Why Religion is Declining in Modern Societies | Ryan Cragun
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About Ryan Cragun:
Dr. Ryan T. Cragun is a husband, father, and empirical sociologist (in order of importance). His scholarship focuses on nonreligion (or secular lifestances) and Mormonism. His research has been published in a variety of academic journals, such as: Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, Sociology of Religion, and Social Science and Medicine. He's the author or editor of numerous books, including, Beyond Doubt: The Secularization of Society and Organized Secularism in the US. When he's not working, he's spending time with his wife and son, hiking, or tinkering with computers. For more about his work, you can visit his website: www.ryantcragun.com. Originally from Utah, he now lives in Florida and works at The University of Tampa.
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Getting someone who openly says they’re an atheist elected to a senate seat or the presidency in the US would be fantastic
Why
Having US politicians who had the interests of US citizens in mind rather than the interests of corporations, lobby groups and foreign countries as a priority would be a better place to start. Also, adhering to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights would be better than the current idea of legislating us into a 1984-like nightmare world.
You live in a hereditary monarchy the popular vote has never determined the president. Remember it's a pedophiliac incestuous war clan not a government!
@@sravasaksitam Because it just doesn't happen. There was a guy a while ago who admitted, after elected, that he was an atheist. He was hounded out of office. You gotta pretend to believe in Sky Daddy. Now, if you lie about literally everything else about yourself, people will purse their lips and be a little pissy. But you get to stay in office.
@@sravasaksitam Because the religious are well known liars, grifters and hypocrites. Because we don't want self-righteous, arrogant religious Adult Toddler Magical Thinkers with their finger on the button advised and influenced religious lunatics who think the voices in their heads are their cherry picked god talking.
I strongly suspect that the reason why some pastors fought against the temporary closing of churches during the pandemic, was the fact that when many lose the habit of church on a Sunday, they don't pick it up again.
True that...
As has been seen. I'm a church musician - it's hard to get people back in the habit to come to church. My choir members are among the most devoted attenders. But perhaps that's due to the added benefits of music-making and community.
and why are 'churches tax exempt in america?... ridiculous
@@JohnKerr-bq3voNot just churches - religious organisations in general full into the non-profit tax exemption, usually 501(c)3. There is supposed to be a restriction on non-profits in that class engaging in political campaigns, but in the case of churches even the IRS fears to enforce that - the public backlash would be too bad even for them. There are a few businesses that pretend to be religions for the tax benefits too.
@@vylbird8014 Unfortunately true.. i watched John Oliver's program whereby he set up a fake church and got tax exempt status... no need to report and the IRS have zero interest in checking status.... pathetic state of affairs...
As a child, I was forced to attend church every Sunday... When I was in my teens, my mother stopped attending church all together and just started cooking fantastic meals for the family... Friends started coming by too... The amount of joy WE had was incredible... People really blossom when they are not forced to follow others or feel guilt and shame because they like to have sex or keep that 10% of their income in their pockets... It's the pastors that need this to keep making the payments on those luxury automobiles and traveling in first class!
Hello. There are many false teachers as Jesus warned. For us to use them as an excuse to reject God/ Jesus Christ and hold onto a lifetime of lying, lusting, coveting, hating, blaspheming and more is silly. One day we all face God for such things and for refusing His offer to forgive/forget by what Jesus Christ did on the cross. Energy runs out. Health runs out. Life runs out. And all our joy of sin won't be worth the coming judgment.
Also consider: information and instructions on how to build something is scientific proof of an intelligence. This means the information and instructions in our dna on how to build brains that work, eyes that see, ears that hear, digestive systems that process food and countless more things are undeniable proof of an intelligence, rather than the "secular" religious belief of "nothing did it - it just happened", which is a denial of science. The only faith part about that the intelligence is that is far greater than us, far more powerful than us, is Who that intelligent being is.
@@ForumLight Apparently Gaslighting is an acceptable form of lying to god.
@@ForumLightBlah,Blah,Blah!! I’m a proud Atheist and I’m far happier living a very full and exciting life. I stopped believing in fairy tales when I was 12.
God's word doesn't have anything to do with the pastors. You're either worshipping God or you're worshipping the church. It can't be both.
I used to attend a Bible study group. Although I am nonreligious, I enjoy learning about religion because of its importance in the history of western culture. The other men in the group would spend about half of the time attacking homosexuality, and they made constant references to the Book of Romans. The remaining time was spent jumping back and forth looking for passages that demonstrate how we are approaching the end times. They were some of the angriest, most negative people I’ve ever met. I don’t know many people who would want to make this their way of living anymore.
What a way to live thinking armageddon is going to occur at any moment. No thanks.
👍
bet there was never a hate-filled tirade against tattoos
@@andyf4292or raging against clothes of mixed threads, e.g. cotton+polyester.
I've always been fascinated about how straight men seem to care so much about what other men do in their bed.
And the thing people also don't seem to grasp is that dogma is the true problem of human civilizations. As secular people can fall into the same pitfalls of non-critical thinking in the case of politics. Which is why critical thinking skills is perhaps one of the greatest gifts we can give our future generations.
Sure, people of all types can become dogmatic about certain things. But the dogma of religion is particularly pernicious. Especially Abrahamic religions. Their dogma is underpinned by assertions of special dispensation ("chosen people"). A dispensation doled out by an asserted king of gods...God (the "one true God"). Religions that make use of such divine specialness/rightness are, at core, adversarial. So instead of having hope that some nonreligious dogmatic disagreements might be worked through, it's decidedly been shown that arguments about "holy lands" are hopeless. And cutting through all the nonsense, it's really just so childish. Ridiculously childish.
@@jaybingham3711 I agree with you wholeheartedly. Certain dogma's are more persistent and rooted in than others, but I have seen other atheists argue that if all religions would disappear, that all the worlds problems go away. Certainly a lot of issues would melt away, but certain groupthink dogma's will persist for a looooong time after.
Its all narrative… everything you belief or accept, and everything you don’t believe or accept. Literally every thought in your head.
@@billgross176 but if you accept that there is an outside world and that it's inhabited by other same thinking individuals of the same race(AKA rejecting hard-solopsism from the get-go, and accepting the laws of logic) Then you can find parts of the universe that aren't just dependent on narrative. Meaning that there can be facts and opinions on facts. Critical thinking becomes one of the most important tools to use to weave through the good and bad ideas to find the demonstrably best ideas possible. I'll never claim that my opinion is the best, as I will change my opinion based on reasonably argued arguments to the contrary of my opinion. If I accept that there is an outside universe, then narrative isn't all there is. Can I definitively demonstrate that I am not a brain in a vat? No, but that won't make me decide to murder and steal what I please.
@@aukemebel4263 Not sure what point you were trying to make. If by the “universe” you mean the universe of other humans - then they are all running their own narratives. Sure there are actual facts and I take it as a given that we are not brains in vats (no need to be that pedantic)… so what? Not really my original point.
Honestly even as an atheist myself I hate the thought of destroying old churches I love cathedrals such beautiful buildings they could be great places for lectures ironically enough maybe science ted talk or things like that
Or convert it into a skate park, as mentioned in the beginning of the video.
@@sorryperson92 oh yeah I know he said that
@@andresfurious8302 Abandoning religion doesn't mean that places of worship have to be destroyed. In societies where being an atheist isn't contentious, such as in my native Germany, hardly any atheist is zealous; many people might not even consciously identify as atheists because they simply don't care about religion at all. In these countries, the biggest danger to religious buildings probably comes from economic necessities, not atheist zeal. Maintaining a cathedral doesn't come for free. As an atheist myself, I don't mind the disappearance of many "normal" churches; a quick Google search tells me that there are over 45,000 churches in Germany. Surely, most of these aren't worth keeping. But some definitely are. There are many absolutely breathtaking religious buildings around the world that should be kept. But I don't see why this requires religiosity.
Historically, some of the greatest, most devout Christians were first atheists.
@@jamesgossweiler1349It'd be interesting if you could provide some examples but I don't see what this tidbit, if it is true of which I'm skeptical, is supposed to contribute to the topic at hand.
Spread the good news. You don’t have to believe in ancient superstitions to be a good person and have a good life.
objective value is needed to be good. Most secular morals are based on appealing to popularity or appeal to emotion fallacies.
