Will Man City's success be tainted if GUILTY? 💰 | Carra & Nev on Man City FFP charges | MNF
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Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher discuss whether the Premier League is becoming a one-horse race with Manchester City's dominance and share their thoughts on the financial fair play charges the club is facing.
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If you get charged 115 theres no way your innocent
When the charges are the ones uefa couldn't prove
Well if I'm ever charged with anything wrongfully I don't want you representing me
@@paulbrickland9625the case was dropped due to a time limit lol
@@Df19_20 that time limit applies to all contractual case uefa or pl because it's enshrined in law so no matter what masters says he's still has to abide by the law cos the pl is a management company not an Independant state why do why do you think they're bring out new rules now and why is it a secret
@@paulbrickland9625 You simply don't receive 54 separate charges of refusing to provide accurate financial information across a ten year period without something being afoot. Plus 35 charges of refusing to cooperate in any way with investigations from 2018 onwards, doesn't exactly paint city as a club with nothing to hide. These aren't even charges that need to be proven as these are purely from refusing to prove anything either way. If city were clean and innocent of any wrongdoing they'd have rolled out the red carpet for the auditors at any point over the span of a decade just to put the various rumours to bed. Instead they're playing the long game like they did with UEFA hoping their lawyers can stifle them to the point of giving up.
Anyone who thinks they will be found guilty is crazy. They will get away with it. Even if found guilty, they won't have their titles taken off them.
They'll get a £10mil fine or something which is loose change for them.
Maybe City are innocent?
You're assuming city are actually guilty
You sound uncertain. Considering 'we're' the crazy ones...
@@tomben6180 115 chargers? Aye yeah sure. Everyone knows they’ve cheated for years.
You cant win versus a club backed by a nation , they have unlimited funds for legal defence
* video plays of Sheikh Mansour flanked by an army of Lawyers , we saw what happened last time with UEFA and CAS
Legal defence and bribery
Yeah will the sun ever drop down from the Solar system...Not even in the galaxy lifetime..Just as City ain't gonna be proven guilty..Besides, They might be FALSE but just a clever way of tainting City's success..Just becuz City has a lot of money, wrongly accusing them of "Breaches" which will align with their hefty money which will make it easy and plausible to believe mostly by City HATERS...But Nothing's gonna happen and Haters will KEEP CRYING! 🤣🤣
the reason why they're winning so much isn't because they're backed by a nation but because they have the best manager in pep, wherever he goes he wins league titles for fun with his playing style
@@detnemt9571 every team he managed had won the league the season before.
Major changes are needed to the sport across Europe. It shouldn't be a choice between FFP where only a couple of established top clubs can win, or letting people who have unlimited wealth spend whatever they please. It needs to become much more of a level playing field to keep it exciting.
This is why most fans want the German style of ownership. Arsenal were a private co until recently, it was only like 10% fan ownership, but they had agm etc. This type of stuff couldn't happen. But the pl like having money come in, it's how they built the league
If you have the money you should be allowed to spend it. If somebody wants to put their own money into a club whys that so wrong? Ffps fine for the smaller clubs, but it limits the ceiling on clubs that want to be the best but cannot overtake the so called big 6.
Such a shame ❤ Shame on you ❤??
@@was6207 my point is that money has become too big a factor in doing well and the top level is becoming less and less competitive every year. How are clubs that aren't established and don't have billionaire owners willing to invest whatever it takes ever supposed to compete?
@@James-tz8qe Get better owners who will run your club better, isn’t that the reason City were voted the best club in the world?
Wenger called this out 25 years ago and everyone laughed at him.
Should have had a points reduction like Juve but the FA would never let that happen because they love thier Oil clubs
Don’t bite the hand that feeds you
@@benhodgson8879 FA are at the highest of corruption. They bring these charges forward, then retract their interest until city spiced up the title race enough, with even beating arsenal to it, for max viewership and revenue.. and then restart it once its ended.
Then why would they charge them with 115 breaches ?
Juve had it overturned, that’s why they’re now above Roma and in the hunt for UCL places
@@hi-ls6lt look again
1:34-1:38 funny how gary was still looking at the camera while they were starting a new segment 😂
😂
He broke the 4th wall.
Yes I laughed profusely
Looking into the souls of the man city owners
Only Gary could’ve done that 😂
Bottom line is Guardiola is a great manager but he would never be at City if not for the free money they were given.
Free money? 😂 You make as much sense as my pet hamster
@@masterchief1520 Your pet hamster is obviously smarter than you
@@masterchief1520 Guardiola has enough funds available to him from the Mansour chequebook to write whatever names he wants on his Christmas list year after year. And seeing zero repercussions for this, it might as well be 'free money'. That's not even mentioning the tens of millions in secret bonuses Pep and his extended family have received via offshore accounts and shell companies.
Not a city fan but they aren't going to be found guilty. No chance. If they do, their league titles won't be taken away from them, it'll just be tainted
You could say it's already tainted even if they aren't found guilty. You can't be squeaky clean with over 100 charges against you, something fishy has definitely been going on
They were found guilty in the UEFA case, except it was time barred so they paid a small fine instead of a ban, but they were still found guilty nonetheless. I'd be absolutely shocked if City aren't found guilty of at least some of the 115 charges. The question is how many of the charges will stick and how severe the punishment will be
Yes I agree. That's why I don't care how many titles they win, it doesn't count because of the charges against them but also they're only the club they are today because of oil money. If they were already a massive club with history and titles and then an oil club bought them, that's a completely different story
"tainted" titles are titles taken away from them already .....
Can't take what they have won but will be tainted and go down as cheats and huge chance they would get kicked out of the premiership
I don't see how 115 charges couldn't result in a guilty finding? That would be insane. And if they are found guilty, the EPL/FA whoever have to take action similar to what we've seen abroad (in Scotland and Italy for example); relegation and stripped titles have to be seriously considered as options
That’s right rangers got absolutely hammered for it in Scotland, rangers didn’t lose any of their cups or title wins but the team got destroyed and thrown to the bottom of Scotland and had to work up 3 leagues, basically had to start again with just a £1 in the bank, and Man City’s charges are going to be massive compared to what rangers had. If they get away with it then what does that mean for every other team in football who have done this and never come back from it while city get to do what they like cause they are the best team going.. they are only the best team going because they’ve cheated
Keep praying
@@Thepresidentowens You too pal
They’re state backed they have too much power and influence outside of football.
