How O.P. Smith (UC Berkeley class of 1916) saved 15,000 Marines
2011 ж. 21 Нау.
99 920 Рет қаралды
The Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz Memorial Lecture
Thomas E. Ricks is a Senior Fellow at the Center for a New American Security (CNAS). Concurrently with his duties at CNAS, Ricks writes an online blog for ForeignPolicy.com called, "The Best Defense," serves as contributing editor for Foreign Policy.
nimitz.berkeley.edu/
Being right and a good officer doesn't make you remembered or help your career.... but it does save lives.
And that ultimately, is more important than any career or medals.
Amazing that saving lives does nothing for notoriety. The blood-thirsty should have no place anywhere near a war because they are already wounded. See "With the Old Breed" re the company commander on Okinawa. Full of shit before the battle; lost his shit before it was done. Makes Almond look like a genius and gentleman.
As Truman said ... it's amazing what can get done if no one cares who gets credit.
One of my co workers in Minnesota in the week before his retirement was found out to have been a Navy corpsman with the 1st Marine Division at ChoSen who had been awarded the Silver Star. He was a tall and fit fellow, always a gentleman, never cursed, and helpful to his co workers no matter who they were. I asked him about his experience, relating some of my father's experiences with the Army in his 18 months in Korea. "Since I was tall and strong I had to carry and use a BAR, despite being a medic. Really, all that I can remember after all these years it was cold, it was fu**ing cold."
lyntwo Shame mate, I watch a doco of Chosin... -25deg men froze to death n their holes.... the vid of Chinese with their bare feet frozen block of ice... and the fn stupid US government n military wanted to cross the river with McArthur want to use nukes..... all because yanks have been taught to piss their pants everytime anyone say socialist...🙄 shame those Marine didn’t deserve it🌹🇺🇸
idoj654123 absolutely , 2 things the Chinese were going to jump in, and great to note a wonderful time in US history, as long as those noting it... were freezing to death or no advantage at chosin🤔. US government n military lead did need to be so short sighted in their lack of listening to their commanders on the ground at chosin
I had a series of Navy corpsman attached to my rifle and weapons platoons in the Vietnam era. They were all good guys.
I had a geography teacher in the late ‘70’s who was in the Army Reserves as a Lt. Col, and had served in Korea. At one time he was fighting the Chinese, he said the Chinese soldiers did not all have weapons going into battle against American Marines and Army soldiers who were we very well armed. The Chinese kept their weapons at the front of the lines and it was up to the unarmed behind the armed to pick up the rifles left behind from the front line casualties. The Chinese soldiers kept coming and coming… Sadly, my teacher died coming back from a training, driving across Wisconsin, a deer ran out in front of his vehicle, he swerved and crashed head on into a semi-truck. Died instantly.
EB (Sledgehammer) Sledge wrote the very best book about men in combat that I have read. MacArthur needed an attitude adjustment out behind the barn. Narccistic. Some Marines pulled their buddie's frozen bodies behind them when no more vehicles were available. When it became impossible for airplanes to evacuate wounded and dead, some dead Marines were buried at the airstrip. The Marines brought all their dead, wounded and equipment with them. They brought Army vehicles also. Later when Army officers demanded their equipment back, they were asked where the equipment was abandoned? "Well go back there and get it".
Great book, With The Old Breed by EB Sledge
Finally, someone appreciates just how great a man Sledgehammer was
For anyone wondering James G. Hardbord was Pershing's Chief of Staff in France, Peyton March was Army Chief of Staff for the last 6 months of the war, and Tasker Bliss served as Chief of Staff from September 1917 to May 1918.
James G. Hardbord was the chief of staff for the AEF; the branch of the army tasked with the western theatre. As you said, Ricks was correct that March was the Army chief of staff that succeeded Bliss.
I really wish they had shown the slides.
*That guy saved 15000 marines?!* Damn, that guy is OP.
good pun
One of the best explanations of the battle I have ever heard. My father was in the land of the frozen chosen and has a tremendous hatred of MacArthur. One of his 3 purple heart citations reads "due to enemy air action". He said that he didn't know the North Koreans flew Corsairs with MARINES written on the side of them (thus no love for the Marines either). You need to look at what Truman did to the Army after the end of WWII. They had a multitude of incompetent officers and instead allowing the Army to weed them out they just denuded NCOs and non field grade officers of any authority. The result was a total lack of real leadership in the Army. It was so bad at one point that when Seoul got overrun that a general was operating a bazooka because all the lower ranks had broke and run.
Thank you. Thank God for your father and men like him.
감사합니다.
Well thats obe w a y to destroy an army..anotger is to purge the military of politivlcal unreliables....basically anyone not loyal to you or who sees things differently or has differing political views and replacing them with incompetant asskissing political chair warmers or people withva particular chariterestic such as skin color. Then you get per f ormance such as the pullout in Afghanistan and officers like Milley.
