Howdy! Today I want to talk about something frustrating I've been noticing in the last few years and explore what it is, what it means, and what musicians can do about it.
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Ive just come back to. Welcome back mate.
29 ? You've barely started life. What a strange process of thought.
I know all this what's mentioned in the video and that is why I haven't bothered releasing most of My music because there is no point, nobody is looking for what I make.
@@HOLLASOUNDS i will listen. but you need to find the meaning behind why you do this. find people that encourage you, inspire you and drive your motivation. reach out. ❤
I didn't know that You were not feeling good, but I'm happy to read You're feeling better now. 🙂
Remember: you do NOT have to conform to playlist culture. Make music that you love to make. With sounds, structure, and vibe that moves you to make more. Tell the story any way you want. If it gave you goosebumps, it’ll give someone else goosebumps. Do what you do. Do it exceptionally. Try to make it as visual as possible to adhere to our screen dominated culture. Become singular, not for singular’s sake - but because it’s you.
How do you promote this music then to a group larger than your friends? Labels want music that is easy to promote and will perform well on Spotify. Playlists wants confidence and don’t want any experimentations cause they want their playlist to be easy promotable. No one would want to take a risk.
Nailed it.
@@sp_welvetyou’re still thinking music as a business model. Some of us simply don’t care. That’s what makes it art.
@@sp_welvetthen don’t? I certainly don’t, as I doubt my Berlin School waffling is very saleable. I just make it because it makes me and a few other people feel good.
I think there is a difference between making money from music and simply making you music heard. I believe that the art is a form of communication, and it should be shared, otherwise there is no point of making it. (I understand that there are different points of view)
I think popular music is suffering, while more underground (or even just music that’s not made to be popular) is better than ever. the innovation is crazy too see
THIS. And tbh it's all thanks to social media that this shift is happening.
Same. People complain that there’s “no good music anymore,” but that’s just the popular stuff you hear on the radio or streaming services. I recently discovered King Gizzard And The Lizard Wizard and they’re my new favorite band, they make music in whatever genre they feel like at the time and it’s always super creative and interesting. There’s lots of bands like that out there, I just have to wonder how long it will be until mainstream audiences are bored enough with samey stuff that these more independent artists take off in popularity.
@@Thinginator I LOVE king gizzard. They’re creative and experimental but they also make great music and release multiple albums a year
@@stegosaurus0611 I also love that because they dabble in multiple genres, any playlist with King Giz in it is automatically diverse and interesting. They can go from thrash metal to psychedelic indie pop to blues rock seamlessly, so the playlist ends up with other songs from different artists and genres as a result.
I’ve always been into video game music thanks to geometry dash and have discovered so many amazing composers through it like camellia, waterflame, f-777 just to name a few, hell, possibly one of the best soundtracks i’ve ever listened to is DM Dokuro’s Calamity mod soundtrack for Terraria.
Music isn't getting boring, not any more than it's ever been. Popular/mainstream music has always been generic-"be as simple as possible to attract as many people as possible" There is great music out there, it is simply buried by what sells, and unfortunately generic sells. It's a simple fact that has always been since the mass production of music.
I agree. I would argue that todays music is better than it ever was. Small musicians don't rely on labels anymore and have complete artistic freedom. Even when just listening to Lofi Hiphop I find extremely well made compositions that I only see once in a blue moon in popular music. As you said, it is nothing new, if you want to find unique tracks, just look outside the radio and you will find them.
The red army choir is objectively better than the consumerist music of tiktok, they are not trying to be a tiktok trend and the songs have real meaning
@@StaciApple Why are you picking a single instance of good music and compare it to a whole industry? That doesn't make any sense.
@@sound_soup I am sorry for my fallacy. I was talking about Socialist music in general
@@StaciApple alright I think this goes beyond music theory ;)
I think something I find interesting about the Spotify algorithm is that while it doesn't like to serve you new styles of music, it DOES happily serve you incredibly obscure music if that's what you usually listen to. I listen to a lot of stuff nobody's heard of, and my Discover Weekly sometimes has songs on it that don't even have their lyrics transcribed anywhere online. Lesser-known artists WILL get recommended to you if you listen to lesser-known artists. Most people just don't bother listening to obscure indie stuff, I guess.
yess I've noticed this! my Spotify offers me lots of under 10k artists because it's what I seek out, where as my friends spotify only recommends big indie pop artists
I think this also works really well if you treat Spotify as a way to discover artists, not just songs. If it recommends me a song and I really like it, I'll give the whole album a listen, and 90% of the time there'll be other stuff I love there too.
@@ph5.484 yeah that's a great point!
@@stormclouds7073 yeah exactly, Spotify will give you whatever it thinks fits you best, just not variety lol
found the hipster
New strategy: get hired by an indie game to compose their OST, also release the OST on streaming services. That's a good way to get fans if they like the game and the music
I've discovered some wonderful music through video game soundtracks 🥰👌
Close
Can confirm. I bet a decent chunk of us all got that from Halo
Still genre limiting a lot of the time. Have you find a game that will work for your music. Can't have Taylor swift songs in skyrim
I know one where a guy created a game series to put his music on and the fans created fanworks out of them.
This remember me how my peers always say that "todays music is shit", and I always respond saying that mainstream music is kinda in a bad place, but also we are in the best possible age to find amazing songs and we need to have a conscious effort to find them. The algorithm has shifted to make you spendtime in the platform, not to give you what you like/asked for. My fear is that many people (specialy young ones) may never build their musical taste because they assume what's given is good and there's nothing more to explore
Idk I’m 16 and me and all my friends explore music and have developed tastes. I think there will always be people who love music as an art and willing to explore and find what they like I just think that number is shrinking as many don’t know how good music can get
Ironic. I saw redditors say Spotify is better than SoundCloud because it has "quality control" but every actual artist who makes music says SoundCloud is the best website to find new music, because there's no barrier to entry. I use KZhead and just search for music with the filter set to the last hour or last 24 hours and find some of the absolute pinnacle of heavy synth music is in videos with 0 or 10 views, better than classics with millions
@@c0ggg with how accessible DAWs are now, the people who want to do that are making it more and more. The situation with minatory and deathstep is that a comical preparation of the people who listen to it also make it.
Yep, it's pretty normal for the most popular music to be simple and catchy, a lot of people will enjoy it pretty easily. You can't get everyone to listen to norwegian black metal or something
@@ashtar3876 spot-on
I wrote a symphony, paid 3000 € to let it be recorded in Belarus back in 2010, it probably generated revenue through streaming about 5-10 € atmost since then. Cruel reality 😂 But I wrote it not to earn money. I am very happy that it was played by a real Orchestra.
Ohhhh is it in streaming still? If so whats the name?
what’s the name of the piece?
@@YY_516 Stefan Bötel Symphony Nr.1. There is a video with the score and the video with the orchestra.
