Ep. 299 | 30-06 Springfield vs .270 Winchester - The Superior Deer Cartridge Is?
For years there was one cartridge question a deer hunter had to ask themselves. .270 or 30-06? Both have strong merits. Is there a right answer? Mark Boardman and Ryan Muckenhirn sent rounds down range into gel to tackle this highly debated cartridge comparison. The results might surprise you. Frankly, neither of them like the outcome. And that’s where this podcast begins.
00:00 - Intro
1:21 - Mark's History with the Cartridge
3:52 - Lead - Ammo Selection for the test
7:46 - Mark and Ryan's History with the Cartridges
22:52 - Lead .270 - The Results
31:28 - Lead .30-06 - The Results
38:04 - Copper .270 - The Results
47:41 - Copper .30-06 - The Results
51:05 - Recap and Closing Thoughts
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Let's be honest. The 125-220 grain load range in the .30-06 has a lot of boutique rounds in it. You have a real, useful range of 150, 165, and 180 grain loads for deer and elk. The .270 deer loads are 130, 140, and 150 grain. Honestly, the .270 doesn't NEED anything other than a 130 grain bullet.
any thing other than the 130 especially with new bullet designs, all copper, partitions, bonded, etc....so who has hunted grizzly bear with the 270 except Jack O'Conner ? Or does ?
@@milboltnutI haven’t, but I wouldn’t hesitate to. It’s been my go to for 25 years and that’s unlikely to change in the next 25.
130 grain is the only bullets my model 700 will shoot consistent. I bought it new in 1997 and never looked elsewhere for a hunting rifle.
I've reloaded both the 130gr. and 150gr. Speer "Grand Slam".... Both do the job out to 200 yards. Beyond that, the 130gr trajectory wins out. Since I hunt mostly open range in eastern Colorado and Wyoming, the 130gr. remains my choice.
I have plans for a Swedish moose hunt in the not tooooooo far future that involves my Steyr Mannlicher Schoenauer in .270. I have a 160 partition loaded to near SAAMI max that should do just fine. I really like loading for the 270 Win as you can either load rifle pressures of ~56k or you can ramp it up to near magnum pressures of 64k PSI. I do want to try the newish Nosler Accubond Long Rande 150 grain and see what my rifle thinks of it. Sometimes, the 130 isn't quite enough.
Since the podcast was titled the best DEER cartridge, I think the .270 Win for the win. If they said the best overall or best large game cartridge, it’s the 30-06 all day long. Both are great, but overall the 30-06 is more versatile.
Except, In the other podcast recently, the team seemed to do the same thing with favoritism for 30-06, or .308... For heavy duty options, But for deer, the 65 creed kept being mentioned instead.
I gotta go with the 270. Flatter shooting, less recoil, more than enough energy for anything from Texas whitetail to northern mule deer, AT REASONABLE DISTANCES.
It’s enough for elk at reasonable distances.
What is up?
I would have liked to see the results of a 150 grain bullet in each of these cartridges. Both for trajectory and performance in the gel. Maybe at some later date?
270 would win. Better bc bullet
@@queensryche230Better, way better SD, too.
Post from Australia, both cartridges very popular here, 30/06 has the advantage on Sambar deer(300-500kg), brumbie(wild horse) and buffalo(800kg). I have used 270W on donkey, brumbie, dingo, goat, fox, all ways amazed the hitting power and penetration on the 270W 130grn with Cor Lokt & Win PP. In summary 30/06 for bigger game, 270W slightly flatter trajectory for long shots. Both cartridges excellent on pigs, could be too much, a lot of pigs are shot in Australia with 223, 243, 308, 30/30, 44mag, 357mag.
This might be the greatest Australian comment of all time.
I started deer hunting with my Dad's .30-06 with 180 gr bullets back in 1968. At the time I weighed 125 lbs soaking wet, and the recoil was killing me. I developed a flinch so bad that I got the yips shooting my .22 rimfire. My Dad subscribed to Outdoor Life, and the first article I would look for every month was Jack O'Connor's. He sold me on the .270. It was several years before I could afford my Remington Model 700 .270. I could (and still can) shoot that gun all day, with 130 gr bullets. The faster bullet also did a much better job on whitetails. My Dad still stuck with his .30-06 shooting 220 gr soft points. He was the best shot I ever saw, but we spent a lot of time trailing wounded deer back then. After seeing the performance of my .270, he switched to 180 gr bullets, and eventually 150's. When he shot, stuff dropped. As an aside, I still have Jack's books "Complete Book Of Shooting" and "Complete Book Of Rifles and Shotguns". They're probably out of print now, but you can still find used books on the Internet machine.
For 40 years I've said something I heard a man much older than me say and I feel compelled to repeat it - Every American hunter should own a 30-06, even if you hunt with it very little. I have one getting a new barrel right now. I am very fond of all of my 270s
To me, real versatility isn't about how many different projectiles are available. Especially since you would have to re-zero for a different loading. The 130 TTSX can take a elk out to 300+ or a coyote to 500+. One load for 99.9% is both efficient and versatile.
Yep, and different bullet weights warrant different rifling twists... 100gr-220gr.
I love my 270's for everything but the 06 is great for BIG bears . In all my years of hunting, you don't need anything bigger than the 30/06 for north American game . I use the 270's cause it kicks less and my father bought it for me before he passed away.