You know your history. Truman was a field grade RESERVE army artillery office proo to being welected president. Hecwasctremendously resentful that he had never been further promotedcand for that reason HATED and despised the militaey. AFTER the war he snd his literally psycho pal who hed made Secwar....now SecDef ...virtually dismantled and disarmed the US military after WW2. Which is why a pissant country like North Korea was able to initially kick the crap out if the US military in Korea. And why despite having perhaps some of the best military planes at the end of WW2 was flying obsolescent or obsolete planes against the Soviet Mig 15s. At least till the F86 was developed on a crash priority basis.
That would have been Maj. Gen. William Dean. Eventually he got cut off from his command, got lost and captured by the North Koreans. The treatment started right away as he would not be allowed to stand or lie down. When he was released he returned to the US and it was obvious that he was broken up emotionally and mentally. But he did say to his captors this: -You have to remember that all American generals are not as dumb as me. You just happened to catch the dumbest.
The Marines maintained their Combat Training after WW II despite constant efforts from some Congressional Leaders to serious consider disbanding the Corps as an unnecessary expense. When the Korean War started the Marines were as prepared for War as their could have been compared to the the lack of preparedness on the part of the present leadership in Washington. Another comment worth mentioning is that there still were many combat experience NCO that were still in the US Army in Service at the outbreak of the Korean War. My opinion and the Marine Corps historians that write on the Korean Conflict is: Had not the Marines not continued their arduous training prior to the War, the USA stood a very good chance of loosing the War early in the Conflict. Thank You for this Video.
What do you mean "stood a very good chance"? Heck the US Army DID lose the war at the outset. Were it not for US Marine reservists, our regular army would have been driven off the peninsula. How sad that US Marine Reserves were more prepared than our regular US Army.
@@lewjames6688 Yes. One thing that was a plus was the US Army had experienced NCO with Combat Experience. There was a Congressman, who was real big on disbanding the USMC; no longer necessary for future conflict. Also, diminished Army Preparedness. Thank God for the Commanding General - USMC - who kept up the training against pressure from Washington. Thank you for your response.
@@benjaminrush4443 Do you or anybody out there know the name of that Congressman?
@@lewjames6688 So Sorry. There is a Book/Audio Book by a USMC General ( Good ) and maybe something on the Korean Activation for Combat Intervention on the Web. Probably on the Military House Ways and Means Committee.
@@lewjames6688 Secretary of Defense Louis Arthur Johnson.
My uncle was taken prisoner at Chosin and spent his entire war in a POW Camp, where he saw unspeakable things and endured incredible hardship. He never spoke about his experience. He was the first POW released in the NYC area...coming back with injuries and TB. He died way before his time due to his experiences during that ordeal.
Love this lecture! Thank you for posting this.
Wow I love this Ricks guy, what a great researcher and speaker.
Smith pulled off a miracle in leadership. One of the Corps’ best.
Leadership, leadership, leadership. All important everywhere there are human institutions
I think the presentor wants our eyes on what he's pointing at, not him. Me too.
yah, terrible cameraman
@@ninelives6927 I made same point. The off screen content was key content.
I don't believe Ned Almond either. OP Smith greatest divisional commander in the Korean war.
and here I sit in a chair made in china at a desk made in china on a rug made in china watching a computer screen made in china
Careful, google will soon ban you for racism.
@@tophan5146 despite no mention of people. Todays world.
@@EnergeticWaves yall realize you havent been banned...?
Yep, can't buy local evening we want to. Covid sure showed the need to make our food, drugs etc at home. The global trading system is too fragile. Free trade is NOT outsourcing. Inside of abusing our works as companies did for a long time, they simply make things where are are few rules and workers get treated like chattel. Our gov'ts are culpable. To gave such agreements the stuff should gave to be made under the same conditions. China is not 'taking over' we are selling our birthright. Just sayin'
Outstanding.
Thanks for letting me know Amen 💕🤔💘
My Dad was at Chosin with 7th ID as an Infantryman. It does get tiring to constantly hear that it was a Marine operation, though I'm not decrying their part in it whatever, and ignore the soldiers who were also in on the breakout to Hungnam and evacuation.
The Army Task Force on the east side of the reservoir suffered for decades under the smear of having been cowardly, that they were overrun because they "bugged out" instead of fighting. The Army Task Force fought, fought on as unit cohesion was destroyed, groups reconstituted and led by surviving officers and non coms whether wounded or not, fought until fought out, equipment destroyed, ammunition and rations exhausted, nothing intact above maybe squad level, groups of mostly shot out wounded and frostbitten men who crossed or were dragged out across the reservoir to the Marines' lines, no intact unit left, only straggling survivors who had fought their way out. This came to be because the the 40mm shells that their M42 dusters required were not air dropped to them but piled up miles away for ground transport. They had to destroy their "Dusters" as they had no fuel to spare and no ammo to fire. Their Quads .50's then became subject to intense ground fire and the engines of the half tracks shot out. Those weapons thus were not available for the protection of the Army column down the road to the Reservoir. All the Army officers with the Task Force were killed or wounded as were most of the NCO's in the long running fight to the reservoir where they would have to attack ridge lines to clear the road from fire besides fighting from the road. They fought, and hopefully their honor and reputation shall be restored. I think this stark contrast of outcomes illustrates the level of leadership that O.P. Smith provided to the division under his command.
who was responsible for the lack of 40mm shells?
