James O'Brien vs Israel-defending caller over aid worker killings in Gaza | LBC
The IDF has apologised for making a ‘grave mistake’ after the seven aid workers were killed on Monday.
Among the seven aid workers killed, three were from the UK.
They were named as former Royal Marines James (Jim) Henderson, 33 and John Chapman, 57, as well as ex-soldier Mr Kirby, 47.
The workers were killed while travelling in marked vehicles as part of the World Central Kitchen's (WCK) charity convoy on Gaza’s coastal road in Deir Balah, central Gaza.
The Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) has now apologised for the killings, as the force’s chief admitted it was a "mistake" that "shouldn’t have happened”.
James takes on caller Trevor, who believes Israel
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This caller is lost in Israeli propaganda.
He is the propaganda
This caller is 100% calling from a call center in Israel.
@@matthiasdarrington3271 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 very true
And you in Islamic propaganda
@@matthiasdarrington3271😂😂😂exactly 💯
This caller is the same as IDF - totally immoral
James O'Brien is logically inconsistent. He says that Israel cannot be trusted because they shot their own citizens by mistake. Name one single war in which a country has not killed their own people through ffriendly fire. James O'Brien also doesn't mention that Hamas Rockets are misfiring and killing Palestinians. Norris James O'Brien mentioning that Hamas is still sending rockets into Israel. how can you ask for a cease only from Israel this is such prejudice reporting
Please give me a list of attributes of a Devil, and let me know how many attributes does Trever have, that matches the attributes of a Satan.
@@NaramAnunnaqi-lk9fw there, there buddy, time to take your medication now.
@@NaramAnunnaqi-lk9fw the israeli flag
You support Hamas and that's shameful.
I was an Israel supporter for almost 30 years. This current escalation has opened my eyes. It was hard getting past my cognitive dissonance but I would just like to say that I was wrong.
Google the USS liberty and the dancing Israelis after 9/11. Take the first steps down the rabbit hole my friend
@@Osafune2 any other recommendations or stuff to read?
@@anon2916watch what Israel did to the USS liberty Bell and the lies, just so they could start a war with Cairo
Respect The hardest thing for any of us is to accept we could be wrong
@@anon2916"🎉the great war for civilisation" that really opened my eyes.
This caller is so blinded by propaganda, he refuses to trust his eyes.
I was surprised to learn this phenomenon 5 years ago in Libya. My neighbors believe Saudi n UAE funded TV channels and ignore what is happening in the neighborhood!!!😅
He may be a Mossad agent or having dual nationality like the British soldiers in the Israeli terrorist army.
He is not blind. He exactly knows what he is doing.
@@_NoobPlayingGames that's even worse, if true.
So much respect for James From Yemen 🇾🇪
Blindly defends IDF reports, blindly refuses independent journalists in the area, calls the British government"Your government", nothing but a stooge
Be careful James the powerful Zionist media control will have you sacked for talking the truth !
@@briandeveify you defend Israeli figures, why?
@@briandeveifyTotal non sequitur.
FYI, these are the same figures that the IDF have been using before now they want the ignorants to believe these figures are not reliable @briandeveify
@@briandeveify they are not hamas figures
Israel defenders have no regard for civilian casualties. This caller is no different
They are Nazis
They don't even care about Israeli civilians and IDF operatives.
The shocking part is that they have no regard for human life. They dont value the lives of the hostages.
This caller was simply Vile
What makes you say that we can't agree with Israel in this war without having no regard for casualties? That's a ridiculous statement to make. I think Israel has to root out Hamas. There is no other way to end this war. (Or Hamas could release the hostages). However that does not mean that we have no regard for innocent casualties on both sides. That's a really ill informed juvenile statement you made.
Trusting the killers to investigating the killings… What a warmonger
American Rachel Corrie killed in Gaza in 2003 no justice for her. Shireen Abu Akleh killed in West Bank 2022 no justice for her.
Thank you James. They can’t handle the truth. They’re delusional.
Boycott all companies that support Israel.
💯 % boycott Israel
Yeah, that would pretty much have a long lasting effects
@@nawawii3750it does. If you look at the worlds economy it’s very dependent on Zionist investments and loans. The economy is collapsing but they won’t show you that until it’s nearly at the end.