You can definitely run modern, lighter bullets in faster twist barrels without any problems at reasonable ranges, and as long as you've got click turrets it's easy to switch between zeroes of established loads. In my 6.5 Creedmoor I use 144gr target bullets, 120gr copper hunting bullets, and 95gr V-Max bullets for predators all out of an 8 twist and no more than a handful of clicks between zeroes
Try the 117gr hammer hunter bullets. Around 59 gr 4831sc smoking fast and flat.
@@atomicwedgie8176I have a 700 that will shoot both 150s and 220s into an inch @ 100 if I do my part. Never shot lighter than 150s.
I have both, my 270 and I inherited my fathers 30.06. I like them both, just depends where you are hunting. I live in northern Wisconsin and the 06 is much better here because of distance is less and much more stuff to shoot thru. I have hunted In Montana and shot several Elk with my .270 at long distance. They are both great calibers.
Browning is actually making a fast twist 270 in the x bolt
I’m just waiting for 1 to hit my local gun store. Burger has load data for the 170gr EOL going over 2800 ft./s.
It's .270 for me but only because my father bought me one for deer hunting when I was 13 and I stuck with it.
Keep it simple....own both by several manufacturers....with tons of ammo. Great discussion.
Come on Mark do the 300 win mag vs 300 wsm
🤠 INFORMATION UPDATE: Regarding the Faster Twist Barrels for the 270 Winchester in other Factory Rifles, You do have other rifle options Now! Howa makes it in a 1 in 9 twist barrel, Savage in 1 in 8 1/2 barrel, and I believe both Winchester and the "New" Remington Arms Company (Among "Others") is putting on a 1 in 8 twist barrel now! Browning's X-Bolt is in a 1 in 7 1/2 Twist Barrel too! Lots more options are on the way (comming soon, along with more heavy bullet options)! 🤗
It’s about time! That took a great caliber and just made it even better with the faster twist barrels! Having owned a whole lot of 270’s over the last 60+ years most in pre64’s and model 54 as well as the 721 Remingtons. I have owned hundreds in Brownings Weatherbys Noslers Savages and my favorite mausers it seems like they would have thought of this long before now! But what do I know I just keep on buying them being a collector and rifle recover addict🤔😳😂
This is true, and very cool, however its worth joting that I've heard of a few recent cases of people that tried some of the new high BC bullets in the standard 270 twist rate, and apparently they still stabilise just fine. So while it's great that fast twist 270s are becoming a thing, don't think you're limited if you can only get your hands on a "standard" 270 rifle.
I have both but my go to rifle is winchester model 70 in 30/06 .
One of the very best for hunting!
25-06! Just got mine to the range for the first time and it's absolutely a blast!
The 25-06 is an INSANELY overlooked round! I actually think the .270 is a little better all-around rifle, but for deer and antelope here in Montana, I think they are both excellent.
I swear… the vortex nation podcast is my favorite channel on KZhead to watch PERIOD. Your back and forth banter is the best.
The best answer to this argument is to own both.
I own 25-06 / 270 and the 30-06. The 25-06 and 270 get used the 30-06 is a safe queen. But so are my two 338 win mags and my 300 Rum. But when I was hunting Elk all the time I loaded that Rum like what Ryan was saying I’d load it with a 165 grain Barnes X at 3450fps and it was devastating on Elk out to 500 yards. I never wanted to shoot farther than that. But a 270 wins the usefulness category in my opinion over the 30-06. Not that it’s more lethal but that it goes out hunting while my 06s sit at home in the safe. Deer hunting up to Elk my 25-06 is close to perfect!
Maybe a 7mm comparison??? 7mm-08, 280 AI, 7 PRC and Ryan's absolute favorite..... 7 Rem Mag.
My first rifle was an 06 but now I have the 270 and I love it. I have many rifles now and honestly the 270 can do a lot. I think the 30-06 is fantastic, but I just don't see a need for one in my safe. I have plenty of other stuff but not that, but I do have a 270.
My 1st long rifle was a .270, American Ruger and it shoots 3/4 MOA at 100 yards. I love it!
I have been shooting a Browning A-Bolt in 280 Remington since the mid 80's. I have always handloaded 160gr bullets. From small deer to Red deer. From small pigs to large pigs. One bullet, one powder, one primer, one rifle. Since the disappearing reloading supplies, I purchased a Savage Axis in 30-06. Walmart and my local Gun shops always had '06 ammo of some kind on the shelf. The '06 is my backup to the 280 during hard times.
Ryan, I’ve owned 3 270’s… rebarreled all three of them. 338/06AI, 280 & 25/06AI
You just proved the versatility of the cartridge and how to recycle it! 😂
As always, a great video, and time invested in giving us the information. The criteria was established, the data was collected...both of you are emotionally involved with the 30cal, and that skewed the outcome of an honest decision. These types of videos are the best content on the internet, thank you.
270 is king
man, i love this kind of stuff. i worked in gun stores for 14 years,. talked about stuff like this all the time.
I have owned and love both of them . If I could only have 1 I'd go with the 270. Best rifle I have ever owned .
For Deer I would rather have a .270 Win. I hunted with one for several years and it performed perfect on Deer & Antelope for Me. But it’s also the only rifle I have sold as my bolt action jammed and I lost confidence in the rifle but not the cartridge. Being in my 20’s and with Magnum Fever I had to have a .264 Win Mag because Winchester promoted it as the Ultimate Western Deer and Antelope cartridge.