@@Is-your-logic-valid Exactly the opposite of the truth. Human reason is the only sound basis for morality. Ancient superstitions are not a basis for morality and in many cases are anti-moral and anti-human.
@@marcbelisle5685 That doesn't make any rational sense, how is SUBJECTIVE human reason more sound than OBJECTIVE value? You're demonstrably wrong, objective properties show their value, not human opinion. See you strawmanning me by bringing up ancient superstitions shows human reason is NOT a solid foundation for how one should live. Your mind has signaled to you that I am arguing in favor of ancient superstitions WHEN IN FACT I'M NOT. You're proving my point. You whine about "anti-moral" and "anti-human". What does science and reason show? It shows that morality is an OPINION made up by a group or one person. All moral codes are equal in objective value, that's what science and reason show. "Anti-human"? So what? Your notion that being anti-human is bad is subjective to YOU. Objectivity doesn't show that as bad, in and of itself. You need to always follow valid and sound logic and reason over how you FEEL things ought to be!
@@marcbelisle5685 The universe is anti-human because most of it is hostile to maintaining the homeostasis of a human being. Does that automatically mean its "wrong"? NO, it doesn't. Because "validity" and "soundness" don't depend on human wellbeing. Science and reason show that to be true. See, a lot of you atheists want to replace religion with the adoration of mankind, its dna, and its abilities. I REJECT your secular dogma of that, because it has no rational objective basis for it. My opinion is falsifiable if you can show how planet Mercury, which has no humans on it, is a bad place BECAUSE it lacks humanity. That would, hypothetically, show my opinion that wrong. But no, what will you use to "prove" me wrong. I bet a logical fallacy. Probably ad hominem, or appeal to popularity? Or appeal to nature?
Theists: durrrr worship god, obey his/their commands, durrr! You/pro-life atheists: durrrr worship mankind, H-sapians, respect their dna, durrrr! Nothing but dogma. Where's the science and reason that validate human beings over roaches, or rocks, or hydrogen atoms??? Always follow science and reason over what your biological feelings are FEELING you to be true!
I think the modernization of communications such as the internet and cable TV have a huge role. Younger people are more informed of church views of social issues and are more aware of scandals that seem to get headlines every week. The old joke is a guy walks into a confessional and when the priest asks him to confess his sins, he responds, "You go first."
LOL, good one!
Young people still need to learn though to divide the truth from the bs. I blame the parents for being dumber than expected
@@ninab.4540 I would agree we all to learn that lesson. Parents aren't much better.
I was raised Christian by 2 very devout parents. Even as a young kid, I couldn’t wrap my head around why I was lucky enough to be born into the right family, in the right country, with the right culture, and the right religion - to where I was going to be saved over someone in India. Didn’t take much sense to see the problem with Christianity.
So basically, you noticed that people are born in different times and places and situations and for some reason Christianity didn't have an answer for what wasn't a problem and that was a problem? I think there's something I'm not understanding here. Can you elaborate further?
@@thepalegalilean If you are born in a country where Christianity isn't part of your childhood indoctrination, you likely will suffer eternal punishment and agony after you die. That's rather unlucky, but not your fault.
@@c.a.t.732 *If you are born in a country where Christianity isn't part of your childhood indoctrination, you likely will suffer eternal punishment and agony after you die.* That means absolutely nothing. Even if I were to accept your misunderstanding of Hell as authentic, it does not speak to the truth or falsehood of that belief in any way, shape or form. So, again, I fail to see how this is a problem for Christianity. You were indoctrinated to believe that because we are better evolved dumb apes, that entitles us to dignity and rights. If you were born in Communist China, or Soviet Russia, you wouldn't believe such absurdities. but I have this sneaking suspicion you will not apply your logic to that belief like you would religion. But your place of birth does not affirm or deny that the genus of dumb apes we call humanity ought to have dignity and rights. So, it's a moot point that was never even a point. *That's rather unlucky, but not your fault.* That certainly wouldn't be that individual's fault, but it wouldn't speak to the truth or falsehood of any worldview, much less Christianity.
@@thepalegalilean If you aren’t exposed to the gospel due to geographical location, faith of your parents, or differences culture, it’s game over for you regardless of how good a person you are. This is all because you didn’t believe in Jesus. It has nothing to do with true moral accountability.
@@JimmieABES *If you aren’t exposed to the gospel due to geographical location, faith of your parents, or differences culture, it’s game over for you regardless of how good a person you are. This is all because you didn’t believe in Jesus. It has nothing to do with true moral accountability.* The issue is, even if I were to accept this view of Hell, which I don't, and orthodox Christianity does not, it doesn't speak to it being true or false. One can argue (and in my experience has) that moral accountability is only in effect for the People of God. That is to say the Church. God simply doesn't care about how the Indian or Animist African acts, because they aren't God's People. And thus, they simply don't matter. God may passively will for them to be saved, but God isn't too hung up on that one way or another. And therefore, being outside the People of God, have no reasonable expectation of Heaven. Now, to be clear, neither I nor orthodox Christianity ascribes to this view, but it is a valid counter objection. And it speaks directly to the flaw in your argument.
It's been said before, but it's so true for me: I left Christianity because of the people who stayed.
In my life experience the most corrupt people are the ones who profess their Christianity the loudest. When I was 12..I knew religion was a sham after the Minister of my church tried to get me to kiss him ....I ran and never said a word. Atheism is the community I belong in.
That's a keeper! 😄
👍
So, you didn't look at Jesus, you looked at people....no kidding you left. Thankfully, Jesus is still who He said He was, not who people say he is.
@@doloresparlatoApparently you miss the entire point. Not surprising.
A lotta western Christians enthuse about Africa's religiosity, ignoring the abuse of women, homophobia, and other issues that arise from that.
Nigeria is majority Muslim and that country is a mess. Lots of violence and extremism. Christian countries in Africa tend to have high rates of HIV due to stigma surrounding condoms.
@@GenerationX198449% of Nigerians are Christians btw.
Not to mention the women parts mutaliation done with questionable operation quailty still done in the 21st century. As for the Jewish tradition I don't agree with that either. Let the boy be between 13 and 14 before he does the snip forever or not.
They like that shit
I have seen that as well.
This was an interesting breakdown of something I've witnessed my whole life. I was born in 1965 and am a life long atheist. When I was a kid, I was absolutory an anomaly. I didn't meet another atheist until I was well into my teens. Somewhere around 1980. There is no doubt that over the last 25 to 30 years especially, there has been a huge shift. Even if most people aren't necessarily atheist, they certainly aren't religious. In name maybe.
In '66 at the age of 8, i became an atheist. Forced to go to catholic church, then one day knocked unconscious by a nun when i asked a question she didn't like. No apology from anyone involved with that church (including my own father) meant i despised all in that church and decided i would have nothing to do with catholics. Thereafter, any religion day meant i left the house before sunrise, hid, and didn't leave my hiding spot until the "good people" left for church. I became a very "bad person," and at age 12, i discovered the word "atheism" and knew that was what i had been for 4 years.
@@benibluefoe Thankfully I was never forced to go to church or endure any religious indoctrination. I've heard many stories from those who did and escaped it though. Some of it is pretty hearttwrenching. Sounds like child abuse.
@@benibluefoewhat was the question you asked the nun if you don’t mind me asking
Only in small and odd corners of the world - of course religion globally is growing faster than ever
@@topologyrob In some places. Overall about 63% of the world consider themselves religious, which is not exactly "growing faster than ever," though I don't see it as a competition anyway. If no one else on Earth believed what you believe would it matter to you?
Speaking from my own experience, I exposed myself to a few other faiths over time. I was raised Catholic. I then practiced a form of Buddhism for about 5 years. Then there was an upheaval between the American branch of the Buddhist organization I was part of and the head of the organization in Japan. This caused a massive split, and many members left at once. I tried Mormonism for about 5 minutes, and found that one absurd. Like many, when I looked at life closely I could see that there was nothing supernatural about life or what was happening in my life. And as others have discovered, there is a freedom to breaking away from religious dogma that brings with it more clarity and understanding of myself, people and the world around me. It feels like a great amount of weight has been lifted off of my shoulders.
It seems like you went from religious dogma to religious dogma, without exploring faith itself.
