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Chael Sonnen discusses who would win in a fight between a wrestler and BJJ fighter on this episode of Beyond the Fight.
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LOSE WEIGHT NOW! www.amazon.com/Four-Pack-Revo...
Chael Sonnen discusses who would win in a fight between a wrestler and BJJ fighter on this episode of Beyond the Fight.
Click here to subscribe - kzhead.info...
I saw an example where a wrestler won 4 and 3/4 rounds before loosing the fight.
Well, the wrestler only lost because he thought if you tapped it meant he just lost that round
It might of been loose but did he win?
The first wrestler to lose a fight and still be undefeated
Kurt Franklin no one cares what you saw 99 percent the time wrestler and boxer wins
paulie sarachelli way to pull an arbitrary number out of your butt.
Me: BJJ Uncle chael: Wrestling Me: Wrestling Uncle chael: WWE Wrestling. Me: Okay great
If uncle chael says wing Chun is the best martial art then it is
Wrestling combined with Jiu-Jitsu is the ultimate form of grappling. Differences aside Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Wrestling can complement each other quite well. And both wrestlers and BJJ practitioners can benefit by cross training.
what about judo throws?
Wrestling + judo is a better combination
Don't forget Judo
At least where I'm from, there are gymps popping up that teach "grappling"
@@billcipher3946 no, you don't know how to submit someone without bjj
Bottom line is...Chael always wins.
Tell Anderson
@@brianfinnegan664 that was a robbery, Chael obviously won the first four rounds
@@ruudvangorilla3221 agreed. Jiu-jitsu won in the end
Idk bout that, bitch ass tito tapped him out
Eren Joestar what do u mean it was a “robbery” ur boy tapped
isolated bjj is better, but i think wrestling dominant with some bjj is better then bjj dominant with some wrestling in mma. starting in a dominant position with 2-3 min left in a round will almost always give you the round.
Tell that to Kevin Lee
@@Cdixonmma Kevin was tired and never should have done that single leg from the front. At least he could have turned the corner with that SL, but he just put his neck into that choke. He''ll learn.
Docinaplane he was tired from defending submission after submission for 3 rounds
Connor Dixon Kevin “And I clearly felt a tap” Lee
Wrestling may not be known as a martial art but it is known as a combat sport. Kung Fu is consider a martial art but not a combat sport. See what getting at?
Chael: Want to hear a joke? Us: Yes please! Chael: So, Rehonna, Ya-Rear and Gats-telum walk into a Mooey Tai gym....
Ok great
...and eat brekfrast
In walks Kamara Usman. Kamara sits down, puts a pot of stew out and says "I offer you this."
They all came on a horse
muay thai*
Bas Rutten once remarked that the reason the UFC removed Headbutts was because wrestlers were becoming TOO dominate, they solved the bjj ground game, with ground n pound, and headbutts. Take down, headbutt, destroy. Mark Kerr, Mark Coleman, Randleman et al. Elbows and knees are far more brutal than a headbutt, so it was never about a physical concern......
The only way the current wrestling techniques won't work is if striking the back of the torso is not illegal. Even then I'd bet people would find a way to take their opponents to the ground.
Or back to the head
They started doing well not because of td headbutt and destroy....They started learning JIu Jitsu at least to understand how to counter Jiu Jitu techniques....which means they were not our wresters anymore. By that time, they were already Mixed Martial Artists with strong wrestling. With zero knowledge about Jiu Jitsu, pure wrestlers would most likely get submitted in MMA fights. Do you even train bro?
The other thing is what does "wrestling" mean? Everybody talks about MMA being "brand new" but actually catch wrestling and submission wrestling go back a very long time, as do style vs style fights (wrestlers vs judokans, etc.). Most of the lutre livre "anything goes" stuff in Brazil that wasn't part of the Gracie family was largely based on submission wrestling and judo/Japanese jujitsu. Ken Shamrock in UFC 1 was a shoot wrestler and, even though he was submitted with Royce's gi, got the dominant position. So Chael is just talking about "modern sport freestyle wrestling." Either way it's all just grappling.
It was a physical and political concern. Too many broken facial bones and congress was attempting to ban MMA.
If you consider the difficulty in acquiring the skills between the sports it becomes a different conversation. An elite wrestler who train for few months of BJJ can do enough to avoid submissions, but it is nearly impossible for an elite BJJ grappler to have the same success in wrestling. Ultimately someone who can control where the fight goes and get by without being submitted has much higher chance of winning the fight. This is clearly evident when you examine most dominant fighters/champs come from a wrestling background
Nah just because you know what’s coming it doesn’t always mean you can do anything about it, I always know what my bjj coach will do but it doesn’t mean I can stop him, another example is khabib, everyone always knew what he was gonna do and no one could ever stop him, knowing how to stop a submission doesn’t know you can actually stop it
@@danila4322 You didn’t even read.
I mean the champ of the most stacked division right now has the most submissions in the ufc and is crazy good at bjj charles oliveira
Oliveira vs Khabib
Bjj is devastating If you're a very good bjj fighter a wrestler wont work on the ground. Too risky. After that, you have to improve your boxing and your takedown If you're a good bjj fighter, kicking u will be risky too
Wrestling will for 5 rounds 3 minutes and 9 seconds
😂😂😂
Chael Sonnen vs Anderson Silva. The first fight between them shows you the abilities of wrestling vs Jiujitsu in MMA & what happens when the other is unaware or lacks experience of their opponents different grappling art.