I grew up shooting a 270 and I currently own one. It’s a tikka and I love it for deer. Shot the buck in my profile pic with it with 130 sst. However, I do think for larger game though there is better choices and that’s why I own another tikka in Ryan’s favourite cartridge……. The 7 rem mag. Lol. I sing the praises of the 30-06 and do recommend it but at the time I liked the 7 mag better. I shoot 160 federal trophy bonded out of it (which I can’t get anymore unfortunately) and also 150 grain Barnes ttsx now as it’s going to be my new choice after the federals are used up. I will save face though Ryan, if I wasn’t so invested in the 7 mag I would choose the 7 prc. For how much I shoot, money at hand and investment not worth switching. I should add a lot of my hunting is done in rolling hills or open fields. 100-400 yard shots are a every day thing. I just won’t shoot a game animal much further then that.
For Ryan, if you haven't already noticed, Nosler makes a 165 grain ABLR for the .270 that requires 1-9" twist, which is not crazy - my 270 WSM is a 9.5, so I'm itching to try these bullets, but I'll have to start reloading (hopefully next year) before I get to test it out. They are longer (I believe they're designed for the 6.8 Western) so they may not fit quite right in the 270 WSM case, but it is tempting, to see if I can find a way to get that bullet seated at the right depth and then get it up to a reasonable velocity - 3 YT channels have tested it in their 270's ( and two of those were WSM), though all three were at least 1800feet ASL, while I'll be shooting/hunting at about 800-1000ft ASL... But my point for mentioning this was that Ryan said he was going to get another 270, and I'm just thinking that's a bullet he might want to try reloading, if he can get into a rifle with a 9 twist, or an 8.5 or so - without getting extreme, to help keep dispersion down (based on what I heard about higher twist rate aka higher rpm can increase the bullet drift (or is at least partially related to the potential for higher dispersion in a faster twist barrel). Nosler also makes a very capable 150 grain ABLR in a 270 that would do beautifully in a WSM. In the end, like Ron Spomer said, it is the bullet causing damage to the appropriate organs, causing massive blood loss, and a drop in blood pressure, that leads to eventual lack of consciousness, and then death. If you miss the vital organs on any animal, regardless of the bullet, it doesn't matter what caliber you're shooting. If you hit the vitals, which just means getting through the hide, with accurate shot placement, the animal will die, and dead is dead. Each bullet accomplishes the same end. Now, I wouldn't use a 270 on a cape buffalo, but I wouldn't use a 30-06 either... And I have a 303 British, which is the Canadian/British equivalent to the 30-06, as it was our war time rifle, and gives us 150-180 grain bullets in the same format as the 30-06. 303 British can kill a lion - though I personally wouldn't want to get that close, it has been done. But there's no ammo for it (and mine was made in London in 1918, for WWI, but she's still sharp...
Certainly enjoy your content. Thank you!
Cartridge choice depends highly on the terrain you typically hunt and the distances you expect to be shooting. I'm 72 and have never owned a .270. My brother was always a 243 and 270 hunter. I have always hunted with a 06 except for the 6 years I lived in Alaska when I used a 300 win mag. My first few Pa deer were bagged with a 30-30.
I’d love to see bonded projectiles vs monolithic. I have had fantastic results using the Federal Terminal Ascent “bonded”. The happy mediums: Terminal Ascent, Swift Scirroco, Accubond, etc. love the caliber and ballistics content. Keep up the good work.
I have both and love both. The 270win was my only deer rifle for years and was my go to even after more arrived. I want to use and promote the 30-06 more, but I use the 25-06, 7mm-08 and 308 more.
I grew up hunting in B.C. Canada. I used a 270 on everything: mulies, moose, elk, black bear... and with light bullets it slayed coyotes by the bushel. The only things i didnt use it on were Grizzly and Bison... but with todays monolithic bullets id have no issues using it on Bison😉
So I've been seeing a few tests with the ol 270 shooting 165gr ABLR out of a 1-10 twist and it stabilizing it very well. Barnes makes the 155gr LRX in .277 caliber 🤔
Front line Rejects, hopeful ballistics and weatherby reloading are all doing it 😊
"Ain't no fool from the old school!" My one gun is the '06 because of the awesome variety of loadings and doesn't require batteries or an app to shoot.
Amazing you guys were able to find a Time Machine and go back to the early 1900’s to make the comparison.
I used to own several boxes of the .30-06 Accelerator rounds, they were extremely wicked!!
I do have both the 30-06 and a .270. Both are Tikka T3x rifles and both are tack drivers. I have used the 30-06 for deer hunting but now use it predominantly for long range target shooting, primarily because I can get match bullets for it. It especially likes the Nosler 168 gr Match but also shoots the 165 gr partition without any change of zero using my hand loaded ammunition. I hunted deer with a 308 until a few years ago. I used the same Nosler match/partition hand loads with the same exact zero at 100 yards, no scope changes required. I have always wanted to try a .270 so ended up buying another Tikka, this time in 270. To be honest I think it's a bit more accurate with 140 gr ammo than the 30-06. I have used it deer hunting for the past few years and with 130 gr Nosler Partitions its one shot and one deer dropped in place not to move again. This can also be done with the 308 or 30-06 but it seems the 270 does it better. My longest shot has been 220 yards and it is lights out for the deer. I like them all, but think that the 270 is becoming my favorite. Thinking about playing with a 6.8 Western, but that is in the future. 🥰
i stopped watching you guys but then i stumbled across this piece of gold. Finally you come to your senses and see some reality...bigger aint always better.