@@theflaver fail to plan = plan to fail.
Dan Fontaine the pilot and loadmaster that dropped it. It was supposed to go to the inlet perimeter but was dropped to the 31st Tank Company at Hudong-ni. But he blamed MacArthur and Almond for everything else, might as well blame them for that too.
Wounded battalion commanders were flown out from the east side by helicopter. Four medevacs . All Army commanders. Sorry. You need to read more.
@@williamfraser5593 How does your statement negate any of what I related?
would have been nice for the camera to pan to the maps...
Will it is a socialist commie college now so what do you expect. It's a wonder they don't celebrate Stalin birthday.
@@neganrex5693 Yeah, they got John Yoo preaching his commie hate for America there
Remember the Korean war, the Korean war veterans and OP Smith.
Also remember the soldiers of 31-RCT US Army who held the flank and gave the Marines he needed time.
In Canada we remember the Korean war often
@@LarryjB53 Yes the US Army did slow down the Chinese on the flanks, but frankly they were nothing more than cannon fodder. Their "stand" was anything but heroic.
Lecture begins at 6:35
I have one major problem with OP Smith. He essentially doomed Task Force Faith by withdrawing the Headquarters and 31st Tank company to Hararu-ri. The final breakout column met it's final tragic fate within spitting distance of where that HQ was located. He also failed to make contact with, or really in any meaningful way attempt to assist them in their predicament. Only 4 wounded troops were medivac'd and had he ordered the breakout earlier they might have fared slightly better. The fact that tank ammo was dropped to the inlet parameter and the much needed 40 MM the M-19's used were sent to the rear CP were utterly inexcusable. RCT 31 was left to die, and the fact that it took decades to clear up the shame heaped upon them by the Marine command (and one jackass Navy Chaplain) is a stain upon 1st MarDiv.
Thats a good point however "spitting distance" was actually a mile or more. AND, the tankers had been pushed back from going further the previous day in serious fighting. The real issue was Army units strung out on the east side and not adequately prepared for the chinese night attacks on the 27th and 28th of November.
This is the second posting of the same event on video. I would look at the other one to get a better understanding and especially the comments that are made regarding this.
I wonder what that last question would ave been.
They are both wrong about the chief of staff, it was General Bliss.
Correct: Peyton C. March was Chief of Staff of the United States Army, right after the war and James Harbord was chief of staff to Pershing in France.
Actually, the questioner was totally wrong (despite "looking it up"...whoops). Ricks was partially right in that March was Chief towards the end of the war, but Bliss was Chief during the first part.
Would have been nice to see the visual aids.
a great account of history.
I would greatly disagree.
What did we learn? Prepare for the worst, hope for the best
God bless him
Correct 💯💯💯
Amazing story.
IT is an amazing story, but Ricks gets more wrong than right. To understand the Chosin, I would ask the following questions. There are more than a few things that stand out in my mind that should be addressed, and I would argue should have at least held a Board of Inquiry at some point post The Chosin Battle. A) The 170 plus men that engaged a Chinese supply depot on the 26th south of Toktong pass to Yudam-ni. Three men killed, They didn't not return to retrieve their bodies. A Congressional Medal of Honor was bestowed to one man. Why didn't the battle begin on the 26th based on their findings of that lost fight. B) Who ordered the tank to be with drawn from Hudong-ni on the 29th and why didn't they run into the Chinese who took the east hill at Hagaru? Faith believed that he would be saved if he got back to the tanks at Hudong. But alas they were not there. C) Why did O.P. Smith have is Area of Operation taken away from him time and time again. Was it his request? Or was it the understanding that Almond had on Smith, that regardless of what Almond ordered, Smith wasn't going to follow through with it. D) Why under Operational Order 27 did MacLean have plans to take over positions originally assigned to Smith's Marines. E) Why did Litzenberg take 11 days to go from Hagaru to Yudam-ni? F) Why did a full RGT of Murray's 5th Marines remain east of Chosin on the 27th even though they were ordered to go to Yudam-ni and in fact sent half of his group to Yudam-ni the day before? Is this why the 31RCT was not fully in place by 10 pm Nov. 27 because they had been slowed by Murray's 5th marines passing through their position at Hudong-ni and Hagaru? G) How did Murray's 5th Marines make it to Yudam-ni by evening of the 27th (less than 24 hours) but it took Litzenberg 11 days to get there? H) How much opposition was there at Hagaru when at night, they were still using bulldozers with headlights cutting in the runway at Hagaru on nights that they were supposed to be under attack.? I) According to Stafford, the 79th PLA was attacking A Co. on the east side along with the 80th and 81st PLA, but the marines say that the 79 was attacking them on the west side at Yudam-ni? J) Why was the 2bn 31st held up for two days without vehicles? k) Why wasn't the British Commandos not running I@R missions south of Toktong pass as they were ordered. L) Operational Order OpO 7 shows Puller's 1st Marines to pass through Murray's 5th Marines to go further west to Kangye, but never got into postion to ever do that? M) Why was the movement west to help the 8th Army assigned to the 7th ID after so many orders prior to OpO 8 showed that Smith's Marines were supposed to do this? N) On the 29th when O.P. Smith was given full control of al forces east and west of the Chosin, did he not establish radio contact with his command? O) What were the actions that Gen. O.P. Smith did to support the Army on the East of the Chosin as he was given those responsibilities. P) What was Gen. Smith's issues with being under the Operational Control of the U.S. Army? His history will spell that out. All of these questions can be answered two ways. 1) your personal research. 