Their second fight is a much better example of that. After that fight, Anderson went straight to the gym, and for 2 weeks straight he only worked on how to avoid and counter against spinning elbows
Chael realized that anderson would be better for the face of the ufc, so he left himself open for the triangle. He knew what he was doing
Rett Rizzo what???😭
I agree!
Chael lost a ton of fights to armbars and triangles while he was on top lol
The Winner is usually the one that makes the least amount of mistakes.
Nope, the jiu-jitsu guy will win
Itd be a mistake to not know jiu jitsu
Pretty much
Senor Captain Obvious
Or the most amt of money
As a guy who has wrestled for over 30 years school boy and college and coaching, and for the last 2 years BJJ i can say was humbled. Now that said, I do win on my feet even with brown belts, they don't like when I get a wrist with both of my hands. It ends up being a stalemate, but I lose far more than I win. On the upside I am getting better, and my wrestling background has certainly helped.
Now imagine mma not grappling
@@brentunderwood9698 I have done a little bit of it, but I'm old as hell and well MMA is a young mans game. I did get to "spar" if you want to call me never even making contact with Toka Kahn and it was embarrassing how slow I was/am.
If it was a wrestling match it wouldn’t even be close - but a wrestler can make an mma style match hard for BJJ athlete
Wow incredible statement. Thank for your honesty. I've been practicing BJJ for around a year, and when a new white belt beats me I always ask if they were a wrestler. If they were, I think okay, you're not really a white belt then.
Thats BJJ rules though. Its a bit different when you're allowed to take someone down and then smesh them in the face.
A wrestler who understands Jiujitsu wins!
Yes
100%
How about a Jiu Jitsu guy who understands wrestling. It goes both ways I bet
@@ZZonextremeify no it don’t. Wrestling is a much better base to have than bjj. Generally, a bjj guy will only hope to capitalize on a wrestlers inexperience. Just look a Brock vs frank mir 1 and 2. First fight, Brock didn’t know shit about bjj and got caught. Second fight, he learned some shit and fucked him up with wrestling
@@dirty_danxx nope dude Bjj needs more concentration and is more difficult to understand A bjj guy can learn wrestling much faster
Bjj may beat wrestling of just pure forms going at it but there's no denying that a ton of the top fighters come from wrestling backgrounds.
Been waiting so long for this video
Thank you, Mr. Sonnen. What a great insight you have given us!!!
A wrestler fighter who knows BJJ beat a BJJ fighter who knows wrestling, in most cases in MMA. In the last seven years, almost every champion in the UFC came from wrestling: Usman, Jon Jones, Khabib DC, Stipe Miocic, Tyron Woodley...
Bjj fighter who know how to gouge eyes and bite balls will beat wrestler who knows bjj. Or street fighter with gun will beat all of the above. lol
ben askren vs demian maia? 🤔 As much as ppl like to sht on Askren, he had one of the best wrestling in MMA during his prime
charles do bronx >>>
@@brenojunqueira4037 Khabib>>>Charles
@@billcipher3946 Never
Kevin Lee didn’t tap
he did
🤣🤣🤣
Polar Saxon no shit bro I’m fuckin around lol he tapped, blacked out, came to, and didn’t realize he tapped so naturally went to take position once he saw Oliveira lol
But the question is where does Kevin Lee fit in all this
I see some holes in his brain
If we're talking taking the opponent down/neutral position, then wrestling wins. If we're talking top position/submissions, then bjj wins. If we're talking the entire match, then Chael wins
Top position wrestling definitely wins. Having trained jits for like 3-4 years its pretty obvious that in an MMA fight trying to do jiujitsu can get your ass kicked and you can take a lot of damage. However, if you don't have jiujitsu, you're absolutely fucked.
@@glitchdiggerThat's why I often say that the judo fighters in MMA often have mixed success depending on the fighter. Judo with another striking MA, like Muay Thai or karate, can be very deadly combinations. My Shotokan and judo makes for me not fearing many in unarmed fighting situations.
BJJ wins. we already seen this with EASE as ufc 1. The thing is now wrestlers train bjj with their wretling and call it wrestling. So now days wrestlers know bjj and say its wrestling so the wrestling of "now" which knows how to defend triangles leg locks etc then wrestling is better. But in reality its wrestling+bjj for just wrestling now.
Well jadonplox said it best
jadonplox that’s a very good point you’re right. This should have a bunch of likes.
People keep going on and on about ufc1! Explain to me why th3 gracies never went to the kodokan in japan or the u of iowa with all that dojo storming shit they were doing it bjj beats all, especially back then?! Why were they so hell bent on beating sakuraba who knew catch wrestling at the time?! Then there's igor vovchancyn who beat one of renzo's black belts in '94, back to back, at a time when he knew only kickboxing! Seriously, i don't know why people think 20+ year old data is still relevant (before one even goes into the questionable ways said data came about), meaning a lot of suspicious shit happened in ufc1!