Are you an idiot money didn't win titles the players did
If City are Innocent then why would they want to drag this out over a number of years? If they are found innocent on technicalities ( best lawyers) then surely FFP’s credibility will become completely flawed and possibly not fit for purpose and what about other clubs that have punished for similar (albeit on a lesser scale) but same offence, surely this would then become a legal minefield
it was the FA who bought the charges all 115 of them and City have the right to defend themselves for every single one 🤷♂️
We all know they aren’t innocent 🤣 but they will get away with it because money talks.
@@kevintwine2315 you actually don't know anything. You've just bought into the narrative. If the evidence was irrefutable they'd have been punished already, it wouldn't be going to an "Independent" review.
@@BurnCKCthey got found guilty in the champions league got a 2 year ban and a 30 million fine . Guess what ? They got away with it on technicalities. So they have a point. To many it seems all bought by oil. And yes they where still guilty the rules however had a time limit of 5 years so they dragged it out 😮. The prem rules do not have a time limit but I guess once the evidence is shown then others can use it . So it would make sense for cheating scum to only want to be punished and fined by one governing body 😮.
@@BurnCKC What a load of rubbish. Its a massive legal battle that takes years.
Even if guilty, they will get away with it, we’ve seen this so many times
Even as a city fan I believe if we are found guilty the punishment should be serious because you can’t break the rules full stop. That said there needs to be an overall reassessment of the FFP because like Gary said it was made to keep the big teams on top and make it difficult for other teams to catch up which in my opinion isn’t the way football should be, every fan deserves the right to hope that they too could compete at the highest level one day.
@@edenholt4394 dude you are on of the few city fans that are acknowledging the situation instead of trying to ignore the percussions?
@@edenholt4394 you are a reasonable person. When all this goes down and City get relegated, I hope you choose Liverpool as your premier league team...
@@coen8677 why would he switch teams? Plus it’s not about being guilty it’s about being proven guilty. I don’t condone cheating but it’s all up to the independent firm
@@Luke-ul3xf because the odds are he wasn't a City fan 15 years ago when the best they could hope for is 10th. Also, evidence was leaked back in 2018 that proved City was guilty... The files showed the owner pushed money into the club via the sponsors. That's cheating
Quick enough to punish the smaller clubs like Wigan Bolton etc
true, city should be punished quickly and have titles removed
Unfortunately Wigan didn't win the lottery when Mansour picked city's name from a hat. He pumped enough artificial revenue into their club over more than a decade to the point they're considered a 'bigger club' than Wigan.
The PL will quietly drop the charges . Many of the current City team bring huge commercial and football value to the Premier League as a product . The Premier League will be aware of that fact and won't want to lose that aspect.
That'll make the FA & Premier League look inept and only serve to make their brand appear weak. People won't tune in to watch a sham. People want competition and good football which City have provided towards the bigger clubs, but never at the cost of sporting integrity.
@@dragonballfanscantread2383 They only care about the commercial brand of the PL. The only reason they are doing this to City is because the UK government threatened to bring in an independent football regulator if they didn't.
No. They’ll drop them because city were innocent.
@@9751_yeah of course mate 😄😄
They'll lose all credibility if they do that. The only point Neville made that I agree with is that, one way or another there's a big loser here. Either City get slapped with an unprecedented punishment or the Premier League gets exposed as a paper tiger.
They can’t wait 4 years to sort this, aside from anything else the rest of the league need to know where they stand with FFP. Chelsea, Newcastle potentially Man Utd with new owners, will be wanting to splash the cash but no one will dare until they know the results of this enquiry. In the meantime the advantage City have gained by breaking the rules will continue to pay dividends for them. We need a decision immediately one way or the other.
Bro you said Chelsea like they haven't just spent 600m in one season
@dean burns Chelsea had over a billion worth of debt written off overnight so good luck with that one.
They aren't being charged with FFP and alot of the charges aren't financially related
As grumpy grey said, what chelsea Newcastle and united have done and what they will do is very different to what city are said to have done. City are said to have lied about their sponsors and their revenues. That's got nothing to do with the money they actually spend.
@Grumpy Grey lol, yeah they should report them to hmrc and tell them they have been over estimating earnings, therefore paying more tax then needed and get them a refund. Good one.
If city can get away with it once a few years ago then they can do it again. Liverpool have done things the right way and would have had at least 3 titles by some margin, also other clubs. Obvious they are guilty tbh
Victim
@@archiecannon5065 . Lol
@@archiecannon5065 relax your mouth and stop blabbing
@@archiecannon5065coward 😂😂😂
3:15 I agree with Gary that the idea of a local businessman buying his home town team and ploughing his own money in, Isn't a bad thing in its own right. BUT there does need to be protections in place. If you look at the example of Gretna FC in Scotland from about 15-20 years ago. Millionaire Brooks Mileson bought them and at the time they were non-league and playing to 100-200 fans each week. He signed a bunch of players from Scottish Championship (and lower end SPL) clubs and of course Gretna quickly romped through the various Scottish divisions in consecutive seasons, they even reached the Scottish cup final in 2006, and all the while you'd be lucky if they had more than 1,000 home fans at their games but they had a wage bill on par with clubs like Aberdeen or Hearts (who average about 15K-20K attendances) Ok so what's the problem? The problem is that Mr Mileson was diagnosed with cancer and died midway through Gretna's journey to the SPL. His next of kin decided that they didn't particularly want their inheritance money being used to fund a football club and they pulled the plug on it. So Gretna FC then found themselves having to pay a top flight wage bill on crowds of 1,000 fans. They of course couldn't and quickly went into administration and then liquidation and then no more Gretna FC! All because one man wanted to "live the dream" This is what could happen to any small/medium size football club if there are no FFP rules. The dream can very quickly turn to a nightmare if your benefactor ever decides to turn off the money faucet!
This is a sad story but it isn't about financial fair play. It's about financial sense. Maybe clubs just need reserves like banks. You need to hold enough capital to pay off the existing player contracts. Then, if this happens everyone gets paid.
But issue here is there should be a cap on ffp for every club and not limited to few clubs … so Chelsea spending more than 600M in last two seasons without winning any trophies gives them a lot of advantage over other teams .. same can be said about man united they spend the most in this decade but ppl argue that they are getting fund from huge fan base but in a way it is effecting other small clubs … so better to put a cap of 200 -300M per season rather than just going against city or any other such club
@@ashwing2713 You cant put a cap at 200-300m when most teams dont even come come close to spending half that kind of amount. The ffp is there to ensure clubs spend within their means, i.e spend in relation to what you earn to prevent issues like the Gretna FC example. The issue with a team like city is the fact they are cooking the books to make it seem like they earn alot which is ludicrous when they say they earn more that likes of madrid,united etc. The ffp is better than cost caps imo.