I have many gulf clubs in the gun safe. Depending on where I’m going, how I’m hunting, and the expected shot distance will determine what I bring. I have both a 270 Win and a 30-06 SPRG. Both work amazingly well. All of my shots have been inside of 400 yards, 70% of them actually inside of 50 yards. So, I’m not sure my experience is overly helpful. Virtually anything at 50 yards will take down a deer cleanly. The 270 is less abusive, the 30-06 was purchased for a secondary rifle for an Africa trip. Both rifles are Weatherby Mark V, both topped with Steiner T5Xi scopes. Very apples to apples. For deer…inside of 400, because of recoil alone, I choose the 270 Win every time. However… I usually hunt with a 243 or 7mm-08… the few times I have taken longer shots, staying in the scope was a blessing.
Some of the newer slow-burning powders like RL26 give a significant boost to the 270Win performance with heavier projectiles.
RL26 and modern bullets make the 270 into a monster. I pushed a 150ALR at 3150 with a 24" barrel. I got pressure signs at 3200 and accuracy fell apart. What more would one want?
I have a Savage 110 in 30-06 which is my first gun I bought in 1994. I have taken loads of whitetail over the years. My Father in Law has a Remington 700 in 270 and also has taken a ton of whitetail. He used to use a Remington 7400 in 270 and since he is left handed decided about 7 years ago to buy a left handed rifle. Other than that both drop deer dead without any tracking. I also use a Winchester 30-30 which gets me venison but there is usually a 30 to 40 yard track job involved.
My 270 pushes 145gr eldx bullets at just under 3000 (I think 2985 if memory serves) with a full case of RL19 into about 0.8 MOA or so which is plenty for hunting. My 30-06 seems to like the speer 150gr hot cor at 3000 even with IMR 4064, just over 1 MOA. The whitetail don't seem to care which one they get hit with. If I have a good shooting position/rest and the deer is within 400 yards, it's going down. Then again, I have just as much fun sitting in the thick brush with my pre 64 model 94 and 170gr interlocks at a measly 2250 fps. Deer don't like that one either.
Need to do 6.5prc vs 270.
The 6.5 prc outperformed the 270 with the 130grain at all ranges . Get the prc if your buying a new rifle. The prc family is definitely the future. Those will dominate the scene eventually because there just better in every way at every range
Ehhh, you lose magazine capacity and have a bit more recoil. I don’t think it will catch on as much as you might think. Plus go to hardware stores, gas stations, Walmarts, etc. and try to find 6.5 PRC ammo. You won’t find it. Barrel life is also rough for the 6.5 PRC.
270 Win vs. 6.5 Creedmoor is a more fair comparison. 6.5 PRC is more like a magnum cartridge so compare it to 270 WSM. Of the PRC cartridges, I believe that the 7mm PRC is Goldilocks - not too big, not too small… just right!
@@chipsterb4946 I'd have to agree with your comments. That 7prc is just hitting well above the rest. From point blank. all the way out past 1000. Goldilocks cartridge is a pretty good sum up .
@@chipsterb4946Not exactly. The 270 win and the 6.5 prc are very close ballisticaly to each other out to around 500 yards. The creedmoor doesn't have no where near the performance of the 270 Win. And the 6.5 prc is not on the same level as the 270 wsm. The Wsm flat out stomps the prc.
When I grew up I'd never even heard of a 30-06 or .270. My dad had a Sako L579 Forrester in .243, a Model 70 Westerner .264 Win Mag, a Model 70 in .300 Win Mag and a Model 70 Alaskan .338 Win Mag. When my dad bought me my first rifle it was a Savage 110 in 7mm Rem Mag. The only time that I ever shot a 30-06 was when I borrowed a Remington 742 from my brother in-law.
Next Comparison!!! 6.5PRC vs 270win. Choose these bullets for the testing.... 6.5PRC ,143gr ELD-X vs 270win. 145gr. ELD-X 6.5PRC , 130gr CX vs 270win. 130gr. CX The numbers are nearly identical. Velocity and energy. And weight is spot on the same.
I truly do think that the 6.5 prc is the best "deer" cartridge devised when all deer hunting in North America is taken into consideration. Everything from mulies in Wyoming, to Coues in Arizona, to Whitetails In Maine and Saskatchewan. A 130 or 140gr at or a bit over 3000fps is a great balance for deer hunting. The 270 did and does this well, but the higher average bc and sd of the 6.5 projectiles, being driven to the same speed, gives it the slight edge to me.
I think you should do 270 wsm vs 6.8 western next
The .270 use to be 100 fps faster when first out. They slowed it down because hunters complained about meat damage in deee. Now with the all copper bullets out, thet should speed it back up.
Pretty sure they slowed it down because of excessive pressures. Some loadings were well over 3200fps with a 130gr bullet. Even with todays powders that number is almost unreachable. 130gr cup and core bullets already do too much damage at 3060fps, so they definitely didn't slow it down enough
@papajohnsy6659 great points. Because of the damage 130 gr cup and core bullets do, I went with 150 gr roundnose bullets. Remington core lokts. They work great on whitetails. Thank you.
