Germany And The Church: How Important Is The Christian Religion In Germany Today? | Meet The Germans
Christianity has played a central role in Germany for centuries. This week on Meet the Germans, Rachel digs into Germany's religious history, the differences between the Catholic and Protestant confessions and the presence of the church in public life.
Rachel moved from the UK to Germany in 2016. As a relative newcomer she casts a fresh eye over German clichés and shares her experiences of settling into German life. Every two weeks she explores a new topic - from unusual bans to meaty cuisine or haunted castles.
What else do you want to know about Germany and the church? Let us know in the comments.
Note: In an earlier version of the video we incorrectly said that the church tax is 8-9% of your salary. We have taken this out of the video. The church tax is in fact typically 8-9% of your income tax.
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Hi, I have to correct you. It's not 8-9% of the salary, it's 8-9% of the income tax you are paying! Very important difference ;-)
Yes, you're right of course, thanks for pointing that out!
Correct. But either way it is too much!^^
@@MrFunk47 Dann sollten wir mal alle unsere Politiker in den Allewertesten treten damit sie endlich die Aufgabe erfüllen die seit Anfang an im Grundgesetz steht (und dorthin aus der Verfassung der Weimarer Republik rein kopiert worden ist), nämlich die Vermögensfragen die 1806 mit der Auflösung des "Heiligen Römischen Reiches Deutscher Nation" endstanden sind zu regeln.
And income tax is either 0% for who are considered low earning workers or between 14 and 42% of of someones income. Church taxes are capped at a maximum of 4% for people with a yearly income above 265327€! Aka filthy rich people :D
I checked the numbers about 10 times but missed the wrong word 🤦♀️ Thank you!!
i really like it when Rachel speaks german.
Yeah me too
Haha thanks! Although it's a bit stressful when it's on camera 😅
@@RachelStewart04 To speak another language always can be a bit stressful when you are in public. Doesn't mean you are worse than usual. I think that you are on C2?
@@RachelStewart04 Please makes this into a proper KZhead channel and start uploading videos. I'll literally watch anything you put up!
@@RachelStewart04 That's very modest for you to say. My job requires me to (and I do kind of like it) to have a presence on youtube once and a while. I'm not even close to being anywere as fluent as you are and German is my mothers tongue... :D (I get you probably need a couple of takes for that, but hey - I can do so as well, even when the topic is somewhat time-crucial)... Anyways, I don't want to whine about my strange insecurity when it comes to standing before a camera (I used to work as a bartender, I'm not at all shy when it comes to talking to people in person), but to express some well deserved admiration. Also, your German is pretty much perfect. It has a slight, interesting ring to it, but I wouldn't even call that an accent.
As a British immigrant it was simple for me to register as being non-religious and so I never paid church tax. I personally absolutely love that Sunday is a free day. You get used to the supermarket being closed and you can enjoy traffic-free streets for cycling, walking, generally relaxing.
Careful, some cities in Catholic areas are known to just assume you're Catholic and you have to prove (!) you're not. Otherwise they want years of church tax from you.
@@ThePixel1983 I'm a muslim mexican, it was easy for me, but other spanish speaking people i''ve known have trouble even proving they're not catholic, in my city the lady even thought it was illegal to be non-religious in some countries in the western hemisphere.
@Efren Cruz no, I'm fine thanks.
Agree. It was also like that in the Philippines before. I think it was more relaxing on Sundays before than it is today.
I'm wondering! I have been living in south England many years. There Sundays the shops were closed too. Well it was not so thorley, but many were closed.
I am from the East and not religious. But I love the Sunday as a day of rest (from consuming ) and would not want it any other way. It’s a nice way to slow down at the end of the week.
During the GDR era, one could not consume any day at all during the week. There was nothing to consume.
you should look up thefuelproject on youtube, i think it would do you some good (sorry if that sounds rude)
That's the original purpose of Sunday. It is a day of rest from a week long work.
Man, in India Sunday is a holiday,not legally but observed by the large majority, though India is a hindu country.One of the many impact of the British.
i love the mensa serves fish filet on fridays!!!!
As far as I know the fact that stores are closed on Sundays is partly due to the churches but was also strongly enforced in the workers'/labor movement (Arbeiterbewegung) and through the labor unions to protect people's right to a day off.
And the thing is, who would rly use open sundays? First of all, you dont have more money to spend. Secondly, is there rly a need for shops to be open at sundays? I truly dont belive that there would be lines of ppl. infront of shops to buy tshirts and so on. But whatever, it wont come whatsoever.
Yep. I'd say that's mostly due to the unions, today. In the 50s and 60s, the unions campaigned for the five day / 40-hour work week, effectively creating the two-day weekend for most people. Before 2003, on Saturdays the shops were open for half of the day, except for the "long Saturdays". These were full shopping days, on the first Saturday of the month and in the weeks before Christmas, to allow people to spend their monthly pay-packet.
Oh my dear ignorants, check out the old testament staying "you shall rest on the seventh day". In 331 Roman emperor Konstantin declared sunday to be a work free day. Still doctors, psychiatrist confirm the positive impact of this day of rest. OK, americans might not know what to do on a work free day, other than go for Shopping, but we germans being highly efficient know what to do
@@medi-activedirect8308 👍👍👍
I was a teenager when PA voted to end the "blue laws" that had kept many stores closed on Sundays. In the run-up to the election, i was very impressed by a TV ad featuring a Mr. Kroger (yes...THAT Kroger) pleading with PA to retain their blue laws. He said it was the only way he could promise his employees with one predictable day off per week. He laid out certain advantages he saw for families and the broader society. As a Jr. in HS, i was convinced! But Pennsylvanians voted the other way.
In my country, which is about 80% Roman Catholic, we don't have church tax. Only donations. By the way, I love your videos, Rachel :)
Thank you! Which country are you writing from Rachel?
@@RachelStewart04 Philippines :)
In my country 129 million people identify as catholics and we dont have church tax. People give something voluntarily
@@rachelanneyadao4772 how is Christianity in the philippines? is the new generation taking it on or is it starting to die out?