2) You can read Vallowe's "What history Failed to Record". Available for free at www.Koreanwareducator.com. IMHO the only way to truly understand the failures and successes at the Chosin can only be measured by the answering of these questions. To hold the fullest understanding of the actions at the Chosin, one must have a map, and a timeline to see it drawn out. I would argue that you should read Appleman, Russ, Rasula, Julia Precious, Ray Vallowe. For myself, I have been able to find the actions of the 2bn 31st E/Co that so many historians have said were not there. When in fact they were. I know of four people that were there, but good luck finding a verification in any of the documentation thus presented. Of course it helps if you know the Sgt. that was overseeing this small band of survivors. Raymond Hooker Cottrell. Chosin Survivor, 2Bn 31st infantry. He entered Korea at 17, and left in Dec. 51 as Master Sgt. Robert Brooks 'Chosin Reservoir' Facebook Group page. and www.bobbrooks-books.com Show less
very poorly recounted by Ricks.
Great lecture, but... err... nope, I can't see any of the things you are pointing to off screen.
The stakes where higher then. People who didn't succeed where pushed out of the way and replaced by more capable men. They didn't have any choice if they wanted to win the war. Think how many generals were under 30 in WWII.
I'm binge watching his lectures and I would strongly recommend another speech he gave at UC Berkley Events called "Why our generals were more successful in World War II than in Korea, Vietnam or Iraq/Afghanistan". In it he argues that the Korean War was a turning point in the history of US military in terms of relieving ineffective generals.
Skip to 6:40
I have a hope that this story may one day become a Sabaton song.
When did Doug M meet with Marshall during war world 2? Doug left the USA 1935 and did not return to the USA till 1951.
Now, that's just O.P.
Well, over on USMCU, when they talk about the battle, they don't mention Allman at all. The ONLY command that they name is Vice Admiral Wilkinson, USN; Maj Gen Geiger who commanded some of the 1st Marine Div and the Army's 81st infantry div; Maj Gen Rupertus,-1st Mar div and under his command none other than Chesty Puller; 5th Marines commanded by Col Harris; 7th Marines by Col Hanneken; and 11th marines by Col Harrison. Maj Gen Meuller commanded the Army's 81st division. Marine casualties were 1,336 killed and 5,450 wounded while the 81st Infantry Division suffered 1,393 casualties including 208 killed in action. On Angaur, the 81st Infantry Division had 1,676 casualties, including 196 killed in action. The Japanese lost an estimated 10,695 men, with an additional 301 taken as prisoners of war.
So if the nation’s highest award was awarded for political reasons, why is it now not withdrawn? Does it reflect a “taint” on the award? After the civil war their was quite a few withdrawn from their awardees just for that reason.
One of the very few who was awarded two CMHs said that the second one was all political. General Smedley Butler.
The camera man done a poor job. He wouldn’t let viewers see the map u was pointing to.
14.06 citation of book to read.
This guy is a cheerleader for the MC.
I do not understand why, when you go to all the trouble to arrange such a fantastic presentation, people come to listen, and after delving into the topic for close to an hour, you allow 1 single question and cut off all questions after that????????????
Marshall Peng Du Hai, much later, fell out so deeply w Mao when he was DISGUSTED by Mao’s abject apathy to the massacre caused by the Great Leap Forward, cursed the day he won victories for Mao instead of China
Semper Fi
Shit, you are a Marine like I am the fucking King of Siam!
Poor O.P., everybody knows Howling Smith, because of his nickname if nothing else.
6:40
Your not doing your job right if your business or group can't run just the same and just as good without you
You can't negotiate with evil
Strong Jared diamond energy
Isn't China making blockbuster movies about this, these days?
If not for 31-RCT of the US ARMY heroic stand in slowing down those Chinese army divisions "East of Chosin" the way they did. That marine division would have been wiped out.
It's true they did block those Chinese divisions, but even by their own admission, the US Army "stand" was anything but "heroic". It was, to use the vocabulary of the day, a clusterf*ck.
@@lewjames6688 It was a heroic stand by all means. The 31st RCT was put in that precarious position by none other than Marine general OP Smith himself. He created that cluster**k and then lied about it.
@@stinkypete891 What evidence do you have that OP Smith lied about it? Surely you don't believe the autobiography of Ned Almond? (The WW2 general who blamed all his failures on having to lead black US Army troops, saying they wouldn't fight?)
