Can a Single Tool Change your Entire Workflow?
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In this video we got to play with a new, more professional CNC. The X-Carve Pro by inventables...and we decided to answer one of the most common questions we get whenever we use our CNC to make templates which is. "Why don't you just cut the finished shape on the CNC" - after some experimentation I think we found a pretty good answer to that question and had some realizations along the way.
#woodworking #CNC # Templates
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Need to write one hell of a grant to get one of those in my classroom, hmm 🤔
I’m curious as to the reason for cutting individual pieces and gluing rather than just carving the whole piece. Wouldn’t carving the whole piece been better?
Maybe a stupid question, but did you tram your router? Snd surface your spoilboard?? I can asure you, you need to take a couple of hours to properly setup that router for ultimate precision..Just look up tramming and surfacing...make sure the wood you put on the router is exactly the same thickness and you would only need clamps for glueing..
why didn't you buy (or consider) the Yeti Smartbench CNC?
That intro was amazing. I like how much fun y’all are starting to have with these intros so much.
Thanks so much!! It's probably the most fun we have now :)
Can't believe you guys are going your own way's. I'm a consultant software engineer, I watch one of your videos every morning before i start work. I've learned so much craft from you two. I'm relatively new to having a table saw, I built a router table 6 moths back and i've newly added a band saw. I use your work flow. I make templates, route, Glue. My projects aren't as grand as yours. I converted an oak barn (Circa 1550) in to my house. Presently I'm making oak shutters for the windows (all 17 of them) each iteration i'm improving, the frames now have half lap joints (the first ones were butt joint reinforced with biscuit splines across the back. it worked but the later ones are better. Your channel is informative and entertaining. Sean brings a lot to it and i think it will be less without him
Definitely loved the intro too! That splash of dust though lol
Gotta make them think I'm working :)
I owned a cabinet shop for years, the cliff’s edge of enjoying what you do can be summed in a couple words; production and efficiency. These two words will suck the enjoyment and creativity from you. ambient CNC noise isn’t listed on KZhead as a sleeping aid !
Working in one now, I agree 😂
Less is more. Enjoying what you do -production- -efficiency-
As far as improving the first method's issue with gaps in the glue-up due to human error, I would suggest changing the joint design from butt joints to a "click fit" joint carved by the machine, I.E. machine-cut dovetails, finger joints or something decretive. This would also have the benefit of cutting out the time setting up domino joints as well. Of course, if you didn't mind the aesthetic changing in the piece. Great video!
That is a very good idea...didn't even think of that. But as I was reading it I went "ahh yes...but wait the look" which you then addressed. I'm sure there's a way to make it look good though :)
That is a super great idea, and would also add some very subtle grain detail, maybe even do a bevel on the joints to accentuate it! You could even market it as "integrated locking joinery"
@@Foureyes.Furniture You could make them full blind dovetails (or fingers) and preserve the original look. Would be a good test of the X-Carve.
@@Foureyes.Furniture think jigsaw pieces...
Had the exact same idea while watching this - just get the CNC to do the joinery for you too and make it part of the design. You can let your imagination go wild using the CNC to do this “joinery”
This might be your best intro yet
Thanks man...appreciate it :)
Awesome video. I've followed both of your channels for a while, but this one, BY FAR, puts you at the top of my woodworking channel list. GREAT VIDEO!
Great job! Really appreciated the pros/cons discussion of the different approaches. I enjoy the esthetic of well designed and made furniture, but I truly enjoy the open discussion of how to get there; the trade-offs of different approaches and exploration of the design space! And referencing the podcast, yes, I agree with Ben, take a day or more to work through a design. It takes time for a good design to "simmer" in the brain to bring out all the deliciousness!
Run 2 xcarve batches .. first for the rough cuts with the right angled surfaces for the joints. Then domino the pieces together. Then run the second xcarve batch for the final shape.
You could fix the alignment issues you are having when glueing up your finished cnc pieces by more fully using the power of your cnc. Create puzzle type ends on your pieces so the will lock together in only the desired position. The style of the locking ends can be varied to suite your personal tastes or the style of the furniture.
Great video guys, I hope KZhead never despair, and you guys keep bringing these content and discussion to the table, i guess big furniture company's had this kind of decision to make at one point, we will never had chance to be part of this, now thanks to you we are, thanks for that, human are perfect machines we create machines hybrid all that way....
This is by far my favorite channel on KZhead. Love the level of technicality, humor, and artisan talent. Good work gents.
We're a real triple threat :)
While I'm right on board with everything you guys are saying about experimentation and the Human touch, watching (CNC) machines operate is like staring into a camp fire, for me. Completely mesmerizing!
