chapters
0:00 intro
0:19 what happened
0:55 freeze review & analysis
5:21 main idea
6:58 conclusion
✦The FREEZE documentary✦
• LUCAS Documentary Part...
• LUCAS Documentary Part...
✦2021 "incident" overview✦
/ megathread_accusations...
www.soompi.com/community/arti...
#LUCAS #루카스
I don't understand why SM just doesn't tell us what happened about the accusation. Why is everything so vague? They've always done this so many times and I wish that if he is really innocent that they would come out clear and if something happened that they would come up clear as well
They would rather support all of sasaeng fans rather than their own idols and that really put a bad taste to my mouth…
@@seulmiseforever9603exactly.
@@seulmiseforever9603 well they made a doc and the company have been in support since they didnt kick him out like fans requested
Cuz it’s sm they don’t care about Chinese idols they have to defend themselves it’s no secret
@@brennathecatlover4360 yeah I know. that's very sad
My thing is that if SM wants to redebut him so bad then why aren’t they addressing the elephant in the room. This man has very serious allegations against him, either put the enough into clearing his name or end the contract and be done with him.
Cuz it’s a company who is known to not give af about Chinese idols it’s obvious they never looked into his situation the fans had to do their job
sm doesnt give 2 shits about their chinese idols and is terrible at handling rumours
Because at the end of the day the problem started from within the company. They’ve had sasaeng staff since 2018 and there’s still vids u can find addressing it. One of the sasaengs responsible for the accusations had connection to sasaeng staff and literally made a post on weibo and Twitter 2 days ago taunting him and saying who knew this would only speed up his solo. If SM would’ve been smart they would’ve done a better job at hiring staff and not letting sasaengs infiltrate the company
Because they can profit from this vagueness. They did not outright say "he is not guilty" so there would still be heat and attention on him. They did not outright say "he is guilty" so fans could still continue to hope and pray he is not. My gut feel is that, they are trying to make an actual "idol redemption" successful; where they re-brand the idol, and the attention would not disappear.
ive never seen a company try and do a whole redemption arch thing with a documentary really
Ikr but that’s because SM is responsible for his downfall and won’t blow the whistle on themselves by saying they had sasaeng staff in the company for yrs. They won’t point fingers at themselves since the company has so many other problems making headlines so why not have him take the fall for it and help him get his career back since it’s their fault
The new company of ex Stray kids Woojin did too
@@EIIywoojin's was very different though. they very specifically addressed his accusations and debunked them, pointing out translation errors and why the evidence was invalid. they did praise woojin a lot but it was more sarcastic and tongue-in-cheek so i think they're quite different. the aim of their documentary was to show woojin was falsely accused, but lucas' is kinda like 'i kinda did the thing, sorry, but im a better person now.'
@@melodycao5376 I agree, I would have preferred if the Lucas documentary was this way, addressing precisely what happened and what he did, because by being so vague about an "incident" we aren't really sure about what he's even apologizing for.
@@melodycao5376 TRUTH. I hated how this documentary comes off as 'he actually did it and begging for apology' rather than exactly stating what he did or clearing up. 😢 i need him to clear his name real soon fr.
This feels like a social experiment to me. As in, SM is trying to see if they can continue to support/finance an idol after a problematic situation. Lucas wasn’t able to be charged criminally for the things he was accused of. If he had been SM most likely would have terminated him and none of this redemption arc would be happening.
“wasn’t able to be criminally charged” girl there were no criminal charges to begin with. you think china takes this shit lightly? they literally wipe celebrities who get criminally charged off the face of the earth. the sasaeng who made all of this shit up has been stalking nct since way before debut. you seriously can’t be going around and believing sasaengs tf 💀
In addition, I think they want to re-brand Lucas. Negative attention is still attention, and if that's what's keeping his name in the mainstream media; why would they prove his innocence? Being vague is the perfect way to keep the attention to him both from hateful antis and hopeful fans.
I get the impression that it's an experiment on marketing to different countries/audiences. My understanding is that Lucas' career in mainland China is pretty much shot. I think that's why he was so quickly pulled from Wayv's activities (Jalapeno subunit) - his controversy had potential to bring the whole group down because he was one of the most popular members. While Sicheng's fanbase is huge and so is Ten's, their successes seem to lie more in their solo work. Wayv hasn't really reached the level of success in China that SM aimed for, especially compared to how massively successful Exo was. If Lucas had remained in Wayv, I don't think the group could've survived because their whole inception was to promote in China. I saw an article recently (allkpop - 'Artists who are shunned in Korea are turning to foreign fans') which was interesting to think about. The comments online that I personally see are limited to English ones, but it seems that he still has supporters internationally. Not sure how the Korean general public sees him either, but it probably isn't too good seeing as he was also pulled from NCT. SM clearly seems to think he still has potential for profit. I could definitely see them marketing him to international audiences. And actually, I literally just remembered he was in SuperM too. Just checked and he wasn't specifically removed from that group. If I'm remembering right, SuperM didn't do too well domestically but did quite well globally? Sorry to ramble in your comments LOL. I was quite big on Wayv at one point and I'm still fond of them so it's all really interesting to me
I think it's an experiment on marketing to different countries/audiences. My understanding is that Lucas' career in mainland China is basically shot. I think that's why he was pulled almost immediately from Wayv promotions (Jalapeno subunit) - he was one of the most popular members so his controversy had potential to bring the whole group down. Wayv hasn't really reached the levels of success in China that SM wanted for them, especially compared to how big Exo was. And Wayv's inception was specifically to promote there. While Sicheng's fanbase is huge and so is Ten's, their successes seem to lie more in their solo work, so I don't know that the group could have continued with Lucas in it if the public's perception of him was ruined. Not sure how the Korean general public sees him either, but it probably isn't too good seeing as he was also pulled from NCT. I saw an unrelated article recently (allkpop - 'Artists who are shunned in Korea are turning to foreign fans') which was interesting to think about. The comments that I see are limited to those in English, of which there definitely are a lot of people defending him or being dismissive about everything. So I could definitely see them marketing him to international audiences. And actually, I just remembered that he was in SuperM. Just checked and he wasn't specifically removed from that group. If I'm remembering correctly, SuperM didn't do that well domestically but was quite big globally. Depending on how his solo debut is received, I could maybe see them promoting him with SuperM. Sorry to ramble in your comments lol. I was quite big on Wayv for a while, and the whole Lucas situation really made me think about parasocial relationships, idolizing celebs, etc, etc, so it's all very interesting to me.
Yeah, the whole thing is weird. SM has a history of making ambiguous statements when they really should be clear. Not clarifying which allegations Lucas has admitted to is making him look really bad, possibly worse than what is warranted for. Someone already commented about the TY incident, where SM made him apologize for something he didn't actually do, which is bizarre and muddies the waters. Trying to infer the truth from vague and often misleading actions taken by companies is honestly hopeless. So I dunno about Lucas... but I do know I feel bad for those of his fans who are being kept in an emotional limbo regarding all of this.
can you specify what you mean with TY? bc the comment he left on his middle school yearbook was very real and that's what I recall him apologizing for
I saw somewhere that it was a bullying scandal he got involved in and it took SM about 4 years (after making him apologise publicly) before he was proven innocent@@KY-jd1nl
@@KY-jd1nlhe was accused of bullying in high school but dispatch were the one debunking the rumor
@_v541 but it is true he wrote a one-off comment about a classmate making fun of her weight, which is what he apologized for. he wasn't a school bully or anything, but one aspect of the accusation was true.
My conclusion is that there are likely 2 sets of stories going on here - and what we are getting is only one set (the sasaeng one) while SM has both sets. I also believe that it he was setup by the C CP/ competitors - see here for more info: The Lu cas Wo ng Scan dal (full story)
you brought up a point that I didn’t even think about, why is sm so committed to him and his redebut. I never thought that far into this whole redemption story that’s being told. My first thought was the profit but that just doesn’t make sense with everything thats gone down. I really don’t know what to make of this situation.
I don’t think I’m the person to say if he should or should not be an idol again because I don’t know him as a person and if he’s actually changed. I can’t make definitive judgement based on what he’s saying. I’m just left in this weird grey space where there’s no real answer.
He’s got to be sm’s best looking male idol so maybe that’s why they don’t wanna let him go. He might also have a lot of Chinese fans still.
Cause he’s innocent over a scandal of dating + asking his gf for gifts. It spiraled because people lied & twisted the facts esp in weibo. The person begin the rumors is a known nct sassaeng flytothemoon
@@diannaa.62 sm will most likely try to get him into the international market cuz he still has some committed fans
@@rere9991 in the documentary, he admitted he had done something wrong but it doesn’t point to any specific thing he was accused of doing, so I’m just going to assume that he has done something that can be condemned. So why would a company want to associate themselves with that, it just seems like a hassle for everyone involved.
I don't even have a dog in this fight. I'm neither a Lumi nor an Nctizen, but for the small handful of idols that have ACTUALLY committed a crime and have had to do some kind of time or testify in a court of law for their wrongdoings y'all go extra hard on idols who get the barest of (inconsistent, coincidental) accusations and end up forcing them to leave their groups. You did it to Woojin, you did it to Garam, you did it to Ravn, you did it to Jimin, you did it to Soojin, and from my understanding you've done it to Lucas. If they or their company defend them(selves) you throw rocks and call them the devil, but if they just lay back and apologize in a way that doesn't confirm or deny anything you'll still continue to throw rocks and call them the devil. They can't win or lose for trying. Y'all make it easy for faceless randos to accuse these idols of abuse of power and/or some kind of assault and let them get away with it under the guise of "believing victims" when really a stranger on the internet, ESPECIALLY those weird ass stalker fans, can lie and doctor "proof" about anything. These idols just have to piss off the wrong person at the wrong time (coincidentally around a comeback) and their livelihoods are put on the line because y'all don't know how to back up and be neutral about a situation involving complete strangers. How many times does this same old song and dance have to happen for y'all to learn when to put your pitchforks down-ON BOTH SIDES-and shut up? "I'd rather believe a liar/potential victim" fool me once, shame on you. fool me five times after that then maybe I just lack discernment. That's all I'm hearing. Womp womp. I will say, knowing SME and what y'all are saying about Lucas's.......lack of talent, it is weird that they kept him in the company and are making him a soloist. If he (apparently) can't sing, rap, or dance what's he gonna do and why are they re-debuting him? what profits do they think he can bring in if people want his head on a spike and he's untalented to boot?
you are absolutely right, people will never be satisfied and even if I hate that fact so much that's how it is... and about lucas being "talentless" he CAN dance, rap and sing but again people can never be satisfied
Thissss, I hate it when haters and once a fans started hating them without having the mindset that people can change to be a better version of themselves, they also have guilty conscience and most importantly they have heart😢
You are SO right. Your comment was so refreshing to read. I just heard about the situation. I was never into NCT nor their music so I don't feel entitled to state anything about it, but most those kind of scandals sound ridiculous to me. We should've learned how the internet is, how easy it is to frame/accuse someone overnight and ruin their whole lives and careers. I'm not saying Lucas is guilty nor innocent, I have no clue honestly, but people are so quick to accuse someone, who's probably the victim, and defending someone who probably destroyed someone's life. In some cases accusations are found to be true (Kris Wu for instance, is in jail) but generally talking, I don't get why people can't simply take those pieces of information and WAIT for more to be revealed before jumping on conclusions. Sure, it is shocking and disappointing to hear such accusations but I don't know... don't be so guillible and don't believe everything, and don't follow this stupid "cancel" train. You EXACLTY know how internet works. But also, people tend to forget how little we truly know about the situations that are exposed, we will probably never know whether it is true or not, because we ARE NOT part of the situation. We just know what is exposed on the internet. Concerning this situation, just like the ones you quoted, I can't allow myself to fully take part in a side, because we don't know. We don't truly know who our idols are unfortunately, nor how they're treated, nor how they act etc. People will see a statement and take it as a holy truth and watch this same statement being denied just few days later.
