Exploring TheC64 "Maxi" Full-Size Commodore 64 Replica
We take a deep look at the new TheC64 full-size: how is it for programming in BASIC and assembly language, how does the keyboard and case compare to a real C64, and how is that new joystick for playing games? We'll also look at a couple workarounds and hacks, and deal with some of the (minor) controversies about the product. Also, we look at the new Christmas-themed shoot-em'up, Santron, by Sarah Jane Avory. And Santa himself makes a strange appearance at the very end.
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Links:
Santron: sarahjaneavory.itch.io/santron
Full manual: retrogames.biz/thec64/support...
Turbo Macro Pro: turbo.style64.org/docs/table-o...
Minimal TMP: 8BitShowAndTell.com/prg/tmp.d64
Blank D64: 8BitShowAndTell.com/prg/blank...
Blank D71: 8BitShowAndTell.com/prg/blank...
Blank D81: 8BitShowAndTell.com/prg/blank...
File to enable REU hack in TheC64: 8BitShowAndTell.com/prg/snaps...
Index:
0:00 Intro and disclaimer about my involvement in TheC64 and C64DTV
2:25 Comparing with real breadboxes - colour, size, ports, weight!
5:50 Comparing the keyboards
9:15 Improvements over TheC64 Mini
10:33 Power it up and configuration 50 Hz vs. 60 Hz - important!
13:30 Carousel mode
14:05 Impossible Mission - The Pitch Controversy & Workaround
16:15 Display mode
17:40 Device Settings
19:26 Classic Mode - BASIC programming
22:52 Using TheC64 without a joystick - keyboard controls
24:56 Assembly language programming with Turbo Macro Pro
26:40 Virtual Super Snapshot cartridge
29:28 I want a reset button please
31:36 REU hack
35:10 Would I use this instead of a real C64?
37:00 Playing Santron - new Christmas-themed shooter!
41:36 Thanks to my Patrons
THIS is how a video/review should be done. Glad to see a reviewer that knows his stuff. Finally something else than 10 print "hello", 20 goto 10. I do hope Retro Games improve firmware based on your suggestions. I would give this video 10/10 but WHY did you mention about the 0 key not aligned properly ? Now I cannot sleep at night ;)
Agreed Jan. What an awesome video - Merry Xmas
Actually seeing 10 print " hello" in EVERY video made me laugh each time ;) Delivery in the Netherlands has again been postponed, now it's december 31. I do hope they will add a 50/60 forced choice in a future update. I only have one tv, older Sony Bravia, so if it decides to choose 60hz automatically I'm screwed :-/
I will save this video for later, when I purchase one. I need a way to transfer programs from a floppy disk, to a thumb drive. I have hundreds of programs on 5 1/4. Many are programs I wrote, so I can't get them any other way. Any suggestions? Oh yea, I have several c64 and 1541 drives.
@@vbrigham Either use an SD2IEC (copy to blank d.64 image), same with a Pi1541, or get a Zoomfloppy device and use that to copy your disks to a PC with the correct software. I am sure there are other ways, but those are what I have used (and writing d64 images to real floppies as well).
At www.nedgame.nl/afbeeldingen/the-c64-microcomputer/screenshots/3_5066541970.jpg I see a perfect aligned '0' on the zero-key. Perhaps this picture is of a new serie/batch of C64's?
26:59 "so you know I'm not violating any licenses. This is, THIS IS MINE."
The license is money without job...
I would have really loved it, if they had kept the old power-flick-switch - it was so iconic (to me, anyways).
Yeah why would they not do that? Never mind i dont want a preyellowed one that infact is more expensive than a working original...
Excellent video, its refreshing when someone with actual knowledge provides a balanced view of these products. And I definitely think a PAL vs NTSC gamer competition should happen!!