You talk about the “precedence for accuracy” and while I do agree that we should be as accurate as possible one year i took a couple does with a push feed ruger 77 that had a slower than spec twist rate barrel. The rifle was a 7 mag and it grouped 140 sierra spitzers into about 4” at 100 yds. I wanted to see firsthand what it’d do at common hunting ranges. Long story short it worked out great, shot one deer at right around 200 yards and the other closer to 250/260 yards, both were one shot kills and i’d have had to spray painted a grid pattern on the deer to tell you if the shots were off and how much…. Something to keep in mind is that with say a 4” group all your shots are within 2” of your point of aim. If that’s not good enough I’ll eat my hat 😉
I recently inherited my grandpa’s Remington Model 76 in 30-06 when he passed away
I'm going to build a few 270-7PRC (yes, 7PRC necked down to .277). Already heard back from the reamer manufacturer. Will try on a Terminus Zeus QC long action with 3 barrels, all #5 contour, 8 twist from Brux, Bartlein, and a cut-rifled bbl from Benchmark
Keep me posted, when you get it! 👍😃
isnt that basically a 6,8 western?
🤪 Nope! 🤭 However, Performance Wise, the 270 Winchester is "Basically" the 6.8 Western - except with the 270 Winchester, you get an extra round in the magazine! 😂 And, That's Why the cartridge is "Basically Dead" After only a couple of years from being released! 💀
No. Main difference is brass availability. The 7PRC already has ADG, federal, Hornady, Peterson, and soon Lapua. There’s more case capacity and the 7PRC is here to stay. The 6.8 western not supported well at all
You will get much better results out of that case Derek, than the 6.8 Western would ever give! I am excited to here the results, especially with the 165 grain Nosler ABLR bullet! 😯 It should be about 150 ft/s faster than the 6.8 Western!
One of my favorite rifles is my Remington 7600 in 270
Difference is .031 diameter and .015 cross section area. They are so close they cross over depending on how it is loaded, bullet design, primer used, length of barrel, rotation of earth, density of air, relative humidity, phase of moon, temperature , planetary alignment, oceanic currents, water temperature ...
The earth doesn't rotate
@@Larry-ii3vd no?
@@Larry-ii3vd that's funny
@@papajohnsy6659 to a dummy smart stuff seems funny because they have no understanding so they laugh it off
Man I love these podcasts. Used to shoot 30.06 but bought a new LH bolt and could only find a .270. Was soooo disappointed “at the time”! Fast forward 20 years, the Browning Stainless Stalker (with BOSS) has been cut down and recrowned, stainless was blackened by an aerospace company, new trigger springs. After three moose, countless whitetails, black bear and yotes, it’s my favorite rifle and I have a few. 130 or 140 grain TSX or TTSX and the beast is unstoppable. Thanks for a great podcast
So are we gonna talk about Ryan dropping the ‘06 pill in his coffee lol. That made chuckle.
I think copper bullets have made the 270, and similar cartridges, even more viable than their 30 cal counterparts in a lot of situations. A 270 with a 130gr copper loaded to sometimes over 3100fps (the 128 badlands bulldozer cannot be improved upon for an all around 270 big game load in a standard twist barrel) is doing what hunters could only dream of in the 30s and 40s A 180gr partition in an 06 has probably taken more elk than I'll ever see in 2 lifetimes. Out to 350/400yds it is unquestionably an elk load that will put those big critters down. A 270 with aforementioned 128gr badlands bulldozer driven to 3100fps has a 40 ft lb deficit at 400yds, with a 350 fps velocity advantage, and a 5.5 and 3.4 inch advantage for drop + drift. I would also bet that the penetration of those two bullets would be fairly similar. Sure maybe the 06 would do slightly more damage, but I don't think any elk would know the difference. For that difference in performance I'll take the one with less recoil and a more forgiving ballistics table.
You should have compared the 30-06 , 270, and the 280 Remington Keep in mind that the 280's shoulder is pushed forward , kind of like the 300 win mag compared to the 338 win mag. The 280 is really underestimated. Now I admit I am partial to the 280 Remington having one in a Rebarreled 98K Mauser. My brother has a 270, and my 280 has more game taken, and my brother would get really upset. And he is a good shot and hard hunting walking fool.
My dad bought my deer rifle in 94. When deciding which caliber to go with, he compared info on the 270, 30-06, and 280 rem. We ended up with 280 rem. I would have loved that compared with these two, or the improved 280AI .
🕵️♂️ INFORMATION UPDATE: The 270 Winchester has "Hunting Bullet" Weight Options (Bonded and Monolithic Solid Bullets) from 80 grains to 180 grains! This is MORE than the 25 caliber, 6.5 mm caliber, or 7mm caliber! As we speak, rifle manufactures are producing faster twist barrels that are comming in anticipation of Even Heavier Bullet Options! Thus, the 270 Winchester is About to become EVEN MORE VERSATILE! When We Compare the Overlapping Bullet Weight Options to even the 30 Caliber (and 30-06), the 270 Winchester Bullets Have Higher Sectional Densities and Higher B.C.'s, in ALL Those Overlapping Bullet Weights, WHEN USING PREMIUM HUNTING BULLETS AND FOR TAKING LONGER SHOTS ON GAME ANIMALS! Thus, For the "North American Deer Species, It Is The Better Choice"! 🤑 And, It Has Very Manageable Recoil Too! 😃
It’s ok Ron the 270 love will pass but it might take a few years🤔😳😂 I love the 270 too having owned a couple hundred over my 60+ years of collecting! I have a friend who collects pre64’s and I just got him a couple as a gift in 270 since he didn’t have any in that caliber and is a huge Jack O’Conner fan! I am a Sako guy and all things Mauser guy!
