Chambering a Rifle Barrel Pt 1
2023 ж. 2 Сәу.
34 870 Рет қаралды
First published on our Patreon channel April 18, 2019, we are now releasing this for our KZhead channel.
In this video Randy demonstrates his dedication and craftsmanship in chambering a barrel in a way to ensure top accuracy. The final video will show Randy finishing the chambering and assuring high tolerances.
God bless.
randyscustomrifles/shop
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I want to go and follow him around for a month or so. There is a saying that goes “when an old man dies a library burns to the ground” Thank you for sharing your knowledge
Thank you! God bless.
This is great. Hands on plus commentary. Priceless thank you.
Thank you very much, I really hoped to see exactly this someday from you. Thank you and Mrs. Gunsmith for showing us.
Have to say that was pretty awesome to watch. While I don't agree with some of the stuff in you videos and point of views ,this was great to see and hear. Well done
A real machinist, loving his craft, and it shows.
I have had Randy work on a few of my rifles. He always does an amazing job! I will always go back!
thank you sir for this valuable lesson
That was superb. watching a true craftsman at work.
I sure hope you plan on teaching someone or several apprentices your techniques so your methods can be continued if and when you retire, for years to come. That would be a big blessing and contribution to the custom firearms community
Looking very forward to a complete series on rifling a barrel
I wish I would have went to gunsmithing school years ago. I had the opportunity, but chose a different path. Nothing beats custom hand work from a master craftsman.
Your a true professional. Thanks for showing us your methods. Great for the next generation of gunsmiths.
Great video, Randy. I am always interested in learning. The knowledge you have is invaluable to many. I am disabled and enjoy watching the making of accurate rifles. My body is limited but my spirit is not. I wish you could post the entire build of a rifle, but I understand KZhead prevents that. It is so interesting to see it done. God bless. KZhead thinks just anyone can make a rifle that is far from true. It takes skill to do it and equipment.
As a machinist myself I’ve been searching on KZhead for real machinists videos and finally found someone that does explain the process and I’m looking forward to seeing all your videos and learning as well. Thank you for sharing your knowledge 🙌🏽
I like watching someone who knows what they are doing and dont care what anyone else says because they ABSOLUTELY know they are correct about it and unapologetic in the explanation of it not many people like this man left in today’s world.
I really like this, showing how a true hands on machinest does it. Describing Feel , Method and absoulte accuracy . Thank you Randy S!!! ❤
I lived in TRINIDAD COLO 55 years ago Great memories adventures walked all around the mountains good to see a master still doing what he does so well.
Cool randy
Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks, very informative.
Amazing sir!!
Randy My first mentor Doun Rose attended the COLORADO Gunsmith School in the 50’s. He specialized in Custom Rifle building with purchased actions or converted Mauser, Enfield, and Springfield. Custom handloading with Hollywood and RCBS Presses. General repair. Your method of chambering has been used by me years ago. Observations: aligning the reamer with dog attached is a finesse method to guide in straight, as well as cw rotation to break chip at exit of bbl. ; additional oil as well as moving chips away with can spout. Since we just started the process, the next part 2 is coming. I found the activity, with critical machinist execution for greatest accuracy along with stated specific instructions with excellent teaching as well as learning. The excellent camera work ( audio/ video) is greatly appreciated for the legacy you have shared with your audience. I often share these with others who appreciate your life experiences and willingness to remind us of the physical ballistic truths previously demonstrated. As opposed to antidotal hearsay! Hoping for entire .264 Magnum evolution build. Jerry Moran 🦅🙏
Thanks for sharing. I'll touch on this in a future video. We truly appreciate your following. Take care. God bless!
Awesome to see. I took machine shop in high school and had planned to go into this field but became an electrician and millwright instead.
This is so cool... knowing my rifle is in your shop awaiting for its new barrel chambering !
Hi, Fascinating. You make it look easy. A"detail" you are not talking about is how to correctly set up your lathe. You know your equipment is correctly set up- because you did it. The time, methods and expertise required to correctly set up your equipment would be a fascinating video. AND if ALL the equipment/ tools are not set up correctly the work you or anyone else does is not going to be correct.I think this is what most people cannot comprehend.
Thanks for sharing
Love the passion!
My favorite video so far! Thank you sir!
One of the few that is left....... awesome! Thanks for sharing your method....
Hello and thank you for sharing your experience.
Old ways work , like model A cars . I am really glad things progressed to a Cadillac so I dont have to ride in your Model A. You sir seem to be so full of yourself and your perfect ways of doing things that you block the advancement of new and better ways of doing things. What a shame because you are the one that could really appreciate the many advancements in your field.
