Transgender Ideology, The Cass Review, and Stopping Child Harm | Helen Joyce
In this interview, John is joined by author and journalist Helen Joyce to discuss the recent Cass review and its revelations that medical treatment for children with gender confusion has rested on ‘shaky foundations’.
John and Helen talk about the history of transgenderism, where it stems from and where it is going. Helen explores the demographics affected by transgender ideology, namely, the large number of children that fall prey to it, and the struggles their parents face in trying to help them.
Helen explains the insidious impact of this ideology on the institutions, including the fallout from the Tavistock scandal in the United Kingdom.
Helen Joyce was Britain Editor at The Economist, where she worked for over 15 years before she
joined the gender-critical campaign group Sex Matters as a director. She is the author of Trans:
When Ideology Meets Reality.
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00:00 Intro
01:45 The History of Transgenderism
09:02 Transgenderism in the West
13:39 The Tavistock Clinic
24:04 Transgenderism and Children
29:35 The Children of the Tavistock Clinic
34:01 The Cass Review
39:56 Suicidality in Trans People
45:27 The Medical Industry as a Whole
48:26 Do Parents Support This?
53:13 Institutional Capture by Trans Activists
57:55 Autogynephilia
01:02:30 Government Perspective
01:09:20 Advice for Parents
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This intelligent, caring and articulate lady should be required listening in all schools.. and hospitals.. and government departments.. and media outlets..
She’s brave, smart and kind - a true hero for our times.
Unfortunately, you can't fix morons by having them listen to smart people. These organizations havem more than their share.
I intend to play it to my granddaughters.
She would be screamed down and assaulted by the deluded and weird.
Nobody would listen -- those institutions have been captured.
Joyce is the most effective communicator on this topic. Australia is lagging on this issue; so glad Anderson has hosted her.
The United States has entered the chat. ❤
hard not to lag when government and media are making sure we hear nothing truthful.
I hope she never stops speaking!
Australia is worse than lagging, as the UK closes down clinics Australian states pass legislation giving jail sentences for adults who don't affirm.
@@vigarobugsbunni Me too, because if her voice ever fell silent, it would take a lot of our ordinary voices to equal her one extraordinary voice.
I never miss a chance to listen to any discussion with Helen Joyce. I always come away with another arrow in my quiver to defeat this evil ideology.
Me too ❤
Pp⁰ppl😊@@laf4891
Well said and same
Me as well. She is so eloquent and intelligent.
My conclusion exactly.
Helen is the best communicator on the trans subject. A true light in this shadowy area of trans ideology. I am grateful that Helen is out there doing what she does. Thank you.
She's sadly misinformed and incredibly biased
@@michelledavis-classicalg-cp8by Got any examples?
@seantaylor861 dna has nothing to do with gender identity. Gender identity is also neurological not physiological
Helen is going to be known in history as a champion for children and human rights.
We can only hope so;- if insanity wins, she'll go down as a tyrant and a bigot... all because she did the research and tried to protect people from complete lunacy.
She will. She's got the backbone and intelligence to see this through. No way is she going to lose.
The gold standard in this discussion
I hope all heads of education departments will see this and do the necessary reeducation to stop such a tragic social contagion❤
@@sistersusie8569they won’t. Too much money being made.
Yeah, sadly, American government doubled down on the issue. We will need a revolution. The definition of “woman” was never for the wealthy elites to give away.
@@sistersusie8569 they won’t, because it’s not in their algorithmic feeds.
Nesh Nikolic (Australian psychotherapist) interviewed Helen here on YT and made some VERY insightful and original insights into the current situation. John may be informed and sympathetic, but insight and nuance? Not so much.
This interview should be broadcast on the national television and radio to educate people on this very serious issue regarding children
But notice that this and the vaccine scandal are completely missing from corporate media. Now I wonder why that is?
They won't because the trans activists will cause them so much trouble and the mainstream media don't want it. So they abdicate their responsibility completely
As long as they broadcast the other side which is missing here.this is radical one side of the issue only.
@@tracygeddes5867 The other side’s viewpoint has been broadcast ad nauseum for years now with no pushback from gender skeptics like HJ. Are you kidding?
@@slacktoryrecords4193 so that’s makes it ok to present only one side?
Great interview, Helen Joyce is brilliant. It has been heartening to see the number of countries that are banning the use of blockers on children slowly increase. Bravo to the whistleblowers and academics who are using their voices to stand up against this ideology.