Me too! I have bought 4 Sako's and All Shoot Amazingly Well! 🤯
@@ronlowney4700I knew there was something I liked about you! Sako rules! Never seen a Sako I didn’t like! My 85’s and Finbear are my favorite especially my carbine in 20 inch barrel!
Beautiful! 😯
I have been a diehard 30-06 man for 35 years. Killed Elk,Deer, Mule Deer you name it. That said I recently bought a 270 worked up some loads and I am very impressed very good cartridge. And will probably Deer hunt with it this year. 243 Win is my second favorite cartridge. But I don’t think the 270 is better than my 30-06.
I'm curious if .270 has been used much in Africa on safari comparison wise. I know tons of outfitters allow 30-06 for plains game, crocs etc, but I have never heard that for .270. I think both are great, but the .30-06 is kind of like the .308. Great at almost anything within it's velocity window. When you need more, usually, you don't, but you might. ;)
Any way we can see Marks beloved 300wizum vs a 300wm!? Would be a fun episode
NICE RIFLE MARK. I had to pause the video to make sure that I was seeing what I thought was seeing. Sure enough; it was a BAR. I know a guy with a 1972 FN/Belgian-made Browning BAR Mark II Safari chambered in .30-06 that he will NEVER sell. He killed his first white tail deer in Hampton S.C. from an elevated box blind on his first venture into the woods with a rifle. Most details, including the the ammo used, have faded after 30 years but I do recall the shot being taken at about 85 yds. She was a big doe, weighing approximately 135 lbs., taken on an a slight front-quartering shot. I remember her leaping straight into the air and then running away. I was shocked at the gut pile left on the ground at the point of impact. I suppose her heart and lungs were still intact for her to travel as far as she did before resting eternally dozens of yards away. That gun was his late stepfather's only deer rifle. It is in pristine condition and stored in a gun safe now. One day it will come back out to take his first buck. This time he will have the wealth of knowledge that he did not have on his first hunt. Your Vortex Nation podcast videos are tremendously informative and entertaining. That Ryan is a sheer genius. You and Jim are proper entertainment as well. I hope that the three of you never tire of doing the fabulous jobs that you do. I don't know what I would tune to on TV when the wife leaves the room if you were not there. Keep up the car analogies too. I have a love for everything gas or powder powered. I have one request presently: how about a .223 vs .243 shootout? Well, maybe two requests... I would like to here more about the .222. My father has talked about shooting buzzards in Savannah GA as a young man with a bolt action .222. Thanks for all you do guys!!!
👰 Ryan, if you are going to get Married, it should be to the 270 WINCHESTER! 🤣
The M1 was originally a smaller caliber and it was general mccarthur that had it changed to 3006.
Love them both, shoot them both. This is becoming my favorite series next to spaghetti shootout! Hopefully y'all bring back the "lead balloon" series and cover the 338 Federal 😉.
🕵️♂️ Use the 270 Winchester shooting the 130 grain Horneday CX copper bullet - with Horneday's Superformance Ammunition and pushing it out at 3,200 ft/s - and that entire block will be penetrated! 😜
I’d like to see a cartridge talk comparing the .270 vs 6.5 prc I feel like these will match up good against each other
Y'all opened a can of worms when you brought up the .25-'06! I'll just add to discussion: What about the .35 Whelen?
Who makes the Projectiles for the Winchester Copper Impact?
Winchester does. Can't just buy the projectile by itself. There Winchester own special design. Only one on the market with that large size ballistic tip and hollow pocket.
I didn't know they made projectiles. Thought they just had one of the bullet mfg make it like just about everyone else does. I never liked Winchester ammo. That broken tip and air bubble are not a good sign, and even more reason not to use them..@@REDNECKROOTS
270 didn't become popular until the introduction of the Weaver K series. That's not a coincidence
Thanks! I wasn’t familiar with that bit of history. I can see how a 4x scope with a 1” tube and centered reticle would be a game changer.
I need a 30-30 vs 308 asap!
I have hunted with both interchangeably for the last 36 years both have accounted for many deer. my biggest buck yet was with a 12ga foster slug 😁 just put it in the bread basket and you won't go wrong and most of all enjoy the hunt...