@@lewjames6688 Almond was a POS, but so was Smith.
@@stinkypete891 Based on what? Just his actions at Hagaru-ri? Please explain.
Crap camera work, this guy keeps referring to a map off camera, "IF YOU LOOK ON THIS MAP" a quote often made.
Faith was WIA (and later killed) leading the attack on the last road block assaulted before it all totally fell apart. Of the men in that attack, none had a full clip of ammo for their M1. They were totally out of ammo. The Marines were at full strength with their ranks filled by WWII Marines recalled to active duty. The Army RCT (-) was not at full strength and about 20% of their infantry were poorly trained KATUSA with little or no knowledge of English; makes for bad command and control problems. They were bad mouthed by a Navy Chaplain that I don't think was even there. Without them, the Marine HQ would probably have been over run and the 5th and 7th Marines cut off. The Marines did great, but there were a whole lot of them
Thank you so much for sharing with me this fragment of history. The Bible foretells a time when peace will be achieved not through mankind. Psalm 46:9 says regarding the Creator, Jehovah God: “He is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth.” Jehovah God will accomplish true peace by means of his Kingdom, for which many sincere people have repeatedly prayed Matthew 6:9, 10: "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth." His Kingdom is not an elusive condition of the heart; it is a real government through which God will establish peace from one end of the earth to the other. The inspired prophet Isaiah foretold that subjects of that government will not “learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4) By means of a worldwide educational program, people will learn to live in peace and thus “beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears.”
... This important History, ... not "forgotten" history - but "swept under the rug" history. It is particularly disturbing to me that the Marine Manual I was issued had so much on renown Marines - however neither Gen. O.P. Smith, or two-time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient Gen. Smedley Butler were mentioned. The fact that Gen. Smith was snubbed by the military for "bucking the chain of command" and out-showing his command while under duress in the field - is deplorable and the record needs to be corrected ...Thank You Mr. Thomas E. Ricks
Cameraman needs to pan to the map. As President Dementia would say, ‘’Come on, man!’
No need to bring pointless contemporary partisanship into this...anyone can all feel frustration that the maps were not shown.
Better than bonespurs
@@FloridatedH2O Dementia is not a political opinion. It is a factual disease.
To be fair to MacArthur, if not for his Inchan landing today we would probably had only one Corea, and it would be red. But his most important legacy is political and not military: the forging of the modern Japan. And he understood much before the others that Pacific, and not the Europe would be the central stage of the fight for global supremacy. It is up to you to judge if his achievements outweigh his shortcomings or not.
Can you elaborate on "Pacific, and not the Europe would be the central stage of the fight for global supremacy"? I don't think I understand so it's hard to disagree. Do you reckon that the Japanese in East Asia having to fight everyone around them were a bigger threat than Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and, at the time, Soviet Russia combined? I mean even looking at casualties, I'm not sure how you can compare defeating Japan to defeating Nazi Germany. I'm just curious where you're coming from.
@@JerzyFeliksKlein Hi Jerzy. I am not reffering here to the decision to privilege the Europe or Pacific in the war effort. That was an extremely complex decision that I could hardly evaluate with any degree of confidence. I was rather talking on the lifelong effort by Arthur and Douglas MacArthur, father and son, to convince the nation to build a strong power base in Pacific, because the center of the world economic life would gradually switch from Europe to Asia. That is exactly what we are seeing now, with rise of Japan, South Korea and China.
Patton wasn't insane, but he was a classic case of Attention Deficit Disorder -- literally checks all of the boxes on the diagnostic criteria.
Moron!
Please fire your “sound man”
The lighting for these videos is terrible
Mountains. It is a valley in mountains. And some people think that US can invade Iran. LoL.
Wow. Now when I explain my decision not to join the Marines I can simply say "They forgot O.P., what he did, and why he did it. I can't put my life in dead hands." It's the perfect encapsulation of what I had only intuited back then: a simplistic preference for aggression and conformity. Now there is your "mass psychosis." Funny they train that way.
I studied Western constabulary operations since childhood (I was an odd duck to say the least, most pre-teens don't read Bernard Fall) and noted Western and especially US ignorance and mismanagement. My father was a WWII Army vet and I grew up around WWII, Korean and Viet Nam vets (I missed that war by a few years). Their advice was why I joined the Air Force rather than the Corps or Army (the Army during the Hollow Force era was even more of an epic mess than during the late Viet Nam era of combat refusals etc). I knew the valor of our ground forces would be squandered by leadership and except for Desert Storm (thanks to Norman Schwarzkopf and other Nam vets) that is precisely what happened, the Pyrrhic victory after invading Iraq also being of zero benefit to the American public. I enjoyed my career fixing fighters and would happily do it again, but misuse of our ground forces and mediocre senior leadership will not be addressed until they lose a nation-state war. The American public cannot demand reform because it is too intellectually mediocre to understand foreign policy or military affairs and utterly uninterested. That leave the professionals and their reformers are weeded out before they make rank.