@@johnholder3273 Christianity in my country is still strong and from what I see, many young people still practice it. But I also notice that the younger generation is not as religious as the older ones.
though the population of the former GDR/DDR now is mostly atheist, one should not underestimate the role of the church in the regime-change in 1989 and how peaceful it was, espacially in Leipzig
the church offered a space to rally people. Simply because people gathered there one should not overestimate the role the church played in the revolution itself. Reality is that people usally do not believe in a god in the former GDR territories. The statistics they gave in the video are pretty accurate for that reason. In fact there was a survey some years ago where they asked young people at leipzig trainstation "are you religious or atheist". Over 80% answered "neither, just normal". You would not get this answer if religion would be even a remotely tangible factor in daily life.
On paper, 72% people in Saxony are not affiliated. Is this true? I mean, people may not register as religious for avoiding church tax.
@@alekhossen3546 Yes, but still the church had some impact because the GDR granted some religious rights to the church through international law, so people could gather in the church. But right now, Christians are the minority in the east, there are a lot of villages with practically no Christians there or any other religion whatsoever
@@alekhossen3546 honestly I would say that the stats generally show a HIGHER religiosity than what people actually believe in. Atleast in North Germany. People say they are "religious" and might even be officially part of the church but aren't actually religious and believe in a god. They mostly "say" they are religious because they were raised this way and think it's the "right wa," without being religious at all.
@@alekhossen3546 it is true, despite the the tax factor. Which certainly plays a role but really isn't that important.
Lived in Germany (Herford, North Rhine-Westphalia) for almost four years and although it was a shock when we first arrived that no shops were open on Sundays. We quickly learned to adapt and now we are back home we wish Scotland would do the same. It ensures much needed family time. We wish we could move back.
Pray for me I'm very worried I have nothing to eat or drink My condition is very bad God bless you
@@fahadnazir3912 i will pray for you
@@fahadnazir3912 u have nothing to eat , but a smart phone and internet data access, work hard for earning dont ask ppl for money , sell ur phone or laptop and EAT for that money if ur truthfil in what u say
@@kxenia7852 Thanks So much God bless you
What about restaurants?
"I knew nothing about Martin Luther before arriving in Germany" - how? The church of England is based on Martin Luther. If you went to school in England you would have been taugt about him with Henry the eighth.
I remember learning plenty about Henry VIII in school, but nothing about Luther 🤷♀️
@@RachelStewart04 I agree with you Rachel, Martin Luther is only known as a church reformer in the UK, he is not generally taught as having any influence on Henry VIII in the English Reformation which was for his own ends.
I'm Brazilian and know about Martin Luther because of school
@@RachelStewart04 As I learned from "The Technical Difficulties": divorce, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, died. (Never checked this though)
UK children are not normally taught about Luther. They are taught that Henry split with the Vatican because the Pope wouldn't give him a divorce. Henry VIII did not approve of Luther anyway, and wrote a paper denouncing his ideas, for which he was given the title "Fidei Defensor", which appears on British coins to this day. Henry was not a Protestant, he died a Catholic, just not a *Roman* Catholic. Saying the Church of England is based on Luther is a gross over-simplification.
My son went to Germany at a young age to study. The Salesianum in Munich, run by the Catholic Church, looked after him very well.
That was surely much earlier than one month. Now? Forget it.
Good
hopefully not too well.
@@m4t3matix73 The Catholic institutions takes care of people very well all over the world, we are Catholics it is our calling. If you travel round the world, you will see the beauty and goodness of the Catholic Church. No institution in human history helps people, especially the poor, more than the Catholic church
@@m4t3matix73 LOL. No. Not "too well". But they gave him food, lodging, regular visits to a counsellor, access to sporting fields, language education if he needed it. They were good.
Glad that you're back!
Towards the "getting fired if you get divorced" if you are employed by the catholic church: the catholic church doesn't acknowledge divorce, hence you won't get fired if you get a divorce, however should you remarry (in Germany church and state marriage are 2 different matters) you will get the boot. (Source: went to a catholic boarding school run by a monk order and 2 of the worldly teachers were were married and got a divorce, both continued to work at the school for years until the former husband moved on and decided he wanted to start a new family upon which he was given the opportunity to leave on his own accord to avoid termination ~10 years ago)
Edit: His ex wife continued to work there until the school was eventually closed after the order had decided to dissolve itself due to an ongoing lack of new Patres and the majority of them reaching the end of their lifespans. A truly outdated concept but one that produced very impressive and fascinating characters
She purposely skewed facts to push a leftist ideology and smear the Church.
Hi, I'm a Christian from Indonesia. In the territory of Indonesia there is a province of North Sumatra precisely in the area of batak land. The batak people are christianized by a German named lyudwig nomensen. Many of the sacrifices he made in batak land until now there are about 5 million Christians from the batak race.
Great job...lots of love and respect for the entire team...❤🇩🇪
I am from India and I like your videos on Germany😊
Glad you like them!
Totally Very well compiled
0:46 Because in the Holy Roman Empire, your denomination was determined by the state you lived in, you can still see some of the pre-1806 borders in the religious map of Germany. In Franconia (northern Bavaria), the former duchies of Bayreuth and Ansbach, Coburg, or the city of Nuremberg are still mostly Protestant. Or in western Niedersachsen, you can still see the borders of the Bishoprics of Münster, Osnabrück, and Paderborn in this map.
I have great great grandparents who came from Anspach, Bavaria in 1849 and thought the timing was due to failed revolutions that year, now I'm wondering if it was also for religious reasons as they were Catholic. My ancestors are mainly German and I've found both Catholics and Lutherans plus one who was Reformed
Dragoner Ansbach Bayreuth. Singt mit Prinz Karl 😁
Indeed. Before German unification in the 19th century, those German states kept fighting each other (as in go to war), for expansion. So if part of a Catholic state was conquered by a Protestant state, those inhabitants were forced to convert. And vice versa. Religion has been abused as a moral justification for territorial expansion for as long as religion has existed.
I think the christian influence, historicly, is a part of "western" culture. Many constitutions have a religous backround and by time formed the society we live in today. Im from the "not so religous north" (sweden) but i think most here that don't go to church still want a christian marrige and funeral. And some influence of christianaty many take for granted today. Take as this for a pointer: What year is it when you read this?
This Year
12021 😉
But I would say nearly every Christian influence is Jewish origin. The Christians only brought us the Jewish influence imo. Some examples: the basic laws like you shouldn’t kill/be a thief etc are from Moses. Shops closed on sundays because of the Jewish story of how god created the world. Many religious public holidays are from the Old Testament (aka the Jewish bible)
@@Fabii2000 Judaism and Christianity split off long ago. If it was the Jewish Sabbath that was off, it would be Saturday. Plus, especially in the West, Christianity combined with local cultures, hence Christmas.