I started that from beginning
Why, if Israel falls, do you think hamas will just lay down their arms and all of a sudden become peaceful? 😂😂😂😂 are you that hollow. They will keep pushing.
No one can defend Israel after what they've done. Give the Palestinians their land back and leave them in peace.
That will not happen,the Israel project is almost done@@Trutsetyoufree755
@@Trutsetyoufree755they want to in exchange for their hostages held by Israel. Has Israel ever released hostage on humanitarian basis? Nope they try children in military court and now going to the death penalty. You are sick!
Well blooming said
@Trutsetyoufree755 why can't you ask Isreal to stop occupying land. That caused everything
@@Trutsetyoufree755go ask Germany for land to create israel . Palestinians have the right to resist occupation in every way!
A man of honor in a World without honor...Free Palestine...
the world desperately needs more journalists like James.
Except when he's blindly following starters line .this is the only subject he differs on after all .
If by now you don’t see Israel as evil it’s because you are too.
💯💯💯
Let's say "The Israeli government" to be precise, but yes...
🔥💯
Absolutely. I would say they are worse
Absolutely true 💯
Greetings from Ireland .. BDS apartheid Israel .. Free Palestine!
isn't it sad to see what a self-loathing Fine Old English Gentleman James O'BRIEN let himself become? he was raised by the colonizer and it took them this long to find any sympathy for the colonized...
Irish people have our utmost respect 🇮🇪
free Palestine is old joke
@@prismpyre7653I’m Scottish my wee mammy was Irish ☘️ & I too NOTICED it . One would think it’s still in US the shamrock ☘️.
Apartheid Israeli state - Free Palestine.
Imagine robbing a bank then saying you have a right to defend yourself from people who only want _some_ of the money back.
James you are amazing James. Keep revealing the contortionists of truth.
Imagine being British and calling a radio show to lie on behalf of Israel.
Based on what he said, where do you think his loyalty lies?
He said “why does your government support Israel”. And “we’re in a war”. I bet you he’s Israeli British. No loyalty to host countries.
Imago being British and calling for sharia law to be imposed in the UK.
😂
With all that religion of pieces, that will be only in due time soon😂 @@Adam-un6de
This caller is morally bankrupt.
Has no moral compass at all, I wouldn't be surprised if "Trevor" couldn't find his way out of a car park.
Must be a juwe
The caller is British. Not too long ago his sentiments about nonwhites, in his accent, were spoken by Britain's leaders.
His moral compass is spinning, just like P Morgan.
@@naathnaath6377compass quandary. I call him Piers Quandary
I was captain of my debate team in Highschool and this guy brought a tear to my eyes with how well he handles these brainless parrots
When someone with a brain "debates" these people, it just becomes absolutely comical.
When someone with high intelligence believes erroneously, it can be harder to convince them that they're wrong, partly because they have a much greater than normal capacity to rationalize their biases. The higher occurrence of psychological disorders in bright individuals really doesn't help here...I know from experience. When someone who rationalizes reasons to believe inaccurate information does so in a highly emotional state, it writes pathways similar to their neural net's normal logical reasoning pathways that will recall that emotional state when they're confronted with conflicting information, essentially infecting their future reasoning with their own previous rationalizations. TL:DR Self awareness and careful regulation of emotion and bias is key. Intelligence itself can in fact be a handicap.
@@auturgicflosculator2183aka psychopaths
They've gone through 76yrs of getting away with lies so they're in shock and angry it's not working anymore
James is brilliant. This caller is ignorant and no better than the IDF
I’m in a grocery store in Chicago and I keep on crouching and putting my hand over my mouth like I badly need to hide under a table. What an absolute shred
Well he doesn't really let the caller talk
@@yuval1588 What more does he have to say?? He makes it very clear that he'll defend the IDF no matter what they do.
@@MrSpanks yes, he has taken Israel's side just just like the host has taken Gaza's side. Nevertheless, the host kept disrupting and didn't let him talk.
@@yuval1588Ok well we're on YT comments, the floor is yours, you have all the time in the world. If you can successfully dispute a single point James has made, I will personally make a donation to an Israeli charity of your choice...
If you repeat a lie often enough , eventually it will become IDF.
If you repeat a lie often enough, eventually it will become Is...real.
@@naturealbumsa real lie, perhaps.