Well said..! Too many people around the internet going on about Raspberry Pi is better.. Really? this thing looks like, and feels like a genuine C64, and as this video proves, it's emulation is so deep it even does assembler/machine code programming perfectly I just got one of these, as I remember them from 40+ years ago selling and using them, and it seems perfect (except for the lack or original ports in the back ;-) ) , and for general use; game playing, brushing up on basic skills, reliving the past, this machine is more than perfect.....! It's a fantastic new computer for hobbyists wanting to tinker with newer USB/HDMI equipped hardware, or the general 'target' audience, to relive those old memories - even down to typing-in endless pages of programmes only to get "syntax error" messages all over... but they can be edited, fixed, and then saved to a USB stick just as they would have been saved to disk years ago. It's a real feel-good machine that love these older days of computing, and yet is still totally relevant today.... ;-)
I can't like this video enough because of the TMP+REU instructions. Thank you so much!
I don't know why it took until now to sink in, that you had worked on the C64DTV. This just makes mine so much more precious to me.
I second that!
I have five. I treasure them
@@WarrenPostma Well, I only have the one... so I guess I'll just go view it through a kaleidoscope then :P
This was an excellent review, answered all my questions about using this as a basic machine. With the built in keyboard that seems like the big draw, yet all the other reviews I've seen have glossed over the keyboard and basic, which made no sense. This was great!
I'm so tempted to get one of these. I'd love an Amiga 500 done this way, too :)
THEA500 Mini is coming out later this year!!! It doesn't just emulate an Amiga 500, but an Amiga 1200 as well!
A great exploration of TheC64, Robin. I've watched quite a few reviews but yours covers details the over folks missed. Great video. Well done!
The clicks of the micro-switches on the joystick provided untold amounts of joy in me :D
Oh man, these videos are so good. The voice is so pleasant. The information is just spot-on. There is a jump-to section. Really nice. Bless the internet that something like this is made.
that's because he's got a cold... Wait till you hear his actual voice :)
Many Many thanks for that "different to others" review! That's exactly what I was looking for! Merry Christmas! Greetings, Doktor64!
Thank you so much, sir! i'm doing a Zelda game for thec64 and really i was needing a blank disk like those D81 formats. i've watched your video and now my problems are solved. great, you're awesome!
Its amazing to see how involved you have been with this community for almost/over 20 years now. Personally i show up to see weird old hardware, but its not often someone is as skilled and interesting as you can be. Loving the content!
Your channel is great. I'm so happy I found it. Best regards and happy new year.
Chuck Peddle (1937-2019), rest in peace.
C64 TEAM STAFF -REAL GENIOUS
Loved this video and for the record, I didn't feel you were biased one way or the other. I found your review very objective and informative. Thanks so much!
Excellent review. Love the song at the end too.
Mine is coming next week :) Haven't been this excited since I was 8.
Great, in depth review! Was waiting for this
I spotted these were being made and was thinking of getting one for my 50th... got a C64 here in the uk when they came out, how I loved it back in the day. Many thanks for a great review, didn't think it could do all that.
Thanks Robin, this is the review this machine deserved. May I suggest to tryout, in eventual upcoming videos for thec64, error codes, original bugs, easter eggs and fastloaders?
I love your content 8-bit guy! You are a powerhouse of c64 knowledge. God bless you
I've heard that differences in size comes from the VIC 20, which align perfectly with theC64 Max. There must be some Commodore 64 batches in VIC 20 frames, maybe the firsts.
There were a few different sizes of theC64, there was another youtuber (cant remember which one) who showed them next to each other - thec64 is matches that one.
@@francistaylor1822 8bitguy?
@@medinachete73 might be
Awesome review. Thank you!
Hehe. very nice ending, Merry Christmas Robin, well done :)
BIG WOW. Great "Reintroduction" of this famous computer. Real blast to watch and admire! Never thought a toy from my childhood be so popular! I played with assembly on it in early 90's. But soon to be forgotten and replaced with i686...
Happy New Year Robin! Great video as always, probably THE best The64 review online, and it's going to help sell a lot of The64 because you really do know what your'e talking about and hack into it. :)
I'll definitely use this and your other Q&A video as references when I get my C64 Maxi, great review!
Great coverage and information on getting the assembler running with 512k. I guess you could just save a state on The C64 once all set up? You also asked what advantages The C64 has and why you might choose to use it? I would add a huge feature (which you said you’d save for another time) is it also has a Vic 20 inside. If you are short on space, or want a better Vic output on a modern TV, The C64 does a good job here. :)
This is an INCREDIBLE review! Saved all your The C64 videos to watch again and again. Thank you!
