UK SMART HOME PANEL - ANY GOOD?
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Please get a tripod so your video isn’t jumping around! It would be really interesting then..
Yes. This is the future of UK electrics. Ask any homeowner with a Google Home or Alexa. I can tell you everything you want to know about this installation because I was involved with it. The background to the project was that the developer wanted the apartments to have a touch screen video door entry system and we suggested that some simple home automation features could be added to this touch screen to provide a little more wow factor. It’s a shame that you didn’t review the touch screen because that’s the real heart of the user experience rather than the control module which is hidden inside the enclosure, which was just for setup. Many of the fields on the hidden control module weren't setup because no-one would ever see it. KNX is a worldwide standard for home automation, which is supported by hundreds of manufacturers across the globe, and its major advantage over many competing proprietary systems is that you can purchase modules from multiple manufacturers and be sure that they’ll all work together. This installation made use of a power supply from GIRA (with a hard G), a German company that was a founding member of KNX, and relay modules, wall switches and a dual-function touch screen from Vimar (pronounced Veemar if you want to sound authentically Italian). In fact this system isn't pure KNX, it's a cut-down and cheaper version, built on the same underlying protocol. Several manufacturers offer similar "KNX-lite" solutions that are suitable for standard houses and apartments, and which can act as a gateway into KNX proper if the home owner wants to extend the scope of the system. If you want to know anything about KNX, and KNX in the UK, contact me via www.knxperts.co.uk
Is the Baulogic thing related to Baubiologie (Building Biology) principles? If that's true, the idea of using those Vimar modules is to act as a kill switch for reducing alternate electrical fields inside the house specially where the bedroom is.
KNX is a network standard, basically an OSI-based network communications protocol which is extensively designed and developed for building/home automation. KNX is an abbreviation for the word Konnex. KNX is based on three technologies: EIB (European Installation Bus), EHS (European Home Systems Protocol) and BatiBUS.
For me as an Austrian eletrician this is a normal consumer unit. Here in Europe it doesn't matter which RCD or MCBs you fit into any kind of consumer unit. Hager boards are very common here, but most electricians use Eaton, Schrack or ABB MCBs and this okay by the standards. The only problem is the lack of not used space (25% free space on din rails is required)
Quick information: VIMAR is actually an Italian company. It's one of the main companies in Italy that manufactures light switches, sockets, and all sorts of electrical stuff ranging from electrical boxes to home automation systems (as shown in the video). It is a very old company founded in 1945 in Marostica and its very famous because it makes good quality products at a competitive price compared to other companies. They also filed two patents: one for the Sicury anti tamper socket shutters in 1968 and the other was for the BPresa, a universal socket that accepts the two types of Italian plug. Edit: fixed typo Edit 2: fixed typo (1968 instead of 1986)
@Artisan Electrics - a "GIRA" part that was 100% intended for the _German_ market not just sporting German language , but also the "VDE" seal ( VDE = Verband Deurscher Elektriker) of Germany Edit: Baulogic sounds German as well ... The grey things are the breins , the white thing right to it is just the isolated 30V-DC (switching) power supply .... Edit2: most German homes don't use this stuf , they use normal light switches , while in old non-refitted DDR-commi-blocks they use Taster + AC low voltage triggered relay for light switch.
You missed a small Detail, the E in VDE actually stands for Elektrotechniker not for Elektriker.
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Did you ever hear from KNX or Domotic? The bigges chanel board i ever installed Was from Hager, a 24 different 16a channel board
I love the touchscreen interface display behind the panel, but I would create a cutout in the panel to allow the end user to adjust it themselves.
At Nottingham
Imagine being so far behind the rest of Europe in terms of electrical standards, that a RECESSED panel is something so special you have to make a video about it. Uh baby, a Hager VU24NC is considered rocket science now. Lol.
Haha so true
So far all I see is gimmicks - good for business though when you have to rip that recess panel out to add whatever the future brings or find faults.
To be honest i don't understand why he made a big point of that having recessed panels is not unusual in the UK. Also there is nothing in this system that is anyway better or more advanced than in the UK all the extra stuff is pointless you can have smart home gimmicks without it.
Far behind Europe, I think not, it's just we choose a different path. Like we didn't choose Russian energy!?!
Hello all the way from South Africa. Like watching your videos despite the few differences between our electrical systems. The only problem I got with those flush mounted ones is that very few of the people that put them in put enough pipes up to the roof. The problem then becomes getting into the board if you have to add a circuit. The other problem is also that you need a very thick wall as that board takes up about 100mm in depth which here in South Africa is exactly the with of a standard brick. So you need to install them on a double brick wall which is usually only the outside wall and then it becomes a big hassle getting the cables into the pipes as it is right where the roof is at its lowest.