Well, if you approach it as a hobby and not a job that needs to generate an income, then paying €3k for a decent recording isn't all that bad. There are certainly more expensive hobbies. Just ask any amateur astronomer, or anyone who enjoys restoring oldtimers. Then again, if you wrote your own symphony and went as far as to have it professionally performed and recorded, odds are you're also a bit of an audiophile. If so, I don't have to tell you how expensive that stuff can get. 😂
Get a better album cover! Very good. Engaging and full of life! I like it. If you have the master and are not legally beholden to anyone for it maybe separate it into movements. As the guy in the video said, it'd net you a multiplier of listens and would be easier to digest in playlist form.
This is why ive found myself enjoying smaller artists the majority of the time. They arent making music for everyone, they’re making music for themselves and audiences like them. Its much easier to enjoy then the weekly pop hit.
Have you tried listening to BTS real music before?
@@rafaelsmith5737bts music isn't very different from western music i'd say
@@sv_cheats1 ah yes, cause OBVIOUSLY you've only heard their popular songs that has trash lyrics cause it's written and produced by Americans, it would be weird if it didn't sound American. Anyways, I think you misunderstood BTS music is different from their commercialized "popular" music. BTS music is not mainstream and is not for sale nor it is for streams and charts, so obviously it's not popular. BTS music is free so it won't appear on Spotify and other streaming platforms we're an artist can gain profit. BTS music are written and composed by the members themselves and sometime it's also produced by them. The albums doesn't have any physical copy cause like I said, it's not for sale, so basically they don't gain anything from it. Even if there's an album or a song that gets crazy popular in free music platforms, the streams won't be counted for the charts. So even if you search in Google all BTS songs, it still won't appear cause BTS music aren't even under 'BTS' name. So I ask again have you actually heard BTS music before? Or did you just assume you've heard of their 'music' base from the 2 or 3 songs you've heard from them? Can you even name 10 songs from BTS? Or at least name half (250) of BTS songs? If not, who are you to think you've heard of their music before? Not alone say their songs sounds western?
@@rafaelsmith5737 im not saying bts sounds western at all, im just saying that while bts is obviously on it's own different type of music, you could say the songs are produced to serve the same purpose as a "playlist" song, just for an audience (country) that doesn't have the attention span of a fly also yes,i have listened to bts non-stop for about 3 months straight because of my sister
@@rafaelsmith5737we are talking about the group… right?
That‘s an awfully long way of saying “I don‘t like my wife‘s taste in music” 😂❤ Love your videos, Cameron.
Lolll hahahahahaha
Next time, she drives and you do the playlist.
this is pretty much it lmao
😂😂
🤣
I'm am not, and have never been a professional musician, but I was in the music scene in the 90s and was in a few bands, so I spent a lot of time with people who were trying to "make it". In those pre-internet days, the only way you were going to get anywhere as a musician was by getting signed to a label. Obviously everyone wanted the big labels that would have the most marking dollars, but there were smaller "indie" labels, too. It was very time consuming and expensive to record a demo tape, and the quality was pretty bad. A lot of your promotional work was about playing live shows. Then try to sell a handful of tapes while you were there to cover your costs. Independently creating music was basically impossible. We booked studio time in the middle of the night with a college student who was studying audio engineering to record our demo. Our guitarist's dad funded it, but most people didn't have that luxury. Ultimately though, the end product (CD) sounded pretty bad. Ultimately, everybody was trying to write a "radio-friendly" song that would get picked up by a label. But even if you did get signed, the deal you got was terrible. You weren't making any money until your 3rd album, and I knew people who had signed with a label, but still made almost all of their money by selling T-shirts at live shows. Ultimately, getting noticed as a musician has always been difficult. Before, the gatekeepers were the record labels and radio stations. Now it's the record labels and streaming services. I would argue though that the situation is way better today than it ever has been. You can record an effectively perfect-quality album on your home computer at relatively low cost. There are way more marketing opportunities with the Internet, like forums, KZhead, and Bandcamp. That does mean that a lot of people are competing with you, but at least you could conceivably have a music career now without ever signing a garbage deal with a record label, so I consider that a win.
We've lost a couple things, though, that I think went way undervalued in the past... and are, frankly, a double-edged sword: 1) Producers. When you make a "perfect quality album on your home computer," there's nobody telling you that you really should try to make the second verse more interesting, or perhaps two and a half minutes of jamming out on your drum sampler is a bit excessive for a bridge in a 4-minute song. 2) Curation. Since anyone can get on streaming platforms, anybody does. It takes an army to go through all that rubbish to find the diamond in the rough. Not that the radio days were free of cruft, but at least someone was out there looking for something interesting, and throwing away the demo tapes of people who sure thought they could write a song, and sure couldn't. There's also a bit of a samey-ness in that the path of least resistance is a copy of FL Studio or Logic or Ableton, and so much of what comes out of that factory of mediocrity is just a pile of VSTi's being used in kind of the same ways, with no cross-pollination with session artists from other genres that use other tools. I know that, for a while, every song on the radio had an M1 Piano in it, but at least they were in a legit studio, with big money behind them, and some people who were there to sprinkle a little fairy dust over it. Stuff just sounded different then. It sounded better, because there were industry titans helping to write it, arrange it, edit it, engineer it, mix it, master it, and market it. And they did NOT want to fail. Now everything on the ambient station is a dry trip-hop sample pack and a Rhodes piano with 24dB of ducking every time the kick drum sample hits, because one guy can do it with a MacBook and a weekend alone.
Actually, all it takes is for someone to start a KZhead Channel to showcase the most interesting/ exciting music he finds out there. If he's got good ears there is no reason why his channel shouldn't become essential listening for millions of new music fans. His main investment is time and promoting his work as a must listen channel. This is why the free market is so successful. If there's a problem, someone can monetise a solution. The US has always has a huge amount of professional recording facilities, constantly churning out rock, country and pop music. Often produced by semi-pro or pro producers, but that alone never guaranteed success. There are gatekeepers, for sure, but standout talents usually make it one way or another.
i was just watching you thats crazy i had no idea you played guitar; cheers from Dixie! Wish we had better cities, our walkable cities are still slaves to highways
It's kinda still the same though. Labels have money for studios and marketing and getting you connected in the mainstream
I totally read this in your voice. I'm a musician also, and I can agree - at the same time, it's both harder than ever and easier than ever to get into the "music industry", because Bandcamp is awesome, but if you ever wanna be noticed past niche Bandcamp "fame", you have to sign to a label and it seems like there's more competition than ever cause it's so accessible to just get started. Honestly though, I've always said that as long as I'm making enough money to pay for rent, food, bills, savings and have some left over for fun I'm happy.
We need another boom of concept albums, a whole bunch of them to be released in a period of 5 years. This will make people hear the entire album again
I wanna write emo concept albums similar to mcr
@@eko9554 Damn, me too, I have a killer idea inspired in The black parade. The black parade is literally the best album ever, close second is Danger Days
@@serpizzaasr6573 my idea is about a fictional eboy rock band living during quarantine and they get inspired by classic 2000s pop punk bands. I got this idea because of pop punk revival. The characters will change their type of outfits since 2019 and 2021 ekid fashion changed. And they are kinda of a pastiche/parody of famous ekids during that time. The side 1 will be alt/indie rock and pop and side 2 will be pop punk, punk, and emo.