@@ashwing2713 you have to be careful with salary caps in my opinion. in the US the player salaries are capped and the owners pocket the rest. It is a good system for owners but player earnings are capped. Yes they earn a lot but could earn more in a free market system.
Great comment 👍
FFP was created by the established top European clubs to stop City and PSG from competing in the champions league. The problem is it filters down to everyone else meaning only the big clubs can spend big money, regardless of the wealth of the owners. The only way for FFP to work is if there's a hard cap that's the same for everyone, maybe with some kind of luxury tax allowing clubs to go above with the taxed money being redistributed to grassroots infrastructure.
Absolutely correct.. its to keep the Big clubs Big... and nothing else, absolute nonesense
They won't listen to you, even fans from smaller clubs praised ffp without realising they will never be able to compete. That's why they wanted the super league
The point is they have spent so much that now they only need to top off their squad. They also claim to have a higher gross income than Manchester United which is laughable. Its cooking the books.
Spot on
@@86Brasco bro the prize money they get is over 100m for winning the league
This sounds like a gilded age type of scenario. Old money vs New money.
FFP as it is now is problematic and does create a closed shop financially, but there’s an issue here being that City are breaking rules that everyone else are following. That’s an unfair advantage. They’re also only able to break these rules because they’re owned by a state. If everyone else could spend as much as they wanted, City (& Newcastle) could just spend more, and it would cause even worse issues for football competitively and ethically. Regulation is needed, needs to be made fairer though. Man City’s & Newcastle’s need to be allowed and able to become great clubs without becoming part of a nation’s propaganda wing/economic diversification strategy.
@@InArgCroitheGoDeo do you have proof of this? Can't find it anywhere
I'm sick and tired of all the fan's complaining about VAR, penalties and extra time heavily in favour of Liverpool and United all season and every year, while City as usual at the receiving end and endless investigations. Who's gonna investigate PL curruption
That’s a weird point from Gary. We all know clubs have periods of dominance. It’s just that city have got to that point illegitimately.
@@aymoji9479 Yeah, but he said Arsenal wouldn't win the league, so he's a genius. Let's all conveniently forget he said United would finish above Arsenal
I think he was answering a question that got cut out of the video at the beginning. The part where they discuss if this run is tainted came in later. I'm assuming he was talking about whether their dominance was bad for the league because it goes against the idea that the Premier League is the most competitive league in the world.
Allegedly
If I go and tell ppl your are an illegitimate son bcz you did well in studies and displaced toppers in your school will you believe .. same analogy can be applied here if you don’t understand maybe the above statement stays true lol
Many clubs have been reprimanded in the past for cheating does that make all their success after then also illegitimate?
I think scrapping ffp altogether is a massive mistake, why allow clubs that are backed by massive revenue to float even further away from clubs below them. Although I am up for suggestions in ways it could be improved
The rules themselves aren’t the main problem. It’s the way they’re enforced. UEFA let City get away with it before and the premier league will probably do the same. It’s a joke
FFP is literally doing the thing you state, removing FFP wouldn't do that. Removing FFP would make the historically big sides vulnerable though and that's why it exists. Newcastle got taken over and can't spend too much because of FFP. Why shouldn't they be allowed when their owner has > £100bn. Why do people only care about fairness now? but not in the 80's? or 90's? Fairness doesn't exist in sport.
Solidifying the historic clubs is a fair criticism but surely allowing a club like Newcastle to splash cash as they please is not the solution.
@@georgeyboy5256because then it would basically be pay to win if the richest owners could spend a crap ton more than their revenue if Newcastle could spend a lot of that 100 bill the league would be screwed
@@ruj1371 It's been pay to win since the invention of football. Why the sudden rush to change?
I love how gary just turns round and just stares at the camera zombiefied 😂😂😂
Gary Neville disagrees with FFP because of Salford City. Obviously not on the same scale but it’s the same in not just building the team but developing the club and the surrounding area. And also more interest in Manchester, the more interest in his hotels.
Yes, he should really disclose that he has a financial and personal stake in FFP rules before he discusses FFP here
If you think Gary and his buddies can put up the kind of investment required to buy a Premier League, with or without FFP, your smoking something. The rules are there to try and stop owners gambling a clubs future. Not to stop rich owners who want to invest in the area and team doing so. If FFP was truly followed then Man Utd would win every year until Anfield can be expanded. The revenue Utd and Pool bring in from around the world, sponsorships etc, eclipses anything other teams can achieve. Take Spurs, Newcastle, Arsenal, big stadiums, but shirt sales, sponsorships come with success. If you cant invest, you dont get success and the status quo stays the same. In that case you might as well have a super league
@@g.g.baxter4868 and I agree that outside investment should be allowed to challenge the status quo. But my comment was about Gary Neville’s opinion.
@@MaliciousAFC90 i accept that but hes been pretty consistent with his opinion on FFP and i doubt it has much to do with Salford. As for FFP Theres is no simple fix, take for example if they make stadiums protected assets, no own would build new or improve stadiums they dont own. I think its a joke that FFP allow the Glazers to stack 1b worth on debt onto Man Utd and drain the club of profits, but not let Newcastles owners spend their own cash, and i support neither team. FFP was always an imperfect solution that was required at the time, but needed to be updated and adapted as flaws were discovered. That hasnt happened and the FA and FIFA carrying on like its perfect is compounding the issue. If anything that benefits who Gary supports, long term. Think on this one, and i disagree with him a lot, hes spot on
@@g.g.baxter4868 You're correct to an extent. But saying the league would simply boil down to United winning every year is overly simplistic. You're allowed to have sponsors generated by success to create more wealth. Yet that ignores the fact city were given the sponsors on a platter from the midst of complete obscurity. After the takeover, the Mansours immediately made Etihad airlines their sponsor which they conveniently owned meaning they could effectively write their own contracts. The truth of how much money they actually pumped in will decide the case. But given the fact city have refused to provide accurate financial data or cooperate with auditors on 79 separate occasions and the fact that city went from mid table to having a squad worth over a billion in the space of ten years doesn't scream of an innocent club with nothing to hide. That's peoples problem with city, not purely 'they win more than we do' jealousy but that those victories came from absolutely zero hard work just pure financial injection from a 3rd party. Exact same story with Chelsea and Abramovitch.