Jimin deserved so much better…
the accusations were made from a nct saesang whos legit been stalking mark since he was 15, went to marks graduation and took photos of him, followed all the members around, took photos of the members on tbe toilet, bought a plane ticket next to yangyang and was tryna take photis of him so kun called her out then she tried to make up suff about him but no one believed her then she was following wayv and lucas posed a photo of her face so she started posting those accusations and he did nothing wrong
from the documentary, the chinese subs translate what he admitted to differently. specially the part where the eng sub translates to "had I not done that, this wouldn't have happened" while the chinese translates to "if i hadn't done it that way, it probably wouldn't be like this" OR "nothing can justify what i've done" to "no matter what reason(s) I had, I shouldn't have done it that way". which could really just mean that he regrets exposing sasaengs… and tbh taeyong admitted to the things he was accused of, then he turned out to to be innocent. But what i think needs to be said, is that the og accusation were cheating and gaslighting not abuse. +obviously he wouldn’t call it just “foolish behavior” if he did that… at the end it’s really just SM doing a really bad job like usual. they should have just came out with a clear statement 2 and a half year ago :/
exactly, sm treated this whole situation so awfully. they always do and it’s so goddamn frustrating. and thank you for bringing up what the original stuff was. once he released the “apology” letter, that’s when the sasaengs started making more stuff up. then mfs just ran w the fact that he admitted to sa without even looking at the times 💀
finally someone said it !
no cause the fact that Lucas exposed a very well known nct saeseng and just like 2 days later he gets “cancelled”…. that coincidence is a bit too coincidental. with that being said i do think this whole situation is just so vague there is no evidence to prove Lucas innocent or guilty so its a loose- loose situation for Lucas
@@catalinau594 Oh, it's not a coincidence. Same saesang cancelled I believe. She was made that Lucas exposed her so she "exposed" him.
@@catalinau594 and it’s not the first time in NCT sasaeng done something like that I remember correctly nct haechan told a NCT sasaengs to stop coming and lingering outside of their dorm room and I think either the next day or a couple of days later, they exposed him for coming home drunk
I do think Lucas deserves a redemption, however, they make it seem like he was guilty and apologising, when he was never proven guilty or innocent. You can tell during parts of the doccumentary he was reading a script off a screen but there are parts that are authentic. He has changed for the worse and for the better but SM is being to vague. He can't have a redemption if the thing they are redempting him from, was never addressed. I am also just glad he's still here. Alive. Yet, I wonder, why do they care about him? In case y'all have forgotten how some of the other SM idols that have been through this type of thing have ended up. SM never did anything for them, but they are dedicated to Lucas? Are they as a company sorting their shit out, or are they just desperate for Lucas to bring in money? Do they actually care about him?
Listen I don’t think he should die or anything, but how can you still want him to succeed when it was revealed how terrible his character was? Taking advantage of fans, pressuring them into sex, begging them to buy him gifts, ghosting them, using his fans for their bodies, talking shit about the other Wat V members….just why would you support someone like this????
@malena4143 but it was not proven, and the "proof" provided is very cuestionable. Also the acusers where very shady themselves...
@@malena4143it's all alleged, none proven
@@malena4143girl….. did you not read the post? This was never proven - that’s point of this post. She’s saying how he can have a redemption arc if they never addressed whether or not his accusations were true and if he was proven guilty of all the things he did especially since the accusers were exposed for lying about the accusations they did put forth about his character and actions. the idea is what SM is trying to do here with him when they never truly addressed ?😊
@@malena4143nothing was proven though. You can’t believe everything you see on the internet smh
If Lucas is innocent, I would love for him to have a flourishing career once more. But SM Entertainment has always chosen to give no statements on their scandals and also told the artists not to do it either, so I believe this WILL negatively impact Lucas' career no matter whether he is innocent or not. We can't gage whether he is alright or not as an audience, so to be safe, most people will choose not to support him. I doubt SM has plans to redebut him again (bc they would've fixed his image if they did) but hey, we will just see
But they made him his own Instagram, KZhead and facebook accounts. So wouldn’t they have made them if he was gonna re debut as a soloist? I don’t know though and as a Lucas supporter I want to see him debut and have a career but I don’t wanna jinx it
@@SomthingSomthingz yeah, it looks like they are gonna redebut him. Which surprises and confuses me, considering how badly they have tarnished his reputation. I just wonder what's gonna happen now
Innocent of WHAT?!?!? What law did he violate? Do you all really believe he’s be going to showcases and shows for other NCT members if he had been treating them like crap? Honestly, if people don’t want to like Lucas, that is their prerogative. But to me, the fact that people want to hate on this young man for acting like and making poor decisions as a young man while he’s YOUNG! Is ridiculous. Even if he admits to lying to and having multiple girlfriends…I’m waiting for the illegal act. The fact that yall are treating this boy like he committed SA against someone is the reason people keep overreacting. He didn’t do anything, even to Korean standards! If a fan base of teens are having a hard time “ forgiving” someone who they don’t know, and doesn’t know them. Well🤷🏾♀️ okay, but grown ups don’t really see the problem here. I don’t need a relationship apology from a random celebrity that I’m not dating. Renegade is a true banger though!
@sha2596 bro chill. There was no need to get bent out of shape. I was talking about SM Entertainments likelihood of redubting Lucas in terms of their usual consideration around fan behaviour and scandals. I was not stating my personal opinion, just observations: there was no need for you to get so bent out of shape. I also wrote this comment before his redebut, which I was also relieved about them announcing and also enjoye
Wish Garam could also get a redemption arc
female idol so unfortunately i doubt it. i wish, but the industry is never as kind to them
@CLstan4life you're not wrong unfortunately💔
i hope she can be a successful actress
@@slaypa same
It's rare for female idols, but now she is studying to being an actress so there is hope
// long rant ahead SM's handling of the situation has been nothing short of pathetic, honestly. Companies need to stop this fucking trend of vague apologies and sudden hiatuses. Like please, tell us WHAT exactly you're apologising for. Also, making Lucas say sorry in the documentary with no reasoning whatsoever literally gave people more reason to hate on him because they're free to imagine whatever context they want and run with it, and people who are blindly hating on the man will support it without a word. I dont get it, is SM trying to sabotage his solo career before it even starts? I'm glad he's back and not a part of wayv/nct anymore but god, if he truly is innocent this is no way to prove it. I dont think they would've given him a whole ass documentary if he wasn't in the clear, but I'm seriously very curious about what it is about him that they're refusing to let him go. Now while I understand that he's "apologised" for his "past actions" (which I've heard are gaslighting, cheating and manipulation) we have to remember that SM has made idols apologise for less. (chen for getting married, taeyong for being a normal teenager, seunghan for smoking + having a gf.) Plus, there's an outrage currently on lumi twitter because there's a disparity between the English and Chinese sub's meanings. While the english subs say- "I shouldn't have done that.", The chinese subs say- "I shouldn't have done it 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 that." There is such difference in meaning in these two sentences. He constantly keeps saying his behaviour was hyper and temperamental, and now he's "changed," but my belief is he got over confident and thought he could boldly expose the saesangs without any consequences. We have countless bubble messages from him where he's posted the pictures of them outside their schedules and asked them to not bother them. Yall the person who started this bullshit in the first place is on weibo right now, posting stuff that is as good as a statement of confession, saying things like "I did not imagine trying to bring down this idol's house would lead to kickstarting his solo career". (translation from weibo) She's stalked Kun and Yangyang before, but it only started to matter when she did it to Lucas bc he was one of the more popular members. Remember that Lucas is chinese, and half thai- suing would've been a corporate pr nightmare for him, because this basically makes it an international issue between china and korea. What disgusts me the most is SM scheduling wayv cb, taeyong solo, ten solo AND the docu within such a short time frame- wayv getting the short end of the stick as always. While lucas doesnt exclusively have anything to with wayv schedules anymore, we've got people blaming him for the problems during phantom era. Please direct this energy towards the corporate snakes at sm who've told the boys on their face that theyre not getting to showcase their unique talents because theyre not "popular" enough. (this is strictly my opinion, you're free to agree/disagree. we can talk about it amicably in the comments)
Thank you for making this comment! These things are vital to actually understand the situation
for real I think the real truth will be years from now when the NCT members are all in their 40s have left SM or have NDAs or whatever expired and they can say the whole truth kinda like the JYJ members now who are interacting with their old SM colleagues. Like I need a whole documentary 'Surviving SM' because even the SNSD Jessica drama like the real truth should be revealed (as long as they want to reveal it that is)
I agree with you. Him being blamed for the reason why WayV was "held back" feels ridiculous and blown out the proportion. But at the same time, i need him to deal with this in the court because i need to see him clearing his name.
All I want to say is don't judge his situation by watching his documentary in English translation and HE IS NOT ACCUSED WITH SA.
THANK YOU FOR STATING THIS.
i thought one of the accusations was pressuring someone to have unprotected intercourse with him? that’s sa. that’s not consent when you’re pressuring somebody
@@rembbokie NO! The accusation was only manipulation. That stalker said that Lucas forced her to pay everything. If even SA was on the accusation, you shouldn't believe that cuz the rumor was spread from the ssg. She stalked Mark(since 2015), YangYang(2019), NCT Wish and now she's still after Lucas.
@@may_1003holy crap. she’s STILL around???