HI try to watch the "Nosso Lar" (Our Home) movie and get to know more about ALLAN KARDEC a French professor, philosopher (France, 1800's). You can start by reading the "The Gospel accord to SPIRITISM" then "Genesis" and if you like it follow the other nice books. It has changed my view of the world the universe, God, what we are doing here, where did you come from and where are we going, etc. Hope you can find what you are looking for. Be curious, in peace!
I’m curious as to why you found Mormonism absurd?
@@robindhood9125 because it is.
@@robindhood9125 I'm curious why you don't?
As a child, once I checked out Science books from my local library, any religious ideas in me were doomed
Religion is the belief in things without evidence. Science, on the other hand, is knowledge by way of evidence.
Reading the bible is another way to become Atheist.
One day as a child, I decided to read Microbiology for my personal readings. After that I KNEW that Physics and Astronomy were COMPLETE BULLSHIT!!
For me it was Stargate SG1 ! Technology, aliens, false gods... done
I grew up with science books. Never been religious, even through church when young. Just sat it out.
People aren't naturally religious, they just naturally want answers, even if those answers are made up.
The English word for "God" comes from the Hebrew word Elohim which means gods. The "gods" that the ancient people worshipped in the beginning were the stars. So the Bible's Genesis 1:1 should have been written as "In the beginning the stars created the heaven and the earth". Remember, our Sun is a star ⭐ The word "Angel" means Messenger in Hebrew, it is referring to star/s. A star/s gives us messages. They are our Messengers. Like when to plant seeds and when to harvest etc. Stars move across the sky as if they had wings. That's why we see statues of Angels with wings. They are really statue about stars with wings. "Fallen Angels are just "fallen stars" 🌠 Bible Malachi 4:2 Sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. Bible, Psalm 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun 🌞
Correction, "god" is derived from Old Scandinavian, godh, meaning "god". "Angel" is from Greek, "angelos", messenger. Any reliable dictionary says the same thing. That's where I looked. @carerforever2118
I’m extremely anti religion, but I don’t want to destroy churches or ban the bible. I just want religion to stop dictating our values.
Religion is an attribute of humanity's childhood. Magical thinking. We're now in humanity's adolescence so we're putting away childish things like tribalism, feudalism, and hierarchical power structures.
Let's hope so!!!
Well... agonizingly few of us.
"We've grown out of our infancy." ~Captain Jean-Luc Picard
It's a matter of social evolution, isn't it?
Humanity got its first real pubes during the enlightenment. Now here in the Information Age, perhaps we are starting to develop a deeper voice, complete with all of its many cracks reminding us that the child still remains for now. But inevitably, adulthood is well on its way, should our lack of maturity not result in our demise sooner.
I guess the difference between religiosity and secularism is having one less thing to worry about while still worrying about everyday problems. "Never take life too seriously; you'll never get out of it alive."
I remember studying secularisation at university about 20 years ago. Back then, academics referred to the USA as “The America Exception” as it seemed to be bucking the trend. I’m pleased to see that we now have an explanation for that - Cold War propaganda linked to religiosity! After all these years, it makes so much sense! Thank you.
When non belief is demonized, people aren’t actually free to deconvert.
America is no longer the exception. Pew research's very conservative estimates are showing secularism and non-religiousty is rising in the United States. 1/3 of the population are Atheists/nones nearly half of Gen Z are non-religious...and more accepting of Socialism - which flies in the face of all the Cold war propaganda and 'red scares' Republicans on occasion still try to regurgitate. If you look at the decline of Religion in the United States, it so happen to start sometime in the early to mid 90's. This just co-incidentally happen to be when the Internet started to grow in businesses, Universities, into Internet cafes and then homes.. There may or may not be a correlation there, but I recon the Internet help start the mass instant exchange of ideas along with the anonymity giving free thought more power to spread past the slow and gatekept confines of traditional media. Several other technologies may have only helped spread ideas in the 'Information age' Forums KZhead Smart phones Social media and another big one - A.I. An intelligence that could end up being informative assistance, fact checkers and personal teachers helping parse and communicate massive amounts of data for people to understand.
I don't even understand how McCarthyists back in '951 reasoned that the Soviet Union specifically defined itself by its lack of religion, or that spiting the Evangelical church and the then-rising Televang movement was what Communism or the Warsaw Pact were all about.
My grandmother was very religious, my mother was halfheartedly religious, my siblings and I are barely religious and my sibling’s children don't even know what religion our family is nor do they care. This is extremely common in free societies. I do feel at some point in the distant future the current religions will lose nearly all of their initial pull on society and be viewed as mere systems of beliefs people used to have. Similar to how we view ancient religions today. Nobody takes the belief in Zeus, Apollo or Poseidon seriously anymore. I think a similar fate awaits current day religions.
One can only hope. 😊It is sad how religion is still rife in developing and extremist countries though.
👍
Good
It is true for all religions except, for the religion (cult ?) of peace.
It will probably happen, but not this century. The Vatican still has global influence and relevance, many countries can be considered a religious state like from the Africa continent and Middle East, so it won't probably die out soon in the next hundred years or so.
As a kid I attended church. I could never reconcile that the bible allowed for slavery and that certain groups of people are worthy of "Saving". This was the first red flag that made me scratch the surface that made me question religions messages was being presented to me. NO science was needed for me to do a 180 degree turn on religion at a young age. The science stuff came later as a pursuit obtaining truth. Then refuting what religious people think became simple and easy. My life started when I freed myself of the belief in a god.
"The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible." ~Mark Twain
It was that tree in the garden of Eden that did it for me. Adam and Eve made a mistake and we are still punished for that. That is sick and as a kid I understood that.
*As a kid I attended church. I could never reconcile that the bible allowed for slavery and that certain groups of people are worthy of "Saving".* You actively finance slavery whenever you buy a shirt. I don't understand how you have an issue with slavery, when the practice clearly doesn't prick your conscience. *NO science was needed for me to do a 180 degree turn on religion at a young age.* That's because religion is rooted in Philosophy and Theology. Hard sciences have absolutely no place within these dialogues. If anything, science is subservient to them. *Then refuting what religious people think became simple and easy.* If by 'religious people' you mean fundies, that's not the flex you think it is. A well-educated child could do that. *My life started when I freed myself of the belief in a god.* But you really didn't. You just traded one superstition for another. For instance, you have a problem with slavery (while actively funding it, but I digress), when there's really nothing wrong with int in an objective sense. At least as a Christian, you could be justified in your moral scruples with it, but as an atheist (at least in the Enlightenment Naturalist tradition) all you have to tell you it's wrong is your sentimentality. That is to say, you believe slavery is wrong on the same principle by which theists claim there are god(s). You didn't free yourself from anything. You've simply traded one unprovable metaphysic for another with less justifiable value.
@@thepalegalileanyeah we are sentimental species cause we are social animals. We have empathy (some more than others) and because we can think logically (due to our massive cerebral cortex) we can come to the decision of treating others the way we want to be treated is the best way to manimize pain. No religion or objective morality needed.
And who TF allowed that snake in the garden, if God is all powerful?@@Peter_Scheen
I think Americans exaggerate their religiosity to avoid backlash and it's better for their careers. eg: Actors and musicians thanking god at award ceremonies
That's right it's not rocket science.
One of the silliest things that appeared in sport during my lifetime is the athlete who thanks Jesus for helping the team win the game. I suppose if your Imaginary Friend enjoins you to give witness to his place in your life, you ought to do so. Or risk offending your Imaginary Friend. But to suggest that your Divinity skews the odds in a football match is revolting.
@@oldpossum57 When they lose a game the athletes don't acknowledge God.
Hi John. It's called "publicly conspicuous mental assent, or virtue signalling". Cheers, P.R.
“On one side of the street is a church, the other side a liquor store… both keeping us poor” - Chuck D of Public Enemy
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." ~ Bertrand Russell
Thank god religiosity is declining. It's not happening fast enough. The bad thing is, the people who are religious are getting frightened by that and are getting louder and more aggressive. Even though church attendance is down, there are still things that people latch on to like conspiracy theories and hero worship. The current situation in the US is frightening.
You shouldn't have used "thank God" in your comment 😊
It's an expression. A person could express how much (s)he likes a stake by saying it's "to die for". I doubt anyone would die for a meal. That's just an example, there are thousands of usual expressions that don't literally mean what they are saying....@@alcdeister
Actually orthodox and loud notions, homophobia, etc. is one of the major reasons for the decline of organised religion. If religious people get even louder, people will leave religion faster.