There are no brains in a Knx installation. The you pointed at is just a power supply for the bus, as it is 320mA it can power 32 different units due to how knx standard works. One unit is allowed to draw a max of 10mA . Once you have knx system up and running it is seriously stable. Newer needs a restart (compared to a lot of smart system that needs a reboot once a week) . A year ago I installed it in my house from 1959, was some work get the cables done but now I can control everything except the bathroom. Even the garage is connected to it, also the heating. Also I can use voice control with Alexa. At work we have done some large commercial buildings and now we have a project with 1100 knx units in the works
I am a KNX installer in Australia and it is a great standard and very stable..
I'm not even a spark and enjoy these videos. Brilliant Jordan thanks :)
The layout and how neat it looks recessed is really quite nice. It would be nice for more to be that neat. I think it would have to be designed new though. Retrofitting that sort of thing would involve quite a lot of work. The KNX control system is not new, it's been around a while and may be a bit overkill . That said, it does provide convenient user controls with minimal mains voltage wiring as all the switches on the walls are control line and not mains voltage levels. All mains stuff is centrally contained at the CU.
Yes, flush mains, that is nice. I personally feel there could be problems in the future regarding maintainability. When things fail. Spares etc. When things go wrong, it's up to us guys to become magicians and fix it! Hmmm? That's a really interesting video. I enjoyed it. Thanks for your time!
£300 to buy one of the control boxes when a £3 relay packs up inside and a guy from Bristol on £400 for half a day with a laptop to program it. That was the experience that one of my church customers had with their fancy lighting system.
I did Security for the local school board here in Canada. At small rural school that had been recently renovated they had a similar set up for lighting located near the exit next to the alarm panel. Lights could still be controlled by individual switches in each room etc. When the first or last person (usually caretaker) enters or leaves they can turn all the lights on or off at the start or end of the day. We could also turn the lights on and off responding to any alarms. I quite enjoyed the setup. I wish all of the schools had had it.
Finally! I would be so happy to give you a KNX crash course... it would change the way you do rewirings forever. All you need is a demoboard with some cheap old components from ebay.
When are you doing this
I'll like to be part of it
KNX is a world wide standard, it gets programed from a laptop and ETS software. Covers anything from apartments like this to Heathrow terminal 5. It can be an industrial building management system or used to provide smart home functionality reacting of switches, sensors and more. All items are on the green bus cable including the switches, so one cable to the switch unit but you can have it controlling many differing lights with only the one wire to that location.
Oh I would like you to review my installation. 64 breakers, over 30 KNX switching channels, DALI lighting, KNX blind actuators, 13 PIR motion sensors and all controlled by central tablets, logics, smartphones, but no light switches and a lot more that would be too much for this list. Welcome to a smarthome without the need for cloud services.
Interesting though seems a bit inflexible to me but then my profession is as a network engineer and programmer with a pretty decent knowledge of electronics and a house I already had wired with enough in-wall ethernet and wifi in every room that could support a few hundred clients per room if needed. So was just easier for me to stick with what I know when you are really not fussed about dismantling and reflashing stuff or resorting to assembling boards from scratch and straight-up custom modifying the open-source software to add features at will I feel more comfortable with this than resorting to calling an electrician to change a simple thing lol. But yeah the cloud can get stuffed I'll run my own stuff on the servers in the rack downstairs in the equipment room thanks very much heh.
@@seraphina985 There's nothing to dismantle and reflash. Everything is configurable in a central location. If I want to switch an outlet that isn't hooked up to an actuator, then I need to add one wire to the switchboard. Need 3 minutes for doing that. Logics are just written as a script or similar. It's not inflexible at all, but the opposite. Maybe I understand you wrong there.
@@drstefankrank Ok still not familiar enough with the system to feel confident with it especially since the range of products off the shelf products would have to be significantly wider to have a hope of replacing all the custom builds. I like that with my current system when the market says "Nope you don't need that at all" I can say "Bugger off yes I do and I'll make my own screw it".
@@seraphina985 KNX is an open standard. Over 200 different manufacturers, all compatible to each other and connected with a single software. On top of that, you'll add your own software that speaks KNX over ethernet where you can send and receive data from the devices. Very unlikely that you end up with a system not supported anymore.
@@drstefankrank Ok still I as I say I am familiar with the hardware and the methods to flash code I have personally vetted to the devices I use, not so much with the chips supporting this protocol so could only send data to them that was suitable for public disclosure information available to black boxes is public by definition as there is no way to confirm how it is being used or disclosed.
Coming from a commercial background, some arts centres and theatre auditorium lighting systems (not stage) use similar systems, obviously on a commercial scale, it is interesting to see how it equates to a domestic installation. I also see a few Churches which have had their lighting changed and rewired also, again have commercial versions installed and is interesting to see how the Church and / or installer have setup the presets to create different ‘moods’ for different purposes - sometimes done well, sometimes not so found some of your comments interesting.