If man city insist they are innocent, then why are a sizeable portion of the charges for failure to assist the league in their investigation? IF they were innocent, they would comply and show proof as such.
Why would you turnover information that you aren't obligated to. Innocent or guilty that would be dumb AF. Failure to comply is being contested because the rule to share information came in after the date of the charges, so that will be contested in court.
Because it’s bull. Premier league know that and that’s why they’re scared
Why would you assist any kind of witch hunt against you? UEFA and The Premier League have had it in for City since day one. FFP was literally brought in because of City. Half of the charges are subjective, such as sponsorship value, but the value is decided by two parties. It's absolutely ridiculous that anyone else can dictate what amount they think is correct.
That's not how it works you 14 year old
115 conspiracy theories. Go get a life already
FFP doesn’t stop small clubs growing they just stop them growing at a ridiculous rate an offering stupid wages to get players who wouldn’t join otherwise, that drives up the wages for every club in the process it happened when Roman come in an again with City, Newcastle have stuck to the rules with rich owners an bought decent players and r now in CL so it can be done if the money is spent properly
Absolutely, just look at Bournemouth. Didn’t they do what Gary is trying to do with Salford ?
a rate that is comparatively slower than the already established top sides lol... and Newcastle have stuck to the rules so far and as we know, and also only made top 4 (massive credit to them for that btw not taking that way), that's hardly proving that FFP doesn't stop smaller clubs improving a lot. If they spend loads in the summer and perform loads better over the next season then we know why.
really bad take, inflation always helps the big clubs way more than the small ones, growth nowadays is very hard bar a cheap team pulling off a miracle
Makes no sense. You buy a business and then get told you can’t invest any money into your business 🤦🏼
When Newcastle finished fifth in 2012 their team got picked apart because they didn't have a super rich owner, same with Leicester recently. It's impossible to sustain it over a long period of time without huge wealth.
Still waiting but apparently it's difficult to find any evidence of 115 charges
People did complain about Jack Walker, Gary. I may have only have been 14, but I remember it. And if twitter was around then, the complaint would have been louder.
Didn't really realise what Gary said in the first minute and a bit before. Great point tbh Edit: And the rest of the video now I've seen it as well.
Wow! Gary finally speaks what ive always been saying. FFP wasn't there to protect poorer clubs from the already rich clubs(like united, arsenal and Liverpool) but then when the richest feared competition they created the FFP to protect them from the cities and PSGs of the world. Unfortunately, the European football system is such that once you are an established revenue generating club there is no way for poorer clubs to compete unless they get cash injection.
Gary Neville has been saying the same for years.
If ffp wasn’t there every club would be on their knees for middle eastern ownership. That would literally be the only way to Guarenteed success
There is cash injection then there is NATION states pumping money into clubs - that is an entirely different ball game How do you compete against a country that has produces more money in one day than a football club can in one year?
Load of rubbish ffp is there to make sure your club spends what it earns u want Sunderland to win the league??? Start buying a Sunderland kit then and merchandise.
The Premier League is run like a boys club rather than a professional league. The NFL is the gold standard of professional leagues -- every team is 2-3 years from competing for the biggest prizes. There's so much parity. It's so competitive. And no individual is bigger than the league. And it's going from strength to strength. The model clearly works.
What a stupid question. It’s like asking if Lance Armstrong’s cycling victories have been tarnished now that’s he’s been guilty of doping
Gary Neville is doing the same thing in League 2 as Man City are doing in the premier league so there is no surprise that he is against FFP
FFP is useless
@@Fozykeno true
My respect for Gary Neville 📈 most sane dude on the tv
Lolllllllll😂 this comment deserves more likes
🤣🤣🤣 you do know that he’s got a problem with FFP because his beloved Salford City can’t blow all the EFL clubs out of the water
His agenda is Salford here. That is all
Finally sky are actually addressing this rather than sucking city off with this stuff still going on
Syy are trying to drum up custom I suppose you believed their narrative that liverpool fans were the ones who caused hillsbourgh by acting like animals
At this moment in time I’m watching Gary Neville
Gary "At this moment in time" Neville.
He's doing it on purpose 😂
Like you wouldnt believe
Whereby
FPL is necessary, City signed a contract knowing rules and then broke them.
Gary's totally missing the point as usual. All clubs could overpay before FFP, so in that sense it was fair. What Man City are accused of doing is overspending when others are playing by the rules and not overspending. He's also forgetting that FFP is in part there to prevent clubs going bust. The idea is that the club's revenues are there to support the cost of the team.
Most of city’s charges aren’t financially related lmao. They aren’t accused of overspending at all
@@Kxng_OExactly...the owners pumping money into the club via fake world record sponsorship deals covered that 👌
No it's the prem saying that city's sponsor ship was too high so that means they want to control how much revenue teams are allowed
@@Kxng_O It definitely is about Man City''s overspend. There are different ways to achieve. This includes pumping more money into the club than you should through dodgy sponsorship overpayments. Thereby enabling overspend.
@@paulbrickland9625 There were over 100 allegations. These weren't just about sponsorship. Just one other example is Man City understating how much one of their managers was being paid, which directly affected how much they could spend on players at the time.
I’ve said it many times. Manchester City have been charged with breaches 3 times in the last 10 years. You don’t charge a club with breaches three times unless they’re guilty. First time gives them the benefit of the doubt, second time makes it suspicious, third time makes it a pattern. City are guilty.
Agree. Totally
You gotta factor why FFP was created at the point that it was. None of the clubs City's success can be compared too had FFP limits to their spending. The Moores families money came from football betting, and Uniteds the rampant commercialisation of the sport. All FFP is a means of protecting largely American owners investment I.e. protecting their ability to take fans money out of the sport
Fair play to Neville. If these charges do t amount to anything even closely resembling what the PL is alleging, I hope City whack the PL with a defamation suit for damages in that nearly breaks them. If City are found guilty, their punishment should be commensurate with whatever it is they are found guilty of. There is tremendous jeopardy for both parties
Good summary
Here is something people are not thinking about. IF Mancity are guilty, there is no way the Premier League will say that to the public. That will ruin the credibility of the league and the Premier League brand as a whole. Also, people are ONLY concerned about this because Mancity won the league. If Mancity are struggling on the pitch, NO ONE would be caring whether they are breaching the rules or not.
