Correction: I misspoke at the 3.45 mark - $0.003 isn't .003 cents, but .003 dollars, or .3 of a cent. Likewise, $0.12 was meant to be 12 cents, not 0.12. Apologies - I'm a musician, not a mathematician.
🎸 MY TOUR DATES
bit.ly/MarySpenderTour
🥁 SUPPORT PATREON
/ maryspender
MY COURSES
🎤 How To Write Songs
bit.ly/thecraftofsongwriting
🎸 Learn Fingerstyle Guitar
bit.ly/3vfo7mz
📷 How I Built My KZhead Channel
bit.ly/41JTSk2
🎛️ Learn Ableton
- How To Produce bit.ly/3Qs0rCl
- How To Perform bit.ly/3QolLIZ
✍️ MY NEWSLETTER
bit.ly/21stCenturyMusician
🎵 MY BACKING TRACKS
Apple Music apple.co/3Al6df3
Spotify spoti.fi/2VX2nu2
Bandcamp bit.ly/2UYP4Ja
📖 MY REFERENCES
bit.ly/maryspender_bibliography
00:00 - Introduction
00:51- 02:12 - Streaming: The benefits (and problems)
02:13 - 05:07 - My Spotify Stats
05:08 - 06:32 - How Spotify Pays
06:33 - 10:02 - Artists Fight Back
10:03 - 11:04 - I Need Your Help
💔 Get your signed copy of *Super. Sexy. Heartbreak.* here: bit.ly/supersexyheartbreak
Had mine ordered within a month of you starting preorders. 😁 Thoroughly looking forward to it!
Hi Mary - Good video. Just to let you know pre-ordered but sadly the postal system got 50% of the total money I paid. At least you got some of list price. NZ$53 for CD NZ$27 for shipping
Sorry to be That Guy, but you're out by a factor of 100 on your "cents" amounts, compared to what shows on the video. You're reading "nought point nought nought three CENTS" when what you show onscreen is "$0.003" or nought point nought nought three DOLLARS (one hundred times more than what you said). Can you fix, please? There's a considerable difference between the two!!!
Keep working, you are super talented and I wish you the success that you deserve.
@@copperfield3629Good point - so they actually pay 0.3 cents per stream
Thank you for bringing awareness to this issue, Mary. Not enough people know how bad of a deal most artists have when it comes to compensation from streaming services. The deal that the labels and streaming apps made behind most of the artists backs is abhorrent and needs to be made more equitable for the artists ASAP.
Who knows drake makes over a million just from 1 streaming platform alone. He's actually more famous due to streaming than radio. Streaming shows how known you really are
And when you try to “sell merch” people laugh and want a cut.
@@zagan1you absolutely have no clue how payola works do you?
Spotify isn't taking more than music retailers were back in the day, they just don't sell the music for as much money (ad revenue/revenue from subscriptions). That is practically the only difference between then and now. Edit: basically, while the artist perhaps doesn't get as much money as they should relative to recording companies, that has always been that way. The only thing that has changed is how much time or money *you* spend on it.
you do realize that we pay $10 a month for unlimited music right? how many ways does that divide? my downloaded playlist is 565 songs
I've had 27 purchases on bandcamp so far for my first album, digital purchase only. Fairly obscure and experimental ambient stuff and I just started releasing, so I'm actually quite happy with that. And from it I've made the equivalent of what 74000 streams on Spotify would have earned me. That tells you everything you need to know about Spotify and their ridiculous way of (not) paying artists. I'm not doing that to myself!
I only use bandcamp. Streaming is cancer for artists.
I’m going to seek you out Lilly (only virtually on bandcamp, please don’t panic 🤭) and have a listen. I love experimenting with ambient stuff myself so am intrigued.
It actually depends on your contract. Not everyone on Spotify is getting billionth's of a cent
I buy albums on Bandcamp because it seems to be one of the "least worst" options out there.
I don't know why you think Spotify should pay more - they are already paying 3 times more than radio play. Radio get's millions of listens with that 1 play for $.001. Spotify beats radio with more than 3 plays. Without Spotify or other streaming sources, no one would every hear of your music.
As a musician myself I'm proud of what you are doing, I don't get why so many musicians are so eager to give their music for free and even get upset if you want people to be compensated for their efforts. That same people usually later is complaining about how hard and unfair the music business is and how easy is for musicians to go into depression and mental health issues. We have to be smarter and we have to be united, big corporations like Spotify are NOT your friends nor the way to go to make things better for artists.
When I realised a bit about how things work in the music business, locally and internationally then I made some life choices, It took me 10 years to get to this point. So back in 2016 I decided to build my website and sell my tracks exclusively from there and decided not to use any type of streaming services but use social media and youtube to promote my music, it's very hard to do so but there is no shortcut for that. Twenty people bought my debut track, while I was expecting 4 to 5 people. I am far from making it a sustainable solution for survival but that is the sacrifice one has to make to set an example for others to follow, every time I am recording someone , or producing an artist, I discuss this topic with them, that is what I feel responsible for. Whether they agree or disagree with it, is up to them. Because what's the point if I complain about the streaming platforms how they are exploiting musicians / artists while I become a part of them by using their services, I am actually strengthening them to exploit people like us. This is a gamble that musicians are playing, which does help some in getting noticed globally but in the long run it is more problematic for the music industry globally than beneficial. What if the streaming services are only allowed to put up previews of the songs and act as a promotional service, they scharge the artist for the promotion and if someone likes the preview they click the link which directs them to the artists website, where they can purchase the song. Unless musicians come together, take a stand against it, boycott using the services and put pressure on a government level to make reforms , nothing will change.
