"Fighting a Lost War: The German Army in 1943" by Dr. Robert Citino
1943 marked the end for the German Army's advance in World War II. The German forces, known as the Wehrmacht, lost the initiative on all fronts, and found themselves on the defensive against the U.S, British, and Soviet forces slowly pushing their way into the German heartland. Pulling material from German primary sources and information collected in his book, The Wehrmacht Retreats: Fighting a Lost War, 1943, award winning author Dr. Robert M. Citino will discuss the reactions and decisions made after the tables turned against the German forces. The decisions made by the Fuhrer, Adolf Hitler, the German High Command, and the German Officer Corps helped to bring about the end of the Wehrmacht’s command of continental Europe. Despite the effects of the command’s disastrous decisions, the German Army maintained cohesion, morale, and aggression, prolonging the bloody conflict. Join us for an in-depth look at the decisions made by the Wehrmacht, which lead them to their eventual defeat.
Length: 63 Minutes
Lecture Date: May 21, 2014
It’s actually not permitted under KZhead rules to upload Citino lectures with good audio.
Or video.
This made me laugh!! So true
Lmfao
He needs his own audio man to travel with him, do enjoy your comment and his content tho
Indeed
I took a few classes with Dr. Citino when he was a professor at Eastern Michigan University. I was so enamored of his lectures I asked him to sign a waiver so I could take a graduate class of his even though I was still an undergrad. I worked my academic ass off in that class just to barely earn a "B" but I loved, and learned from, every minute of it. A few years later he wrote a recommendation letter for me to enter the PhD program at EMU. Thanks for everything you did for your students, Dr. Citino....
Congrats, that’s awesome!
Funny bc Michigan is just 10 miles away. He teaches history as a topic to learn from, not just something to get emotional and triggered from, though, so EMU it was.
I'm retired now so I have time to immerse myself in watching hours and hours of brilliant WW2 history like this. It's so good. The stories of WW2 are captivating, devastatingly destructive, sad and yet addictive. WW2 is the greatest story ever told, with thousands of contributors. Mankind's biggest failure to date. Vanity, pride, arrogance and sheer dogged determination and refusal to surrender. RIP to all its victims.
Surrender was not an option even for the most decent of Wehrmacht soldiers in 1943, as the Western allies already had decided to sacrifice large parts of European population by giving millions of people into the hands of Stalin. Stalin was called "oncle Joe" by his supporters in contemporarian US governments and his crimes had been sugarcoated until 1947...
Yeah... that's why the wehrmacht couldn't surrender. Golly why were the soviet soldiers so willing to go exterminate Germans I wonder who started it hmmmmmmm. Germany was happy to hand poles over to Stalin in 1939 since when are we acting like the soldiers had any say in any of this what have you been inhaling.
@@BiggestCorvid do you have any knowledge on what happened under Soviet occupation in the Baltics, Finland, Ukraine, Ruthenia, Romanian, Bulgaria, Poland or Prussia? Do you even know where these countries are situated? Probably, refering to the stupidity of your answer, you have no clue at all. And no knowledge on any of the topics related.
Do you like Tom Petty?
True
"..calling the U.S. troops 'our Italians'" Damn Britain a burn of that magnitude might be considered a war crime
Michael Piperni corelli 12
Well....if we were the italians they were our welfare recipients...so which is worse?
copsondonuts you tosser made a mint out of us....where were you in 1939....making money, while my people were dying and keeping you free....
@@Jimits123 oooooh....and here i thought europeans didnt want us playing 'policeman'...
copsondonuts Roosevelt wanted to break up the British empire for trading reasons.....back stabbing crippled bastard....
"We didn't really lose that war, and we're gonna prove it this time by getting DESTROYED" is literally the best line ever delivered at USAHEC
bit like america and vietnam then
"Pfft, WWI wasn''t a defeat. You want to see a defeat? We'll show you a defeat!"
@@odoggow8157 Vietnam joined the 'WTO' in 2007'. Hearts & Minds dude.
@@odoggow8157 No, Vietnam is in the American sphere of influence today!!
the vietnam war was the worlds largest most terrible and bloody missed high five in history imo. if the americans could of looked past their ideology they would of found the perfect bulwark against the chinese, a much truer foe. Its truly tragic how much blood had to be spilled for the americans to realize this
Germans never reached their strategic objectives, they never got to the strategic resources that they so desperately needed. Their logistical situation was a total disaster.
@Andrew Ongais Giving up on Sealion was the only possible thing. The Army wanted to land on a broad front to secure a lot of beach heads and have a chance at winning, the Navy wanted to land on a narrow strip because they didn't have the ships to defend or transport the required troops. Both were unfeasible. It was impossible.
Andrew Ongais The problem is that the allies were the ones who began to create new fronts. The Germans technically only created the eastern front while the western front was (in my opinion) fully created through DDay and the southern front (Italy) was fully created through Operation Husky.
It goes much deeper than lack of resources. Manufacturing capability, manpower, lack of motorized vehicles for supplies. They lost the war as soon as it started.
@Andrew Ongais oh definitely. But we could have given Germany all the magic tools it wanted and it still would have lost the war. It was a war of attrition and Germany just would have never won.