It’s because they are breaching the rules that they are winning so don’t try and play the jealousy card.
You really can’t defend them in this
Only way the Premier League will publicly clamp down on Man City is if the government pressures them with the prospect of independent regulation. People starting talking about independent regulators, the EPL got scared, and publicised this whole City fiasco. Fans, pundits, journalists - we all have to put pressure on the Premier League to sort out these problems themselves, or someone else will come in and do it for them.
Exactly my point as well. No one would look at City twice if they finished top four-top six every year. But they dominate with beautiful football. These charges stem from jealousy and nothing else. The Premier League will look incredibly stupid when this is over.
@@GJ1500dlo well said. 👏🏻 unfortunately people need simple things explaining to them. 🤦🏼♂️
I know it's fun to talk about guys, but there's no mention of Brighton's success this season being 'tainted' by being found guilty of multiple FFP breaches last summer. Or Fulham, Forrest, Bournemouth, Villa, Everton, Wolves, Liverpool, Leicester or Villa when they were charged with FFP breaches. Or Leeds, Palace or Liverpool when guilty of spying on opponents, or Chelsea, West Ham and Southampton when guilty of illegal signings ....
There’s a major difference between what those clubs did and actively hiding a plethora of FFP violations for over a decade. Come on man.
@@Conorj398 they haven't hid anything. Half of the charges are subjective, like sponsorship value. Who are the Premier League to dictate the sponsorship value between two parties. The value is decided by the parties. It's not even as if City were getting deals multiple times the apparent "Market Value".
@@BurnCKC that’s just blatant misinformation and half truths. Feel free to go to read the athletic’s or BBC’s articles on the allegations. It is much more serious than how you are trying to make it seem.
@@BurnCKC The premier League are the absolute authorities on the matter actually
@@philbarton2832no the law courts are the actual authority on this
If Manchester City had an issue with FFP they should have taken that up with the FA and the Premier League. If they have circumvented those rules, secretly, while watching all their rivals struggling to stay within those parameters. That is cheating plain and simple and they should have the book thrown at them.
well these are just allegations at the end of the day
It SHOULD be a level playing field , ALL clubs allowed to spend a certain amount on player transfers only .... and then we'd all know where we stood.
These are allegations like UEFA did. 115 charges seems lot but those are duplicated charges for each year ,
There should be a transfer and salary cap for all players and staff at all clubs and players should pick the club they want to play for not the one that pays the money. All excess profit should be filtered down to fans in the form of cheaper tickets and better stadiums and facilities.
Everyone forgets they've already been charged and subsequently fined for breaching ffp back in 2014 this isnt the first time they've been brought up on something like this and we all know they've been inflating there sponsorships for years.
No they were fined for not cooperating with uefa because they could not prove that the illegally obtained evidence was true and by the way who's to say that wasn't planted
The charges aren't ticky tack like backhand payments to a former manager or something, it's literally several breaches of not disclosing the correct financial materials within the time window and then obstructing when asked to do so. So how do we know if the reason for hiding is as simple as paying the kitman too much or they overspent on transfers or wages. If that's the case then it throws the whole Pep campaign into doubt, not just this year. If they're found guilty they should be disqualified for each of the seasons the breaches were committed and honest teams should be awarded what's rightfully theirs.
City do NOT trust UEFA or the Premier League ..... this independent commission can view City's case and evidence, with the clubs blessing ... even though it's been appointed, and probably instructed, by the Premier League.
Can you name the charges?
@@tlangelanishikwambana8596 They're publicly available to go look up. Section B, E and W of the Premier League rules. I'm not going to list 155 charges just because you're butthurt your team cheats.
Don't talk silly you can wish but it won't happen
@@themarketm8382 you haven't read yourself that's why you can't name them you probably a sun reader
Let's be real. They won't be found guilty and even if they do, they'll only get a slap on the wrist.
Yep in the background they will create a circus an agreed fine and than play it out like it's real
I think you and alot of football fans will be having a severe wake up call once the hammer comes down on city.
If a lower league club breaks the rules they either have points deducted or relegated mark city pay
The fact is all games are played by 11 players and all those players are professionals, they say if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen,
Chelsea fan here - look, in all honesty if city are found guilty ( which is extremely unlikely) yes it will be tainted of course: but there are two sides to this. There's no doubt that they've broken rules but at the same time you cant take credit away from the players at city and the management from pep. This side is one of the best we've seen in years due to pep's management style and the quality of the players. lets sit back and see it unfold. chances are nothing will be done.
You can 100% take credit away, the team was built on fraudulent success for the previous 10 years prior to guardiola coming in and including him coming in. They financially doped to win and they 100% deserve to have their success tainted
True, Man City are incredible. But the point is that this incredible team and manager wouldn’t exist in the first place if they didn’t break these rules (assuming they are guilty). As u say tho I doubt they’ll get any notable punishment if they’re found guilty anyway.
Quality of players bought with an unlimited budget. It's called cheating. Complete disregard for the rules. Not an even playing field. It always comes down to the quality of the players on the pitch, the depth of the squad. I hope the book gets thrown at them for buying league titles.
@@seanmaguire380 They haven't they are spending less than other clubs, they just make the correct calls and dont waste tens or hundreds of millions on bench warmers
@@mikko3 Haaland was the most coveted prospect in the world with all the elite fighting for him but the reported transfer fee was 56 million when Sancho and Bellingham went/are going for twice the amount from the same club? And all those world class players in their squad but the third highest wage bill in the prem
All their titles have been tainted. Having rich owners is already a benefit, rich owners that skip around the rules all other clubs adhere to pump more external money into recruitment is corruption.
Well according to the FFP rules established in the last decade. God knows what teams like United, Chelsea, and abroad like Madrid, Barca, Milan were doing before such regulations came along in the earlier decades.
@@awfan221 true but they didnt break rules when FFP came into practice
I like what Gary Neville says and I like his objectivity despite him being an arch rival for city as a fan. FFP was created to protect some elite and demonize other clubs' spending!!! Even so as he rightly puts it, rules are rules and if found guilty City will face the consequences. If not, hurrayyyy!! However, the whole idea of FFP is contentious tbf...