Thank you, Mary. ♥️ I signed a major label deal with Epic /Columbia Records in 2005 back when the major labels had insane budgets. Rick Rubin came in to run Columbia, and in order to make room for his American Recordings artists, he dropped 14 bands in one day. I’ve been independent since 2008 and refuse to give up. It’s all I know. This circus of a “business” changes every day. I appreciate your perspective and more importantly, your perseverance. You are a genuine soul and I am always rooting for you. 🤘 I’ll PURCHASE your records immediately after watching this video. Lots of love. -MM
Man that had to have been hard . From the jubilation of being signed to then being kicked to the kerb . I just jumped over to your channel and really impressed , you carry on carrying on and prove Columbia and old mr Rubin wrong 👍
Matthew, I doubt you remember this, but we actually met in Philadelphia in March 2014. I supported you there and you were so kind and gave me advice, but also gave me a fireball shot for the first time. Drop me an email if you ever want to chat! info@maryspender.com
Thanks to Rick Beato, I understand what the label's job is. To make it simple I'd say it's making a-ah "Lesson one" failure into a-ah' "Take on me" sucess. They will help you built a great album but it has a cost. It's up to each artist to see what he wanna do. Sucess or freedom.
Cool Tell me how I'm supposed to get any of Lovebites albums? I would have to go all the way to Japan. With the way things are now it's not easy to by albums from bands unless they tour in my area. Maybe support bands by going to there shows and buying more then just the albums. By there merch. If they have VIP buy VIP. What is hurting music more is major label, major acts and people like Eddie Trunk trying to gate keep everything. Not every last band is on a major label. The more people that can hear there music across the streaming platforms the better. Why gate keep that? The other major issues is Livenation/ticketmaster.
@@tomjoad1363 it's worth noting that the label example you gave was back in the day when networking and collaborating was very different to the landscape of today.
The exact same issue with rubbish income also happens on KZhead. My saying these days is if I'm spending more than say $50 to make a video the chances of getting a return / break even are now very slim. But it wasn't always like this, wind back to say times prior to 2014 it was a very different site to produce for. It's weird, all I see is Google company share price going through the roof yet money flowing to people producing on Google products is going backwards. Thanks for your honest exposure of the music industry scam with streaming incomes.
As long as content producers continue making their videos for essentially no money, KZhead will continue to enjoy the ad revenue from the ads shown in your videos. As long as content creators continue making content for free it will NEVER CHANGE. All content creators would need to go on strike, stop making new content and delete their old videos and their entire channel so that KZhead would have no videos to run ads on. otherwise KZhead has no reason to change or even notice anything related to how you are not properly compensated. Continuing to use the limited minutes and hours of your life to create something that you will never be compensated for is like rewarding a dog with treats each time it pees on your living room carpet. You are rewarding KZhead's bad behavior and making more material for them to make ad revenue from. There is NO REASON for them to do anything different. Ever. Unless creators give them a reason to wake up and say, "OH CRAP?!!! Where are all the videos that we run ads in?!!!! Where have they gone? OH NO!!!!"
so conclusion is buy google shares instead of spending on producing content?
At the same time revenue and payments are shared between more creators than ever. Even I with a shitty dead channel somehow got an adsense payment and there are millions like mine. It might be unfair but as long as the pool is kept this wide and deep the creators who make an effort will have to share income with crap.
Yup!
Why do you think their company share prices are going through the roof?
Currently doing something similar as well: releasing our 14-track album via singles on streaming, every other month, while we also have vinyl, CDs and cassettes available to those who choose to support us. As an added bonus they get to hear the album in full a whole year before it's available on streaming in full, while going through liner notes, looking at beautiful artwork and reading lyrics. The old fashioned way. Releasing all songs on streaming one by one allows to grow that side as well (cause eventually everyone will stream that album, it's the most convenient way). Best of luck to you!
I get nothing from spotify. But they get everything from hard working artists. The amount of work that goes into making just one single song is unspeakable
Yep, and yet there are people here calling artists "greedy" lol for wanting at least something for that month of hard work. People are dumb and crazy.
Mary I've followed you off an on, love your channel. I'm so appreciative of your candor in explaining how an artist makes their money using outlets such as Spotify. To thank you for your love of music, hard work and dedication to your art and fans, I just posted my order for your first album. Looking forward to having it, thanks again - Just Joe from Northern California. :)
Love your work, Mary! Bought the album, got the signed copy! Haven't bought a cd in a long time but want to support you! You deserve success!
While I'm not a huge fan of your music, I am a huge of you as a person and artist. This video sheds a light on something that we, as listeners don't give too much thought of. Thank you for sharing!
such a beautiful backhanded compliment.
@@krusher74 Nothing in my comment is meant as an insult. It means that I find Mary's music pleasing to listen to and her musicianship is top notch, it's just not my favorite style of music. And I appreciate very much that she shared something about music streaming that we, as listeners, don't know that much about.
Hats off to you Mary for unpacking the economics of streaming. I'm always happy to pay for a CD or digital download of an artists material I like. Streaming is convenient, but I prefer to support an artist directly.
Do you buy online or from a local record shop?
@@mcburnski mostly online. My last few purchases have been from Bandcamp, Soundcloud and Burning Shed.
@@adam872 shop local. Record shops need business too.
As a whole, I have heard mainly negative feedback about Spotify and their "business procedures and work ethic". This video very much justifies the diatribe I have heard and read about Spotify. Appreciate your willingness to share your experiences, private opinions and feelings Mary! You keep it real and I'll continue to "help you out" in various platforms where you save a Seat for your Fans like me! Cheers From Across The Pond in Ohio
Yeah, I find that system of paying by shared net value, proportionate to everything else listened to on a monthly basis to be extremely unfair and biased. People who are already big and already make more money the traditional way will get payed better than the unknowns. Not to mention that it favours certain genres over others. If you just think how much it costs to produce an album by a band consiting of 5 people against an album including an entire symphony orchestra, that creates a totally unfair imbalance.