Yes Sir, I did love watching you work and I can see the passion you have for the art of Gunsmithing. And I would definitely love to have you do some work for me also
I would love to own this piece of history from a true legend
Good old school machining. Make them round and straight. Thank you.
Brings back my machine shop days in Votech for 3 years never could get a job in a machine shop after Vo tech though.
Thank you Randy that was a great video you are real professional not afraid to show your methods the whole world
I appreciate that!
Your patience rivals Job, excellent video, I hope to own one soon.
Thank you! I'll be glad to help when you are ready.
I have a pre-64 feather weight 264 Winchester Magnum. It shoots one hole groups at 100 yards. It was just a barrelled action from the factory. And resides in a maple 🍁 thumbhole stock. That has been Glass Beaded. I love This round and also bought a VZ-24 Mauser chambered in 264 Winchester Magnum. Both guns are very accurate. But the Winchester is more accurate than the VZ-24 Mauser. The VZ-24 is very capable of shooting 1/2" or smaller groups with my hands loads. So it is still a super nice rifle. Nice to watch someone who knows what they are doing when setting up a new rifle barrel. Keep up the videos. I want to learn to be a great gunsmith. And chamber guns as well as thread barrels for precision shooting. I love to watch how it is done by someone who knows what they are doing. I'll be getting a used lathe to start out more than likely. But have built precision parts. So I know what to check for on the ways of the lathe to make sure it still cuts straight. Or as close as one will. Because none of them are exactly perfect most of the time Especially if they are used. I'll be subscribing to your channel as well. Thanks!
Yes. Experience, care and this gentleman's attention to detail . And I agree, the most accurate chamber fit increases accuracy . With his hand on the tool holder he feels the cutting action and the vibration. There is no chatter. And then absolutely select new brass from a quality manufacturer. Automated manufacturing will never produce consistent quality that an experienced Smith that cares and has intelligence will produce. Anyone can produce junk. Certifications and training are meaningless without care and common sense. Very good. The best I have seen. Thank You.
I love my 264mag. I have a 26” Krieger for my 264mag with a 1:8.5 twist. It stabilizes 140 and 156gr with great accuracy.
I do this also and have improved accuracy every time I have done it. Of course I don't do it on guns that have no accuracy problems. I have made my own video on my channel. It is a technique that I learned from some airgunners. I always put a wad in the barrel to stop stuff from going into the barrel. Then I put some oil and then the lapping compound. You start going with the drill and it works it into a slurry and you just keep moving the machine around in a circle as you showed. Although I run it much faster than you because it doesn't really create much heat because of the oil. This last barrel, I cut into it just far enough to reveal that there is significant damage in the bore of the 10-22 and I have to go ahead and replace the barrel.
Awesome video. I hope you have trained someone in the next generation your craft.
Great video. I’d love to send you a rifle to rebarrel maybe in a 25-06 ackley improved.
I would love to visit a shop like this one at a time pride based stuff. I want to bad to start smithing. I was an absolute gun junky my whole preteen and adolescent life and then for some reason out of concern for the trade going to the point where people would go with fast high yoeld guns. But now jnkick myself and wonder if my early mid 30s is too late
Great Video! I love learning the old time methods. Can you tell us what cutting oil you use to cut the chamber?
Simply a light cutting oil. I get what I use at Ace Hardware. Thanks for watching.
I can certainly appreciate your apparent experience and knowledge sir, and this is demonstration is intriguing to those of us entering into gunsmithing. However, your way is only one way, not "the" way, and a 50/50 chance of not being the best way. This method of imparting information is almost more discouraging than inspiring. To put it bluntly, I would check ego at the door. There's always someone better... God bless and best of luck.
Just wondering what the twist rate is ? In my experience 's a barrel ends up being stripped when firing a fast load with a heavier bullet twist such as a 50gr .223shot out of a barrel with a 1/7 twist rate and expecting good results !
Einstein said that ego equals knowledge
The very definitions of the terms 'skilled labor', 'hand made' and 'made in USA'. If you were curious, here's your visual aid.
Thank you!
The first American hunting 6.5 is the 256 Newton.
I routinely tell my 2 boys that learning from ol’timers is a cheat code for real life. Telling ya how it is, but taking the time to explain why. Jeez, I miss my Grampa.
I actually like this way of chambering. However, all the big-time competition shooters are chambering through the headstock or shooting rifles chambered through the headstock. Chambering on a steadyrest was the preferred method up until around the 90s. Many of the old time smiths use this method because thats how they were trained in their gunsmithing schools back in the day. The metod used today by most competition shooters is chambering through the headstock and indicating the barrel off the lands inside the rifle... Does anybody know of any competition winners who shoot barrels chambered on the steadyrest? I'd really like to know. Great work! Thanks for showing us your skills!