He owns a football club, its nothing to do with his United loyalties
He's actually not objective at all because he has a financial and personal stake in Salford. So he is actively trying to change the FFP rules right now. If FFP rules ceased to exist tomorrow, he would benefit greatly. Im not agreeing or disagreeing with your/his point but, I just want to point out that he does have a personal bias in FFP rules that go beyond the United City rivalry.
I think the point that is being missed here is that FFP is only one of the charges and isn't the serious one. It's just the more well known charge that people can grasp. There's 151 charges against them involving money moving through off shore accounts, secret contracts held off shore... it's more serious than FFP.
@@b04620k Most clubs would. The only reason the Premier League even investigated City was due to pressure from the likes of Utd and Liverpool
@@I_am_Spartacus erm actually, FFP breaches are the majority of the charges. And the "115" charges are really the same 10 or so over multiple seasons.
A few years ago UEFA tried bringing charges against Man City but couldn't get the evidence because City refused to show them their financial books. Man City claimed innocence but refused to actually provide the proof necessary to show weather they truely were innocent or guilty. Only Man Utd have a higher net spend than City in the last 10 years out of all the top european clubs. But we all know Man Utd have an enourmous revenue fund to help them. The next highest net spend in the premier league is from Arsenal which is only half that of City.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. You think the Court of Arbitration for Sport, the highest level of sporting court in Europe, overturned City’s champions league ban because City refused to present evidence? Go online and read the report. I beg of you. City stopped cooperating with UEFA because UEFA began leaking their evidence to the New York Times. City presented all their evidence at CAS. Again, it’s all in CAS’s report, which is published online.
False . City proved to be innocent in the CAS court case City ignored UEFA because it was influenced by other clubs City were only fines for not cooperating thats it United has leaky stadium lower income it’s almost a dying club City has more income specially this year with UCL Cope with it 😂
Worth noting that in those 10 years, Man City have amassed roughly £1.5bn in prize money alone. Talk about net spend and revenues all you want but on that front City are a big club now. A 10 year old child has only ever known City winning premier leagues and getting to the latter stages of Europe. Eventually that adds to a clubs revenue, the United glory hunters of the 90's are now City glory hunters.
I think the onus might be on the accuser, not the accused. That's how it normally works.....
City can’t appeal to CAS as well.
As a city fan it’s just all the other teams fans who hate us because we are winning everything and if we weren’t nobody would give a damn. I still think city is innocent but if we r guilty then I would be devastated for our actions but if we are innocent and haven’t done anything then great
How many times did Utd break the transfer record back in the day? Andy Cole. Rio Ferdinand, Yorke, Stam, Veron, Van Nislterooy, Rooney, Carrick, Nani, Anderson, Berbatov, Mata, Di Maria, Shaw, Herra, the list goes on and on
You really don't get it do you. Man United bring in renevue for money. Man city one is fake renevue
Worst case scenario they get fined
Between 95-00 Newcastle spent *double* what United spent. In that time United won 4 leagues,1 Champions League and 2 FA Cups. You simply cannot compare that spending with City's financial doping.
Since 2018-2023, Man United have spent 3 times the net spend City have. You cannot compare that spending to financial doping
@@tomben6180 United have spent 8% more than City in the last 10 years. If you go back to 2008 when City were taken over they've spent more than every club by *far*. I am not 'comparing' anything to financial doping it's a fact that City has 115 charges against it.
@@jamesharper586 It’s also a fact City haven’t been found guilty of a single one of those charges. FFPR didn’t even exist and didn’t come into affect until 2012. City were champions by then and a champions league club. The boat was missed with City and they know it, it’s why the establishment have taken matters into their own hands with their harassment of City.
United were so far ahead of other clubs financially that Chelsea, Leeds, and Blackburn mortgaged their futures in order to try and compete. Blackburn's payed off in the short term but not long term, Chelsea got lucky that we found a knight in shining armor, and Leeds, well we all know how that turned out. Not to mention how they intimidated referees and had the media in their pocket. No club is sacred, no matter how sanctimonious their image may be
@@lorddiegocosta3307 And that’s just the way they like it, they want a monopoly on the game. They don’t want City or Chelsea or Newcastle challenging their order.
If guilty? It's tainted regardless.
You support a big red club
Only if guilty, rules are rules
@@tomben6180 Small by English standards white and black club.
@@samcurtisrobinson It's not just tainted by the allegedly rulebreaking amount, but also where it comes from. That dirty money from an oppressive regime is just sucking the life out of football. Pride seems to be dead in Prem if we don't see any sign of something else soon.
@@babylol8 dirty money all over the world mate. The world is a murky place. No billionaire has made their money 100% legit
So Gary Neville is frustrated that FFP makes it difficult to buy Salford's promotion from League One, as opposed to win it fairly over time.
Sky,Bt,ESPN all Censoring Comments that point out USA Owners conspired Super League UEFA banned City without Proof?😂
I agree that smaller club should be also able to compete with bigger clubs but not getting owned by countries and spending an absurd amount money all at once and destroying the competition. I think it should be a gradual success and obviously the better your results are on ths pitch the more you can spend
It's taken City 14 years to get to this point. How much more gradual should it be? 40 years?
@@BurnCKC It took them 3 years to win the first title in 2012 after being smashed 8-1 by Borough
@@BurnCKC you’re missing the point. It has nothing to do with how much money they have to spend. Newcastle has the same wealth as city. But if you spend above when the rules sale in comparison to your revenue, you’re just cheating mate. It’s literally a rule and until it’s changed they’re cheating and breaking the rules. They don’t go to prison for it it’s just a sport. But they should be fined and points deductions no different than we just saw with Juve
@@BurnCKC Doesn’t matter if it takes 5 years or 50 years as long as you’re spending your own revenue and not some sugar daddies
Your logic only applies if you simultaneously restrict spending on the privelaged clubs. If you're not going to do that then this "gradual" increase will practically never happen. Even if there's one miraculous season where a small club does the impossible like Leicester in 2016, the immediate next season the "big clubs" like united, liverpool, etc will just buy up all their best players, and you'll all say it's fine because they got the money for it selling t shirts. How can anyone gradually rise up in this setup? Either bring in proper FFP, or allow it to be a billionaire free for all. Anything in between only benefits the big clubs and maintains the money imbalance.
150+ charges - if not found guilty on at least one, then it would be very suspicious.
The fact theres videos of this the answer is simple. YES
They need to be punished like teams like Juventus get punished for breaking the rules
Jamie real question is if they are guilty why can’t Man Utd finish above arsenal then
You chose the correct username.