Just another parasitic tech company dressed up as “innovative” or “disruptive”.
@@Quotenwagnerianer Well ok, but where then is the cutoff? Because guess what, if you suddenly get popular, you're going to scream foul play too, and why wouldn't you? The one thing you'll never change is the famous people snowballing to even more fame and money. It sucks, sure, and I'm happy to hear how you can mitigate this without shooing away your clients... but there is a reason why it works the way it does. Same for genres, what, why would, say, clowncore be entitled to a super-proportional cut when just about everyone hates it? Just the way it is, same as cycling and TdF never being as popular as soccer or football or any number of sports. Doesn't mean you would beat the winners with a stick, does it now? This isn't inherent to spotify at all. In fact, the thing people consistently ignore is that Spotify introduced the notion of the insanely long tail-end of artists getting way, way, way more attention than they ever did before, back in 2012 and still to this day. Which is a measure of how good the recommender algos are, but they slap and that's the crucial point here: if you're small, possibly not even that great of an artist (i.e. >98% of all of us), you used to have no chance in hell to get discovered. Since 2010 or so, spotify managed to recommend your catalog by merit of how it sounds alone, and that is what drives permanent audiences and fans, not arbitrary (video recommender engines do that) metrics like current popularity and engagement. Spotify gets blasted for no good reason. There never was enough money in the music industry (especially for the "I don't have 600k subs on YT"-crowd) to allow for better rates, and if there was, Spotify would clearly be the first to distribute those funds - but that's where we reach some crude financial realities, sadly. Art just doesn't pay if you're small, and it's doubtful it would ever get much better than that.
Mary, many thanks for explaining the financial aspect of the music/streaming business and its impact on the artists. I admire and support your artistic efforts and have pre-ordered your CD, patiently waiting for its ultimate arrival. Should you ever plan a concert appearance in the mid-Atlantic region of the US, I will certainly be there.
Thank you for being brave enough to discuss actual dollar amounts and treating us like adults.
Just here to show support, we’ve very much been on the same plane and i applaud you for taking your own road. Excited to check the album out!
Go Mary, You are so clear about what you stand for. I ordered 2 copies, 1 for me and 1 to give away . Best of luck, a fan🎶🎸
I’ve got you saved/liked on Tidal, and will buy the CD. As an album collector, having a physical copy is so much more rewarding than streaming. You also make an excellent point about streaming- there tends to be an information overload, where there are several albums I want to listen to but forget.
Thanks for this great video. I think that some of the most overlooked aspects of the music industry is that 1) you can stream almost anything whilst being subscribed only to one servics, and 2) BUYING SOMETHING MEANS YOU OWN IT. This is something we should not take for granted.
Bless you, Mary! So glad you're doing this!
Thanks again Mary. Learned a lot. Looking forward to my copy of the album!
A really interesting video, as always Mary. Thanks for pointing the spotlight at this issue. I have ordered the next physical CD, and I’ve had to remind myself of this, because it’s been promoted for so long now I discovered I keep ordering it!
mary, thanks so much for sharing this critically important perspective on so many musicians' quite real & daily contention with their (our) livelihoods... and their (our) real lives.
Thanks Mary for all of the detailed explanation! Pre-ordered your CD awhile ago and looking forward to it!
It is, in my estimation, a crime what artists make for their recordings. I think you have made a very wise decision to go your own way with regards to your music and it seems to be paying off. Maybe not in millions of Euros, but millions of smiles from those of us who truly appreciate your work. I can't wait to receive your next album. It has been pre-ordered. :) Please keep doing what you do and being who you are. Your fans love you and your work. :)
in my opinion it is a crime that the royal mail subsidises deliveries blocking other countries from having mail order businesses. Things are different in europe for sure.
@@robinr22 Yeah the idea of profiting from recordings is like winning the lottery anyway.
I blame the artists lack of business education
Nonsense. That get what they deserve for being greedy. My 2c.
Kudos on your efforts! CD Baby just stopped producing CD's for distribution in the U.S., in May, so it will now be an even tougher fight for us Indies, but fight we will!🎵💪🏻
It was quite a blow when CD Baby stopped digital distribution. We did our last CD run with Atomic Disc, as they were a better deal than CD Baby. CD Baby's parent company has shifted primarily to self pub book distribution now.
@@Carrpocalypse My first indie CD ended up in the trash-both figuratively and literally-because I made the mistake of trusting CD Baby with it. Never again.
@@LukeMaynard Would you elaborate on why/how it literally ended up in the trash? Feel free to elaborate on the figurative too.
@@LukeMaynard Maybe it's just me, but I always thought "CD Baby" was a silly sounding name.
I don't know you at all, Mary Spender, but have been enjoying your work since I found you via Rick Beatto some time ago. There's something that just feels genuine about you, and that's enough for me. I can't believe that I just bought a CD, but I did - and happily at that. I wonder what the last CD I bought was, and WHEN (lol). Good luck with your endeavors and I hope you keep bringing your brand of light into this sometimes darkened world.
OK. That was the best explanation on the wacky world of digital music compensation - in my opinion. More importantly, I've subscribed, again. Now, right after I hit send, I'm hitting the link to pre-order your cd. Your voice is sooooo pleasing to my ears...smooth like velvet. I loved you and Rick B breaking down Jim Croce's Operator.
Mary you have earned every dollar for the cost of the CD in my book. Great video and I wish more artists would take this stand. I remember going to the store early in the morning on release day and popping a CD in my car on the way to work / school when I was younger. It was an exciting thing! I too use streaming services but it doesn't feel nearly as special as it used to. Looking forward to your album!