Wish we could have seen the .270 from the top POV like they talked about. Why not rotate it for the crowd? Maybe stand in front of the wall when pointing and talking about them next time too. Love these vids. Watching/listening to too many of them. Helped me buy my 30-06 Tikka with a vortex scope
A copper 130 gr load from the 270 will do anything you need it to do with less recoil than the 30-06. All while shooting flatter and drifting less in the wind. It’s funny how the 30-06 is touted as the do it all cartridge simply because of the broad range of projectile weight. I don’t really think that makes a cartridge part versatile. With today’s bullets you don’t need a broad range of bullet weights. I think of versatility in terms of hunting different terrain and IMO the 270 is more versatile in that regard. For example the 270 makes for a better mountain rifle due to its reduced recoil in a lighter rifle and flatter trajectory. Yet at the same you can step up to a 150 gr load for reduced impact velocity to use at shorter woodland distances. It also shouldn’t surprise anybody that the 270 outpenetrated the 30-06. The 270 shoots projectiles of the same sectional density at faster velocities than the 30-06. That’s what a lot of folks who simply look at bullet weights don’t understand
I'd argue that if the slight advantages either cartridges might have over the other are enough to polarize you, then you've got too much time to think about numbers on paper and not enough time behind the gun. Both overlap in utility and capability to the point that they could be used interchangeably. Is a .270 a flatter shooting round? Yes, with the right bullet out at extreme distances beyond common usage that difference becomes obvious. With that said, it's not a great extreme range round compared to a plethora of other options. Does it recoil less? Sure, but by how much? If a 30-06 is uncomfortable for you to shoot, then a .270 almost certainly will be as well. Slight differences in sectional density are irrelevant with expanding ammo. If a 150 grain .270 and a 150 grain 30-06 both expand to the same diameter their effective SD is identical anyway. Bullet construction is the deciding factor on penetration between the two.
Well, Mark, Jim, Ryan, I guess it's time to make a video about "The Rifle Man's Rifle" (winchester model 70) Mostly, I am interested in: model 70 extreme weather ss Come on, guess, I have been asking this forever! And yes, Ryan, please compare it to our favorite tikka t3x stainless Thanks Gregory from Alberta
Yall need to do a battle of the .300 caliber bullets for ep 300
Buy a .30-06, done. I’ve killed everything from whitetails, moose, caribou, black bear and grizzly (in AK) with an -06. I wouldn’t even consider a .270 for grizzly.
Really enjoyed the video and Podcast. In my opinion you are debating which one of your sons do you like more, the one that is the star quarterback or the one that is the star pitcher. Now based on what I heard for the two of you, you really want to sing the praises of the 270(and you should) but due to your earlier days you just can't bring yourself around to give the 270 the full respect it deserves.
I could easily change the outcome of this type of comparison, by changing the categories and the priorities being considered. If I ever had the "need" for a 270, 6.5 CM, 300 win mag,...etc, I will get one. I'll sooner get another 30-06 for my needs, and to work with my ammo stockpile, reloading components, and familiarity with performance and ballistics.
Agree with the end sentiment. They're both winners. I've seen small-large whitetails and black bears DRT with both. You can't go wrong with both. Just your preference.
While I am a 270 man I can’t say anything bad about the 30-06, they are both great. When I want more horsepower I carry a 340Wby mag.
10 channels? We had no tv in our household as a kid. My maternal grandmother had two. There were about 6 channels in the 70’s & 80’s. ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, 2 UHF channels that eventually became FOX and WB.
30 06 for me but I have 270 Browning bar
50:10 I suppose the tie breaker, could be. In such a case as mine. And other (new to rifle hunting) users... If the 270 win is any more affordable ammunition, and if it's more resistant to drop/wind... If that lends itself to more natural accuracy, and economy lends itself to... less costly shooting practice, And, if lower recoil. Encourages more practice... If all. Of those factors lend themselves to increased accuracy. And its exceptional. For the intended target of deer or perhaps elk, And if it can impact a bear that gets aggressive... (defensive, enough...) Your point in the other podcast I watched recently, repeatedly stated that its more about the bullet selection, matching it to the individual rifle for performance, And then overall accuracy, Shot placement for the correct bullet being more important to you, overall, than pure energy or pure mass alone, or Ballistic Coefficient? Alone... You've given me good reason to seriously consider the 270 win. Which is epically timed, as I'm looking very seriously, at Tikka T3x rifles, and several come available in my area, ... In a 270 win. 20 inch. Cerakote. Beautiful option. I just wasn't sure how I felt about a 270 win. Ironically, I thought I might be more familiar with the 223 rem... As the 556 equivalent for civilian use?
30-06 with 15 grain Nosler partition pushed by a healthy done of superformance powder and I have never been able to teach a deer any new tricks after having shot it with that combination in conjunction with a FN98 Mauser rifle in a wood stock. It does not get more old school than that if smokeless powder is the stuff that does the working part.
❤ them both, I would say the greatest factor. Is whether you live east of mississippi or west of the mississippi. Us easterners tend to like the 3/06. Where westerners tend to favor the 270 a little bit better., Or more whatever vinecular you prefer.
Buddy of mine back in the 80’s had a bubba’d arisaka in 30-06 that he liked to wack the occasional squirrel or chipmunk with those 55gr accelerator loads. Past about a hundred feet it threw them everywhere but inside of that it was definitely minute of squirrel. Didn’t leave much but it made hits.
Minute of squirrel 🤣 👌🏻
Question is, what’s going to stop a charging grizzly in its tracks sooner, a 45-70 or a .270? To me this is the comparison. The stream lined bullets glide through air but lack the frontal surface area. Whoteewhoo in his anecdotal experience with others found out that 6.5 CM wasn’t putting down as quickly.