What i do not get is that so many are not doing proper research. The only thing he regrets is outing the sasaeng and setting off a tidal wave of hate. The original poster was a confirmed anti and admitted posted out of malicious intent because she disliked him and because she removed post SM it would appear took no action. As a company they have proven repeatedly they do not protect their artists and there is even news in the last year that artists have been fighting back from within as well as in fighting among the board and ceos. The then fabricated accusations of any SA went everywhere as blood in the water attracts sharks and the antis swarmed on the issue calling him a predator etc. he was NEVER accused of SA. That was hysteria created after. The original posting (confirmed false) was that he was a bad boyfriend. Misleading or playing with said girls made up emotions etc. you don’t have to look far into SM or any of the big companies to see that the older gen ceo handle public issues in generally the same outdated way. Make the artist apologise, irrelevant of truth or not and then indefinitely sit them in the basement till it all goes away or a bigger fish swims past. This has been done over and over and over. We currently have a group member on hiatus for having the audacity to have had a girlfriend when he was 13 before he was a trainee - shocking right? No. Ridiculous. But the netizens were outraged and again this was a targeted attack confirmed on him by pannocha and others who then targeted others in the anime 23’ farces. Lucas was confident and maybe naive but he wasn’t a predator and he walked into the abyss stupidly thinking he could fight back and he was crucified for it. Not for truth or crimes but because the companies and minority rule in this industry. A small group of loud antis can ruin a career on a whim and there is no incentive to uncover truth or rationale. How many media and articles jump on the first tiny sniff of a rumour and before we know it an idol is excommunicated and their dream over? Too often. Then maybe 6-12 months later it’s all confirmed it was false and folks don’t even raise an eyebrow. Everyone ran to toast their marshmallows on the fire that was a persons life but they don’t apologise or rush to help when they leave them sitting in the ashes. What Lucas did or didn’t do is actually unknown. We have an admitted hater who got the ball rolling and a LOT of antis creating this serious accusation on top with zero evidence (the photos and location pictures that were claimed were proven false by nctzens who matched pics to online sites, from other users and from places when he was physically in other countries). There was no official statement on the matter and still isn’t. What I find more worrying is that this human says I was so overwhelmed by the hatred and events that he considered a terrible choice. That someone who just doesn’t like an idol, an entertainer who sings and dances, not a president or political leader an idol, hates him so much they tell him even now he should have. In an industry where we have seen cyber bullying, sasaengs and antis push one too many idols to choose that and then cried never again we think nothing of this behaviour. There must be a change, I was proud to be a monbebe and we fought for over a year till a police statement cleared names of any wrongdoing but it was the fight that helped save a dream wrongly broken. I hoped it was the beginning of change but it has a long way to go. Companies must learn to address clearly and quickly on issues and protect artists from targeted hate and harassment. Security in airports, transfers at residences etc all need a new approach. The online haters and malicious postings need to be taken to task. Zero tolerance for sasaengs and companies must always prosecute. They have to create the Disney like reputation that they will take action and no apologies don’t work so that antis and sasaengs are aware and it’s not worth the vitriol. So many asking should he have a chance, yes. Cause right now there is nothing he’s done or evidence to show he’s acted inappropriately that would lead me to think otherwise. If he did have a girlfriend or was dating while I get some teens maybe ruffled by that, is that a crime? Too many times seeing this same game play out and I’m tired of it. Seeing idols genuinely guilty of stuff be defended and even supported, and not just for having dated but real SA, trafficking, drugs, embezzlement etc. but the pitchforks and burning stakes are for the ones who might have dared date or just be accused by folks who don’t like them. It’s 🤯
Without trying to be biased, I think the whole reason why they never really stated anything was because they didn’t know what to do one but also I feel like entertainment has always had this habit of not wanting to upset their domesticates. At the time that Lucas scandal happened there was high political tension with China at the time, so them sitting there and see me as if they were actively trying to protect this Chinese member would have looked bad on them, regardless of how people want to sit there and act like politics don’t play a huge part in the entertainment world over there. Because of this I feel like the company wasn’t really trying to do anything. I also feel like the reason why fans were so adamant and still are about pointing out the fact that the allegations were questionable, and then a bunch of other ones that came out that were proven false happened at an interesting time, because and what it feels like he might have been apologizing for it it could just be again not what he is but people never took into consideration three weeks before the scandal broke him, Kun and another member was recorded. Confronting stalker fans at one of their music video shoots. He then took it a step further by going on bubble, and sharing pictures of these women who were not supposed to be there who were stalker fans, and venting his frustration with them, showing up at their place of work, and how it was dangerous and how it preventing them from finishing on time because they had to shut down production until they could get these women to leave the set. A week after that, the jalapeño video ended up being late, but none of the fans were watching it. They sat there and said they were going to wait for the official unit de they were not going to sit there and spoil it for themselves. When that got absolutely no traction a week after that three weeks after he had exposed these people and literally posted their pictures up and talked about them The scandal broke out. That’s not, including the fact that there was so many inconsistencies that even people who weren’t fans of Lucas pointed them out because they alleged that he was dating them, and this that and another was happening but the days that they gave didn’t line up with his public schedule That pointed at him being in a different freaking country at the time. Then there was the fact that there were a lot of Chinese fans who are pointing out the inconsistency in the text messages. However, the WeChat messages were clearly doctored the same thing with the KakaoTalk messages also pointing out the fact that he was fluent in Korean, but was stumbling over Chinese when he barely spoke Korean fluently, and he grew up in Hong Kong. At the end of the day it feels like the reason why he was kind of left to the dogs and the company did nothing was because of political tension xenophobia and then the pandemic happened and they didn’t feel like doing anything. Also, I don’t think SM did anything afterwards because of the fact that the initial accuser did end up publicly posting up on a social media platform that people could easily go to that they had lied About an idol to ruin their career, and then sold their international account on Twitter to someone else. Not only that, but the pictures that he had shown of these two girls, and then the pictures that were leaked of the first accuser was a well-known stalker fan of NCT matter fact, they started off being an obsessed fan of NCT dream before moving on to WayV. The company had done absolutely nothing over the years and still does it because this person is still a well-known stocker fan of this group which is again another reason why I feel like they’re just never going to come out and say it or do anything. They expected basically for fans and people who were so invested when the scandal first happened to continue to be invested until things were eventually either proven false on their own or things quiet down and that didn’t happen if anything I feel like people just join the bandwagon even quicker , and I also feel like people do sit there, and overlook the xenophobia that exist in K-pop, and in the community because I saw so many people, including myself, who was sitting there when this happened just translating stuff, not having an opinion. At that point in time I was a fan of NCT dream I wasn’t really into the other groups as much but I was getting into them yet still having people making racist comments about the Chinese people trying to just protect him and all this other shit it got so bad that a lot of his fan sites in China and even some of the Korean ones were trying to defend him had to delete their accounts Because of the heat that they were getting and the fact that K-pop fans were trying to docs them just for sitting there and trying to translate things and prove information or prove certain things false. At the end of the day, it felt like it was an entire shit show and it also felt like a lot of K-pop fans were just banning together to hate on someone because they wanted to so many people were ignoring any kind of facts that were coming out as a entertainment the last thing they wanted to do was to sit there and piss off what they seen as their core fans and demography, and a lot of international fans were either confused, or were surprisingly automatically, jumping on the bandwagon with the Korean fans. At this point it’s been two or three years so I don’t think the company feels a need to have to say anything they most likely see it time has passed and they kind of want to show what he has gone through and what has been going on and people sitting there saying oh, but he apologized. They’ve had other idols that SM entertainment. Apologize for Vegas things. XO members at some point we’re also accused of gaslighting and having secret girlfriends and things and the company did nothing about that they actually made both of those members apologize. The only reason why one of the members ended up Suing the person who made allegations is because then the person went further than that and made allegations that they forced them to have an abortion, which is the only reason why the company took action. This is not the first time that I don’t underestimate entertainment had been accused of gaslighting and gatekeeping and being a horrible ass partner to a potential relationship they were in and it’s not the first time that the company has absolutely said nothing or was just super fucking vague about it. The only difference is this this situation was also fueled by the fact that he was a foreign member which is something I do personally think people overlook way too much in K-pop like Korean vans have been complaining for years and even now they still complain about there, being too many foreigners, debuting, and even with SM itself recently when it came out about them, debut new group and the possible lineup was leaked. There were so many articles talking about the Korean fans basically sitting there and being pissed off, and cursing out these teenage girls who could possibly debut in as of new girl group, because they were mad at us entertainment was once again, going to have a group that wasn’t fully created. Like genuinely, I think people overlook the xenophobia and the racism that exist in that country and how it does affect the fans in that country so when in idol that they don’t like is being accused of something or have something going on, they will sit there and try to blow it out of proportion more than they need to because they want to get rid of them and this isn’t the first time this has happened with a non-Korean idol.
if nobody knows if the accusations are true or not then asking if he should be redeemed or be able to debut again is stupid. If you can't confirm or deny whether he's guilty how can you ask a question that should essentially be followed up after you know whats fact and whats fiction .
I do find it weird that SM is hellbent on protecting Lucas, while at the same time they did nothing to protect Seunghan
I think it's because Seunghan was newly debuted, while Lucas already was established? kind of like nipping the problem in the bud
SM has already threatened to sue for Seunghan, something they didn't do for Lucas.
@@KY-jd1nl and yet he is out of the group...
@@majita9385 he's literally not. he's on hiatus, and it's been pretty clear SM doesn't want him out (e.g. backup dancers wore his outfit at an end-of-year performance, they added his birthday to their official 2024 calendar, they restocked his keychain merch this year on their online shop - and it sold out immediately)
@@KY-jd1nl wonderful then - when accusations of him happened I have never seen 1 single nonsupportive comment - so I think that is what SM likes to do - if there have been so many supportive comments about Lucas they would return him right away. I think that they are still testing the waters and how it will be accepted.
I do believe that people can grow and learn for their mistakes and move on....but i'm going to say this, and i mean every second i said here: if a female idol tried to do what Lucas is doing right now, she could never, i repeat never, had their careers recover from an scandal like this, especially if the female idol came from SM, bcuz we know how much SM loves their female idols. "But Chuu what about Soojin" Soojin can't even promote on large music show venues, the reason why Soojin has been able to have a succesful solo debut, it's because of Neverlands, people who tought Soojin was innocent and people who hated Cube and thought she deserved better. Also the lack of accountability and his self awareness are red flag to me, like use simpathy and tell us how you've felt during that time, i get it, public scrutiny must not been easy to deal with, but shows us evidence that you're growing and that you've changed. WHy i'm mentioning this, i don't know, it's just giving flashbacks to the Mina situation, where she used simpathy to validate her story instead of giving evidence of the supposed bullying that Jimin did to her. This are my 2 cents, thank u for coming to my TED Talk.
With sooji at least it was proved that she is inocent, that's why the fans didn't abandon her. With lucas everything is in grey area
you do realise sm has been preventing him from saying and doing so much. they’re not even protecting him or nct by taking legal action against sasaengs. they never have
i agree with everything, but i’m pretty sure lucas is banned from promoting on music shows because when he came up on eunchae’s star diary (a music bank series) his face was blurred.
👏🏻👏🏻
This makes no sense. Punish all because people don’t know how to human? Lucas can’t have a career because people chose to treat Soojin badly? Take that up with CUBE! They are in the wrong here. If CUBE chose to Ditch SJ because she’s female then boycott and stop supporting CUBE. Stop expecting how these companies react to unlitigateable actions or perceived actions of their idols. Being a bad boyfriend isn’t illegal. Fans being hot to sleep with their fave is not illegal. If he broke Korean or Chinese law while in Korea or China, and these people clearly wanted to attempt to ruin him. Why not press charges? I’m not having a morality war over a solo rapper. Either like their music or don’t. 🤷🏾♀️
They shot it like an episode of "I live alone" variety show
Dude 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️
personally i need receipts, it's been however many years and sm can't come with a list of what he did and what he didn't do?? to me that indicates the worst of it is true, if a company as big as SM entertainment can't say that. obviously he did not commit any crimes i suppose, but he's shown he's not equipped for the responsibility of being an idol based upon how he was previously interacting with his fans (allegedly)
The only people who think he’s innocent are western fans. His Korean and Chinese fans have abandoned him because they know it’s very likely true. SM isn’t clearing it up for a reason.
