10 VS 1 CNC laser!!! - £3000 Gweike cloud pro 50w against 10 x £300 10w lasers - Critical review!
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Watch Joshua De lisle AWCB walk you through the creation process with his welded and hand forged works of Art and Luxury items.
In this episode we test the 50w Gweike cloud pro and all its features and hypothosise running a laser cutting business against ten 10w cheap diode lasers. We look at the inbuilt camera, included extraction and what a cnc co2 laser can and connot do compared to a cnc diode laser.
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I hope you guys got a lot out of this one. If there are any questions or would like more information to be expanded on within the follow up videos then please do let me know in the comments. If you are interested in this machine and you want to support the channel at the same time then here are some affiliate links for you: www.gweikecloud.com/?ref=joshuadelisle Charity Raffle Any cubic cobra neo 3D printer: raffall.com/334360/enter-raffle-to-win-new-3d-anycubic-printer-hosted-by-joshua-de-lisle My designs/comissioning: www.etsy.com/uk/shop/DelisleDesign My Box designs: www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1329352229/hinged-box-designs-10-sizes-for-3mm-6mm?click_key=f8a3f0ac7491d5133eade97012937498c72c2844%3A1329352229&click_sum=ac478e3c&ref=shop_home_active_1
You can see the _visible_ emissions from the laser, but the 9000-10000nm infrared is blocked by ordinary soda lime glass. What is the expected lifetime and replacement cost of the laser tube?
@@WaffleStaffelthat's good to know. 2-3 years apparently or 10k hours. A RF tube lasts about 6 years. Cheers J
Nice to see someone being realistic on pricing!
Lol it's demoralising though. Its the best way to cancel an idea before trying to waste your time making a business with it. CNC work makes pricing a lot easier as you can get manufacture timing whilst it's still a drawing and not waste too much of that time otherwise in prototyping. Cheers J
@@joshuadelisle IMO it makes you think harder about the types of product you make and the markets you enter. Too many garage/backbedroom sellers undercutting then when they outgrow can't afford workshops. It's not a race to get into, unless you're just testing the water for a few weeks. It takes longer but building into a niche is a better objective.
Great video as usual. A few of pieces of potentially useful information: 1. The color of a diode laser tells the wavelength. If you see a red color the wavelength is near 700nm (or longer). A blue laser runs near 400 nm. 2. Glass is not transparent at 10.6 micron (same as acrylic). The glass top of the laser in your review is almost as opaque as a steel top. A stainless top and/or sheet in the bottom of the machine would provide essentially two mirror like surfaces (why the laser will not affect stainless). The danger of reflections escaping the machine would go up significantly. Keep on posting!
Thank you. Maybe a plain matt oxide steel would be ok, like just normal steel with mill scale? Non reflective but could save damaging the trays powder coating maybe... Cheers J
Don't know if you follow 'Under Dunn' (also known as 'Aging Wheels'), but he literally just did a review on the qweike 2 days ago. (He couldn't pronounce 'qweike' properly, so just called it 'Gwyneth'! 😆)
Fantastic review! Most interesting! Well done Josh!
Thank you so much. Cheers J
Good video, I enjoyed the analysis of costings etc.
Thank you so much. Cheers J
Great video dude. Fantastic review, thanks 👍👍
Thank you so much
Finding a niche market for your product is the key, much like the plastic printers i.e. Galactic Armory who makes Star Wars helmets and body pieces. He has a warehouse set up with printers running day and night ,all he has to do is load programs ,keep an eye on material feeds and finished product.
That's the dream, to find that niche. Cheers J
i think you are just brilliant, thanks again mate. Henry
You're very kind Henry. I'm glad you enjoy watching what I bring. Cheers J
Josh, love your videos. I learn something every one, like that diode lasers need replacing more often than CO2 lasers. Also diode lasers wont do clear acrylic. Thank you. Always a joy
Thank you so much for watching and supporting my work. All the very best. Cheers J
I think he might have mixed up the 2 types of laser. C02 Lasers last 5-8000 Hours, a Diode Laser lasts 25-50000 Hours
I’ve the same chamfering tool which I made a small table for so I can mount it upside down like a router table. It’s great for doing small parts. Moving the part rather than the tool.
Good idea. Cheers J
If you regulate down the pneumatic chamfering tool it will still afford a good finish but will still cut really well, I set mine around 50 p.s.i. This makes it more pleasurable to use, even with hearing protection.