@@Windona yes but it doesn’t change my comment. Christianity is based on Judaism. And most of the “political influence” in the west is Jewish origin.
When I moved to Germany, I was very surprised at how much religion there is in public life and the influence of the church. I know that most Germans do not go to church, but there is still a certain acceptance of its power and place, especially in smaller towns and rural areas.
And it is a shadow of older times. The change and loss of influence comes in the 90s after unification. I remember the old times...
The church is in decline. Most people who pay church taxes do it more out of practicality...makes it easier to get a child care place, among other things.
@@swanpride if people lose faith they should maintain the culture. Christianity is the mother of the modern West and unfortunately, younger generations are like the spoiled son who's pissed off that his mother spanked him... lol
@@nightprowler6336 Stop spewing those falsehoods. Christianity is what kept us back for so long; it's not the mother of anything.
@@antred11 no way ,the only reading why west developed it's because of Christianity ,easy to talk now
I am a Christian and I am proud to be a Christian
I'm proud to be atheist
@@m.r4841 Ok No Problem 😊
Me too proud Christian.
Being an atheist is a good thing. I want my country atheist too.
@@deepakseth8419 😊 Beautiful Dream 😊
Your video are always good, but this one is like a step up, great work !
A very balanced video, showing how nuanced the theme can get. Well done! Oh, and what a funny touch that Pope doll in the end that was!
A complete stranger took us on impromptu tour of Cologne churches. One of my most memorable travel experiences. The Church of St Ursula and the story about her was fascinating, especially the ossuary.
Excellent video - you really provide a ton on info! Thanks so much!
Thanks! That’s why I talk a bit fast in this episode 😅
I’m from Denmark and I lived in Germany for several years. I was really surprised when I found out that my country is an officially Christian (Protestant/Lutheran) state because it has always felt secular to me (and our shops are open on Sundays!), whereas the area of North Rhine-Westphalia in which I lived definitely didn’t feel secular.
It seems that the more Protestant a place is in the past, the less Christian they are in the present.
@@gofish7388 What about Spain and Portugal?
@@sr3821 They are religious compared to other western european countries.
Hello how are you doing today hope you are doing well how is the weather over there you really look so nice on your profile 🌹🌹🌹
You are very beautiful woman with a beautiful smile, I wish you all the best this year, how is the weather over there now
Great to see you again Rachel, I’m trying to Learn German. Viele grüße aus England
Viel Erfolg!!
Learning German is so tough But it's amazing
I think the German word “Konfession” was used at 04.29min rather than denomination or religion. Good point made about the false friend “evangelisch.” You do a great job explaining these German aspects of life. I use the videos for staff development workshops at our university here (in Germany).
I also use these films for staff development at the university (helps them understand the intl students and their questions). In addition, it is great for use in teaching English to Germans because they then understand some aspects of German life through an outsider's observation.
Always informative and a pleasure to watch !🙋🏽♀️💝👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I always learn something from your posts. Thanks.
Hooray! :D
Thank you Rachel, this was great!
Wieder mal ein klasse Video von Ihr! Informativ, sachlich, gut.liebe Grüße an Alle.
Thanks so much :)
Thanks, very informative and interesting.
Hi Rachel! Glad to see you again. Cheers from México 🙂
Hello back to Mexico! ☺️
I love this work or yours. Attracting people to love other countries, cultures, views, particularities, is sowing peace.
Thanks for a very helpful and balanced view of religion (especially Christianity) in German society. I have spent extended periods as a researcher in various German Universities and have always found the role of religion in public life fascinating - of course in part that is because I am a theologian, but in part it is also because it is so different from many parts of the world where I have lived and worked. Thanks! Like others, I also like hearing Rachel speak German!
This series is better than anything I have seen from "öffentlicher Rundfunk" channels ever. You are the best. I would probably enjoy videos on pretty much any topic you would talk about.
Thanks that's very kind!!
Rachel's question to the Pastor about what would Germany lose without religion reminded me of an interesting theory I encountered in undergrad philosophy: It's that religion was a component of emotional appeal in morality (like sweetener to a cake) that governed individuals from within, while law was a cognitive component of appeal in authority (St. Thomas' ordinances of right reason) that governed from outside.
Very informative video! Thanks a lot :)
Hello how are you doing today hope you are doing well how is the weather over there you really look so nice on your profile 🌹🌹🌹
You are very beautiful woman with a beautiful smile, I wish you all the best this year, how is the weather over there now
Great video, Rachel and DW team! I’ve always had a hunch that not so many people here in Germany go to church anymore. Many of the holidays are religious and people love the many days off. Can’t wait for the next video. Take care!
Thanks for watching!
Sehr gut gemacht. Da waren ein paar Dinge drin, die ich schon vergessen hatte. Am meisten habe ich mich über die Übersetzung von "Grundgesetz" gefreut... ich übersetze es genau so, aber das ein native Speaker den Term ebenfalls so wählt, war fast ein Kompliment. Danke sehr. Nicely done. You mentioned some content I nearly forgot over the years. I was very pleased about the translation of "Grundgesetz"... I translate it the same, but having a native speaker using the same term is nearly a compliment. Thank you very much.
Danke! :)
Schön, dass Du wieder da bist!
Great content.
Thank you! Glad you enjoy it 😉
Very good presentation but why do you say I sawr instead of I saw. I notice many English people do likewise but not all.
This was a wonderful summary, and touched on aspects I didn't know about. A HUGE thank you for pointing out how flimsy the separation of Church and State here really is!
Thanks! Definitely lots to unpack in this topic 👍
Being Dutch I enjoy Rachel's videos as infomative and sometimes humorous. Im very impressed how effortless your German sounds, an exampke to all immigrants. But not knowing about Martin Luther prior to your arrival in Germany says more about the inward looking British education system than about you. Keep these videos coming, they are compulsary viewing for all people moving to Germany.
In England decades ago (1950s-60s) the Reformation was taught as part of 'Tudors and Stuarts'. Martin Luther and his nailing of his theses to the church door in Germany was a memorable event so we children remembered it, while also being taught that the Reformation in England was the result of Henry VIII wanting to divorce Catherine of Aragon, and that the Church of England under Henry kept most Catholic practices in English churches. But this did not mean that they continued. Except during the Catholic Mary I's reign (1553-58) they were gradually replaced under Edward VI and Elizabeth I by the Anglican practices and rites that we have to this day.