@Andrew Ongais it's not like they could even pull Sealion off and the summer of 1941 is the best time for Germany to invade the USSR.
One correction: "Steher" indeed means "Stander" but it doesn't mean that you're somebody who stays were told to. It's actually a normal colloquial expression in the German language. It basically means "tough guy" and originates in horse riding. A Steher is a horse that brings the best performance over a long distance.
You mean a "stayer".
@@thumbsdownbandit That's almost the same word indeed.
@@JJVernigno, it isn't. To translate Steher to stayer is completely wrong. They're false friends a linguist would say.
Germany was screwed with lack of oil production. One of the reasons they invaded the Soviet Union. The US produced 70% of the worlds crude oil at the time.
Fuel consumption in thousands of tons. 1941 Wehrmacht - 4567 thousand tons. Red Army - 1718 (half a year). 1942 Wehrmacht - 4410 thousand tons. Red Army - 2765 thousand tons. 1943 Wehrmacht - 4762 thousand tons. Red Army - 3338 thousand tons. 1944 Wehrmacht - no data. Red army - 3919 thousand tons.
losing in north africa didnt help
true, that is also why the were forced to invade the soviet, admitted by hitler in the mannerheim recording. the soviet was preparing to invade Romania, Germany oil supply.
they invaded the Soviet Union because the jew tell him so, and hitler her puppet in place do it.
the comedy in this is real. the sovjet union provided germany with oil until they were attacked. germany never got as much oil out of the occupied part as they got basicly for free before
This is a class I would get an A in and stay for HOURS!!! My lord why arent more professors like this.....
Dunno where you go to collage but in my experience a lot of professors (especially history professors) are like this when they get really into their subjects of expertise.
i will tell you why, most are not like this as they have self respect and some sort of integrity. now i know why all you americans are so fuking thick. your lecturers are dumb fukers teaching a load of bullshit. a full half of what he said is absolute bullshit
@@odoggow8157 ...but you think that we should take you seriously? Someone who can't spell "fuckers" and argues like a 13 year old?
This ain't a class. People in uniform in the audience.
@doug dimidome And you said, "Trump is Hitler." You are officially never to be taken seriously again. As long as you live. Forever, even.
"Over by Christmas." The original was "Home before the leaves fall" - Kaiser Wilhelm II.
Kaiser bill was a very good shill
While he may have said that, von Moltke told him early on thta was not going to be the case. When they failed to take Paris quickly.
Beg pardon, but there's at least two dispatches from the US Civil War citing 'over by Christmas' or 'over by the first frost'. I suspect that over-estimating your chances in battle to your sovereign or civil leadership goes all the way back to Sargon of Akkad 5000 years ago.
"Over by Christmas" became the new catch phrase, but the old standard in once short European wars was that they only lasted until everybody had to return home to get the crops in. That's where the first leaves line points to, I think.
Carl Hicks Jr Yet another case of history repeating itself. •sknert•
1:40 Not always, in 1914 Moltke went to the Kaiser and reccomend he make peace in ww1 because the chance for a quick win was over and the only war left would be one of attrition, the Kaiser told moltke he could get back to the war or hand in his resignation and Moltke handed in his resignation rather than be party to what would become the second bloodiest war of all time.
5 years late to reply, but I feel the need to present some context to anyone still reading this. Moltke the Younger had been butting heads with the Kaiser since before the war started and was not a fan of being in the war in the first place, unlike many of his colleagues. Even then he only told the Kaiser that the war is lost after suffering a complete mental breakdown, which is understandable since he was not only bungling a war but also literally dying with intense bladder and liver pain. Moltke would be dead by 1916. His behaviour was more of an anomaly than anything else, driven mostly by very personal reasons. That makes it an event unsuited to draw larger conclusions about the ancient Prussian officer corps from.
Citino does such an great job at answering questions, really teasing out what people are asking and giving the right level of detail
Great lecture, watched it 10 times by now. His passion, attitude and temper makes it even more entertaining than it should be! Thanks for uploading.
Germany lost the war on 19 -09-40 when Germany cancelled Operation Sealion.
@@brianbozo2447 LOL there was absolutely no shot at invading Britain, it was never even seriously discussed. He literally talks about this in his lecture... they started a war with great naval powers---without a strong enough navy of their own
@@brianbozo2447 Germany never had a chance of 'Winning' the war from the very beginning. This has been proven by many historians over the decades. Robert Cetino himself talks about this in this very lecture.
Great video, thanks for posting!
That's a great lecture, thank you Citino! Cheers from Brazil!
Informative, paced well and entertaining asides. Thank you, it was enjoyable
This guy is an incredibly compelling speaker - I was glued to this video despite its aggressive lack of visual interest.
Dr. Robert Citino is a great professor, he knows the great drama was in WW2 and the German Army.
Drama is the operative word. Hollywood drama.
Excellent lecture, excellent presentation, excellent delivery
Great articulate, knowledgeable speaker! Really enjoyed this. Watched twice. Thank you!
Great presentation. Really enjoyed it.