@@eko9554your comment has inspired me to continue working on my album. thanks man
Something I've really noticed lately is just how good listening to a full album all the way through is. I've been enjoying music more taking control over things instead of letting Spotify do all the work. A lot of times when Spotify does start shuffling music at the end of an album, if I find a song that piques my interest, I'll go to the artist page and check out their works and see if I can find more music with interesting vibes, if there's an album tied to it, I check out the entire album. It's great
I'm a compulsive music listener. I used to be proud of how many new artists I discovered per year. And I agree with you on that discoverability point. I feel like it's getting harder to discover new music and artists even when you want to. I few years ago it happened almost by accident. Nowadays I need to dig so hard. And I'm not talking about finding stuff that I like, but actually truly new stuff, even if it's not my cup of tea.
Stream yameii
Try me Gabriel 😉
a good method to finding new music is figuring out what your current favorite artists are listening to. artists are usually the ones who dig the deepest and its fun to hear the influences of an artist you like and how that carried over into their own music.
I would also suggest video game OSTs The variety there can get insane, and it is often intentionally experimental or purpose-driven beyond just what is good on a stream. It'll still take some digging but it's where a lot of the worlds best actual composers are getting their work in this era.
listen to churchmode
I personally love the Vocaloid scene for its ease of exploration - any indie artist in any genre can upload and get views because the only criteria to be a part of the scene is that your music uses synthesized vocals, and there's a pretty sizeable audience for it, at least on the Japan side.
You goofy on god
You goofy on god
You goofy on god (I love Deco*27)
Yeah man. Doujin scene is an absolute banger. I didn't know why people making a fucking long ass essay about why music industry is collapsing and why music nowadays is trash. They can just search and doing a little bit 5 minutes dive in the internet and they can find something that they like. Instead doing pointless ranting about why things in the past is GOOD. Or do the easiest shit like Resort to the Japanese doujin scene for the very specific genre that they are like. Like electronic music, vocaloid (like you), mainstream easy listening music, or crazy nonsense peak lobotomy but sweet and happy denpa genre.
@@abdulmulkiaulde3014 You okay, bro?
Thats why a lot of my favorite music comes from video games. I feel like because of the medium it is presented on, it never had this "downfall" mainstream music is suffering from
Amen to that! There's such great music from games. It's all there, it just needs to be put together in a format that works.
Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 2010 is my favorite game soundtrack
ur weird lol. just listen to underground music. start with some griselda artists
@@poopypoop1477you cannot be calling anyone weird when your username is poopypoop 💀
I feel like video game music is more interesting because it forces composers to think outside the box, like writing a song about a heartbreak vs writing a song for an Italian plumber saving a princess from a fire breathing turtle
It's not like anyone knocked on The Beatles' door, or on Queen's door, or on Nirvana's door and said "hey, could you guys make some music with deep lyrics and complex melodies, please?". It always started with musicians having something to say, or having a sound they wanted to explore, and turning that into songs they then played at whatever gigs they got. Your insight into the incentives contemporary singers have to produce what they produce is really illuminating, though. It makes a lot of sense
I never hear 5-8 minute songs anymore. I feel like this is a great length because you can't fully grasp the song after only one listen. It takes multiple listens to unpack it and this makes repeat listens a whole lot more fun. You also had time to fit in a nice instrument solo in there and also even a slow 1 minute buildup intro that gets you hyped before the singing even starts.
The recent trend toward 2-3 minute songs is intentional. it leaves you craving just a bit more, so you play the track twice, boosting the stream/play count. It also is more likely to be used in a viral video than a longer track, since shorter videos are more likely to go viral
Kara kara kara no kara by Kikuo is a good 8 minutes song!
I think you will like Mitsuki Nakae's _Lost Nostalgia_ and Nanosizemir's _Hajimari wo Tsugeru Shoujo_ based on your comment above. Please give them a try.
@@melda5278 Hah - last Dir En Grey album opens with *_10_*_ minutes long track_ - I was like _"hm, this intro is sure long"_
I generally tend to disagree on this point. Granted, there are longer songs I enjoy listening to, such as American Pie, but I generally find the idea of such a long song grueling. Part of this reason is the long instrumental sessions that you mentioned, which I find unnecessary. I definitely respect where you come from, but music does evolve, and new listeners just may not like long songs.
I think there's a big difference in making your own playlists and listening to spotify-generated ones. personally, I love going through discographies and exploring record stores and finding new music through there. for me playlists are about archiving those finds I enjoyed and putting in context with the music i already listen to. if i make a playlist based on a certain feeling (eg. sad music) or for a specific purpose (eg. working out) i can put those new songs i enjoy and put them in the context where i think I'll enjoy them the most
but this raises the question of "what if there's a song you really enjoy but it doesn't fit in the boxes you made?". when I was first getting into music this was something that really bothered me at first and then later on i realised that sometimes you just can't isolate a song! and that's okay!
@@cowgirltheworldyou make more niche boxes, more often than not you will find something that has the same energy. I've had that same problem with a bunch of experimental and proggresive tracks, they are together in a playlist I enjoy for its uniqueness
I have one master playlist of every song I have ever remembered enjoying in my life and one more playlist for every song I currently want downloaded. So I get a little bit of pretty much every genre in no order whatsoever and thats the way I like it.
Yeah, I almost never listen to spotifies generated albums. I like to order my music by mood so it feels like coherent experience, it can feel jarring to go from something soft and somber to something loud and energetic lol
@@Sandfire564 You said it best! I feel the same way. Exactly the reason I want to make my own playlists.
music isn’t really boring you just gotta find the right songs for you
something clicked for me when i found Westside Gunn
I say find something that fits the mood your in helps too
ive been in the “Jack Stauber, Lemon Demon, Tally Hall” loop 🥳 favorite songs: two time, hip hop cherry pop, ruler of everything:)
@@twotruckslyricsCheck out Will Wood
@@poopypoop1477 when i found MF DOOM thats what really made me enjoy music more
I think a lot of people don't really know what they like. They want to hear music, but they either don't care enough to seek things out on their own or they just want to hear something. You can see it with people who end up paying hundreds, if not thousands for a ticket to see whatever generic artist is popular at the time, where they could have easily spent the same amount to see 10 other acts who are as good if not better, just they aren't the ones you hear turning on the radio or just letting Spotify dictate what you're listening to today. You see it with so many things. The people that tune into the football week in, week out, but clearly just aren't really that interested. The people that play the same 2 or 3 video games for months or years on end, ignoring the hundreds of exceptional ones out there. The people that watch endless reruns of Friends or The Big Bang Theory. Mediocrity is comfortable.