Thank you Harry! And yes there is plenty to criticize about the history taught in British schools 🤪
Thank you for your video. I really missed a little bit more information about the Free Churches
6:57 I'm from a developing country and I must say I've never seen Church money going to the less fortunate...and I'm Catholic.
Oh, there is money going "your way". After all: someone has to pay the priests to do their missionary work. ;)
I am from Brazil, the most populous Catholic country, and here the Church maintains many philanthropic hospitals (Santas Casas), does charity, maintains universities, welcomes homeless people, immigrants.Who keeps the Church here are the faithful people, not the State, but religious institutions do not pay tax
@@nathatos completely the same in my country
Hi Rachel, I would love an episode about German education as the school system there is a little sophisticated Thank you keep on the good work :)
No it's not sophisticated. Lol. Students leaving school as naive individuals.
Hi Marly, thanks for this! We have an episode on universities coming up soon and another one on the (pretty complicated) school system will follow later this year 🤓
@@RachelStewart04 Hi Rachel, since the school system is changing, can you make sure to mention Ganztagsschulen and update us as to whether the Hauptschule/Realschule/Gymnasium system will continue, or is the Gesamtschule gaining traction? Thanks!
Thank you for this video! I am watching this from Nepal.
What a great, informative program! Hooray for DW news!!
@Jay Linn Thank you! Would you still have a little Hooray left for DW euromaxx? 😉
@@dweuromaxx DW euromaxx? Even better! Hooray for DW euromaxx !!!
I personally really really enjoy closed supermarkets, etc. on sunday. Im an atheist, but this is one of my fav. parts about germany. It gives you a day to relax i wouldnt want to change it for anything :)
Look at it so, no one forces you to work on an Sunday. You just can stay at home and relax and you can go shopping 6 days in week. What many nowadays see as there grounded right, has its roots in Christian and Jewish religion: Worker have to have 1 day of rest, even the animals! "but the sevens day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. Exodus 20:10 Jews keep the Sabbath, which is Saturdays. Christians prefer the Sunday, because it is the resurrection day of Jesus Christ.
@@margahe9157I as a Christian oppose this strictly. Everybody should be able to open his store whenever he wants. I don’t know why Germans like to be captive and hate freedom...
@@margahe9157 yeah, thats what i meant xD
@@sebastianr1204 we dont hate freedom, we give freedom! see it this way: ok, yes, you shouldnt use powertools on sunday, but your neighbours also dont, so you have the FREEDOM to sit in your garden and its quiet. you have the freedom to go to a restaurant, to go on a hike, etc. its a Holiday once a week. Noone interupts you or wants something from you :) Its your one day of freedom from society once a week, the one day where everyone has time to make a barbeque and chill with friends, If you want, you can go to church (but noone sees the free sunday as a religous thing xD)
@@annawho2220 Nobody has a disadvantage of stores are opened on Sunday. Another example: Germany is in lockdown since November. There is no freedom. I don’t want a free Sunday if everything is closed and there is no freedom of doing anything. You’re not allowed to work. That sounds extreme to me
I think it would have been interesting to also point out that on certain catholic holidays (such as good friday) the state also enforces more bans (such as being not allowed to dance "Tanzverbot" or play loud music etc.) which is so very clearly not a division between state and church.
Ah yes, I mention this in my video on strange things that are banned in Germany 😋 kzhead.info/sun/dNmahquDbqqOlIU/bejne.html
Well, to be precise, the "Tanzverbot" doesn't only apply to catholic holidays, but also to the secular "Volkstrauertag" (which commemorates members of the armed forces of all nations and civilians who died in armed conflicts).
Well honestly the secularisation is pointed towards the fact, that churches have No controll over the state which they don't.
@Efren Cruz okay ?
lisa Oh, Your comment is wrong! Good Friday is as well a protestant holliday! The protestant church even considers it theological spoken as the highest religious holiday, even higher than Christmas. The ban of dancing etc. is meant as a reverence to the death of Jesus Christ!
Thank you for your super posts, Rachel. I grew up in Beverley, East Yorkshire in the 1950s and am the only Quaker living in Leipzig.
Thanks for you comment, John :). "The only Quaker in Leipzig" sounds like the title of a novel!
Hearing the church bells rung without order always tells me what separates England from Europe ! A few years ago we attended an open-air service at the invitation of the owner of our werienwhohnung. There was a large gathering, with a band and refreshments afterwards. Rare in England.
Hi Mr Fraser how are you hope you are doing well and I call you upon to stand with us dear. Glory be to God.
Whenever it comes to the subject of the church tax, I really enjoy the fact that I'm part of an independent christian denomination. People talk about the church having to stay out of politics, but it is worth noting that the flipside to this, that politics should stay out of religion, applies just as much.
Yes, I agree. The state should totally stay out of religion, i.e. churches should have to collect membership fees themselves; and not a single cent of government funding should go to any religious institutions.
@@antred11 Which is exactly how it is with independent churches. The closest I've seen to "government funding" are subsidies for summer camps and the like, which any organisation holding such an event could recieve, religious or not. And it's not even fees that are collected, everything is run on voluntary donations. And that's sufficient because the people who are members of such churches are actually invested in the whole matter, and not just assigned to it at infancy.
Ok, but where exactly is the advantage of being a member of an independent church compared to the traditional churches? If you are honest you have to admit that in these independent churches members usually are asked to give around 10% of their monthly income to the organization. Not to forget, 10% of their net income (after taxes). This is well above everything you pay as a church tax, which is between 7-9% of your gross income. Btw, it is important to mention that the two traditional churches are not funded by the state, but by their members. The state just offers its service to collect the payments (for which it gets a compensation payment). The non-traditional independent churches can't do this because they're simply too small for this service.