The knx system is pretty fancy. Those two green cables are KNX.they probably go to the switches. A lot of hotels are using it for powersaving etc. I think it must maker simpler and possibly safer wiring routes, with fewer mains cables running around, and knowing that everything goes directly to consumer unit. I'd like to see more recessed consumer units, it's a much nicer look. I'm not too keen on the use of wylex within the hager, but these things happen.
I remember a similar Distribution panel in an apartment in La Rochelle, it was more like a large computer with different displays of the hourly rates which often change frequently throughout the day in France.
Interesting video but like others have commented, I really see little point in the lighting control for this small flat. I do love the recessed board. Having Italian parents I’m very used to this from our house in Italy. I did want to share some of my experiences over the years though with lighting control. I’ve renovated several houses over the years and played around with different home automatic platforms and lighting control systems. For a large renovation of a house in North London I installed Clipsal CBUS (now Schneider). This controlled all lighting using dimming and relay modules as well as heating, towel rails, bathroom fans etc. Occupancy sensors were also installed. The system was very capable and programmable right down to what colour each switch button would light to indicate on/off. It looked very impressive when installed 10 years ago but given the cost and amount of additional cabling with everything needing to be wired back to a central point, i’d not bother again. My last house had a few Lutron grafik eye dimmers but this wasn’t really smart lighting and didn’t easily integrate with other home automation systems but the switch wall plates looked impressive. I spent a great deal of time looking at Loxone for my last project but at the time Loxone didn’t have their ‘tree’ wiring solution and all switches had to be wiring back to a central point which would have been messy in my opinion. I had a long chat with them explaining the CBUS system and how cabling switches and other sensors by daisy chaining them using a single cable made things really simple but they were very disparaging if this only to then release their own solution. I know they interface with KNX but that can be expensive. Having Loxone control heating, lighting and intruder therefore using single pir sensors serving multiple purposes sounds nice but very much all eggs in one basket, so a system failure would result in a dark and cold house with no working intruder alarm!! I’ve now settled to standard wiring for lighting and using Philips Hue and Senic wireless battery free switches in some rooms that need lighting control. These switches are installed where traditional switches would have been and I’ve just used wago blocks to make light fittings always live. The advantage is that they can be easily removed and the old switch reinstated if needed. The programming is incredibly simple and easily integrated with other home automation systems.
Take a look at Loxone, I've been installing their stuff in the UK since 2013, mainly for intelligent heating control but I have done full home automation. I'm surprised you've not seen any before! The recessed db is nice and about time we did better than just sticking a box on the wall.
William Meadowcroft I’ve also been installing Loxone since about 2013, Loxone makes this set up look very basic. Jordan showing his lack of experience in the modern world made me chuckle, it’s like he’s never seen any kind of control system in domestic properties
Agreed
Hi Will, I’m interested in the Loxone system. How did you get into doing smart installs in the U.K.? I’m an electrician in the U.K. and pretty handy with home networking, AV etc. Did you need to do a course? I always planned to do a Lutron course but then wondered if I’d gain enough work in that field..
@@skamuk1 you need to do a course if you want to install Loxone, I did a 1 day intro then 2 days followed by a day update every year. I saw some ads recently for the intro course, take a look at their website and look for Installer / Training.
Same here in Switzerland!
I used some heat recovery units similar to those silavent units in the UK 4 or so years ago in a block of 20 flats
I had recessed board fitted in a renovation I did in UK about 10 years ago. The back box is metal and the fascia moulded plastic. I think the result is much neater but appreciate now the same job would require metal front panel too. I would have loved to have put actuators in to control lighting etc but that option wasn't available then (not at reasonable cost anyway) so went with more traditional approach - although did have lamp sockets fitted switched with main lighting which are pretty neat. One thing I did notice there was the smoke detector being fed from RCD shared with other circuits - when I was doing renovation the regs prohibited that - smoke detection etc had to either be on it's own RCD/RCBO or not on RCD but recessed conductors had to be protected with earthed metal conduit - which was the option we went with as it was short run.
There's no "PCB". Both of the actuators are independant of all the other devices on the bus. The Gira device is the system power supply.
Yeah, the on the right is just a DC power supply to power the two other devices.
Yes the Gira is a standard EIB/knix bus power supply. Other 2 modules are eib/knix bus Relay. ( Output modules )nothing fancy... In Belgium more than 10 years ago ..you find them..in big houses. We call it Domotica..