@@TENNSUMITSUMA You are talking about legitimate olympic wrestlers like dan severn or Ken shamrock who weighed more than 100 pounds than royce who lost... its very clear.
With that logic: so judo wins but now bjj knows kosen judo...
Wrestling has been watered down through time to make the sport it is today. However, in it's inception, It was very much a martial art, had submissions, throws, take downs, and the like. It would be interesting to see how a Roman gladiator in his prime would fair against Royce Gracie in his prime. Kimura or Double Wristlock? Which came first?
@Ante D Yup! Exactly what I was referring to. Catch as catch can was taught in the late 1800s and early 1900s and at some point, Japanese were trained and called their art Judokan Jiu Jitsu. Even that split in two forming Judo and Jiu Jitsu with Korea and other Japanese taking Jiu Jitsu (Catch) wrist locks and calling them Hap Ki Do and Ai Ki Do. Too tired now to look up all the players for all this but Yes, catch wrestling is a fantastic martial art. I do like BJJ as well for the cloth chokes, loop chokes, and what not because should you need it for self defense, most people in the street will have some type of clothing on.
That really depends where you do wrestling. On my wrestling team we did learn a lot of jiu Jitsu and judo but we used the submissions to pass to a dominant position. A lot of catch wrestling techniques are still taught today but with a different purpose. I made a lot of kids tap on open mat night and would laugh because there was no tapping. (I also did that while being nice physically)
You’re high…
Brother...if you think wrestling is watered down, you are crazy. Training is absolutely brutal. In fact, wrestling training is as hard as MMA training, it is absolutely brutal and wrestlers are savages. My son plays high school football in Texas and wrestling is much, much tougher.
You could not be more wrong. I wrestled in high school and then in NAGA. My son wrestles in high school now and plays football. It looks like he is making varsity in both as a sophomore. I say this because I can ASSURE you that wresting is NOT watered down. My son will tell you that it is much tougher than football or any of the other martial arts he has trained (and I have trained...BJJ, boxing, MT...boxing and MT are very tough, close to wrestling but wrestling is tougher). You have no idea how tough it is to practice 2-3 brutal hours a day, make weight, and then wrestle 6 matches a week. And these are kids. I sure you, wrestling is not watered down like TKD, Karate, or Kung Fu. There is a reason wrestlers dominate MMA.
What bjj is missing is the wrestling pace and mindset.
Yeah but wrestlers can also lack being able to relax which is a problem with a 30 min 1 round fight which favours the BJJ fighter.
BJJ doesn't have nearly the physicality. The difference between a ju jitsu match and a fight is night and day while wrestling is a fight without punches and kicks. I remember watching a ju jitsu match and they got mad at the guy for being too physical. In wrestling there is head butting, cross facing(basically punching a guy with your fore arm when he shoots a double or when you're on top), and slamming.
@awis linear This is what makes Tatiana Suarez so good. Wrestling is hard sport for girls to get involved in. If they do its usually a situation like Miesha Tate where they to it for fun and there is an open spot. Tatiana was varsity on one of the best high school teams in California which is Northview and she would win most of the matches against dudes.
@Bernie Maybe slamming wasn't the right word but you can lift someone up and take them down in a physical manner. Cross facing was my main example. I saw a guy try to cross face his way out of a submission and the Jiu Jitsu crowd acted like he was trying to murder someone.
@@jacobbarling Khabib disagrees
Candle. This topic needs to be discussed further. So much educational material
Wrestlers with a little striking and a little jujitsu are very dangerous people.
Fedor,khabib,dc,
dc khabiab fedor have a little jujitsu? lmao lol they have great ground games lol they are not wrestlers they are mixed marital artists
@@John2corner yes they have a lot of grounds skills but they are we’ll known for their dominant wrestling.
@@frankslaiter5188 doesnt matter when you are well trained in mma you are a mma fighter. The discussion here is about pure wrestling. Pure wrestling loses to pure jiu jitsu 9 out of 10 as they don't have and that has been proved many times already. Pure wrestling loses to pure Judo too.
@@John2corner I understand what the discussion is I watched the video.. and I never said that wrestling would beat jujitsu because that’s obviously wrong. And yes they are mma fighters you are stating the obvious once again. The point was the guys well known as wrestlers and have good ground game otherwise make the most dangerous guys and the examples given make sense. Here is khabibs fighting style straight from Wikipedia. “Nurmagomedov employs a wrestling-based style of relentless pressure against his opponents, often described as "mauling". Using a variety of wrestling and judo/sambo takedowns, he forces his opponents against the cage, and ties up their legs and an arm to prevent them from escaping.”
Ever since Chael introduced the Applause sign, I find myself clapping before the video starts and then again when it's over.
"the only thing that beats wrestling is jiu jitsu" - truth. Wrestling controls, and nearly everything is nullified by control. A boxer can't punch while he is being controlled. Jiu jitsu is the only thing where you can be dominated and controlled and pull out some weird shit from underneath that turns the tables. Wrestling is superman and jiu jitsu is kryptonite.
Haha wrong. Matt Hughes settled this a long time ago.