@@MrPinoCavallo The point is, tithing is completely voluntary. In some, there might be a social pressure to do so (in which case I'm the first to criticise them for it), but the churches I've been a member of have never expected or asked me to do so. It's something you do because you WANT to do it. Because it was your own choice to join in the first place. The people who are funding my church are those who genuinely support the work it is doing, and ONLY those. And as such, the church is highly accountable to it's members as to where and how that money is spent. I highly doubt the same can be said of either catholics or protestants. Pretty major advantage in my book, just from a financial accountability point of view. And it also forgoes the issue of people being part of the church in name only. If an independent church consisted of in-name-only-believers, it would simply cease to exist because the small-scale structure wouldn't support itself. And such a church SHOULD cease to exist, it's a waste of everyone's time. Which is exactly what we see in the major denominations, they are basically propped up by people who are at most nominally members. If the protestant and catholic churches were actually shrunk down to the people who were invested in the matter, they'd be a fraction of their current size, but would actually be of far better use to themselves and society at large.
@@michaelt.5672 Okay, but don't you think deciding to stay in the Catholic or a Protestant church might be also a form of voluntariness? I mean, everyone knows that leaving the church is a pretty easy step and hundreds of thousands of people do it year by year in Germany. I guess, the pressure of giving money is much higher within these informal organizations than in the traditional churches that use the anonymous infrastructure of the state. In an independent church, the pastor and his helpers might know who donates and how much he/she donates. This is not the case in those churches financed by church tax. As long as you don't live in a tiny village the priest/pastor doesn't even know if you are a church tax-paying member at all. Well, funding a small organization is always more transparent than funding a big one. This lies in the nature of things. However, looking at the many American mega-churches or the pentecostal communities, especially those in Latin America, where people stand in lines with their credit cards in order to pay the pastor, makes it hard to believe that money management is done in a responsible and transparent way.
Great subject. I am English and therefore have no views on Germanic religious matters. That said, for many people who come to religion as myself did, the church is very important. Look at the many ways everyday churches here serve their communities for one example which I suspect is also the case in Germany.
Well, you don't need church just to get that service and community feeling. Scandinavians are doing perfectly fine without any religion.
No not really. If you look for what the church is paying they barely do something for society. Most of the money goes to the priests and the paperwork. Some to child institutions, which makes sense for the church. The hospitals, schools and kindergartens are being paid almost 100% by the state. So even through Christians work there it is not something the church does. The church actually is a very bad employer if you look at the employee rights. In Germany also everyone pays for the church via taxes. If they want to or not.
@@strenghsGirl also often the church isn't even paying for the churches, that's paid by the city council and the state, so also by our taxes.
@@lukasbremicker8585 exactly. A lot of people do not know that
No these services are provided by the state for everybody.
I think the trouble is that the window between too little memorial culture (we forget) and too much (counterproductive, encouraging petulant revisionism) is not awfully wide. It's tricky to find the right balance, but it must be done. One of the essential tasks is emphasising responsibility without blaming people.
Rachel is back 😍👍🏻
Always informative! Dance!
@Minh Carter Thanks! Here we go 💃🕺😉
@@dweuromaxx Always check spelling before hitting send! I mean Danke! I love your channel! 😍
@@annabella7285 I present: Situational comedy in a 3-comment thread.
Brief note on religious study in school - in Bavaria you have the option of doing 'Ethik' (ethiics) instead of Religionskunde (religious studies) where you learn about all world religions as well as psychology and ethics.
That doesn't mean, that everything you hear in "Religionskunde" is limited to your own confession's teachings. Other religions are at least touched upon, at the very least the Abrahamitic ones.
That's true for all states in Germany I think. I'm from the Saxony, and here you're in the minority if you take Religion. At my school, about a third of all students take Evangelisch (often taken by atheists because it has a reputation for being easier), but we have so few Catholics that they couldn't even fill a single class for all the years combined (which was something they used to do).
Wonderfully insightful and it feels well balanced in its reporting. Thank you DW, I learned a few things here. Interestingly enough, although the US has a reputation as very Christian country, very few places are closed on Sundays.
Yes, it's interesting, isn't it? Germany is puritanical on its Sunday closing hours.. :) Thanks for watching!
As someone from a very Catholic Philippines, where everything was open on Sundays (except offices), I was surprised to find out when I got into Germany that almost all shops, including groceries, were closed on that day in Germany. Whew, so if you forgot to buy your weekend food on Saturday, it's instant Ramen and canned stuff for you on Sunday. Learned that lesson the hard way. Well, the convenience stores and doners were open but they are far into downtown and the food isn't much better than your stock at the apartment anyway. However, as one commenter here mentioned, Sunday closings is a good thing. Gives everyone a day of quiet and slowing things down. Great video!
Sometimes gas stations have some absolute basic food stuff, mostly candy bars and bigger ones maybe some milk but don´t think noddles, also costs easy 50% more.
When stating that the churches would run nurseries and hospitals, it is often overseen that these institutions are nonetheless publicly funded. It is not, that the churches would have to pay expenses. It is like putting someone in charge for a company who claims for him not being bound to general law, allowing him to do his own thing, claiming the company was his and insisting on others to pay for his service. Little known: All bishops are paid with tax-payer money (not church tax but general taxes). In total, from an economic point of view, nothing would be lost when churches would go out of business and their institution were ran by who pay for them anyway: The state.
Exactly. Thanks for pointing that out. And who wants to pratice his or her German, go read "Violettbuch Kirchenfinanzen". It is let's say eye opening
@both of you: That book ("Violettbuch Kirchenfinanzen") contains lots of factual errors is one-sided and tendentious against religion. In most cases the book assumes that church services should be for free and ignores financing models and state interest (for example co-funding "Kirchentage" hoping to make more profits from visitors than paid to the Church). Hospitals (/nurseries) for example are mainly funded for treating their patients, just as any other hospital. Frerk treated that money, as if it were for an indirect and hidden funding of the Churches. As if people really would think that service of beeing healed would provided for free from the Church only because it is managed by a Church... . Have you ever seen people going to their health insurance, claiming their money back for going into a Church managed hospital (with the argument 'That provided my treatment for free')? Beside that private hospitals want to generate profits, either raising the overall money needed or reducing the quality (or which i think is most probable both) to treat patients. Church managed hospitals don't have that problem, because they don't generate profits. Not allowing Churches to do that would increase the number of hospitals that had to make profits. Just search for "Violettbuch Kirchenfinanzen" and "Fehler", ignore advertising articles and go through the reviews listed there: Always fact-check data yourself and don't assume something is true because it seemed to be eye-opening (so don't believe me and fact-check!).