What responsibility does an artist have outside of making music, I enquirer? Seriously want to know what you think is on their job description?
@@GDL364 what?! ... In China he always have a big group of his fan and today he just hit No.6 in weibo hot topic (it's so hard!!!) and on X I just saw a lot of Korean and Japanese fans cheering for his comback
I have yet to watch this documentary but my main question, seeing SM is backing him up, is who does he know? Why is his case the one that gets defended? Or why does he get redeemed? SME is kind of infamous in the fandom for not defending their idols, so why him?
that’s what I was hung up on too. Why does sm care so much about him. I really don’t know.
because he’s literally innocent and was completely lied about
wasn't he like the apple of chris lee's eye
@@xfreja But if he's innocent and it is all sasaengs why not sue them? Why take accountability for something but be vague about what we are being held accountable for? I don't anti Lucas but I just want clarity from an official source. He was a big part of nct. Those 'mistakes' and the 'incident' should be clarified. We are sick of being told "you're not getting any clarity, get over it!!" It's not an easy thing to get over. It's gonna cause more drama than needed when he becomes an idol and interacts with others. It's just a sticky situation. SM has had almost 4 years to figure it out though. It's not fair to potential victims, fans, and past fans to ignore the elephant in the room.
@@ZootedKittySM never do anything against sasaengs it’s been known honestly. NCT have been harassed by sasaengs since pre debut yet they never did anything to protect them.
Lucas was failed by his own company, and SO many of SM's idols were failed by SM. SM for YEARS has had saesang staff and this has been a known issue with fans yet SM will do nothing to stop it. Every single time one of their idols has had a scandal, SM has completely missed the mark. Jessica, Lucas, Seunghan, Taeyeon/Baekhyun, Anton, Taemin/Kai/Krystal, Sohee, Taeyong, Sulli, Jaejoong, Junsu, Yoochun. It's ridiculous and it has destroyed some of the idols, like Lucas was talking about. Not only does SM not protect their idols, they actively push them into creating para-social relationships with fans, which lead to some true insane "fans". I feel bad for Lucas because his situation is so messy and everything is mostly hear-say at this point, I wish SM would take legal action in the future... But I seriously doubt that. God I hate SM.
People have been kicked out of the company for less. SM banking on him means Sm has faith in the fanbase, you just need to rebrand and relaunch him. You are talking about an industry in which 2 of the buring sun convicts still have active fanbase/fancafe
Wait, which 2 convicts?
I've been a kpop fan for a bit, and I do support Lucas... But honestly the docu thing is a little weird to me, and seemed a little too orchestrated. I do wonder though, as this was an SM production in some aspects, if they just don't want him to plainly state what it is he has been accused of... It seems like any time there's a scandal in the industry, no one is willing to use plain speak. It's all vague. I don't have any strong opinions on the situation, simply because I don't feel like there's enough evidence to form them. I do feel like the fact that he isn't in jail does hint at the fact that he is probably not guilty, but I honestly couldn't say. I honestly find the whole thing suspicious. The scant evidence, the fact that he called out sasangs, the fact that no one is being straight-forward, and the fact that he's just been held at SM for 3 years. On another note, I honestly wish they would bring Seunghan back, because in my opinion his scandal was very ridiculous. If anyone has any insight for me, I will gladly listen, but please don't just spew hate nonsense because you can.
This is what I posted on the 2nd episode: After watching the 1st 2 episodes, (and as someone new to K-pop last year [thanks NCT 😊] and one to avoid gossip commentary), I just wish he would (or could) be upfront and forthcoming with the actions and wrongs he has repeatedly eluded to in both of these episodes. I would like to hear it straight from his mouth. Now, I understand everything is controlled and scripted to a certain extent by SM. However, by remaining ambiguous, it allows the haters to keep hating and those who are in the middle or undecided, to stay in a state of confusion and either not support or support with hesitation. Many know when someone goes on hiatus, the apology letter released may be actual remorse for the accused actions OR it may be to simply "calm the storm" temporarily. I'd like to think that since he was never criminally or civilly charged and SM has kept him under contract and supporting his solo work, it's likely that he's not guilty of all the things he's been accused of. SM, please just share the truth with the public. Period. In the future, please try to avoid hiatus' at all costs, worst case, limit them to a very short duration. Next, please return Seunghan to RIIZE. His actions were pre-debut, did not harm anyone else and is common for young people to engage in. His privacy was invaded. The hiatus only solidifies the minds of the haters that the idol has done something worthy of significant punishment and possible loss of career.
My biggest issue with everything (as someone who's loved him since debut and has been waiting for any info) is that when I first heard about this "incident", I searched it up and there were people debunking the 1st accuser. Supposedly, the first person gave photo evidence and voice notes as proof that they were seeing him but his fans pointed out that they used pictures and audio that he uploaded to various platforms. The second accuser, same situation but they had a few things that couldn't be confirmed so that was a little more doubtful and the 3rd accuser had more "believable" evidence but it was all vague pictures for all 3 accusers. I wanted to know if the 2nd and 3rd were true in any way but then he apologized vaguely and disappeared and SM has a habit of having their idols apologize and never properly acknowledge what they're apologizing for. I didnt know what to believe but I chose to believe that it likely wasn't too bad if the first 2 people seemingly lied the way they did. And, at the very least, I hoped he would grow from his mistakes and would be given a chance to redeem himself, if everything came out to be false. This "documentary" didn't give anything new. I felt bad for him as a Lucas fan but as a regular person I felt like I just sat through nothing. I just want a proper acknowledgement if he's gonna keep saying that he's sorry about what he did. I think that's the only way he should be able to move forward. That and an apology to the accusers if that's necessary. I just hate that I've seen so many people lie about serious situations/accusations in kpop that my immediate thought is to wait for more info and I hate it even more that I'm biased because it completely messes with my head and my feelings.
I'm not super familiar with this situation, so I won't speak on it specifically. In general, I hate when people say they take accountability and act like that's enough. Those words don't absolve anything. If you do admit to something bad and decide to move forward, especially in the spotlight, you need to put that spotlight on things that will prevent mistakes like yours from being made again. Accountability is more than admission or an apology.
they're being vague bc it's almost certainly partially true. SM is absolutely not shy about threatening to sue when they claim people are making up shit about their idols e.g. Karina, Seunghan - and Lucas is a HUGE moneymaker for them. LSM especially loved Lucas. they can't even be specific about which allegations to deny, bc doing so would imply everything they didn't mention is true. SM is trying to see if they can still make some money off Lucas through the hardcore fans that are still willing to support him through the ambiguity
They can’t sue themselves and don’t want to admit the whole scandal started from within the company when they had sasaeng staff
@@atinyarmy4407 companies can absolutely sue their own employees, esp when they breach their contract. I'm surprised you thought otherwise
Who’s not to say SM didn’t sue the sasaeng staff. But the point is they won’t expose themselves like that. Especially when there’s so much other drama that’s been happening with the company. The last thing they need is for something else to happen and make themselves seem worse as a company than they already eye. Also Lucas is Chinese which is another reason they don’t care enough to speak up for him. They’ve been known for mistreating their Chinese artist
@@atinyarmy4407 also "who's not to say SM didnt sue their sasaeng staff"??? You literally JUST said the post beforw "they cant sue themselves." I think its apparent that there is quite a lot of information youre not aware of
SM started to protect the idols and threaten to sue anyone after some months of this scandal, they have released an official notice about it. Fans were excited back then that this will finally bring some clarity to Lucas's case, but they didn't. They started taking these actions later
this is such a weird move by SM, it just feels like an experiment by SM trying to make the public move on and forget, really strange imo. they should have just let him go because they aren’t doing a good job keeping him in the company, it’s a shame because he really could be innocent but he could also be guilty.
speaking as someone who was perfectly fine with lucas moving on from the company, i'm not totally against him continuing music but the style of the documentary just feels disingenuise and like they're trying to make a sob story to coddle a 25-year old man. i don't doubt the guilt that lucas felt for all those years but at least let him state what he did
I feel like sm might not be upfront about whether he actually did what he was accused of or not because how do you prove that he didn’t do it? How do you prove that someone didn’t cheat for example? It’s not like the accusers gave a specific date that these things happened and then sm can release video footage of him at the same time doing something different? How do you prove that he doesn’t know the people who are accusing him? They can release a list of people that he follows on Instagram but I don’t think that proves anything. I think sm is lazy and they can’t definitively prove that he didn’t do what he was accused of so they just try to appease the fans instead. The accusers were shown to be lying atleast somewhat, and my thought process is why would you upload fake pics or lie if you’re telling the truth? And there was no legal action taken against him, which if he was abusing girls it’s not common that at least one person wouldn’t try to take legal action. I don’t know if he’s innocent or not, but considering nothing legal has come from this in all these years I’m gonna say let him have his freaking career back smh. I only watched a few minutes of the documentary cuz I could tell it looked dumb/staged from the get go, but that’s sm for you.
Whatever the case, was it really necessary for SM to do this while his ex group mate was promoting their solo debut? Why must they continuously give our 6 members of WayV such poor consideration
THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING! WayV had to give up so much just to cool down the situation back then and Lucas didn't even do anything to clear up the situation...
honestly! like, ten's solo debut is already overlapping so much with taeyong's comeback - which is unfair to both of them - and to add this on top, it's ridiculous
Look up new China laws that literally happened the same month as the scandal. Wayv weren’t able to promote in China and their was also a law prohibiting idol worship and bulk buying albums etc. Lucas was just used as a scapegoat in that aspect but if that was the case SM should’ve turned Wayv focus on the US or just have the focus on international success
Him not specifically addressing what happened, denying or accepting it is why I don't think he'll be able to redeem himself. Will he have support, of course, the former exo member who groomed and r4ped young women still has support, even the burning sun idol from big bang has support. This is what I think will always affect his image. There are Twitter threads made by his fans to defend him. This isn't enough to discredit the allegations. He should've just spoken about the allegations explicitly. Else he absolutely did not learn from this situation and there's no proof he grew or changed.
An exo member did what??!!