Hey Mary I am "old school". I don't stream anything. Never did never will. I enjoy buying physical digital and analog copies of my music. It's the complete experience for me. Pre-ordered your CD over a month ago and am very much looking forward to listening to it.
Ditto.
You can own a physical copy and still stream the music. Seems like hindering yourself for no particular reason. I regularly buy LP’s and CD’s to support artists, but what am I going to do? Bring a turn table then I am going for a run, walk or ride?
Thanks for taking the time to help people (like me) understand this better. No Spotify in my home - we have Qobuz and Tidal.
Wonderful insightful post Mary. Look forward to hearing the new release!
As a Gen X-er, I just flat refused to adopt the streaming service model. When I learned, from your videos no less, how much of a pittance the streaming services pay artists, I doubled down on this choice. While it cost me $66 CAD shipped, which is roughly equivalent to 35% of a days wage, I look forward to being able to listen to your first album for years to come. All with the bonus of helping a real artist follow her dreams.
So where do you listen to your music?
@@jeffrey.a.hanson Probably a CD player. If you have stacks of CDs...it's all you need. Better quality too.
@@jeffrey.a.hanson take the CD, use the CD grabber and enjoy the music in the format of your choice: mp3, mpc, flac, ape, wav, etc.
@@jeffrey.a.hanson I buy CDs to support my fave artists too. I load them into my laptop using a small read/write CD thing that just plugs into the USB port. Apple Music (I don't subscribe) automatically asks me if I want to upload the album & that's it, you can sync your library to ur other apple devices. I have an iPad so that's great but my phone is android so I steam Tidal on that when I commute.
Good luck, Mary. As a guitarist who's band tried waded into the industry briefly during the "pay for play" period out on Sunset and saw first hand how hard the professional music industry really is, I applaud your intelligence and work ethic. You deserve every break you've labored so hard to earn. I'm confident you will achieve the success you dream of reaching.
Ha "pay to play" was the single most disgusting thing bars ever concocted to wring bands dry. Their last desperation to milk as much money as they can before they declare bankruptcy. No one is going to pay $9 for a drink if they can go home and get the same drink for less. Plus at least their own mix isn't half ice on top of that.
@@MastaFrank01 Much as I agree on principle concerning the system, the deal was that each band on the card sold tickets for their performances. The promoter required a minimum off the top. Everything else belonged to the band. It was a way for a lot of name clubs on Sunset to remain open without name bands performing. We played the Whiskey and The Roxy, and the clubs were definitely hopping every weekend. Additionally, as you built your audience, if you were up and coming, you easily got noticed by A&R folks, which in the late 80's, early 90's was still an avenue that might work for a band. We got a little notice from a label but couldn't keep the band together. Oh well...life goes on.
@@Dragonsinger71 I remember a promotor asking for a percentage off the top of what we sold for tickets. Then they asked for a second band. I assume this was a fail safe to get a fresh crowd in for the second band if the first band didn't pull. We found the promoter was selling tickets online and never mentioned that to us. Then we showed up and they said we were paying for a mixer and lights person. There goes whatever cut we would have gotten from the bar for sure. We had our own mixer person, but i guess it is what it is. The lights guy thing was the most baffling because the stage was so basic and the lights were so straight forward. Basically plug and play and not much more you could do with them. There were many permutations of these schemes that I saw and heard about. We blacklisted quite a few places if they were too egregious. The potential to attract bigger labels is the only reason any band would ever put up with that nonsense. 😂
First off Mary -even already having seen some of your video content before; I love the fact that you're not suggesting someone gives a like & subscribe right off the bat without even having viewed your content to know if it's worthy of it.... Which it most certainly is; but that's beside the point! I love your musical tutorials and how you create a comfortable environment with whimsy; in addition to your valued Information! I love how you share your life, and give your viewers, and listeners personal insight - further Creating a more relaxed, and friendly environment to visit! Thank you for your valued , and helpful Information!
I rarely buy CDs these days but I do regularly albums in mp3 form, rather than rent from a streaming service. The reason for my mp3 preference is mainly that I'm a millenial and therefore can't afford to live somewhere with storage space; but I am also in favour of the idea that the artist gets (or at least, should do) a better cut of what I'm paying than when there's a physical object to ship. You mentioned bookmarking albums when streaming and then not going back to them and I'd like to thank you, because that's an experience I didn't know I wasn't having to deal with! I *love* getting a new haul of music to get engrossed in and then gradually getting to know each of the albums over the course of repeated listenings, it brings me so much joy and does wonders for my mental health. And of course, there's also knowing that if I want to hear it again, it's in my library and hasn't disappeared into the endless sea of "content", so I can find it again even if I can't remember what it was called or who it was by, so long as I'm patient.
Hi Mary, I found that really interesting and I myself, wouldn't have heard of you if it wasn't for KZhead. I am old school and brought records( vinyl ) then CD's. I personally like to have and hold something that is personal. In the old days ( showing my age now lol😂) I would buy a record from what I heard on radio or what I saw on Top of the pops. Incidentally I love your music and will definitely buy one of your CD's. I have also followed you and you most certainly lead a very interesting and informative life. I will get round to listening and watching your posts at some point. For now music is my thing and you have definitely enhanced my music. For now I wish you all the best and hope to see you in concert sometime. Lots of love Rockin' Cowboy 🤠 xx
I love everything you do. And I especially love how you keep people informed on the nuts and bolts of the industry.
So well done, Mary. Thank you. In all honesty, it has always made my stomach churn over the fact that the the creator of the art does not reap the lion's share of the profit. I'm not naive to the costs of doing business to farther the artist's product and career, but the old system of sticking it to the starry eyed creatives never seems to die.
I love it when artists take the time to make and sell CD"s, especially when they are lesser known artists. When I go to festivals I love to buy hardcopies directly from the artists. But I do have my limits and €29, or €42 after shipping, is not going to happen.