@@hiruzenmonofuke7344 In the US, it's the evangelical Christians that are pushing for a theocratic dictatorship. They have infiltrated all levels of government. The current Speaker of the House is an evangelical Christian who believes that the separation of church and state isn't in the Constitution even though it is. He believes that his version of Christianity and the bible should be the rule of law.
@@alcdeister I say "Oh god" a lot even though I'm an atheist. It means nothing to me.
This gives me hope as a nearly 60 year old lifelong atheist.
70yo here, same.
New atheist. This gives me hope too.
y'all must of had it rough growing up surrounded by pure delusion. At least nowadays a lot more people are willing to at least question religion. When I study history its clear that as we go farther back in time it was less and less socially acceptable to be atheist. I appreciate you guys for not being a part of the problem.
On that subject, some of the finest, most giving and charitable people I know are athiest or agnostic. Live your life right, don't worry about the hereafter is a perfectly respectable choice.
I’m not confident. Although religiosity is declining, the truth is religion is getting powerful each day, being US, Brazil and Muslim countries at the top. They’re deeply infiltrated in the governments and media. Even as bad, they are becoming extremists, following their leaders blindly.
I've been a Christian since baptism and have been active in the faith community for decades. But I have never been reluctant to challenge my beliefs; I've done it many times over the years. I've wandered away from my faith several times but have always come back, full of questions. Over the past decade I've been questioning the role of a "bricks and mortar" religion and have come to doubt its value. I'm not opposed to it, I'm just not as dependent as I once was. In regard to the decline of religious beliefs in modern, urban cities, I understsnd it. But I sometimes wonder if those people who yearn for spititual companionship might someday start a new kind of religious practice, one free of the regimens, the mistrust, the hatreds, and the pettiness of traditional faiths. We'll see.
I loosely believe in all deities myself; I think a big issue with religion is how overbearing it is, every conversation comes to some singular monotheistic god, which is very stifling. Not my type of spirit, not my place.
This actually is a atheist troll channel which seeks to talk people into becoming an atheist.
Me too.
That's what happened with me, when I turned to polytheistic omnism. Just kinda...the belief that ideas, positive ones, like your creations in books or movies, or anything really, exist somewhere out in the multiverse, which is ever-expanding. We are all gods, and we may have been created that way too. "But a thought" in a good way. Sounds strange, I know, but it's just kinda how I think about the world and come to accept it. I could be very wrong, and am completely against pushing ideas on others. Doesn't rule my life either. Just a 'hm, this sounds like a nice concept, I'll go with it :)'
Become a real human again with no special task than maybe to love other humans and createurs of this world and more. Or do nothing its your life not a sentence a longtime ago.
"when your cellphone breaks are you gonna take it to a priest, rabi, shaman, or monk" 40k tech priest: sweating profusely
Even the most ardently religious person now believes in things that would have been deemed heresy before the Enlightenment.
And what's your point?
@@robinrehlinghaus1944He means that they would've been Galileo Galilei'd with these modern ideas of women, gay and slave free rights 😂
@@ninab.4540 1) Religion is subject to change as all things on earth are. That doesn't per se devalidate it. 2) I can only suspect how familiar you are with him, but I implore you to read some more about Galilei before using him as an example here. 3) The association of 'women rights' with 'heresy' is rather odd; the only instance in which these two are directly linked is in the question of women being allowed priesthood. The so-called 'woman question' about the status of women in education and broader society began before the advent of enlightenment philosophy or even Protestantism, about in the beginning of the 15th century, and there was no thought of any heresy involved before the matter became politicised with the Reformation. 4) Ideas regarding the freeing of slaves have been debated in religious thought even before Christianity, but the idea that calls for freeing slaves would have been deemed heresy is unsubstantiated. For one, it was widely officially considered illegal to own Christians as slaves. Notably, religious thought did later play an important role in abolitionism.
When one person is delusional it is called insanity. when many people are delusional they call it religion
TBF every human is delusional in one way or another
We all have modern myths and delusions. Take the modern myth of perpetual economic growth or some arcing of history towards progress.
Depends, there are also atheistic schools in religions like hinduism, jainism and buddhism.
Now realise this: Judaism, Christianity and Islam share the same God, yet they kill each other regularly IN THE NAME OF THE SAME GOD, and 2 out of 3 really want to kill the og people! (Crusades, for starters)
@@hiruzenmonofuke7344Secular Buddist here. I do believe in something after death, but I doubt it's heaven, hell or just the void.
The number of American senators who say out loud that they are doing the lords work is mind boggling.
Ah but did they say *which* lord?
@@MorbidEelWhy, Zeus of course. Or was it Thor? Or maybe Yaweh? Or perhaps buddha? Maybe even allah? It gets silly to think about when there’s more than one “omnipotent singular all powerful god” to choose from xD
@@dryfox11 I was thinking more along the lines of "Satan". Makes perfect sense to be doing all sorts of bad things if you worship an 'evil' god.
At my dad's funeral, the pastor asked me why he never sees me anymore. I told him that I'm an atheist. He asked me why I stopped believing, and I told him that he's asking the wrong person, the wrong question. The question he needs to be asking, is how can someone still believe that stuff, and the person that he needs to be asking that question to, is himself. That shut down the conversation pretty quick.
well that was just rude. the guy was just doing his job which by the way you had paid him to do in the first place. although i can understand you on an emotional level
@@dbass4973 I don't think it was rude. The pastor asked James a question and he answered honestly.
@@TheTruthKiwi👍
@@dbass4973 That was not the job he was paid to do ... bet I get your point, it's all about getting paid
@@mrsatire9475 i suppose the funeral was held with the Christian rituals, hence pastor was most probably paid. No point to make remarks about his personal beliefs then. Isn't that a type of behaviour which repels us from the organized religion?
"If God exist, I want him to tell me himself. I don't want to hear it from anybody else - and in case you're wondering, that includes you," - Pat Condell -
What if god can’t speak?
@@matterasmachine then, why call him God?
@@matterasmachine Then he hasn't spoken to the people who claim they have a relationship with him, and they're all lying or delusional.
Okay, I am memorizing this line - fantastic!!!
@@tommyvictorbuch6960 why not? Did you hear about Spinoza?
After actually trying to read the bible and getting half way through Genesis I was like, yeah this isn't for me
🤣
I remember not believing the story of Noah's Ark when I was 6. And I asked one of my little friends if she believed it was different from a made-up story, and she thought about it and said "No, not really."
Yeah Genesis has a lot of red flags early on, like claiming people lived to be 800 years old and so on.
Chapter 1 is already blatantly wrong. Then you get an "omniscient" god setting up "his loved creation" for total failure and it all becomes completely laughable. You have to be absolutely brainwashed, ignorant and not very bright to take this stuff literally. And even when taken metaphorically, that still doesn't make such god look any better.
Same. Years later read Job on a whim. Was better. Skipped through plenty bits but its crap read. Maybe I'll try again with the view of it as historical mythology and it might be good, if I can manage to actively forget ablut the throngs of people who actually believe it.
"If your cell phone breaks, would you take it to a priest?" - YES. Its machine spirit must be appeased. 😉
Warhammer 40k reference - tech priests !
Recently a famous atheist, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, announced that she was now a Christian. When stating why, instead of emphasizing a belief in the doctrines of Christianity, she stated that she saw it as a better framework for societal change. I’m probably oversimplifying it bunt that was my takeaway of her position. This makes me wonder - when people don’t necessarily believe in the supernatural aspects of a religion but they support it out of tribalism or a belief that it will lead to better outcomes, are they still truly religious? I think many here in the US claim to be fervently Christian, but it seems like more of a social and political position than anything involving actual belief - it’s more of a commitment to traditionalism than anything else. Many secularists are shocked by the trend in the US by evangelicals to claim a fervent belief in Christianity while also taking positions that seem to contradict the traditional teachings of that religion. When religious affiliation is just another badge to wear, is it still a religion? Are these people actually believers, or just another population under the influence of modernism, but in an advanced form of denial?
And that's what disgusting about religions. The theistic claims are so popular amongst the wast majority of people, because, sadly, it's way easier to say that "God did it" and "You won't die really" then learning how stuff works and dealing with mortality. Also, I don't care I will say it, religious people are simply unable to use logical thinking, no reasoning skills, nor any interest in deeper understanding reality, so what are you expecting when politicians take up religion, because they couldn't care less about any gods, but how much money they can gather through the simple people.
