Comanche 260B
2021 ж. 25 Ақп.
53 469 Рет қаралды
Mark talks about the Comanche 260 line of airplanes. Edited and revised. Thanks to those of you who were kind enough to tell us where we were wrong in the original video.
Mark talks about the Comanche 260 line of airplanes. Edited and revised. Thanks to those of you who were kind enough to tell us where we were wrong in the original video.
great video. My friend has a 1966 Piper Commanche 260B. Great plane. He's been all over the USA in it. Flys great with 4 people. Can't wait to go up again.
Thanks for sharing
These are some of the best flying videos on KZhead. The perfect balance of just enough detail without going down the rabbit hole. I especially like how you take the airplane up for a pattern run afterwards. Keep them coming. I’d love to see an early Piper Apache without any modifications.
We might be able to do an Apache. There is one here at Placerville.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 With both 0-320's running well there was nothing really amiss with the Apache 150. It was stable and pleasant to operate. 'O' ring replacements were required from time to time in the hydraulics of the landing gear.
Stephen Gardner. Great review of the Comanche 260B, very nice airplane. I owned a 1964 Piper Twin Comanche another great design By Ted Smith from the Lockhaven, PA plant. This was a great aircraft too, very similar in performance 160 kts. with a fuel burn of 14-16 GPH. This model had a Lycoming IO-320 fuel Injected engines with constant speed propellers. Additionally, it had a Robertson STOL which helped the slow speed handling characteristics of the airplane by lowering Vmc from 90kts to 80kts. without affecting the cruise performance of the airplane. This was a great modification to this high speed laminar flow wing. A great cross country airplane.
The 260 I feel was the epitome of the Comanche series. The 400 was a beast and the 180 was underpowered. I had friends at Lee with literally all variants. Our mechanic owned a 260B and it was the perfect acft. If you didn't need all that fuel you could load the crap out it. And yes it was quick.
I owned a 260B for several years and loved ir ! Nothing bad to say about it ... many hours of enjoyment !
I repaired a Comanche 260B and majored the engine after a gear up landing. In the course of the repair I became good friends with the owner and ended up with flying privileges of the aircraft for fuel only. I annualed the airplane every year and all of the maintenance through the year. It was really a great flying airplane and we flew it all over the country including Oshkosh and Sun and Fun. Some really great times!
The gear extension handle is a lever not a pump. Underneath the floor cover you pulled up is an electric gearbox. If that gearbox fails there is a red disengagement tab to remove the gearbox from the circuit. By extending the emergency gear lever and rotating it forward the gear extension system aided by bungees will move the landing gear to the down and locked position. If you ever have to do this be extremely gentle and cautious while taxiing, the mechanical down lock was the gearbox and it is no longer in play. The Aircraft must be jacked to reset the gearbox. Don’t practice emergency gear extensions in flight. If you really want to see how it works get your mechanic to jack the plane and then its safe to run through the emergency checklist and see how it all functions. Happy flying.
Thank you for this information. It's always good to learn more about these birds as they are not my specialty.
Spot on John! Also, DO NOT use the center floor area just behind the telescopic emergency gear lever to store your stuff! That lever rotates aft and folds flat along the floor when the gear is retracted. The motor and gearbox hate it when you do place your Jepp chart binder there. Owned a 1963 Comanche 250 for 15 years and absolutely loved it.
And make sure the bungees are recent and not tired or the gear will not go down with a thump and you will be hoping it’s down.
Thanks so very much for sharing that! I’m a retired master aircraft mechanic and I have taught several Comanche owners over the years how to perform the emergency gear extension procedure on their aircraft! The bungee cords on the Comanche are to help with the emergency extension.
Yep
My dad had a Comanche 260b (N9055P) for about 30 years....I grew up in that airplane! Great vid..brought back a lot of memories looking at that panel. Wish the engine noise was louder :) He did several mods, it was a fast plane for what it was.
Way back in the 1970's there were many Pilot/Owners at my home field. And the "High-performance Singles" were very popular with those that owned their own business and flew for "Profit". Planes like the Comanche, Bonanza, Centurion or Bellanca were everywhere! So, I was able to "make friends" and get some stick time on all of these designs! It was an exciting time!
That was the heyday, cheap planes, cheap gas.
