cluster showed that we were at a minimal level
Kyle how is this green? As I understand it most hydrogen comes from methane gas. And the conversion process shows it's even less efficient from a well-wheels energy efficiency perspective. Than driving a gas or diesel car is today. Plus of course still uses rare earths for the catalysts, still uses big batteries and electric motors etc. 🤔
@@4literv6 what is your point? EVs aren't even "green" either....just so you know.
@@acatic80 I am very aware after 4 years of research on modern evs about what they are and are not. Unless you have something worth actually reading? Don't respond to someone who didn't engage you. 👍🏻
Greener than what? That hydrogen delivery truck probably came from one of the five oil refineries in the LA area or if that is "making" reformed natural gas on site, it is emitting CO2 from that elevated pipe or other vent. In either case that is not "green" hydrogen, as neither method is using electrolysis from a green source of surplus electricity. I do thank you for pointing out the time and trouble needed to get to these infrequently operational stations. HFC long haul trucks and busses maybe, but we average drivers should not be subsidizing the developments needed for that niche market at those exorbitant prices per kg. Any way, my Tesla Model 3 LR can get from 20 to 80% in the much rarer instance of a road trip like yours and have the same number of potential miles in the time I took to view this video at a Supercharger:) Oh and the Mirai is actually heavier than my car.
@@4literv6 It is not green. However as you noted produced from natural gas(methane) which the US has a large supply. East coast is just brimming full of natural gas which we should also use to produce electricity.
My son is an engineer and contributed to the design of the hydrogen tanks in the Mirai. I'm so proud of him.
Legend
Good boy. He's doing a great job
yea yea
Proud of him, Sir Regards from India
Please thank your son ..from Arizona ..bless
It takes a special talent to present 30 seconds of information in only 14 minutes
He's in love with his own voice.
Right on ?
It shows that fueling HV is indeed taking a whole 14 min. Probably more, since you have to drive to hydrogen station. My BEV takes 10 seconds. 5 sec to plug in the garage and 5 seconds to unplug 😂
Lord this guy can talk a lot!!!
Too much hot air for little info. Lost me.
There is an H2 station near me at a Shell station, but comments on Google Maps say it has been broken for over a year and attendants say no plans to fix it. Shell also dropped a plan funded by California to install more stations, so seems like Mirais will be orphans soon. Fueling costs ~4x an efficient gasoline sedan.
Shell are closing their H2 fuelling stations.
Hydrogen was $13.14/KG when filmed. Now it's $36.95/KG x 5.65 KG=$208.77 for a fillup to go 260 miles or 80 cents per mile. Ridiculous. And in Missouri, the only hydrogen filling station makes you get a container containig 100kg at H35 or 5000psi at a minimum.
Not even surprised oil companies raise prices when they feel like it. They're trying to trick ppl into thinking it's a possibility alternative.
Wow....
Great information
It would have to get a lot cheaper for the vehicle and the fuel. We have loads of fossil fuels and can insure for the environment and price.
Exponential technological improvement will deal with this compared with the 20 minute highway chargers fill up. Not to mention the millions of tons of copper wiring - equal to the total copper mined since the beginning of the Bronze Age.
A man who can talk without stopping for 14 minutes, and not pass on any useful information whatsoever.
Summary of every hydrogen and ev car owner
Impressive
I believe this is more of a "Come find out with me" video than a "Let me show you" video, if you get what I mean.
If you’re looking for a scientific paper go to your professor. This was plenty for the rest of us mxm
They forgot to put the WO in front of his MAN card.
I was in line to get gas in Anaheim, and noticed a long line of cars waiting for one pump. I asked a guy what was happening and he told me they were all waiting to fill up with hydrogen. We talked through the cost, which when he started his lease was less that gas, but now a month ago, it was more expensive then gas. He loved the actual car, but said that owning a hydrogen car was more like being owned by a hydrogen car. There were only two places for fuel in the area, the other being a Toyota in Orange. And they were often down. He also told me that if you wanted to say drive to Las Vegas, which many Southern Californian's do, you're out of luck, no hydrogen stations in Las Vegas or along the route. In that case you notify the company, and they rent a car for you for the trip, which you were allowed to do several times a year. Also, when he got the car, they supplied him with a $15,000 dollar fuel card, which after over two years of driving he had barely dented, so at the moment the car was cheap to operate, but once the card ran out, he figured it would be more expensive then a similar ICE powered car of the same size and cost. I thought it was fascinating, but very limiting. I mean, if you think an EV is limiting, hydrogen's another ballpark. He did say that there were fleets of cars used by delivery services that loved it, but they had access to fuel, and all their trips were local. The incentive when he got the car was a) Federal Rebates, b) CA Rebates, c) So. California Rebates, d) Manufacturer Rebates, and finally e) that $15k fuel card. So he got a $40K car for around $22k, plus no fuel costs. So, he was pleased, for now. "Would he buy one again" I asked, and he said, "Not sure. I do think about that question though."
interesting. I feel like H2 is more for vehicles that need a LOT of energy, more energy than you could easily get from batteries, such as aircraft, ships, trains, LONG distance trucks (over 250 miles), etc. Because those vehicles operate from certain places, such as airports for aircraft, marine ports for ships (usually deep water ports), etc. For small cars the size of the Mirai, I feel like battery is better, since we people already have electric going into their house/apartment/condo, and at worst it is a question of having an L2 charger installed. 🙂
Although, the other other reason to make green hydrogen is LARGE SCALE energy storage. You can carve out a storage cavern underground, and when you are generating excess green power, you split water and pump H2 underground. It should last a long time down there. Then when it's time to get it back, you let the H2 out and either combust it (with a flame) or run it through a high power fuel cell. 🙂
@@neutrino78x H2 is good for airplanes, maybe ships, and steel production. For cars it is just a waste of energy.
@@Henning_Rech "H2 is good for airplanes, maybe ships, and steel production. For cars it is just a waste of energy." Yes, this is what I said, I agree with this statement.
A 2 year old Mirai with 15k miles for $19k is overpriced by $3700 according to car gurus. Even with the incredible subsidies, they are basically worthless once they drive off the lot. No way this makes sense for any consumer. Agree with all the sentiments on this thread.
Great informative video. Thanks, bro.
When there's a line waiting to fill up, if you're the 3rd car, you will have to wait while the nozzle warms up. I wouldn't be surprised if that took at least 15 minutes.
So, at $60 to fill up divided by a 260 mile range, it seems to cost about $0.23/ mile to drive. An economical car that gets 35 MPG and assuming $5.00/ gallon will cost about $0.14/ mile to drive.
Exactly. And the pump itself freezing up is a joke LOL.
And for the amount of energy used to make that hydrogen they could have charged 3 to 6 EVs.
Fuel costs in California average $6-7 a gallon recently
@@warrensteel9954 Provide the specs for that?
@@claudioklaus2642 : I was wondering if that pump would work in northern winter.
Takes 4:31 to fill the tank. You just got back some additional time to watch more Out of Spec videos.
14:03 minutes. That's how long!
@@LarsDennert makes sense to me
No one was pushing for this technology. Follow the money in political battery investments.
thanks 😂 I didn't need to watch the video because its impractical to have this type of fueling station at home where we all know it is most needed
Gasoline in d still the best option, but we have a administration that has been pushing for batteries. Follow the investments in mining lithium, creating battery cars and charging stations, and of course totally ignore over worked to the max electric grid. If you're going to demand a alternative to gasoline, then hydrogen bests batteries by MILES (pun intended). Especially with the newest technology and solid storing hydrogen at half the weight of batteries
Per station, you can fill 2 cars per 30 minutes. It takes the station about 25 minutes to get full pressure again for the next 2 cars. When Hydrogen is brought in by truck, there is enough Hydrogen to fill 36 cars (or 9 hydrogen trucks/Busses). After that, the station has to be refilled. . . . . . . cant be that busy with Hydrogen cars.