Religion has always been a stepping stone for a goal. Social change is one of them, sometimes good, sometimes bad. People who adhere to a certain religion may not necessarily believe in it and merely support it because they have common goals.
@@goncalocarneiro3043 Damn right! Try to have a political career as an atheist, instant fail.
Religion isn't about moving societies forward into a better new world of knowledge. It's about forcing them to remain in the old world of paganistic self-delusion.
That is why the American founding fathers deemed *ALL* religions unfit for modern governance. _“The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or Mohammedan Nation.”_ *- John Adams* (American statesman, attorney, diplomat, writer, Founding Father & 2nd president) The *1st Amendment's Establishment Clause* prohibits the government from making any law, _“respecting an establishment of religion.”_ This clause not only forbids the government from establishing an official religion, but also prohibits government actions that unduly favor one religion over another. It also prohibits the government from unduly preferring religion over non-religion. *Constitution Article VI Supreme Law - Clause 3 Oaths of Office* _"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; _*_but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."_* This means nobody is ever required to swear on the Bible, or any other religious book for an oath of office. They may choose a religious book, but none is required. _“...the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."_ *-Treaty of Tripoli - June 7, 1797. Signed by President John Adams & Ratified UNANIMOUSLY, by the Senate June 10, 1797* ....only a few times in history the Senate unanimously agreed on anything. A 2018 Supreme Court Ruling re-affirmed this statement, from The Treaty of Tripoli. *PETER CARL BORMUTH, Petitioner,* *V.* *COUNTY OF JACKSON, MICHIGAN Respondent* This Court also released an opinion on May 14, 2018 in Murphy v. National Collegiate Athletic Assn., 584 U. S. (2018), Justice Thomas in his concurring opinion wrote: _"The Treaty of Tripoli was passed by the Senate and signed into law by President John Adams. As such, it is a "legislated text" which must be read "textually". _*_The lower courts in this case read a hypothetical legislative intention into the text by dismissing Article 11 as "a mere formality". The language itself makes a clear direct statement that our government is not based on the Christian religion_*_ and any attempt by a government official to represent our government as Christian contradicts the text and the historical understanding of our founders."_ _“This would be the best of all possible Worlds, if there were no Religion in it”_ *-John Adams* )Letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, 19 April 1817) _"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."_ *-Thomas Jefferson* (Letter from Jefferson to John Adams, 11 April 1823) _"The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason."_ *-Benjamin Franklin* (Poor Richard's Almanac) _“The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion....and as this is the case with Christian theology, it is therefore the study of nothing.”_ *― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason (1794)*
@@xjarheadjohnson That was a very well researched comment. 👍
I live in Australia, I don't know anyone who goes to church and I've only ever been to weddings and funerals. I think that's the only real reason churches are ever open anymore. I can't remember ever seeing someone walking about with a Bible, or prayer book and it isn't taught in schools as far as I can remember, but I'm in my seventies now. While I'm sure there probably are religious people here, they are few and far between compared to the USA.
Man, I wish I lived there, the south in the USA sux.
That's why Ken ham had to come here to the US.
My wife is Australian from Melbourne. I've met, spent time with her many relatives and played golf with several.....ALL non-religious.
I grew up in New Zealand in completely secular surroundings, like you I hardly knew anyone who went to church (one of my aunts married a Catholic and took up the church bigtime) and I am eternally grateful that I don't carry religion's biased and bigoted views around with me. When I emigrated to Canada in my 20's (a long time ago) I was amazed to find people who actually went to church, although that has changed significantly now.
Things have changed then. When I was growing up there state/public schools had regular RE classes, said the lord's prayer at assembly. did nativity plays, attended several church services each year, and so on. The C of E was definitely established.
Some of the worst people I've met are religious. All in the name of religion.
My parents use to tell me the more religious a person is the worse they are lol
Better a skatepark than a house of child sex abuse.
Father Chester the altar boy molester disagrees.
Modernization doesn't mean knowledge. The US is a modern country, but in most of the southern states people are very ignorant 😢
Not only the south, but almost all of rural and small town America.
Probably why religion has a stronghold there at least for the moment
I live in Missihippi, the most religious, obese, ignorant state in the country, serenity now, serenity now.
Religion keeps them ignorant. Homeschooling and religious schools: in theory should teach science but in practice often they teach creationism and science denialism.
Many Americans have displayed the uncanny ability to remain ignorant despite modernization. This is no doubt partially due to the assistance of Christian Nationalist organizations affecting politics...
Critical thinking, 2 words and 100% the reason why religion is reducing
Critical thinking and the proliferation of information.
👍
@@TheTruthKiwi👍 Thank god for the internet!!😊
@@GlowingMpd amen my dude 😁
Keep telling yourself that. Biggest movement today is people who do not care and believe nothing at all..lots of low educated non critical people among those. Also ''critical thinking'' that is relative. You likely mean people who declared themselves being intellectually critical.,,like you and your ''100% reason'' non critical observation right here.
i think the biggest sucky part of secularization is it has led to individualization. Like reasons for communities to get together and have community are also declining. As a kid Sunday school and church service (mainly the potluck style meal after) was where people came and checked in at the end of the week. A lot of my elementary school friends ended up going to different middle and high schools so we usually could look forward to seeing each other at church on Sunday. But as a queer kid, I did hate the church in the end for basically making me feel like I was destined to hellfire for the thing I couldn’t control. To the point I was a hige homophobe for several years fighting my own identity. I wasn’t even a wild child and didn’t date in High School but for simply being attracted to girls instead of boys I was evil. That made no sense to me. That being said, I still miss the community of it and would love to have something like that again untied from the religious dogma of it all.
Religion doesn't have much of a purpose in modern day society; it does mean a lot to many people and that's valid, however this is changing very rapidly compared to the past. Society will always be evolving
Not sure where you get that from. ''evolving'' as it is is people believing nothing no more that is another word for apathy with civilisation going downhill. Have fun in your fantasy world.
The irony of the subject of "Evolution" and Religion's disdain for it is now on another level because it can't adapt.
@@AdmiralBisonYup. Isn’t it funny how their views try to change and contort based on new evidence coming out? They went from: God created everything, 6000 years ago, and made all animals as they are today. Then, evolution comes around: Well, maybe god INFLUENCED evolution, and the world is actually a bit older than 6000 years despite what the bible claims. And yet still, i’ll see religious fanatics claim evolution doesn’t exist at all! It’s mind boggling how many hoops they jump through to avoid facts.
@@tukayz254 this comment is so ignorant of the impacts of other religions and cultures
@@tukayz254 no it's not idiot
When someone tells me to ignore science… I just laugh and go on with my life. There is a seeker (sucker) born every minute.
Tell them to ignore traffic signals and let their god keep them safe
One of the problems is that there is also too much pseudo-scientific quackery masquerading as science.
@@MorbidEelYes, the average "science lover" is not skeptical enough or doesn't understand the mathematical tools used in studies (not rarely, scientists are just wrong on their conclusions because they don't have sufficient data (something that happens a lot in socio and bio related fields))
I don't ignore science but I also don't ignore history his story either.
@@nikolas4347Yeah, same problem. I kinda need to be skeptical and check things myself but I don't have enough competence, time or money to actually read full scientific papers about everything that's interesting to me. There are journalists and science communicators who I can trust right? Until they make mistakes or do something controversial or just lie. So in the end I can't check information myself nor trust people who understand it. Just awesome (
Most people go to church once in a while for the social structure. They want to belong to a group of family and friends.
They want to show off their new, expensive threads. They want to be *better* than you.
Why not join a book club? D&D group? We don’t need churches to have a community.
True!
No, not most. And MOST churches' social structure is toxic. Hierarchical, patriarchal, and entrenched.
@@88maromeI think you put your finger on the core reason religiosity is declining. For much of human history, worship is what kept the community together. The more modern a country is, the less this is true.
Atheism and organized religion aren't our two only choices. My wife and I live in a (relatively) liberal city, and most of our friends and acquaintances have been "spiritual but not religious" and/or have otherwise embraced some abstract versions of deism, paganism, Buddhism, etc. But that's the beauty of living in secular society: choosing what you believe or not, without anybody giving you sh*t for it!