Thank you for the best C64 review on KZhead. I just love your channel. I really appreciate it when someone on KZhead really knows what they're talking about. The fact that you're sharing your knowledge here is greatly appreciated.
It's not a C64, it's an emulator with half-decent keyboard.
@@NuntiusLegis Well. You're kinda right about a few things. It's not a C64, it's a "TheC64". And yes. It's emulation. I have two 64c's and two breadbins so I understand what you're saying about the keyboard. Still I can't help liking TheC64. Now I can lie on my sofa and easily program in Basic on my living room TV. I used to do it with a real C64, but TheC64 gives a sharper and more stable image with HDMI. It's all in good fun.
@@baardbi Ordinary PC with VICE plus keyboard with C64 key stickers also works on the sofa and is way cheaper. ;-)
@@NuntiusLegis Absolutely. I just need to get those stickers.
I was looking forward to this! Great review, thanks! :) And pretty good SHMUP skills as well if I might add. ;)
Amazing pro review. Looking forward to you take a look at vic-20 mode. Merry christmas.
Excellent review, Robin. A couple of things, that I wanted to know about it were mentioned. Back in the 1980s, I liked to play David‘s Midnight pinball. That is now possible, too. I might still wait a bit, but finally, I want to get one, I think.
Simply one of the best reviews I've ever seen. Thanks. In my declining years, some things that gave me great joy when younger are coming back...The C64...going back to the Moon. Too much to hope for another Golden Retriever puppy? Time will tell...
Most thorough review I've found. Thanks for making this!
Great review mate! Super informative and detailed... especially with the icon placement on the keyboard, it's going to probably bug me now! Looking forward to getting this for Christmas and writing games out of the old c64 books. Happy Holidays!
Probably the best technical review I found on this device, Thanks a lot !
What a great video and the ending was very heartwarming.
Loving your videos so far. They are very informative and well built. You are totally spoiling us. 😂😂😂
Great review. Thank you
Nice review. That Wasteland box in the background though...
What a brilliant video. This is not just a review, but it's a wealth of tips and tricks and pointers to info...
The 'brown rainbow' of C64 colours! 😂
Would a rainbow of brown candy be called Shittles?
@@mal2ksc I'm not sure the marketing people would go for that, but a C64 themed bag of skittles would be ace.
64 shades of brown.
9:00 From the 'for what it's worth' department; my unit, delivered 6-weeks ago on October 29, 2021, has a serial number 48,535.
I'm not at all in the market for one of these but I greatly enjoyed this examination of it.
Fantastic review. Fantastic.
17:20 the infamous scream also used in another absolute classic game 'Beach Head 2'. The sounds/speech in that game were also incredible!!
Very informative review!
A fantastic review, many thanks for showing what THEC64 is really capable of 👍🏻
(Almost) comprehensive review!! Great and very informative stuff! Now if I may ask a couple things not covered here: 1- How faithful/accurate is the emulation? How does it fare with running hardware limit-pushing and demanding demos and other taxing software of the sort that rely sometimes heavily on specifics of internal workings and quirks of the original machine? 2- Is the joystick useable as a standard USB joystick? Can we plug and use it on a PC (great to play with other emulators), or is it exclusively working with theC64 Maxi? Thank you loads for this excellent review!
Great Review and you earned another Subscriber! I haven't messed around on a C64 since the mid to late 80s. I look forward to picking one of these up and re-living my childhood memories with playing the C64 with my Dad and starting to dabble in learning to use BASIC! I look forward to watching more videos from you for "TheC64" and have a good day! :)
Emulator on PC and / or real C64 should cover your needs better for less money.
@@NuntiusLegis Since leaving this comment my dad and I uncovered our Commodore 64, 1541 Disk Drive and 1702 Monitor. We also found all our accessories and software. It’s currently out of order, but I’m going to be sending it out for inspection/repair tomorrow afternoon. I look forward to getting it up and running again.
@@Zion767318 Good luck!
@@NuntiusLegis They specialize in servicing vintage computers like the Commodore 64. I’ve dealt with them before, very professional.