Talk about on and on. Just announce the speaker rather than go on with your personal accomplishments. Over 6 minutes? Really? Fascinating stories, but the speakers are not very good.
At least you can skip forward on youtube
Brits land in Belgium and were given the order to 'advance towards the beach' as soon as they meet German forces. Oliver Prince Smith is most noted for commanding the 1st Marine Division during the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, where he said "Retreat, hell! We're not retreating, we're just advancing in a different direction.". So he's famous for plagiarism and retreating?
Let me preface my comments, I was a Marine for 8 years, 3 deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq. However...... I’ve read a lot of this guy’s stuff and he has a hardly-veiled contempt for MacArthur and anyone that was around him, except of course Dwight Eisenhower. Every speech he gives is tailored to support his writings on the “Marshall Army of WWII”. Once you realize that, then his seemingly hateful cherry picking of situations, reports, and character flaws of people he’s referring to makes sense. How much of this hazy cloud of silliness that he throws over MacArthur and Almond is actually because MacArthur was an avowed Republican and was fired by Truman. Ricks is overtly political in much of his books (I refused to buy them, but have read nearly all of them after checking them out of the post library). He even judges Almond’s opinion of black Soldiers using today’s morals and values. (I certainly feel that their treatment was abhorrent but I have the luxury of living in 2019). As to the question of the 31st RCT on the east side of the reservoir, yes, there were errors made. Unfortunately for Ricks, it wasn’t necessarily Almond’s fault. As to Faith’s experience in WWII, he made all 4 combat jumps the 82nd made and no he wasn’t an aide to Ridgeway the whole war, that entirely false. It’s not like he didn’t have any experience at all in a military sense prior to the Korean War. He was considered one of the best and brightest young Lieutenant Colonels in the Army at the time of he formed 1-32 Infantry. He was previously the CO of the 1st Squadron of the 12th Cavalry. So you could say that 1-32 was his second Battalion command. A few other things about the fate of the 31st RCT: -Neither Faith not Maclean (the actual CO of the Task Force) occupied the positions on Hill 1221. That could have been because they expected 2/31 to occupy them (they never got there and was chewed up during Task Force Drysdale’s movement from Koto-ri to Hagaru. Impossible to know now, MacLean and Faith are both dead. Hill 1221 commanded the north, east and southeast of the road through the Paeguri-gang Inlet. -Maclean did not consolidate his Regiment before moving into the forward positions. -Maclean let 3/31 and 1/57 FA set up in a tactically indefensible position and was out of communication with both 7th ID and 1st MARDIV throughout the entire fight. -31st Tank Company never made it past Hill 1221 going north. They were turned back by captured anti-tank weapons from the positions on Hill 1221. There was no infantry support available. -On the day before the breakout, someone ordered the 31st Tank Company to move back from Hudong-ni to the Marine perimeter at Hagaru. At the time they moved, Tactical Control of the 31st had been passed from Major General Barr to Major General Smith. That said, best we can tell is that Barr made the order and had his Deputy transmit the order to Captain Drake (CO of the Tank Co.). Later, when Almond was notified by Barr that it had happened, Almond was horrified and furious. However, the Tank Co. was put on the Marine line and had a rather good deal to do with repulsing the Chinese attack from East Hill that night. -During the breakout attempt on December 1st, Marine Air dropped napalm on the lead elements of the Task Force within 15 minutes of the breakout starting. -Due to communications problems there was no reconnaissance of the route the breakout was to take. There was a blown bridge that had to be bypassed using an M19 track to tow all the wheeled vehicles through one at a time. -There was no Artillery or Mortar support for the breakout. -Due to the 31st Tank Company being gone from Hudong-ni, there was no support from the south to assist in reducing the fire block and road blocks at and just past the hairpin turn on Hill 1221. It was at this point that the breakout convoy was ultimately stopped and due to officers being wounded or killed, once Faith was wounded above the heart by grenade fragments in the final assault and clearance of the hairpin turn fireblock/roadblock, everything came apart. -Oh, and I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention that there was a manpower issue with both the Marines and 7th ID as a whole. By and large, the Marine units that fought at Chosin were over strength with an aggregate of about 25000 Marines. The only Koreans assigned to 1st MARDIV were translators. 7th ID was understrength. It was used to round out the rest of the divisions in 8th Army and was backfilled with replacements and each company had 50 Katusas (Korean Augmentee to the United States Army). Each Infantry Company on the east side of Chosin had on average about 145 Americans and 50 Katusas. Also, they were short an Infantry Battalion that never made it after the Chinese closed the MSR by way of Hellfire Valley. The average size of Marine companies in the Reservoir area at the onset of hostilities was 225. Tom Ricks has actually ignored the fact that the Marine Corps added RCT-31 to the Presidential Unit Citation for it’s action in protecting the Marine Base at Hagaru-ri at the cost of a thousand lives and another thousand wounded. They stopped the 80th CCF Division and reduced it to combat ineffective. It was never seen on the battlefield again as a formation during the Korean War. That Division was supposed to meet with the 79th CCF Division in the assault on Hagaru-ri. But when the 80th was stopped, the 79th couldn’t sustain against the Marine perimeter. But ultimately, O.P. Smith was absolutely on point with fighting his division. He massed combat power through the use of mutually supporting positions from Hagaru to Yudam-ni. His completion of the airfield (which did not become operational when Ricks said it did) saved many many lives. General Smith should have been awarded the Medal of Honor for his retrograde to the sea. Ricks didn’t have to attempt to tear down others to prop up General Smith, his actions and command of his division speaks for itself and stands on its own merits. He sounds like a bitter old man.