Well said
Absolutely!!!
And the ordinary people who stood up against it and suffered and are suffering terribly for it. They are heroes for the next generation of children who will be saved from this cult.. people lost their jobs, people in the entertainment industry were instantly cut off from getting employed and lost their income - for what- for trying to protect children from mutilation and sterility.. It's insane.
I watch almost every conversation with Helen Joyce - because she is so clear, eloquent and logical. This is the very FIRST time I have ever seen her quite so emotional by the end. An utterly, utterly admirable woman.
Yes, same for me. I had tears in my eyes at the end
The Marvellous Marvellous Helen Joyce…. So Privileged to have her in the UK…🙏🏻🌹💐🌟👏
Not helped by openly LGBTQIA++ proselytising teachers who are especially thrilled if a child in their care has a "secret special persona" which parents don't know about, so they can "bond" and feel like saviours. These individuals should be rooted out and sacked but will claim discrimination.
This is just another form of grooming. They do it not out of concern for the individual but to collect trophies to justify their own agenda.
I don't doubt for a moment that there are proselytising teachers, but generally speaking, it's not necessarily about the views of classroom teachers but about the school's policy. Of the teachers I know, none support trans ideology or excluding parents from knowing that their child has socially transitioned at school. Some of the main problems have been linked to the government stepping out of this particular arena and leaving schools to flounder. They have not provided materials for teaching PSHE, thereby allowing outside organisations with vested interests to supply them. They've let schools down by taking so long to provide guidelines on the Equality Act, leaving schools having to rely on these organisations' interpretations of the law. The guidelines have now been introduced but this still means schools can be lobbied/persuaded into ignoring them - they are only guidelines. They should not be guidelines - they should be law.
If you want to fire people for their ideology then you are part of the problem.
Sounds like Noncin’ to me!
Always glad to see Helen Joyce. Her book Trans is brilliant.
"It's very rare that these ideas pop up unseeded by culture". What a poignant summary of the absolute social contagion and indoctrination that this ideology thrives on, aided and abetted by the distressing prevalence of the herd mentality. I love listening to Ms. Joyce, whose soaring intelligence and eloquence provide such a refreshing voice of logic and sanity amidst all this craziness.
Well said. A common activist retort to _any_ critical pushback on the trans stuff is "Why are _you_ so concerned about it?" as if there isn't a deliberate push from the far left to indoctrinate children with these destructive ideas.
Hyperbolic I know, but Helen Joyce is almost the perfect distillation of moral clarity, empirical analysis, educational brevity and all bundled together in a package of powerful communicative skill. Suffice to say, I'm a fan
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
I have been studying up on this since hearing about Tickle v Giggle. Sall Grover is also excellent in providing insight. I previously shuddered and avoided thinking this was a topic with any relevance for me. Incorrect. We all are being affected and harmed by being led to accept deceptive thinking and policies. Helen Joyce is fantastic.
True. When it affect children it affect all of us.
You're in for quite a ride! It's fascinating, scary and utterly insane. For further listening, I'd recommend the channels Triggernometry, Peter Boghossian and Andrew Gold. After a year of immersing myself in this topic, I predict it'll be the kids who end this madness, but not before 1000s of them have had irreversible damage inflicted upon them, which they later come to regret. Heads must roll.
And definitely check out Gender a Wider lens, especially their pioneer series. Dr. Riittakerttu Kaltiala (from Finland) is great to listen to on this podcast, and anything with Zhenya Abbruzzese.
@@katiademarco8564thank you for these references. I am learning from the best.
@@pwcinlathose channels are very informative.
I love how Helen trims all the hysteria and dross away, uses plain neutral language and creates a straightforward narrative. So easy to follow and understand.
Good job John Anderson, ask a question then give space, Helen never disappoints.
Best explanation about the trans-gender-ideology I've ever heard. Thank you, Helen Joyce .. and thank you, John Anderson. 🙏
That was a bitter pill to swallow. I knew things were bad, but I didn't know it was that bad. Props to her for being articulate and giving voice to suspicions that I have held for a long time. Finally those that have been suffering in silence will be vindicated. Finally this madness will be brought to an end.
Unfortunately the future gens will suffer because of what is happening .....the transgenderism is still strong, but knowing that there are literal sterile people now because of this....we might be heading in China's footsteps in terms of lack of population sooner or later...