The answers to the questions at the end were really insightful, especially with regard to the treaty of Versailles, well done sir, I thought there was nothing more for me to know on this subject!
mattsmiddy40 that is sarcasm ?
Could you summarise?
I have watched this lecture all the way thorough three or four times, and I enjoy it every time.
Brilliant lecturer. It’s a complicated situation, requiring deep understanding.
This was a very interesting lecture. Thanks for posting.
Actually, the German phrase "A stone has fallen from my heart" is the the equivalent of "That's a load off my mind," and the insinuation isn't the best day of a person's life, but just relief that a sad or tragic situation has either turned out to be nothing or has been resolved. Given that a General said it, I'd guess it wasn't the happiest day of his life, but relief that a perceived wrong was finally being dealt with. Smug arrogance and "poor us" syndrome waiting for revenge.
This is an excellent lecture...very interesting and insightful. It is a lot better than most. Good stuff...thanks!
So I listened to all of this. ALL OF IT......I enjoyed 100% of this. I wish there were more like this. God I loved all of this...
You say that like it's some incredible thing to watch/listen to a 1 hour lecture without skipping. I agree though 😅
17:59 - I met a doctor (retired) who was there. He titled his lecture: Practicing Medicine Under Pressure (or Surgery Under Pressure). Gruesome stuff.
Citino is one of the best on this subject.
Except for his remark about Crete and the German airborne invasion causing the British to lose sleep lol. By the time the Germans were paratrooping into Crete, the Battle of Britain was long since over - having been won decisively by the British and effectively the destruction of the Western Europe Luftwaffe forces to the point that they never again posed any kind of serious threat to the Royal Airforce by way of men and machines. The true test of the German airborne forces would have been the capture of Malta - a similarly small island surrounded by enemy territory and slowly being starved into submission while also being a bastion between Italy and Africa. If there was ever an airborne target of significance, Malta was it. And yet no.
In February 1942 Reich Minister for Arms and Ammunition Fritz Todt told Hitler with tears in his eyes that the war was unarguably lost since both the USA and the USSR produced 5 or 6 times the amount of bombers as Germany. Shortly later Todt left the meeting and Albert Speer was meant to leave too but Hitler persuaded his architect friend to stay then Todt’s plane mysteriously blew up and Speer got the job and he must have realised at that time, just like Todt, that the best Germany could hope for was a truce since their industries couldn’t keep up and he was buying time for Hitler.
Interesting view Alex, but I do think you have watched a lot of Hollywood films. The reading I have done indicates that the majority of bombs were dropped by the RAF and not the Us, and certainly not the USSR. On D day most of the ships and aircraft were British, and the US force was slightly smaller that the combined British Empire force of U.K. and Canadian army. The point that many Americans miss though is the essential economic contribution the US made in Europe. That really was vital, and also supplied Russia , which was carried up to the USSR mostly by the British Merchant Navy which was so large that on any day there were about 2000 ships at sea. The Germans simply didn’t have the clout to sink enough of the, the Royal Navy was busy of course, since they sank the largest number of German U boats. Most people’s history is through the cinema. My advise is ignore most films, the6 are usually ver6 misleading. All the best.
@@davidgray3321Well his only mistake was highlighting bombers. But in terms of war material the USSR alone was out producing Germany in just about every category by late 42. The Brits were economically exhausted by '44 and were facing a real risk of economic collapse if the war didn't end in '45. The US was the master of the universe in '45 comprising 50% of global GDP.
Are you insinuating Hitler had him killed?
@@davidgray3321How many of the Brits merchant ships were built in the US?
@@duaneaikins4621 as the war progresses the Americans provided materials and equipment under lend lease this included fast built ships that did not have full weatherproofed steel finish, but to give you an idea re the numbers Britain had the largest navy in the world in 1940 , and on any day had up to 2000 merchant ships at sea. Britain also dropped most of the bombs that were dropped on Germany in the war, and on D day the British commonwealth army (that’s U.K. and Canadian) was slightly bigger than the American army. None of this in any respects reduces Americas vital contribution, don’t forget food to the U.K., and the fact that America had an essential role in supporting the Russians with thousands of trucks for instance. But the film industry is the enemy of facts in history I am afraid, and the films mislead the American public. Sometimes massively, eg suggesting that the first enigma machine was captured by the US in fact it was the Royal Navy who did so, see HMS Bulldog. Also American got lots of tech from the British, the Rolls Royce Merlin engine for example, and the Cavity Magnatron which means radar could be used in an aircraft or ship not merely in a stationary location, see the Tissard mission to MIT at the start of the war. Also the US navy used British anti submarine technology like “Hedgehog” all the best from the U.K.
Excellent commentary, very insightful 👍 Most profound statement: “ You can not win a World War without a Navy” Thank you for the post!
A preponderance of nuclear tipped ICBM's will prove you wrong.
Absolutely !!!
@@BasementEngineer The only useful purpose for “Nuclear-tipped ICBMs” is to intimidate your enemy from using his Nuclear-tipped ICBMs. The moment you or the enemy fires the first ICBM, you’ve both lost. ICBMs don’t win wars, at best they only prevent them.