@@derwolf7810 it might take you by surprise but I do not know the book. What I know: Funding private events such as „Kirchentage“ neither create more income than costs for the public nor that church managed hospitals were not interested in making profit. The arguments used in your statement could easily also be used for justifying public funding of private events such as fairs or claiming governmental financing of any other enterprise. The churches have been enabled to socialise costs and privatise profit. This is the real „wonder“ they show us daily.
@@ThomasZadro I didn't expect you to know that book. I addressed my post also to you because of the hospital example. Funding private events such as "Kirchentage" does create more income, because for example that in Münster in 2018 made 90,000 people visit Münster, amongst whom most were hotel guests for 5 days, ate food and spent money in various other ways increasing the tax income by more than the ~5,000EUR co-funding. My argument not only could be used to justifying public funding of private events, that is the exact argument for many public events that the city of Münster supported and will support. If you want to plan such an event here, you are welcome and probably get funded if your concept can convince the authority in the townhall. Purely Church managed hospitals here in Germany don't make profits - as i said, just fact-check that. If a private investor is involved, then he want's to make profit, which was a big deal in 2009(?), when the "Sana-Kliniken" stock company made 1 Billion EUR profits and promised a nice growth to investors. It was openly discussed if hospitals should be able to make profits, because that was considered to be unethical by many. I don't know what you have in mind when stating "The churches have been enabled to socialise costs and privatise profit", so i can' say much about that in common.
@@derwolf7810 The churches are not obliged to public any numbers. They just take public money, claim to use it for a nursery or a hospital and that’s it. Any other organisation had to show their finances, in particular when running a hospital, so neither can you proof that they don’t make profit, nor I that they do - it is just more probable that it is a financial win for them as otherwise we would be asked to pay even more. Public funding for private events is per se a problem as it always means that someone decides who is getting money and who not. And in a city like Münster, denying such funding for the Kirchentag had been difficult, much more difficult than denying atheist advertisements on busses in the very same city for example... Anyhow, as a matter of fact, churches are getting taxpayer money for running their own business. In a secular society, this is simply not acceptable and outdated. They are neither qualified nor eligible for claiming any special rights; but this is exactly what they do.
0:56 The map literally explains why Gustavus Adolphus joined in the 30 Years' War
Church tax! I did NOT know that. That alone made it worth watching the video. Thanks.
Sehr interessant! :-)
Rachel! Omg Ur actually so influential to me learning German
Keep at it!! 💪
I have to say that there is something to be said for the church tax. My parents emigrated from Germany to the U.S. when I was five. They quickly found a Lutheran church where we lived. But they were perplexed that the pastor was constantly asking for money. Basically, the pastor had to be a fundraiser first. This goes for all churches in the U.S. Thinking about this, I wonder if that's one of the reasons that there are so many preachers here who are basically con men, existing only to raise money so they can be rich. They cloak it in fancy language ("Send me $100 and you will be saved" etc.), but they really are just fraudsters who want to live as millionaires. Lonely old folks watching T.V. keep sending them money. I detest this type of behavior and never saw it in Germany (I attended high school - Gymnasium - in Germany). Anyway -- I would much prefer to pay a church tax and be done with it.
The football club collects their own membership fees, without such theatre, so can the church.
Here in England, unless it is a "Church of England" church, all churches are classes as a charity organization, and like what you experienced in the US our Priest asks for money but not only that he HAS to publically announce how much money he gets donated and what it is going to be spent on. (Catholic church perspective)
That "con men" business may still be happening in the South, certainly not the NE which is mostly non-Christian if you're under 50.
You don't have a say in how it's spent though and most goes on funding the clergy who are civil servants . Personally as a practising Catholic in Germany I ghave a problem with that.
When you find a church in America that you like and you know that the spirit of God moves in it. And also you know that because of the separation of church and state that church Need donations to continue working. Church in America is completely self funded and it keeps the government out of it. Which is a good thing. When you understand that, it is worth it to help people by every giving what they want. And for a born again Christian it’s not hard to tell the frauds from the truth. There really isn’t as many con artists as you think. I feel that is a cynical attitude.
I come from East Europe and am either catholic or protestant. But I have almost constantly worked in Catholic run hospitals, alongside a lot of other people who are not Christian at all. There is not a problem if you get a divorce (anymore) and you can leave your church if you want. The only exception is when you're catholic and want to legally renounce your religion, I think then you would lose your job.
Legally renounce your religion? How is that a thing 😲
Hey Rachel, its really nice to see your videos how you break down factually about different aspects of life in Germany. I don't think Church tax is a good idea, especially if people are going to leave the Church because of an obligation to pay. If a religious institution which is supposed to provide primarily for the spiritual needs of it's people turns out to be a mere organization like any other then this is a likely outcome. There is should be a clear separation of Church and state in this matter.
Agree. Churches as religious institution should be donation funded. Church wellfare is a bit of a different thing, but they could get supported the same way as non-religious organizations.
I love your videos
While I was watching the video, I kept thinking about the Prussian Empire and the influence that had in Germany for example in the so called "Ordnung muss sein". I also thought about the power of Christianity and how impact in women, lets say the way of conceiving beauty, like the notion of "La parisienne" in France. As I far I'm concerned the german women I met, they semeed more uncomplicated and free of dictates opposed to the ones from another cultures. Would be possible videos about those topics?
German Women uncomplicated? Lol, nope
@@dirkhallmann8941 I think they are, but not necessary in a way most men like.
If you are interested in the matter look up "Trümmerfrauen", basically it was the German women that cleared the rubbel of the ruins after ww2 and rebuilt the country, they already mostly had to manage on their own for a couple of years during the war and afterwards many only got their husbands back up to 10 years after the war was over (if at all), of whom most were both physically and mentally damaged beyond repair. That in combination with our women having basically run the entire place on their own for almost a decade destroyed any reminiscents of the old "Bidermeier" family structure of the Kaiserreich, as many of those women weren't about to suddenly fall back into the background again once the remaining men returned after being completely independent and having cared for their kids and elderly and keeping most of them alive through literally hell on earth all on their own.
@@boahkeinbockmehrOh I didn't know that! I saw some pictures after the war in the newspaper "Die Zeit" and you can see that, those years were hard times, I guess that when you approach to the WWII somehow you remained with the big picture but not with the "details" of the whole story. After the suggestion, I'm going to watch "Das Wunder von Bern". Danke schön!
nice content :)
"man unterstützt die dritte Welt und so" ... nö, zumindestens nicht mit Kirchensteuer und co. Die geht 100% drauf fürs Pfarrhaus, Pfarrgehälter und investment-fonds zu finanzieren.