@@kittsdiy yes those were Mount units relay units whatever you want to call them automation units whatever those almost remind me of a some sort of plc programmable logic controller essentially a major version with a few extra features and less of some others a programmable controller that might further sample run some sort of machine or something it looks very similar to a small PLC for sure but just just a comparison essentially a standalone programa module would be equivalent to a relay module and a controller but combined into one unit it would be like having a control panel that I had brains of its own then connected to remote relay module except this is kind of all the above and just taking inputs from something else although in at least one it automation system I've seen that was a custom job here in the United States this person was big into industrial control at least in their job and they weren't up using plc's the other Industrial Automation hardware and more of that sort of thing to automate their entire house there was more Ethernet there than I'd seen it anywhere pretty much even to the point they even had any grated raspberry pause running some things and a cellular link for data as long as an internet link both Ameri fact it could even send and receive cellular notifications and you could actually dial in from an Android phone through a custom app as well and basically real-time adjustments and traces of programming could be done either through a PC or even Android tablet or phone but easier to use a tablet because of all the options easier to look at inputs and outputs that way as well from what I was told. Even the alarm clock was based on a Raspberry Pi which could also start the coffee maker wake you up to music do the home audio system open the blinds and also simulate sunrise and Dawn stood room lighting waking you up gently if that was enough the alarm goes off later if it's not canceled first one more Touch of things there was an old school toaster that's plugged into an outlet in the kitchen that was controlled by a relay module that would start a toast that the right time as well
You are missing some of the basic benefits of French electrical systems. RCD switching both Live and neutral is a massive benefit. Supply cable has the earth cable insulated so no need for stupid green sleaves. In addition, the exterior of the cable is colour coded to identify either power of lighting grade cable. Also, these cables are marked every metre for easy measurement. The wall-mounted pattress boxes for switches and power sockets are round not square. This means the hole in the wall can be drilled with a core drill. Night and day - how far the UK has fallen behind.
Sleeving the earth conductor is sad 😭 forget colour codings here, i have to run DC systems with brown and blue 😭 TLC sells the plasterboard round yellow ones now but don’t tell anyone! Very similar to the legrand ones in Europe and the screws spacing is the same for the British switches as the European ones so i can finally use my hole saw and put a 45mm deep box to do my lighting connections with wagos on the back of the switch box! Yeeehaaaa!
Ring circuit is not very European, another UK oddity that needs to be done away with. Other countries are leading the way and UK are still dragging about in the dark ages. MK don't even manufacture type A RCBOs and their type A RCDs are hard to get hold of as type AC RCDs and RCBOs are so commonly used yet other countries have banned them for decades......another example of UK dragging behind.
@@18in80 mk does you can get a type A rcbo from toolstation.
David Toner the ring circuits are forbidden mainly because of the 32A protection for the 2x2.5mm wires, if for some reason the ring opens you’ll have a 2.5mm “protected” at 32A 🔥 🔥 . Also because of 3 phases being present almost everywhere apart from the tiny house.. imagine someone wrongly connecting a ring to 2 different phases.. lots of fireworks as soon as you turn it on.. radials are better in a way that you’ll provide more selectivity for the install and much easier to troubleshoot too..
@@alexdougherty4905 Really. Thanks for that,I was looking and couldn't locate one. 👍
The French ones have double pole MCBs, and I was fitting recessed units into cabinets in council properties back in the 70s, you coudl buy a skeleton board and fascia, also had the meter and cut out in the same metal cabinet, nice and neat I like the look of that unit though
We've had this design here in the US for decades.... its all up to what the electrician wants to use and install.... plus you seem to have a "Smart Home" scheme going on there.... nice setup....
Reminds me of the abb free@home lighting system, its knx though but the single gang switch has 4 push buttons you can programme. I think in a small appartment like this its overkill but maybe its a premium place but most modern high end properties will have knx system and fancy lighting controls.
I have the same Hager board here in Ireland (full rewire done in 2019). The UK boards look so annoying the way the cover flaps down constantly over the mcbs/rcds. They also look a lot neater in the wall! I don't know about all the bespoke switchgear though... nice in theory but how reliable/serviceable is it?
The consumer unit I have seen in many recent apartments. I lived in one three years ago. The switchgear is pretty common in hotels. The ventilation I’ve live on two apartments with a system with it (one apartment had no owning windows so had to have it as far as I’m aware).
Looks great, but total overkill for such a tiny flat/apartment that looks like single room accomodation. Also they could've cleaned up all the dust & debris out from the enclosure before they put the cover back on!
I agree!
Since it's an AirBnB apartment then I can see a point of having that solution which can allow for a remote control of turning off all unnecessary loads like lights and reduce heating. But for normal ordinary dwellings it might be a bit of overkill and add features that could cause problems in the long run when they age and are no longer supported. The only luxury I like to see in a central like that is RCBOs for the individual circuits since it would make it a lot easier when you get a grounding fault - not everything goes dark so it's easier to narrow it down. As for different manufacturers in a HAGER enclosure - all that are on the so called DIN rail with a standardized size, so no problem mixing them aside from that it could look a bit funny to have a mix of brands.