Thank you for setting this out so clear and straight! As always very informative and enjoyable at the same time. I had already preordered your album (as I did with Songbook) and I avoid Spotify for all the reasons you mentioned. A late boomer, I still enjoy listening to albums in one piece. Recently I discovered Bandcamp (OK, late to the party) and bought all your previous publications there. What I like about Bandcamp is the option to stream the songs I bought via my smartphone even if I bought them on CD. "Live in Bristol" is a favourite right now. Would it be possible to publish The Great Wave on Bandcamp? I am aware that this is a pretty marginal platform, but you'd make one of your fans very happy. If not, could you explain the reasons? And will the new album be on sale there? Greetings from Germany!
Great video! Thank you for making it! Just a note: uploading files, keeping them somewhere and streaming them - is a pretty physical thing, you do need servers and infrastructure and all of that can totally be compared to "warehouses and distribution". Most of the people see the internet and content as something that "doesn't exist in the real world", but that is certainly not the case and it does cost money "just to upload and stream".
That's indeed a good point which many people forget...but can you honestly say those costs are on par with the real-world costs of "warehouses and distribution"? I don't know numbers, and I'd really like to...but my impression is, because of the inherent efficiencies of this new digital distribution infrastructure, the "Spotifys" of today's music industry are enjoying a massive profit margin compared to yesterday's record industry business model.
Brilliant videos like this, and the one about the reality of record contracts (where you recommended the awesome book Bodies) are real must watches. Educational and compelling. I'm delighted to see my pre-order of your album does make a difference
Nicely said Mary, and good points well made. A small independent band with three albums out with a fourth on the way, we have way less follower numbers than you quote. We have come to the realisation that the streamers are simply convenient ways to share new releases with our potential audiences. We don't regard them as sources of income (although we do enjoy that medium-sized Maccas latte that we can now afford each quarter from the royalties). They are just links that we share in our communications with other media and venues we are approaching. Much more important to us is the support we receive from the DJs of radio stations (both traditional and digital) from around the globe and the music critics who write about us. They are music lovers rather than just profit takers and we still get a thrill each time we get a spin or a kind review. Best of luck with the new album, you're a talented human and deserve success for the effort you put into your art and its promotion.
This is the reason I’ve moved a lot of my listening over to Bandcamp, and through it I’ve found so many great indie artists that I never would have otherwise, and it’s based on buying albums not crumbs per stream Even then, it’s only around 20% that they take (going off of their numbers)
Great idea
Thank you for this review and explanation. I used to think streaming was better but I have decided to start purchasing physical copies of artists' work (just submitted my pre-order for your CD) because of this horrific treatment of artists by streaming and record labels.
Love how you break down the numbers. Thanks for that.
thank you for doing this Mary, really enlightening.
Thank you, Mary, for this video. What also has to change is what venues pay artists. Some don't even get paid, they take it in trade for a place to stay or a meal. That ain't right!
Uh, do you have a source for that claim? But you are absolutely right that the artists deserve more. Also, fuck Livenation/Ticketmaster
@@trashbrainnn Just my own experience. An example I've experienced - $100 for 3 hours plus you have to bring your own PA seems a bit on the low side. Also, agree with the fuck Livenation/Ticketmaster.
I use Spotify pretty much exclusively for listening, and then when I find an artist I absolutely love, I buy a physical record to both support the artist, and because I want a physical collection of my favorite music.
Interesting video. Very articulate. I used to buy lots of CDs as did my g'f. iTunes came along and the digital platforms marched along behind it. Record shops largely went bust and we began to accept low quality compressed digital content as the norm. Used spotify for a while but got tired of it quickly as the temptation is to click and if the song does not grab me straight away, then click on another. Now, I mainly consume commercial music on YT, but only if there is a video. My CD player has not been used for 8 years. But I still wish you all the best with your venture and hope it succeeds. I shall have a listen.
Interesting point you made about your relationship with the music based on your method of consumption. I’m in a different industry where instructions have the value but as my eldest is considering a career in music I’m thinking ahead on how to support his efforts in the future.. This has provided a lot of food for thought so thanks for sharing.
Great job Mary, the public really does need to understand that musicians don't make as much money as they think.
The few musicians that are making a lot of money are making other “people” even more money, but there are definitely too many musicians that didn’t or don’t make enough money for the entertainment they’ve provided or are providing. Sure, it’s a labor of love, but there’s still a lot of labor, and the bills are not forgiven and need to be paid to continue, although a few bills may be forgiven, .. when votes are sought lol
@@shipsahoy1793 Yes and it has always been that way. I've been in the business now for a long time, and some of the people that make money are part of the creative team that works with the artist. Then there are those who help with marketing and sales. At least today you can choose how you want to do things. It didn't use to be like that. Grass roots today is wide open where before the internet your ability to reach more people was limited. The real problem is the audience that for some reason believes that artists should give their music away. People still don't believe that we work for a living in the music business.
99.999999999999999999% of all musicians can't afford to waste 4000 dollars on one song, no matter how special the occasion is. If Mary Spender can afford to spend such a large sum on ONE SONG, I honestly don't see what she is whining about. A normal metal band would spend that much (or less) on recording, mixing and mastering an entire album. She is clearly not a struggling artist. She boasts a massive collection of guitars, brags about spending ridiculous amounts of money on recording and, all in all, acts like a music-themed influencer. Then she whines about not getting enough money. I mean... I'm sorry, but... No. She should pick a lane. And she should know that for most musicians, even if they are well known, the album is not supposed to be a source of income. It's just a promotional tool for their next tour. And, like it or not, if your album is not on Spotify, people will either not listen to it, or get it from the Pirate Bay. I don't want an argument about piracy, but, good or bad, it exists - which is one of the biggest reasons all artists who try to fight against streaming services eventually end up putting their music on them.