There's only two hydrogen filling stations in australia. There's 60 in the US, nearly all in Califiornia.
The US is 30x more dopey than we are then. This is the dumbest idea that just passes away energy to try make a market for the fossil fuel companies who want to greenwash their gas/coal via making hydrogen from it.
Hello. I test hydrogen fuel quality for the State of California. My colleagues and I routinely visit all hydrogen stations in California and obtain samples. This is a liquid hydrogen station. This allows for much more hydrogen to be stored on site. The older gaseous stations only have a capacity around 100 kg. The liquid stations have a capacity around 1000 kg. The hydrogen is truck delivered and stored in a liquid state on site. The station then boils off the liquid into a gas and maintains the gaseous hydrogen at fill pressure. The vent is actually not too loud since the vent has such a wide bore. I'm guessing this is the Baldwin Park station. We haven't tested it yet, but it will be on our docket soon!
Mow THIS is a helpful post…. Thank you
@@tmiller64 You're welcome! Thank you for highlighting the technology. From my many conversations, most people I meet don't even know that fuel cell vehicles exist or what they even are. Feel free to ask me any other questions.
@@andrewadkins727 How many hydrogen stations exist in CA?
I built them! Hydrogen, CNG, and Cyro CNG! all dead ends! all energy Up Side Down!
@@andrewadkins727 do you know why some of the stations run out very frequently? Are they not operated as other gas stations? Do you know why the development plan for hydrogen gas is stalled? It seems that they are way behind everywhere installing those stations. Would have loved to get a fuel cell car but live in the country and theres no station around😔
Thank you for giving live demonstration of the use of hydrogen as a fuel for the daily usage such as driving a vehicle.
Really enjoyed this look into the new Mirai. And don't worry about the newbie aspects of the refilling, we're all newbies at some point and this is a great overview. It's also refreshing to hear someone who's experienced with plug in electric, but is also open minded about hydrogen fuel cell vehicles like this one. Also like the sleek futuristic interior. Have to say too, plug in electric are a stepping stone to hydrogen or some other advanced technology. Battery EV's have so many batteries which are often mined in appalling conditions, and those materials are finite. Then there's the end of life recycling of all those batteries. When an hydrogen filling station is running on renewables and doesn't need tanker trucks to bring in hydrogen, it's wonderful. Those are the ones that need to be invested in. Less than five minutes to fill the tank and getting a wicked range is WAY better than waiting over half hour for crappy batteries to charge. I will never do that, it's retarded 🥴👉
I think, hydrogen can be a good option for construction equipment. JCB is developing Hydrogen diggers after they realized electric diggers wont even last 1 hour of work.
That’s not true. Diggers aren’t moving very far like a car does, so the workload is actually less. Remember a car is moving 5000 lbs 250 miles. That’s a huge workload as compared to digging 200,000 lbs over 100 feet.
Another example of just how poor EVs work in the real world. They’ll never replace ICE vehicles in the near future. Unless they just want people to not go to work. Diggers still do the same amount of work digging as cars just going down the road
@@jimsteinway695 Buy a coal fired car. Gas is the new dinosaur. My EV will pay for itself in 10 years of gas & oil savings. Solar or cry.
@@BioniqBob Ok, so you are selfish like most people. No problem. Now that we've solved your own personal financial savings - how about the rest of the people soaking up electricity off the grid to charge their cars, forklifts, trucks, etc. to save money on gas? They already have planned brownouts in the 'we don't give a crap about you' areas of California to offset the problem. It is growing, and for every cola power plant they shutdown and don't replace, the problem gets worse. Everyone I know, including me, are all for green energy - but we can't just magic it into existence. We have to get it in place and 100% replacement before we shut down the prior source, and we actually need to be adding on top of it for all these electric vehicles that will be replacing ICE over the next decades. Any suggestions for the people crying about Solar? The war for batteries that there aren't enough of to supply even the USA alone for power consumption right now? I think people need to lighten up about nuclear fission and fusion if we're going to get off of fossil fuels. We're never going to get away from oil and gas for some things anyway for many more decades. There is oil in everything from solar panels to the composites in your EVs, your house, your office, almost everything synthetically produced has some amount of oil in it.
@@jimsteinway695 just add more batteries
There should be feedback like a light or beep to indicate when the H2 nozzle is securely attached to the refilling port of the vehicle.
In oil n gas industry there are mechanical indicator to indicate correct coupling
It won't let you start filling unless it's properly attached, also the reason why it had him take it out and try again is because he kept putting it in and taking it out.
It's just quick connect which is standard on air connections. Just pull back the collar momentarily and push it on until it clicks into place
You could see the greenish yellow ring appear at the base of the coupler when he finally figured out how to attach it, it's similar to your typical air hose connection, pull back the locking collar slightly before meeting male to female connections and it'll clip right on(I'm sure many of us watching were either yelling at our phones or mumbling it under our breaths when he couldn't figure it out lol)
Yea, a light bulb next to hydrogen. What could possibly go wrong. Even hear of the Hindenburg?
As I'm sure millions have said already, the key issue with hydrogen is we have to make it. And we make it from carbon sources, using a staggering amount of power. (compressing it, pumping it, carrying it, etc., etc.) If you want to be "green", H2 absolutely is not the path. Alcohol, bio-diesel, and solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, etc. are all better ways to be "green". Making H2 from "excess electricity" is also not a very good means of storage. (maybe better than aluminium-air batteries... smelting Al is a very energy intense process.) But I will concede, a liquid (or compressed gas) is way faster to "recharge" than any battery ever will be.
Even EVs are a scam and the furthest thing away from being green, in an even more extreme fashion than hydrogen vehicles. What they fail to tell you is that one excavator burns thousands of gallons of diesel in a 12 hour shift in order to mine the lithium, cobalt and nickel thats needed to create a single battery pack. EVs use many battery packs in one vehicle. Mind you I have nothing against EVs, but marketing it as a green alternative to gas vehicles is just downright deceptive.
The solution is to make it from nuclear power stations. Duh.
As CEO of a company that has expertise in Hydrogen, we recognize that H2 production, compression, transportation and storage can in no way even remotely compete with the energy density, stability and availability of liquid hydrocarbons. H2 is VERY reactive and difficult to produce, it is not available as free hydrogen in the atmosphere. H2 is useful for onsite production and use, such as in manufacturing cleaner liquid hydrocarbons, chemicals and fertilizers... as a direct fuel - it is silly. (Btw... that you actually considered that unit was a hydrogen production facility, shows just how uninformed the masses are - no offense.)
I missed the final cost.... and another 260 miles. Believe I'll stick with my 98 civic hatch. I drove right at ll00 miles to see my brother in New Mexico, and it cost me a whopping $62- a few cents, That was running 75/80 with a/c. Had a 96 that got 42 mpg, at 65/75 with a/c. That was at least 90+% interstate driving.
If you already have a decent ride and you don't mind keeping it vs a newer model, it literally doesn't matter. Unless it's a piece of junk that needs repair every 2 months, using your older vehicle is always better than the production required to build a new EV or hydrogen car.