Good tip. Cheers J
CO2 tube lifespan is 1/10 that of a diode head. CO2 lifespan is between 3-10k hours depending on power and quality, diode heads have a lifespan of 25-100k hours regardless of power but depending on quality.
A lot of good ideas and interesting calculations ...Great job Josh I watching your channel to improve my technical English also ... you speaking very clear and understandable ..thank you ! BTW when the shaver test on your channel ? :D greetings from PL Al
Thank you so much. I almost did do a video on shaving once when I forged my own cut throught razor. at the time I didn't have a good enough shapening system but I may have another attempt at. cheers J
@@joshuadelisle I have a medieval sword at home (copy of Damascus steel) very sharp ... and it doesn't work well :) everything is ahead of you :D good luck
I'm really liking these business- focused videos. I have a business idea, but every time I start calculating costs, I just can't make it viable, especially if someone else jumps in on the idea. The 'fire-damaged' bed here is a great example - the market for people willing to spend £150 on a doll's bed must be pretty limited, and adding finishing would probably add another £20 in time & materials. 😢
Yes that's absolutely right. Its important to scrap a project if it's not viable. If I can reduce material costs and cutting time then it would make a big difference. But I don't think this size is viable, if it's 1/2 scale and half the material thickness it could possibly be a lot more viable as the laser can cut even faster on thinner material and reduced size of part. Its an art to find the sweet spot of value for money to the customer and profitability to the maker. Cheers J
You might be able to pull off that price if customers would be able to have it made to their own specs and design. That however would add complexity to the process, thus raising costs. So many great ideas are just not viable for any business looking to make money. Never give up on those ideas though, write them down in detail and maybe someday the technology or material might come along that will make it all work! 😉👍
Hi, great content and presentation. What nobody seems to be addressing in the LED/Co2 argument is the lifespan of the Co2 tube - specifically, the fact that Co2 tubes wear out over time ...even if you don't use them! Obviously, if you are using one a lot to make products then you'll factor in the cost of replacement but if you want one of these for your 'Man Cave' as I do then a tube that lasts maybe 5 years at £3k is an expensive toy. LED laser units are only being worn out when on. Any idea if replacement heads are available? Will
Thank you. tubes and diodes heads are replaceable. I'm now understanding that the diode tech is advancing so much its making tubes nearly obsolete appart from the desired wave length. Diodes now last much longer, are increasing in power availabillity, and cut staighter and thicker material without the need to focus. cheers J
As always, very informative. Btw can you make a CO2 work with a grbl board?
most co2 lasers are Ruida and not GRBL because it's industry standard but I can't see why they couldn't be run on GRBL. Cheers J
LIke the video , very comprehensive. To answer the question The cheap "Chinese K40" co2 lasers don't use Ruida because of the cost of the controller.if you do it yourself it is not to hard to modify a "K40" type laser, there are quite a few who have done it on youtube. If you know what an Arduino is you can even use one of those or there are several commercial boards that you just unplug the Chinese controller and drop in a G code (GRBL) compatible one. it is not for the faint hearted and you will spend a lot of time tinkering but it can be done. I think there was at lease one commercial CO2 laser as well but can't remember the name. the nice thing about this one is it is self contained, the cheap ones you need an external pumped water system for cooling and i know of 2 locally ( UK midlands) that froze and broke the tube in the last freeze. If you want it for a hobby then convert one, if you want one to run a business then by a good quality one so you can just get on and make money.
@@kevinsstuff5488 thank you those are great tips. I'm in the midlands and that's a good point on frost. I built my power hammer with an Arduino controller for the sensor and adjustable reciprocation tuning. I would like to play with Arduinos a lot more for a few other projects such as upgrading my CNC plasma table. Cheers J
Having discovered that there is far more money in making videos about Chinese products than his own creations, the creator rose to the pulpit and preached the word of the Chinese marketing machine. The good people of the West, thrilled at the prospect of acquiring new products, worshipped the word of Joshua. Praise be. Only joking, well...