@@DumiNihii think they’re talking about chris wu
@@DumiNihiformer member kris who left the company and group early into exos career
he is currently in jail in china i believe
*former exo member (left in 2014), please be careful with wording
Hey so first of all, just to be transparent, I am a supporter of Lucas. In fact, I believe some of the comments here that cite the translations errors with the English subtitles might be because I provided an alternative English translation for part 1 based on the official Chinese (Mandarin) subs. I'd like to start by saying I am not interested in defending Lucas's innocence. I don't believe I have that responsibility, nor do I believe he has to be 100% innocent in order to deserve a second chance (or to be treated with human dignity). My intent here to to simply share my own personal takeaways from the documentary as well as just some additional background info as someone who has followed the scandal since it first broke. I think a large number of people who have not followed this case perhaps do not really grasp the extent to which Lucas and his family were harassed and doxxed and put in real danger by C-netizens or C-fans. These individuals doxxed his family's work location, they started rumors about his younger brother being involved in the Hong Kong democracy protests and even reported him to the Chinese governmental authorities (they posted on Weibo - Chinese social media - about doing so). They've also consistently used racial slurs against him (due to his half-Thai ethnicity) and mocked his working-class background (the lower socioeconomic status of his family). There also sent death threats, photo-shopped his images onto funeral items, and spread fake (digitally altered) explicit images and videos of him. Since the release of this documentary, some of this same harassment has returned. I bring these things up not to win sympathy points for him, but only to point out how the harassment and real danger his family members have experienced since August 2021 was also not directly addressed nor covered in this documentary. I feel that his family members and himself also deserve some sort of apology or justice, no matter what harm he has or hasn't caused. His innocence or guilt should be a separate issue from the very real harm done to his family and even his fans. I don't think it's fair to blame Lucas for this part of the harm. Even myself have received my share of death threats and racist harassment from Chinese fans. I don't think it's Lucas's fault that these people decided, of their own free will, to bypass the Chinese firewall to send me death threats. I simply do not agree with this sort of argument that they were forced to resort to volatile and hateful behaviors. Yes Lucas should be held to a higher standard as an idol, but I do also think Kpop fans in general should also at least be held to some sort of basic human decency standard. I don't think celebrating the decline of someone's mental health or potential self-harm should ever be justified. I really disagree with this idea that these vile behaviors should fall on the head of him or his fans. I think there are plenty of supporters of Lucas who simply did their best to call out the harassment and racism and the most extreme behaviors we've seen. I don't believe we deserved how we were treated for calling out racism and harassment, especially due to the lack of clarity of this case. I'm not interested in arguing for his innocence. But I feel it's right to call out the extremely disproportionate hatred and harassment he has received. I feel it's necessary to point out the very real hurt he has suffered. I believe even if he was guilty of the worst (inaccurately presented) accusations levied against him, it doesn't justify attempts to put his family's lives in danger. Again, these were highly visible harassment campaigns, often trending on Weibo - meaning the doxxing of his family was very highly visible. Speaking for myself, I am not interested in helping him redeem himself in the eyes of the public. That is his responsibility. I'm mostly concerned with the ignorance, apathy, and cruelty human beings (Kpop fans) are often capable of showing other human beings. The way he and his family and even his fans have been treated by the worst actors can never justified. What touched me the most about the documentary is the humanity of Lucas, his friends, and his family. How he presented himself to be a flawed human being who nevertheless is loved and cared for by his family and friends. I think that's really what all of us can ever hope to be, at least speaking for myself. I am no better than Lucas is what I'm saying, I am only the person I am today through my mistakes and with the love and support of the people kind enough to love me through everything. I am not interested in his success or failure. I wish for him and his loved ones to be treated like human beings. I wish for myself to be treated as one as well. Thanks for taking the time to make this video and for sharing your thoughts. I do think some nuance may be missing due to the language barrier, but that's not something you can control. I also think how we respond to media is also very personal. I had a seemingly different response to the documentary than even some of my own friends, but I think that's because my main focus was really more on just seeing if he was alright and if his family were all ok after everything. I do ask that those who do not feel comfortable supporting him refrain from joining in on the mocking and harassment of him, his family, and his fans. I wanted to remind those of you who have legitimate and understandable concerns that these hate campaigns are fueled and expressed in the language of prejudice, racism, classism, and bigotry. It's alright to have concerns about him; it's alright to want to do the morally right thing. I do not believe joining on the harassment and adding to anyone's pain is the way to do it, nor is it the type of behavior that will lead to a healthier and safer world that we all wish for. It's not up to me nor any of his fans to regain anyone's favor. He can do that himself. I leave that to him.
I wasn't going to say anything but after hearing your points, SM never clarified anything after releasing these two episode documentaries. They should've said whether he was guilty or not. I doubt he did any of those things that he was accused of but the fact that this company did nothing to clear anything up and made him drop a vague apology which made people think he was guilty. Btw, they also need to clear up Seunghan's situation before bringing him back to Riize. Sorry for the long comment.
I can't trust anything SM say. This label, that was known for poor treatment toward their Chinese idols, suddenly trying stick by Lucas in particular. Why him out of all the Chinese artists that were treated like crap? Where was this effort when their late idols mental health was so bad that it resulted in fatal consequences? In this documentary, nobody talked about how to make things right, how to pay back the mental damage to the victims. Is he sorry about his career or about the women he manipulated? If lucas wants redemption, he can do better then this. This doc sucks ass, its gonna backfired on him, korean public are usually unforgiving. What is SM trying to sell us here?
girl there are no women apart from musty ass sasaengs that were out to get him after he exposed them
I don't agree with your first two paragraphs. Just because someone has a history of doing X, doesn't mean they can't change. Even companies CAN learn from their mistakes (not saying thats the case here, but having the mentality that "they did this in the past so they'll never change" is highly detrimental and unrealistic imo). The idol industry has evolved. Contracts were worse in the past, and treatment of foreigners were worse as well. In no way am I saying they're satisfactory now, just saying that things change. Not to mention the most obvious reason of all - Lucas has made them the most money compared with the foreign idols from before. Please do NOT pin the blame of suicides on a company. that is disrespectful to the illness. it's way more complicated than that, and none of us fans have even a sliver of the full picture. I've been closely exposed to people that are struggling with depression and anxiety, and in my experience, there is no "one person" to blame. There is also no "one person" that could've / did save them (except ultimately themselves) in the end. It's not that simple. Rashly making something the scapegoat isn't going to solve or help anything.
Ngl it just felt so weird watching sm making such a high quality documentary for an artist that was "flamed" or was cursed badly by the internet. Like he wasn't even an active artist rn and yet he got such a special treatment from the ceo. Bcus normally, they would just post something on their social and be like hey im back im sorry bla2. It's just felt weird and the documentary felt fake. Ofc im only talking about the concept of the documentary, not on what he has done (allegedly or not) bcus i left the fandom before he did the mess, so idk what actually happened. Like im sure the people who watch this video is his fans or his former fans and yall know better than me
my personal stand on this whole incident is, its his private life and as outsiders we have no right to judge him on that as we dont know the full truth. recently I read that the girls accusing him admitted it all being made up. on the other hand, in this documentary he himself carries himself as if he actually did all those things. in the end its not like he did a serious crime. he apologized more than once and this documentary clearly shows how much he changed and also how much this incident changed him. everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect. if he is honestly sorry about it, he has all right to get a 2nd chance. its not right to cancel him, I think the 'possible crime' isnt as serious as to not forgive him. it would be different if he did sth more serious, like rape, illegal filming of woman, murder etc.
SM won’t tell us what happened because at the end of the day the whole scandal started from within the company 😤 it’s been a known thing since 2018 that Wayv had sasaeng staff and when Lucas finally blew up and put that girls pic on bbl and fans found her IG and sent d3ath thr3ats she retaliated. Do y’all understand why he’s being given a second chance? Because the company at the end of the day all fingers will end up pointing back to them and ofc they want to save face as usual. That’s why at the end of his 2nd documentary he says now he has staff he can trust and in the first doc his friend is telling him not to be so trusting of ppl. It’s funny how SM artist are suing and soomans own niece left. Yet chris Lee is trying to come out as a bright light that saved Lucas life 😒 he even used Lucas last yr when he posted that pic of them together the same day he was trying to sell shares to kakao and baekhyun announced he was suing him. Then when that blew over he deleted their pic. Sorry for your rant lol I’ve kept up with the scandal since day 1 and is just clear he was set up so yes he serves redemption
This is probably why they are strangely and weirdly forgiving Lucas giving him a second chance at his career. There is definitely something that they want to cover up on their end. The situation is just so odd to me, and rarely happens in the KPop industry.
The only thing I don’t understand is what SM/Lucas is trying to achieve with this documentary. Is it an attempt to clear his name? Without addressing the elephant in the room, for sure, there is no closure. Is it an attempt to relaunch his career? He can do it without the documentary. Especially SM being protective of their idol (esp the foreign one) is so unheard of.
While I did enjoy the documentary, it felt almost too professional. And guilty or not, I feel like the allegations should have been cleared once and for all. After almost 3 years and still no definitive answer to what the heck happened, it’s starting to get old. While I do hope that Lucas has sincerely changed and wants to do better, it sucks that we’ll never know what happened for real.
I think his docu was heartfelt in some instance but of such poor taste. The second one almost felt like a pity party smh. As a fan im perplexed. I can't help but compare this to woojin's documentary, where they came in w the receipts proving his innocence. Like why did they not do that w Lucas given most them accusations were proved to be false is beyond me. Where is the law suit? Where is the consequences? Where is holding them accountable? Sm did him dirty. Sm is still doing him dirty. Sm will most probably do dirty to him in the future. Sm doing dirty to nct and wayv. Just let the man be himself!
Thank you so much for this video!. The way you talk about your point of view makes everyone, people that support him or not, or even people that aren’t familiar with the case want to sit down and watch because of how good you are at presenting it honestly
i personally would give him a second chance.
Let’s be real if it was any other idol getting in his exact scandal it would probably have a different outcome as sm would probably somewhat look into it at least and fans would defend them more
SM won’t look into it because the whole scandal stemmed from within the company and they ofc won’t point fingers at themselves
There is literally no noise on reddit, where will they market him? Japan, SE Asia? With majority of korean and Chinese fans moving on from him.
i’m so confused by this documentary. at this point it seems like sm has a lot to offer lucas, but lucas has very little to offer sm so i don’t understand why sm is putting their reputation on the line for him. lucas doesn’t even seem particularly enthusiastic or dedicated to music. i really hope that they aren’t doing this just for the fans. i’m getting weird codependent vibes between him and his fandom and i hope i’m wrong.
If he had actually killed himself, yall would be acting SO different. Not even discussing this or that about his word, just looking for someone to blame on. Some of yall jus be hating for free, the same way it was with Garam and Jimin.
With garam and jimin every thing got clear, with Lucas nothing is clear, so what ever he says or made to say, will not be taken on face value...
Well he didnt kill himself so whats your point?
I remember, when the problem happened, lots of fans posted proof of what actually happened and Lucas wanted to defend himself. Like, if you as a korean blame someone, in this case an idol for defending themselves of getting harassed once, twice or even more, then we have a serious problem. As a human how can you blame someone for that?, does that mean that they have no right to defend themselves?. Then more allegations happened and SM didn’t even take any action on the matter. There was proof, i remember lots of fans posting about the girl making the allegations and even with that SM just decided to keep silent and then kick out Lucas. I don’t think this is just a game or something, that’s actually something really serious and a lot of companies make their idols take responsibility on the matter, even if it’s not their fault. I do think what’s actually happening right now is that SM made him apologize in a way that seems like it was all his fault and he’s actually begging SM for a second chance. And that actually makes me mad.
SM needs to understand that people won't support lucas until they explain everything
I've tried to understand the situation since it started and honestly failed and just ended up not caring about him much anymore, just to make things simpler for me. However, the way SM is carrying out this redemption thing is kinda unheard of I feel, even for other male idols in the company. Like yes, they did leave him in limbo for a while, but most idols do that, with little clarification on whatever the issue is unfortunately, and then may come back later. Idk, it's just making me wonder why is SM putting this much effort in now.
