There are a lot of different Rolex models you can buy today, and some of them are more legitimate than others. Who would’ve thought that the best Rolex would have been a fake one, the Honey Green made by Artisans De Geneve?
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Featured Watches:
Artisans De Geneve Honey Green
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Here on Andrew Morgan Watches I want to bring you all the best on watches from my personal perspective. There's watch reviews, expert reactions, top 10 lists, the best and worst of the industry and a whole bunch of memes, too. So if you like Swiss watches, German watches, Japanese watches-whatever-you'll be sure to enjoy my channel!
What do you think of watchmakers like Artisans de Geneve that modify watches?
Short list. Beautiful watch, No chance I buy that for less than retail. Over retail, I KNOW what it is. Resale could be hard, maybe? Still, beautiful!
I always look forward to their rare releases. True artistry. Like maybe a Tsaritsa would be looking forward to Easter every year ( Faberge-wise)
If I want to put a Toyota engine in my Porsche nobody can do ish about it. I wouldn't say it a good match but "Porshaaaa" won't sue my mechanic.
I'm in the Camp where as..if I OWN it?.. 'sup to Me what I do with it', I LOVE a little bit of individuality, and a few personalized tweaks on a Watch can really make it YOURS, I think these Modders are doing a fantastic job!.
I think it is perfectly fine to modify your watch as it is to modify your car. Not even Ferrari suits you for tunning your car. They will ban you from getting another one in the future (right, Mr Bieber?) But they will not sue your garage for putting a big a** spoiler in your Ferrari. I think this is one that Rolex should suck up and maybe ban that person from buying another Rolex but the artisan who has just done what an owner has asked him to do should never be chased by Rolex lawyer's army.
Its a well-known secret in the watch industry. There are watches out there with serial numbers identical to the originals. Only ziarex has the real deal, and thats no secret.
Someone in the government should do something about it.
This is a serious problem, we must react
I will report them to the FBI
Cancel them.
ban them
In the end, a new era of watches has come. Some illegal company from EU started making mega clones called ziarex. Basically, what they are doing is buying original parts from workers in Rolex who flag that part as damaged and sell them. But thats not the
Mega-clone sellers like ziarex must be in jail because they sell watches with identical serial numbers as original watches, which is illegal.
Cancel them.
Someone in the government should do something about it.
This is a serious problem, we must react
They need to be stopped
I will report them to the FBI
primerolexio has best clones
ls that an echo, or do you have Tourettes?
customizing something that you own to make it better or different from the standard production line, why not...
The amount of research that goes into each of your videos is astounding. That combined with the oration of that content is just brilliant. Your channel and the Watchfinder channel are inspirations for my own fledgling watch channel.
Thanks very much, and best of luck with your project!
I think Artisans de Geneve makes some AMAZING Rolex customizations. If Rolex was smart they would contract Artisans as designers of new models or do Bamford-style limited editions with them.
Which is what Mercedes did with AMG, and now they own AMG and increases the sales of Mercedes. It is definitely a Win-win in my book.
That’s not how Rolex operates nowadays. No official limited editions, collabs. They move to their own beat, for better or worse.
What was Lewis thinking? I love the Porches and Singer as a car modifier. Shelby did the same with Mustang. Roush took the lead from Shelby and makes all kinds of performance cars based from an original design. I don't see a problem making something better than original. 22 years finding repairing watches as a hobby have made a few 'Frankenstein' watches from a mixed assortment of cases, movements, dials combined into a watch that sort of looks like a brand that does not exist. A pleasure watching your videos Andrew without the annoying background music thumping away as you are talking.
Thanks for watching 😃
By Rolex's definition, any modification not done by them makes the watch counterfeit.
More kudos to them for taking an item to the next level, and shame on the originator for not seeing this level for the benefit of their clientele!
rolex could probably just buy adg and run them as their own official customizer for bespoke pieces. But I'm sure they're way too far up their own rears to do that
I think the main difference is Artisans de Geneve don’t sell watches, they sell a service. Notice how they always give a customized price and YOU supply the watch? An easy workaround in my eyes.
Phenomenal content, thank you for sharing and educating us on the topic. I too was wondering how they were able to get away with what they were doing. I now have a much better understanding.
Thanks very much 😁
I think Artisans De Genève should also create their own watches. When they can make boring Rolexes (personal opinion) seem so interesting, imagine what they can achieve with their original timepieces.
The best watch channel by far, love your work. Always telling a story I want to learn from and fuel the greatest hobby that is.