@@sws212 was nationally certified mechanic, but I also have an A&P license. Worked everything from a 2stroke weed easter to a Boeing 747, The Ole Honda will be cruising for some time. I do hope you do not have a serious accident. Ask your dealer how they have protected the hydrogen bomb you are carrying around as fuel. Car batteries give off hydrogen gas, have you seen one explode! I hope you don't.
@@pdufusc ......I've seen batteries blow. It wasn't like a stick of dynamite. I'm excited for the Hydrogen vehicles as I don't believe electric cars are the way. Electric is exciting, but not for the scale they want. BTW, I've seen gas cars explode (Pinto) so I would trust it as we can't be worried by what if.....
I remember getting I believe it was 62 miles a gallon in a late 90s Civic traveling cross country from Cali to Chicago. The interstate performance and downhill driving helped a lot! I think the inevitable EV backlash will drive a new era of fuel and environmental performance in ICE vehicles. PHEV are already have far surpassed the 100mpg-e mark, and 150mpg will be standard in a few years.
I live in NM and unfortunately you see 20-30 SUVs/Pick-ups for every Honda Civic. It could make a difference that will add up over time in the long run if those 20-30 SUVs/Pick-ups also were BEV, PHEV, or had hybrid powertrains. People will switch to hydrogen in a minute if it only cost $5-$10 to fill up each time for +300 mile range.
I like your knowledge and the way you explained the deference between the two products. Great little low down
it really depends on how full the tanks are at the refueling station, I owned an LPG car, it's a car that ran on liquified gas IE: propane/butane mix. When the tanks were full then the limiter kicks in, it takes 15-30 seconds from empty and I am on my way shortly after... But when the the fuel stations tanks are running low then the PSI of the tank would take a while to fill, sometimes minutes as the meter clicks by slowly... so it is all about how much fuel they have to sell you
Thanks dude , great experience !
I’ve watched True Zero trucks come in to fill up the stations before as a Mirai owner myself (Aliso Viejo and San Juan Capistrano are my two go-to stations) - they actually truck it in not as compressed cylinders but as a cryogenic liquid. As for that vent, yes that is what it’s for - the reason why it’s that high up is to take advantage of the fact that hydrogen is lighter than air. When excess gas is let out of that vent, it escapes the atmosphere and just floats off into space.
Nothing is TRUE ZERO just a virtue signaling name.
Plot twist, Hydrogen is similar to carbon monoxide in that it acts as an indirect greenhouse gas through its effect on hydroxyl (OH) radicals. By reducing the levels of OH in the atmosphere, hydrogen increases the lifetime of some direct greenhouse gases, such as methane. So hopefully not much escapes..
It does not float off into space.... we have gravity lol. It definitely stays in our atmosphere.
@@marcdeboer1280 free hydrogen escapes quite readily from Earth's atmosphere. That's why most atmospheric hydrogen left at this time is bound chemically (water vapour, etc). It's too bad they can't have a pilot light or something to flare off that gas, as this will become a larger problem if this tech ever became dominant.
Hi Kenny. I’m in Dana point and getting my mirai tomorrow 🙂
As a college student training to be an automotive technician 45 years ago in 1977, my professor said he could envision hydrogen becoming the dominant fuel source for the transportation industry. I have watched with great interest the development of hydrogen technology ever since to see how it would all play out. Like the EV industry, large-scale public adoption will in part depend on having an infrastructure that supports the convenience the public has come to demand with fuel stations located nearby wherever you are. As I see in this video, the story is still evolving. Thank you for the update!
...I studied it extensively back then, did my thesis on hydrogen economy, it will come as there are so many benefits. The tipping point is using renewable energy ideas to generate the hydrogen through electrolysis, then use it for many applications like transportation, but better for when the renewables are off-line. The only issue keeping this from happening is cheap oil, but oil and gas will be depleted and this form will dominate - I guess another 30-50 years transition. (and interesting downside is the over manufacture of oxygen, affecting the environment adversly - so the oxygen will have to also be used as the oxidizer in combustion and not air) will be a cool wild transition ride....
@@wokewokerman5280 Oxygen is killing us...
Hydrogen Fuel Cell all the way!
Your professor was and is wrong. The future is battery.
And your choice of petrol or diesel cars is endless....
Man, this is a gorgeous car and beautiful paint (color and lacque).
I purchased a second generation Mirai back in 2021 (like his, but mine is black in color), gorgeous car, but getting hydrogen could be a challenge at times, not to mention the price of hydrogen went up more than a 100% since 2021 (from $13.05 kg to $26.75 a kg). True Zero really jacked up the price as it appears they’re a majority hydrogen supplier in the market, no market competition, so who knows, they might raise the price up again next month. I love the zero omission that hydrogen engine produced, but against the idea of market monopoly by True Zero, sadly, I will have to let go of this beautiful vehicle next week. Thanks to the Toyota dealer where I bought this vehicle from as my salesman says that the dealer will buy it back from me.
You do realize your price means nothing to someone used to gasoline a their fuel. In addition, gasoline prices vary greatly by location and fluctuate throughout the year.
The overwhelming problem with hydrogen vehicles is it’s a continuation of the complexity of the gasoline car. And the pressurizing adds even more complexity. The simplicity of the ev system is only going to get better and cheaper.
I like the idea of this technology, But I live in Europe, and fuel is very expensive. But I also own a 6-year-old Diesel Ford Focus that burns so clean that the UK does not tax it. And I get about 55 MPG. Oh, BTW, it is no dog on the road, Higher to[p end that my Mustang had. I understand Diesel Fuel is cleaner over here, but why cant we do that in the States also? I still remember being happy with 7-8 MPG and $0.19 a gallon. I just do not believe we have to be so hard on ourselves. we can make much cleaner, more efficient engines if we really want to. but where are the Taxes on that? IMO
@@clintatk The Marai is not an ICE vehicle. It's an electric motor vehicle. The hydrogen fuel cell powers the electric motor. But you are correct that it won't work for passenger but probably for construction, heavy work, etc. It's a lab test in reality and it's also necessary with states/feds mandates for zero emissions.
@@tracys2354 To be completely accurate the Mirai is a hydrogen-electric hybrid. It may remove the complexity of an ICE vehicle but replaces it with the complexity of said hybrid.
I think you need to attach the filling probe BEFORE pressing the fuel grade button on the dispenser
He should probably wear a pair of gloves as well. To avoid the cold handle.
And learn to read the on screen instructions..
The fuel up time is actually better than I thought it would be. Your average gas pump does about 7 to 9 gallons a minute. So, you're looking at 2 to 3 minutes to fill up a standard car.
7:48
Process of hydrogen produsing is so simple, that in future every home will have own ministation.
Building a hydrogen station costs "$1.9 million in capital (median capital cost of $1.9 million)". Compare that to EV charging stations: "Electric vehicle charging stations can come in Level 1, Level 2, and DC fast charging types. The cost of an electric vehicle charging station can range from $300 to $100,000" Hydrogen fuel is not the future and generating it requires a lot of energy. This is not environmentally friendly at all. "Today, about 95% of all hydrogen is produced from steam reforming of natural gas. Learn more about: Natural gas reforming. Coal gasification."