When you mix high level wrestling such as college or even Olympic background with a couple years of jiu jitsu everyone will have a hard time with you
Anthony Castle example being: Silva vs Sonnen!
Seeing how Gracie Killer came to be... not always. It's MMA. It all depends on how you mix it up. And there's examples of both sides. Plenty of them. Generalizing like you did is not accurate at all.
@@johng8671 Matt Hughes had to learn Jiu Jitsu. You don't have to be better at Jiu Jitsu to win, but you need to know jiu jitsu to beat a jiu jitsu expert. Unfortunately. I like wrestling better and believe the stronger better guy should win, Jiu Jitsu annoys me but you have to respect it.
these are the best videos...thanks
Props to chael for keeping things moving.
Love the content keep it up ✔️
Kevin Lee sees a hole in this video.
Love the vids chael please never stop talking
Some more comparison videos like this would be really cool.
1 big variable was Royce was wrestling with. Gi and utilizing his Gi as a weapon. When you see wrestlers vs BJJ with no Gi you start seeing in the early days with the rise of people like tito ortiz and randy couture that with wrestling being their dominate style would absolutely destroy world class BJJ artists. Same with Matt Hughes who granted adopted more BJJ with militich started off very heavily reliant on wrestling.
I think wrestling definitely gives you the advantage as far as controlling the ground fight goes, but wrestling has some glaring holes; you really don't get taught real submissions in wrestling, and you're taught NOT too ground and pound, which is something you definitely want to do in a fight. That said, if you can find a MMA school that teaches you high level wrestling and incorporates submissions and ground and pound into that, you will be an unstoppable force on the ground, no doubt about it.
Why do I need to submit you if you can't prevent me from slamming you on your head a dozen times during the match all while I refuse to stay on the ground nor can you force me to the ground. You can sit there on your butt all while I kick your legs until something breaks or you submit to the ever increasing pain and that's without any kicking training that's just normal athletic human swinging a leg in a violent motion. That's the core problem with this argument once you get away from the assumption that both individuals will choose to go to the ground and realize that submission is not the only or even the best means to win the match then the ability to dictate where the fight takes place becomes the trump card. And that trump card is solidly in the hands of the wrestler because most of the techniques they learn and half if not more of their training time is spent working these skills and that is case from 6 year olds to Olympians.
@@chadsamples6178 If anything you just said had any merrit, then everyone in MMA who only has a wrestling background wouldn't suck ass. And yet, everyone who tries MMA with nothing but wrestling training gets their shit pushed in.
@@PotatoeJoe69 Anyone in MMA with only a single area focus already sucks in MMA that's part of what makes it interesting. This conversation is specifically focused on the what if scenario of two athletes who both are single skill focus. We all agree that against people who actually practice MIXED martial arts that the single focused are woefully prepared. But to your point the pure wrestler stands a better chance than pure BJJ as the pure BJJ generally can't force the fight to the ground against the vast majority of opponents and especially against the wrestler. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing BJJ I like the style a great deal. But in MMA while its absolutely king once they into that phase of the fight we must be realistic that other skills are required to force the fight to that stage and wrestling the most common variation of those necessary skill. Judo, Samba, and a couple other very uncommon skills could work as well. But BJJ spends so little time in that area its at best an after thought.
awesome video you deserve more subscribers
That street fight with Rickson Gracie was amazing, I havent seen this fact in brazilian mma media
At my gym we have lot of high school wrestlers. They come in and train with us a lot the first days on the mat is a bit of shock to them unless their smart on mma then they know what's coming. Those that don't have lot of trouble at first. I'm not very big at all I'm about 5'6 around 125 to 130. So I really enjoy rolling with this guys. Not only do I get to test my bjj skills but I get to learn more about real wrestling add more tools to my tool box.
Me too now at 62 my hips don't hop like they use to. I've been wrestling since 71 but I played HS and College hoops 5'6" 135lbs. Still Rocking and rolling.
We got a woman in her early 60s she a beast. Love my gym we are like one big family. Ive been training there over 8 years now haven't seen one fight in the gym. We are all there for one reason that's to make each other better we have sign in are front door that's says leave you're ego out in the parking lot. Lol
Usually comes down to who has better boxing. The wrestler can prevent a bjj practitioner from taking him down (generally speaking). And the BJJ guy has a massive advantage (obviously in submissions if it does go to the ground). The wrestler generally has a power advantage. This is a deep question.
Interesting. More of these please.
Amazing statement Mr Sonnen!
The way I see it, a BJJ guy with no wrestling experience beats a wrestler with no BJJ experience. However, a wrestler with just a bit of BJJ experience will beat a BJJ guy with a bit of wrestling experience. At the end of the day, what made BJJ so effective in the early days of UFC was that element of surprise. People just didn't know how to defend against submissions. But once you get a basic understanding of it, I feel that wrestling ability becomes far more important because it allows you to dictate where the fight goes and to get in the more dominant position where you can inflict a lot of damage, and also win rounds purely for having that more dominant position. This is why submission victories are quite rare these days, especially at the highest levels. And it also why wrestlers are generally the most successful fighters. Don't get me wrong, BJJ is still important. But I think for MMA, wrestling is generally superior.