Good video. I have owned my 1966 260b since 1976 (46 years) and still love it. Your report is very accurate but I would like to make a couple of comments. 1) Approach speed should be 80/85 knots. 2) Your fuel caps are not original but aftermarket improved ones. 3) Comanches left the factory with 3 600x6 tyres but many owners (me included) fit a special nose wheel 500 tyre on the original 600 rim, which gives the same footprint with a reduced diameter , helping to avoid wheelbarrowing on landing and looks better. Comanches are well supported for spare, upgrades & improvements by "Webco" and I have never had a problem sourcing parts. They are superb aircraft and most owners have a high regard for them which is not found with most other types except perhaps for Bonanza's.
Thank you for this information.
Our 400 freighter version with no seats in it, when empty, would run out of back stick before the mains touched down and so the nose wheel would make first contact. We only got around it by SELECTING FLAPS UP at the flare………a beautiful flare was guaranteed. Double check it’s the flap selector though…….:-)) I agree the wing is a thing of beauty !!!
You do not have to remove the entire tail for the horizontal stab horn inspection. You only have to remove the horizontal stab which comes off in two pieces. Two bolts in each half then disconnect the trim control arm connection and slide the halves off(make sure you hold them when removing the last bolt because they may turn vertical quickly). Can be done in less than 15 minutes. Block the cables on the inside and its eight bolts to remove the horn. If your an A&P you can inspect it yourself and reinstall. Hertiage Aero will let you send it to them and they'll do the inspection or replace the piper horn with the Australian horn and that does away with the AD. Or you can just take the plane to them and they'll do the regular inspection for about 2500. Installing the aussie horn is a bit more. As said before the handle on the floor is an assist handle for extending the gear don't put anything on the floor behind it as it lays flat on the floor with the gear up. It'll smash a foot, don't ask me how I know.
Just Outstanding!! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I never wanted a Comanche until I watched this . Excellent videos !
A Comanche is the biggest bang for the buck that you can buy to go fast and carry four people, but you have to make sure trhe big AD's are all done. Gear horn, Gear, bungees etc.
Very informative. Thanks for the great video
Glad you liked it, Vincent!
All my Comanche time was in twin Comanche's, but they are wonderful planes... almost as good as a Mooney! Pilot's either love, or hate Mooney's. They are either 1's or 10's... no "5's" among Mooney pilots. They always reminded me of 356 or early 911 Porsche's. The first hour you love them, and the secodn hour you fight the heavy controls and hate them. By the third hour you've figured it out and for forever more.... Give me a Super 21 and I'll be a happy pilot for the remainder of my flying career. Back in the early 70s, I had a student who bought a Ranger, right after he soloed. I gave him all his future instruction for free, and he gave me a set of keys to the plane. I guess you know who came out best in that arrangement. I subscribed to your channel and I'll watch other videos i the days ahead. Carl
I like Mooneys too but if they did not exist and I had to go fast for less, I'd have a 260 Comanche.
This was my favorite plane as a kid
They are great.
How about a Timm N2T1 aircraft It was a WW2 Navy trainer from Van Nuys ,Ca in 1943 It had a 7 cylinder Continental radial engine open cockpit solo from the front seat made of wood My dad had one for 20 years It was based at my dad's airport The Flying M Ranch Germansville , Pa
This is what I’ve been waiting for you to do when you get aircraft to sell and this Demo will make your reviews to be better than before Mark
It's hard to fly other peoples planes a lot for liability, but when I can I will.
Love my 61 250, last year of manual flaps, all other corrections already noted. Love your reviews Starting in 61, 90 gallons came on the 250s, mine has four gauges in the panel.
Great informative video
Glad it was helpful!
I fly the 260b over here in Western Australia it’s a great way to get around our big state and to the outback. Awesome ride!
Perfect, fast over long distances is the natural habitat of this beast. Western Australia is perfect for it. Dry too.
That was a great video. Very informative. I always wanted to get a couple hours in a Commanche or Twin Commanche, but never got around to it.
Glad you enjoyed it!
A&PIA and 260B owner here. Its important to make sure the boot on the gear extension handle is properly attached as it could bunch up and cause the gear breaker to trip at the last bit of travel up. While in flight with the gear up try to stick your fingers around the handle. You will find that it will be very tight to the carpet. Great review on the 260B! I absolutely love mine.