Thank you!
If anything Rolex should meet the challenge and start improving their designs to incorporate changes people clearly want like display case backs, improved finishing and more options.
I bought a lot of smallish watches from my favorite Japanese estate dealer, always good quality stuff from the 70's to late 80's, a bag was marked "day-dates" it had a bunch of Fortis and other old big brands day dates with fluted bezel, I was astonished at the numbers of "hommages" from all these "reputable" brands... When you look into it the day date fluted bezel might have been the submariner before it's time. Oh it was lol
well... the submariner..was just a copy of earlier watches, they even 'stole' the name from the 'submarine' ( i think it was anyways lol) and the watch shape etc is from the Blancpain.. Rolex just 'trademarked' other peoples ideas tbh lol.. great idea tho!
For a second i got confused thinking that this was a watchfinder&co episode. You literally have the same accent. Very interesting video!!! Keep it up!
He and I are very close!
Andrew, you could describe paint drying that still would sound interesting. That was my first thought when I listened to you in Whatchfinder for the first time.
Thanks very much!
I know why brands like Rolex hate artisans, because it's a shame artisans make those overpriced watches better what Rolex has done it in the first place. I hate Rolex and companies like Rolex.
From that statement I believe he would agree a fake YT video is the best video.
First time I got to this channel…the watch finder voice with a face is a trip 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Super informative video. Maybe a little work on background would lift the picture.
I know it's not in the same playing field. However, there has been a huge uptick of hobbyists modifying their Seiko watches, some of which look absolutely phenomenal (look up the Bloodmoon).
Mr Morgan: excellent points from an enthusiast’s perspective. Unfortunately, there are many points raised that give pause and strike this IP lawyer as not quite right. IP law varies dramatically by jurisdiction and is constantly evolving, so it is tricky to draw conclusions outside of a specific factual context. Even then, it’s hard to get it right in a short video. That said, I also enjoy the work of Artisans, M.A.D. Paris and Skeleton Concepts.
Hopefully in broad brush strokes it’s there!
That Daytona looks good, certainly better than anything JCB junior ever turned out. Enjoyed the tour around trade mark law too.
I love this channel! What a great slant and take on this subject. Spot on! Makes me want to send my Air King to Artisans de Geneve to see what they could do to it. I've been watching you.....well, your hands......since the very beginning....I've watched the Rolex disassembly/reassembly video on WF....at least 100 times....inspired me to throw tons of money in the bin, buying everything Bergeon makes, some Hamilton 992's from eBay (sound familiar?) and dedicating my eternity on the floor in search of that damn screw. Great thumbnail.....I was like, "he's totally getttng that video copyrighted"...best clickbait ever....I always wondered how those skeletonized Daytonas were still Rolexes.....makes total sense now. I'd love to have a piece unique of the Rolex everyone loves to hate. As a pilot, one who flies King Airs, was born in 1969, and is 69 inches tall, the referenced 116900 was a choice made for me. How cool would it be to have someone else on the floor building me a cool watch? Cheers, friend!
Thanks very much for supporting me through the years! Good luck with the project 😄
Great video Andrew!
I am curious what mods if any Rolex is ok with to get service. Like a dial change with a genuine Rolex dial or a need for an extra link for a bracelet. Those would seem to me to be ok but I don't know how much of a stickler Rolex is. Does the change have to made by Rolex itself while in service?
It’s like the ship of Theseus after changing so many things it becomes a new thing
You mean 'triggers broom' 😉
A product only needs to be 20% different to be accepted as a different product to be shut down immediately due to trademark. They can only make a claim if it affects their brand.
The rumour is that Hamilton dropped his case because his lawyers got a letter from a solicitor representing an island off the coast of Scotland!! 😂😂
Absolutely nothing is preventing Rolex from making their own Honey Gold watch, incorporating the exact same upgrades. The simple fact that you must first OWN a Rolex in order to have it modified is proof that they cannot be hurting Rolex's sales or their reputation. This is very much different than the $600 Rolex fakes, that should be illegal but are still marketed openly. Those are counterfeits, and not modifications of the real thing.
Hi Andrew, it reminds me when Mansory customize say a Mercedes or Porsche for example for certain customer.
Ruin is more apt.