First, I concur with everyone else, the intros are always fantastic. Second, I feel like without Shaun's typical outro rhyme and addressing the plural of thicknesses this was a bit lacking. Of course, if all the above elements were in one singular video, it may just make the KZhead disappear and that would be bad. So..... Good call on the moderation.
Whereas 99% of the intros on this channel elicit a light chuckle, this one make me laugh out loud. Keep 'em coming.
Without doubt one of the best intros you guys have done! Brilliant video throughout!
Hahahaa I loveeed the sketch at the front!
I’d do both combined. (1) Use the CNC to cut out oversized parts and glue up/assemble. (2) CNC a fixtures that you mount to the CNC which allows you to easily place multiple oversized assemblies in the machine located easily without much effort and/or thought and (3) let the x-carve cut the final finished pieces. CNC should take the labor out of the job. You should avoid finding ways to add it back in - e.g. spindle sanding parts to final size/shape.
Great conversation, thanks for making me think about CNCs.
Great video as always and that X-Carve carves like a...Pro! Oh and Shaun's face while Chris was playing guitar...priceless haha!
he does that everytime I play :)
In a situation multiple items that are exactly the same (like dining room chairs), the cnc is the way to go. For one of a kind items, there's nothing like hands on work.
Like the details of your explanations guys! Like your work ;)
Like all of your videos, this one is excellent. Not something I would ever do. However your notion of jigs can be used in many applications. I just did some blanket ladders and used some simple jigs to make several at once.
I really enjoyed this Video, nice work!
Thank you very much!
If you design indexed lap joints, you can make it exactly as you designed it and tap them together with a mallet and skip the jigs entirely for option 1. Look forward to your future projects!
Plain & simple you guys freakin kill me Man!! And... I miss GOT so much!! Hoping all is well, Dirty Jersey out!!
But seriously that sneak peak!! Riveting .. i could watch that for hours!! 😂
Aye yo, that intro is 10/10!! And you in the shop in the Carolina Blue Jordan 1’s
Chris, if the Nice Lady is your Wife, please include her more. If she isn’t, include her more! Loved your video, the dialogue of what you do and how and why is very interesting. Thanks guys. Also, Hi Shawn!
Yeaaaa, hit us with some 17 min xcarve vidjas!! Just don't forget the sweet intros, outros, scrap 3-pointers, and puns.
Glue up chunky bits, rough cut shape on bandsaw/jigsaw, template route to finished shape. Takes far less time to do than the setup and multiple cut passes on a CNC. Plus, you can assembly line the process with a co-worker rather than a big part of the entire process being stuck on a machine. The machine is great for the template parts, you can make multiple templates identical without having to have multiple CNCs to do the finished work.
Awesome intro. I don’t laugh out loud often, but that got me.
Hey, just watched your most recent video, and was curious about the X-Carve. Then I just found that you did a whole video on it haha.
Great info guys. Thanks. Shaun, where's Greg and what does he think about the new machine? Bill
Can you make the sections in one piece so to minimize gluing and clamping?
Very cool. I was wondering why the chair pieces couldn't be carved as one whole piece instead of three? It must have been to compare three Hand cut to three xcarved pieces ... Also wonder how hard it was to square the machine and fine tune the accuracy? My v1 xcarve is super accurate in y direction ... Arranging small pieces vertically seems more accurate than same pieces arranged horizontal in x direction ... Small pieces like kumiko ... If that makes sense.
I also wonder why you can't just carve as one whole piece.
I watch to learn how to make the furniture myself, for myself, I will never have a CNC since I will be working in shop that has to share space with two cars. So CNC for templates, great! CNC for actually cutting the actually pieces, well there are other woodworking KZhead channels.
My company has five very large Felder Format 4 CNC machines and we use them for cutting out parts and then finishing the combined glued-up parts. As you found out by yourself, don't glue up the parts after finishing them.
Great info, guys~! Yeah, if you transitioned your video content to showing all of your projects being cut out on the CNC, I would be less inclined to tune in as much as I do to your channel. I really enjoy seeing you guys in the shop showing the trial and (not much) error stages of your process. It's not broken, so don't fix it~! 😄 Thanks much~!!
Sean! I've found you again! Happy days. No more heavy-duty dismounts? Grrreat! Keep 'er lit Bro!
it seems to me you guys are thinking in 2D. The CNC can of course do these cuts with more accuracy and with greater repeatability but I 'd be interested to see you use 3D to not only cut out the shapes but also do the shaping of the parts. Kind of hard on the whole hand made quality idea though.