@@citizen240 I happen to agree with you, provided rational and intelligent people are in charge of governments; that is certainly not the case now. Ask yourself this: If Germany had nuclear arms would the Nordstream pipeline been sabotaged> Same premise but 1939: Would France, Britain, USA defacto, have declared war on Germany? Would the Soviet Union prepared to invade western Europe?
I was had Dr. Citino at Eastern Michigan. He is still my favorite professor.
I'm jealous!
He seems like someone that would be great to talk to at office hours!
Awesome lecture and very happy someone posted it for the world to see. I'd love to take a class or 2 with Dr. Citino.
Same dude!
This is such a good video. This guy’s excitement for the subject matter wears off on the listener.
Wonderful Lecture. Thank you.
One of the better talks I've seen on either of the world wars. Robert Citino can certainly keep you entertained. It sounds like he is a great teacher.
'42/43 was also Midway/Guadalcanal, and Burma (monsoon stopped the invasion of India) in the Pacific, and there was Torch in conjunction w/ El Alamein and Stalingrad. High water marks everywhere.
Absolutely correct.Axis powers fortunes were dramatically reversed with those battles/campaigns. With increasing production the Allies and Soviets steamrolled their enemies.
Victor Olson Yeah Japan stood no chance at all against the US, even if midway never occurred the US could out produce them easily
😊actual it began with Japan deciding to pull out of Guadalcanal and the Allies crushing the AfricaCorp and ended with Italy out , Axis subs being victorious to being eliminated, and Bougainville being invested.
This was a very good lecture. Really enjoyed
I really enjoy his speaking style. Keeps you engaged the whole time! Good stuff!
Very insightful I believe for the most part. I've probably watched, read, or listened to hundreds of WW2 discussions & examinations that can be declared "in-depth" or for the more educated on the topic. Not the bullet points you'd get in any college class on the topic, but the ones that really go deep. And the more I've learned it's basically led me to draw this conclusion: There is no one, two, or even five reasons this war followed the course it ultimately did. There were a ton of myths, misconceptions, lies, legends, knee-jerk reactions, poor information, accidents, hopes, wishes, and gambles that formulated the mentalities of the men directing the course of this war. And that's not even getting into perhaps the biggest obstacle in any fight: the fog of war. There were so, so many factors and past experiences that had occurred over the years leading up the crucial moments of decisions in this struggle that had shaped the individuals who decided this epic saga that you can legitimately point to dozens of different reasons and still be correct. I guess what I'm saying is, there is no simple way to explain the course of this war. You can list 50 legitimate reasons Germany made the decisions they made and committed the actions they committed, 35 good reasons the Japanese & Italians were motivated & shaped by, and the same on down the line to every major player in this war. But the basic, inescapable certainty I arrive upon in nearly all of these examinations is that the reasons the mass destruction, casualties, and atrocities were committed by the guilty parties in question is that it was always in retaliation for an earlier offense. Everyone is retaliating for something that occurred at some point in time. I guess with a history as long, intricate, and intersected as the histories of Europe & Asia are, one can always find a reason to legitimize a heinous act.
Always retaliation for earlier offense? How about: Conflict and retaliation are a constant throughout history. Cultures compete with each other all the time. And may the best culture win! In our era, the winning culture has been liberal democracy. How could they know that would be the case? Maybe aggressive conquest and domination would rule the roost in the end. How could anyone know which would win in the end? As they say in football, "that is why they play the games". Liberal democracy won against authoritarian tyranny. This time. It ain't over! It is a battle that we will be fighting again and again as long as there are humans on the earth!
What exactly were the Nazis responding to when they killed Jews, homosexuals, the Roma, the disabled, and communists? Bad take, man.
Britton Thompson: I read in a history book that admitted oversimplification but nonetheless stated: "WWI was a war of old grudges and WWII was unfinished business." So yeah, it does relate to past transgressions (at least for WWI and WWII). However I will also add something an ex-Navy Seal once told me: "It's always about money (land=money). No country ever attacked another country just because they didn't like them."
This is what a miserable, Jew obsessed bore looks like.
kzhead.info/sun/YJqOl6ylnJuOrKc/bejne.html
Citino needs more of a web presence. He's a great lecturer from what I've seen. Anyone know if there's more of his presentations online?
Late, but there is one for each of his books on WW2
He had tons of lectures online. Tons of books.
As to web presence, I think he sees himself as an academic whose works are paid for by book sales, lectures, and professorship. He has a post. I'm glad he's not obsessed with himself.
Google your query maybe?? Just saying.
31:39 "I went in intending to argue with Hitler, but there was something hypnotic about that blue-eyed piercing stare, and I just went to pieces." That's waifuism. German Army High Command had made Hitler their waifu.
I suspect you are missing something that Citino is not; there *was* something about Hitler. I just finished the memoirs of Herman Balck- the most brilliant operational mind of the Wehrmacht, who participated in some really hard fighting in both wars, and though he did not go to pieces, he does say that there was something about Hitler that hypnotised you, something magnetic. Balck still got his way in all instances but one, but he does write that Hitler was something special. His boss and friend Guderiand also usually got his way, and it was well-known that Hitler respected the front officers more than the General Staff officers, so that might have played a role.