I def agree. Nowadays with BJJ so widespread most wrestlers can learn basic submissions like a rear naked choke or armbar or kimura pretty easily on their own. And with their superior takedown game and athleticism, wrestlers don't really need much time to level the playing field in MMA anymore. Case in point Bo Nickal
depends what wrestling, greco roman or catch as catch can or freestyle... generally speaking i think wrestling would win because wrestling plus ground and pound will overwhelm most bjj ers.
No it won't.
@@matthewdemello yes it does seems like feelings are hurt.
Thank you! Very interesting)
I would agree with that. Also though, if somebody goes for a takedown, a good counter would be a flying knee. But besides that, nothing else. Wrestling is strong.
People don't seem to get that he was talking about separate sports/rulesets/cultures, the skills are not mutually exclusive. BJJ practitioners use wrestling skills to attain and maintain position all the time, submission wrestlers use BJJ skills all the time. It just so happens that wrestling sports often don't involve submissions, so BJJ practitioners had a head start in MMA.
I don't think bringing up modern MMA fights or competitors is a fair argument. Even though MMA today seems to be "dominated by wrestlers" those are fighters who understand submissions and have their BJJ on point. If you take away their submission understanding COMPLETELY and put them in a cage with 1993 Royce Gracie, they all get strangled on the same night. Chael made a fair point, and you really need to go that far back to get into a pure art vs art argument.
Andrei Gaspar He made the point though that there now five minute rounds now vs a 30 minute one round fight with no breaks which would favour the Jiu Jitsu fighter.
@@jacobbarling how would it favor the jujitsu fighter?!
TENNSUMITSUMA you get stood back up every 5 minutes. Which in Royce’s case would mean a striking battle which a much bigger Severn until it gets to the floor
I think a big part of the wrestler v BJJ thing is that the wrestlers often come from wrestling families. Go through intense training and competition at their school and state level. Resulting in phenomenal athletes rising to the top levels who are experienced in adversity and performing under pressure. I mean scholarships are available. Then you take BJJ only, often if from Brazil they’re from a poorer background , a lot of talent has to drop out because there’s no money and it’s not going to earn them a scholarship. BJJ only is 90% non athletic people who are probably there for that reason. It’ll be interesting to see if someone like Garry Tonon can work on his MMA to a point where is BJJ is a serious weapon. Dillon Danis would’ve been another experiment but his grappling credentials are massively inflated and he’s retarded
If you put any modern MMA fighter in a cage with 93 Gracie and took away all their BJJ, they would stuff all his takedowns and punch him in the face until they won. Pure BJJ people who don't care about anything but winning don't have good takedowns because there's no need for it in BJJ.
Great video
God I love these videos so much
What’s strange about that question. It’s asked all the time
Chael shits out a lot of content just to make a video and stir up discussion. There's often little to no meaning or deeper thought behind it. He probably gets up every day and writes down random made-up opinions on small pieces of paper, shuffles them up in a bowl, and then picks one and does a video about it.
@awis linear Its a good question and youre the moron , weve seen many times bjj vs wrestling and they both win but wrestling usually a bit more
Albanian WarriorBlood wrestlers will always get the takedowns and seem dominant until the later rounds where they get caught in a choke and they black out or tap out tony on the ground vs Justin G no strikes allowed who are you taking ?
@@theanarchy4003 Wrong. A pure wrestler loses to a pure BJJ specialist more often than not. The early UFC days proved this
Both disciplines bring valuable skills to the table. I’ve seen wrestlers do well in BJJ and pick it up quickly. There’s a teenager at my BJJ school that’s trained for years and just started wrestling in high school. He tells me he’s been able to use some BJJ to win wrestling matches. It basically comes down to having unique skills to offer that people are not used to in whatever you are currently doing. Surprising your opponent with something they have not been previously exposed to is usually an advantage. Wrestling are good at control and pace. BJJ players have submissions and are great at positions wrestlers normally avoid.
Wrestling give u some strength and explosivity But on the ground bjj is more complete. Contrôle and submission game, back taking etc.... A good bjj dude will be lot ov dangerous on the ground than an elite wrestler. Just compare Oliveira and chandler as example Khabib was fking good at grappling too and Sambo is well adapted with mma Sambo could is an another form of ground game but very effeciency in mma, more than pure wrestling.
@@kotaiipizza4427 wrestling + judo with 3 BJJ submissions.
@@billcipher3946 sorry mate I didn't understand what u want to tell me ^^ Wrestling is so important but on the ground Sambo and bjj showed how this can be effective... Wrestling isn't really well adapted to mma ON THE GROUND. For sure, in clinch and to take someone down, it's just the best art in my opinion. Better than judo because judo technics are based to be used on a guy that is wearing a gi, so it's harder to use it
History lesson …love these segments.😀
I'm glad these videos have descriptive titles...no way I could keep track of what's Uncle is yelling about.
A japanese named Sakuraba was a free style catch wrestler, but he defeated The Gracies the owner of BJJ.
Thanks
He wasn’t just a wrestler m, he also new Bjj. So your statement is invalid.
@@andresmiguel2573 he used wrestling to defeat their style. His statement is valid.