I hope I'm not the one ruining someone's life. If I were like those people, I would be worse than sasaeng. he's so young, I feel sorry for him having to be in such an upsetting and strange situation. I hope he continues to be enthusiastic about starting everything from zero. I hope he believes many people will support him. The situation he experienced was not the only one who experienced difficulties, his parents, family, closest friends, and even his loyal fans also experienced difficulties.
Thank you for making this by the way. I really like the points you made, I fully agree with you to be honest.
Thank you for putting subtitles in your videos. I'm often out and about whenever I watch videos from you, so seeing these subtitles help a lot. ❤
It’s not an admission of guilt at all cause the scandal was him dating & asking his gf for gifts 🤦🏻♀️ Add to that it’s completely false it was an attack by a known nct sassaeng after he tried to protect the members from them & put the sassaengs on blast on bbl. You’d also know it’s no admission if you realized the subs were actually inaccurate. Not you bringing up the Jessica situation 💀 Difference is Jessica put the group on a back burner did things that negatively affected the group then got an ultimatum. Lucas is innocent and got screwed over by a bunch psychos in the WayV Chinese fandom
Them not saying eyplicitly what he did is the one thing that really stood out to me watching it as well. Like, how can he ask his fans for forgivness if we as fans don't even know what exactly there is to forgive? The whole "incident" was really sudden and also quiet messy with the amount of accusations and not clearing that up is something that will always follow him in his future career and cause a lot of his fans mixed feelings about supporting him again (including me). And of course it's a bit weird to reenact all those scences and to film the dinner with his friends, but that's just how PR works. But the whole effort of this documentary looses so much value by letting out the most important part. Your point about him not apologizing to the people he (probably) hurt, was something I haven't considered before, so thanks for pointing that out! I think I'll continue to watch the situation before I make a final decision on wether I want to support him in the future or not, even though I don't really think that SM will address the accusations again
Something I am extremely confused about is why sm is going this far? Now im not here to talk abt the allegations, bcs at the end of the day they are still that, allegations. But removing this aspect, sm trying to soft launch a career again for him makes absolutely no sense from a financial or ethical stand point. Again, while what hes been accused of are all still allegations, there is no denying that lucas's reputation has taken a major blow over the years. A looooooot of people in korea, china, and overall internationally have been VERY vocal abt their dislike for lucas. Whats even more confusing is that talent wise, he doesn't have much to offer either. He cannot sing, rap, write, produce, or really dance. If he was some musical genius maybe it would be a little easier to understand, but he isnt. So that begs the question, WHY? By you, as a company, continuing to show support for him, lots of different fans are going to be angry AT YOU bcs of his horrible reputation. But then also, he just doesn't have what it takes to be an artist, let alone a solo artist. You're actively putting time, energy, effort, and MONEY into a man a lot of people have left in the past. WHY not give this dedication to idols under your company who actually have a clean reputation and good talent??? I truly do not understand it at all.
I think Lucas is the pet project of ex CEO of SM who got demoted after all the kakao takeover. He is here to show if he can relaunch an artist as controversial as lucas, he deserves more.
I think the allegations were not true and their trying to save their reputation and embarrassment for immediately kicking him out without taking action to defend himr
@@lisa.222 But he wasn't immediately kicked out? He was put on hiatus for like 2 years
sm didnt clear anything at all, it just sounds so vague thorough the documentary
very clear, concise, and measured video, thank you for this
I'm not going to support him, male idols (and men in general) get away with way too much and the way everything about this case is so vague, it leaves an uncomfortable feeling for me personally. I can't support someone if I don't know 100% that they're innocent. And by that I don't mean "proven innocent" by his own fans via Twitter or screenshots. + Tbh he's probably one of the least talented idols in the industry anyway, just a pretty face so idk if his music will be even good.
The scandal wasn't a law suit or something like that. It in itself was a bunch a screenshots and twitter, so it was debunked by the same means. The accuser was anonymous and so were the people debunking it. You want an official court statement saying that he is innocent?
This is my theory: Lucas accusation was proven to be false and to rebuilt their image (SM) they decided to reopen the doors for Lucas. But why? That’s what we’re going to know in a few years…
Well from what i had observed lucas is indirectly asking for sorry from saesangs as they are a huge thing.One thing is clear for sure SM is one of those companies who have ties with saesangs, You see the woman who has framed Lucas was still aorund Way V and she was way closer than before. SM never clears anything as taeyongs case was also cleared by dispatch not by SM. So luacs is not to be held responsible this man has changed completely his face his eyes and you can clearly feel it. But trust SM will never clear anything, Whether it is a drunk and hit case of kangin or any other sandal of the company they never clear anything. And saesangs had always been a huge part of SM's artist promotion thay had a long history with saesangs.
No until him and his company address everything in detail and not just vaguely apologizing for whatever happened just so he can launch the solo career.
Imo it's a little unfair that some extremely talented members in NCT will never get the care that Lucas gets from SM or ever have a chance for a solo stage and opportunities as an individual like Lucas will. I'm not saying he should be punished for his mistakes or treated badly but I think it's a little strange to be rewarded for them too. I think considering Lucas's skill level imo they it would be more fair to redebut him in a new group that is marketed for global audiences, it would be better mentally for him too to share the burden on stage and off with other people. Even tho the doc is kinda off putting I do get the feeling that he actually has changed in a lot of ways so I wish him the best!
lucas isnt affiliated with nct anymore so his solo activities dont relate to nct members solo activities (or lack of)
I have a mixed feelings about him. A part of me is happy, yet, i doubted if he was ever innocent. The things that he felt sorry for, it is ambigious because there's always a possibility that the bad things he did can be the truth, who knows. Yet, i believe more that, he was sorry for sharing those sasaeng pictures probably. I feel weirded out because the "victims" who shared proofs of his wrongdoings were never to be seen again ( from what i remember, one of them actually sold their account after the scandal blew up. Also, another one, what kind of person who sent their private selfies with watermarks? ). So, i shall give him the benefit of doubt before i can completely support his solo.
The way SM manages is not ethical, prioritizing personal benefits over the well-being of others. The negative impact on others is never considered for improvement. If Lucus is innocent, why didn't help the artist from the beginning? Instead of just suspending Lucus, why suspend the entire group, poor WayV? Even if the fault lies with Lucus or not, the way SM handles it seems unjust.
Congratulations Lucas for being strong and being alive, as many L-ofds could not stand the pressure of the Korean Toxic Media and took their lives. We are always with you, keep strong and with our heads up always, beat the inbecile and needy happiness of love and tell them that you will not give them the taste of crying tears of falsehoods in your grave as they did with the Jonghyun, Moonbin, Lee Sun-kyun and other artists who brought gloring and recognition to Korea, and they didn't even take it into consideration. In the end, live very well and happy Lucas, do a lot more success for fans to applaud. CONGRATULATIONS.
I feel bad for him but I think we'll see overtime if he's changed or not.
Well, we all know Lucas isn't the problem here but SM is. They have been handling his situation like they always did. Put out a general apology, put the accused person on hiatus for about half a year to a year and then proceed like nothing has happened. This has always worked out for them. The problem with Lucas' situation is that they put out the apology letter after the first alleged victim accused him of cheating and gaslighting. Then multiple more people accused him of other stuff but SM never reacted to that. And that's where it became messy. If we compare this to other SM artists scandals this becomes even clearer. If I remember correctly, shortly after Lucas' incident Kangta was accused of his alleged former girlfriend to have cheated on her with a friend of hers (both were celebrities as far as i remember). They put out an apology letter, canceled his upcoming CB (this happend right after his MV teaser was posted btw) and had him come back about half a year later. Same with Yunho who was accused of violating Covid regulations and visit a club that's allegedly known for you-know-what, which is illegal in SK. Apology, hiatus, CB several months later. This happened to Irene and Chanyeol as well. The difference for Chanyeol is that he was fed up at one point and sued the person on his own. Some people still think he did that and want him out of the group. That SM holds on to Lucas doesn't surprise me. So far the only person they ever kicked out after a scandal was Kangin and that only after he was charged for drunk driving twice and assault once. I was expecting him to participate in WayV's CB (was it Kick Back?) but I think they hesitated to do that as things didn't had died down as they had probably expected them to do. That they removed him from NCT and SuperM and debut him as a soloist was unexpected tho. Especially after they released that SuperM CB trailer at SMTown 2023. I assume that they indended to have him come back with SuperM, look how it goes and then put him back into NCT. Then the whole SM vs LSM mess happened, Kakao took over and he suddenly left his groups. From my perspective Lucas doesn't have to redeem himself as he seems to be the victim in this case. My first point would be the time that the accusations came out: right after his MV teaser dropped. This has happened mulitple times already for other idols as well and seems to be an indicator that the accuser just wants to create the most damage possible rather than wanting justice. And as someone else has already pointed out, this happened shortly after he outed a sasaeng and we all know they don't take these thing well. Remember when Baekhyun showed his sasaeng's number when they called him. The person denied everything, turned it into a witch hunt against him where he had to apologize for his actions just to come out months later to confirm it was true and apologize. The accusations are the second point. As messy as the whole situation is, these accusations were as well. We also all know that if one person gets accused others follow (note the mass bully accusations that mostly turned out false). From cheating and gaslighting the first accuser later went on to him pressuring them to have s*x. When they were told that that's actually r*pe and they could/should sue if this was true, they backed up and said it wasn't as bad. Chinese fans also pointed out that their writing was inconsistent and seemed to be translated by a (good) online translator. One person even claimed to have been in a gay relationship with Lucas. All in all there were like three or four people who all just backed up the OP's accusations without providing any proof for it. As far as i know NCTzens even paid an online investigator because they were fed up with SM and took things into their own hands. Turned out the OP who claimed to be a chinese woman apparently was an indonesian man. I personally believe that if he actually did all that he wouldn't have been deemed capable of being an idol by SM anymore and they would have kicked him out, as there is always the possibility of him doing it again and being exposed again. He also seemed to still be on good terms with his labelmates. The one reason why I didn't believe he did all that from the very beginning never changed tho. As mean as this may sound, I think he just isn't intelligent enough to pull that off. When you see him on shows he always seemed to be very straightforward, somewhat unaware of the (emotional) situation of others sometimes, a rather happy-go-lucky, naive person. To be able to screw multiple people over, gaslight them and whatnot over the course of several years one needs to have a huge amount of (evil) intelligence, that I just don't see in him. There are several people in SM, even in his own group that I think have this kind of intelligence in them, he is not one of them.
I only believe the evidence, if there's no solid proof ,How many "ex-girls" in this case but none can provide a photo of him with a girl, or in hotel or any clear voice record that can prove their relationship? The strongest evidence now is only "apologize", it's not gonna work, and the case would never be end.