It's very simple: star power based on a record of success. They didn't have Rock stars, so they weren't used to it.
Really enjoyed this.
Dr. Citino is a treasure.
I have Dr. Citino´s book. Highly recommended.
which book?
Great presentation - thanks.
I couldn’t agree more. Recently I retired as well. Watching sometimes brilliant lectures on the two world wars is what I do.
Only one point I don't agree with. Germany and the SU, were not allies in the classical sense with common goals and armies fighting on one side. They merely signed a non-aggression pact, with accompanying economic and territorial deals. That doesn't make them "allies". The SU was therefore non-belligerent (as a result of this NA pact). The "new good relations" as shown in the Nazi newsreels at the time (and which still influence opinions today) was propaganda. Ideologically and politically, the two sides remained enemies.
Non-belligerent? You are so wrong. The SU delivered oil, wheat and other materials germany needed until the moment Operation Barbarossa started. And Poland wasn't mopped up by Germany alone, Stalin only waited some time so he wasn't seen as a direct "Ally" of Germany, since he knew that this would be simply dumb. Also, a non-belligerent doesn't attack Finland in the winter of 1940...
Ralph Bernhard Exactly correct Ralph: I just read the other guy missing the point entirely and simply regurgitating truisms about Nazi / Soviet trade deals.
Krauty McLederhosen Pfff, "technically speaking" maybe... but not practically... Sorry they only sided with Germany to crush Poland, the only reason the Allies didn't honored their pact with Poland then was because Churchill wanted to be up Stalins ass, so he wouldn't lose. Technically speaking, France and the UK would've had to declare war on the Sovjets too, but then again "technically speaking" is simply not always what really was the case... You just belive whatever you want to, I really don't have the time bickering about semantics, so have fun doing it, really, why care so much anyway? Thats over 70 years ago, and even though it should not all be forgotten, the Facts don't cahnge no matter what we say and argue...
***** "Of course after the war the secret provisions of the Russo-German Non-aggression Pact were discovered." Actually the secret provisions of the Russo-German Non-aggression Pact were "re-discovered. since it was already revealed to the USA by the German traitor Hans von Herwarth on the 24th August 1939,an entire week before the German invasion of Poland. Despite the grave implications, the USA did not inform Poland. It was therefore not the "big secret" our "history books" want to lead us to believe. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Herwarth
***** My interpretation is slightly different. Most likely, Roosevelt didn't know, because the information got "lost in the channels" (most likely). Bear in mind that Herwarth did not deliver his information personally. This kind of balls up is typical in the world of diplomacy, even today. My interpretation is that those in Washington who received it, doubted the source or legitimacy of the information ( a valid doubt, considering the intense animosity between the two ideologies), and feared political fall out in case it had been a carefully laid out Nazi trap. I'm not so sure if anybody "wanted" war, but by 1939 it seems likely that there were certainly many western leaders who considered war as an event worth "risking" (considering previous events in Europe, that would be an acceptable standpoint). In other words, one could say that western leaders were "willing to risk war" by 1939, and that peace at any cost was no longer an option. You are correct though. The Poles should have been informed, along with an assessment that the information delivered by von Herwarth might be a political conspiracy (a lie made up, designed to threaten/coerce the Polish government to make concessions in the ongoing talks over the corridor and Danzig). It should then have been left to the Polish government (and their excellent secret service) how best to proceed.
Insightful and thought provoking. As an amateur historian who started studying War Two in his teens, I knew about all this information. But that last point Dr. Citino makes... the death of one's caste... is one that I had not considered. Given that the Army... not the Wehrmacht as a whole, but the Army - Der Deutsche Heer... was one of the great social institutions in Germany from its foundation as a nation in 1870, it should have come as no surprise to me. But it did.
What is this bizarro-world distinction you point to between the Wehrmacht and das deutsche Heer? Are you serious? Are you sentient? Do you somehow imagine that there were, like, reasonable, chill, liberal-democrat German army units that the Nazi regime did not utterly control?! Here's a kindergarten thought experiment for you: how would history have been different if there were no Kingdom of Prussia? The revolutions of 1848? Either world war? Lenin getting sent in a sealed military train to steal the long-delayed revolution in Russia from the social-democratic Mensheviks...?
@@haeuptlingaberja4927 The social positions of officers in the Kaiserliches Heer, the Reichswehr, the Wehrmacht, and the Bundeswehr are very different creatures. In the Kaiserliches Heer, they were often of the nobility, the gentry, the junkers, or talented middle classes. There is that classic insult 'He may be an hauptmann, but he has a carpenter's face' implying that the hauptmann in question was promoted above his station and ability. The Reichswehr officer corps was a VERY exclusive club and anybody who didn't fit in was instantly made aware of it. It's like trying to teach at Oxford with only a vocational school degree. The Nazis tried to 'socialize' the officer corps by opening positions to a wider range of social classes, but the political requirements to do so undermined their efforts. Inept men were promoted because of their Party record, not their skill at their chosen profession. This led to the Army being primarily controlled by a very Prussian style officer class. And after about 1960, when the war officers started retiring, the Bundeswehr become something almost unrecognizable to a Fahnrich to got his commission in War One. THAT is what I mean.