@@TorahObservantUnitarian He tried a kimura, so not wrestling mate.
@@andresmiguel2573 he's a submission wrestler . Still a wrestler. Huge difference between wrestling and BJJ .
The answer is Chael, right?
Uncle Chael! You should do a video of Sakuraba ( catch wrestling) vs the Gracie’s .. 🌚
Depends on the type of wrestling, catch as catch can wrestling vs bjj could be close
I've been doing BJJ for 8 months, I'm a 1 stripe white belt. I rolled with my friend who had wrestled for 5 years. He was very good, better than most no stripe white belts. But I didn't have much trouble. Had he been given a month or two of BJJ training it might have been a different story.
@Luke Perret you can't infer that from that comment, you're clearly biased.
I do think bjj is better for a fight but, we are talking about fighting here, even though you beat him in a bjj match you aren’t that good in bjj yet, if you got in a fight with him it probably would be different because he would over whelm you because you aren’t very smooth with it yet.
Give weight and height
That was probably - strikes. With strikes, it could have been different.
@@youngrickey4927 I think you’re brain damaged
Dear Chael, I wrote you, but you still ain't callin I left my cell, my pager and my home phone at the bottom
@Number bloodySIX ~ Stan, I know.....the bad guy just lives his life, he is a legend. a god in a meat suit....don't take it personal, he still wants you as a fan......
Thank God you didn't send him two letters back in autumn, cuz he must not have got 'em...
Aditya Kundu I know you got my last two letters I wrote the addresses on 'em perfect
@@adityakundu3615 contact your post office there was probably a problem or something.
@@cantucesar1988 my girl just had a baby
Great explanation. I'm surprised you didn't mention Mark "The Hammer" Coleman.
Did Dan Severn throw a single punch though? That's the thing with the first couple UFCs. The guys who claimed wrestling and shoot fighting would try their hardest not to throw a single punch the entire match. Meanwhile, there are people earlier in the card doing soccer kicks to the head on down opponents and doing ground n pound on testicles. To some it was anything goes, but to others it was their strict style and nothing else.
That's not all, but thanks for saying that!
Ok great
Did you ever see a BJJ guy, namely Royce, throw a single soccer kick? The answer is no. You never saw Royce throw more than a handful of strikes his entire UFC run. So, this is a moot point friend.
That just illustrates the point even more. When Royce and Severn fought each other they were in their purest forms of combat. High level wrestling vs high level jiujitsu. And even with an 80 lb weight advantage Severn got choked out by a guy who was on his back using his legs! Something the world had never seen!
@@theDavidChannel1 what good is that supposed weight advantage without strikes?!
Maia subbed Askren, that's the modern day Severn vs Grace
As Ip Man says, the matial art is only as good as the person practicing it.
so the short answer is jiujitsu if its one skill set ... but i f you mix in the time limitation and a skill of ground and pound wreslers could win based on time if the jiujitsu guy does not catch them ... now if its a street fight and two guys that only have one skill wrestling vs jiujitsu .... the jiujitsu guy would win as we already have seen .... great answer uncle chael
Toe Knee Ferguson will win by cut in ufc 249 hellbows
Finally someone acknowledges Dan Severn's massive contribution to the martial arts world. Severn put the world on notice that wrestling is in fact, a martial fighting art. Before this fight wrestling was just seen as another sport boys took in high school. Those of us 40 and over who were around in 1994 clearly remember.
I actually didn't know that uncle Chael had a black belt in bjj, but then again he is the undisputed goat, so he probably has more black belts than there are sports that gives black belts
What about catch wrestling? I'm thinking about the Metamoris match between Josh Barnett and Dean Lister. Josh used catch wrestling from the beginning to the submission. I mean the dude wore wrestling shoes against the OG Leglocker.
Can you do a prediction on the upcoming Reug Reug match with a BJJ athlete?
Is it catch wrestling?! Hey sakuraba, what do you have to say about this?!
Catch Wrestling is almost a dead art at this point. Sakuraba's shoot wrestling is also taking more and more from American Pro Wrestling. But, I'll point out Ken Shamrock was a catch wrestler and lost to Royce
@@nicholasoneal1521 I guess historically it was pro wrestling that kinda ruined catch. Sakuraba was lucky that he got trained by pro wrestler who also was good oldschool catch wrestler.
@@nicholasoneal1521 Ken Shamrock was a shoot fighter. And Catch Wrestling is not dead!
@@xxPanteraxxxAlmost I said almost, not completely. Also, look up the history of shoot fighting and you'll find how it is related to catch wrestling
@Mr. LinTwo Gracies beat the crap out of Nubhiko Takada who was of the same shoot wrestling style as Sakuraba. Look, I think you're missing my point. My point is so few people do Catch Wrestling nowadays the sport can't really advance and improve
Be like Anderson Silva. One of the best Strikers (Muay Thai) in UFC history. And a BJJ Blackbelt but really underrated cuz he is a striker obviously😂😎👀
Rexelele I think Anderson’s bjj is very overrated. See the weidman fights
That combination is good for self defense, but if you need to win rounds in a 10 point must system...you need wrestling to either keep it on the feet or take it to the ground. Wrestling is a must in high level mma
@@kkimber359 i know obviously he tries to keep it standing but if he can use it if he has to
@@kkimber359 wrestling is only good for points or to stall fights. If you want to end fights and give the people a show its striking and bjj
@@o1h823 and how would you stay on your feet to strike? Or how would you get to the ground to do submissions? Takedowns or takedown defense... also known as wrestling...