@@arturmedia I mean individual (for one family) small hydrogen generator. There a lot of types of it on youtube. Just try to find it
@@arturmedia🤦♂️
You mentioned how frosted and hardened the hose becomes after use. What if you live in a northern state, where ambient temperatures can reach below freezing? and below zero, for that matte? I appreciate that you brought this video for information on the basics, but you were in Southern California. I would like to find out more about this in the northern states on how it responds filling times, prices, difficulty of inserting the hose when it's frozen and how long it would take if the ambient temperatures are below freezing below 32° f.? Johnny boy
I have been interested in the whole Hydrogen fuel for passenger cars for a long time now, but there is several problems with this refueling tech right now that I am seering here. First off the source where this comes from, one source is splicing it from Petroleum, which is very dirty energy, we have to go completely towards extracting from water because of Climate Change and get rid of fossil fuels entirely. Second problem is the frosting and how extremely cold the insert gets when you up in northern states and in Canada (or even any other country in the northern hemisphere), at the moment this kind of refueling process is completely unviable to use up in Northern States right now. In order to match Gasoline for refueling, a number of issues will have to be overcome. 1. At a Hydrogen station, what if someone starts driving with the insert in the vehicle still? Does the Car have the ability to turn on with the insert in the vehicle right now? Plus Hydrogen out in the open air is extremely dangerous and can explode, more so than Gasoline is in the air. While I see all of this as a cool option, I don't think this fuel option is going to overcome electric battery technology at all with how advertised Electric has become now and he is completely correct about this fuel option will be a good alternative for the medium to heavy trucking industry to get away from diesel engines but for regular passenger and public transportation, that will be 100% electric most likely going forward. Plus, Hydrogen is going to be inconvenient compared to Electric, where you have to find a station that has the ability to refuel the vehicle, whereas you can just recharge the vehicle right at home and recharging stations infrastructure is farther along compared to Hydrogen. Overall, there is too many inconveniences with Hydrogen right now, once the battery industry overcomes the supercharging time issue being shortened down with longer distance trail, its going to be hard for me to see how anyone is going to want to go to a station from your home to refuel a vehicle still, when you can just recharge it straight from the house. Yes when your on the road, of course there should be the stations, but they have to solve the charge time issues right now.
Really enjoyable videos thank you
You did a great job to explain everything clearly in one take, which is pretty impressive.
Great job!
There were sneaky cuts.
FYI: All gas heat up when is compressed in a fixed volume not just hydrogen. Is not the expansion of gas that cause it to heat up, but compression. H2 is at a low pressure in the tank. As you add more H2 into the tank, work is put into the tank. It takes a lot of energy to compress gas. That is work. When you put compressed air into a tank, you are putting that work into the tank. If the tank has a piston moving on the other end, then the tank is doing work. Since the tank is rigid, is taking in energy, but not putting out energy. That energy it takes in becomes heat. One way to counter that is to pump in cold H2 to counter the heat.
All this work takes energy. Carnot (intrinsic) limits the amount of energy that can be recovered. If there is no mechanism for recovery - the amount recovered is zero.
Oh - yeah. Right - Let's just say stuff without checking it out. This is from a paper by Siemens Energy USA - but what would they know : Hydrogen has a unique characteristic that can present a challenge for safe compression. Ordinarily, when gas expands from higher pressure to a lower pressure, at normal temperatures, it cools down. Hydrogen, on the other hand, heats up when expanded at a temperature above its ‘inversion point’ of -112˚F (-80˚C). This characteristic is known as the ‘Reverse Joule-Thomson effect’
@@tommidgley6811 Hi, can you please post a link to this paper? Thank you
@@tommidgley6811 always better to just speak from our a##!
Siemens Energy aren’t deep state either. They can say whatever they want to! They are not for us.
Interesting tech. Thanks for doing this to show us how.
fou mentioned cost at the beginning of the video, but didn't say how much at the end. Also, it would seem to me that the amount of gas that would fit into the tank would vary depending on the ambiant temperature, as at a given pressure, the density varies with temp.
He was too bizzy blithering nonsense to let us know the cost, which of those watching only 100% want to know. Undid subscribing.
I still believe hydrogen cars are still the future of cars..especially if the replacement cost of a electric battery remains the same for the next 10-20 years
Wait until you see the replacement cost of fuel cell system components ;)
@@milanswoboda5457 Great point..honestly didn’t think about that🤔
@@milanswoboda5457 well, you could say the same about ev batteries 20 years ago.
@@turnoff7572 well the fuel cell is around much longer than the LiIon battery and it took them over 50 years to get to where it is now if we take the GM Electrovan, a HFC vehicle, as benchmark.
Unfortunately you also have to replace the tanks at an astonishly expensive $25,000 in 15 years. Hopefully that price will come down, as will batteries. The expiration date on the fuel door of this car was 2035 as seen in the video when they had a close up fueling the car. That doesn't count all the other components that will need replacing.
Hey there Kyle, thank you for sharing this with the rest of us, So presumably we will use the 4:30 as an approximate timeline when guessing at our probable time "At the Pump," so to speak. I do not recall if you went over the final Cost of this refueling, or did I somehow miss this discussion and comparison to the competing EVs or Fossil Fuel consuming alternatives? Thank you for this demonstration AND a Happy New Year 2023 to you. (as it is currently January 2, 2023, while creating this Comment). Keep Smiling... Cheers...
It cost $60 and the car estimated 260 miles of range. That would work out to about $0.23 per mile driven. Electric cars average about 5 cents a mile and gasoline cars about 14 cents. So a gas car is about 3x more expensive to drive than an electric one and hydrogen is over 4x more. Of course it all depends on what car and the gas prices or electric rates but those are some numbers I found doing a quick Google search.
@@JaredConnell You know, I hate to come across as "Politically Incorrect" here, but at this point, if only for the convenience, I think that I'd still opt for a Gasoline powered vehicle. You see Jared, for myself I find that "Time" itself, is a much more precious commodity than Money. This holds true as I age, but even more so. As a matter of fact, today is my 67th Birthday and at this age Time is a bit of a bitch. No negotiating for more, or anything, Man, when Time is up... It's up... POOF! I hope that made, at least a bit of sense to you? I really don't have Time to share every facet of my thinking on this, so I hope that this will suffice. If not... go ahead and Hate me. Either way, I wish you Well & a reasonable amount of Happiness. Keep Smiling... Ciao...
@@shineon7641 Do you stand around waiting for your cell phone to recharge? I didn't think so, you probably charge it while you sleep, and it is easy and relatively cheap to put in a charging station at your home, as all homes tend to be able to deliver at least 240V at their main electrical panel. Charging stations for EVs are popping up at lots of businesses and parking garages because it is a great way to draw in customers, so you will likely be able to recharge while you work, or dine at a restaurant, or do laundry, or do your grocery shopping, no additional errands need to be added to your schedule for charging your car, and in normal daily use most EV owners are able to drive right past the fueling stations that gasoline or diesel powered vehicles have to stop at, because the batteries can deliver more than a round trip of commuting for most people, so the cars get charged while you sleep, same as your phone. An EV will likely save you time out of your day, unlike liquid or gaseous fuels that have very few, limited re-filling locations.
@@shineon7641That is why ev's are good. You have to fuel up once a week at a petrol station which takes 5+ minutes while with an ev... you don't. You charge to full at home without waiting. It charges overnight so the only time you spend is the 2 seconds plugging/unplugging.
thanks for the complete honesty throughout. the reason why i went electric for my snowplow machine was because starting the gasoline powered machine each time was too hard for me. your struggling fueling the hydrogen car reminded me of exactly that. pardon my ignorance but i thought fulling hydrogen was simply to put water into tank home but after watching this video, for a person as weak as i am, i'm totally staying away from the hydrogen powered cars
You need electricity to make hydrogen gas from liquid water, then you have to squeeze the gas with tank pressure similar to that of rocket ship, so you need a very sturdy hose to handle the pressure, with electric battery cars you just turn up the voltage with a on-site transformer so you don't need a thick copper cable to charge the car, tesla even runs liquid through their cable to keep it cool to further reduce the wire thickness and making it easier to handle, so the cable they use to charge a semi truck battery isn't much thicker than their cable made for sedans.