@@ehsnils My KNX installation has devices or actuators from ABB, Berker, Eibmarkt, Gira, MDT, Siemens, Theben and Zennio. That is the beauty of it; they are all compatible.
I commented on a previous video you posted. As a U.S electrician it blowes my mind that everything you show in the UK is all surface mounted. I would assume the UK would catch up with the rest of the world and recess everything
You have to remember that in the UK more often than not internal walls are stud type and recessing the CU is just not an option. Also UK homes are smaller than US homes too so building thicker stud walls that lend themselves to recess designs dont really exist. We tend to hide the CUs away as much as we can in a cupboard space or if possible or put them somewhere unobtrusive. Its just the way we have always done it. But in some ways I think we are world leading and others could learn from us. Our plugs and socket design for example is world leading in my opinion.
I’ve stayed in a few hotels in the UK that have a similar arrangement for lighting zone controls. I didn’t realise they had actuators to control the circuits.
Changed many Wylex Skeleton units in local authority flats in Southwark back in the 80's - Metal enclosure with skeleton unit up to, meter and tails below.
Fitted a MVHR to my home, was a pain, but really worth it, no damp, fresh air all year round. The filtering is very basic, but the main point is you frequently change the air around inside the house, the exhausted air is not mixed with the incoming air so good for expelling bugs and nasties.
I've had to add a new circuit to recessed Clipsal load centres in Australia. It can be a pain in the backside. Especially where the previous electrician has decided to route wires in front of the DIN rail, and over the (inside) top of the board, where the cable entries are.
That’s pretty easy to work with as soon as you’re shown how it works, domotics make installs simpler and cleaner for bigger houses as no need for figuring out which T&E is doing the connections between the 2 way switches nor making a bunch of messy connector block connections somewhere in the ceiling void. All the light circuits run directly off the board to fittings (some power circuits can too but those relays in them don’t really handle big loads like the 32A rings). I’ve done a couple decent sized villas abroad with domotics for all the lighting where the switches where wired in UTP cable(1 pair to each button) as it’s just an extra low voltage impulse to trigger a specific relay, was a bit more mechanical back in the day though, these new ones are more bus line and software so some programming will be needed.. also a thing that you guys don’t really care much here is the coax and utp cables network for the house and its box next to the fuseboard (by the house entrance door). Back home is a requirement for the electrician to have Ethernet and tv/fm points everywhere in the house with a fibre optics port in the living room, so the router can go inside this box and comes populated with patch panel and coax splitters for tv and satellite. We call it ITED networks and this box is called the ATI. My big question here is.. how OK do you consider it and does it fulfil all the requirements for your EICR test? Did it have a fan isolator in the toilet? In Europe if a fuse box is DIN rail then its suitable for any DIN rail equipment.. brand and “manufacturers instructions” don’t really matter in terms of what is going inside as I’ll buy an empty Hager board and install Efapel or legrand breakers inside.. it’s a standardised horizontal din rail anchorage system so 🤷♂️. Here the manufacturers impinge you with their gear as the only suitable one to go in there when this isn’t true.. obviously I can’t put a legrand breaker next to a Hager one if the bus bar terminal alignment isn’t correct as it’ll bend the bar but if they align then they can go together, will look a bit meh having a different branded one but as long as it’s electrically safe it’s fine. That connector on the left is called a Viking connector for din rails 😆. Cool to see you’re an open minded guy and actually appreciate these different to traditional installations.
Yes worked with a few KNX and our own bespoke 24 v dc controls
Now that's neat, it is like your French holiday apartment D/board NICE.
Yeah!
Hello from New Zealand. Enjoying your videos
Thanks!
Lots of people saying this is overcomplicated, but it does make it easier for the end user. These systems are quite common in hotel rooms. A hotel I stayed in recently did NOT have one of these systems, and it had 12 standard light switches! What a pain, had to go round flipping all the switches before going to bed! With the KNX and similar systems, you can have perhaps 3 "scenes" with a master off button. Much simpler.
I first worked with KNX and similar around 12 years ago... central control is okay, but it's also a central point of failure when things go wrong! I always ask clients to think about what such systems would achieve for them that cannot be done in other ways... it's often just the "cool factor" that folk are looking for, which soon looses its shine once the novelty has worn off or something goes wrong!
Hi great work, just a quick one, the test leads you use for R1+R2 at each socket on the sercit what is the current rating of the fuse in the plug top? This is the the leads on your kewtech MFT
Played with this years ago. Knx is the connection between device. It’s basically a plc which you can program 1 input - 3 output. Light switch - 3 lights......
At last a UK Consumer Unit that is in a sensible accessible position and sunk into the wall. Welcome to the 21st centuary. It never ceases to amaze me how your Consumers Units are always hidden away in cupboards with lots of junk infront of them, don't see how that is safe!