I have misgivings about recommending a movie, but James Mason's performance in the 'Blue Max' really got me thinking about what your commenting on.
@@mikhailiagacesa3406 Well, Maximillian Schell's performance in 'Cross of Iron' bears on the discussion too.
@@carlhicksjr8401 Another one of my favorites.
The battle of Crete was really important for the fact that the Germans lost a lot of transport aircraft that was not available for the Russian invasion and to move troops and supplies forward allowing the Russians to have time to setup new lines of defence.
The Battle of Britain was huge. In June 1941 the entire Luftwaffe had fewer operational combat aircraft than the force thrown against Britain in July 1940. The loss of fuel, loss of aircraft and loss of experienced pilots hurt them deeply. And Britain still being in the war meant Germany under blockade, not being able to ship in war materials from overseas.
@@iansneddon2956it wasn't the losses in August and September 1940. The losses were big in May and June as well. But most importantly the production rate of Aircraft was very low until end of 1942. According to British author Len Deighton, the British made way more fighter planes during the battle of Britain than Germany and German War production was inefficient until Speer took over in 1942
@@Dilley_G45 The losses to both the RAF and Luftwaffe from fighting in France had a huge effect (including air combat around the Dunkirk evacuation). Which is why RAF fighter command was down to 650 operational aircraft in the beginning of July 1940. But investments in aircraft manufacturing before the war along with early moves towards a war economy gave Britain an advantage. Speer later congratulated himself for carrying out one of the greatest deregulations of an economy in history - made possible because Germany had maintained their dysfunctional heavily regulated centrally-planned economy on into the war. It wasn't just aircraft production. Britain had invested heavily in expanding pilot training programs. Part of a "reduced" RAF operational strength during the battle was a large number of experienced pilots who had been pulled back to serve as instructors training new pilots. In August the training programs were cut shorter - sending pilots into battle with less training. But Germany was doing the same. Overall, I think the British sent more inexperienced pilots into battle than the Luftwaffe did - but this was a matter of output as the RAF was deploying these pilots as part of an expanding air force while the Luftwaffe was bringing in the inexperienced pilots as replacements to partly offset a shrinking air force.
NO
Very helpful presentation! Enjoyable style.
Why arent there more lectures like this?
41:41 he asked a very good question. iv'e had read the book "the end" by ian kershaw and it was very luminary toward the question why the third reich was still in great power and why the wermacht fought so vehemently when the collapse was inevitable
Great speaker good energy , better content! Much appreciated
Just so you know sir, watched it at least twice in succession. Ever finish to a demand for encore? Thank you
Quite good introduction into the matter. I am german and very interested in this part of our history. Seems like we have read the same books almost. And there is still so much new insight coming up.
I really like Dr. Citino's style of lecture and I like to hear his videos while I do other stuff throughout the day. I am definitly going to buy and read (repeatedly) his books on this subject.
An excellent talk, I am going to have to see if I can find his book.
Citing is the best period. He puts you in mind of the soldiers!
I think everyone needs to give the OKW and logistics officers some respect for getting Germany so far in the war. Germany taking Poland was impressive. Germany taking France was a miracle. Germany getting so far against to Soviets was damn near impossible.
If only they fought a more righteous cause against Communism in general
Continuing till 1945 efficiently without collapsing is the father of miracles
@@taterater1052based on modern history if they had fought communism and liberation of Ukraine it would have made a difference. Note that 1/3 of Soviet army was Ukrainians
One note Crete was attacked by German paratroopers and they did a lot of the hard fighting, but Germany also landed regularly army once one of the port was captured and then went on to take all of Crete
And what did they really gain by wasting resources on Crete?
Was this lecture given during War College or Army Command and Staff school at Leavenworth?
I keep trying to understand the layout of the room they are in. Behind the speaker there seems to be a foyer leading into the room, the two doors behind the speaker are closed for the occasion of this lecture. Then there are two more doors, one on the left, one on the right, which are open presumably to allow traffic flow. There is no traffic though. That would probably be because the rear of the hall is where people are coming and going, which would be expected in any other lecture hall. So why is there a foyer in the front of the hall, behind the speaker? Where does it go? Can someone link me to a map of the building?
Finally someone with the Guts to say it thankyou Sir i really think you hit the nail on the head with your opinion of the officer class in Germany their Doomed sense of Opera genuinely appealed to them so it didn't need to be Hitler it could have been anyonelike you say excellently argued you have made a very valid point and its been most interesting listening to you
I loved reading the book by Dr. Citino. it is well written and cogent. Dr. Citino is a outstanding author of World War 2 history. I read his background and academic career one of which was at the University of North Texas in Denton, Texas. This is also my school where I earned my BBA degree.
He wasn't there Patton was.
Incredible presentation !
Very entertaining. Thank you.