MacArthur was an insubordinate and insufferable, egomaniacal asshole.He should have been subject to Courts Martial and reduced in rank. If ever there were a hero in his own mind, it would have been MacArthur.
You should start a KZhead channel! Interesting detail, thanks.
Andy Potanin Thanks brother. I get tired of people selectively ignoring the contributions of one formation to pat another on the back.
Lt Col Faith was an aide and staff officer during WW2. He saw combat but was not in a leadership position. His experience as a battalion commander could not have been much; less than 2 years. He was with General Barr until 1949 working with the Military Mission to China. Faith was a very talented officer but in the end he had only 9 years in the army. He went from 2nd Lieutenant to Lieutenant Colonel with no leadership training beyond OCS and no wartime leadership experience.
i always wondered why those army tanks did not help support the retreat.
More like: "How O.P Smith doomed all the men East of Chosin by allowing the 31st Tank Company and 31st Rear at Hudong-ni to withdraw to Hagaru-ri just a day before Task Force Faith was annihilated by the CCF." That would at least be an accurate appraisal.
Colin. Actually, 485 soldiers were re issued rifles when they wandered into Haguru Ri and later walked out with the Marine Division after they'd been fed. General Smith said those 485 were not effective during the fight to break out and head south however. The Army tanks were pushed back by chinese troops and never made it to the strung out Army units that fell apart on the east side of the reservoir. Many many more soldiers jumped onto transports flying out of the Haguru air strip. estimates are as high as 1000 or more. At the same time , the 5th and 7th Marines were fighting their way BACK to Haguru from Yudamni on the west side and dealing with FOUR chinese divisions. You should do some reading . The Marines and Smith saved a lot of soldiers because they held Haguru while under constant enemy attack from all sides. Army commanders really dropped the ball at Chosin. Blaming the Marines who were responsible for bringing at least some of those soldiers out without familiarizing yourself with the facts of the campaign , while possibly satisfying for you, is a lie..
@@williamfraser5593 Thanks for the detailed response. Always nice to see a well thought out post on KZhead. I have done plenty of reading on Chosin (perhaps not as much as you), and I don't mean to come across like I'm blaming the Marines (I'm really not), but it's hard to overlook Smith's decision, and then his subsequent moves to prevent the men East of Chosin from even being honored. Some of them fought bravely. That said, I won't bother to dispute your assessment about the Army commanders; they blew it in more ways than one, and the overall breakout was a poorly coordinated debacle. But let's face it: a lot of the officers responsible paid the ultimate price, too.
@@williamfraser5593 Op smith switched sides of the Chosen Reservoir with the army giving them the most difficult terrain. Smith also took 31-RCTs own tank support and medical detachment as well. If not for the 31-RCT stubborn resistance, there would have been no hope of the marine's successful retreat to the sea. Watch the documentary TASK FORCE FAITH. Even the marines now admit the US Army saved their butts.
Yep I agree the 30 nukes should have been done first thing
certainly from a berkeley that he would no longer recognize as the classic university that it was when he attended...
Semper Fi
Yeah, like you could ever get in. GFY! (BA, Cal, '76)
There is always a Patton nerd..
The guy asking the last question was very annoying and also wrong with his long winded story about Marshall and Roosevelt.
I didn't know David Letterman was giving military history lectures.
Should have let them use the nukes...
and where would you have liked the soviet nukes to land in the USA
@@richardmeyeroff7397 What, you mean the 5 test nukes they had in 1950 that had to be dropped from a bomber capable of getting away from the blast that wasn't built until 1952? The Americans would have trounced the Soviet Union and crippled them with war reparations.
@@TheHuntermj no. The US as a land force was heavily reduced compared to their World War Two counterpart. They were not prepared for world war three. Second off, if we used nukes. The overwhelming majority of the bombers carrying those nukes would of been shot down. The rate at which our bombers were being destroyed in the Korean War would of made our nukes useless.
I really, really like Mr. Ricks, but his outright hatred for MacArthur in his heart is ignoble, unjust and taints his mind in not insignificant ways.
Nope, Macca deserves everything he got.
MacArthur was an ego maniac and a narcissist. there were many who wanted him relieved of duty when he landed in Australia because even though he knew of the Pearl Harbor attack His planes were still lined up next to the runway and what tanks and men he had were barely put on alert so many were caught flat footed.
really no person who never served an hour in the military should be teaching military history apart from Victor Davis Hanson
Lol ok cult member
My minds eye cannot envision an ROTC at Berkeley,its like trying to envision an honest democrat party .