Wrestling is valuable to know its not wast of time conditioning good takes reversals using leverage one like the conditioning its hard but you in get in shape both. Together awesome
so many more variables. what's their stand up and take down defense look like?
Mooey Thai never gets old lol
Chael, please tell the story of Mark Schultz fighting Rickson Gracie. If you have to get permission from said parties to do it then pleas do. Thanks Chael
wasnt a fight they grappled .Schultz had Rickson in a cradle for a while but got subbed and then got subbed again But Rickson said he was very tough
@@darenroth7390 hey bud. So, when I first saw ur reply I figured u were right and that I had confused the details of the encounter between Schultz and Rickson about being in an actual brawl when it was really competitive and surely intense but just a match nonetheless. I came across the video from Chael where he does in fact say otherwise. That it really was a legit fight between the two and that Rickson won, prompting Schultz to then later seek out instruction in bbj to obtain a black belt because he felt he had learned that bbj was in fact better than wrestling which he had been ignorant to prior to the fight. I’ll post the link
What do you think of submission wrestling or old fashioned catch wrestling
"don't pass guard. Just ground and pound, but don't get caught in anything" Chael has left the chat.
BJJ is wrestling though and there are lots of submission holds in Graeco, my Dad showed me heaps of them, head locks, arm bars, properly applied full nelsons are extremely hard to get out of face planted on the floor and are in essence submission immobilsations.
Just been baffled seeing all this comments talking about no sub holds in wrestling when I been hearing about stuff like chin locks, headlock and Nelsons my whole life. Hulk Hogan inadvertently caused a reporter to pass out from a front chin lock(I think) & I'm damn sure he knew nothing about jiu jitsu at the time
Anderson Silva: BBJ Chael Sonnen: Wrestling Nuff said
sunday miroslav Silva is more of a striker than a BBJ artists. One of the best striking percentages in history. i see your point though
Are I serious? That doesn't mean shit , Anderson was one of if not the best strikers to ever live. I don't remember the fight well at the moment, but I'm sure his strikes softened him up and was a factor. Also to my knowledge to Chaels credit, he had to of cut a lot weight, since he walked around in the 230s at least, which would have affected his endurance, and maybe mental clarity So many factors, u must have never heard the saying , matchups make fights for ex.
@@samgrant6638ikr in my opinion Anderson Silva was the best striker mma has ever seen, aside from maybe a couple others. So top three strikers in MMA history in my opinion.
DC
"moo-ey" thai class lol Just joshing ya, Chael. I love you
First! Love your videos btw 💕
Maia vs Askren was a fair answer to that.
One of 2/3 smart comments in this thread
I'd rather be an elite wrestler with little jiu jitsu than an elite jiu jitsu practitioner with a little wrestling.
Nah man cause the elite wrestler always slips up on the part when taking the back or armbars
I think its something ive seen every wrestler do is they hardly adapt to using submissions that are out of there comfort zone itd like they say hard to break habits. Wrestling sometimes leads to bad mma/jiu jitsu habits. Granted its my opinion
In pure style batle bjj always has the advantage, but in MMA both are very good.
DC wrestler in high lvl for decades, but ALL of It is unsuless against werdum for example.
And then you'll get caught in a submission eventually lol
Dope listen
Acho que nunca vou me acostumar a ouvir o Sonnen dizendo coisas sensatas.
Wrestling is the strongest base style for MMA in my opinion. However, if you put PURE wrestler vs PURE BJJ fighter against each other, almost always the BJJ guy wins (unless the wrestler naturally happens to be a better striker and decides to keep the fight standing). None of todays fighters in UFC level are pure one style specialists. With pure wrestler I mean guys who have only been doing wrestling and has zero submission training. No matter how tough and strong they are, they´re pretty easy to lure into submission of some sort. Be it a choke or a leglock. We have seen that kind of fights back in the early days. Wrestlers however, learn the basic defense tactics usually very quickly and then it starts getting tricky for BJJ guys. Sometimes we see an argument "BJJ doesn´t work anymore". Actually the truth is that BJJ has become such a mandatory part of modern MMA that anyone has to learn it. No matter what your base style is, you have to learn at least the minimum defense tactics of BJJ /submission wrestling. Just a side note, I´ve done both myself and equally love both styles and they complement each other perfectly for MMA.
It's not who wins, BJJ vs wrestler but like you said what is the strongest base. A wrestler controls where the fight goes. They can win rounds with take downs .Wrestlers are stronger and better conditioned. Wrestling and boxing compliment each other very well, especially in a cage. A wrestler will have an easier time adapting to BJJ than a BJJ player will to wrestling. What else?
Even an MMA fight on the concrete with a bigger wrestling champion? Almost every takedown would deal significant damage and it would have to be theoretical because there is obviously way more risk of death with a harsh floor .