But they care about flat packing stuff... Of course they want to think 2d
Hi Chris, love your channel, thanks for the great content. I am an interior designer and use SketchUp as my predominant tool. I'm curious as to how you do you animations. Are you using dynamic components or a plug-in? thanks!
You could engineer the joints to include bow-ties or something to improve the glue-up. But yeah, I never thought you'd not cut the whole piece with the CNC
The Jazz ball hat rules!
for those who've been starting in woodworking, and keep climbing onto next level, then there is a single tool that will change your entire work flow, yes, a jointer machine :)
You guys crack me up. Keep up the great job 😄
Thank you! Will do!
Love the beginning! Great comedy
Thanks so much! We try :)
Your animations in sketchup of the build and jig designs are awesome and illustrative. The only issue with them is that they have no ease-in ease-out so they appear to start and stop movement very harshly (with infinite acceleration actually). I never commented on this before, because I think sketchup doesn't let you solve this, but on the podcast you mentioned you were playing with Blender which should be able to do this. Keep up the awesome work! Thanks for the great video.
Infinitely long... mind blown! Converting board feet to lightyears board feet. At some point a star or plantet or black hole might bump into or crush the end of your table. Also nice drifting skills on the RC cars.
What did you use for the base/table for the pro? Looks like pre-fab metal frame?
When do we get an hour long video of the X-Carve carve table? Loving the workflow of that machine!
Definitely looks like a solid machine and a way to up your game. However, given the price, it should up your game. Also, there are plenty of more proven choices in that price range. Keep up the great content!
Chris, what's your opinions on the vertical cnc machines - such as maker made maslow cnc? It is much more affordable, and can save space. But as a user who don't have cnc experience before, what pros and cons to expect between an x-carve vs. a vertical cnc besides price.
Great breakdown. Was this loaned to you from Inventables? If you still have it could you talk about the tiling feature?
I love your intro!
love when you guys do intros like this
Thanks J. Our favorite part of the build :)
@@Foureyes.Furniture great call with the sawdust glitter! JKM would have to be careful not to get any in his hair products....
Thanks man.
I think you could streamline the build by getting rid of the straight and clamp-requiring joints. It would be worth trying a hub design where the parts fit in, like a jigsaw piece (containing all the current intersections) and then gluing it. Of course there will be grain direction on strength related tests but still...might be worth trying. I want an CNC so bad! Cheers!
That intro was so good I even showed my wife and she laughed 😅
At the sale price, this thing is pretty compelling; not sure I can say the same at full price.. I've got barely over that into a 4x8 Avid Pro with ATC. I think the issue here is less the process being incapable, and more the design not being built around the strengths of CNC. Leverage the technology to create joinery that has a positive interlock straight off of the machine and I think you'll see better results :)
That makes sense. I'm sure I could look at it as a way to add another design element.
This is obviously an add for X-Carve, but if anyone is looking for a CNC I would strongly recommend the Shaper Origin ($2,500 usd). Has both advantages and disadvantages compared to the X-Carve, but price and size are huge advantages.
Awesome video as always. why not simply cut it as one unit out of a sheet. This should improve cut times a ton?
Bach’s Bourrée, nice!
:)
Great video guys!
Thanks so much!
With that intro I would have sworn you were going to talk about dust collection!
Can I ask Where you purchased your table from that you put your X-Carve on? The one with the blue legs. Thanks! Love your shop!
Yeah...Kreg, They make modular rails so you can make them all sorts of sizes :)
Now i just wanna see shaun make a similar concept to the old plywood desk and bench he did years ago when he did his cnc impression on the bandsaw
Intro was just lit✴️✴️
Great film, so entertaining. Chris's wife deserves an Oscar. Mahalo for sharing!🐒
What about the SWEATY part??? You should have done a bunch of squats or burpees for full effect! Lol. Great video - I hope to get an X-carve some day when I get a bigger shop or maybe figure out how to hang it out of the way (or maybe HANG it from the ceiling in my garage!)
Lmao you got me with the intro hahahahahhaha
As a professional furniture designer, I’d suggest that if you want to optimise for CNC manufacture you need to design with that in mind from the start. If you take that approach you’ll achieve things with the CNC that are impossible by hand. There are however plenty of things it unsuited to (not just internal corners!).
The intro is awesome 😂😂😂
I think you need to allow yourselves to do a lot of experiments trying the CNC, even going outside those occasions where it ‘makes sense’. You’ll ‘fail’ a lot, but you’ll have a better understanding of where the boundaries are, what truly makes sense for your specific needs, and even maybe develop some novel techniques. As long as there’s a camera rolling and more great intros, it’s win-win for everyone.