Yup! I’d love for our society to be more accepting of secular values, as the founding fathers intended, alas religion (mainly christianity) has snaked its way into the government and politics. In the south, it’s so prevalent that it’s nearly illegal for an atheist to run as a government official in those states. Due to the constitution, it wouldn’t be legal to enforce such a law, but the sheer numbers of dense areas of religious groups is far too vast to let that slide. They’d never be voted into office, just for their personal beliefs.
@@dryfox11 I'm sure there have been quite a few "closet atheists" who've gotten voted into various offices in the South!
Seeing more and more people in the world leaving supernatural and magical forms of thinking give me immense hope, even though the backlash from reactionary types who want society to remain constrained by religion has grew increasingly rabid in their desperation.
😂
Yes, my cellphone works thanks to unicorns😂
no, thanks to Big Bang
Lol praise the unicorn!
@@matterasmachineThat's what the unicorn's wife calls him!
@@matterasmachine You're absolutely correct. A small amount of lithium was created during the Big Bang (although mainly hydrogen and helium), and lithium is used in the batteries that power cellphones. 🤓
@DonoVideoProductions hey now, don't associate partners with the unicorn. There is only one unicorn and we are messengers.
This is Great News. But it's not happening fast enough.
I think a vast majority of US "Christians" are what I call Christmas Christians, or even Census Christians. They do the minimum to give a nod to their supposed religion because it's expected and makes for a quiet life, but they don't believe that snakes and donkeys talk, or that virgins can get pregnant. and dead people come back to life. That was true in the UK. but now most people don't even see the need to give a nod to religion, so they don't.
increasing the rate of declne in religion has to be done artificially which can lead to ethical problems. Better to make sure knowledge is available to everyone and let the individual decide whether to leave to stay in a religion
@@Player-pj9kt I think the rate of decline will increase naturally, no need to artificially boost it by, what? Burning bibles and knocking down churches? I think religion is already doing a great job of showing why it doesn't help or fix or explain anything.
Especially in the southern states, gawd has his hooks in them pretty deep.
If you really want to get ridvof religion, you need to take a play from hitlers playbook. He managed to get rid of more theists than almost anybody.
Never trust a religious leader who tells you how to vote or a politician who tells you how to pray
Control its always about that with those two
I am an Atheist from a deeply Christian family from India. One of the biggest difference that the current generation and the previous gen is access to divergent views on religion, metaphysical, logic and philosophy.
I made the mistake of ACTUALLY reading the Bible. That led to my deconversion, there was no possible way that was anything other than the rantings of Bronze-Age humans.
The bronze-age stories were better written. Homer etc.
Interesting. I read it and it made Christ more real and the local church more corrupt.
@@jonyoung6405 Can you tell me 'how' you established that any of the words and events 'attributed' to Jesus in the Bible were 'actually' spoken and performed by Jesus himself and 'how' you know that they were 'not' just made up by the book's authors when they were written many decades after that 'alleged' events?
@@sulas548 I was sharing "my experience". You can try for yourself.
@@jonyoung6405 I have also read the Bible and I found it abhorrent, boring, contradictory and absurd. I will concede that there are a few verses that tell you how to be a good person but there is no way to attribute those to the person referred to as Jesus and most of that advice can also be found in the teachings of Buddha from 500 years earlier so nothing new or special.
Look, I don't like the idea of some guy I never met dying for my sins I never committed since I wasn't even born. To be expected to prepare for his magical return and live accordingly is just goofy. I never asked for the guy to die for me, and I don't like a god creator that could just throw me away into a pit of fire if I'm not exactly to his liking. That's not love, and it doesn't even makes sense. It's impossible to take it any more seriously than a bedtime story for naughty kids.
Nicely put!👍🏼
_"The story of the redemption will not stand examination. That man should redeem himself from the sin of eating an apple by committing a murder on Jesus Christ, is the strangest system of religion ever set up."_ *- Thomas Paine - Age of Reason (1794)*
A parent wouldn’t even be that cruel to children.
@@MrBugPop.... if the parent decides not to terminate it.
@@gregsanich5183 That sounds like the way of the gods…Termination when the creation displeases. 😕
This is one of the most encouraging vids I've seen for a long time demonstrating that when given a suitably neutral environment people will choose reason-based explanations.
Exactly. But such environments are plagued by "group think", individual agendas, or people seeking control and power over others. If I can get you to pay TITHING, I can make a cool percentage, yes? 😂 It's crazy how bloody wealthy some of these psychotic organizations have become. Seriously, look up their yearly profits (not "prophets", mind you, lol). 🤪 💰💰💰
The problem is ensuring that "suitably neutral environment." There seems to be something in the human brain -- perhaps it's a desire to relinquish personal responsibility -- that wants to BELIEVE. And anyone with sufficient power or wealth or charisma can and will exploit that. Religion per se is not the problem. The impulse to believe is. Rational thinking will be vulnerable until we address THAT rather than contesting the religions themselves.
@@pricklypear7516 It is indeed an ongoing and serious problem fighting to promote and sustain a "suitably neutral environment’ because there are long established and powerful interests militating against it. However the impulse to believe in and of itself is not the problem. The impulse to believe is a natural consequence of our being innately inquisitive and as such seeking an understanding of our world as a foundation for belief about it. Human history is grounded in the myopia of anthropocentric fuelled ignorance so it was inevitable the natural impulse for explanatory belief would have resulted in positing anthropomorphic agency. The problem facing people today is deciding what beliefs are actually warranted without consideration of conformance with or subjugation to any long standing, widely held or deeply entrenched beliefs. The basis for deciding should be grounded in objective evaluation of evidence-based rational thinking. This approach exposes religious belief as unwarranted but most lack the courage and honesty to entertain this approach. Therefore they respond to any challenge about the credibility of their belief by relying on the logical fallacy of confirmation bias where the starting point is the pre-existing belief masquerading as the conclusion. Religious belief is a symptom and manifestation of failure to discern justifiable from unjustifiable belief. Religious belief is predicated on appeal to three biologically grounded primal psychological drivers: survival, belonging and explanation. Shortly after birth the most immediate and dominating driver is basic survival that keeps us breathing. The second is manifested in the comforting and reassuring contact with the mother. The third however develops in slower stages in a primitive way a little later and therefore is easily dominated by the more intense and pre-existing psychological drivers of survival and comfort. Religious belief sates the first in its claim to finesses physical death by relegating it into a transition from a physical state of existence to an ethereal state of existence thereby assuring personal identity survival. Religious belief also provides the comforting and reassuring positing of god as a super-parent father figure serving the role that the biological father would have done during childhood. It is somewhat ironic that the last of the three stages of wanting explanation is misused to justify sating the first two accomplished through abstract inventions of the concepts of soul and god. While the first two drivers remain strong and permanent throughout life the third varies in individuals because its can easily be displaced by pursuit of personal and material enhancement constituting an end in itself without needing or wanting any further explanatory foundation. However for those still craving further explanation religious belief can provide it. But with the advances in scientific understanding and wider options for access to educational and informational resources it has become increasingly clear that the explanation provided by religion is simply not credible. And with the expansion of ‘suitably neutral environments’ this conclusion will continue to spread. Those invested in traditional paradigms of religious belief resist this trend because it generates fear in undermining the comfort and security of their own personal identity offered by religious belief. There are also long established cultural and political institutional structures that exploit this fear to maintain and promote their own existence. Those invested in these resist ‘suitably neutral environments’ because they know the such environments will lead to the inevitable result of undermining the credibility and desirability of their own interests. So the challenge is to promote and nurture 'suitable neutral environments' wherever and however we can. This will increase and enhance the opportunity for people to form beliefs about the world guided by reason applied to objective evaluation of evidence. Responding to this challenge will enable more and more people to free themselves from the intellectual and psychological shackles of dependencies on those various ancient mythologies that still permeate cultures today.
It amazes me it's not dying out quicker, sooner we start valuing facts over fiction they better for us all as a species
Organized religion and manmade religious rules are dying out and in its place a personal spiritualism is forming in its stead. I'm all for spiritualism and people keeping that stuff to themselves or sharing it amongst their small group of friends and family. I don't need some pope or priest thousands of miles away in some other country telling me how to live my life. F that!