He failed to push the blue locking sleeve forward the first time, possibly because it was frozen, so when he unplugged the filling hose to try again the system reset itself and he had to start again.
The pump and dump at the beginning is so it can chill the tanks and get a proper fill like propane not as much as a positive pressure test but makes sense to do obviously. I hope the lines are made of titanium at least, If not some rust just might make this car Da'bomb lol
Thanks this was quite informative. I believe you should have started the stopwatch earlier, like when you pulled up to the pump, because all the jerking around with cards and nozzles is part of the filling experience... especially if you hope to compare the time to fill with other fuels or with a tesla supercharger, for example.
wrong
Yep. The person in line behind you when filling has to wait for the complete proccess, not just the actual fill time. Timer starts when you put it in park, doesnt stop until you pull away. Anything else is simply obvious propoganda.
@@apexcrazyful How is it "obvious propaganda"? He was documenting the entire process slowly so the audience could understand it fully? He ordinarily wouldn't go that slow. Everyone's fill times, no matter the fuel type, would vary due to any number of variables in the transaction, including payment processing. The only constant that can be measured in any fill situation is when you're allowing the pump to do the work.
The length of the video is kind of the timer. Just edit out a couple mins of his useless rambling and sponsor.
Typical pressurized tanks have a 'shelf life' before needing to be recertified or replaced. I would be interested to know the service life of the H2 tank.
In the 2016 Mirai, it was 15 years. Not sure about the new one.
How about the life of *the fuel cell* ? From Energy.gov (US) "DOE has set ultimate targets for fuel cell system lifetime under realistic operating conditions at 8,000 hours for light-duty vehicles," Note that's ULTIMATE" targets and depends on factors including atmospheric conditions (temperature, air and fuel contamination) and "dynamic load cycles" that result in stresses on the chemical and mechanical stability of the fuel cell system materials and components" In other words you may be wondering after you have a "fender bender" if a fuel line or connection was "stressed" to the point it may fail in future..... 🤔 . And, "dynamic load cycles"? The more you use it, the more stress.
They're using carbon tanks, but look for hydrogen stored in solid form that's just being developed.
@@ronkosanovich6450 you can store hydrogen long term or transport it in pipelines as ammonia which is just 3 hydrogen atoms and one nitrogen. they're even working on engines that burn it without having transform it back into hydrogen.
@@anthonyrowland9072 Honestly, it's kinda awkward seeing people complain about what is, instead of realizing that those challenges are already in consideration and being actively developed to be eliminated. Do we still have horse-driven trams running through the cities? I don't think so... so why people want to volunatrily blind themselves towards possibilities, I do not know.
Thank you so much, So I have question so now is approximately $66 for the full tank of 5 kilogram hydrogen of the Toyota Mirai and will give you only 320 miles or 400 miles ?
Thanks bro, i had just heard of this technology(in india)( hydrogen fuel) that engineers are working on this future technology ,but fortunately i found right on KZhead that too practical demo about hydrogen fueling station and also already 1 year old video, thanks ( although i am not a fan of cars, came to know about two new company tesla last year/toyota hydrogen just now improving my tech knowledge through foreigners, ( right now i dont have money to buy even cycle😅) but enjoyed your videos,👍
I noticed you did not highlight the cost. From what I saw, it was about $60 for the hydrogen used for the 300 miles?
So essentially it’s same as ICE car then at today’s petrol prices? NO thank you.
Thats the next video. It should be 1.00 a gallon.
Thinking back to the early conversations around EVs, I'm looking forward to the coming advances in hydrogen. The current state of the tech seems to be more geared towards industrial/freight uses, but if the refueling process (namely, the connecting/disconnecting the hose) and the ability to cheaply and cleanly process the hydrogen advance enough, I'd much prefer a hydrogen car to an EV. I wouldn't be able to charge it at home, but I can't do that with my current car.
Well this it is an EV, It's a hydrogen fuel cell (like a EV/Hydrogen hybrid). But I am excited to see if true Hydrogen cars will ever be practical. The Yamaha hydrogen engine sounds awesome!
@@quattrocity9620 They should honestly make it both ways where you get get hydrogen refueled but also have a plug in outlet charge port for EV.
@Karl with a K welp, gas is a explosive/flameable materials too
@Mic Ken What will be the end result?
@Mic Ken Available now in what sense? That the science and technology we currently understand is capable of making such a vehicle or that such a vehicle exists?
Speed to fill is nice, but it's really only an advantage on road trips. And that advantage comes with a real cost premium.
Nice Review ... Good Details
Wow, that was impressive and fast. Of course, the main benefit of a hydrogen engine is that the only waste "exhaust" is water (apart from a trace bit of nitrogen oxide when oxidation occurs at normal environmental temperatures). So 300 miles with no carbon waste and only water generated- that is what makes this fantastic!
There is no nitrogen oxide. It is not an engine it's a fuel cell that generates electricity with an working temperature 80-100C
False, as most hydrogen stations need their fuel delivered via... you guessed it... ICE/diesel trucks. Worse, the hydrogen is either produced as an impurity removed during fossil fuel refinement or generated through electrolysis via the standard electric grid unless you're somehow using a producer that has verifiably committed to using 100% renewable power. At the absolute best, it's no cleaner AND less efficient than an EV charging from your own home's solar or some other renewable power source. But as of today, the best-case scenario is basically nonexistent for H2.
@@vaporcobra yes, really inefficient. BEV has tiny losses.
@@vaporcobra if your going down that rabbit hole, the majority of households get their electric from coal or natural gas plants. Solar panels are not zero emissions as the creation of solar panels requires a lot "dirty" processes. The only 3 viable combinations for the future without fusion becoming a thing, is Nuclear plants with electric cars , or Hydro cars with local Electrolysis systems, which need to be powered by nuclear. If your not a fan of Nuclear then Solar Satellite network in orbit, would be the best bet for a runner up in clear energy. H2 will probably lose out to EVs as people get scared with the concept of Hydrogen being unsafe due to airships blowing up in the1930s, people perception matters more than the actual science and stats in the fearmongering world of environmentalist Doomer land.
@@vaporcobra it all has to start somewhere. Any amount of carbon generation from society is a good thing. One step at a time.
20 cents per mile is close to the low average compared to gas so there is no savings there. I enjoyed this video, it was very informative. At $4.27 per gal for gas my Subaru Outback averages about 15 cents per mile plus my range is more. Unless money means nothing to you it will have to be economically feasible before people start buying these cars.
You know that there will be fuel shortages in up comings years. So these alternatives are best option as the fuel won’t remain on the same price.
@@maanimrankhan2265 stop with your doomer nonsense
@@maanimrankhan2265 Fuel shortages in the coming years? I think you're confused with the electricity shortage that will cause even more rolling blackouts.
So, there in sunny southern CA, the nozzle and hose are almost too cold and stiff to handle. How would that do in -20 winters in the northern states? or Canada? How about Alaska? Maybe Hydrogen is kinda like a fair-weather friend. More similar to electric than to gasoline in that regard?