Ja das hat mich auch geärgert, eigentlich alle Organisationen der Kirche die etwas für die Allgemeinheit machen werden durch Spenden und Unterstützung durch den Staat finanziert. Die Kirchensteuer wird oft nicht einmal für die Kirchen ausgegeben (die ja immerhin oft historischen und kulturellen Wert haben), dass muss oft Stadt und Land bezahlen.
Das Geld wird schön zu Gold gemacht und untern Vatican gebunkert. 😡 570 Millionen alleine vom Staat 😳😳🤮
@@katjabaark3863 Dumme Person, das Geld wird verwendet, um den Priestern, Mönchen und Nonnen in Pfarrhäusern und Klöstern Gehälter zu zahlen. Auch der Vatikan ist die größte private Wohltätigkeitsorganisation der Welt (Ich komme aus Indien und wir konnten Ihre Großmutter nur wegen der kostenlosen Behandlung durch katholische Krankenhäuser retten. Dies erklärt auch, warum mein Deutsch schlecht ist.)
@@katjabaark3863 ist nichts für das was sie tun
Question: How long did it take to line up a shot of the dome in Cologne with no scaffolding in the shot?
Underrated comment
Well, it actually might have been way easier a couple of months ago due to the covid-19 restrictions, no?
Having spent a little time living in Germany, shops closed on Sunday is brilliant. Time for family and friends and time to wind down.
a day of rest!
Not for tourists
This is pretty interesting, esp. the church tax!
Love your profile picture :)
How did you do it? Do explain please My family have been into series of sufferings lately
Thanks, Rachel. It is good to become informed with this general overview of, essentially, Christianity in Germany. As a devout Christian, it is disappointing to see the devolvement of Christianity in the U.S. and in Great Britain and Europe. It is interesting how such things as the church membership tax and Sunday closings (something I wish we had more of here) are pretty much taken in stride whereas in the U.S. those would bring a furious response.
I think the reason Christianity is dying in Western Europe is because of lack of exposure to the intellectual side of Christianity. Many Saints like St Thomas Aquinas, St Agustin, etc.. had made very powerful Arguments for God's experience and Christianity. When you read their works, you would be shocked after seeing them refuting today's so called 'powerful Arguments' against Christianity. It's amazing but yet very disappointing how these great men answered the vast majority of questions and Arguments against Christianity but unfortunately, for some reason, people are ignorant about this and these questions and Arguments against Christianity make them leave Christianity.
@@mathewjose4753 Furthermore, the churches in Germany are pretty left-leaning, thus ideologically excluding more and more conservative people.
@@mathewjose4753 exactly. Add the broken family structure and the neo Marxist/liberal education system and you have a mess.
You didn't mention one of the most shocking facts: the catholic church does actually have their own judiciary system. Several clerics avoided huge trials by not having to be in front of a governmental court but a jury consisting of catholic clerics. I reckon one of the main reasons child abuse in the catholic church is still such a terrifyingly present topic
I second that. As a matter of fact church and state are not at all separated in germany.
and that does not influence the judiciary system of germany. and i don´t see any legitimate and constitutional reason why the state should even consider involving himself in canonic law
Das ist Quatsch. Die kirchliche Justiz ist nur für innerkirchliche Delikte zuständig. Ein pädophiler Priester wird vom Staat nicht anders behandelt als jeder andere Straftäter. Aber er würde eben trotzdem auch im Knast geweihter Priester bleiben. Hier kommt dann die Kirchliche Justiz ins Spiel, die ihn z.B. dann auch noch in den Laienstand versetzen kann. Das sind dann eben religiöse Zusatz-Strafen, die aber nicht andere Strafen des Staates ersetzen. That is nonsense. The ecclesiastical justice system is only responsible for offences within the church. A paedophile priest is treated no differently by the state than any other offender. But he would still remain an ordained priest in prison. This is where the ecclesiastical justice system comes into play, which can then, for example, also transfer him to lay status. These are additional religious punishments, but they do not replace other state punishments.
@@hape3862 that's actually not true. The "Kirchengerichte" are allowed to handle criminal matters, in some cases without having to consult or include public prosecuters
@@hape3862 and even if you're right (which according to what u researched you're not), the clerical judiciary does indeed impact the prosecution of child abusers in a very undemocratic way. Take the evaluation of child abused in the catholic church for example. Why do they have to evaluate it themselves? Why is this evaluation not implemented by legal representatives? Just imagine a fictional company which is connected to rape and sexual abuse of their employees. Would you have them evaluate it themselves? Wouldn't it be clear, that their result is showing there is no forms of sexual abuse? They would not at all be allowed to do it themselves, but a legal prosecuter would deal with it. The church does absolutely have a legal status which gives them something very close to immunity
I’m Guatemalan, and this is a huge shift considering I’m from a country where it’s majority Catholic. Thanks for the Informative Video!
My maternal grandfather was a Lutheran priest in Zinnowitz and Ansbach before retiring in Dinkelsbuhl.
Interesting, I never thought in Germany Christianity could be so strong and important, specially the Catholic Church. Thank you Rachel, very informative, concise and... I'll say... in your own way, so charecteristic! Forgive my English, but I love much more German - still laerning =) Could you tell something about pets, favorite instruments Germans love to play, some details about culture, art, etc... are always welcome. Greetings.
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll add them to my list! We do also cover a lot of extra aspects of German culture over on Instagram - @dw_meetthegermans :)
We western Germans and the Bavarians are almost exclusively catholic (and the protestants that live here are almost all immigrants/ refugees that came after Ww2), the northerners are almost exclusively protestant, as used to be the easterners though as mentioned in the video they are due to recent history mostly agnostic nowadays.
@@boahkeinbockmehr Some exceptions still exist. When the reformation began some rulers decided to turn protestant and the people under their banner joined their ruler. Thats why I, a bavarian, live in a town with mostly catholics(being catholic myself). However, when I drive just 10km to the next town thats almost the same size as mine they are mostly protestant. Its rare in Bavaria, but some of those little pockets of protestants exist even here.