Good tip on the gear transition handle movement arc. Bit like a manual geared Mooney M20. The gear handle has to have a clear channel, but in that case, the "motor" is the human.
Good thought! We have a 260b and I never thought of that!
Excellent video. I love Mooneys; owned a M20K (turbo) and sold it when I stopped traveling for work so much. Starting to think about another traveling plane and the Comanche looks really attractive! Appreciate the information you provided.
Thank you.
Great review.!!👌🏼
Thanks.
I flew a Comanche for the first time last week and had a fun time with it. It was obviously designed for speed rather than lift and stability so it flies a little squirrely. I didn't try any stalls and wonder what that experience would be like. The landing gear is short; when landing I did float quite a way down the runway on ground effect. Getting in the single Comanche door and sliding across was a little awkward but getting out was much worse -- I crawled out onto the wing on my hands & knees.
The Comanche is such a beautiful airplane
You should also add that the Comanche came completely zinc chromated inside & are not prone to corrosion like most planes if the zinc chromate is not damaged during the stripping & painting they gone threw over the years.
That insert shot on landing in the beginning looked a lot like a Mooney to me haha
You had me worried! I had to check to be sure, but you can see the N number on the panel, N8874P. If you run that in the FAA database, you'll see it is a Piper registration. So far, the only misfire was with the Navion video, where a short clip from another aircraft snuck in. - Don the Camera Guy.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 The *exterior shot looked like a Mooney to me...but I was sitting pretty far away on my couch...
Comanches are awesome, love my 250. I'll not nitpick the whole video, I'll make one small correction and one addition. The 600x6 nose wheel is on the TC from the factory, the STC you referred to allows the installation of a smaller nose wheel. Prior to the 260, the nose gear door only covered the gear and not the wheel/tire so putting a small tire on is a drag penalty since it leaves more room for air to enter the wheel well. 1961 was a big year for the comanche, the aux tanks bringing total fuel to 90 gallons became an option for the first time on the 250 (and not available on the 180), the radios moved to the center stack configuration, and the left seat toe brakes were added.
Thank you for the clarification.
Super cool Cherokee I’ve been up in one of those before only The one I flew in was a four seater your plane is in beautiful shape or it’s a chair looks great interior is nice and clean it really looks good thanks for the video I love airplanes 👍🏼👍🏼✈️✈️❤️
Very cool
I love this...I will call you if you have not sold it yet!
Thank you for the video. Currently looking at a 1968 260B for sale. This helps.
Thank you
Comanche 260s were the high point always wanted one.
They are great planes.
Good review.
Thank you.
Mark you truly have a wealth of knowledge , your attention for statistics is fantastic . I guess the wing is laminar flow but did they get it a bit better than the average P - 51 . THANKS
Hi Mark! You are welcome. We'll keep 'em coming.
I love the Comanche 260 model
Excellent video we had a 180 for over 20 years. I always thought it’s wings were just like a scaled down p51.
Thanks for watching!
13:44. Great presentation thanks. I love seeing Comanches on YT however, as others have said please do NOT pump the Comanche gear handle. It is not hydraulic ;-). Also, the 180 is not under powered per se. It has less hp but it is lighter and more efficient than its bigger brothers and it performs as well as if not better than an Arrow on 20 fewer horses. It is a lovely flying, great performing and very underrated aircraft.
Thanks for the info!
Flying the 400 was like sitting at a booth table at a coffee shop - just so solid and comfy. psssst at 3:15 the inset is some kind of Mooney - not this bird.
Early days and early editing, sorry.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Hey, no worries mate. That was the first real flaw I ever saw in your videos. But I was disappointment about the insurance in the Commander. Is it still around?
My favorite plane.......getting old now, like me.....but some good value here.
Me too.
The 1965 Comanche 260 only has 4 seats, with the same window and cargo bay configuration as the 250. The 6 seat configuration with three side windows on each side start from the 260B onwards. If you are looking to buy a Comanche, the landing gear AD is due every 10 years and/or 1000hrs, and can be costly if the gear had not been properly lubricated through the years.
Also weren't there a few "250"s that were injected too?
@@skywagonuniversity5023 I am not too sure if there was an injected 250. I do know that in 1965 that both carbureted and injected 260’s where offered. I have an injected model.