I'm 62 years old, been a music fan from about 4 years old, been making it for about 40 years. My music fandom started with The Beatles and has made it through multiple "death of music" and subsequent rebirth cycles. What always precedes big shifts in creativity and connection in music is a music industry with too much control trying to force feed music consumers music that doesn't speak to them. Preceding rock 'n' roll's first big boom in the late 50's and early 60's, radio pop was often insipid and usually aimed at older listeners. Then a few artists came along and started shaking things up, making music that connected (Elvis, Beatles, et al) after which countless people formed garage bands and took pop music down to a grass roots level. within 10 years, the music industry had figured out how to rein all that in and by the early 70's, there were pretty much no places for anyone but a bar covers band to play. This was even true in once vibrant centers of creativity like Los Angeles, where not too many years earlier there was an incredibly vibrant club scene on Sunset Blvd. So the music became softer, started to appeal to an older crowd again, became more highly produced, requiring greater dependence on record company budgets, record companies got control of the music press by leveraging their ad budgets. Until what was pushed as the next big thing for kids all across America was disco. Yes, a lot of good dance music came out of the phenomenon, but the genre was aimed at affluent 30-somethings who could afford flashy clothes and cars and cocaine. Other than this it was West Coast soft ("yacht") rockers. That didn't exactly speak to middle American youth either. People in their 30's had more money to spend, so music was marketed at them. Kids were left behind. Fast forward a few years and we start to see the breakout of DIY culture, punk, metal and hip hop. A return to playing originals in smaller clubs, promoting their own shows. Street level stuff. All night drug-fueled dance parties (later called raves) It took a while, and the music industry tried to co-opt it into New Wave, Hair Metal and pop rap, but by the early 90's, harder edged and/or quirkier music that actually spoke to the kids (and others who wanted to listen and dance) had taken over again. But as will eventually happen, the music industry found a way to start spoon-feeding over-manufactured pabulum, and this is where we are today, with the addition of 50 years of oldies to keep people inside their own musical time capsule comfort bubbles. The thing is, for people who feel it, who are passionate, who care about what we listen to, it's usually taken some work to find it. Some, maybe most, people just want a backdrop, they want to be lulled by familiarity. I don't, and I make music for people who also don't. It used to be underground publications, college stations and niche commercial ones. Now it's curated internet radio streams like SomaFM and DIY musician-friendly platforms like Bandcamp. There is SO much great music available out there that it's like trying to drink from a firehose. If I keep a SomaFM or other curated station on while I'm at the computer, I have to keep a note-taking program handy just to write down all the stuff that I find interesting. And then I go to Bandcamp and buy it if I really like it. From the 70's onward, I didn't listen to mainstream commercial radio stations and now I don't listen to Spotify or Pandora. Don't accept what the big companies are trying to force you to like. CORPORATE MUSIC STILL SUCKS. If you want to hear adventurous music, you must yourself be adventurous and go find it.
So back when I was in my late teens, I was very much into 60's and 70's blues, rock, and even folk. I looked around at all the other folks my age and thought I was better than them because I wasn't listening to "sell out corporate types" that were only really making music to "feed the industry more consumer products". I was a standard issue teenager who thought I had all the answers but all I really had was a giant chip on my shoulder. In the following five or so years, it hit me that the music I was listening to wasn't the exception. I was looking down on people who were really into pop bands while listening to The Beatles. It suddenly dawned on me that most of the artists I was listening to had long since "sold out" and that "selling out" didn't really mean anything. My favorite artists like Clapton, Pink Floyd, and the even blues players like B.B. King or Robert Cray were all pretty deep into the music industry and could all technically be considered "sell outs" by someone with a holier than thou but otherwise narrowminded view about how the industry works. Now more than a few decades later, I use Spotify to listen to albums that I know I already like. I use it to track down music that I might not normally have purchased but wanted to hear for a long time. Spotify isn't the problem, it is the fact that a great many music listeners are never encouraged by their peers and educators to even care in the first place that is the problem. I don't let Spotify suggest stuff to me, I don't listen to random playlists. The only playlists I listen to are a given artist's entire catalog of albums as a playlist (in order, no shuffle). Spotify is just a service, it falls on you to be able to use it to get what you want.
This is reminding me I still need to listen to red voxs albums besides the first one
Exactly !
@@startrekmikeI, for one, am really greatful for Spotify for recommending me many awesome artists. You still need to put in the "work" and listen to different stuff that you enjoy, but after their algorithms start to understand you, that's when they start to deliver. I love listening to Daily Mixes and to let Spotify keep playing random tunes after I finish listening to an album.
I've been wanting to find an easy-ish way of finding new music that isn't pop for years now and there's a few places like Paste's youtube channel where they post new artists and songs, NPR's Tiny Desk, but it's a LOT of work to just get a variety mix these days. hell, i didn't even know my a few of my favorite bands have had new albums in the last 5 years because if you're not actively following them or in the scene it seems, it just gets washed away in the mix of everything going on. THANK YOU for recommending SomaFM, I'll check it out
This is exactly why I get so bored when I try to make super specific playlist. When I try to focus too hard on a specific genre it just becomes a really bland and one-note experience. That's why I think making big playlists with more variety creates much more fun experoences
Aside from the above solution, I've also tried making playlists based around a sort of 'mood'. Like if there were a personal radio station for an evening after work, what would I want it to play? Etc
That’s what I use my “liked” playlist. I put all the music I like into it and it can go to different places
@Peters-xh4xkwell thanks for the inspiration, that sounds cool, gonna make my own all music playlist
My playlists are sorted into 'this makes me cry' 'high bpm' 'low bpm'.
I am not really good at making specific playlist. Usually I just dump all of the songs/musics that I really like to "My Fav", and this playlist will have 100+ musics from all genres and countries and they're fun to listen to when bored. One moment I could listen to a sad ost from a game, to a sad song under a really hype music (usually from Japan), to even a screaming rock. It was fun
I have lately felt like music has been bland, unappealing to me. I like the kinds of music that present a story, whether it be through the entire album or just one song, but I want something that at the end has a purpose and a point. One that has meaning behind it. This has convinced me to look through actual catalogs of artists an albums I had never even heard of
I’m in the same boat.
Try Agust D's "So Far Away" then Agust D's "Snooze" RM's Voice, Persona, Wildflower
The Divider by Benn
@@VintageMemory not bad song at all
Try xi. He's an artcore artist that makes really good songs. He's also in many rhythm games. Some really good songs he made are happy end of the world, ascension to heaven, and overwhelm. Also sewerslvt. They quit making music almost 2 years ago but a lot of songs they make are full of emotion. I don't know what type of music they make, but it is type of experimental genre.
Watching 80s bands just giving it all they got in their live performances, I realized that such music is not really replacable. Every member of the band has a unique style that is pretty much impossible to replicate (and trying to recreate the equipment they used back then also must also be next to impossible). Then you have modern generic music, often entirely digitally produced and quite simple, using popular VST plugins and samples and whatnot. That's a thing anyone with enough determination and sufficient FL Studio skills can remake. Oh and bro nailed it at 3:55
Both Eleanor Rigby and Norwegian Wood by The Beatles are only 2 minutes long and yet they sound completely different because Lennon and McCartney knew to never pigeonhole themselves to one particular genre or style. THAT'S the secret to staying creative and unique, by throwing away the obsession of staying within a genre or conforming to what everyone else is doing.