SHOUT-OUT TO SHAUN'S SHIRT!
I was thinking the same thing! Bird nerds unite!
What software do you use to design the furniture models.
Most big Sign companies have large routing tables 8’x16’ is standard. They have 70hp vacuums below. All the parts are held in place. Small parts are trouble. The operator holds the small parts in place with a rod. Save all your files for future work
Great into add outro. Big point to not use them x carve: it's not fun. The fun is in making it and using all the different tools and techniques. Using and mastering that kind of skill is way more fulfilling.
The intro was so good $$
Thanks :)
First of all...Shaun...tweet, tweet...tweety-tweet...tweet...that birdy enough for you. Second, Chris...talking the math! Heard you say both times and add up! Damn...doesn't get much better than this! Great review guys. I bought an x-carve last year for my Maker's Space class...larger after watching Shaun's videos featuring Greg. We got a girl though, Olivia...she's a warrior-poet, workhorse kinda girl...love her. Now I'm thinking about one of these for my shop at home...seems like limitless possibilities. Thanks for the review!
I love your videos and your approach for sharing your knowledge! Keep ‘em coming! But my question today is totally off topic… as a fellow bald bearded poor-sighted designer and woodworker, where did you get the glasses you are wearing in this video??? I must have them! Cheers!!
What about changing the design so that you don't have such a complicated glue-up? It seems like the CNC could cut shapes that would be really awkard/impossible to do by hand such that you don't have three separate parts that you need to glue up. Or are the joints fundamental to the design and duplicating the by-hand assembled design is the only way to do it?
I suppose you could modify the CNC parts to include the clamping surfaces and then use a router template to remove them.
Hey Gents - - ive found a lot of perks to also using the cnc to cut mortises for dominos. that’s a repeatability and speed revelation as far as getting dead @ss perfect assemblies.
May be you could try newer and more creative kind of joins, like a puzzle part or some. This tool allow for more creative ways to think woodworking since it doesn't have the limitations of traditional tools.
Hey Chris. That song on guitar, that was Ryvola? Thanks.
It wasn't. It was just stuff from the YT music Library
Not wanting to cut into the *waste* board hahaha. Anyway, nice production Chris, as always.
Oh we took care of that very shortly after :)
@@Foureyes.Furniture Will we see some aftermath footage some time in the future? ;)
I have only seen Shaun wear 2 or 3 diff shirts, and it's always the talk birdie with me one, have you captured shaun for a years worth of videos and released back to the wild
you're kind of right...but I've counted at least 6 shirts. You can always tell it's laundry day when certain one start to show up.
In the CNC version, perhaps if you include bridges in your file to keep your workpiece from moving during the cut?
We used tabs to keep things stationary. That wasn't the problem. It's really the 0 margin for error, and the introduction of a human element.
@@Foureyes.Furniture sorry I guess I didn't see that. I like your solution anyway. I use to work with a company that had 5ft. x 10ft. CNC they used it for sign making. They would print registration marks, use and optical sensor at three points to align the work and the CNC would make all the adjustments. Fun to watch, thanks.
Nice intro. Hope to see more
What you guys are failing to take into account is that the cnc machine acts as additional headcount without having to actually hire someone. While the machine is doing ANY of the operations you assign it, it frees you up to do the pre and post CNC operations at the same time. So, it’s really a force multiplier regardless of how you use it. Also, as someone who programs and operates CNC equipment, the parts you get out, and their subsequent fitment into assembly, are only as good as your process development. If accessing squeeze out at the seams is an issue during glue up, redesign your clamping jigs to create access. Aside from sharp corners and undercuts, you should be able to have the CNC machine do everything you do by hand, but with more repeatability, accuracy, and precision.
Just watched your box building video, got me thinking, since you're so eunterprenuerial .... Whoops ... Could u guys do something like open desk furniture and create and sell cnc furniture design files or Gcode, or fusion 360 parameterized design files for cabinet templates, chair templates, etc. Those rounded cornered cabinets would be fun to buy as a kit and carve myself. Do u do fusion 360? Pretty amazing software.
What kind of wood did they use on this chair?
I feel like I missed something along the way. I've been watching each of your channels for the longest time, but only recently noticed you guys together. Are you brothers? Do you play karate in the garage?
How about redesigning where the joints will meet?
Yeah. Such a good intro
Loved the intro
just the intro deserves a like jkajkakjjajajaja
why didn't you buy (or consider) the Yeti Smartbench CNC?