@@KernSound well you’re preaching to the choir because my father was a session musician in the 60s and 70s and sure he made good money at the time (luckily), but at the same time he lost a lot of money that was put into the hands of others who took either credit for his work, or just blatantly ignored his contributions. When I was kid, I remember years of my Dad woodshedding by day, and working by night. I didn’t want it badly enough, as my Dad used to put it, so I took a “normal” job, and music has always been a hobby for me, aside from a few periods of low paid “side hustle” or even pro bono gigs, just for the love of playing music. Sometimes I regret not telling people to stick it when they wanted free musicians. Sad to say, but I had to do for a living what I didn’t care about, so that I could negotiate the maximum compensation for it..
What a great video explaining how streaming actually works 😊 you've also inspired me to order a copy of the cd as I do like to support independent artists. Go Mary 😊 x
You are quite an inspiration Mary! Thank you for this very informative videos!
Hi Mary, I had a dabble at releasing my own solo music around 15 years ago. I did two albums, one in 2009 and one in 2012, and managed to gather pre-orders of album 2 via Facebook and even Myspace way back when. This allowed me to self produce, record, make and distribute my own CD. I remember signing the CDs at the table. A couple of small deals raised their head, but I'm a bit of an introvert and I had a young family at the time so that wasn't happening. I also had a non music career that paid the bills and supported my family. After the last album in 2012 I decided to stop releasing albums. It took so much time to write, record, mix, master, manufacture and distribute and I had to do that in parallel with my life as a Dad, a husband and a consultant engineer. My then situation meant I had priorities and releasing music was not at the top of that list. Your video struck a chord, so I thought I add my thoughts: It is a fact that streaming does not put food on the table for the vast majority of independent artists and over time it has reduced the value of music. The share of streams model that you reference has an additional fundamental flaw. Anyone can upload their songs - or indeed silence - and the result is everyone does, so the slice of the pie that each indie artist receives is always going to decrease. Additionally the examples you show of what others are doing to try and take back power from streaming services give hope. Over the last 10 years I have not stopped writing songs, but I just wasn't motivated to loose money releasing them online. As I'm sure all independent artists understand the intial writing of a song idea is relatively cheap. The costs rise when you take a song idea and develop it to a standard ready for commercial release. So I have to agree with your methodology for releasing your album, and I would advise any smaller independent artists to limit their releases intitially to physical, personalised products such as CD's tape and Vinyls. Let the streaming services provide the 24/7 archive in due course. I think that's what I'll be doing next. It would be really interesting to see what would happen in the music world if all artists did that? They won't, but it would be an interesting experiment..... Keep up the good work....
Streaming, while not very well paid, is at least a way to reach out to an audience without being picked up and signed by a record label. Back in the day, Mary, me and most independent musicians wouldn't have had a chance to be found if not signed.
Just preordered your album. Hope it helps and more people will do the same for great artists like you. Thanks for all you do.
Looking forward to hearing the Album. Might sound old fashioned but having a signed CD will be great, especially when you make it big, will be worth a fortune 🙂
Thanks for this brilliant summary of some crucial issues facing musicians. I would love a vinyl copy of your album but understand the near prohibitive costs associated with that.
Thanks for this very enlightening explanation of what we’ve always suspected. The chain of middlemen always make more than the artist and they do it without shame.
As a budding independent artist, I really appreciate videos like this.
I have learned so much from your posts. You are the consummate professional! Nice music too! Thank you.
Good luck with your debut album!
Will be bought next month, thank you for explaining and thank you for signing all those CD's! Please don't get a tennis elbow from it!
Mary, thanks for the video. On 4/21/23 I released my 13th album. We decided to play by the rules and release singles to streaming every 4-6 weeks and not put the entire album on the sites for a while. Meanwhile for our live performances I wrote a 117-page full color glossy book (call it extended liner notes) to add value to the music. It is a beautiful piece of art. In the back of the book is this round thing called a CD and a link to a private streaming playlist on SoundCloud giving the buyer instant streaming access. In the few months that the album has been out we’ve made enough in sales to cover I would guess many years of streaming income. Keep up the good work. Jimmie
Exciting that you're nearly at the finish line for your first album! I am more than happy to do my small part as a fan of your videos over the years; pre-ordered it and I'm looking forward to having it in my paws.
Just preordered. Keep up the great work.
Smart how you broke this down for us to understand. Spotify is a joke for artists, yet they make you feel like you need them to survive! I do music in my spare time and upload to streaming services, but it’s not my main income. However, I see how difficult it is for musicians trying to make a career out of it. Appreciate your hard work Mary 👌 Do you think it’s better now to rely on physical sales of CDs/vinyl?
Streaming services are good for discovering new music. They are not, have never been and has never intended to replace sales of actual singles and albums. To support an artist, simply listening to their music on a streaming platform isn't enough. Those services are also far from expensive enough to provide sustainable income to artists, but if they were expensive enough, people wouldn't use them.
No it’s not good to rely on physical sales at all and that’s been the case for around 20 years, especially as an independent artist. What is often forgotten is producing physical copies requires an investment in the first place that is significantly higher than the cost of releasing on streaming services, which is £50 for an album or what a subscription costs (I dislike these as they cost more in the long term). Any CD/vinyl/cassette duplication service isn’t going to entertain an order for £50. A small number of units, say 100 at a time isn’t cost effective and you need to sell a lot than if you’d committed to say a 1000, but the outlay for that is higher and you are then committed to selling all that. So to produce a physical copy can easily require committing at least 20x what digital distribution costs if you intent to make money/a living from it and if it doesn’t sell, you’ve lost money and suddenly streaming doesn’t seem quite so bad. Personally I’ve found Merch sells better and can get away with a higher markup and see physical copies as more vanity because it’s awesome to get a vinyl copy of your music and be less concerned about unit cost and markup.