😂
Beautiful, well said 👌
😂
An extremely impressive James O'Brien in full flow. Magnificent.
Truly magnificent from James. So much to learn and exemplary journalism to understand the truth.
The craziest part is that Trevor thought he won this interaction.
The world is going into a dark place … all because of people like this caller.
Indeed.
Let's hope there's not that many of them
@@robertshipley6990 unfortunately, the world, specially the Western world is full of the likes of him
@@romanakhan4075 we got evangelicals out here that believe that way
@@romanakhan4075 He talked about how Israeli bombing the Iranian consulate in Syria trying provoking Iran into a war a war in which would bring America and other Muslim countries into
"I trust the Israeli military authority..." There you go. Absolute mush brain, this caller.
He's no different to the German population enthralled by the Nazi's
That's what he is, and most of them is.. Even pro-Hamas doesn't dare to say "I trust everything Hamas say".. they double check and compare the facts and rely on multiple sources! Pro-IDF is down there with the level of ISIS supporters, and maybe even lower
Spot on
Of course the other side of the coin is do you Trust Hamas figures.?..Everybody knows, or should do. Is, the first casualty of War is the Truth....
His brain is smooth af
James, it is a shame to witness there are still people dying to defend their crimes and pretend they are victims
Wow. That's now a masterpiece of a journalism
James is fast becoming a legend with his systematic dismantling of BS propoganda
He is a true Hamas lover Spokesman 😆
@@ERS2fast4Uactually he's reporting TRUTH & FACT unlike a lot of UK media.. that's why you're " confused "..🙄
@@ERS2fast4Uyeeessh another Trevor lover spokesman
@@ERS2fast4U Get off the internet, Trevor.
@@ERS2fast4U 31,000 dead, including 14,000 dead children. But keep deflecting to Hamas, who killed a mere 36 children in their military raid of Oct 7th. Clear Hamas is the greater evil. SMFH.
I don't understand how James can remain so cool and logical in the face of such extreme bigotry and hatred of Palestinians.
Because it's the only way to prove the point of our argument.. it's why he's the 🐐
Its not just the Palestinians they hate, its anybody who challenges the Israeli zionist narrative, be they christians, muslim or Jew. It was allegedly supporters of the friends of Israel that hounded her governments legal opposition and the tories to hound out Jeremy Corbyn and the Jewish Supporters of the Palestinian two state solution
Google ‘poll 72% palestinians’. Funny how YT delete and warn for hate speech when poll results are posted that people dont like. This whole comments section is a giant echo chamber because pro palestine propaganda is the only view allowed.
He’s cool because he won’t let lies ruffle his feathers.
James is a saint
I'm not usually a fan of James o'brien but he wiped the floor with this dude.
It's hard to talk to brainwashed callers and ones who've literally defaulted on answering questions
The caller and IDF Genociders' only source is ''I'm victim, believe me''😆
Always victims and whining liars.
IGF
the same goes for Palestinians who support hamas a terror organization.
@@moyrablackie1reminds me of scousers…
@@catharine2262 😆
2 million unarmed civilians of which are 40% of them are under the age of 15 are on the brink of starvation!
So..?
@@stephenmurray2851so it's horrific and killing those trying to provide food is disgusting surprised you need telling so
Whilst the Hamas "leaders" hide in their luxury homes in Qatar and pocket the stolen aid money meant for the "starving children"!
@@kiranbarrow4648 But it's not disgusting. It's an accident. I'm surprised you need me to tell you that.
@@stephenmurray2851I’m surprised you fell for that excuse, how do you accidentally fire rockets not on one target not two but three targets which are clearly marked vehicles of the aid agency on the roof , with advance coordinates provided to the IDF of there location . If that’s not intentional then I don’t know what is. But hey at least it was mission accomplished, the aid agencies are evacuating and as a result one of the aims set out by the Israeli government of starving the people is coming closer to fruition
Without you Trevor, I’m nothing…..😂😂😂😂😂
The attempt at mental gymnastics from this caller is insane.
Trevor with a British accent: Why does "your" government support Israel James? He probably feels more Israeli and less British. Absolute warmonger who has no respect for human life, including Israeli hostages.
They're the enemy within
@@y2k42y2k42Care to elaborate?
Many Israelis, for historical reasons speak with a British, (not English) accent.