@@temporaryuseraccount0012 100%
Cos man utd are on the down ward spiral
The answer is: ABSOLUTELY
Bit rich of Gary to suggest Blackburn bought the league under Jack Walker yet his united sides spent large figures too, that only look small in comparison to todays prices
Veron was a Premier League record signing £28.1M 12 months later Rio Ferdinand became the most expensive premier league signing £29.1M Wayne Rooney was around £27M for a 18 year old
Saf spent less than Liverpool and spurs in his first five years as Manchester United manager. Newcastle spent twice the amount United spent between 95-00 in the period where we won the treble. We didn’t buy success.
@@Jackiiiiiiiii notice how you’ve conveniently split that up into two sections. “We were the second biggest spenders in this bit, and the second biggest spenders in this other bit” equates to being the biggest spenders over the whole decade as no one else could keep up. Undoubtedly you had a great manager and a good academy and did comparatively better than Newcastle and Liverpool considering what they also spent, the league was bought. Man United had already been spending pretty big before the creation of the premier league and were thus fortunate for the tv rights to come in. Then they spent big again rivalling Blackburn a team just coming up from division 2 who would need money spending to get them to that level and clearly wasn’t sustainable. Similar with Newcastle who had just come up and were trying to find their feet which was once again not sustainable. And Liverpool were trying to use quick injections to get out of 6/8th place. Man U came out money in before the prem, we’re able to sustain it at the beginning, eased off slightly in the middle when Blackburn and no one else could match their might. And the rich kept getting richer by finishing first and getting money from Europe, similar to how Bayern do it. If we’d have implemented the 50+1 we’d be a farmers league, it’s not until Chelsea pumped the league full of money that anyone could challenge the financial power
@@elliott1346 not reading a whole essay
@@Jackiiiiiiiii I know by the fact you’ve come here to reply twice and have seen how long it is that you will have read it but know it raises too many good points. Thanks for your concern x
If! Everyone knows they're guilty. The question is will they be punished and how heavy the punishment will be.
You’re gonna look like a fool when the charges are dropped 😂
@@9751_ why? Just because charges are dropped doesnt make them innocent
@@ebbeb9827 why else would they be dropped?
@@ebbeb9827 thats the whole meaning of charges being dropped lad 😂 maybe you should stop pursuing your dream of being an armchair lawyer, its clearly not working out for you
@@ebbeb9827 that’s such nonsense. Whether you’re guilty or not if they find you not guilty, you are not guilty. Same with real life cases. Mendy was cleared of all charges yet everyone still thinks he isn’t innocent. Do you understand how law works??
They tried once and failed they're trying again with the same charges.
Fake champions 😂
Didn't fail. City got off on a technicality which was time barred. If city are innocent then fair enough but as it stands these charges stand.
@@Trudonexactly, why would Uefa bring charges to court that you couldn’t legally use? If they were so guilty Uefa would’ve had a case instead of it falling apart and City getting a fine for being mad they had to deal with it
How their success be tainted if they cheated? How is this even up for debate?
Because that's what cheating does
It’s an open secret that City are def guilty, though I’m not surprised it’s taking time to get resolved as building such a massive case takes time and evidence is hard to come by when the other party doesn’t cooperate. I sincerely hope when the PL is ready to to go court, the case is air tight and City get fined and titles stripped off them. They’re a despicable club.
Unlucky!! 🤭🤭😂😂
Even if found guilty, City will appeal and the brown envelopes will be brought out
So City are guilty? How might I ask? What information do you have that the top prosecutors in the country don't have?
@Sam King those or horses heads. We are talking high stakes here
@@georgeyboy5256 How did Man City make more money than Liverpool and Real Madrid in 2021/22?
Without City it'd be United continued dominance, probably Chelsea in City's waters, maybe Arsenal here and there but it'd only be those two. Maybe Liverpool would be the only resurgence. That's still only 3 clubs. No investment no TRP no additional teams who can challenge no Leicester miracle. Premier league would still be behind Seria A. City and Chelsea were a blessing in disguise and FFP was a blanket to protect the establishment from any others competing with TV rights emerging.
I would say Arsenal and Liverpool previous winners and so that would make it different winners and more competitive league
Teams should be allowed to spend what they want that’s their money to risk. Look at Chelsea and PSG money just doesn’t buy you success.
Chelsea are the most successful club in England over the last 18 years....
Did you start watching football this year or something? The owners of psg literally made ligue 1 a farmers league and Chelsea have had the most successful period of their clubs history by spending money in the past 2 decades.
Very well said, Gary
How is it Juventus can be charged so quickly by Serie A. But the Premier League and FIFA keep ‘kicking the can down the road’?
because we're not guilty
@@stewzs9269 Guiltier than Juventus
Hopefully now the media in general will actually address the case and its implications rather than shying away. This aspect of things has been woefully understated.
100% it will
This is not a period..this is a team owned by a country with no limits
We all know they are guilty but you can’t beat a state like Abu Dhabi with the resources they have. If they do however get found guilty & titles removed, their ‘greatness’ should be forgotten about and never spoken as they’ve broken so many rules
You don’t know what you’re talking about mate. Hopefully you realise how foolish you look when the charges are dropped
And Pep should never be talked about being the greatest. Also to add Barcelona been cheating since 2003-04 after the referee scandal so anything he won will be scrutinised
It will always be tainted regardless of whether a court case finds them guilty or not, you only need an ounce of common sense and a brain cell to know they cheated.
We bottled it today but tbf we should be top coz they are just a bunch of cheats
@@tompeacock110 I take it your Liverpool as well? Or Arsenal?
Juventus just had 10 point reduction, meaning no Champions league football
It got reverse d
@@davidg7643 They looked at other charges they just got 10 points deduction again today
@@davidg7643 they’ve been given another one
People always talk about the funds but they havnt made many more crazy signings then the other big clubs ..ake was from Bournemouth, stones from Everton, he made them what they are de bruyne flopped at chelsea
Definitely would be tainted and I think the merits should be removed for the seasons they won when FFP was breached , in my opinion . But all other clubs should be investigated over the summer break to cleanse the air of club a or club b are cheating because they are breaching FFP rules which would only get into players heads and have a potential knock on effect on the season
Other clubs show their accounts and don't do 4 year delay tactics to get evidence time-barred.
They aren't being charged by FFP they are accusations and from the Prem and alot of the charges aren't financially related
No more tainted than it already is.