Its been a few years since I flew a 260b, but I think the emergency gear extension is not a pump but actually physically moves the gear as the gear is electrically driven not hydraulically ; that is why the handle moves with the gear in normal use also. Any way great summary of a great plane.
Thanks. Yes, generic use of the word pump. It is electric and the handle moves with the gear through a single arc,
The gear extension handle is definitely not a pump . After you disconnect the motor from the mechanical gear that extends the gear you extend the gear you use the handle to extend the gear.
Love those Comanche
Great old planes.
A fantastic Bird.
Thank you.
Camanche's are my favorite.
Especially the 260.
Best of that era, the Grumman Tiger. Any chance of a walk round/review of the bonding?
I would if I had one. Purple glue etc. Maybe in the future.
Remenber the fuel cap center shaft O ring also get worm out
how you turn that comanche into a Moony? during landing
I would love to see a video comparing the 6 seat comanche to the 6 seat saratoga.
Those are very different planes. the Comanche is a four seater with two extra seats crammed in the baggage area while the Saratoga is a School-bus with wings. If we have them here, we will do it.
Love the videos! Small correction...the large nose wheel was original...then folks adapted the smaller nose wheel to reduce the wheelbarrow tendency. That said, if flown at the correct approach speed (slower than most people want to fly) the large nose wheel is no problem and offers much better soft-field performance due to it's larger size. The Comanche is a great grass field airplane.
Doug, Thank you for the clarification. They must be like Mooneys, people land them too fast and then blame the plane. I thought there was something about the nosewheels on these excellent planes.
The view of the aircraft at touch down on landing, appears to be a Mooney.
You are right. it is. Sorry. Too much footage.
260B the best of the Comanche types.
Yes, For Sure.
The round extensions on the tips of the stabilator (yellow) are added to prevent tail flutter. See tail flutter video on KZhead It's scarry. Before this the max speed was reduced from about 223 MPH to 203 MPH. This brings it back to 223m
Thank you for this info. I was wondering about those. I'm not a Comanche expert although I like them.
Thank you for answering the question I was about to ask........
Why was the landing "picture in picture" of a Mooney landing, haha. Threw me for a bit, had to replay it several times to make sure I saw what I thought! My family has a Comanche 250. Such a sexy plane in my opinion. Unfortunately my father is in his 90's now and we are selling it. If you don't mind a shameless plug, I have a walk around video of our Comanche 250 on my channel if anyone is in the market. We need to sell quickly so if you are serious you could get a great deal!
Thanks for watching. Good luck with the sale. Put your link on here if you want.
Thank you! I appreciate that. kzhead.info/sun/lq-zcb2vmaWLlXA/bejne.html
The wrong plane was the result of an early editing error, where I kept all the footage in one place and selected the wrong file. Now, each plane has a separate folder to prevent that from happening. Live and learn. - Don the Camera Guy
@@skywagonuniversity5023 No worries, made it kinda fun to "investigate" and rewatch in slow-mo! Thanks for the great aviation content!
You should review the Cessna 177RG
We are going to do a video soon on a 177 Fixed gear and RG side by side.
Watching this makes me want to go to the nearest flight school.
Do it.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 im 41 years old. Too old for general aviation
@@rodelc644 But you are 15 years younger than me.
As long as you can pass a medical, you're not too old. You might not make it to the airlines, but you're certainly not precluded from learning to fly!
I noticed your listing doesn't show the 3rd row of seats. Can you post a pic showing the back row of seats? Does anyone have any info on how the back row is for seating, is it just kid seating? What does the back row do to CG limits?
All the Three window Comanche 260's and a few of the 250's has six seats. The last two seats use ALL the baggage area. They are accessed through the baggage door or kids can climb over. They are not like in a 206 or a 210 or Beech 36 though. Most owners do not use them.
Yes, and a total of 237 pounds.
They actually stopped making the Comanche because it was very expensive to make. Not the factory got flooded. Cherokees have about 30% less parts!
but the flooding is white tipped them over the edge or they probably would’ve gone a bit longer with the production.
Would like to own each plane you review, thank kyou
So would I.
👍👍👍👍👍
I fly out of placerville. Kinda worried about flying a drone next to an active runway?