@@3rdStoreyChemist Digital sales, merch and concerts are the best ways for artists to make money.
3:44 Is that 0.003 cents or 0.003 Dollars, so 0.3 cents? The words and the figures on-screen seem to differ, unless I've misunderstood something.
Good luck with the project Mary!
Great video! I didn’t know how the streaming/music industry worked. Will definitely order your upcoming album!
Buying an album is an investment, for which you are rewarded upon multiple plays, unlocking new secrets with each listen, allowing songs to grow on you that you maybe didn't care for on first listen. With streaming less instantly accessible music isn't given as much of a chance as no investment has been made and there is always something else more instantly listener friendly vying for your attention. Who knows how many great albums have fallen by the wayside in recent years because they weren't afforded the chance.
Recorded music are really no different than any other product. You first design and manufacture it, then you have to make it widely known it's available. Without the "advertising" part there won't be many buyers, because it's then just a single drop in a flood of music. The big difference since the good old days is that there are even more music available now and with minimal effort needed from the listners. But there are also way more ways to "advertise" now and artists can on their own reach music fans all over the world, without needing to sign with the industry. Musicians have in more that 100 years complained about the distribution of recorded music. The famous composer Sousa saw Edisons invention of wax cylinders as something that would make it impossible for musicians to make an living by playing music.....
@@westmus Here in Canada there is a musician named Jane Siberry who had maybe one hit, back when CD's and pirating were getting going, the government was going to put a tax on blank CD's. Most of the money never went to the artists, and I remember Jane saying that its likely 'professional musician' simply is not something that will exist in the future. I listened to Clara Stegals latest song, every bit as good as anything I listened to back in the day. People forget how much touring artists had to do in order to get sales. In america they said there were hundreds of 'markets' and you had to keep pounding pavement. We were told that each week 'forty' songs were 'good' and the rest not worth listening to. Maybe making music for a living is just something that won't be a thing. But good luck to anybody trying.
buying an album is anticuated and unpractical. the discussion is not abiut the format it's about money and who's getting it
@@mikearchibald744 , it's always hard work to make a living on selling a product that there are no lack on. Musicians are competing to get a share of a flooded market and they are selling entertainment, not stuff people need to survive.
Streaming does the exact same thing. See the issue is that 99% of people WONT buy a cd. Hell 99.9% of people don’t even have a CD player anymore.
Went to buy the signed copy and got all the way through just to realize shipping is $17 and total is $50. I’ll just have to stick with streaming as support, but loved this video! Wish I could do more.
Watching this video pays her more, so that
Fascinating stuff. Best of luck with the album. The only way I'm able to make a steady income on Spotify is with a relentless stream of releases. Every two days I'm publishing a new song, which is a shame because it would be great to have the time to fully craft an album, but the streaming algorithms are just huge beasts that crave content continually.
Very interesting video, thank you!. A comment regarding what you said about distribution costs and "just uploading files. As a software developer, I know that keep running Spotify's platform is a massive challenge. There are thousands of engineers that have to fight daily to keep the lights on. It's not only uploading the file, but making sure that is readily available on all platforms, with high bandwitdh on any part of the world. I think here the individual distribution costs surely benefit from using a shared platform, but the platform itself costs millions every month to run, not only in infrastructure but also in the thousands of engineers involved.
Can I "like" this video a million times? No? Then maybe I will buy the album. Thanks for being you, Mary.
Some of my friends pay their rent with one song on Spotify and nearly no social media following by targeting well produced songs to good playlists, there are ways to do it, and we have to remember during the cd era many artists weren’t earning hardly anything from their labels even for 1 million album sales. I personally do both, and my overall income has increased through streaming because I print less cds, swings and roundabouts
You have some good points...but the overall problem still exists, which you yourself highlight about the "cd era", which is that corporate capture of the musician-to-artist path is STILL a thing, and they are happy to make the bulk of the income instead of the artist, simply by standing in the path. As Mary pointed out, there have always been artists getting bad deals, yet there used to be a decent(ish) rationale for a record company taking a healthy cut: they handled recording, manufacturing, distribution, advertisting/marketing, etc. etc....and all of these things are now more efficiently handled (in _every_ industry, not just music) but back in the day, the artist had no other choice but to engage this big physical machine controlled by the industry corps. So now despite artists having direct access to tools for accomplishing all these things, we still have corporations BIGGER than the old ones still standing in the path to profitability for artists, like trolls demanding payment for crossing a bridge. Your friends are certainly savvy and blessed for paying their rent with a song on Spotify...but to me, that's not an argument for streaming, because Spotify is making much MORE than that for simply being a troll on a bridge. Just my $0.25 (and btw, what are "swings and roundabouts)
How do you get songs to playlists? Would be nice to earn some money off music. Ive spent thousands and hardly made anything back.
Been thinking about that for the last 2 years, I started releasing my music back in the MySpace days, later on KZhead and Soundcloud, now, I'm releasing my music on Spotify and the other major streaming services, I started by an EP to establish a fan base and my genre, after that I released 2 singles, 1 every 2 months, the streams are scarce... NOW, I'm starting to think about another way that can help me reach more people and financially too, so physical media and pre-orders is not a bad option, I just have to spend more, bu I thin it will be an investment in the long term. Thanks for the video and good luck in your musical journey :)
Nicely put and said Mary. Much success with everything - David Bendayan
depends on your intentions for creating music. do you make music to express your art with others or are you doing it for a monetary gain (to which there is nothing wrong with that). ultimately, i feel that spotify gives you a larger platform to where you can share your art with as many people as possible. i cant tell you how many new artists i fell in love with after discovering them on spotify.