Tainted to who? Opposition fans? Lol. We don't need your validation
Ffp is supposed to protect smaller clubs spending money they dont have. City have endless money therefore theres no risk to the club’s future. Dumb rule
It’s not tainted anyway. Maybe in an admin capacity but not from a football perspective. Pep came in and made every single premier league team up its standards. Even in league 2 they’re all playing out from the back and playing short, which is all down to Pep. Arteta at Arsenal doesn’t happen without Pep, etc etc. you’d never want to go back and change that.
Wenger was playing that style at Arsenal when he joined. Just watch highlights or full matches of the '98 double winners. Vieira, Bergkamp, Overmars, Wright and Anelka... they were great. Then there was the Invincibles. You watch them and say "wow." Again, a similar thing occurred with Alex Ferguson's great Manchester United sides, particularly with the midfield of Beckham, Keane, Giggs and Scholes. They played wonderful football as well as being physically competitive.
You can't win an argument with city fans they only became fans in 2008
Even if they’re guilty, they still put an incredible side together. Something other money teams haven’t done.
'even if they're guilty of breaching over 100 rules allowing them to put an incredible side together........ They've still out an incredible side together'
define what your terms are of a greatsquad
@@DragonflyJones-mt1wm those charges have nothing to do with what city spent you melt 😂 . They also are from before peps era at city. Go do some proper research. FFP was implemented to keep the elite clubs at the top in the first place. Complete opposite of what people think they’re for.
Cheats
Wrong!!!!! If thay are guilty (which they are) they will have operated like no other club. Cheats!!!!!
Of course it would be tainted. If found guilty we know they spent a decade cooking the books to inflate their revenue stream’s exponentially to ensure they can compete and bypass FFP. It was basically the building blocks for what we see today and that’s a juggernaut of a club who have the best in class of everything. Let’s not forget that uefa have already sanctioned them for this too but they got off on a technicality. I don’t argue against the fact that this City team is the strongest the league has ever seen, however if found guilty of the numerous charges, it would pretty much invalidate the whole thing.
Rubbish. The football will never be invalidated.
@@bwright227 of course it would. The football would not even exist if they weren’t able to artificially inflate their revenue streams and grow the club to a level where it could afford the best in class of everything. Everything they did during that decade was to get to this point.
3 charges repeated multiple times to make 115. What a joke
Titles up to 2018 should be stripped and they should be relegated for punishment if found guilty
They're clearly guilty. It's just that the FA refuses to punish them. Money in the pocket, let's look the other way!
It's the unlimited wealth. They can spend more than anyone, other than Newcastle.
Why haven’t they then?
115 charges!!!! If it was 1 or 2 then maybe give them the benefit of the doubt but 115??? Shambles
The bulk of which are for non cooperation... ie not giving the PL the evidence that doesn't exist..
It's ok to admit you don't know anything about the case. Just keep regurgitating what you heard on social media
City have only been accused of 4 financial things. They have triggered 115 rule breaches in the Premier League handbook. If City prove innocence on just one, 30 charges go immediately. Way to go confirming you don’t know anything about it
Everyone always uses the “they haven’t got a huge net spend lately” excuse for city but cara is finally the first person I’ve seen talk about how they only got to the starting blocks because of the money they have to attract players and managers etc
But the money they spent is theres? No loans no match fixing they just spent money they have. Nothing wrong with it. Its ambition
Not to mention that their net spend isn't particularly high OFFICIALLY - Without a shadow of a doubt, they are spending double on wages but doing it through dodgy ways like they did with Roberto Mancini. I wouldn't be surprised at all if players like Haaland have random "Consultancy" fees going into his account, as well as his dad getting a few million a year just to keep the family happy.
@@infestationE15 fergie bought giggs family a house when he signed...the real problem is FFP...united won 14 titles because they had the revenue off 77,000 fans and a worldwide fanbase yet nobody was saying fergie had a huge advantage
@@damienbryan2832 FFP has nothing to do with United's dominance. FFP didn't even exist for 12 of those titles. Yes, United had a major financial advantage, but at least it was garnered through continued success and popularity. Not as a side effect of a nation state looking to develop their geopolitical ties and military allies for the inevitable wars that will arise from Middle Eastern tensions. Manchester City is a golden chalice standing upon a pillar of blood.
@infestationE15 you do realize that UK is 2nd after USA who perpetuate wars in middle east right? Not Saudi arabia.... look up who on top of United.... plus United, Real Madrid money generating comes from bullying in previous decades! Especially RM succes in 60s has huge scandals! So stop with the BS please! More to it, United and RM are done much worse then just to spend money like City did....
City need to learn a lesson
You need to get an education
I'm just confused as to why it's the US Dollar in the thumbnail
Sky loves emojis
The Question should be "what happens if they're not found guilty?" When it's clear they are. They have wealthy Royals pulling strings for them plus with football being the most corrupt sport they'll probably get away with it.
if we are found not guilty then we arent guilty lad. drop your agenda
@@stewzs9269 really, lad? Do you know how many guilty parties get away with it because of corruption until it's too late? AC and Juve weren't "guilty" then when they were found guilty later it was too late due to statute of limitations. When there's doubt, there's no doubt. City have enough money to drag this out on the courts long enough. Juve have only recently got deducted points when their fans said exactly what you said now. I have no agenda. I'm a neutral who knows how the world works.
It’s a silly question, really. *Of course* their success would be tainted if found guilty. It means they’ve had an unfair advantage and weren’t playing on a level playing field. That said, it doesn’t take away from the abilities and achievements of the players and the coaches. It’s them I feel sorry for, because they don’t deserve punishment for crimes they themselves didn’t commit.
You know what is unfair? Ffp 3:10
What team gets to spend money like Chelsea? Regardless of their failure, they spent sums way beyond but the focus is on a successful team and not the principle.
@@gwmcd for your concern Man United have spent more money than City so where is this success now?
Like football has ever been a level playing field. UEFA even changed the CL format so that the best clubs basically get a free pass to the knockout stages...
@@niharranjanbarik5031 They haven't, City have spent much more in the last decade.
City should not be allowed to play another season until all questions have been answered
In this moment in time; always gets me
Not one team has broken into the elite club cartel for over half a century since the 1970s in the "organic" or "right" way. The big clubs and their fans are just mad they thought they were signing up for permanent success and now there's competition
Absolutely spot on.