@The Tired Horizon definitely not ignoring those factors, and back then their success and income allowed them to be creative like I mentioned. Nowadays, you don't need thousands upon thousands of dollars to produce studio quality music, but you do need time. The Beatles' success as working musicians afforded them both time and money. Again nowadays, I think if someone has a stable day job that doesn't hinge on music success for stable income, they don't have be under pressure and create what they want. After that it's up to the algorithm or niche industry people that could help get them noticed. Kris Kristofferson worked as a janitor at a recording studio and got his songs noticed by Willie Nelson who then recorded them got them LOTS of attention. It doesn't work as easy like that anymore of course, but the idea of getting your stuff noticed still applies, whether by chance or deliberate effort (which requires it's own strategies, marketing, and labour that many musicians may not have time for if they are spinning many plates for income already)
The Beatles were unsigned acts?
@@ebx100 I don't think they've ever been unsigned in their history after getting picked up during their gigging days.
That's also because Harrison wrote Norwegian Wood
This is why I started buying CD's and enjoyed music by the album rather than specific playlists with songs I picked out. Albums are where the true art of music really shines
I'd love to do the same, but it's really expensive!
@@Celeste-cc3hu buy secondhand if you can!
This is the way
@@Celeste-cc3hueven just do a full album playthrough directly from the artists page
I don’t think that’s objectively true, but I think art shines when it’s been laboured over in one way or another. The advent of Spotify/KZhead lowers the threshold for sharing. Back in the day if you wanted to release music you also had to spend on CDs, create and print cover art etc… spending more time with your work is naturally going to give you a stronger sense of meaning, and a desire to make it the best it can be.
I thought I was the only person that thought music was melting into the same song over and over again, and I’m glad other people understand the same
That’s why sharing music is so important to me, and why I ask people I meet to share their favorite music with me ! I discovered so much genres and artists I would’ve never heard of otherwise this way
I personally have found it much easier to discover new music on KZhead than any other platform.
agreed
^
Same
I found some of my favorite artists through KZhead!
SoundCloud>
Anyone who genuinely loves music and how healing it can be will never stop searching. There is a lot out there, just be willing to be called weird. Don't just wait for references or recommendations.
Yep absolutely
Aman brother
One thing I think this video kinda missed is that with how accessible music is nowadays it's not really it's own activity for most. If you're really into music sure, you'll sit down to just listen to music. But for most people they'll just have it as backround noise when doing chores, school work, their job or on their commutes and that's the extent of it. It's not a thing in their life that they think deeply about at all, it's just there to fill a void of silence or block out other noise. I don't think algorithm tweaks will help at all in these cases (and for the record, I don't think there's anything bad about listening to music like this, not everyone needs to have music as their hobby)
I've actually found that recent changes to the youtube algorithm that put up videos from very small channels have allowed me to find some very small musicians who have uploaded their work here which I think is cool and it would be great if music streaming services would add similar functions into their algorithms as well since I think it's a great way to promote that kind of exploration
I noticed that too! Lately I got on my main page a lot of songs with 4 views or sometimes even less
Definetely noticed it. At times i get some random person with only like 50 views.
same, i also found some amazing music from it
Yeah! I actually found some good songs from youtube randomize playlist. Like, genuinely good songs that good enough I put them in my own youtube playlist.
yep! my feed is now small artists and little cat videos. its really nice to find gold in the dirt (not saying everyone else on youtube sucks!!! i watch tons of things per day!😊)
I mainly use Spotify, but according to obscurify, I have tastes 98% more obscure than the rest of the people who have used that website. I mostly got into Spotify to find what I liked, and I found tons of music I would not have been able too otherwise. Now that I know what I want, I skip over too Bandcamp to buy the things I do like enough to do so. I guess I use Spotify kind of like a demo.
I tried obscurify and it said I have 94% more obscure taste which actually surprised me because I will admit I don't really seek out obscure stuff. I listen to lots of artists, but my favorite is still a band with ten million monthly listeners
@@homosapien7316 I think it counts the number of genres you listen too and how many other people listen to that. I had spotify give me a notif that i listened to 726 new genres since it last counted lol.
I'm the same way. Streaming is for discovery, and if I like it I support the artist directly
I got a feeling that anyone who doesn't listen to K-Pop or modern pop music will get a high obscurify rating, since I usually listen to popular J-Pop music and still be able to get 94% rating
I gave Spotify a chance several times, but it just was NOT good for finding new things. Which is, you know, the whole purpose of musical streaming. And turns out it only worked because I left the DRM on by mistake, so this makes the service unusable for me now.
John Peel, the famous BBC radio host, had a good policy for expanding people’s music tastes. He said his aim was to find “the right balance between music I know you will like and music I think you might like.”
I’ve always tended to avoid playlists and stuck to albums or singles, I think it’s a shame that music artists now have to try and cater to this formula for creating the most same-y music that has taken over everything.
This is why, in my view, Bandcamp is far and away the best music delivery medium. It features actual editorial written by people who actually care about music. The only wonder to me is that the same model hasn't' been copied for books, comedy, magazines, news, whatever…
@@guotesuoze Ask yourself the honest question, why would people discover you? What did you do, in order to make that happen?
@The Tired Horizon Yup, that's why curated stuff just isn't the solution. The best solution to new is to just always be on the hunt for music that fits your taste.
To comments, Bandcamp isn't meant to do marketing or discoverability for you, it's just meant to be a platform for selling your stuff the way you want to.
@@kaimanthelizardwizard1248 That's my preferred way of hunting down new music on the site. I go search for genres I enjoy, if I like a track, I see its tags and I look further using those and slowly branch out. Very rarely do I click on an album in a constantly scrolling "just released" section.
@@guotesuozeno that’s because it’s human and not infested with bots like Spotify…. Bandcamp is real Spotify is corporate garbage and useless algorithms
Also, one very important part is that A PLAY IS NOT A LISTEN. What this means is that the songs that get the most PLAYS make the most money. For example, the more experimental music that really needs your attention, that you actually need to sit down and LISTEN to, gets fewer plays. Music that can just sit in the background, that is not bad enough for you to hit NEXT but not good enough to really catch your attention, can get millions and millions of plays on Spotify.
Very true
Indeed, problem is that major labels control most of the playlists at streaming platforms. People are just lazy and click at the highlighted playlists curated by major labels. All these songs get in the charts because of plays and clicks! For most people it's just background noise. This is something different than purchase a song or album. Charts based on clicks and plays are misleading, and orchestrated by the major labels!
I have felt this way for a good few years now. I stopped listening to modern music a few years ago and have been listening to less mainstream music, in fact I swear by it. I enjoy it, and it has endlessly helped during studying and other similar activities. The music I listen to varies considerably in length, from track lengths just less than a minute to an entire album which can be played as a continuous 45 minute track. It is just where my taste in music has taken me but I am so glad I broke away feom the music I used to listen to.