That is not true. It is people who believe nothing and do not care at all about believing anything. That is not personal spitituality that is apathy.
@@fortynine3225 You don't have to believe in a magic sky daddy in order to believe in something. Lots of people believe in things that do no require a belief in the divine.
@@histman3133 Like i stated and there are studies that confirm this..biggest growth is among people who believe nothing at all. Also ''magic sky daddy'' at its core is about the question if there is some sort of natural world intelligence in control. Which is a legitimate question. But i guess that is over your head.
@@histman3133Exactly. Sun's there with or without prayer. Took humanity a while to realise that but thankfully we seem to be over sacrificing people.... For now 😂
@@histman3133 It's not a belief over a sky daddy. I became Christian because I want to struggle to be a full person.
My grandmother was a deeply religious woman. She was born in 1911. When I was born, she had been retired for years. She didn't do escalators, elevators, or planes. She believed they were the work of the devil. I sometimes wonder what she would have said about smartphones. (Mama Boucher voice: That foos-ball ain't nothing but the devil). 😂
Imagine you showed her ChatGPT 🤣
@@Player-pj9kt I'm not religious, and I'm scared of ChatGTP! But I don't think it's the work of the devil -- just of thieving prejudiced human beings.
@@sundayoliver3147that's a fair point. I recently saw a video of reserachers using AI to visualize dreams. the scary thing is that AI could be used to read minds in the future. Privacy is probably the biggest concern with AI
@@Player-pj9ktprivacy is like the lesser of the concerns. 80% of jobs will be replaced by AI in a very short period of time, not enough for people to learn new relevant skills. Not to mention what AI can do regarding politics, biological weapons, military strategy and cyber attacks. I guess privacy isn't very important for someone who doesn't have anything to eat.
@@tafdiz Then they'll release the bioweapons and depopulate so the elites can have their paradise, world is going to be interesting
As an Atheist, I’m so happy this happening! Hopefully religion in Mexico, which is where my parents are from, also plummets! Personally, I see Catholicism and Christianity as a colonial thing from Spain
With regard to the demise of religious buildings, remember that the original Christian churches were built on the Roman basilica model, which was indeed a secular building. Nothing wrong with bell towers, nothing wrong with special spires (except that they often "point" unfortunately to "heaven"). But those buildings that are so specialized that it's impossible to repurpose them to truly cool secular purposes (concert halls, meeting places, social assistance palaces, and so on) are why they become skate parks. So, look at the building in question. determine its model and floor plan. If it looks more like a Roman basilica or forum, it's got a chance of being "great again". But if it can't look like anything but a holy place, well, it's gonna be a roller rink, storage barn, or even a quarry.
I wish our society was further along in its secularization and modernization. I just wish I lived in a world where people didn’t believe so many untrue things and didn’t forward those untrue beliefs
I live in switzerland and I think we are a tipping point where real life (beyond internet) doesnt have to deal with that religious BS
the trouble is christianity is less dangerous than islam ...we must hope islam goes the same way but i fear its growing
And the lead trophy for "most Stateside comment on the video" goes to@paulrichards6894
@@seand.g423 you think christianity is more dangerous than islam WOW
@@seand.g423 i rate christianity both dangerous and nonsense and i see the decline but my point is i wish lslam was also on the wane but sadly i dont think it is
If you think about it, a person who believes in a gawd is either ignorant or dishonest. Stupid is dangerous, and lying is premeditated. The person who chooses to lie is even more frightening than the dangerous.
Im curious what brings you to this conclusion exactly. What knowledge or understanding precisely would a person need to be ignorant of, in order to subscribe to the belief in a creator?
There is good money to be made in religious nut baggery.
There are over 800 churches in Rome that have been closed for the last 20+ years … a step in the right direction. Now for the Evangelical churches!!
They're starting to close down in Malta too. Let's not forget that the unofficial civil war between the clerical church and the rest is still not taught to kids outside of university. Churches are not closing down as much as Rome (understandble) and America (so the Mormon and Evangelist money go where?) but vocation is at an all time low because the current church is stuck in 2005.
The idea of a Catholic Church, a locus of human oppression and arbitrary authority, would be transformed into a skatepark, a locus of human freedom and frustration to authority, is just absolutely amazing.
It's pretty simple. Religion can only survive if you can keep the younger generation from realizing that there are good and decent people who don't believe. In modern society it's impossible to keep that knowledge away from them. With modern technology it's easy to talk with people all over the world who don't share your beliefs.
I was a pastor in a Baptist congregation and travelled to Mexico City for missions work. The sights and sounds and contrasts in one of the "lost cities" was all I needed to get the wheels spinning. Reading Hitchens, Dawkins and Templeton expedited the process. Amen
Once the internet arrived and allowed people to question the issues with religions and directly challenge religion on a large scale without the fear of negative stigmas it was all over. No longer were people living in bubbles they could see the truths firsthand.
True. Christians who have gone online to debate non-believers have gotten their butts handed to them. I realized the Bible was nonsensical before the internet, when I was about 12. I lived in a community where all the girls I liked were unquestioning church-goers, and most adults took grave offense when you expressed any doubts about Christianity. Nobody can make me believe it's a force for good, let alone that it's true.
Back at the height of the 'new atheism' fad we used to talk about religion and the Shield of Taboo. Religious ideas couldn't be challenged because they were protected - even in countries where it wasn't an outright crime to question the dominant religion, doing so can still result in informal punishments and isolation. It's something people learn as children - if you ask disrespectful questions about God then you don't get answers, you get a clip round the ear and your parents telling you to stop blaspheming. It puts religion outside the scope of debate and reason. That's why we used to be so aggressive in mockery of religion - treating the subject with utter disrespect and irreverence is a way to weaken that shield.
I think about how popular the atheism subreddit is.
It is long past time that humanity moves beyond the delusional belief in myth, superstition and the super natural which is the basis for ALL religions. The enlightenment was over 200 years ago. It is about time more people started to embrace it because so much of humanity's misery is a direct result of religious belief
It always are those in power, who are hardcore materialists may it be kings, dictators or chosen leaders, that are responsible for all misery in the world. So if you want someone to blame for all misery blame materialism. Saying we should get rid of anything non material because you believe it is all nonsense is as dumb as it gets.
Extreme atheism can cause misery for humanity as well.
I was raised as a Christian Scientist. I was self liberated by the age of 12. The central premise of that theology is that matter is not real. That our true nature was spiritual and incorporeal and perfect. Like a disembodied spirit. Okay, so how did we get trapped in this material form? If our true nature is perfect and eternal, why are all of us stuck in this earthly plane? I like having a physical form. Life is interesting because it’s unpredictable and not perfect. Because actions and choices have consequences, that gives meaning to life. That’s why utopias are not real, because they’re boring.
I was born as a human, brought up by hindu parents, developed my critical thinking and chose to be atheist
Thanks for this video. Very very informative, and well done
If you were able to watch every minute of US broadcast primetime television over the last 70 years, you'd know we were already secular and have been for most if not all of your life. Depictions of religious topics in American pop culture are exceedingly rare.
Hmmm, I'm not sure that's totally correct. Here in New Zealand we get a lot of British and American programming and I can definitely say that there aren't many depictions of religious topics on British television and if there are they are usually mocking it. The American media seems to take it more seriously and in film and television I've noticed that they use the plot point of someone being christian to mean they've "come good" or are a "good person." I'm pretty sure that has either influenced the culture or is an influence of the religious mindset in America.
@@TheTruthKiwi Not saying they don't try, but when you compare ratings or box office, the religious right gets steamrolled every time by non-religious content. Other than Passion of the Christ, name a religious movie that made over $200 million in the last 50 years.
@@VulcanLogic Ok, I thought we were talking about television and general broadcast media, not specifically movies that made over $200 mill but ok I see your point, Americans aren't really keen to watch a movie or show specifically about religion but they do try to sneak it in as you say.
Tell that to the Evangelists
Among the peculiar paradoxes in US culture is the juxtaposition of the training in school to be an individual, to work hard, to do your own work - we are trained to function individually and depend upon our own abilities and effort 5 days a week. Then 1 day a week we are told that we are broken, unable to solve our own problems, and need someone to save us. Cognitive dissonance. For those who feel the cognitive dissonance, the requirement to get money to feed ourselves tips that uneven balance between independence and dependence.