Helen Joyce is just a great speaker. Informative, unapologetic and often very funny. I would enjoy listening to her speak on any topic.
Good lord--Helen Joyce is just amazing. How can this malicious ideology continue in the face of eloquence like Joyce's pushing back?
Because most mainstream media deliberately ignores her i guess...
I love her! Such a kind, compassionate, intelligent woman. Every parent should be listening to her
Bravo, Standing ovation ....... this should be shown to all adults, and children
Helen presents thoroughly researched information without an agenda - she is just reporting the truth and doing so exceptionally well.
Nooo she still has an agenda (everyone does) just happens to be one you agree with!
@@abcxyz2927 she has excellent analysis and has clear evidence based views. Calling it an “agenda” is misleading
@@JohnJames-kw5de I’m not calling what she’s talking about an agenda.. but she has her own biases and agenda long before she became involved in the transgender debate
@@abcxyz2927 Yeah she has this horrible agenda of depicting the situation objectively and fairly and analyzing studies on their merits. Pure evil
@@robertmarshall2502 That ALL depends on your point of view… doesn’t it?
Joyce did an incredible job in this interview
She talks so much sense. Love this woman
Helen is intelligent, articulate, bright and brave. Her arguments are well researched - she’s right across all aspects of this ideology and its impacts. She is compassionate to kids and parents that find themselves influenced intothis trans cult.
Another wonderful conversation between two non-deranged people discussing derangement. Samizdat for our time!
Точно!
Time for the adults in the room to be adults, take back the conversation, and follow science and common sense instead of a political ideology.
Very intelligent woman. Nice to see and hear there are still sane people willing to fight this horror with everythiing within their power. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I've watched and listened to what seems like hundreds of interviews/podcasts on this topic over the past few years, many with Helen. This one was superb. Thank you Helen and John. I live in Victoria and am horrified that we're still forging ahead with this evil. It's astonishing and heartbreaking.
Please sign and share the petition on the Victorian government website calling for an inquiry into child transgender medicine.
@@soniaess28 Done. Thank you.
Helen Joyce is so genuine, smart and compelling, I wish I had her courage of conviction. So instead I will stand here and cheer her on and spread the knowledge she shares with us with anyone who will listen.
Excellent overview of Cass report. Bravo Helen.
fk me, Helen Joyce is articulate, conscientious and brave
Those lobbyist groups and NGOs are trying to start this BS at South African school now 😭😭 - as in taught in curriculum. Department of Education has been pledged R40Mil by a Belgian entity to do this. Currently a Bill in question. Save us Helen Joyce.
Always love listening to Helen. In Canada though, the province of Alberta is pushing back against children having irreversible treatments.
In Australia we are so far behind. Every year more states and territories are passing new Self-ID laws and mandating “affirmation only” for paediatricians and psychologists. 😢
In Ontario, too, we're pushing back against the government doing ridiculous things in general (like the COVID vaccine/lockdown protests), so I think that the younger generation is tired of this Woke BS and is fighting back against it. Wokeness appears to me to just be a social trend, not a true political stance.
@@Hollyucinogen that is very heartening to hear
@@alexandragrace8164 I have been hearing about the craziness in Australia and New Zealand, I’m sorry.
@@Hollyucinogen Do not underestimate how deeply politically driven this is! Look up Transhumanism and politics around surrogacy for instance.
Whenever I see Helen Joyce’s pink study, tension leaves my shoulders.
Mmmmm peeeaaach...
Do you feel good with her about her and misinformation?
@@michelledavis-classicalg-cp8by Precisely what misinformation?
@z4zillah556 that dna determines gender. That gender is a social construct. That gender dysphoria is a influenced by upbringing. She has a degree in mathematics which isn't even a science
Helen is a legend & hopefully the tide is turning because of the work she & others are doing.
Prof Joyce is brilliant.
This should be the top video on YT.
Agreed! Like and Share share share 👍
I wish I could learn this talk by heart and recite it calmly at any point of discussion
This is simply the greatest blast of common sense I have heard in the last five years. Absolutely phenomenal interview.
It is shocking that 6 out of 7 English NHS GIDS clinics refused to provide patient outcomes data to Cass, despite being told to do so by the Government.
So grateful to Helen Joyce and others who are speaking out with their research and experience.