I love your editing style! It's so refreshing to not see any jump cuts and the way you use other footage where a jump cut would have been reminds me of how I was taught video editing ^^ The general vibe of the visuals are also very much my thing, keep doing what you're doing, it's great!
I used to be close friends with another music producer that valued streams and playlists over everything. He believed that the best way to "make it" was to put my tracks in top spots of huge generalized playlist that had no connection to the genre I was making, and it didn't matter if the people streamed my stuff almost by accident. He thought I should make "more accessible" stuff, that fit a precise genre that was easy to market on Spotify, and that was very frustrating for me. This worldview kinda blocked my creativity, because everytime I made a song I'd think "no, this won't work on Spotify" and didn't even finish it. After almost two years of not finishing songs, I made one that I was REALLY happy about - very experimental for me, blending dnb with baile, techno and lo fi aesthetics. This friend of mine heard it and said "what even is this." I had enough, so I told him to go fuck himself and never talked to him again. I'm not making as many streams now, but I'm making music and I'm happy. Fuck playlists.
you just need to find the audience that like your music, if they like it, they want more, if they want more, you create more. being manipulative is how you fade forever into the background
Yeah but you can't eat an cake and have it at the same time, you have to make an choice do you want to make music as an main source of income? You have to sacrifice a little bit of creativity. Do you want to create music as hobby? You are going to sacrifice time for searching and then mantain the main income job.
hey, can you drop the song link? i’d love to hear that genre blend as a fellow what-even-is-this-artist
@@filipskacel thank you!! Can't post links tho, look for 5HOW - NOTGOOD
@@giulianogisotti4107 This is really good! Funny enough, I feel like this could totally be playlist material
I've always hated Playlists. I find albums or full discographies to be a much more enjoyable and rewarding listening experience. Hearing how a musician has developed their sound over the course of time through various projects and albums is also an active learning experience for the artist and the listener. If you want to find "new" music that you enjoy. Find artists or record labels you enjoy and see what names keep popping up and you'll eventually find the music you are looking for. And Bandcamp allows listeners to see what other users purchased. So I could follow another person who also bought the same 20 albums I did...because there is probably some overlap.
some of us have jobs that we need music for
completely agree. personally, I listen to a lot of EDM, and through record labels I’ve found multiple artists I like, and through searching the discographies of the artists, I’ve seen their evolution, the way they try to perfect their own style, their occasional experiment with another genre, etc. you can’t let a playlist enclose you into the same kind of music over and over, it’s better to go out and search for it. for example, in genres like Dubstep, Drum & Bass or House (which are some of the ones I mainly listen to), there are so many underground producers with less than 1000 followers that make better stuff than the big ones. of course, the problem is that they don’t get enough attention.
when i listen to music, i almost exclusively listen to full albums
My playlists are just a group of albums put together so that I can listen back to back.
I kind of agree but it's rare as hell to find an album where I like nearly every song... listening to a bad song makes me wish it were a playlist
It’s absolutely bonkers to me that we have the entire internet at our fingertips yet we’re the most sheltered and pigeon-holed than we’ve ever been Just pick a random genre you’ve got loose interest in and listen to what comes up, easiest way to diversify your taste if you base it on the weather or your current mood it’ll always feel like vibes 👌
The more we open up, the more we isolate ourselves. A curious phenomenon.
ive never ever listened to any of these general playlists; out of multiple reasons: (1) i rarely want to listen to a bunch of songs that are very similar to each other; even if i want a specific mood, i prefer listening to songs that accomplish to have that mood but in very different ways (2) because i generally want to create a playlist myself because i believe that not everyone can just throw some songs into a playlist and make me like it. i want the control of which songs I want to listen to together with which others. Also, when listening to *my* playlist, I know that it contains songs that *i* like and not ones that some stranger thought they should put together in a playlist
The Pop music genre in general has kinda always been like this, its just gotten more noticeable over the years Things like Folk rock, vocaloid, metal, etc have always had more spirit and passion to it compared to the simple “push out an album every month” type music thats happening now Ever since i started to get into vocaloid a few years back i started to notice just how diverse my music taste got and how much more i can listen to the same song on repeat without ever getting tired of it
Oh I love folk rock and vocaloid
folk rock sounds amazing and i would love recommendations if you have any
vocaloid is pretty much one of the best things that have happened in my life ngl like, you have such a diverse range of genres and songs to pick its amazing. could rant on and on about my favourite songs and how great it is but this comment would be way too long
As a pop fan though I have been noticing a decline in that genre too. Pop used to have this fun authentic feel to it, now every new pop song on the radio feels so bland and corporate.
Interestingly, actual pop hits nowadays are extremely diverse compared to 2007. Lil Nas X, Rosalía, Lorde, Billie Eilish, Lana del Rey, Florence don't sound ANYTHING alike.
I'm only into video game music so it comes naturally curated into a playlist. Video games support music in a great way because they're free to be what they want while supporting a greater work of art. It avoids all of the nonsense of needing to be marketable since that responsibility cedes to the game as a whole. From my perspective, music is on an amazing high and keeps on putting out amazing songs.
Same. I got recently into arknights. And now it's music is what I listen to most these days.
Video game music doesn't come from nowhere. It has its roots in real musicians with real faces who played shows in front of real people. Study up on 70's progressive rock, jazz fusion, new wave and electronic music both old and new. If you like the classics, support new artists who sound like that because they need it.
@@unknown6390 Of course it has roots in real musicians, because it is a real music. Every music has it´s roots in all other umsicians because music is a concept.
Why "only"? For what reason would you limit yourself to a genre (that isnt even a genre really)?
definitely a good point. the use of game music is more to create an atmosphere in that game that fits the current level or whatever and make the game stand out to new players. They dont need to sell that music, they sell the game, so it is usually more unique
As someone who doesn’t use Spotify and mostly finds music from AMVs, this is really fascinating to learn about since I almost have the exact opposite experience
I use Spotify to save music I like and save everything In a single playlist not for listen most of the music I consume is from KZhead and I discovered most of the songs on KZhead I really love lyric videos also AMv that helped me to find interesting artists
What's AMV
@@gringosdarr Animated Music Video, or in the past, Anime Music Video. Back when I was a kid you’d find a bunch of videos that were basically just clips from popular tv shows like Naruto, Pokémon or My Little Pony put to a specific song to create a music video out of it. They’d usually feature either nightcore remixes of popular songs at the time, or punk and emo music, though newer AMVs tend to focus on more obscure music from up and coming bands
@@steampunk-llama classic stuff
In that case maybe you’ll like vocaloid stuff, those often come with original animations of their own. Especially people like niru kajitsu who pretty much makes the songs into mini stories of their own and sometimes a couple of them a connected.
This is why I respect Lil Uzi Vert for putting out Pink Tape. It's just out there and clearly had some fun with it. To see someone as mainstream as him to experiment was delightful. Of course The End ft. Babymetal now has become one of my favourite songs as of recent
this reads like a hhcj post😭😭😭
The End is fantastic
Just listened to 2 tracks off pink tape. Terrible. If this qualifies as good these days, no wonder music is so trash currently.