If companies were as interested in HV's as they were EV's, "the infrastructure" and "the technology" would not be concerns. The early EVs had barely a 150 mile range. If you were in a city, with the AC on, and with the radio on, you would get 50 miles of range. Comparing that to 400 mile ranges now (claimed in perfect conditions), the amount of development has been remarkable. Everyone always says that HVs arent efficient, and that they cant be the future, but the same was said about EVs, and is still said very frequently to this day.
Please correct me if this is no longer an issue, but my understanding was that a further limitation was the pump needed to repressureize between fills - and that took something like 20 minutes - rending the pump pretty useless if you had a line of folks wanting to fill up. Again, let me know if they’ve overcome this. I’d be interested to know.
Very well explained and filmed vid. From a first time user perspective. Informative and insightful. Well done and thank you! ✌🏼😎
just two problems first no filling stations outside of California second only 2% vehicles can be hydrogen fuel cell powered wa wa waaaaa
The cost for a full tank seemed a bit high to me. 260 Miles at $60 makes it more expensive for hydrogen fuel than gas. I have been saying for years that hydrogen is the way to go. Having it generated at the point of consumption means so many fewer trucks on the road moving fuel!!
One day in maybe 30, 50 years, people are going to watch this video and say, I can't Believe they used to fuel their cars like this
I used to drive a CNG van at work. I remember a couple of years ago when waiting at the pump. It was about -20° F and the van in front of me was filling up when all of a sudden the tank ruptured. Fortunately, no one was injured.
Sacrifice for Climate which is changing, do not eat beef, do not breathe out co2, do not take shower, do not fly plane, stop all ships....
@@ellau5850 Yep, I won't be sacrificing anything. I now drive a gasoline vehicle for work. My personal vehicle is also gasoline powered. The oly way to save the planet is to eliminate the WEF.
Only those people that fly charter plane need to sacrifice, only those billionaire with 10,000 square feet houses need to sacrifice
why pressurize it? Ovshinsky developed a tank that ran his Prius hybrid for years. Solid hydride absorbs the H2 into a normal gas tank. Look uo Stanford Ovshinsky the self taught engineer with 300+ patents....
@@brianjones7660 Did big oil buy his patent to hide it so they can continue to push gasoline?
Wow! This is really state of the art. Thanks to Magna? I love the sound of the filling station. Makes it so much easier to find it, when you lower a window.
I assume you're being sarcastic! LOL
You use your ear to find gas stations? LMAO
There's new systems now that don't require the cooling that store at around 5K psi and regulate down to operate at around 110 PSI. Look up Mike Copeland of Arrington Performance. Thanks for sharing. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
This looks so much easier than plugging in my EV before sleep and waking up with a full charge , yeah right ⁉️ 😮
What?😂
Probably easier than what you do if you forget.
And what if you get home for a trip and your battery is low, but your spouse needs the car immediately for whatever reason? Yes, she's gonna sit at a DCFC for over 30 mins. That's if it ain't broken.
You get the same miles, about 300, for plug it in your EV or your hydrogen car. You don't have to plug it in every night unless you drive a ton, in which case you're going to the gas station daily too.
I don't live in California , where am I going to get it charged ⁉️ And hydrogen is even more expensive than gas
The first kid that gets his tongue stuck on a frosty hydrogen filling port will be famous forever.
Maybe they will make a movie about it with an older gentleman narrating it.
"But the bell rang!"-Ralphie
Famous AND RICH!
You missed showing the sticker inside the filling door which displays an expiration date. After that date, you are not allowed to fill the vehicle without replacing the hydrogen components so it's basically an expiration date for the car.
aaronw • 😂🤣😂 Garbage technology! So you get more extra car parts of the whole system, you use the grid electricity to create hydrogen, the hydrogen is used in the fuel cell to create electricity again to power the electric motor = two wasteful energy conversion processes = the idiotic hydrogen car. What if you just use the grid electricity to charge a car battery to power the electric motor = one economical energy conversion process = the electric car? 🙄😏🙂
@@mikel4879 Exactly. Hydrogen is a bitch to deal with, just look at how many scrubbed rocket launches there are due to leaks. It embrittles metal and leaks through everything. Its volumetric density is quite low compared to traditional fuel. Transporting it is also expensive. You can't use traditional pipelines due to embrittlement, and the only way to transport it in a big enough quantity is to cryogenically freeze it to 20K, which takes a lot of energy. It takes a ton of energy just to deal with hydrogen. Electricity is easy by comparison. The only reason it's priced as low as it is is due to the fact it's created from natural gas, a process limited to no more than 70% theoretical efficiency with a CO2 biproduct. Only 2% of hydrogen comes from water. Then the HFC stack is around 60% efficient at best. Not only do you need to deal with hydrogen, but the HFC system needs to do a lot more to filter the air than a traditional car. They can't handle pollutants like NOx or any sort of dirt. The PEM membrane also degrades over time as platinum is lost.
how long expiration do those components typically have? i drive biogas (methane) vehicles at work and the expiration on those components there basically means the scraping of the vehicle so essentialy if u have a 10 year old car with those expired u can basicaly throw the otherwise good car into a landfill.. biogas is also another name for natural gas used by the companies here..
@@tomwolf2603 I think for hydrogen cars it's 14 years from the date of manufacture. Hydrogen is hard on components, especially metal where it causes embrittlement. Hydrogen molecules are so small they basically seep through everything.
@Tim Rock-It Saunders You're clueless if you're comparing hydrogen to propane. Hydrogen is VERY different in almost all respects. First of all, hydrogen embrittles metal and is highly reactive, but propane is not. Due to the hydrogen molecule's small size, it seeps through virtually all materials. Propane does not. You're also dealing with extremely high pressures with hydrogen (7500-10,000PSI) whereas propane remains liquid at relatively low pressures (100-200PSI). Propane can easily be contained in steel tanks. Hydrogen cannot since it embrittles steel. HFC vehicles also require batteries. Fuel cells cannot be ramped up and down quickly. Fuel cell stacks also have a limited lifetime. The PEMFC membrane degrades. After 5000 cycles, for example, the Mirai has lost 60% of the electrochemical surface area in the fuel cell. (www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261919319786). Hydrogen filling stations are also very expensive. Unless they liquify hydrogen at 20C above absolute zero, they can only handle between 50-67 cars per day. The cost of a hydrogen filling station is around $2M. The cost of a Tesla supercharger stall is under $50K. Hydrogen is not very dense volumetrically, so it is very expensive to transport significant quantities to many locations. The equipment needed at a filling station is and always will be expensive. There's no way to avoid the cost of compressors and cooling equipment. And yes, hydrogen leaks are very much a thing. There have been numerous fires at hydrogen filling stations. Hydrogen leaks. Just look at how many rocket launches have had to be scrubbed due to hydrogen leaks, most recently with the SLS. And hydrogen also presents a big problem for the environment. If 5% of it leaks, not an unreasonable amount, it will significantly interfere with the breakdown of methane in the atmosphere, a very potent greenhouse gas. Hydrogen interacts with OH radicals in the atmosphere that would otherwise break down methane. The only reason there are any hydrogen filling stations is due to heavy subsidies. Hydrogen vehicles are also significantly more expensive than BEV vehicles. And as far as batteries breaking down? There are plenty of Teslas hitting 300,000 miles on their original battery packs. The cost of operating a HFC vehicle always will be significantly more than the cost of a BEV. Electricity is virtually everywhere and BEV vehicles are very efficient in how they use it. The cost of batteries has also dropped significantly and continues to fall rapidly. BEVs can already drive to most places in the country and the infrastructure is expanding rapidly. The only advantage a HFC vehicle has is that it can be filled in 7 minutes. It can't be charged at home, and filling it costs significantly more than charging a BEV, some of which can be charged to 80% in 20 minutes and that time is dropping.