Well, seeing as how you didn't attend ROTC, weren't a commissioned officer in any branch, and didn't go to Cal, I'd say that what you can "envision" is irrelevant.
How many of trumps people have had to plead the 5th amendment now? Talk about criminal...
Is there not one person who is going to tell this individual that decent people do not take a drink next to a microphone? This is a lack of potty training, writ large.
How picayune. Have you ever stood in front of an audience over several nights and lectured for an hour or so? I would suggest the problem concerns a pole and its location in a particular part of your anatomy. Perhaps you should focus on content, not the trivial aspects of what you perceive as ill-manners.
@@williamswenson5315 Yeah, but he's right. It's gross. Nice of you to distract everyone with your conspicuous virtue.
@@craigwall9536 I stand by my earlier comments. While I do not represent myself as some paragon of virtue, I did feel "wuff's" comment was childish given the seriousness of the subject matter. We can disagree during public discourse, but we should not resort to bathroom humor. There is already too much of that out there.
yawn.
The Korean War began because Truman decided to virtually disbanding the US military and disarming it because he basically hated it . Then his State Department was ambiguous on whether or not the US would defend Korea. The combination of stupid poli c is on the part of Truman encouraged the USSR CHINA AND NORTH KOREA. MacArthur made or allowed two disastrous decisions during the war.First that the North Koreans wouldn't attack. Second thst the Chinese wouldn't attack. MacArthur 2 mistakes were based on his isolation in Japan an over fiancé on an incompetznt staff of ass kisses and his preconceptions. When MacArthur was personally involved he was capable of genius such as the Inchon landing combined with the Pusan breakout. The Allies never did get their act together till after the replacement of Walker and the replacement of MacArthur by Ridgeway an outstanding Wwii combat army officer. Fast forward to present day. The US currency and historically has been ambiguous about Taiwan with the current administration even more so. The US has allowed the deterioration of its military equipment e nt in tes of quantity technical ability and numbers. And the Generals and admirals have little or no relevant combat experience against peer opponents. And you have a Democratic Administration hell bent on fighting Russia and China at the same time. Finally you gave a group of senior armchair ass kissing Generals and admirals who are political a imams with lite ir no tCgi or strategic skills relevant to large scale combat. By the way K R McMaster the commander of the lead brigade that punched out the RdpublicN guard armor in 73 Easting and performed very well in counterinsurgency in Iraq just got fired from the advisory board West Point ...for not sharing the values of the current administration. This right after the current administration and its pet tsmd politically correct armchair Generals less than impressive performance under the command of the State Departments Blinken in the withdrawal from Afghanistan. ABANDONiNG EQUIPMENT OF 85 BILLION ALLIES AND AMERICANS. This group of inept gutlessoudmouthdd politically woke fumbles had better pray that they do not get into a shooting war with Russia or China. Because they'll get a whole lot of troops killed before someone smarten up and replaces them. If in fact there's time to replace them. For the first time since the war of 1822 the YS has the possibility of fighting adversaries that outnumber it 4 to 1 have more equipment more advance equipment in greater numbers in some areas and greater manufacturing capability. The US won't have the luxury if coming back for Round 2 if Round 1 is a debacle. Guam and Pearl and other American bases are relatively undefeated against a sneak Chinese Russian hypersonic missile attack. Can anyone spell Pearl Harbor Dec 7 1941? The woke crowd better wake up. It's very late in the day. Or they could just surrender to China and hope to be left alone. Just as with the Taliban. By the way the Navy and the Air Farce have finally succeeded in destroying the Marine Corp. With the complete cooperation I n of the current ass kissing commandant. They've arranged to deprive the Marine Corp of organic Air and Armour. Have your read the BS theory for how the Marine Corp will be used in the future? It's absurd and stupid. Finally can anyone say that there is the equivalent of an Admiral King ir General Marshall in Washington today? Becsuse theycreallyvwere the archirects of AmericsdxWW2 successes.
This gentleman is a fair speaker but not a good speaker. I wish I could teach him but I can’t get to him. If any of your friends of his first and foremost as they say, when you go for a drink of water back away from the microphone. No one wants to hear water going into your mouth down your throat and then the after sound of your mouth after the water has left it. It’s grotesque. The speaker tends to speak in a monotone his voice really goes up or down really speeds up and slows down. Maybe he’s read these words 1000 Times before and he’s lost interested in saying them but I doubt it very much. He wins forward and every time I’ve seen him speak his face is in the dark. We do not see this man’s face very often. when you talk to people they want to see your face they want to see the person who is doing the speaking they wanna see your facial expressions. It’s normal and natural. But he robs audience of that..
Terrible speaker: slow, arrogrant, choppy, poor presentation he could not have relied on PowerPoint slides? He's not a very bright man!
Doing better than you?
Jeepers Don. Should he give his Pulitzer Prize back then ? Glad you still have yours.