@@Zion767318 Great. I got my C64C and !541 II out a few months ago, connected it to a 4:3 TFT TV from Ebay via s-video and enjoy better picture quality than ever in the 80s when I only had a worn out CRT TV. But a proper CRT monitor like your 1702 should be even better.
I actually feel better about the machine knowing you had a hand in it!
Oh wow you did the programming on these, that's really impressive and cool!
Congratulations! great video! This C64 appears to be very cool!
That hack to enable the additional REU memory is great!!!! Thanks man.
This device seems pretty awesome! Thank you for doing such an in-depth review...and for the hearty laugh at the end. Hahaha!
Great Video! Love the 512k hack. I managed to make it work on thec64 mini too. BUT for the super snapshot cart to work with the 512 i had to make a save state snapshot in vice 2.4 like you did but including the snapshot crt with it. love your videos and i like more thec64 hack and assembly tuto. Thanks for sharing your knowledge
The speed issue is clearly that the games loaded on this machine were the EU/International versions which were designed to run on PAL. The fix in the video is totally valid but the simplest way to get around it is to just select PAL at the system setup. Since this version of the system was built for these markets I would imagine that the majority of the games that are pre-loaded would also be designed for PAL mode. The NTSC mode is most likely there as a compatibility feature so that those with a collection of NTSC based roms can use them without too much issue.
Selecting the pal version in the setup doesn't change the speed of Impossible Mission on my one.
Great review. Thanks. One question: is there a way to attach a genuine Commodore floppy disk drive? As I understand it, C64 drives are serial devices, so it would seem to me that a USB serial port and a custom cable might make it possible (possibly requiring a C64 firmware update). Maybe this doesn't really matter, because people with C64 floppies probably also have a computer to attach the drive to, but I'm thinking that someone without an computer might want to buy old software on floppy disk on eBay or from a flea market and would then need some way to load it into the C64, or at least transfer the content to an image file. Ditto for cassettes. Could you attach an audio cassette player via a USB audio interface and use it to load C64/VIC20 software? Again, it seems that this should be possible, although it might require firmware support for the USB audio interface. What do you think? Does this make sense or am I making too many assumptions about Commodore's hardware?
How does the new C64 maxi and \ or The C64 mini handle playing text adventures? The mini of course with a USB keyboard? I haven't been able to find anyone on Google, on KZhead or anywhere mention this for neither device. Thank you in advance for any information on this. Tim
can't wait to see this one in sales in Canada...I defenitively will buy it!
Thanks for another fantasic video!!! I just ordered my own "The C64". Hope to get it before the weekend, Greetings from Sweden ;)
Thank you Retro Games for truly having done a remake of the C64. I love you.
Excellent, excellent review. I felt ambivalent towards this thing when I first heard about it, and after I received no replies to emails I sent to the devs, but you have answered all the questions I asked them, and more. How do you find the SID sound vs an original? Now all we need is a 'The Amiga500' to come out ;)
nothing is as good as the original SID (hence the crazy prices in synthland) - however i still enjoy my mini
Amazing. Your skills are impressive!
Great overview/review! I especially wanted to know about mounting cartridge images. Been wondering about the speed and 50/60 Hz/PAL/NTSC issues. I watched RetroManCave's stream about the TheC64, and *everything* seemed too fast whether he booted into PAL or NTSC mode. Games like IO and R-Type (D64) were *unplayably* fast, the Monty on the Run music was on overdrive, and so on. (Video output was always shown as 60 Hz and we didn't notice any way to change it.) But! When I run VICE on my PC, which also outputs 60 Hz video, everything feels much like it does on my real hardware PAL C64s. So the hertzitude of the video signal to the monitor doesn't seem to be an inherent problem. 'course my PC isn't a tiny system on a chip. I dunno how it all hangs together. Just... pretty sure I wouldn't make it far into sped-up Cybernoid or IO (can't make it far into them at regular speed, either)... I can't believe NTSC gamers played like that... surely those European games weren't made for that breakneck pace!