I like the ease of filling it up..in Oregon ..on 97 a main north and south route also a main east route to Idaho there are very few charging stations that i know of. Without depending on technology it's easy to find a gas station but if one wants to find a charging station you have to depend on technology..and they aren't always close to a highway. I like the idea of hydrogen.ndue to the fact they are at gas stations. so pretty cool I think
That's some really nice noise in the background (not talking about sirens). ❤
If there was a person in line behind you, he/she would have to wait 10 to 15 minutes for the pump to get to the right pressure, before being able to use it. That's an important disadvantage of H2
Pretty cool, it will only get better as time goes on
Hydrogen is very energy dense and is an excellent alternative fuel source. Japanese scientists are developing inexpensive ways to produce H. Expect Japanese automobile manufacturers to continue developing hydrogen fueled cars for domestic use. They may one day convince Americans of H's viability through large scale proof of concept. In the meantime, we're full speed ahead with EV's.
For a full tank how much costed? Can you pls cover safety aspect as well.
Yes it all comes down to infrastructure. Currently there are no H stations in my state and the closest EV charging station is 20 miles away. Neither are present in my home town. We do however have multiple gas stations.
$60 with heavy subsidies from California here. There's no way this ever works out economically. Without that we'll never get stations across the US.
In my daily 4 mile commute to the freeway, I pass 7 gas stations, zero hydro, and zero EV chargers. So here in a 4 million people populated city of Phoenix AZ, there is also no infrastructure.
Have the grid connection at home ? Because almost every one does in the civilized world . Most ev users just plug in at home chargers are only need when on a road trip.
I want a plug-in hybrid hydrogen/ battery car. Considering propulsion is electric in a hydrogen car, and there is a small battery as well, just increasing battery size to give 50 to 60 miles of plugin range, before hydrogen tank kicks in would be great. Use plugin power for daily commute and hydrogen for longer trips.
if only there was a refueling station...
I do believe they have that, just for the purpose of regenerative braking. I don't think they can "back-feed" a fuel cell, to store energy. The battery isn't huge, but rather like a Toyota Prius, with a range of about 5 miles. With those huge Hydrogen pressure cylinders, there's no space for a big battery.
in my area where we live--we have many work vans--chevy, gm,ford, etc, that are /have been running on lp/propane gas for many years. they say it burn cleaner but doesnt make quite the horsepower as gas does--not a ton less but a little less than petrol makes. if we really wanted to get away from dino power we could--honestly--i dont want to run anything but gas in all my cars, trucks, lawn equipement. my tractor burns diesel already so.......
As an Engineer who has registered designs for compressed air systems 125 psi, pressurized water systems 400 psi and designed natural gas piping, this scares me. Our standard in Canada is TSSA which references ASME standards. We are talking 70 MPa or 10,000 psi, in the hands of consumers. Obviously this passed the ASME requirements.
I was actually interested in the actual cost for this fill up and the $/per mile breakdown. It's available but the station can't produce the hydrogen without electric power. At least you can have some emergency gasoline or diesel safely stored at home when electricity isn't available at these stations during a power grid outage or crisis such as a a earthquake, hurricane, or typhoon.
You can even store power for your EV and even make a little yourself in case of an outage compared to hydrogen.
They could have a real winner here. It's like a master piece puzzle coming together..solar panels/wind farms/dam power constantly charging huge batteries that power the electricity needed to create the hydrogen out of the air and put into tanks as fuel for cars!! License the technology in Tesla cars to recharge the battery from different motions such as breaking. We can achieve the perfect car! It's not a full electric car either like Tesla, I certainly believe we will get to perfect hydrogen cars BUT, it will be a consortium of technologies to achieve it, hopefully the techs necessary to complete the perfect car come soon..
backup generators at the station
@@h8GW I can also dump my old EV batteries into the ocean to help kickstart new coral reefs!
@@neal-stewart834 include solar panels
$60 for only 260 miles is very very expensive! thanks for the viedeo, I had no idea hydrogen cost this much.
Yes, because its hard to make, and there is not too many companies around that make hydrogen... However, it is expanding. A lot of companies switching to hydrogen powered vehicles like buses, forklifts, trucks, heavy duty vehicles etc. Matter of the time, when we will see more and more companies going to make hydrogen, and the price will go down. Matter of the time. Id say petrol and diesel powered cars are the gen 1 cars, Electric cars are then gen 2, and the gen 3 will be the hydrogen ones. I think it is way better than EV cars and better than petrol/diesel cars, and i would love to own a hydrogen powered car. Maybe later, hopefully.
Hydrogen is hard to make ? 😂😂😂😂😂 bro wake up
@@dymon1997I think they were referring to the tremendous amount of energy to generate it rather than difficulty as such.
It will never be more efficient than an EV either. So if you're making the hydrogen from splitting water with electricity, it's better to just put it into a battery with that same electricity.
You can thank the Fossil Fuel Lobby for that one.
Not sure why you’re using Celsius unless your travelling overseas although -40C is is -40F anyway so its an easy conversion.
How could be the release of 10k psi inside that car on a accident?
As an Aussie the noises are common as we use LPG here to fuel cars, mostly taxis now as fallen out of favour for average user as cost benefit fell off a cliff.
It’s about half the price, but at least 40% savings. Issue is tank inspections and other stuff. With modifications efficiency however can be substantially improved. Thinking about it tbh.
Yes, I remember your idiotic government promoting the savings of LPG use, and then doubled the taxes on it.
Thank you for this video! Fascinating. I see the potential downsides-given American history with hydrogen (Hindenburg) I suspect the noise associated with hydrogen, and the complicated freezing connection will delay widespread acceptance of these vehicles. Upside-can be filled up quickly similar to petrol.
as I remember the hindenburg sported a swastika on the tail fin so it's probably German at that and it burned also because they shalacked the outside with some kind of flammable paint
Thanks for doing this. Someone has to do it.
1:55 vent pole? i believe that is known as a LED parking lot light. just not working on this night or will turn on when needed.
Might have missed this in the video but if this is renewable at the gas station the price seems pretty high at $60 for 260 miles. Will these prices go down after the equipment is paid for? I've never even heard of hydrogen cars before so this is extremely interesting just trying to do the math on cost of travel.
He doesn't know. This station recieved hydrogen in liquid form by trucks, and guess what runs those trucks. ☹️
Yea it’s cool it’s fast but electric cost like 20 percent off that
At the current price of gas the price is equal. Gas will only go up in price, and Hydrogen will only go down as technology advances. Green Hydrogen is the future, no pollution.
@@onequestion2059 I'm just wondering when it's only hydrogen power then what stops the same companies from hiking up that price?
No it won't. Gas prices stay low because we the ppl demand it. There aren't enough ev or hydrogen cars (or tree huggers) to over power the masses with gas cars. And yes big oil will become big hydrogen if it is the only choice. When the numbers are good with alternative fuels ppl will transition to them. No amount of environmental bull shit is going to help. In fact it hurts the argument for them. If there is 1 thing most ppl know it's that the movement is full of shit and lie constantly.
I like my 2015 Subaru. I paid cash for it new. It has been averaging 33 mph and I drive mostly around town. It only has 23,000 miles on it because I don’t drive much. We get some snow in winter here so AWD with winter tires is nice.
I will also stick with my Subaru AWD, however the sales people at Subaru told me that Subaru expects to go to all electric in just a few years ??? I will hate to see that day as I love the Boxer engine and will keep mine for many years to come.