Great video and lecture - thank you Dr. Citino. He's absolutely right about his recommendation on Rick Atkinson's 'Day of Battle' - it is the definitive book of the American/British (and Polish) campaign in Italy. I remembered it had what might be the most understated quote I ever heard in my life by an American infantry officer at either Anzio or Cassino writing to family back home 'Battles are fun to read about in books, but not nearly as much fun to actually fight in.' - Indeed...
I think that being a German soldier who was still in action after the tide had truly turned and the Russian meat grinder was steadily getting closer and closer must have been one of the most frightening situations imaginable. No hope of either victory or escape and even less of mercy.
And all of it preventable.
@@highjumpstudios2384 Yes, yes. We could go right back to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand.
@@andrewrobertson3894 Nah, not even that. Just all the warcrimes.
Excellent breakdown
Dear all, I am curious about these great german philospher generals RC mentions at 12:40 and wish to read more about them. But I cant quite hear the names he mentions. Does he say Clausewitz, Helmuth Von Moltke and Hans Von Seeckt or something else?
Use subtitles? Maybe someone made them?
loving his off the cuff responses to questions. his answers about Frederick the great having army commanders from the same Prussian families, just so across this. love how dismisses the plasticity of the german officers oaths...
An interesting and thought-provoking lecture. However, I can't help but mention that at 0:22:00 he misquotes Tennyson, as is often done, by saying "do or die"-since the poem itself says "do and die."
Love his analysis. The nature of the regime and the dictates of avoiding separate peace amongst allies required unconditional surrender as a policy.
Great lecture Thanks!
I think the arguments about the turning point of the war completely miss the point of the entire video...
Excellent presentation! Could not agree more about the vagaries regarding the turning point. I would like to suggest what I consider to be one (if not THE one) - the moment the German Army took a vow of allegiance to Hitler.
Mr. Citino: Your lectures regarding the German Military in WW2 are fantastic! Thank you to whoever has posted these. 24:15 "...the war was lost; yet Hitler had no trouble in finding enthusiastic commanders to continue fighting it... None of them were stupid as to what their fate was upon surrender. I know its easy to be an armchair QB but faced with financial destruction, mass rape and the occupation of hostile forces infinitum (yes, the western banking powers are still there, and YES, Germany is NOT a sovereign country still to this day) - why would you stop fighting? They were trying to save their communities and their culture. And on your question of when the war was "lost" - it was in October of 1941 when "rasputitsa" set in and the German army who depended on "mass movements" as you well put it, was lost. As I understand it, the Russian high command had evacuated Moscow, they thought it was over and there was only two division defending Moscow until the end of November. Guderian (if I understood the message back to Hitler correctly) surmised he'd be in Moscow by the middle of October - before the mud, literally, stopped the advance (as well as consumed extra, unaccounted for mass resources to get through - which had trouble getting to the forward units) I don't know fun to surmise. Thanks for posting.
great video, any chanced to get it in a higher resolution?
good video, very good
I think the fatalism of the German officer corps mentioned towards the very end of this lecture is the most salient point. They faced an existential crisis: the end of WW2 would also be the end of their era. Of course, there will be nothing for them, as a privileged class, afterward. In addition, they would also have been fearful about having to bear the consequence for swearing their allegiance to Hither. It was thanks to Hitler that many of them were able to stay as a member of the privileged German officer corps; after all, Rechswehr was greatly expanded into Wehrmacht under Hitler's watch and just about all of them were eager to kick away the distasteful Treaty of Versailles and resume their warlike business!
Good thing nothing like that happened in West Germany after WWII...
and yet german high command warning the british and french of what hitler planned to do with the Czechs and urged them to resist. they planned multiple cues and attempted multiple assassination attempts. not all mind but the idea they were all supporters of hitler or eager for war is false...
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Please pray tell what the Germans had planned for the Czechs??? Because it was none other than Czech president Hache that invited Germany to assist his country to oppose any Soviet invasion.
@@matthiuskoenig3378its a minority. Oster's men are not many
I would say that the turning point of WW2 was November 9th 1942 at 9:12 AM. I've given this question much thought these past few minutes and I can do no more without an atomic clock.
I am a WW 2 buff this Gentleman is so knowledgeable I would take his class in a minute. Much respect for his opinions.....
Everybody who needs to point out that hes a "history buff" doesn't know that much in my experience. Especially tru with my American bois xddd
You might want take a look at former Bundeswehr General Schultze-Rhonhof. There are videos of him out there about the beginning/time before ww2 started (mostly on diplomatic level). His views are controversial and there are some books he has written. Dunno if his things are avaiable in english though.
"Our Italians" Laughing out loud over here
Yes, but the British were "our Italians" in the Far East.
@@degrelleholt6314 are you fucking serious? Does the 14th Army ring any bells, dickhead? If not fuck off.
Dan D The Brits use to say of American Troops when they started arriving in England: "American Soldiers are "Over sexed, Over paid, and Over HERE!"
I can't imagine the British saying that. They have constantly incompetent leadership.
@@johnadams5489 The Yanks, however, forgot to add "over sure" of themselves, until they met the German Army and begged the Red Army to begin the Eastern offensive after they stopped in Poland. The allies found out that that was easier to bomb Germany from the air than face them on the ground and therefore waited until the Red Army destroyed 85% of German equipment and man power in early 1945. But it took Hollywood for the Yanks to say they "won" the war. The Red Army, however, had the real story, real battle-field films!