@@boahkeinbockmehr wrong. In Franconia (northern Bavaria), the former duchies of Bayreuth and Ansbach, Coburg, or the city of Nuremberg are still mostly Protestant
@@boahkeinbockmehr "Almost exclusively" is wrong, it depends very much of the region and can differ from district to district. I live in the West of Germany and though more people here are Catholic, there are a lot of Protestants, too. It's more 60:40 or 70:30 here - that's not "almost exclusively".
I'd like to point out that in Germany, the Catholic and Protestant (Lutheran) church cooperate way more ("Ökumene") than in more catholic countries, in my experience.
It's interesting that it is very nearly a 50-50 split in terms of Catholic or Protestant here. Perhaps that has something to do with it?
I think Ökumene translates to ecumenical in English, by the way
@@RachelStewart04 Catholic and protestant are large minorities and churches are small for the numerical size on paper but still has a lot of empty seats.
Well thanks Rachel for bringing up that topic in so much detail. I would guess that even most germans would benefit from this clip.
Rachel, I heard earlier DW story on radio - yes. our local NPR affiliate WAMU used to air DW radio news in English the 2000s, but that particular story is 15 years old - that some churches in Germany and other parts of Europe such as the Netherlands, were going broke and selling their buildings, property, because of declining number of churchgoers. Some were even converted to mosques, which was of course the biggest controversy back then. I dunno how they solved their issues. But to be honest, there is a very famous brewery in Pittsburgh - I am from DC though - which is actually a former church. The beer and food are nice. :))
A LOT OF PEOPLE IN TAMIL NADU INDIA OWE THEIR EDUCATION TO GERMAN CHRISTIANS. THANKS
I think it's interesting that when my aunt started working for the Caritas (which is a Christian organisation) she had to sign something saying she could lose her job if she leaves the church ... she was never a part of any church in the first place.
I had to sign the same thing and when I asked why I got the explanation that it's okay if you don't belong to a church (or a non-Christian one) when you get the job but that it's a different thing if you leave the church while you work at a Christian institution. It's seen as actively turning your back on your employer.
@@RomeeRaven Ah, that makes sense
Was that church with the concerts in Spandau? It looks outside and inside very much like one I visited and saw a Christmas concert in 2019.
Hi Miss Stewart, You are really a brilliant woman about all things German! Well done! It is lovely to whatch your videos. smile :) May all living creatures be happy and free from suffering. regards Mr Michael Carmichael PS Dispite my name , I have been Buddhist for over 40 years . smile
0:34: Groß St. Martin. Most remarkable church in Cologne - after the Cathedral, of course.
I have lived and worked here in Germany for the last ten years and it is my permanent home. I was surprised a couple of years ago when I decided to opt out of the church tax (interestingly I don't remember opting-in) but I came under some pressure to reconsider, and it also cost 30 Euros to get the paperwork registered too. I enquired about claiming the tax back that I had paid not knowing it was voluntary but was quite clearly told I had no chance. Ive come to terms with not being able to shop on Sunday and not being able to work in my garden, but I do feel that the church does appear to have a disproportionate amount of power in our daily lives.
Compared to Poland their influence is pretty harmless. The Sunday rules are cultural at this point.
Really good episode. Do you have German traffic signals and parking protocols?
Thanks Tom! Do you mean an episode on German cars/roads? It is on the list, but I keep avoiding it because I hate driving 😆
@@RachelStewart04 - could be cars and roads inclusive of pedestrian ways, parking time card usage, the infamous stop by police for control purposes., even traffic signs that are not obvious. Those things may confuse visitors outside the EU and Americans especially. If you don’t like driving - then an episode on getting around Germany without driving - dealing with bus and train ticketing and protocols when riding etc. would be very helpful. So many topics - :-)
@@WTomMeier very true, so much to talk about! I'll bump it up the list :D
Very interesting! I worked as a Christian “missionary” (Teen Challenge) in Mainz and Wiesbaden in 1983-84. I’m reading a biography of Dietrich Bonhoeffer now that reveals much about Christian religion that lacks real substance. There’s a huge difference between “Christian” as a religious label and a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen 🙏
2:54 Josh Homme playing concerts in the church?
I love how in Germany the country celebrates Easter from Good Friday up to and including Easter Monday with shops closing so everyone can celebrate, i think Ascension Day is still a public holiday too.
This is a public holiday and people use it to go on vacation.
I see Rachel, I click. (Rachel - I love when you take on institutional explorations of German society but would you ever consider the underbelly of German society. I don't know what that entails or if your interested in exploring those subjects, or if your Producers/Network are geared toward that programming but honestly I feel you're such a down to earth but engaging host. And, I think your doing something unique and dare I say something historical for German-World relations. Cheers!:)
A good piece that doesn't pull its punches
Being from the US and now living in Germany it has been a very interesting contrast that I still do not have a fully clear opinion on. for example today is Karfreitag. In the US Good Friday is only special for the very religious and if you have a bank or government job, then you get the day off. but the average person is still working. I am used to Christian conservative America with a loud voice that pushes itself on others, mainly for its own benefit. I do not feel preached at here in Germany (although maybe I have just simply missed it due to the language). I should add that I was raised in a religious home but have since chosen to walk alone and think for myself, so to speak. I am very against these megachurches in the US but I am totally in awe and love with the history and architecture of the old churches here. I made a specific trip to Cologne just to see the Dom and I stood there and cried at its magnificence! If I could I would go to every little village and every big city to look at its old churches!! However, I am greatly partial to the Marktkirche here in Hannover with its pentagram LOL
Don't confuse the pentgramm with a sign for evil / the devil. It's very old religious symbol that was a sign for the goddess Venus in old greece. In christianity it represents afaik the five wounds of Jesus and was used as a sign against evil - which is why it's found on many medieval churches. Being used as a sign for satan is a very modern use / interpretation.
@@matthiaskalupner6041 Don't worry, I was not confused. But since I live in modern times I find it amusing to see ;)
Rachel also didn't mention that the German version of the famous Christian parable has Jesus turning the water into beer!
yes - including the Reinheitsgebot
Well, it might have had a similar color and some foam on top, but I don't think it actually was beer...
@@jhdix6731 its wine
We need more videos from Rachel.
In the US with no official religion we had Sunday closing laws for many year, if you look at alcohol selling rules and automobile selling (no cars can be sold on Sunday in most states), we still have a residue of Sunday closing laws in the US.