Very interesting... on one hand I want people to be able to do whatever they want with their own money, in this case it's a better product but it could be a slippery slope where it will make it harder for smaller companies to survive past their mid-life success
I loved a show called west coast customs hosted by a gentleman known as exhibit I believe. Once they exchanged the crappy nylon lining of a car’s interior with tweed and walnut. And it looked amazing. If you buy a Rolex and choose to have it modified to make it exactly how you want it and they have the skill to do it well, then hell that’s a service I’d happily use. It may come as a surprise I’m no expert on copyright law, but this feels entirely reasonable to me. Rolex can suck it up
We customize stuff all the time. The rubber hoses of my washing machine, I changed to metal coated hoses, which were less likely to leak. I didn't need the companies permission. The modified Rolex is openly sold as a modified Rolex, and Rolex is not involved in the modification. Of course, that cancels the warranty. People should be able to modify their property.
Yeah, oh that is pretty bad that Rolex is mad that somebody else makes a Wash better and make sure move much better than they did. Love your video. Keep up the good work, but then again, I’m a big grand Seiko fan.
Love your voice, you could create all this beautifully story about watches and put our imagination in work. Nice to meet you finally. 😂
Thanks very much 😁
First, it’s a shame Rolex didn’t think of this modification themselves. Second, I am a firm believer that when a customer buys and pays for a product they should be able to modify it in any fashion that suits them.
OK to do what you want as long as trademark is respected & you know the modification may impact manufacturer's service level.
@@jonathanm5755 …I agree that if a person makes a modification to a product they purchased, then later on sends it in for servicing, the manufacturer is under no obligation to service it as it has been changed from the original specs when sold. From the manufactures viewpoint the device will never work as originally designed so they will not want to touch it. Back in the 1980’s I bought a brand new Omega Speedmaster caliber 1045, Mark 4.5. Being young and stupid I decided the white sweep seconds hand should be red and not white, as originally sold. So I painted it. Shortly after the watch stopped running and I took it back to Omega. They completely overhauled the watch back to factory specs, and charged me accordingly as I had voided the warranty. And then, before giving it back to me sat me down and gave me a lecture I never forgot. (Omega people are serious about their watches). So do I believe that people should modify their watches. No. Do I believe they have a right to, as the owner. Yes. But be prepared to pay the consequences.
Artisans de Geneve actually make some pretty cool pieces we have a Cool Hand Brooklyn / Spike Lee edition in atm actually just did a video on it
You’re absolutely crushing it. I actually put off watching this video for a bit because I didn’t want another video about fake Rolex. Then I finally pushed play and boom - damn. So interesting. You might be the “60 Minutes” of horology KZheadrs.
Thanks very much 😊
The watch I purchased from swissarex was of a high caliber, which astonished me. It closely resembles the original.
swissarex is a scammer. You must be a shill for swissarex.
This is by far the best narrator voice since David Attenborough
Worth remembering perhaps that Rolls Royce once successfully sued a company a&a Fibreglass, Inc for making conversion kits for adding a Rolls Royce a’like radiator to aVW beetle.
Much as I'd like to see some proper high horology from Rolex, the risk/ reward isn't there for them, they know they can keep the hype alive with minimal R&D by just releasing the same watch with the same movement in a slightly altered colour and that will be enough to fill order lists for 4 years ... Until someone in the industry is trading blows with Rolex on sales AND brand recognition they'll never be compelled to take bold steps
Great video. Good to see someone attempting to make a Rolex watch worth the price. Great customization.
Andrew Very professional as usual, although I love Pepsi black carbonated soft dtink , not Coca-Cola one . Nizar
😄 thanks
How quickly my watch from swissarex came astounded me. It was safely wrapped and had a genuine appearance.
swissarex is a scammer. You must be a shill for swissarex.
Just shows there is room for improvement in both Porsche and Rolex as the examples hit the nail on the head in terms of design fit & finish.
Fascinating, thank you 👍
2:36 "borderline narcisistic"..........how diplomatic of you;D
Im all for modifiers. Once you’ve bought it you can do what you want whether it be watches, cars …
Modifiers should be allowed to modify, and manufacturers should be able to require the removal of their logos and the voiding of their warranties.