I do believe that everyone should be redeemed from their past mistakes, but it depends on the situation with Lucas is very vague and we don’t know from either side what really happened so it’s very tricky where to stand on this matter but if we compare it to another Idol who deserve being in jail is Kris wu what happened to him was very clear to us as an audience where we can distinguish the victims from their perpetrator. (I’m surprised that SM is trying to redeem Lucas while locking away seunghan in the basement hahaha jk, I hope he comes back)
The incident involves a lawsuit, the people who made the allegations are being demanded for defamation. Since it’s illegal to do any specific mention of whoever you’re suing or do anything to make the public be on your side they cannot legally mention the elephant in the room, they can at least call it the incident. Also lawsuits last for long periods of years usually, Lucas case it’s complicated because it involved various people, stalking and stealing personal information(taking photos without permission etc), defamation, etc. So I don’t think they would be able to talk about with all honesty for years, and when they would be able they probably wouldn’t find it necessary, hopefully he’s back on track and even better by then
Is SM and Lucas actually sued?
@@user-tu8un3dp7p Idk the details but as for how is unfolding it looks like there’s a back and forward also I’m not quite sure where is taken place since he is a hongkong citizen, the company is Chinese (labelV), and the defamators are from distinct countries
Law was involved here? That's news to me. Where did you get this info?
he had done the right thing by exposing the sasaeng, but this was a reward for the good he did. I pity him I think some of the accusations he received are true, and the rest are just exaggerated by haters and the media. I think Lucas is also a victim here. Maybe he is aware that the behavior he shows to the public is not all that can be accepted by other people and invites haters to continue to blaspheme and blame and even exaggerate the situation at that time. Therefore he said "if I hadn't done that, something like this would definitely not have happened." There is a lot of evidence whose truth is not validated, much of it proves that all the accusations are false. But I think this is a bad habit of SM not handling it well, this is also related to him being an idol from China. It would be different if he was a Korean idol. But I like the songs he releases, I understand the meaning he wants to convey to his listeners. Hopefully we don't become "downers" in someone's life. If we were like that, we would be worse than sasaeng.
as a wayv stan, this just doesn’t sit right with me at all. his actions hindered wayv’s career so much and sm basically left them in the basement for 2 years. now that they’re finally gaining traction and getting more activities again sm is pulling this??? the six members went through so much and are finally gaining more momentum in their career but as always sm is sabotaging wayv and not letting them shine the way they should have long ago. instead of putting more resources to promote wayv better sm is directing their resources into helping him redebut??? it just doesn’t make sense at all because with the amount of fans he lost i doubt he’d be bringing much profit to sm. is he going to make it up to wayv for being the cause of their 2 years of inactivity? is he going to make it up to hendery for his missed unit opportunity (and we all know hendery already doesn’t get many opportunities to begin with)? who’s going to make it up to them? he’s the one who caused all of these yet the company is so hellbent on allowing him to come back, then what about the innocent members who were unfairly impacted? do better for your existing artistes, sm.
Im so sick of this narrative. Wayv was suffering because SM choose to let them. SM will ALWAYS have budget to do more things for Wayv but they choose not to probably because they hate their chinese subunit. They take advantage of this awful situation by having Lucas post on Instagram every so often to be reminded of Wayv not to detract attention because the OT23 crazies will spam on Wayvs posts, listen to wayvs music to support lucas and hope he comes back. Theyre cheap and using controversy as promotion while making the already bad looking guy look even worse. Even with Lucas they were treated badly but they used the ambiguity of OT6 v OT7 as an excuse to ignore Wayv. It doesnt matter if a member is gone the lack of albums was completely the fault of SM. Although it is uncertain as to lucas' innocence please do not say he was ruining wayv, the members he still talks to to this day. Hes seperated from them and wayv isnt promoting anything right now except Tens solo debut which was already brushed under sms rug because theyve planned a Wish's debut and Taeyongs mini and dreams comeback all in a sibgle month.... they couldnt do that for wayv because they were afraid of boycotters even though they kicked him out anyways. Anyways sorry for the rant... in sumarry its not that dozen hurt wayv its sm that used his bad image to ignore wayv.
@@broskijoeski127 i respect your opinion, and i agree everything was definitely sm’s fault - that’s why i asked them to do better for wayv. but we also can’t deny sm obviously put more effort into promoting wayv before the lucas scandal happened. it was still way less than how they promoted 127 & dream, but it was certainly better than how they treated wayv after this lucas incident blew up. so i don’t think it’s unfair to say that lucas was the reason behind sm throwing wayv into the basement. do you really think sm would put them on basically a 2 year hiatus if not for lucas? no. before the incident, they had 1 single, 3 minis and 1 full album within slightly more than 2 years. after that, they only had 1 mini and 1 full album in the same period, 2+ years. i think that says a lot. and wayv waited for a whole year to come back with phantom when the songs were actually recorded much earlier (it was probably planned for awhile after the unit tracks) but wayv had to wait for so long to release it because of what happened to lucas. sure, how everything turned out was sm’s fault, but lucas definitely has his share of blame too, it was also said that the members were disappointed (as they should be). sm has history of mistreating their foreign and especially chinese artistes yes, so that’s their fault, but the truth is also that because of what lucas did they neglected wayv even more even though the members are all innocent. if not for what lucas did, would sm have cancelled hendery’s unit? would they have summoned kun back to the company in the middle of the night to scold him? all i’m saying is lucas certainly had a part to play in wayv’s predicament and not just sm. wayv were on the way to gaining more attention in the industry with kick back, then this happened, and now that they’re back with a full album (and planning for a new mini in 2024 q2) and getting more gigs like kcon and music festivals, sm is trying to redebut lucas again. i just don’t understand why, it seems like they just don’t want wayv to be in the limelight. as for ten’s debut being in the same month as taeyong’s comeback and wish’s debut (dream’s comeback is not in the same month), i was honestly annoyed with sm initially too but after thinking through it, sm probably wanted to arrange taeyong’s comeback as early as possible because they don’t know when he’ll be called up for enlistment. and for wish, they probably wanted the timeline to coincide with smtown tokyo so they could introduce them during the concert. they possibly also could not delay ten’s solo anymore as it has already been postponed for so long, and any further delay would cause even more backlash from the fandom, that’s why all three ended up in the same month.
@@SplattersofFun I can't leave a full response yet but what you're saying is perfectly fair, I just hate scandals especially this one because even though the person who starts them is blamed there are many things people ignore. It goes back to lucas but its the fault of SM for any damage done to wayv. They cant just cancel the groups activities for one member. It really makes me mad. I cant fathom their reasoning for bringing back lucas. In his defense, hes been an idol all his life idk what else hed do, be a cashier at a convience store? Sm clearly has something cooking up with this Lucas propaganda video and what I was getting at was they wanted to burry it in with all these comebacks (I thought nct dream was having a comeback on the 7th? So like Feb 13, 24th and today for nct wish then dream a week later) so not everyone would talk about it at once. Once again SM interfering with NCT, not the fault of that man but the malicious intent of a company because they could have picked ANY other time.
As someone who hopes lucas is cleared I hate this documentary. Its vagueness would only make people think hes guilty. The way it adressed nothing since the framing seems so ambiguous. Like you can take any quote and let it fit your perspective. He says something about it feeling strange to hear other people talk about things he didnt do yet also says I regret doing it without saying what he actually did or what people are saying to avoid clearing rumors. Also everything in this video had to be approved by SM so i dont really trust it at all. Does SM want to protect both Lucas and the account that first spoke out? Why dont they just drop him!?! Is it because of their pride and it would look bad on the conpany? But they could really just let him fade away instead... My only wish as an nctzen is for SM to reveal their research so I can be in peace. I might be blind sided but a rumor that evolved from the stalker sasaeng about being a playboy and scam boyfriend turned into sexual assalt criminal deviant ruining his career shouldnt be taken lightly. Its great everyone wants to protect the victim but that also means the demanding of action from SM other than just putting him on haitus for some years.
This is such a confusing situation, nothing is confirmed so it's difficult for me to even try to make a judgment on whether he can be redeemed or not.
I've watched the 2 parts of the "documentary" videos, I liked the 1st but the 2nd one made me feel weird. The fact that we waited years just for them to not actually talk about "the incident"... I think SM kept him because he had a huge following but honestly I don't think he can make it as a solo artist. He was very famous for his good looks (that's why he passed the audition as a model - what i think he should have sticked to from the start-) but not for his singing or dancing. I don't doubt Lucas has been dealing with depression and it's clear to me he's lost his shine. He used to be my favorite when he debuted because of his humour and spontaneity which he addresses by saying he was immature back then ... They're trying to rebrand him, he was the joyous giant baby now he's gonna be the tortured fallen artist. I don't think this comeback is gonna work.
What did he do wrong that he needs redemption from? first of all I don’t think he did anything and it’s all lies and has been proven to be lies and second of all being a f**kboy isn’t a crime when all parties involved are consenting adults, a lot of your favs are f**kboys especially outside of kpop and openly admit to it and are on only fans so again what exactly is it people are complaining about and upset about except their own personal vendetta against Lucas for whatever stupid reason they’ve made up ruining peoples lives and reputation over bulllsh*t, some things can be forgiven but people creating false accusations against people and trying to ruin them for their own self reasons, can not be forgiven, and I hope whomever did this against Lucas get their karma, and don’t get it twisted I can put my bias of anyone aside if they’ve done something wrong, no one is above approach and I do think people should be held accountable but I also believe in redemption if people are willing to do what one has too to redeem themselves but the case of Lucas I honestly dont see what he did was wrong, you got people making excuses for big bang seungri and what he did and forgiving him and we know he’s guilty of what he did and it was really messed up but wanna act like whatever they think lucas did was the worst thing in the world when it was nowhere near what seungri did so people definitely have a personal vendetta against lucas and been to negatively effect his career and I’ll never forgive those people
i think there are lots of things we don't know about the situation *and* himself in general-whether you describe yourself as being for him, against him, or mayhaps somewhere along the continuum. i've read the accusations, the posts debunking the accusations, *and* the posts debunking the debunking posts, and i can only conclude that it feels like there are both truths and lies in all of them. what i (personally) believe for sure is that he *did* do some stuff in secret with his fans-though what stuff they were and how severe remain a mystery. what i think is interesting (+ depressing, i suppose) to look at is lucas' circumstances in c-fandom spaces prior to the accusations. many lumis think that he was framed by a conspiracy of sasaengs for calling them out during a wayv variety show shooting, & that many non-sasaengs in the country (definitely not all of them) already disliked him simply for having mixed ethnicities (half-hong konger half thai) + tan skin. and if my observations were right, i did read that some folks ended up harassing his family after the accusations were dropped-which is unacceptable regardless of whether you believe in the accusations or not. but we can also see that he's done some "typical" kpop idol wrongdoings too, like making fun of a member's physique. though in general he was well-accepted by nctzens across the world, he already had people disliking him for being presumably just a pretty face. heck, even the "dozen" joke came out before the accusations! (on a side note: i appreciate that you didn't mention the joke here. it detracts from the main issue of the accusations) he's always had a mixed bag rep i guess. tbh i've predicted(?) this sort of thing coming from him, albeit not in the form of a documentary. i assume he's the kind of person who would want to have an avenue to explain himself because to him, saying he's sorry on ig+weibo twice isn't gonna make it. but yea, like what you've said in this video, the framing of the docu is quite... ambiguous. if anything, it's going to make ppl who alr dislike him to dislike him more for being manipulative, and the ppl who alr love him to love him more for being honest. i don't see a lot of people on the "against-lucas" side be swayed; if anything, they become more disgusted by him. it's not for us the public to accept his apology-it's the very fans he did some stuff with (whatever and however severe it is) that he didn't even mention once. tbh i appreciate the gesture as much as i'm on the fence with all this. it's a... peculiar bare minimum if you ask me. if (and this is a huge if, don't take this as me defending him) i decided to kinda like him back, it would be hard to ignore everything as the accusations have tainted his rep for me. he'll live with this weight forever, that's for sure.
anyway amazing take!! i've watched your other videos and loved them. subscribed
I feel that as fans we think these stars owe us something . I want to see them sing and dance. We don’t know any of these idols. The thing with Lucas was that he acted immature. He is a beautiful man and he lied to these girls. He was a player. But it takes two to tango . Those girls were also responsible. You can’t buy love, their parents should have told them that. Look he was dishonest but he is young. This was a life lesson not a crime. If it was half the men we know ( cheating) would be in jail. He is young and we all make mistakes this is not something that he can’t redeem himself . He deserves to come back . He learned a life lesson . And a hard lesson with all that work to be an idol and to lose 2 years. And as women we need to see what we bring to a relationship and short change ourselves and settle for less than what we deserve. I for one as a Superm and Wayv fan look forward to his comeback.