Ollie Tabooger
@@g-mc4507har har
Holy Runout batman...
My old BDL 30/06 wouldn't shoot any factory ammunition under 1 inch. I took all of the brass from that gun and neck to sized it and then it shot .75.inch groups. This was still not the answer. Then it took me about 2 years of going to the range once a month testing the o.a.l. different lengths to find the sweet spot, and finally found it to be 3.283 with the bullets I use. I will never change anything on this old gun because it will poke all three into a single jagged hole at 100 yards when the wind isn't blowing. At 200 yards it's dead on after coming raising the elevation 2 minutes up. That old gun and me have shot more one hole groups than the rest of my guns. My 257 Weatherby has the smallest group of 3 at 100 yards after reloading. I always let them skinny barrels cool for a minimum of 15 minutes between shots. This is the hardest thing to do, but it sure gives me extreme confidence when I am hunting in the field. I will not shoot at any game animals over 300 yards with my beloved non magnums, and never over 350 with my magnums. I don't carry shooting sticks or nothing to rest my rifles on when I'm hunting, because I don't want the fuss of toting all that extra gear. I improvise.
It's an interesting process, I admire watching your videos. What's the distance between centres of that lathe? What's the lathe?
It is an Enco Turn Pro, and they come in various sizes, to fit most needs. Thanks for watching.
Since you are working between the 3 jaw chuck and steady rest, can you show from the very begining, how you machine the journal for the steady rest and if you also machine a journal for the 3 jaw chuck? Many thanks for you patience, you have my big respect sir!
Do you ever pre cut barrel bores/lans and grooves like say for a .30 caliber or whatever you sell the most common calibers of just to have them on hand and then cut chamber after or does it have to all specific after you know exactly wjat gu
I don't make barrels, though I have the ability, not the time or interest. I buy barrel blanks, rifled to caliber and twist needed, I do all of the work from there. Hart barrels are my top choice. I don't keep barrels on hand, as I don't want to tie up funds in product that may sit around until we have a call for it. Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmithThank you, for taking the time to answer. I've been obsessed with firearms since I got my first rifle (pre 64' 25-35 win).. I enjoy the self defense rifles but nothing intrigues me like hunting rifles, and im putting some serious thought into going to a gunsmith school.
Randy, do you hold octagon barrels in the same fixture? Wouldn’t full length resizing of fired brass remove the dimensional issue?
First questions, yes. Second question, you are vague to what you are referring to. Reply here, with a question, so I'll be sure to see it. Thanks for watching.
I'd love to know what hes forgotten, my dream job
Hello. I have a few questions. I've watched a lot of videos on this topic. No one passes the workpiece through the hole in the spindle. They prefer to use an additional emphasis. You are like a person who has experience. Give me an answer on how to do this correctly, if I can pass the workpiece into the spindle hole to shorten the length. In addition, my billet is ~20 inches. The machine has a short bed ~ 15 inches.
Hi Randy. One question - how do you reference reamer depth? You are physically moving your tailstock so there is no reference line that I can tell. Once you know you need to go another 0.005" for example, how do you know when the 'new' cut starts? Is it just by feel (when your hand feels torque) or is there some other way?
There are .001 graduations on the tail stock dial. Thanks for watching.
Do you have backup power in case the electricity goes off. Nice work 🦌👍👀👂
Not necessarily. Thanks for watching.
I've been a machinist for 28 years and I've seen some videos of ppl cutting chambers near the chuck with a spider on the back of the spindle of the lathe which doesn't let you see if there's any runout in between the two chucking points. Using a steady rest is definitely the best way to cut a chamber on center. I love your videos. Mr.Selby
Correct. Thanks for watching.
You can indicate it off both ends
What's your opinion on the 35 whelen??? And I must say very cool video to
It is a very good cartridge. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching.
Everyone has a different idea of what is accurate. Can you define what you consider top accuracy? 1 moa? 1/4moa? Caliber size groups? Thanks Mr Selby.
In a hunting rifle I look for 1/2" or better. Bench rest or target rifle, better, 1/4", preferably, one tenth of an inch. Thanks for watching.