@y2k42y2k42 the worst kind.
Shhhh! Suggesting this man with dual-loyalties may in fact have dual-loyalties is antisemitic, apparently.
This caller has zero intrest in the truth
James O'Brien is gonna teach a lesson of Truth to those hasbara trolls
Bravo James, complete dissection and without breaking a sweat👏🏼
This is a case study from James on how to deal with all Zionists
totally perfect statement!
A masterclass rather than case study
well said..
Another weasely caller. James has so much patience.
He allows Trevor to expose his own sickness.
thehay - You and your govt are disgraceful for the support you continue to give the murderers. Too little TOo late to pretend you are bothered. You facilitated it and with US have supported it for 100 years
well he has to-- since he has proped up all the same BS narratives in the past himself
You got that the wrong way around its weasels james.
@@MiltonMoJunctionwhy do you support a murderous apartheid regime that has targeted and executed your countrymen, former British servicemen at that.
It's so sad because there are millions of people thinking exactly like the caller.
Naah they are a lot fewer and more are waking up
Thanks for being fair and honest James
Im surprised trevor didnt accuse james of anti semitism
That Tory councilor (Jeremy) that tried slinging that word around with James got ate up. They do sound alike though, putting those same hasbara lies out there, yet sounding desperate & hysterical because it doesn't work anymore.
I was expecting him to call James hamas 😂😂😂😂
I was waiting for that word to come up in the conversation but it has already been flogged to death for years
😂😂😂😂😂
😂
Three separate cars, all marked as a charity, all known to Israel and approved to travel.
Have you ever heard of the perpetrators of a crime investigating said crime ???
@@josephineburke3995 Happens all the time in the US. Police constantly investigate themselves and find they did nothing wrong.
Ruqaya Ahmad Odeh Jahalin, four, was shot and killed while she was sitting in a car by Israeli occupation forces on Jan 08
@@jdsullnot surprising given many US law enforcement officers have been trained in Israel
Reported as "the bullet found its way into a young lady's body". And I think she was 3 years old... 😒
Well done James, the apologists need to be challenged.
James you’re an absolute legend as always
Also, stop calling them casualties. These are innocent victims of war crimes. No one calls the Israelis killed on Oct 7 casualties of war, they call them victims of a war crime or terrorism. Similarly, the Palestinians being killed in Gaza are victims of war crimes and terrorism.
They want to dishuminise them as much as possible
I can live with that. It means that both sides are as bad as each other. Sounds about right.
@@Mike-tb5gjNot at all. One side is being occupied and victimised, the other is oppressing and crying victim!
@@naeemahmed5236 Hamas were elected by the Gazan people in 2005. Israelis who lived there, withdrew and their troops that were there, also went back into Israel. Hamas was/is Gaza's Government. What occupation? It is a myth, spun to deflect from Hamas' continual attacks on Israel, which they vow to eliminate, along with all the Jews in the world. Do you not listen to their announcements? This is exactly why a "two-state solution" cannot be achieved - Hamas do not want two states - they do not want Israel to exist!
@@Mike-tb5gj Hamas was created and supported by isreali??? Why did you leave that part out. If it’s not an occupation then why are they being denied basic human rights. Why can’t they travel around their own country??
This caller is a shameful human being, and I hope he is reading through all the comments left on here.
No, they don't read anything bar propaganda from the IDF
Off topic - reckon you'll catch up to Liverpool?
Talking to this caller is like drilling teeth without novocaine, I admire James' patience.
Imagine people like Trevor being in charge of making objective decisions in life
These Israel supporters are all the same. This one sounded like he was crying by the end. Absolutely pathetic.
"They are all the same" and you claim not to be a bigot
@@KingofEverything1 he said Israel supporters not Jews.
These Hamas apologists are all the same
@@Shaun-sh1op Nice try, but your BS propaganda doesn't work anymore.
Trevor making false claims about "UN figures"
Piers Morgan, watch and learn, this is how journalism is done .
James is a journalist. Piers is a talk show host like jerry springer who does thisi for ratings .
I say, do you condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization or not? Yes or no, and remember, zero context no follow up, history began on October 8 2023... Piers indeed.
Could not answer a single question, and could not maintain a single position!!!
❤ James' quick wit and clever line of questioning. Keep grilling them for straight answers!