Helen Joyce is a true hero.
The sheer magnitude of this Greatest Lie of the century is beyond words.The deception and evil is on another level.
I have always referred to this subject as The Greatest Lie Ever Told
We must do everything we can to protect international treasure, Helen Joyce. She’s the one who will get us out of this mess!
what an absolutely brilliant interview. Thank you both so much. I really hope that here in Australia the powers that be are taking note of the Cass report and stop harming these vulnerable young people. It is really criminal that this has been allowed to happen. Fantastic interview John, thank you so much.
Just watched Helen interviewed by Australian psychotherapist Nesh Nikolic. Nesh asked questions and proferred opinions with more insight into the human condition that anyone I have ever heard interview her with before. Well worth you looking it up here on YT.
Helen's larger point about the sunk cost fallacy and the current attempts to not keep records and even hide what some health care providers have done FROM THEMSELVES is, for me, the biggest piece of it all now.
Joyce is doing such good clear writing on this topic. You never see her on the ABC.
I wonder why (sarcasm)?
Oh, the Earth's magnetism will reverse itself before the ABC admits they are in the wrong on this issue.
Helen Joyce is amazing. History will look back on the likes of her, JK Rowling, Glinner, etc. as true heroes fighting against evil.
Everyone needs to watch this! Congrats to Helen Joyce. God bless her!
I'm such a big fan of Helen, and her book is extremely good.
You’ve hit the nail on the head with a social contagion.
The people responsible especially the "trans" activists need to be criminally prosecuted and sued as well.
One wise woman wrote in a comment section like this that she prepared her child for puberty by saying things like you will feel uncomfortable in your own skin, you will not know what or who you are, because you are in a state of becoming, but this is ok and most of your peers will feel the same. Hopefully, the children who have been warned of puberty (if they have little else to worry about and not much co-morbidity) will attribute their distress to the actual culprit - puberty pains - and will understand that it will at some point go away.
Lots of us didn’t ever feel strange about puberty. Many didn’t pay much attention to it. It was just something that happened. I certainly wouldn’t have wanted to be told I would feel uncomfortable in my skin because I never did. Many never did.
@@minoozolala Congratulations! Almost all people I know were very uncomfortable in many ways during puberty.
@@minoozolalaI agree with you, I don't recall ever hearing the word 'discomfort' in relation to puberty, not a good idea to suggest that
I understand the approach. Though, I think it's rather futile to have such conversations with children who are about to go through puberty or whose puberty is just beginning. They won't know what the adult is talking about because they won't know until this period is long over. The difficulty between parents and children is actually always speechlessness in the face of the complexity of human feelings. Puberty must unfold organically in the sense that all adults and all young people do the same thing and thus make a statement that stands for itself. Not by words, but by being. As children, for example, we sang rhymes that included things like getting married and finding a husband or wife. We sang them because we had been picking them up somewhere, but not because we already understood their meaning. We were surrounded by people who got married, at whose weddings we children ran around, we witnessed certain rituals between the sexes that we simply accepted because they were the way they were. All the activities in their meaning of masculinity and femininity took place before our eyes and because this adult world led by example, as a child you didn't have to do anything more than watch and accept as "coherent" how adults lived their lives. That did spare most of the anxieties and discomforts in a pubescent state - and having those insecurities is probably the influence of non coherence. They can be overcome though, since adulthood is a chance to reflect on them and leave them behind. The world of nowadays kids is different, sadly. Parents are often divorced or have changing partners or the kids grow up with single moms. Some never get into a relationship again. No wonder they become confused.
@@ERH-ph5gb I am one of those single mums. Widowed when the kids were still little. However, I am right now having a teenager who is suffering heavily under puberty. I HAVE to tell her that confusion, anger, sudden euphoria and equally sudden dysphoria, as well as the want to creep out of your own skin, is rather common in puberty, because she feels as if she is going mad. While she is actually just a plagued teenager. I can't let her figure that out for herself.
Outstanding and remarkable work John and Helen Joyce exposing and declaring the truth! 💯 God bless you! 💯✝️🕊🙏 🙌 ❤️🇨🇦🇬🇧🇦🇺🇮🇱🇺🇸
Few things make me angry. Child abuse, especially abuse that is being approved and encouraged by adults who should know better, makes my blood boil.