Actually, one more question if you don't mind. When you originally turned the knox between centers (so that your steady rest support would be concentric with the bore), how did you indicate the muzzle end? From what I can see in the picture and from your words, you are using a 'True chuck' which I assume means you can adjust for runout (like the Bison or Toolmex 6-jaws). The OD of the barrel is not necessarily concentric with the bore, so I am a bit confused (not challenging, just wanting to understand). Did you just lightly push the barrel bore onto a lathe center (either held in the chuck or inserted directly into the headstock spindle) and rely upon the self-centering? I understand your basic approach (I am a mechanical engineer and professor) and find it very interesting, but I get hung up on how you are ensuring that the headstock end is concentric with the bore and not the OD of the barrel. Thank you in advance for any help.
That’s the flaw in this I don’t use an indicator system you can’t make a 3 jaw make a bore run trie without a backing plate so there for the journal he cut isn’t concentric to the bore then he uses it to run off of.
The chuck reams true. No adjustment, centers automatically in the bore. Both diameter ends are turned true to the bore. Unfortunately, it seems you, and @ronsanchez2842 don't have the schooling that has taught you to do this. I appreciate you, @rbfreund, inquiring. But for Ron Sanchez to say there is a flaw in this method is a clear indication that the schooling in this method of machine work is very lacking. IT WORKS and has for years. Master Machinists [at least those of us that are more mature] and those, like the late Les Bowman, my great mentor, a trained mechanical engineer, use[d] this and it is very, very accurate or I would NOT be doing this. Thanks for watching.
Do you use a 4 jaw chuck in the headstock?
No, I use true 3 jaw chuck and stead rest, which aligns the barrel perfectly true for a perfect chamber job. Lost count of the many, many I've done this way in over 50 years. Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmith Do you use a dial test indicator to align the bore/barrel or do you have good luck just using the steady rest and tailstock center? thanks.
Running a lathe with sleeves, gives me the heeby jeebies
From the Real Gunsmith's Wife: He's been doing this for 50 years and no issues because he is diligent and pays attention. When the shop is his preferred temp of mid 50's, he's not going to be in short or sleeveless tops. He learned from the best and they wore long sleeves, too, as they, too, were diligent and careful.
@@TheRealGunsmith I'm not judging, to each their own, it's just not for me
Clambering the way Randy does it minimizes almost any chance of getting snagged. For others clambering close to the spinning chuck with the barrel buried deep into the chuck it's very dangerous.
@@14goldmedals perhaps, but I'm gonna wager it's not just chambering he does in long sleeves.
@@14goldmedals Correct! And after 50+ years of doing this way, mostly with long sleeves, not eve any close calls.
What kind of cutting oil you using?
I've been using Ace Thread Cutting Oil for a # of years and find it works very well, and the price is great. Thanks for watching.
I need a barrel for my 300 wby. How can i go about getting one from you?
You'll have to go to our website, always listed at the end of each video. At the bottom of each page is an "Email", or go to the contact page and email us from there. I'll be glad to help. Thanks for watching.
Is there such as thing as a “match” chamber?
Yes, there is. And that is my purpose. In union with Hart Match barrels, the tops in accuracy. Thanks for watching.
what is a true chuck, meaning a set true?
Because it runs true. Look up "true chuck for lathes". ABM tools has a very clear explanation as do others. This is nothing new. Easy and quick to set up and as the name describes, true. Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmith I looked up your abm true chuck, its a normal scroll chuck
WELL SONUVA ... HERE I THOUGHT THIS FINE MAN WAS GETTING A LITTLE SLOW ... LOOK AT HIM MOVE BEHIND THAT PIECE OF MACHINERY . THATS LOVING WHAT YOU DO RIGHT THERE . WHEN YOU GET ALL HOT AND BOTHERED WITH WHAT YOU DO YOU HAVE ALREADY WON
How do you know that the bore is centered in the barrel? Then, how do you know that the barrel is centered in your machine?
He doesn't
Without indicating the barrel in on the bore, then cutting a fresh 60° center before putting it between centers, or using a live center to turn the shank(which is then run in the steady rest), you cannot know it is running true. The centers from the barrel makers are only for profiling the barrels, and can be grossly off center. I did one last week that the OD was .007"+ off center, so it out about .015" bore to shank. It was painful to watch this video.
Lifetime Toolmaker and competitive marksman. I agree with Chad.
@WES, @Mr. Quindazzi, @Chad Bakkene, @P Latzgo: None of you have a clue. You’ve not been properly schooled. A center is put in the bore on each end. This automatically centers on the barrel. The OD is turned to true the shank. The barrel is turned around the same done to the muzzle. Now you have a journal to chuck and a journal to running in the steady rest, adjusted properly. The chamber is cut absolutely true with correct fitting pilot. I’ve done tens of thousands of chambers, the most precision way there is. Dead true, each time, no run out. It is apparent that those making comments that this is not the way to do this, are not familiar with how to use a lathe. My chambers are perfect and the rifles they go on are proven by my clients and I for top accuracy. I am a master of chambering and handloading, a top combination. Targets prove this. Stay tuned for a video on this, since the naysayers say it can’t be true. Which is BS. Get on with LEARNING. But with the comments posted, perhaps it is beyond your skill to grasp this? Frankly, you have been taught incorrectly. Take a look at your chamber reamer. It has a center at each end. It’s ground on centers. BTW, have any of you TRIED this? Obviously not.