Hi Steve. I've got the commercial drone pilot license and permission from the airport. I set the drone to 5 degrees off centerline so I can't get to the runway, and I'm high enough that I wouldn't hit any taxiing aircraft, which I'm also watching out for. Safety is a top priority. Just like flying a real plane, I make it a point not to run into others. - Don the Camera Guy
@@skywagonuniversity5023 That's awesome. Thanks for the reply
No do not pump the gear emergency,,you first trip the lacht between the motor and the transmission the gear will free fold then you continue with the lever pushing forward until it will lock
Wish they weren't 100k though. Some day I'll find one
Soon, they won't be $100K. They will be more.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Shhh don't say that.. Well, like most hobbies people will get priced out until the rich dead guys die.. It'll come back down eventually
First PA-24 Comanche; 180 horse power introduced 1958.
Their is really no comparison. The 6 seat Comanches had cushions on the floor of the baggage compartment and back rest. the load limit at that area is 250 pounds and the seat cushions were 17 pounds as I remember. With 6 people you could not carry much fuel. I carried 6 people 2 times in 45 years of ownership, on very short flights.
@@tomburke1I know the 180 Comanche did not have the payload or speed of the 250 and 260 Comanche. I was just stating that early models could be bought with a 180 Lycoming engine. I flew one way back in 1962.
Hey! That's a Mooney that you are actually flying not a Comanche!
One shot was accidentally a Mooney. We are not professionals.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 I feel so betrayed! Haha keep up the good work!
@@StangDGB Ha ha ha. keen eye. Thanks.
Lands so much like a Mooney it turns into one 😛
Ah yes, some editing slips. Well spotted.
Comanche wing can be very mustang lookalike, but definitely NOT a miniature Mustang wing. Not the same proportion, not the same planform and not the same airfoil...
Thanks. I heard they were the same.
Where is this filmed?
North Eastern California. Placerville Airport. KPVF. Between Tahoe and Sacramento at 2575 feet.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Thank you! I found it in Google Earth. I used to fly out of a similarly set airport, 4N1 (Greenwood Lake, NJ), when I was taking flight lessons. I flew a 152 most of the time for those. I would love to go back and finish these.
Small mistake. To get 160 knots you will need to run at 75%. That’s easily 14 gallons per hour, not 11 GPH. Good video though. Keep them coming.
OK, Thank you. I think a good rule of thumb is about 2 to 2.5 gallons per hour per cylinder, so 10 on a 360 and 15 max on a 540 and less if you are nice to it, but that is a good flight plan number so you never run out of fuel.
I routinely make a 159nm trip in my 260B and it takes me right at 1.0. In cruise I typically run 2300/25.0", LOP 11.7gph.
@@rocketbob Thank you for this info. Injected 260 right, not the carb'ed 250?
@@skywagonuniversity5023 correct, injected.
@@rocketbob OK, Yes, makes for accurate LOP operation. Thanks.
This one won’t last long to get sold like the Cessna 170
She is in pre-purchase right now.
Comanche is a wonderful airplane but ones lost its wings in flight
True, But a Chevy Truck crashed once too, and a Ford and a Mercedes, and a Tesla etc etc and we all still drive them. One badly maintained, weakened and corroded Comanche cannot be the signal that they all will do it. It pays to look after these great older planes.
Comanche wing spars are one of the strongest out there for single pistons, practically bulletproof. Must’ve hit something at high speed or improperly maintained for something like that to occur.
What? That does it! It's a Cirrus for me!
One of my instructors got caught in a wingtip vortex from an airliner and it rolled them so fast it broke the spar. He was able to land it safely.
@@Cwra1smith hiya...check out the accident rate. Check out the SOP for stall/spin. And...check out the 💰💰💰
Stabilator -- so called because the surface functions as both the horizontal stabilizer and as the elevator. All t Cherokee and derivatives have it -- but then, so do almost all fighter aircraft today!
It's the MODERN way to control pitch (wink wink).
Also my old Titan Tornado microlight :o
That was the US's secret to breaking the sound barrier.
@@gorgly123 Except it was a British secret shared with the U. S. ;)
I like'em,great rental ac for xc flt on weekends.checkout on ac should include all systems,stalls can be abrupt. I would stay away from twi commanchs on initial mult students. I used J model 310s; just fine