Werent the allegations proven to be false...
I don't think any lable has made a documentary to relaunch a artist after a scandal, this is true kdrama style.
No one could've said it better I completely agree with the points made.
I wish kpop stans would get minimal law training or some form of common sense, so they would realise that a person being accused of smth online does not equal actual criminal accusations. You can accuse anyone of anything online. Prosecutors, however, must have evidence to accuse you.
An idol being accused of something online… their company (with their extensive set of lawyers, PR team, etc.) being unable to deny the allegations, clear his name, threaten to sue for slander and forcing their idol to apologise (explicitly for THEIR “wrong actions”) is incriminating enough. The only reason he hasn’t been charged with anything is because the victims did not press charges - as the majority of abuse victims globally don’t, mind you.
@@katr_i_na okay, mr prosecutor. I rest my case
@@katr_i_nawho is the victim? You know it, no one knows, because it's just anonymous, you believe it?
thank you for your honest and neutral reaction I think it is refreshing to hear an impartial view from someone who follows Lucas situation I agree with your commentaries on how this documentary did him no good to answer or even resolve the scandal, in fact for many people it could be confusing as it adds more imagination and assumption Similarly I cannot say whether or not he deserves any redemption to be an idol again, but he still a lot of fans seemingly.. despite on hiatus he actually gained 3 million new followers on his ig instead of losing, so that's probably the reason SM is banking on him unlike others, and about his accusations.. his accusations were never proven to be true and the alleged victims have no verification from any reliable human beings.. they remain anonymous random "trolls" on the internet until today.. I mean the accusers could have come forward with blurred names and faces, and being interviewed by reliable journalists to verify their stories, but it never happened.. not any of his four accusers in the past 2 and half years.. Idk but I'm inclined to believe that he is not guilty of what he was accused of, at least most of it, idk he gets the back from the company as well as from other idols of his labelmates.. both his seniors and his former members in the industry.. thinking of them as they are the ones who truly know Lucas as a person, unlike many of us in kpop fandom, I think that says something Otherwise it is really strange that SM is being vague about it, if they want to stand behind him they should be more straightforward to defend him, and if they think he is guilty and not worthy they should have ended his contract and release him whatever it is we shall observe when he debuts later, and see how the public perception of him, and whether he is really as untalented as people make him be (I really see no association between being "talentless" and "guilty" but those appear to be the attack points to many ppl who insists on him being guilty, I mean they even call him "ugly", at least that one is so much hateful and untrue), or whether SM is right to put their trust on his popularity..
for everybody saying they aren't sure if Lucas is innocent or not, he is! the screenshots that were used as proof of him texting his "girlfriends" featured a lot of odd grammar and things a native cantonese speaker like lucas would not make under any circumstances. several of the accounts that posted their confessions were deleted within a week, can't be linked to any other users on other platforms, and are connected to saesang accounts. All the images in posts used as proof can be found online, as they were previously posted from various social media sites by lucas. i will say, this thing sm is doing makes my skin crawl. the reason they haven't put out a statement about his innocence is because of the bandwagon of hate that came afterwards. they can't offend the simpleminded fans that will defend themselves with "well he messed up a couple times" so they're putting out a whole documentary vaguely addressing the rumors? icky. not ethical. i wish lucas luck and hope he comes back to wayv/nct.
idk about the legitimacy of the other stuff you mentioned but you actually mixed up the grammar issue. lucas was making odd grammar choices when talking to them in mandarin because he is a native cantonese speaker and was mistakenly applying cantonese grammar to mandarin
@@marlasinger8274 omg my bad thanks bro
i am pretty new this correct me if im wrong , i knew about lucas since his debut but never actually stanned wayv or nct , i heard about the controversy in 2021 (i guess) nd basically assumed all of them were true even tho i had little to no info about the whole situation ,after his documentary started getting viral i digged more into this controversy nd what type of person lucas actually is , i started liking him as a person cuz he seemed bright nd bubbly nd always happy nd smiling . but after watching his documentary both the episodes , it left me quite confused about the whole situation , is he guilty ? did he actually admitted to the accusations or only admitted to him exposing the ssasengs . idk what to believe atp cuz i actually like him as an idol but all these news and rumors and accusations just left me conflicted me the whole kpop industry in general . the companies r always panicking when something like this happens to their idols nd just forces their idols to either apologize or just leave the group without much explanation and doesn't actually puts effort in finding the truth, its the fans who investigate nd try to find the truth, same with the garam situation , the accusation were never really proven to be right or false . rn idk whom to believe nd dont have any opinion on this . (i apologize for my bad english , not a native english speaker )
Guys he's innocent. The ones who accused him said that. In the documentary the regret he is talking about is when he took the sasaeng's photo.
Why would he apologise for taking saesengs photos? Another idol group member did the same and I think one of the BTS members threatened to do the same a few years back. It's not a crime to take photos of a sasaeng in fact you are doing the company a favour. Lucas did something bad that his previous members and family were disappointed about not taking photos.
@@yumesakura23 he apologized because of the culture. Or perhaps, you may aware that SM always putting their artists to apologize for trivial or little to no reasons. Take as an example; Taeyong was forced to apologizes about his "bullying" scandal. Just turns out to be some sort of fight between friends. ( Taeyong's case was closed so this is if i can recount back then ). Another example; Seunghan apologizing for smoking and have a girlfriend and guess where he is now? A hiatus. For-god-know-how-long the hiatus is.
1:45 this is not proving he's innocent, cuz is not(cuz is not denial at all ) In the end of the day the question is if you gonna forgive him and support him on solo activities or not
We’re all human. We’re all not perfect. We have to learn and grow and move on. Stop living in the past. He’s young, very talented and deserves a second chance. If you don’t like him, move on and those of us who enjoy his music, let us enjoy.
All I can read from this is SM could be using Lucas as an opportunity to try something new in the industry, an actual successful "idol redemption" arc. Lucas has been very influential in the company as of current time/generation. I just feel bothered by the possibility that SM is using him, his vulnerability, for business. The documentary alone won't bring light to the truth, because SM is probably manipulating it to their own use. The mind of businessman is scary thing, and I just hope whatever they are trying with this documentary and image re-branding, the people involved would not be further damaged. p.s. Jessica is a past case, Seunghan is a rookie. Their cases are too old and too new (this generation does not care for Jessica anymore, Seunghan have not yet established influence as much as Lucas did) So it makes perfect sense that if this is truly an evil scheme, they would do it for Lucas. There's nothing too good in this world, that is reality, SM did not do this out of good heart; now we just have to wait the profit they saw in doing this.
I felt the same ‘uncontrollable’ feeling watching his documentary. I take this documentary is all staged. I don’t even believe those guys in Hong Kong are his real best friends. it’s made as the part of LUCAS’ promotion by SM to test the water if he can still be the money maker for the company. Either his 12.1M followers on instagram are all real or not… the company will know in next few months. Who knows, his real come back would never happen if his followers won’t grow as the company expected. (It’s still 885K on his official solo account today) SM is purposely try to make the scandal as vague as possible. His apology was very loosely presented .. like he doesn’t even look at the camera when he promises it would never happen again. The whole documentary was very carefully calculated to make the best possible outcome for the situation.
Concerning the question of 'what is his plan now' he mostly talked about his resolve to be a more mature, humble, level-headed version of himself, so I think to him that is the solution. My problem is that I really wished SM told us what exactly the apologies are for although I strongly believe that the SA accusations are false. I believe so because I use the Kr*s wu and brning s*n incident as a reference seeing how China and Korea investigated the issues, even Woojin's scandal is a reference. If anything was even worth investigating it would have been by now ... we know CCP don't play. Now considering the idea that the SA allegations are fake and the bad boyfriend allegations are true I'm willing to see a redemption arc for Lucas cause we make mistakes in our youth talk less of when fame is involved, and our egos are at an all-time high.
Yes he does deserve to come back yes he does so therefore if he's guilty not guilty what he did you know people do everyday so therefore he should be back in the group and not have to worry thank you very much Misty from Tennessee👍😊✌️
I was a fan of Lucas, of WayV and NCT when all of this was going on. I gave him the benefit of doubt thinking that we would get a clear answer about what he actually did and we never got that. Sweeping it under the rug in favor of privacy for all parties involved could make sense. let me just go wild with some examples. if they get to be vague I get to theorize. The way he came back was off putting. It just felt like a manipulative tool for him to gain sympathy. It just feels icky like when you stand up to someone for hurting you and they turn it into an argument where they feel more bad than you do so you can't work through the conflict because you feel like they need to be affirmed and cheered up. Except I don't even really know what he did so it's like hearing a car crash and coming onto the scene to find three hurt individuals and one owns up to doing something wrong but won't explain what they did and then talks about how they can do better they just need another car. You should feel really bad for them because they know better now and just need another lambo to get them by. They swear they'll drive better this time. You can trust them. I can't say i'll support him again.
I think the allegations were not true and their trying to save their reputation and embarrassment for immediately kicking him out without taking action to defend him. The whole thing happened after he took action to defend hus members. I think their trying to save face and act the dudnt mess uo the whole thing.
How about explaining what really happened?!?! It is not that hard.
Sorry but he talks about himself being depressed, feeling gilty and what so on, but never thought about the victims and their feelings, for me that's stright victimizing himself to comeback to the being an idol, sorry but no. They're acting like nothing happend and if it's happend it only affected him and him only. That's so selfish if you adk me.
fr
exactly. idgaf about how he felt if he's not gonna own up to what he did before begging for forgiveness and fame
what victims exactly?the sasaengs ?
@@irvina9972 sorry but I'm not going to have this conversation right now, did you watch the video?!! And he literally admitted "the incident "
@@aimee-hyjwere the allegations not proven to be false?