Having worked at a level of toolmaking most people never see I will assure you that nothing is “Perfect “ your process only may fall within “Acceptable level of deviation “ But as a matter of discussion, If a better process presented itself, would you consider the change ? I bet I know the answer to this.
Being from a line of metal smiths, "Rodriguez" 12th century Spain, blacksmithing, machining, tool and die, etc. I can say from my knowledge and experience this Gentleman knows his stuff. That machine is well oiled my friends. The sounds, the most crispness, you can hear the motor purrrr even the clink of the levers, spindle handles, after he lets go and they subtly bounce to a rest. I can spend a all day in a shop like that and appreciate the mastery of every aspect of a machine shop like his. Just listen to speak about this experience and just as if not more important his movements.
Randy, Did you thread the barrel? Also did you drill the barrel first then run the reamer?
Yes, of course I thread the barrel. I have a video on that and it is touched on in this or Part 2. I don't drill the barrel, but I ream it. Thanks for watching.
great video! you can tell you have lived long enough to have no tolerence for other peoples bullshit, lol
I would trade you a large pocket full of Canadian money for this rifle if it’s for sale sir ❤🇨🇦✌️
I only build rifles on custom orders, but thanks for the great compliment.
@@TheRealGunsmith fair enough sir, I’ll call you after Easter weekend
Not to brag.
That is certainly one way to do it.......for general gunsmithing.......but you are not going to win any competitions chambering that way......
You are dead wrong. I've built many rifles for competitions and they are winners. I have many, many repeat customers. The rifles are VERY accurate and will stand up against anyone's chambering methods with flying colors and beyond. This method far surpasses factory chambers.
@@TheRealGunsmith If you are comparing your results to factory.......that is your first mistake. I encourage you to take a look (or measurement) at the freebore diameter for inconsistency (off center) and take a look at a fired case at the .200 line......I bet you are getting excessive growth upon firing do to an oversized chamber. I have used your method and have seen others use it as well with similar problems. There are gunsmiths and then there are rifle builders.
He is making the assumption that the id of the barrel is running true with the od which is seldom the case ………
SMH! You are ignorant of what I do, despite watching [or not] my video. Please watch part 2, also. I true the OD to the ID and my jobs are 100% true. Proof is in the thousands and thousands of barrels done this way for myself, family, friends and thousands of clients over decades. I am expert at chambering this way. Accuracy is the proof, time and time and time again. For decades, many decades. A customer of 40 years, just shot a 1.500 group at 540 yards with a .270 Wby. I built for him.
@@TheRealGunsmith so you cut an od at the muzzle and breech end which you did not show, is this correct?
@tomgiorgini9154 Basically he takes the barrel and puts it between centers. Then he cuts the OD of the barrel concentric to the ID and he cuts 2 spots on the OD of the barrel. One spot that he uses for the steadyrest and the other spot at the muzzle of the barrel that gets chucked in the lathe. Then he puts the reamer on the tailstock center and cuts the chamber. This is how barrels were chambered back in the day and many old timers still use this method. However there are almost no professional competition shooters who chamber barrels this way anymore. And almost no competition shooters who shoot barrels chambered like thus. Barrels now that are used by the top competition shooters in the world are all chambered through the headstock and indicated off the ID of the barrel using the lands.... This guy learned this way and he's comfortable with it and he has repeatable success with it! So you can't argue with that really...
How does someone learn when they know everything.?.?...geez
I learn EVERY day, so should everyone.
You must be talking about your self 🤔😳😂
@@edwardabrams4972 nope
Randy do you make your own Reloading dies or do you bye factory made ones
Factory made dies. I've made my own, but it is time consuming. And with rare exceptions, which were taken care of, I've never had an issue. Thanks for watching.
Funny, I'm an old Tool & Die maker, years ago I made myself a floating reamer holder simply because everyone else used one. I hated it and have used it for things other then chamber reaming ever since. I am no master gunsmith but I use the exact same process you use instead of the hokey one shown so often used by the internet gunsmiths ! Of course I'm just build prairie dog and coyote rifles for my own use! Please keep making such great educational videos!👍