Looks like a good system. I'm big on my IoT stuff. Surprised the wires in the CU weren't an OCD beautiful thing though
The layout cabinet is nice. Needs all *DP* RCBOs, and a twin L&N busbar.
it's for smart home technology. We have a similar system fitted at home. It allows the lights to be controlled by various triggers, even remotely to enact someone living at home when they are away, hence the timeclock you can see. Normally by the exit door they could be an "all off" switch.
What's new about a distribution board arranged in a cabinet like that in the UK? We had a similar arrangement in our GLC flat on Wimbledon Parkside SW19, as did my Uncle in his flat on Windlesham Drive SW19, and they had round-pinned 15 amp sockets when they were built in the 1950's.
Had this in an apartment in manchester is 2006, just without the smart screen, its not new at all, and will only ever be found in apartments due to size/fire etc etc constraints.
Yes we use the vimar lighting control switch circuits on the Sunseekers we build
Congratulations! You have a standard circuit board in europe;) Best regards!
Certainly feels like the future of electrics...thinking about re-wiring my house at the moment and pondering on whether to go down the KNX route or not. Would be interested in seeming more videos on it as they are sparse across KZhead!
Seriously look at Loxone instead. I have been a specialist building controls and automation designer and contractor working with every brand and Loxone is what you want.
Similar to a CANBUS system in cars , where you encode a digital signal in the feed which each light reacts to. Each light or appliance has its own digital address that can be addressed and controlled.
All MVHR units are great especially in a well built well sealed house. I have installed hundreds on big schemes and two on my own flat and then house. Paid for themselves on heating costs in less than two years from my calcs
Hey Jordan, do you have independent inspectors that audit installations randomly as we do in Australia. We have a government organisation called ‘Energy Safe’ who can inspect your work at no cost to the customer to ensure your installation is compliant. Great vid btw
It's smart panels this been around for years we have been installing them in flats only problem the panels are bigger 😆
Maybe the lights/heating in all apartements can be switched off by the hotel management, so the KNX would make sense in the end. The board is a Hager VU24NC. And yes, GIRA is German, but KNX/Instabus is a cross-brand standard.
Or switched on just before a guest arives.
Good system for when your way on holidays. You can program lights to come on and off make it look like someone is home.
No mention is made but I wonder is this KNX IP interfaced to the outside world? Everything controllable by App. If not: crying Shame
This is a hotel room, why let the guest mess around with an app? KNX was introduced in 1991, the IP interfaces were added in the 2000s. The earliest installation I‘ve seen is from 1994 in a single family home. Was amazed how they opened the windows or moved the curtains by a single button. They actually had a home cinema there, one scene on a button closed the curtains, dimmed the lights and rolled down the screen. No IP-interface at that time, but the components are still compatible so no issue to upgrade to IP today. KNX is quite primitive and simple, but very stable on the other hand.
@@Froggability There's no IP interface in that cupboard but that doesn't preclude there being one somewhere else on the bus.
This looks very similar to Tebis which is Hager KNX, we have fitted these in large new build millionaire houses and hotels but haven’t installed it for a decade or so, its a great bit of kit as you just take the bus round to every switch/controller and you can programme them to switch anything wired into the contactor modules, really its like an early smart hub! downside is the programming side a its a tad tricky at first
Have you secretly teamed up with Furze? Converted his DeLorean and gone forward 10 years?? That's a lovely installation fellow Artisans 🙏🙏
The problem is more and more you see elecs charging less for a EICR and the system and tests are definitely getting more complex / time consuming. it should follow suit. Nice vid once again.
That kind of electrical cabinets are just about the only kind we use... just make sure to run some extra tubes to the attic for future use.
Sorry mate ZERO tubes in this land!
I don't think it's overly complicated at all. Just some relay controlled switches, no big deal. The future is wireless control, from circuits to switches to sockets, everything will come with this built-in to facilitate home automation.
i have many times run supply power trough attic to light/roof boxes and installed a wireless-pill there, with a standard design wireless switch that fits into standard switch panel frame. its nice in situations where everything from before is nice and hidden and the customer wants to keep it that way with hees new lightsource
I'm a electric and electronic engineer in Portugal and I can tell you that I love what you do for the clients, but this is what we use. What you show on the other video in France I think is the best and the future as well. A big hug from Portugal 😁
Nem imaginas a má qualidade das instalações por estes lados 🤯 dados de junção pela casa toda com um monte de fios ligados.. MEDO
Here in Portugal we´ll never see a 50Amp MCB for the water heater, it´s more power than we have available for the whole house!