Lol. Well I get to test it out first for you before you spend your hard earned money on risking it's quality and performance because let's face not everything is good from China. I hope these videos help people make an informed decision. Fwi I wasn't paid for this video but I'm hoping having machine like this one will help in future projects. Got a steam turbine, hydraulic press and more sculptures coming soon. Cheers J
I was using a CO2 laser to kiss cut card (for scoring) and cutting the card out - this was to make 3D low poly animal kits. The issue I had was accurate placement of the card - because the card was already printed with things like part numbers. Even using a jig it was always slightly different each run. I am now looking at drag knife cutters which use witness marks to position the cut - the problem is flatbed cutters are pretty expensive and the consumer models like Silhouette are quite slow - If you get offered a chance to review any cheaper makes that would be great. Or if you know of any of the diode laser cutters which use witness marks?
Hi. I'm actually planning on making a vacuum bed that can be inserted into mine. It will basically clamp down anything I put into it especially swade leather which otherwise buckles up and moves around from the air blower. If you're not cutting through you could reference mark a piece of MDF with the laser and use it as a base and even tack some bump stops for repetition. Cheers J
I think lightburn has some method of aligning cuts to reference marks but i haven't done it. Re flatness of paper, as a thought jewellery engraving machines often have a their rotatory cutter on a sprung loaded floating head and a space that slides over the surface keeping the distance constant , so do some plasma cutters. No idea if you could fit something like that to a diode laser? Joshua's idea of a vacuum table, or maybe just a big fan under a honeycomb bed of perforated sheet would also help keep it flat.
I used to use flatbed pen plotters years ago and some of those had "electrostatic hold down" for the paper. basically the bed was a large printed circuit board with interlaced fingers of copper on the back these had a high voltage applied to them and they attracted the paper to the top.
The coolant that this uses, will it freeze if used in unheated garage instead of heated space?
I'm not sure what type is in this, I'll have to check with Gwieke but I'm sure an anti freeze can be added otherwise. Cheers J
When he said "you have to consider if this is worth...(I was like "20 , maybe 30 pounds? ) ... 150 pounds " . I know his math is right, but does anyone pay that much ?
Thank you. Its processing costs like the way I did that stops a project that is unfeasible. If there is no profit, market, or too expensive to be competitive then the next question is why put your time into doing it. Lots of my projects get binned that way which is good because it means I'm not wasting my time going on a dead end. Cheers J
Try looking at the cost of dolls house kits
Ah, but have you seen the Nox? Looks like a budget version without cloud support currently for $1999
Maybe I'll try them out if they're willing to send one over. Cheers J
Maybe I am still living in 1970 but I would be very surprised if you could get anything close to £100. Would you mind giving us an update is a couple of months please?
Yes definitely. I promised Gwieke I would make 3 videos, whether it's positive or negative is up to me. I'm going to use it to make products to sell and I'll share my experience. Cheers J
Good stuff 😀 Any updates on the steam generator?
Coming soon. I've just got a sponsor for it which is fantastic which means I can afford to invest more time into it. Cheers J
@@joshuadelisle Great, thank you, I've been really looking forward to that one😀😀
Great video, but I think your workshop hourly price is off by a factor of two! £70 would be the usual base costing, and that's before the crazy inflation of the last few years
You might be right. I think if I had a bigger workshop with a higher rent and rates that would definitely be the case. Fortunately I'm able to work at home with minimal overheads but I understand that's not an option for most people. Cheers J
hey
what app do you use for designing?
I use SketchUp pro for most of my work. Its not cheap though. Cheers J
Problem is, that it's still too weak for sheetmetal, to cut 2mm thick steel you need a laser with about 500W or more
Yep. I use my plasma for that though. Much cheaper than a laser.
I appreciate all the effort you must put into these vids but sadly I am only interesting in metal work, so they are wasted on me.
I understand. Thank you for sticking by. I have lots of metalworking videos coming also. It would seem I have gained more subscribers from other areas other than my metalworking which both good but sad at the same time. Cheers J
If you don't have a cnc plasma cutter and only have a handheld one, laser cutters are good for cutting templates to plasma cut around. They can also be used to "mock up" or try "design ideas, maybe to show to potential customers, without committing to the effort and cost of using metal.
@@kevinsstuff5488 very good point. I may do a video on doing just that. Cheers J
14:30 I think you pricing is way off. So it took 1.5 hours to cut that? And dont forget it will be flat packet so buyer will build it.. I think in 1 hour you could make at least 5 of those
Everything including beveling the edges and loading and unloading was 1.5 hours. The price is right but not value for money so far. Cheers J