Trevor got absolutely tied in his own knots of propaganda, this was quite the masterclass by James.
It's amusing to watch but it's also alarming that you have so many of these stooges that follow the idf/isreaL talking points and even regurgitates them.
And they do believe them. It's incredible how people with families, jobs, responsibilities and decisions to make can fall soooo deep. Then the more they struggle to prove their zio and iof buddies' lies, the deeper they go...
James handed Trevor a match....Trevor bought a ton of dynamite.
dual citizenship but loyal to only one!
This is not a war please stop calling it so it’s extermination
Another word for "extermination" is . . . . 🤔 I guess that 'get out of jail free card' is now all used up🙄
In some parts it’s called a resistance 🤷♂️, it’s the subjective use of language for political ends.
@@col.hertford9855and the reaction is the equivalant of Britain obliterating Northern Ireland and it's people to rid it of the IRA. Inhumane and illogical.
IDF acting worse than Hamas these days. These IDF defenders are no different.
The standard of this caller explains why we have the type of politicians we have in power... No brain cells
9:15 'Your government.' The caller must be a Israeli citizen. 🕊️
100%
Israeli intelligence makes their acolytes call in and argue with ?James as a final test or exam of their propaganda and arguing skills.
Are they from brooklyn 😂
@@nicholawilson8555 Where’s Brooklyn?
@@robertcottam8824 Brooklyn, Israel
This caller is so biased he does not even hear his own words.
Not like O'Brien.
I just discovered LBC and after one phone call, I think James O'Brien is the best I've ever heard. Thank You !!
Unfortunately most LBC presenters turn a blind eye to Israel's behaviour.
It’s so baffling people find it so hard to confront their own truths, and would rather prop up their narratives than live in reality
Delusional caller
Chilling that the caller airily mentions 32 000 civilians killed and sees that as perfectly acceptable in terms of percentages.
The thought do them walking amongst us is utterly terrifying. Fortunately they all live in London.@@thebeatcreeper
@@zebedee6296I've been saying that since the start. Monsters are everywhere.
Yep. Guy's a homicidal creep. 30,000 dead? Meh...
Because he doesn't believe it. He thinks it's just rhetoric.
Absolutely destroyed by his own words 🤮🤮
This caller lies to himself, won't answer a straight question, and it's plain he knows it. The 'acceptable' numbers are actual human beingsWhat a sad individual
James OBrien has destroyed this gullible and incompetent caller with clear intelligent questions and comments. This is a lesson in disarming ignorance at its best!
This caller is British Ben Shapiro.
Elon levy?😂
I hope the caller is having a reality check and that he learned something from encounter.
James is brilliant.
Brilliant. You destroyed the caller...👏👏👏
Trevor really is disgusting
He is another planet 😢
Why because he’s telling the truth
@@scorpi972you believe he’s telling the truth?
Trevor tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth at the same time…and trips every time!
Beware big-nose trolls.
About 30,000 Ham-@$$ fighters and over 30,000 civilian victim's how does it makes sense?
And this is way I love JamesO Brien!!!
Trevor said "Why did your government support Israel". Not "our government". He's not British.
They're the enemy within
That's exactly what i commented on .
These people don't have any allegiance to UK it's all about israhell
What a great question…a great triple edged question…
He also said "we're in a war"
Ask Trevor what he does for a living, I KNOW. He's another Israeli Spokesman whos told to phone in whenever he hears thing critical of Israel, they have hundreds of them.
He must be from the idf. That's why his voice seems as if he is going to burst into tears because James cleverly cornered him with his incisive questioning.
They also have troll farms using 1000s of sock puppet accounts to peddle lame talking points.
Ppl like James make me believe that justice stil means something
A complete masterclass James! Prayers and blessings your way!! And prayers for all those innocent lives slaughtered before us. A very sad and unbelievable state of affairs.
I had a Lebanese friend whose country was invaded as a kid. He told me stories of doing a bread run for neighbours while being shot at (as a child) by Israeli Occupation Force snipers. Almost every day. I didn't believe a military would be sniping at children, and he told me he was there. He was paid money by his starving neighbours to run the gauntlet. He also knocked birds out of trees with a slingshot to get meat. And he told me about F16s flying low over an abandoned football stadium where kids played just to intimidate them. I couldn't relate to this. Probably still can't, really. I have loads more stories from him.