@@eduardocarvalho1547 obvio que nao ha. Nem dava para utilizar ahaha. É tudo por bomba de calor
@@filipe.skunk8 acredito. Muito diferente do nosso. Mas ate gosto de ver os videos dele. Mas ja reparei que é tudo a mostra. Canalizações e tudo. Mas em termos do trabalho que ele faz nao é nada mau para o mau que ja é ahah
David Bruno também gosto de ver os trabalhos dele, nota-se que mete pride no que faz. O unico problema que ele deve ter assim como eu por cá é o acesso a muitos materiais bons e convenientes que ha ai em baixo.. vais tentar comprar um ligador forbox, uma caixa de derivação pra pladur ou parede, tubo isogris ou anelado ja com fio, etc e o pessoal olha pra ti tipo 👽 nas casas as ligações de cada compartimento são na roseta no tecto, desligas a luz no interruptor pra mudar aquilo pra uma luz mais apresentável e apanhas uma lula 🦑 a execução da instalação eléctrica é muito rudimentar ainda, os cabos vão do quadro até ao sítio à safoda style literalmente, em casas que são 90% pau de fósforo 🤷🏻♂️. É so armadilhas e maroscas
Hi Jordan, the CitizenM Hotel's have the same set up of electrics.
oooo i'd love that! 😳😁 hope that becomes standard!!! maybe the enclosure was the only one big enough for all the gear? (nice tho!)
Hi , I got the same recessed enclosure after a renovation , but mine got four DIN rails. There is a 3 -phase Installation. Recessed panels are standard here in germany since many decades. The Hager Stuff is widespread here ,meter boxes, switchgear cabinets etc. GIRA is a german manufacturer of electrical stuff. de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Gira_(Unternehmen)
Heathrow T5 was done in KNX/DALI
About the häger/wylex-mix, isn't the din-rail standard supposed to be universal? I see a lot of this here in Norway and never really though much of it. The module you assumed to be the main controller is actually the system power supply. (spännung=voltage, versaugung=supply)
It is in Europe but in Uk manufacturers impinge you their gear and declare the fuseboard unsafe if you mix brands of breakers! Of course there might be some breakers that the bus bar terminal at the bottom won’t align but that’s why an electrician has eyes to check!
@@filipe.skunk8 Kind of makes sense even though I don't agree with the practice. I guess it's comparable to when smartphone manufacturers tell you to only use the supplied charger, so some knob won't come in wanting their money back after blowing the phone up with pink 50c one from ebay🙃
Анон Ым it’s all about keeping your arse from being prosecuted.. and most electricians aren’t that open minded/clever to see if it’s compatible as that’s how they were taught to work here.. i mix them if i have to.. like when adding a new circuit for a fire alarm onto an old fuseboard.. as long as the compatibility is checked in between and it’s electrically safe there’s nothing to go wrong. 🤷🏻♂️
Done loads of houses that had Clipsal C Bus installed. Every lighting circuit would go back to a consumer unit that had the relays or dimmer units in and every switch was linked together with a pink CAT 5 cable daisy chained. You could have either just push buttons or ones with screens or even full size touch screens to control it all. Everything had to be programmed using a computer and any changes would need the sparky to come out with a computer to change anything. Meant you could set a four button switch next to your master bed to turn be able to dim your bedroom light, close/open your curtains, turn your socket on in the kitchen for your coffee machine or turn every light off in your house by one button at the end of the day. Good stuff but insanely expensive.
Gira is a German Company and Vimar is a Italian Company . What I can advise ist the Company Loxone for the home automation is very simple to use (user friendly)
KNX systems are used all over the uk. Mainly in offices etc for smart control
Cool
Usually simtronic system for offices
Philips have a similar thing for the smart led lighting they install in shops and can be linked through alarm systems so when alarms are set, the shut down the lights either until the alarm is triggered, or it’s unset on opening up
Vimar is actually from Italy but we do use it a lot. Although I prefer Schneider and Legrand. Cheers from Croatia :)
Has the Neutral for the RCD been bypassed at the terminals at the top? (11:03) There are two large conductors connected and there should only be one. I think.
Reminds me of the low voltage and/or wireless lighting control switches here in the US.
I am learning in EU, and my job its called electrician for homeautomation, so i am installating those bus and EIB systhems very often they are bretty cool but very very expensive
Good thing you had that Tripod with you. Really came in handy in this video
Yep!
I have tried to see the Hager enclosure and Wylex CU online. No luck. Any pointers?
Can you guys do a video on the difference between the US vs UK home electric system, from pole to plug possibly, I’d love to see your opinion on how we do it in the states!
اي بلد توجد انت
The US system is third world. That is not a joke or a sneer. It needs to adopt the British system but with DP disconnectors at the main panels, where the British lack badly.
Looks pretty nice!
Interesting installation 👍
Looks like a hotel fit out,just missing the keycard sensor by the door. Wylex were doing domestic recessed boards 30/35 years ago.
Interesting, never seen a small heat recovery unit so small, and fitted into so small apartment. I guess it makes sense, I just never have guessed such things are done (UK or Europe).