I think TheC64 is really striving for a tight, no "tearing" sync between the HDMI display and the emulation, so the ideal is to run the HDMI at the same Hz as the VIC emulation. Presumably if you run VICE full-screen with a 60 Hz display and 50 Hz (PAL) emulation on your PC, you will see some visual artifacts from it. But maybe not! :) It'd probably be most noticeable when running games with full-screen fast scrolling. And yeah, we really did play Cybernoid at 60 Hz. It was such a relief to finally play it at 50 Hz many years later :)
@@8_Bit I can imagine. :) I don't "feel" that 50 fps VICE on a 60 Hz monitor causes any issues. PC games also run with all sorts of 'mismatched' and situationally shifting fps as a matter of course... But -- I do have to use Nvidia's "ForceCompositionPipeline" option or a compositing window manager to prevent screen tearing (Linux here; don't know about Windows or Mac). So maybe that's a step the TheC64 would have to perform but can't or decided not to. (Speculation!)
Keyboard with C64 stickers and all needs are covered.
I have a feeling there is going to be a huge demand for the Commodore key and logo to make this look more authentic.
Hi, Have you tried with a real 1541 drive? I have a usb adapter for my drive cable but apparently it is not recognized by the C64, when I type the command: load "$", 8 it seems to read a virtual drive and not the physical one. An idea?
Nice review. I have to say, this looks like a nice machine. I may look into one myself. I love the look and feel of a classic C64 with modern conveniences. This would be nice for a great number of other machines as well. A classic Amiga 500 perhaps or even Atari 2600 etc... with the same look and feel.
Bookmarking this as it seems to be the go to for how to use this newfangled whatchamacallit, great video!
Will it do any networking/bbs’ing/terminal-stuff ala rrnet? Could be cool having emulated network stuff via perhaps a usb WiFi dongle.
Brilliant review. May I ask what the Commodore Security badge is about?
hi, thank you for your review, and generally for your videos, really helpful and clear. When i try to load TMP i get a file not found error (after i press the rocket button). Can you perhaps know what's happening? Thank you again. Nicola
Hi, you can download the Minimal TMP I put in the description: 8BitShowAndTell.com/prg/tmp.d64 The official TMP release won't auto-load because the first file is a decorative file divider name like "----------------" not an actual loadable file. You can LOAD"$",8 and LIST to see all the different file names on any disk - hit RUN/STOP to stop the directory scrolling if it's too long.
This is a really a good review. Thanks a lot.
Great Review from an Actual C64 Programmer. Love It ! Best Yet !
Good, thorough review.
What hardware is under the hood on this thing? I have an electronics background and would love to see a breakdown of it. Many others here would probably love it as well. How does the new chip stack against the 6502/ 6510 of the older designs? Do you think we will see an Amiga or ST soon?
It is based on an ARM CPU and Linux operating system running the VICE emulator.
Thank you. My main question how to save files to USB-Sticks you answered in this video - and many other thing. I hole that many people start programming for C64 again. I love this machine! May be next year we get with the new Atari a ebirth of competition against C64- and Atari-Systems again ;-)
Competition against real C64s, even against VICE on PCs will be harder.
Great review 🙏🏻👍🏻😊
Awesome video! Thanks Robin :) Quick question though if anyone knows - does this emulate disk drives properly? I love the demoscene and most of them don't work unless you have a cycle exact (or real) 1541 drive. Be awesome if demos work on this!
This runs an old version of Vice so if the demo doesn't run on Vice it won't run on this device.
@@macdonalds1972 awesome thanks mate!
Hey I was wondering how you enabled auto fire.
Excellent video.
How do you get TMP + REU + Super Snapshot working together? Which do you load first the REU disk or do the SS reset??
First do the REU hack, then launch a Super Snapshot cartridge image. Then you can load Turbo Macro Pro+REU.
Thank you - great video btw - but I must be doing something wrong - just does not work - tmp unloads it's self. Do you know if TMP+REU+SS saves as a snapshot?
if you choose pal mode does the imppoible mission built in speak correctly ????
wow. way to show your gaming bona fides! i'm very impressed!
Great video, Robin. I can't find the price on the Retro Games web site. Any idea? Do you know when it will be released in the United States and for how much? This looks like a nice machine.