On point and accurate. We are experiencing a horrible, worldwide, unstable contagion that needs sunlight, exposure.
It's almost unreal what has happened...thank you for your strong voice and research, Helen....it gives me hope that people like you are leading the fight.
Yes reading all that adult harry potter fan fiction in big text for all to see on the train, lots of important research there
@@samanthapatrick4345 Maybe you should read her book. Learn something about yourself.
@@lewreed1871 Every trans person on this planet know's themselves better than she ever will, sure she can write all the books she wants to about trans people but she will never ever know them better than they know themselves.
@@samanthapatrick4345hahahahahahaha. No they dont thats why they are the way they are. They are the most sexist people on the planet. They dont buck stereotypes they reinforce them.
A psychologist who worked at the Tavistock call it the "Trans Factory".
I love listening to Helen Joyce.
Thank You for the work You do!
"A social contagion" is an excellent descriptor of this phenomenon. Definitely a great deal of cases have come about by positive inducement.
Bless You Helen Joyce;keep up the good fight.
In Queensland the former Education minister has a child that she proudly refers to as non-binary. There is little doubt in my mind that this belief would have to influence her decision making when setting policy in this area.
She should be embarrassed, so much for her being educated, I feel sorry for her daughter
What a smart, passionate, valued, mannered and great to watch woman. Dr Joyce ! @Dr Helen Joyce. You inspired both the method for evidence based facts and debate, and also an enlightening subtle views on my normally favourite John Anderson. A few deft jabs of self effacing truth was impressive. Very, very best to you Dr. Joyce.
Thank you Helen Joyce for articulating the truth about this issue so very well. You have my full admiration 🙏
Wow. Helen Joyce is brilliant as well as a true human being
I listen to all her interviews and I am amazed that every interview has new insights.
Another fantastic Helen Joyce interview. Thank you for your willingness to listen so intently John and for giving Helen free rein to get these pertinent points across.
We need to be emailing decision makers about the CASSReview and collating their inaction for the inevitable future Royal commission. And when we do it, we need to do a follow up email making sure that they can’t “forget” by explaining that their inaction has been collected for any future Royal commission 😅
She`s great
John Anderson has asked some of the best questions I've heard in the interviews on this subject. He gets straight to the heart of the matter.
At 43 minutes when she talks about 10 year old girls I could cry. My daughter is 10. She asked me the other day if a woman could have a kid without a man. I explained to her. A child of that age can’t possibly consent.
My 12yo says she doesn't want kids and will simply adopt or use a surrogate if she changes her mind. She has no idea even at 12. They absolutely can't consent
@@sometimesawful they also severely underestimate how hard it is to use a surrogate or adopt. Many adults do this even.
@@tracyaf6084 or how it's basically buying a woman's body, and really unethical.
@@sometimesawful surrogacy? I guess could be argued that way though it depends. I know someone who did it for her sister (without payment of course).
@@tracyaf6084 it's different when it's altruistic, to a point, but really the industry itself, which isn't allowed here in Oz, allows anyone who can afford it to purchase a baby, or plenty, and it's poor women who take up the offer. Basically prostitution.
What a brilliant communicator
More people need to watch this.
This is probably the best discussion I've seen on the issue.
Thank you so much for such deep dive into the topic.
An incredible conversation. Ms. Joyce articulated this issue in a well-informed, compassionate way I've not heard before. I understand for the first time that this is a tragedy.
A very poignant and distressing conversation. Thank you for this brilliant interview.
I love Helen Joyce wholeheartedly - someone who can be truthful and direct without ever being mean, someone who has withstood an avalanche of abuse but has not let it make her bitter, someone whose honesty and compassion makes her an antidote to all the viciousness in this debate - she should be the first recourse for anyone trying to understand trans.
This is just brilliant. The best interview I've seen or read on the issue to date. And so enlightening. Helen Joyce is such an impressive person.
YEP!
Absolutely THE best coverage of this topic I have seen. Keep up the excellent work!!
What a great informative and necessary discussion. Thank you for that.
Helen Joyce is a whole package kind of a woman ❤❤❤. The way she comunicates is brilliant, Joyce and Dawkings are the ying and yang in the intelectual world, there both so brilliant and despite the complexities of the topics, you can understand what there saying.
I like how you put it and I agree. They are simply the best!