His album is called pink tape? Like the f(x) album?
Ooh pink tape. Soo edgy
One way I always find new music is not limiting myself to English based music. I have music from a bunch of different languages and countries all over from Korea, Germany, Russia, China, Hong Kong, Japan, Brazil, and a few more. While some of that music is definitely influenced by popular music from America and Britian, they always put some kind of unqiue and creative spin on it, or the language itself allows for unqiue rhymes and rhythms not possible in English.
could i get some recommendations for some songs? ideally more European ones since im drowning in the vocaloid fandom and my parents are chinese but if they are really good songs i dont mind
@@iknowyoursearchhistory Any particular genres that you would prefer? Rap, metal, electric, etc?
I’ve been doing this aswell recently! The only problem I’m having is that I can only hum the songs since I can’t speak the language. 😂 Nevertheless, the music made internationally has way more uniqueness than the music here in America lol.
@iknowyoursearchhistory you could try Red army choir, they are very good, they don't play into the tiktok trend crap, and they have more meaningful songs (eg.The Lenin Song)
Brazil mentioned 🇧🇷🇧🇷
Don’t underestimate the power of gigs. If you can perform live, do it. It’s my favorite part about being a musician.
This is the underrated aspect that fellow desktop musicians miss out on, find the avenues that enable your music to live and make it digestible to a live audience. Make a world that someone will check you out on irl, because in my mind as a consumer AND musician I'm also looking for the music I want in the avenues that support it.
I’ve found several local bands from them opening for touring bands, it’s definitely a good way to get your name out in the area.
this video inspired me to reflect on how i listen to music. ive decided to focus on listening to full albums, and so far, i am loving it. ive been finding some great albums across various genres (pop, rock, jazz, and classical are usually what i like genre-wise). its a much more rewarding way of listening to music. i think my next step is actually going out to buy a few cds of my favorite albums
As a fellow artist that doesn’t create primarily music (independent animator) this video really resonated with me as well. You’ve managed to put all my thoughts of “art consumerism” in one video and I applaud you for that. Thank you for this, more people need to experience this.
As an Indie metal fan, what frustrates me the most is the effect this has on people's tastes and curiosity. Because its now so easy to consume this music, it makes people not only satisfied, but highly incurious and confused about music that isn't what mainstream at the moment. I can explain to many people why they should buy a certain car, get a certain phone, and even what TV show or movie to watch in great depth and people are willing to listen. But in my experience, its impossible to expand peoples horizons with music unless they explicitly want to. Its important to recognize that what the market provides also shapes people's tastes and interests. Why would listeners want anything different when all they have access to is a certain product? Algorithms are aggressive in pushing the same thing over and over again and you got that point right on the nail.
I've been exploring metal music and was curious what other people are listening to or if metal even has popular bands. How do you look for bands?
@@notequalto5179 I'm not sure, I stumble across the new ones on KZhead, though in recent years its been getting worse and worse at showing me new stuff. There are now a few medium sized reaction channels that react to new stuff coming out. There are some other types of metal that gets extremely little coverage, particularly softer instrumental stuff. I now stick with 70 or so bands I really like and hope that I find cool new artists on youtube or via these metal music channels.
bro what is indie metal Is it just metal bands without a label(which is what indie is) or is it a genre like pop indie
@@Aspenstorpemusic without a label. But there are certain styles of metal that are more likely to be without a label.
@@notequalto5179 Metal definately has popular bands. Mostly the old greats I would say, like Iron Maiden, Metallica, Sodom, Ozzy Osbourne etc. Power Metal is also really popular, it's basically the pop music of metal. On how you discover new metal bands depends on what you're looking for. There are some great KZhead channels that post a lot of new Albums of a specific genre. If you like Black Metal for example, Black Metal Promotion is a very convenient way to discover new bands. Also, going on music festivals that has 100s of bands playing, and visiting the small stage is an awesome experience. The musicians there are usually very passionate and apprechiative of the few listeners they have. I discovered some awesome bands that way that are criminally underrated.
It's worth remembering playlists, especially the generated ones, are designed to sound same-y. They use algorithms to select music with consistent moods, genres etc. So one solution to the issue of same-y sounding music is to... not use playlists. Listen to whole albums, that's a good first step.
I remember Spotify coming up with this "tastebreaker" curated playlist that had songs markedly different from what I usually listen to, what do you think about something like that being popularized?
i think you should find your own music and not pay something to do it for you if you actually care
This is a fantastic video. Thank you for that! It really resonated with me. I’ve also seen this in the KZhead realm lately… the money is really in the amount of content you put out, not the quality (after a certain point) - I’ve grown a bit disheartened seeing other creators in my space putting their previous level of attention to their craft aside to get the number of videos they put out every month up. And that’s a personal battle a lot of creators and musicians will need to face and decide for themselves at some point, with where the platforms we have available to us are at currently. It’s really too bad.
Hah! I've been hearing this same complaint since the 60s. It's ALWAYS been the case that independent and college radio stations play less homogenous music than commercial pop stations.
Independent and college radio are some of the best ways to discover new music and they're totally free to listen to, and now with the internet you can look them up so easily, even stream them if you can't listen on the radio. Amazing how well that medium has held up over the years.
Not a lot of college radio in my country that I'm aware of. Is it region locked and any particular stations anyone recommends?
"Hah!"
@@amoureux6502 my favorite thing to do when I’m bored is go to Radio Garden, and just pick a random station on the other side of the world and see what’s happening.
I have 200 monthly listeners on Spotify. It's not a lot by any stretch, but not surprising given that I only have two songs out. Having said that, the fact that there are at least 200 people in the world who like what I do and want to make it a regular addition to their lives satisfies me immensely. Would I like the number to be bigger? Sure! Would I like to be playing stadiums? Undoubtedly! But this is where I am, and I'm lucky to have those 200 people
You sir are an amazing musician who doesn’t just put out music to get paid, and for that you my respect and gratitude.
Brilliant mindset, I hope you find success, although honestly, I think you already have! Good on you and good luck mate
200 with only two songs is insane
Prog rock then, now, and forever. Progrock is what I would say the successor of classical music.
Hi. I don't think I've watched a video of yours before. I really liked the stuff you said here as a lot of it resonates with my thoughts on the current state of mainstream music. Thank you for not focusing on demonizing viral artists. It's not their fault that they are just satisfying the algorithm to make it out there. Again, thank you for putting deep thought into this.
That "John Mellencamp approach" is pretty much what Bruno Mars did too. His first album was some of the blandest pop I'd ever heard, but it made him popular. Then he started making the music he actually wanted to make, and started dropping bangers.
Good idea, if you have the looks. Yes that’s right. Pop= listen with your eyes. If i recorded the best album in the workd tomorrow, nobody would care cause i wouldn’t look the part.
@@henrikduende No one cares what musicians look like anymore. Just look at Post Malone.