And that cost 60.29. Which translates to 4.31 cents per Kg (2.2 lbs). So 123 Ibs of hydrogen. If compared to a gas powered vehicle say at 3.50 a gallon (I'm in Texas 😎 ), and say 22 miles per gallon is the est mpg, then 17 gallons would cost 59.50 dollars and 374 miles on gas compared to 260 miles on hydrogen, I would estimate one could travel 9.75% further on gas over hydrogen. This is just an estimate. Now gas in California gas is much more costly so it would become more comparable. Also, being in Texas, hydrogen sould be much cheaper here as well. So, I assume Hydrogen would be more comparable in both places. It sounds like they did their pricing for hydrogen to be comparable to the cost of gasoline depending on location. That would make sense in the beginning. I suspect the cost of hydrogen as a fuel will continue to drop in price. I just see the need to stop more often on hydrogen and city driving would be a completely different comparison. A trip from Galveston,Texas to LA, California, (1597 miles), translates to stopping 6.14 times for Hydrogen, (using the figures above), and 4.27 times for gas. Cost wise about 110 to 120 dollars more in hydrogen today, based on the skewed cost of California hydrogen vs Texas gasoline. I would expect with an abundance of hydrogen and more stations becoming common place, that pricing should really drop over time.
Would have thought that a H2 cassette could be like a 3 second F1 pit-stop.
We had a Marai when we lived in Newport Beach. Two options to fill one of which was always and mean permanently out of service leaving UCI as the only option. Sometimes there would be 10-20 cars waiting.. Sometimes they were working on the station so out of service and sometimes we’d go around midnight to get filled up. The technology is fussy, the quick coupler connector was a pita and we learned pretty fast to use a glove to prevent ice burns . It was always super expensive but Toyotas card was great . Fueling stations were really limited to so cal . like you said ,50% of the stations were always offline .
Gloves anyone?
Sacrifice please for new toy
It needs investments
From what I have read many of the electric recharging stations are also off line when you want them.
For a truck with a giant capacity fuel tank to drive across the country, do you think a giant hydrogen tank is cheaper to build than a giant battery bank? 🤔
Wow! Great information. Obviously, infrastructure (for refilling tanks) is what needs to take place before people will begin buying and using Hydrogen powered vehicles. I'm guessing you are right about trucks being the first major users because their filling infrastructure will be more planned and assured for them, based on their regular routes. Maybe, if you're interested, you could give a short "thumbnail" on "the plan" to generate and distribute hydrogen to these stations? So far your video is the first description of hydrogen vehicles I've seen on You tube. Many thanks!
You need a company like Tesla that wants to take the risk to invest in their own network
@@s0012823 Hydrogen for cars is both very dangerous and totally pointless. Battery EVs are where it's at. Nobody apart from Toyota bothers with this nonsense.
What is the average distance to a filling station and what happens when the ambient temperature is minus 20 to minus 40 Celsius. When will it be possible to fill up at home?
At HOME? As SOON as YOU build a hydrogen factory in YOUR garage!!
It never gets that cold in California.
Well, the technology is good but need a huge more time to compete with electric cars. I have a Toyota Rav4 Prime Hybrid Plugin since june 2023 and the MPG is around 88-96. At this moment (November 2023) I just add gas 2 times ($34 dollars to fill the tank) because most of the time the car use solar energy to charge. One other point like you said is the astronomic cost of this hydrogen stations (from 2 - 4 million dollars).
You had problems with the pump because you didn't follow the instuctions. It says to connect it to your car. You try but fail and then see a flashing light so you select your grade before you have it successfully connected. LOL. Just do what the pump tells you and it will work better.
Usual mistake made by impatient people -, as they say "when all else fails read the instructions!" 😄
Don't have any problems filling up my 05 civic 👍👍👍👍
Hydrogen vehicles are fine if you live within a 30 mile radius of San Francisco or about a 40 mile radius of Los Angeles because there are a grand total of 4 stations located anywhere else in the State.
What about in Orange county and San Diego county?
I agree about the lack of stations. Orange county has a bunch too. San Diego only has one!!!! They are going to build a few more but that is not great at all.
In Europe it‘s a bit better in Germany and the Netherlands elsewhere you have practically no hydrogen filling stations and new ones are built at a rate of 10-20 per year (for the whole of Europe)…
@@rmcfoy44 Gotta use up all the money from fuel card within 6 yrs
@@karlgunterwunsch1950 I don't know if Toyota will continue with the Mirai but I am enjoying it fully. I hope they can turns thing around but without the infrastructure it would be hard.
So what is the cost per mile on Hydrogen vs cost per mile with electricity, compared to gasoline mpg cost? Curious.. . I just saw a video where a 2018 Hyndi Ioniq battery replacement is $15k not including insulation.
I heard that you better be filing the tank within so many minutes after opening the cap or you have to start all over again?
Being from nj and a fan of led zeppelin, I remember the hindenburg. I can appreciate the possibilities of hydrogen fuel but I would want blast panels like the Abrams tank has with its ammo compartment.
I don't know why, but I was frightened the entire time he was filling the tank.
Gasoline is pretty combustible too you know. One of the main ingredients in Nepalm too.
Don't know if u guys ever heard of Stanley Meyer b4
Hydrogen blast is up a regular fuel tank blows at all directions unless you are setting above the hydrogen tank you are safe not so for gas tanks.
Hydrogen burned in the Hindenberg. Gasoline vapor explodes. Hydrogen is lighter than air and dissipates rapidly.
Did you ever do a breakdown comparison of hydrogen vs. gas cost for the miles you drove and what you had to pay?
Real rough calc, it was ~$60 usd to fill and he said the car projected range of 260 miles.
@@rob6870 dang that seems a bit expensive. i drive a 2019 camry xse and i get an average of 480 miles with 14.5 gallons of gas. average gas price is about 4.30, so i spend about~$60 for a full tank. mind you, the 480 miles are mainly highway miles
How much of that cost was road tax or whatever other taxes have been put in place? The cost seems incredibly high for a fill-up.
I am interested in the cost since Toyota subsidizes it for new owners. It appeared by your video of the station screen it cost $68 for a 270 range. A Tesla can achieve a greater range for less than $30.
So how is the low temperature achieved?
I haven't read all the replies. But, the rule is, as more cars fill up. It gets slower and slower. The nozzle starts to freeze to the cars nipple. Eventually, you'll have to wait for others to fill up and thaw in between. TFL did a great review on filling up Mirai. It took 45 minutes for him to get filled up.
Maybe at some point someone will have to come up with a way of warming the nozzle.
@@Rhaspun Everyone pack their wife's hair dryer.
@@RhaspunSome form of an auto warming on the pump head would be smart with an auto shutoff at achieves temperature, Also with a way so it won’t over heat, Limiter.
Nozzle freezing is no big deal since all it needs is a warming element inside it.
@@incognito-yj4gu Minus-300° coming out of the nozzle.. The hose isn't the problem. It's the nozzle tip coming in contact with the car's intake. You'll need a flame thrower. 😂
You need to fillup in the same spot if someone just filled up in front of you. I believe that station needs to repressurise and will make you wait 15min before you can get 4.5 min fill again.
2:47 huh!?! liquified gases stays at constant pressure no matter what the tank level is( at tonstant T) unless filling hose and tank is badly insulated Temp and pressure will rise looks like a scam, do 35 and 70 kpsi are the same price? is price by psi or by liquid volume?
"the nozzle is quite scary looking"😂 It's a nozzle. 😂😂