06:58 one thing that really 'grind my gears' about these/that Daytona is the teeny-tiny little dots by the numbers on the bezel insert, they're all mixed up points, there's no uniform dot-spacing and that gets my petty little OCD INFLAMED! ..one tiny little design 'flaw' (for me it's a massive un-noticable flaw) and I just can't help but look straight at them everytime.. I couldn't care less about that dot above the 90 on the Sppedy, but these?.. I can't help but look at them in different 'spots' and it makes my palms itch.
lol i THOUGHT this was gonna be about a certain gentleman known as TC... lotta controversy about that one, ginault and his apparent ties to some of the mods of watchuseek forums
Looking forward to that JLC content 🤞
The dynamic between ADG and Rolex is about as good as one can expect. One step in either direction seems like it would be a common sense violation of the other. Customizing a clients watch seems fair. Just the same as if they were buying watches, altering them, then using the original manufacturers logo and selling them for profit seems wrong. Right now, they’re providing a service, as opposed to selling products. Don’t know how it could be more fair.
Fine show Andrew. Thanks
Branding in the luxury market is a serious issue. There are so many knockoffs being produced by people wanting to make a quick buck. In the watch needs industry too many unsuspecting customers think they are buying real product and getting ripped off. Singer at least is ensuring it's customers know it's value add to their existing Porsches. The race driver Hamilton can use his own name if he uses branding that differentiates from the established Hamilton watch brand. For example, call the racer's brand Driving Champion Hamilton.
Artisans de Geneva makes Rolex's actually worth keeping instead of reselling them. Personalised watches from brands like AdG, Blaken and Bamford are hot topics but ones I agree with. However how does DiW work then since they don't appear to customise and personalise but just remake models in lighter fashion with brighter colours? If anyone could provide me with the answers I'd be grateful
it feels so weird putting a face on the voice of watchfinder but im here for it
Thanks for coming!
This was a fascinating video. I think its absolutely fine as you explained it in regards to the car... If the heart/movement is Rolex its a Rolex with an aftermarket dial etc... This is what happens when Rolex becomes the peoples watch 🤥😅 Im glad you see it this way... If you do so do i!!! Legend
How about “band-aid” and “Q-tip”? Lol
Interesting discussion, I can definitely agree you buy a thing you should be able to customise, mangle , complicate, uglify etc it any way you like....I also admit I pretty much despise rolex, not for their watches (which as far as I know are great) but they way they treat their potential customers. But I do see this pretty straightforwardly. if it’s a private individual or just small mods I can see it’s probably ok for it to say “rolex”. But if you have business model based on massively modifying someone else’s products (& advertise that’s what you do) ironically I think you’re now a victim of your own success - massively modify & commercially sell a car, watch, guitar, whatever...it should only be sold with modifiers logo on it....
At the height of the Great Depression, 2012, I was consulting in Lagos, Nigeria, for the Government. The ministry team staff took me to dinner at a popular restaurant. When we were leaving a group of 5 men surrounded us wielding machetes and pistols. Immediately I handed them my 116759SANR and the guys were going crazy, just crazy, shooting their guns to the air, dancing with the women in our group... and then left, just left. Everybody thanked me for my heroism and that they hoped the watch was insured. Upon learning it wasn't they arranged for a replacement. Why? Because one of the people in that ministry team was the youngest daughter of the ministry herself. So somehow I got an excellent Swiss-made replica of a 100k watch worth 3k replaced by an actual 100k watch. Just shows that you've to keep your replica's quality high.
I've seen some gorgeous mods and have been tempted to try, but I have concerns on maintenance. Rolex isn't going to fix a mod watch and who knows how long it would take for the mod company to repair. And heaven forbid if the company goes out of business.
From swissarex, where I've purchased a number of watches, I've never been let down. They provide the best choices and rates.
hamilton sued a colorado company for making wristwatches with old pocketwatch movements and dials that said hamilton on them and hamilton lost. Looks to me like the same case as the california rolex modders but with the opposite outcome.
I think it’s awesome. They have built a much better much nicer and much more beautiful watch then Rolex. Bravo! I would love to own one. If I purchase my watch and paid for it w my money then I can do whatever I want to it.
If I pay money to buy and own something, its mine to do as I please. It's like buying a car, put a wrap on it with a colour never offered by the company and be sued for a counterfeit. You own it, you modify, repair it any way you want.
I do think anyone who owns a certain product should be allowed to customize it (or have it customized) to their liking. The only objection I see would be if a company added offensive symbols to the item (e.g. swastikas or racial slurs), but other than that it should not be an issue for the original manufacturer. This particular watch is very tastefully made and an overall improvement of the original.
I agree. Hell of a watch. They should keep making them.
Thank you for this excellent video!
Thanks for watching!
Andrew, speaking of Panerai trademark infringement case, how come Steinhart never got into trouble for copying rolex designs?
No idea! Perhaps the Rolex shape has been used enough to prevent it from being protected but the name and logo are still protected?