@@paolitamacia ♥
Calling ALL current and former NCAA female athletes! The NCAA President Charlie Baker and Board is meeting in 3 days on April 25. They NEED to hear from their female athletes about why women's sports must be protected for female athletes:
‼ ‼ ‼
A local primary school has a teacher that arrives as a Male and change's into a female only on school Grounds and leaves school as male, kids being pushed for misgendering, what's going on there
Indoctrination tactic.
That's a man who is no longer able to keep his fetish private. In my opinion, he has made himself unfit for teaching and should resign or be sacked. Fetishes should be kept out of public life, especially away from children.
Needs to be sacked.
Autogynophilia ….?
@@lks6248 correct!
If I had a quid for all the Genders, then I'd have two quid and shed loads of counterfeits.
They'd still be counterfeit unless you called them by their proper name: sexes.
Great conversation.
This was an EXCELLENT talk. Helen Joyce is in top form and it’s humbling to see her get a bit angry and emotional about this, because she more than anyone knows what this ideology has done and what else is at stake.
This was a very, very good interview. Much thanks to you both.
Wonderful interview with Helen. A brilliant and compassionate summary of where we are, how we got here and hopefully the way forward.
It’s so good that British women like Helen and men like Graham linehan are getting this information out in Australia even though their MSM are covering up since they have been institutionally captured.
~ How can you claim to know the lifelong diagnosis of a child's personality? We should tend to the child's mind like you would cook a small fish... with great care, to not destroy it by overcooking and breaking up its form.
While I agree with you, that is a very specific and unusual metaphor
Agreed. It's an interesting metaphor. Unique and individual. I love the way metaphors can be very mundane but appeal to a wide audience. Some metaphors appeal to a narrow audience. Sometimes, the metaphor will move from the narrow audience to a much broader audience. That becomes a successful metaphor. Ah, the experimentation of creative writing.
Helens “native land” is Ireland though sadly her objective work was largely ignored here and now it is possibly too late for over 200 Irish children referred to the Tavistock by our national health service.
"I IDENTIFY AS" just means "I pretend to be".
You hit the bullseye with this comment!
I have been posting this exact same comment for the last five years, I'm so glad to see it's finally catching on!
Wow. I thought this was going to be a right wing hit piece. Thanks for the comprehensive and compassionate response.
What information do you think you have obtained to make you think this would be “right wing”? I’m genuinely interested to know
@@JohnJames-kw5de The thumbnail image itself?
@@bpalpha I don't get it
Wonderful interview. I looked to see if I could borrow Helen Joyce's book "Trans" from the Ottawa Public Library. (I am Canadian.) It was available. When I checked the user reviews of the book, there was obviously an organized campaign by trans activists to disparage the book. The average review was 3.5 stars, but most of the reviewers gave the book 4, 4.5 or 5 stars. The average review was only so low because of a swathe of reviewers who gave the book 0.5 stars with brief savage comments, often profane, directed against it.
They did this on Goodreads too when it was first published, many of them didn't even read the book, I remember one review basically having only read a couple of pages, and were offended at what was being said, threw it in the garbage and told everyone else to do the same. It's an excellent book btw, highly informative and very much a must-read to anyone interested in the topic.
@@jovialnobody Thank you for the recommendation, jovial. I will read it as soon as possible.
I'm surprised you were even able to get it there!
@@lewreed1871 Thank you for your reply, Lew. I wasn't sure it would be available when I looked for it, as I wouldn't say the OPL goes out of its way to order books that are offensive to trans activists. I suggested the OPL purchase a copy of "Unsporting: How the Trans Activists and Science Denial Are Destroying Sport". It was written by a pair of Canadian women, one of whom, Linda Blade, recently stepped down as head of Athletics Alberta. My request was denied due to their limited budget.
@@andrewbaldwin4454 More than 20 publishers rejected Joyce's book, so we're truly fortunate to have it. I would recommend getting a later edition (it's been reprinted a few times now), simply because the later editions carry an index and numbered references, whereas my first edition just has "Further Reading". The later editions are better if you plan to use it as a reference. I agree with the other commenter, it's very good. As is Kathleen Stock's 'Material Girls'. It was actually Stock who stepped in to help Joyce with her publishing problem, and Stock's publisher for 'Material Girls' agreed to publish 'Trans'. Bit of publishing trivia for you! Although it's not so trivial. Publishing is completely captured by this garbage.