I've worked in Lebanon for a while, some of the people I worked with had similar stories from when Israel invaded.
The abandoned football and flying low to scare kids, I have heard that from an old colleague. He used to live in Lebanon as a kid, and he said Israeli jets would fly low and create sonic booms to scare kids.
Lebanese here. These were our childhood memories, not stories 😢
@@aaquib90they still do that
IDF lie to cover their crimes
Shame this scrutiny was absent over 30,000 dead humans ago.
Agreed
Many more are not counted yet. Many are still under rubbles
Scrutiny was available years ago,anyone highlighting was called an antisemite
I dread to think how many the final numbers will be, if we ever do. There still is starvation and sickness, people losing ongoing medical treatment for things like cancer etc to be taken into account 😢 I don't believe we will ever get a true number.
and they dwell on that extremely lowball BS figure for fatalties rather than the millions slowly starving right now
Poor Trevor 😂😂... arguing against himself😂😂... well done James
Ridiculous to think that there are stil people believing Israel
Why you don't believe it? Seriously, from an open minded israeli
@@Omri_R Israel has been caught lying and defending the indefensible too many times.
@@Omri_R Because they lie and don't let anyone investigate their lies, simple!!
@@Omri_R because they have lied since their inception.
They are liars. Even Jesus called them out for their lies.
Literally no logic. A demonstration of a complete lack of humanity. Hypocrisy.
Poor Trevor. He knows he is wrong but he refuses to admitted.
I have to say that James is a Top honest man..Respect.
What a great "punch" James has given to this blind defender of Israel
They are all blind. They must be.
Absolutely 👍👍👍
It took a bit but James has really seen through the bullcrap
We r not blind its the complete opposite!
@@mystery8207 Took him months.
The caller ducked and dodged every single question and twisted himself into a pretzel trying to justify his bias.
Pretzel has the right to defend themselves against Israel.
‘Pretzel’…😂😂
@@Murad-qr9jw🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
i actally saw a video detailing how they train people to do that !! like journalists and tv hosts and all kinds of people ! its a bit facinating how they try so hard to misguide the eyes of he world
@@Hasan-yj3mv The art of gaslighting!
Thank you James O'Brien for this wonderful independent an honest journalism.
Why did he refer The government as "Your Government" ?!
He also said that WE'RE in the middle of a war so I'm guessing he's Je Wish
Trevor… what a chirpy guy….. full of himself…. Can’t answer a question…
You’d think they’d eventually run out of callers like this?😁
Sounds like the front bench of the opposition!
Israelis = White ! Palestinians = Brown ! That explains the callers point of view.
In reality, many Israelis are in fact brown (i.e. Mizrahi Jews), but they're rarely the ones we see in government or in the propaganda footage.
@@GregOrCreg Yes I know, Ethiopian and Somalian jews etc. But if you have to qualify every two line comment it gets a bit..........😢
LOL Hack, more than 50 percent of Israelis are brown whose parents and grandparents were expelled from Arab countries
Might be. But he's Israeli British. Which is why he says "your government" not "our government"
How do you know what the caller thinks? Sounds like you are revealing how your own mind works.
Absolutely brilliant James. Caller acted as a victim after he was absolutely dismantled.
James. The world needs more people like you.
This caller is the problem with this debate. Logic is not something they comprehend.
😂😂😂😂 Well said
Way to set this caller straight James. 👍👍👍
wasn't just 'some' caller, clearly one of the IDF mouthpieces with a script in front of him...
It’s extraordinary that the caller managed to not answer a single question in 12 minutes.
James your brilliant listening from Canada, you call it how you see it
Trevor is there to push his narrative not to answer any questions.
Trevor is a liar and a defender of immorality
Our Trevor made a lickle slip there.. he said "Your Government", not our government when referencing the UK.
They all seem to expect to be given free reign to spread mindless talking points without any probing or any push back. They are literally appalled that some people dare to take them to task, all of them. One even said the interviewer should be taking their side. Their media must be telling them that the whole world is on their side.
@@nazirkazi2588 YES! That is what l heard also. Now, the question is who is Trevor's government 🤔 Any idea?
@@Ntuthu-ZA Elyon Levy's replacement David Mercer said that (if l remember well).