The size of the temporary cavity inside the animal has a lot to do with dropping an animal in its tracks. According to Duncan MacPherson, an engineer who studied bullet dynamics and wound trauma, the shock from the sudden opening of a large void inside the animal tends to stun it and prevent it from running briefly. Often the animal bleeds out and dies before regaining mobility. He explained that a large temporary cavity creates a brief "blunt-force-trauma paralysis" similar to hitting someone on the back with a 2x4. How close the shot is to the spine or the bundle of nerves at the solar plexus also plays a big part. Creating a large enough temporary cavity to reliably stun an animal requires a particular combination of velocity and bullet frontal diameter that the 270 obtains much more often than the slower, slightly smaller 6.5 Creedmoor. The 6.5 Creedmoor, especially with relatively heavy bullets, does enough damage to kill the animal, but often isn't traveling fast enough to reliably cause a "Dead Right There" drop. Historical note: One of the reasons that the 270 Win became so famous when introduced in the late 1920's is that it frequently produced "killed like lightening" effect whereas many 30-06 loads of the time did not. Advancements in propellants and bullets has made the 30-06 and other cartridges more likely to achieve DRT results now.
A 45 70 would stop a griz faster than a 30 06 too
@@jfess1911 the 30-06 during WW2 was downloaded and called m2 ball if I recall. I wonder if hunters then we’re using lessened charges to down their game. Happy to see a resurgence in gods caliber
@@WayStedYou at closer ranges that seems to be my anecdotal experience with those I’ve talked to as well
@@trkjivdlopmd Propellant technology improved steadily after the 1906 introduction of the 30-06.* Things got confusing after WWI. A more powerful. longer-range load, the "M1 Ball" was developed but then abandoned for a number of reasons. The initial M2 Ball load developed in the 1930's had less recoil than the M1, used a lighter bullet (152 vs ~173grain) but was was still about 100fps faster than the original 1906 150gr load. The armor piercing "A.P. M2" 30-06 load used later in WWII was a bit hotter than all the previous loads, though. It launched a ~168gr bullet at about 2775 fps, according to Hatcher's notebook. It was possible to hand-load hotter with the right powder, but I don't know if factory hunting ammo did so. *The 308 (7.62x51) was designed to essentially match the performance of the original 1906, 30-06 load. With modern powders, the 308 has improved beyond that. Then again, the 30-06 has gotten better too!
I hunt with 270 win with a 1950 model 70 winchester. I love it . But I use 300wsm for moose in a remington 700 xcr just because it's a all weather rifle .
Is there anything that you could put on top of the block roughly 3 inches back that could work as a sensor to measure the "explosivity " of the impact with the temporary wound? I think having actual numbers would be an interesting comparison beyond just watching the jiggle.
Mark's index finger?
With the blister on Ryan's hand 32:50. Looks like he may have done some Shoot Shovel and Shut up. 😉
I wish .280 AI was popular enough to make this a proper three horse race
So much has to be said for the shootability of the .270 W. A rifle that is comfortable to shoot is just plain more accurate. Granted, you don't have as much impact energy but you are impacting at your point of aim more often. However, your shot must be sure. With the .30-06 and bigger pill weights and more frontal area, it could be more forgiving. So, if your rifle that day was 1 MOA, no problem, you have a large enough bullet mushrooming and doing the work that your target animal will expire and you can and will harvest it. And yeah, it served well in wartime. So, pick the one you can shoot and go with that. And yeah, you can choose a .30-06 in a comfortable loading that will do the job.
The only 270 rifle I have is my grandfather's Remington 7600 pump action and I have never shot it. I have my 30-06 Remington 7600 that my Dad got for me when I was 16 years old. I am now 55 years old. I'm gonna send mine off to Hillbilly gunsmithing to be re-worked and a new barrel put on it after this next deer season.
In 1975 I bought my 1st center fire rifle, a beautiful Remington 700 BDL. It was only accurate with hot loads and kicked like a horse! No fun to shoot at all!!! I took it over to my full service gun store and they asked it I had any more money, I did. I traded it and they sold me an H&K 770 in 308. Not much recoil, super accurate and very fast. I wore that thing out over 40 years to were it was no longer reliable. My take is that if your going to tolerate the kind of recoil that a 30-06 generates then just get a 7 mag. It’s enough better than the 06 to make the choice. As far as breaks, I use one on my 7 but I never go into the field without my Razor electric earbuds. With a brake the 7 is just awesome to shoot. As to the 270, it really won’t do anything that 25-06 won’t do with the right bullet. It’s flatter and has less recoil but you will need a 24” barrel. So many choices which is why you need so many guns!!!😂 In Texas, with shots under 200 I’m generally running the 300 Hamr. No recoil, super accurate, very effective, and easy to carry around for an old man like me!😀 Love the cartridge comparisons!!
🕵️♂️ If You Look at the Nosler Online Manual, What You Will See Is The 270 Winchester and 204 Norma Powder and a 110 grain bullet (Accubond, or Barnes TTSX, see Barnes Manual), Can Be Pushed Out At 3,500 ft/s! That is Several Hundred ft/s Faster than the 25-06 (and even faster than the 257 Weatherby Magnum, with 25% less powder)! So, in Practical Terms, if I sight in my 270 at 350 yards, it drops +/- 4.5" out to 400 yards and -15" at 500 yards! That is a great deer and antelope load, which the 25-06 can't beat (Doesn't Shoot Flatter)! The 270 Winchester also has more bullet versatility (80 grains to 180 grains) and in 5 grain increments, has bonded or solid copper bullets in all but 3 bullet weights! So, When the 25-06 Stops at 130 grains, the 270 is Just Getting Started and I Can Hunt a Greater Variety of Game With It! 🤑 So, It's the 270 Win. for the Win! 🥇🏆