People always say that, yet 90% of the street fights go to the floor and no one dies or end the fight because they hitted the floor. Yes it hurts, but that's it, most of the times the fight goes on, and if the guy is a Jiu Jiteiro, the chances of the him submit the opponent are huge, and ACTUALLY end the fight by breaking his arm and choking him until he sleeps
@@1504Shawn I can make up stats too when it serves my purpose.
@@Th3BigBoy Amazing counter argument bro
Chael is that camera big enough to take in the largest arm in Wesleyan Oregon that has found its way to Houston Texas because that thing looks a little small :)
Very interesting video. Imo a wrestler with some basic submission knowledge (mostly to avoid) would beat a jj with the that same amount of wrestlers takedown knowledge. They just dont have the pace. And I think if you can avoid triangles and armbars in a guard, anyonr can ground pound.
The problem with this argument is the assumption that wrestler vs BJJ means the match is going to the ground. If that is the case then yes Chael's point stands. Why the wrestler would want to take the match to the ground though is beyond me. Since this thought exercise assumes all other aspects of the two fighters is equal then you have to ask a couple questions first can Mr. BJJ get Mr. Wrestler to the ground and keep him there this is where most of the submission options occur after all. Of two skills is there any doubt that wrestling trains better takedown defense than BJJ trains takedowns? At the end of the day, the wrestler is deciding where the fight occurs. So then with all other skills being equal for the stand-up game which skill BJJ or wrestling brings more synergy to the stand-up. Is there any doubt that would be wrestling? Think about how fighting against the cage works. Which skillset brings explosiveness. Someone did mention pace right? Oh ya, did we mention slamming opponents instead of mounting (of course that would make judo and interesting addition to the topic)? End result it all depends on the decision the wrestler makes about where he/she wants the fight to occur because making that choice is one of the major benefits of wrestling.
If we still had no time limit fights BJJ would still dominate.
Kazushi Sakuraba called, he wants 90 minutes of his life back.
Chael! If you could take it all back, would you have gone for bjj first then wrestling? Or stick to the original game plan? Trying to find out what I should go for first. What is a better foundation for grappling? Submission or position? Thanks bad guy
Wrestling 100% to begin with, then BJJ. If you know how to get into position, then submissions come much easier
Did anyone else see Pat Downey vs NikiRodz or Gordon. Downey vs Niki Rod (High Level BJJ) was a no contest. Against Gordon it was not competitive at all in wrestling but Gordon did spank Downey in JITZ. But that's a very high level jits guy against reall a white belt.
That example is wrong in so many levels. But just to give you one: actual MMA experience. Royce Gracie was not a pure jiu-jitsu guy. He was a Vale Tudo fighter with multiple MMA fights in Brazil prior to UFC 1. And he also had 10 fights in the UFC itself before ever meeting Dan Severn in the octagon. Dan Severn on the other hand was a total newbie to MMA, and UFC 4 was literally first day in his life fighting MMA/Vale Tudo. If beating a total newbie is an accomplishment, then your skills are not very credible. LoL
That makes sense lol. I’ve seen a clip of the fight with Dan holding up the funniest looking guard ever before going for a takedown.
A newbie that has 100lb on you
Wrestling is the best base for MMA bar none. A great wrestler that learns submissions, is far better than a great BJJ that learns some wrestling. Wrestlers are traditionally better conditioned, and typically stronger. Not to mention when they learn to ground and pound it usually spells doom for bjj
Yes exactly. A wrestler will have an easier time learning jiu jitsu than BJJ player will learning wrestling.
We pretty much saw that with Maia vs askren
No time limit fight Old School Gracie Jiu Jitsu every time. In an MMA fight Wrestling. Matt Hughes v Royce Grace 2006
Thought we saw this with Askren vs Maia
Woodley maia is a better example, Askren was washed
@@itsZukka yea but so is mia
@@itsZukka Maia is too old for Woodley, best comparision would be Askren
@I offer u this my mistake, but Woodley looks like a tank though, Maia is regular size man, Usman did the same against Woodley, being stronger makes alot of different i would say
we saw it with chael vs anderson looool
That Schultz incident was not a "street fight", it was a submission-only grappling match. Mind you it took 30 minutes for Rickson to submit Schultz in a submission only grappling match, even though Shultz had no idea of submissions and he wasn't allowed to ground & pound after taking Rickson down. A sane person might ask the obvious question: what's the point of such rules? Pure marketing perhaps?
True. I wrestled at BYU from 1990-1994. I was there to watch the match between Mark and Rickson.
@@SouEuIAm give us the story then! How did you find it? What do you remember?
He had him in a cradle too, could you imagine if knees and headbutts were allowed? Rickson wouldve been taking a ride to ICU after he ate knees and headbutts for 20m.
Sonen is the best trash talker . Hands down. I have a new comedy podcast “ meant to vent “
Wrestling is takedowns, take down defense, standup & on ground positioning, BJJ is submissions & submission defense, you combine them both you have the full package for grappling, if you ask which one is better in a grappling match then obviously BJJ, if you ask which one is better for self defense or should I say “striking allowed” then wrestling, but combine them both to be the maximum technique for grappling
So for the street wersling is better