I don't think there's an official release date or price for the USA, but I'd expect it'll be released in the spring (it took 3-4 months for the C64 Mini to arrive in North America after the European release) and this article says it'll be $120 US: gizmodo.com/a-commodore-64-clone-with-a-working-retro-keyboard-will-1835836875
I have both a MAXI and a real C64. Both are good for their own purposes. Maxi will probably less likely to die in the foreseeable future...i have spent a good amount of money to resurrect my C64 including new ARMSID, CIAs, a bunch of other chips, kung fu cart, SD2IEC+fastload carts, S-video cables and PSU....But i can use real Paddles which i have built on the real C64, so plus point to the real thing there. Still trying to make a USB Paddle...but very freaking complicated unlike the C64 paddle...just analog signal input, no micro controllers. Anyway, this is probably the best review of the C64 MAXI yet...shows you all the stuff you can do with it in simple step by step, especially good for people like me who don't own a C64 back in the heydays.
im an old classic c64 (c128, plus4) user, and i like the new menu features in this machine, i did a lot of experiments with the user port and that is one thing i'll miss with this one, its been 30+ years ago poking around c64 mem (user port output pins) all in basic and learning hex to binary,decimal for projects,(some ppl will know about phase lock loops) one other key point, is there a c64 Demo disk file for this?, i miss some of the key files (ex: relative file demo and others), you mentioned Ras-Pi c64 is there a sketch for arduino? cheers, enjoyed the review
My brother and I have a tradition of playing Christmas Lemmings every Christmas. While this is hectic enough, it is far less frenetic than Sarah's Santron game. So congratulations to Sarah for creating the game and to you for making it so far without getting blown to smithereens :-)
Good to see you have great gamer skills as well as tech skills!
Does anyone know where I can get a replacement joystick? I've repaired mine 3 or 4 times already but now it's pretty much toast.
Forgot to ask, is there mouse support for using programs like GEOS?
USB mouse should be possible in a firmware update? Add C128 mode too.
@@SmoothTouchDown Wouldn't a C128 mode require an extended keyboard?
What were Retrogames Limited like to work with?
Easily the best review of the C64 maxi. Most reviews just show this machine playing C64 games or running two-liners written in the useless CBM Basic 2. I was curious how this replica works with TMP and not only you gave an answer, but also provided a "hack" to make it work with TMP+REU. My C64 died several years ago, and I am considering buying the C64 maxi, since it is way cheaper than the alternative options. The information you provided was really helpful. Thank you, and keep up the good work! A few questions, if you have time... Can this machine emulate the NEOS mouse (or any of the old C64 mouses) by plugging in an optical mouse in one of its USB ports? Can it emulate two disk drives? Also, I noticed that VICE often slows down while running TMP. Even cursor movement is noticeably slower after some time working on TMP; sometimes VICE also pops up a window saying memory is "dumped" (and that without messing up with reserved memory). Did you notice anything similar on "the C64"? A soft reset solves the issue in VICE, but this replica does not have a soft reset, so I wonder how it performs when working more "seriously", with larger assembly code.
Great video. Everything works great but the REU hack did they patch it?
I can't get the REU hack working either.
Just wanted to point out to people: if you're not too sure how to make a D64 image in VICE, that there is a program called DirMaster that makes it very easy.
c1541 utility comes with VICE. # create a new d64 disk image c1541 -format "my disk,01" d64 "mydisk.d64" # add a file to it c1541 -attach "mydisk.d64" -write "myfavgame.prg" "myfavgame" # list the contents c1541 -attach "mydisk.d64" -list
It's a good system overall, but there are a couple of things that I personally would have liked to have been implemented (perhaps in a future firmware update...) 1. mouse support (would come in handy if you want to fool around with programs like GEOS) 2. Support for memory expansion modules in VIC-20 mode (perhaps with a flag(s))
Yes, mouse support would be great. I was under the impression that the VIC-20 mode already does support different memory configurations, but I haven't played with it myself yet. I know there's a section about it, anyway.
8 Bit Guy has a demo showing how to use VIC-20 expansion modules by way of flags.
I'm waiting for mine. But it seems that it could be done using the same method as REU hack - preconfiguring snapshot of GEOS and VICE settings to use 1351 mouse