This was a fantastic lecture. World class.
Brilliant orator and researcher, very rare talent!
I think the war was over at the time that the Wehrmacht lost horrendous amounts of manpower and heavy equipment in Stalingrad, causing them to give up on the Caucasus oilfields. I'm curious to know how much longer the war would've taken to end Germany if they had to Oil to keep their war machine running at optimum levels. The Luftwaffe had a lot of high kill count fighter aces and some very technologically advanced well built planes that were grounded for pretty much half the war.
Indeed, Germany had the most advanced technology in many fields, for example Jet airplaines, electric Uboats. But these inventions came too late or had not enough energy , raw materials or qualified troops to operate in big numbers. Only after Stalingrad the production of war goods became more efficiently. Too late again. With no oil, top panzers, like the Tiger, could only be used as artillery until they had used up their limited amunition. The Jet airplanes could not start and most of them were destroyed in allied air raids.
Strange that no one compares the Euro war with the situation of Japan during the war. In the last years, 1944-45, did not the high command in Tokyo also deny their strategic situation and fight on, Bushido style, to the bitter end?
Harold Wagner Yes. Some of them wanted to keep going after the atomic bombings, it took the Emperor to finally end things and even then some desperate officers attempted a coup to stop the surrender. "Would it not be wondrous for this whole nation to be destroyed, like a beautiful flower?" - General Anami, Japanese War Minister
Harold Wagner Isn't that what you have the military for ? If politics fails, let the military do the job...and best of all : NEVER give up!? So how strange is it then to see this kind of decision making with dictator-style governances ? From Caesar to Napoleon, from Khadaffi to Hitler, from Ho Chi Min to Saddam ? It is very simple; if you give up , you as the dictator get jailed and lynched..so what alternative than to urge your soldiers and civilians to keep on fighting to postpone the inevitable ? All dictators are narcissistic. They can't imagine to declare peace and slip away quietly.
***** Some of those guys wanted to keep the territory they conquered in Eastern/Northern Europe, while the Allies (justifiably) wanted compensation and Germany rolled back to it's pre-war border.
29:05 It was Belshazzer, not Nebuchadnezzer who saw the writing on the wall. Belshazzer was the son of Nabonidus who I believe (not sure) was Nebuchadnezzer's son. Belshazzer was ruling in absence of his father who was away on a campaign.
Third time watching this and still I find it compelling viewing.
Don’t you love when people in the comments talk like they know more than everyone else. Somehow they know more than the historian in the video that’s studied this subject his whole life
Its not an impressive lecture. He spends a lot of time incredulous that German generals kept fighting in 1943 - what else were they supposed to do? The war looked to be lost for Britain in 1940, but its generals didn't give up. They kept fighting, so why wouldn't the German generals? The USA also knew some dark days, as did the Soviet Union, but they all kept fighting.
I don't think I would lump Model in with the others that he mentioned.
Has the person that uploaded this video used the dialup internet connection? The quality of this is so poor that it is impossible to see the details of the maps etc. I'm asking what is the reason uploading a video when it is not possible to see the details. It could have been audio only as well.
Unfortunate the sound quality was so bad. Also, quoting Halder (whose diary / memoir is questionable, at best) is not a great way to drive home points.
For me december 1941 was the turning point, as Soviet did not collape AND USA was now at war with Germany. If you can't force Soviet to surrender what will it be with US on your back too? It will be disaster... But I agree, it is not one point/indivdual battle etc.
+Peter Magro For me the Germans needed to defeat the British in the Battle of Britain in late 1940. Because they underestimated the RAF, they lost so many bombers and fighters. But they then decided to attack Russia without beating the British. Stupid.
Earth 2 Hitler always wanted to go east, if the British could ahve been made to make peace (on germanys terms off course) I'm sure Germany whould have made fast bpeace in 1940. Britain, North Afriac etc was just a side show.
Peter Magro North Africa was extremely important to the allies after Rommel was defeated by Montgomery, it gave access to the soft underbelly of Europe, up through Italy.
USA is irrelevant. USA is so big and everything, but it really did nothing for the war. Countries like Poland provided much more
I totally agree. After december 1941 the germans could not won the war. The Soviet Union has not collapsed and started to learn to fight and get masive casualties from the Germans in a war of attrition Germany could not win. The Americans were in the war against Germanym they had half of the World GDP against it with masive industrial production, OIL and food production to ensure the URSS and Britain could remain in the war for ever. Nothing the German could have done in 1942, 1943 and 1944 could had won them the war. It just might have made the war last longer. Thats it.
Citino pierces straight through the vast mythology surrounding Germany and the Wehrmacht and gets to the human stuff of the problem. He also does it quite engagingly.
He's a gatekeeper.
Does anybody have a link to download his books? I have 'The Wehrmacht's Last Stand: 1944-1945' in Epub, and it's amazing, but i really need to read the others
just write to him - he will find a way to enable you to read his books.
Amazon
Great video 😄