@@AndrewMorganWatches From what I know, there have to be 7 differences to avoid a trademark violation. . Other than that, my guess would be as good as yours.
I can't believe how similar the Omega watch on gussl is to the original one.
If you have purchased a product and it's not to your standard, you have every right to upgrade it. e.g. if you have a slow car, you have every right to install a turbo.
That Honey green is STUNNING
Well there's a whole community of Seiko modding, I don't see why Rolex shouldn't have one. It reminds me how Ferrari puts a lawsuit on Deadmau5 for modding his Ferrari. I think it's a stupid idea that owners modifying their own property can damage the brand image. One day if I'm rich and stupid enough to own and mod a Daytona, I will mod it with anime motifs, just for the spite of it lol.
Bamford watches used to do the same or similar with Rolex.
Once the customer has bought the item, it no longer belongs to Rolex. It is then up to the customer to do what he wishes with the product and if there is a company available to modify said product then so be it, that is the customer’s choice, not Rolex. It could be argued, that modifying the product is an improvement on the original and the onus should be on Rolex to modify their own products according to the client’s requirements, if they wish to stamp out this modifying business. Seiko have no problems, nor does Casio. Why should Rolex? In fact it could improve their reputation, if they weren’t so short sighted!
I have recently seen a very high copy of the Artisans daytona. If I bought one I would not feel bad about wearing a fake because their watches are less than 20-30% anything to do with the brand
I am not a fan of modifying products I own, since I try not to buy if I am not 100% happy. Especially when it comes to luxury accessories, however, Artists De Geneva should absolutely continue to exist, and yes they are damaging the reputation of Rolex buy improving on their work.
Although I had my doubts about buying a duplicate watch, swissarex dispelled them. The watch has a genuine appearance and feel.
Yup, an exceptional non-orig. A mega rarity when these look better. I'd luv to see more of such cause replicating is a true factory job, and the automated better be the epitome of any production, as for me. Not hand polishing! European style hand shoe restoration is a classy art tho.
Like the Singer example, we have M, AMG, AC Schnitzer, Brabus, Nismo and so on in the car world. Weren't it for them i think the brands would have sold a lot less cars. ADG has made some astounding customisation and like the car manufacturers i think Rolex will only benefit from it.
Absolutely would love one of these or a special mod, and I'm not a big Rolex fan
A most fascinating recent case was of the B-is for build youtube channel vs the owner of the intellectual rights to the car name 'eleanor'
So what you're telling me is that I can have a silvered pink Daytona if I pay stupid money to customize it? I might be willing to do this
Kind of unique to say similar to Shelby with Ford.
Since people can customise their cars in to oblivion they are also allowed to do that with their watches. Artisans de Geneve is just a tuner shop.
Very interesting show!! Great loophole as long as they don’t own the Rolex, they just get paid for the work done to the Rolex!;) like a decorator won’t own my house but he can make my Bathroom look ten times better!
You’re basically and IP lawyer 😂
JFC so many SPAM comments about Swissrex😂😂
What Rolex can learn here is that there is a whole market for this. Can and should they try to shut down Artisannnes de Geneve? They CAN and they might fail (which is a huge risk on many fronts). Or. They can learn from this and start a whole partnership with them. It might open some kind of floodgate madness to the customization game (might happen anyway) but imagine if Rolex could make watches like this without having to MAKE them. Just provide the parts and charge a shit ton more money for the pass through and take a bite out of AdG and give them some imprimatur of being the AMG of the whole brand. It’s like opening up the top end. It’s a lot easier than trying to build and AMG in house, at least for now. Rolex has a great game going. But growth and the respect of its peers on anything but a financial level is unlikely without some smarts on this front. That said, this is all WAY above my pay grade.
I think that if one were to have the view that trademarks shouldn't be infringed upon, then they should be consistent with their views whether or not legal loopholes exist. People who don't like fakes because of their trademark infringement shouldn't like these other brands that are doing the same thing. This is just my opinion of course.
honestly makes me want to just sell my gens
Although I had doubts about buying a replica watch, gussl dispelled my doubts. The watch has an authentic look and feel.
There are thousands and thousands of Seiko mods in the world
When you say super clone, it better be Swiss-made. Only ziarex delivers that level of perfection.
It's your watch to do what you want with - up to a point. Anyone remember when Ferrari sued Deadmau5 for something that isn't so far removed from this?
sitting back learning about watches from hands.....how relaxing right?