We must leave the security of stories that tell us all will be taken care of by something greater than us - to a place where we accept the realization of our own responsibility to achieve the greatness we seek by both taking care of ourselves but ALSO taking care of those around us. We must grow up and stop pretending we are just along for the ride.
As congregations diminish, only the nutjobs will remain. We're seeing that now in the U.S.
My main fear is that if the dumbing down process continues, this trend will reverse.
Religion is good for the spiritual, community side of humanity. We are tribal as a species it's normal. Doing this sh** for sports, territory and politics everyday and killing people for it? F*** that nonsense. Keep your religion to yourself.
Me and my friends in year 3 (6/7 years old) in school were talking about if we thought god existed. We very quickly thought it sounded funny that there was a man in the sky and said no we dont belive it.
Good video. Thanks. Speaking as a clergyman, I appreciate secular societies - I happily grew up in one, and think a constitutional democracy is the only place where religion can legitimately live. I like the speaker’s separation of religious belief from religiosity. BTW: I’m sorry to report that Skate Liborius caught fire last summer and is pretty much gutted. (No comment on secularism intended; just a news item.)
Churches converted into skateboarding parks? 🤭 That's rad, dude! 👌🏻🛹
we have a show in the UK called homes under the hammer....its a show where people buy places cheap do them up to make a profit....church buildings feature more than any other buildings
@@paulrichards6894That's actually really funny😂😂😂
Religion only has questions, it will never offer any answers.
I went to a christian high school and became an atheist. I asked myself, *am I the kind of person who can believe fantastical supernatural stuff simply because I'm told to believe it even though there is not a shred of evidence for it?* I decided I'm a not a person who can be brainwashed into believing nonsense just because some people want me to believe it.
Wonderful video...best news I've heard in a long time. And what a beautiful skate park!
Ryan Cragun has said he occasionally visits a church for the same reason a biologist might visit a zoo. That was years ago and I'm still laughing.
Exactly. No Christians go to a magic show and think actual magic is happening. By definition none of them think ancient Norse or Hindu writings are anything more than stories. But because where they were born, all those expectations go out the window when it comes to Christianity. I don’t get it
That couldn't be more wrong. Now this isn't to say that there aren't a great deal, mabey even the majority of Christians that only believe what they do for social reasons, things like it being what they were raised with, and so on. And have true investigated it fir themselves. But if you are going to believe in Christianity based on what is in the biblical texts as truth , then it requires that you believe that other gods of regions/nations at least used to exist, and preside over different peoples. Now ofcourse they are being falsely worshiped, as there is only one true creator God, but other spiritual beings did exist and were worshiped as gods. In the exodus story, the power of the egyptian pantheon allowed the magicians in pharaohs court to mimic the first three plagues. But after a point their gods could no longer keep up, and could not produce the plagues being brought upon them, not only that, but of the ones they could mimic they only had power to add to the plagues, they could not alleviate them, or make them stop. But the point is that the texts of exodus states that the egyptians had actual supernatural power of some measure granted to them through their gods. And it's just that they could not compete with the actual creator god in terns of power when it came down to it. With stuff like this being in the scriptures, and Christian that actually takes it seriously is forced to conclude that various other gods actually exist/existed, and grant actual power to those nations who served them, meager as it might have been. So various mythologies like Norse, and greek, should be considered to have at least had a chance of being based on an actual supernatural power, or a person/people acting with said supernatural power.
Religous faith isn't declining. In the past they simply 1) had more political power 2) had an easier time converting people who were illiterate and had no access to any knowledge. If you took away those 2 things you would see that only a minority of people truly had faith and the majority were coerced into it, or like animals in a zoo were born into it.
Thank you for posting this!!
Please, revive me. I died after hearing how Czechia was pronounced. It is pronounced like this: Chekia. Not Chechia. My poor beloved homeland.
I have a czech wolf at home
Whether we like multiculturalism or not, the world itself is multicultural. That means no dominant culture can be imposed upon the whole world. If one religion tries to impose its values on everybody, conflict is inevitable. So we need a secular space globally to accommodate multicultural reality. Then because a non religious space has opened up, people leave costly habits and abide permanently in the secular space now that it is here and others are already doing it.
The folk who run Islam have definitely NOT gotten your memo
Wow these are one of the best videos I’ve watched this week. Seriously changed my perspective for the better. Maybe I’ll buy your book 👍🏽
Here is a video review of Ryan's book kzhead.info/sun/haprj6qxeqd4nqs/bejne.html
As a senior citizen (I live in Southern California) some of my beliefs are Agnostic and some are Atheist. I was raised somewhat loosely in the Methodist church but basically abandoned it when I was 15 years old. Sometime in my late 30’s I began reading books about Atheism and they just made so much sense to me. I am glad to see that so many churches are closing and that people are leaving religion in droves. Religion is the source of so much conflict - just look at the Middle East -and it is based on unverifiable tenants. It is basically fairy tales for adults. Even though I am not at all religious I am a good, law abiding citizen who donates regularly to charities and am kind and considerate the the people I interact with. I am also an animal lover who donates monthly to the Humane Society. I even try not to kill insects in my house - instead I trap them in a device I bought from PETA and release them outside. You don’t need to believe in the fairy tales espoused by religion to be a good person.
Thank you for something to think about. It was an interesting talk.
Fun fact 9 out of the top 10 happiest counties are secular
I’m a agnostic but I do believe religion is good for giving a sense of community to people and basic moral principles.
But the moral principles religion gives are terrible. An atheist can have just as good, usually even a better moral framework since it's not tied to the moral opinions of Bronze Age goat herders. You can find community in many places, that's an insufficient reason for keeping religion alive.
Yes but there is a parallel between how peaceful a society is and how atheistic it is.
a gothic church would be great for a haunted mansion during halloween
People are innately gullible, especially when young. And we tend to stick to ideas despite of evidence, partly due to sunk costs.
True. Nobody would believe stories like Adam and Eve if they hadn't heard them in childhood.
Started with a curiosity about why people are religious at an early age but no easy answers (and no internet), later went to a religious summer camp and after being approached with a "way out of hell" decided that Pascal's Wager made sense (I was too young to have heard of it, but basically you accept religion because if they are right and you are with them, the rewards are good, but if they are wrong, you lived a good life anyway (look it up). Later, learned far more about how religion is used as a control by the powerful, and had trouble holding onto faith, particularly as the various obvious issues came up (why do gods hate gay people, how do we know which god/faith is correct, why does it cause so many wars, why doesn't god care, etc). Told to read the bible. Within weeks of studying it, it was more clear than ever that it was written as a control of people. The red pill had been taken - I woke up and have been disgusted with religion ever since. It robs people of their own ability to reason, it permits control of vast swaths of society, it encourages selfishness and fatalism - particularly in the world's future (try Religulous movie), it causes people to reject science and proof, gives excuses for war, hatred, tribalism, and atrocities against individuals and groups of individuals. It spreads like a virus, beginning with children and must be escaped like a bear trap. The sooner it is a curious historical oddity, the better we will be - but, we will also have to learn to live like humans with each other. Religion is part of the reason for all of these things, the other is humanity has a VERY, VERY long way to grow up from this point. Hopefully, we and future generations figure it out.
A church in Houston that closed in the 1970s was turned into a gay bar/disco called The Sanctuary. There was another gay bar that had been a bank that was called The Depository.
When i was 10 I and many other children were invited to a magic show preformed at a church. Sweets were offered and we gathered in the pews with our parents to watch. It was nothing a small trick with a dove in a box. Right after that they shut the doors, dimmed the lights and dropped a 45 minute sermon about the horrific agony of hell. The plan was to scare kids into dragging their parents to church, it was the opposite with me I was terrified of church for most of my young life and would bounce from a panic attack to a full blown meltdown if the possibility of going to one came up. I saw them as houses of lies and fear. Until I was an adult an gotten over that fear did I attend a mega church I saw hundreds of people hanging on every word as he asked for ludicrous amounts of money decked out in Burberry and driving an escalade. My taste on religion fully soured at that point and I never looked back.
Education and knowledge is the reason. One could even say reason is the reason. Its not surprise that Christianitys nonsense is going backwards in educated countries.
Any sane person who reads the bible on his own will become an Atheist.
So, after 100 years, this church converted to skate park finally has some useful role in society. Better late then never.