Well you can't play if you have nothing to eat ... :)) Nothing is for free in this world, why should musicians work for free and other 99% not?
Do you know how much art isn't created because people have to have day jobs to be able to eat? The arts touch every aspect of our lives and artists deserve to to paid a living wage.
@@b.hornetiii.6771he didnt say that.
@@janedoe678 Well said!
One of the reasons I moved to Tidal was the apparent better payout to artists. Great that you were able to confirm that (with or without more .000 😁). Also ordered your CD! As an additional remark: I highly enjoy and appreciate your videos, here and on Nebula 🤘
Thank you - forgive my maths mistake!
Big fan, and longtime user of, Tidal & Qobuz. Both for their better pay for artists and for their hugely better sound quality. Keep it up, Mary!!! :D
Thanks Mary! That was really informative.
From the perspective of a fellow singer/songwriter, this may be the most important video you have ever shared on KZhead. Thanks!
Well done Mary. The more musicians take a stand the better.
Your album cover looks stunning!
Just preordered the CD! Looking forward to hear it!🤩
Thanks! More Power to Musicians. They ought to be the ones who decide the value of their songs. Art isn't f***ing eggs. Art is beyond grocery items by a light year. I have always dreamed of a month wide global protest for music or even 3 months where artists take down their discographies from these streaming services. Hopefully, one day, me or someone else with the right power or influence could mess up these steaming services. Realistically speaking, we would have to shut it for longer such that companies like spotify are obliged to shut down, not just go in loss. More power to you, Mary. Musicians and music matter. We chose art to escape the chaos of life nor to be enslaved financially to a streaming service. I hope Someday this worldwide protest for music would come to be and show that we are united in our goal for creating better art that's given the love it deserves. Peace.
If you think art is more important than food (which in truth you don't) you live in a bubble of ignorance and lack the perspective necessary to create illuminating art in the first place.
To be honest supply and demand also applies to music. Since there is so much out there all the time the worth of music just goes down. I myself put about 14 hours of music on spotify cause it's my hobby. Streaming and stuff has only made me about 100 euro's over the years. Don't quit your job unless you make it big.
@Kryn_Durr spotify wasn't a thing before illegally downloading music became popular and Pirate bay and other companies came by. Otherwise yes ofc supply and demand does apply to music and any other field. Art can be financially depleting until you 'make it' and yes it's true you ought to have something on the side so yeah
@jessicaknopp5495 break an egg no one cares. Ruin an art piece in a museum, you get arrested. That's what I meant. I don't make the rules Jessica, you don't have to worry about me
You just popped up on my top 10 recommendation videos. Not sure why but I'll give you a listen on spotify!
A great detailed video. Its definitely a good idea to sell CDs or somehow early-access versions first, to get value from bigger fans. Research has suggested that a few % of listeners are super fans to certain artists and would be willing/are willing through merch/vinyl to pay more. Whilst Tidal seems to pay more per stream, this isnt really the case. Its economics are very similar if a subscriber paid the same say $10 a month, they have same the agreements with labels than Spotify. They just much lower engagement per user, so each stream pays out a higher amount (same total $10 / less streams = higher amount)
I think that it's unfortunate that artists don't get paid "fair" from Spotify. However, if you released it there, there's a 100% chance that I would listen to it at least once. There's a 0% chance that I would purchase an album as a digital download since I don't get any of my other music that way. I don't own a CD player, and my laptop doesn't even have a disc drive. Am I missing out as a consumer? Possibly, but there's honestly so much other content out there that I'll be fine. I will continue to watch your KZhead though, so I hope that you make enough from that and I hope that you release some of your new songs there.
Two other things you should consider are sound quality and availability. Streaming is usually compressed at 128 (although you can pay extra for lossless streaming), so depending on your equipment sound quality may suffer. If you mainly listen through earbuds from your phone then 128 will probably suffice, but if you have a decent quality home sound system then you will appreciate the higher quality of lossless audio. Availability is also an issue - if you have a CD or a downloaded file, then you have that music forever. If you rely on streaming then your favourite songs could disappear at any time, either by the artist or label pulling them from the service, or the service itself discontinuing (or even problems with your internet connection).
And here I am, hoping she will do a vinyl release lol
Wishing you all the success in the world, it sounds like a crazy time to be a new artist!
Hello Mary, Thank you for the streaming details. I already booked the physical record about 2 weeks ago, so excited to hear it soon ! Would you consider releasing on Deezer, please ? Lots of kisses, Fabien
Before even clicking on the video, I could have told ya... "physical copies... hands down". And not just because of what the purchase equals in terms of streams, but because the people who buy the physical copies equates to people who are willing to pay to go to a show and buy other merch. Keep up the good work!
Exactly. I think we are walking straight into that age of quality connections rather than a lot of connections. Or at least there will be both in the near future. There are so many people with a proper interest in music, and they will buy a CD, go to a show and buy your T-shirt if they like it. Instead of getting on a playlist with 1000 other bands and someone occasionally stumbles across your song once every year. Competing for that latter audience is just not worth it, it's made up by Spotify to further their product.
So yes, it’s annoying when an artist I like isn’t available on streaming services, but given how the revenue split is *SO* utterly out of whack, I can hardly blame them. One of my absolute favourite artists, Joanna Newsom took the same stand, and while I hate that her music takes more effort to be able to listen to, I have to respect her for sticking up the middle finger to a bunch of greedy suits. I hope your decision pays off for you! 👍🏻
Great information, Mary. I wish you success. Big Love.
I NEVER use streaming as I buy music on cd or digital download. Incredible good reason to continue doing so. I'd wish more musicians were like you. Best wishes.