3:32 For a dutch company Gira use the german word "Spannungsversorgung" on it. I know it as german company only. I talk it same writing.
"Spannungsversorgung" mean power supply. These cabinets from HAGER are typical in Germany.
Yes lutron smart wiring system to control lights and blinds on a project
KNX installer/programmer here. This is normal to me. We have been doing a lot more apartments/hotels just like this. It used to be just high end houses.
It would be good for the a lot of people in the UK
We had a smart home with developer selected tech. Controls the heat recovery unit heating and water to minimise waste heat. When it works its great but the system (called eBMS) was manufactured to a price and tripped out all the time; the developer replaced it. This knx stuff looks interesting...
I have been thinking about some of the stuff that you have been talking about the our domestic installations in the UK i am a Spark and don't know how our regs are really OTT for example if we followed the same as the rest of Europe regarding our dated 13amp fused plug tops and fitted the same DP MCBs and smaller rated RCD protection as the guy in the program has been demonstrating and we could do away with ie 25 mm tails for the inadequate sized boards that we have to install in the UK but there's a lot more to improve on especially for the domestic market ❓
I put a Zennio KNX system into the shed/office as a learning project...
Cool
The European installers don't mess around with line and neutral, every thing is double pole which means you never have to worry about polarity. They don't use ring final circuits or worry about having fused plug heads. If the cable is correctly selected for a plug in appliance you don't have to worry about over current protection and the MCB will always protect against fault current.
If GIRA is German as the labeling on it, you would speak it with „G“ as in Guitar
It is, one of the old German switch manufacturers and I think the only one that's still family-owned. I'm not a huge fan of their products but I do install them from time to time. Hager offers really nice push-in bus bars, I haven't used anything else for years! I think the push-in terminals go up to 2.5 or maybe 4 mm2 and then there's a few screw terminals for larger conductors.
Correct, Gira is German as the labelling in the video suggests: www.gira.de/
So it would be pronounced Gear-a
Niall Fleming would be a good approximation. The r would be different but the German r does not exist in English as far as I am aware.
@@pascalnitsche8746 yes it's more of a back of mouth ruh than most English r sounds. Kinda like the r in rough, but a little more rolled.
The idea behind KNX is simply having central (remotely controlled) switches (contactors), and point to point cables from switch (4 relays in your case) to loads. The remote controller (push buttons) are usually powered with 24V, and there is no need to have smarts (computer) in the system. I would put a consumer unit ("fuse board") per floor, or half floor (left / right), and dedicated cables to sockets / other loads without loops. More cables to pull, but dedicated load area control / fault isolation. Hierarchy of consumer units can help - first level feeds second levels. Everything recessed.
Is there a remote function to all of this, can see if being useful if it's an airbnb apartment, as soon as the tenant leaves everything turns off.
Yes there are remotes, some over IP so don't even have to be in the same building.
This is actually a vimar by-me bus system. VIMAR is a company from northen Italy. The GIRA component is just the system power supply, because this is a distributed-intelligence system.
Cool thanks
I would say to have control maybe by phone and so no chasing was needed as everything works with Radio signals no need for switch wires just a power supply. Also very efficient home very low bills. Easy to maintain never needs rewiring just upgraded equipment. Ahead of its time
Can you review the Dutch Installation when you go on vacation or something?
Welcome in my home to have a peek! 😁
When the hat rail/DIN rail has the standart size of 35x7.5mm, a circuit breaker unit is 18mm wide and the front cover fits over everything, I don‘t know what could be a problem to use different brands
Seems in uk they like to stick same brand circuit breakers in same brand fuse box .. in Belgium it depends on space and availability.. even 2 of 3 brands circuit breakers on same din rail isn't uncommon.
Only that it would look funny to have a mix of brands.
@@ehsnils it does..and somethimes the bus bar doesn't fit good.. even same brand has some issues.. Schneider/Merlin Gerin/Gardy.. older VS newer models
The only issue is the bus bar, but that has nothing to do with the board but with mixing breakers. Sadly, the bus bar came into use after the DIN rail boxes where standardised, so its position (or actually the terminal's position) is not part of the standard. In my opinion, the UK should change the rule from requiring type testing for the box+breaker combo to requiring it for the bus bar+breaker combo. You can always go old-style and use wires if you want (need) to mix breakers (and other DIN rail devices) that way.
@@HenryLoenwind Yep .. that's what i also do in Belgium when busbar "kamgeleider in dutch" not fits .. use stranded wire with ferrules .. ( 10mm² ) . Also in BE we buy empty fuse boards ..depending on size we need . For the same number of circuits in UK we need double the size of board .. since Belgium used always use double pole breakers .. we don't have a neutral bar .. Also plastic or metal fuse board is no problem in BE ..( Residential is mostly Plastic )
No different from a Mantell recessed unit which have been around for decades. Wylex make a skeleton unit for retro fitting.