@ghost mall I don't understand why you people can't like two different things at the same time
Inb4 "John Cougar Bandcamp"
who gives a toss what you look like? if you are ugly, just surround yourself with pretty ladies, cars, sailboats, landscapes, architecture,.... in your videos
I think that, as oversaturated the market has become, this is actually the perfect time to be more mold-breaking. It's times like these where people will start to try going out of their way to discovering new music themselves, not to mention that certain genres, especially the more "underground" types, will always be more innovative and encourage said innovation. It is better to gain a cult following than to appeal to the lowest common denominator, especially when making the kind of music you love. I say that we should perceive the current state of music as a challenge, and more of a reason to try going against the grain.
As a composer and musician who regularly releases music, I can say the playlistification of music is truely an issue in the industry. I compose solo neo-classical piano music, and within this genre, there are many large Spotify playlists that dictate the the type of music artists create (Peaceful Piano -7 mil, Piano in the Background 1.7 mil, Intense studying - 2.5 mil etc). There is essentially a criteria to be able to get playlisted, composing using this specific formula is the only way to have any chance of landing on these playlists. Generally the music has to be soft, slow, between 2-3 minutes, and has to use a felted upright piano (no grand pianos are found on these playlists). As artists we are challenged by this notion. Do we create music true to ourselves or do we create music likely to get picked up on these editorial playlists and have the possibility to go viral? Many musicians struggle with this because creating unique music that doesn't follow the trend could mean 0 streams. But landing on one of these playlists could mean millions. I'm lucky enough to have landed on a few of these playlists myself and have seen millions of streams on these tracks whilst others which haven't been playlisted will be lucky to get a few thousand. Labels are also seeing this as a big issue, only taking on artists who they think have a chance to go viral or have that right sound. This is really mitigating the creativity and is a big issue in the music industry.
Lots of great thoughts. Thank you so much for presenting your well articulated viewpoints
You can see how this playlistification has become an entire industry by itself. For example, there is an artist on Spotify with millions of listeners, but while I was searching more about him I see many odd things: 1st: he doesn't have that many social network followers; 2nd: he is in a lot of spotify playlists with exactly the same mood/theme where his music is played every 1-2 songs, many of them with artist collaborations; 3rd: the cover art of almost all of his releases has the same location and dark blue-green color as well as the rest of the music and artists of the playlists he is in; 4th: the playlists curators also have other playlists where they repeat pretty much the same theme or topic and then they add almost exactly the same songs again; 5th: some of the "other" artists in those playlists doesn't even have a biography nor social network links (but thousands of listeners); 6th: his bandcamp page have just a few purchases of his music. And like him many other artists are doing the same, perpetuating this playlistification further and altering the spotify algorithm to their own benefit
Let me guess, is it the "dreamcore" playlists you're talking about?
@@pallah0077 yep, is one of those
Why be so vague? Who’s the artist?
@@prettierjesus3119 øneheart
Maybe its a Fake artist, Jazz playlist are full of them.
Character playlists I've made definitely helped challenge myself into finding music to fit a character than putting trendy music or similar sounding songs into it and call it a day. A lot of my thought process goes from one song standing out to me and then shaping around it, what would the character listen to personally, lyrically do I think it fits them? and lastly, can I picture an animatic/ them listening to it? It has pointed me to a lot of songs/ bands I've heard in passing and giving them another go. It also helps that I genuinely mesh with most music genres and loving the vocal synth community and vocaloid producers, which have its own range of genres and vocal ranges, helped me shape the taste I have. I was also on the internet when AMVs were popular so finding music that way also helped big time.
Exactly!my favorite songs have come from making character playlists. I have at least 20 of them lmao
I like character playlists too, my only issue with them is the creators often seem to forget what character it is and slap a bunch of their favourite - irrelevant - mitski/mother mother/bo burnham etc. songs in there LMAO
@@Minceraft69 true!!! while yes sometimes they creep onto the playlist, I try not to put them on there
I've been trying to expand my music taste for that- I love to make ocs and stories and stuff so I naturally wanna make a playlist for them. Than, I just have to question what they would listen to/what songs fit their personality, backstory, etc.
@@Minceraft69Reminds me of that one playlist called "South Park vibes," it had Nobody, Devil Town, Washing Machine Heart, Rät, and of course, Christmas Kids on it.
I will not allow 5SOS to be slandered; listen to their Youngblood album. Absolutely amazing even if you didn’t know them before their hiatus
Thank you for this video, this needs more spotlight. While I agree with one commenter here that the situation is great for more people to find exposure and create music with easily accessible tools, the shift to focus on "content" instead of "art" is what I've been observing as well and made me rage inside a bit sometimes. But, somehow, in a way, the best and noteworthy music will prevail, will be handed down (friends, family) and will survive many generations, will be re-discovered etc, and the real filter for quality is maybe time?
the funniest thing is that when good music get's viral, it's like the first 10 seconds of the song, something like what tiktok did with every fucking tally hall song
I love these talks, dude. I’m over 40, & I’m not sure I ever understood how to “make it” in the music industry, but I surely don’t understand what’s happening currently. This is tasty food for thought!
Glad you enjoyed the video! This is one that's been on my mind for ages now so I'm glad it's finally out in the wild haha.
Same here, im 43 now. Sometimes i feel lost really, all this time and money spent into music for almost nothing. But still enjoying being locked up in the studio alone for days… Life’s strange
Music industry stuff has gotten very depressing. We’re too old for this.
@@LokidMusic48 here and same. But I need to create. 🤷
@@404T2K And to think, VenusTheory feels old at 29. I mean, I remember feeling old at 29. Though I never looked up how many bands 'broke' at the age of 29/early 30s. There are so many opportunities out there now but it's also over-saturated because everything is so easy. I'm 43 now and I feel as old as time. And it's true, when you have to write, you have to write. If I don't write music, create songs, I go a bit crazy. I'm a different person. I've started having regular jams again with my best friend who I first had a band with in high school and we hadn't written music together since that high school band broke up when we were in our early 20s. In a way it's nice knowing it won't go anywhere? That we can't go do some sort of regular spot in some dive because we both have families and it would be ridiculous. But hey, there's always bandcamp and the bespoke single-press vinyl manufacturers that have popped up. But yeah, if I'm being honest with myself, what used to be a possibility in our middle age is now so incredibly harder without being already established it's scary. At least through my 14-yr-old stepdaughter I can see that at least kids are still making bands, and still getting angry, and still being outside the mainstream here and there. The generation younger than the one ruling tiktok are already starting to get angry. I think this is a self-righting ship.
Remember, you can email people and book shows on your own. Playing shows with/for folks from your community can be intensely gratifying. If there isn’t an established scene in your style, it’s doubly as important to play live. You might be a key memory for someone not as far along as you. EDIT: Mentioning this to remind people that there are so many different ways of sharing your music that live somewhere in between busking/playing restaurants and toiling for the algorithm
I know a folk duo who make their entire career touring the world in people's home. They occasionally play festivals too but their main stuff is home concerts, and of course they sell CDs & vinyls at those concerts.
@koyl yes it’s called DIY, and this is how the vast majority of musicians you and everyone else likes started. Has always been, is currently, and will always be the main scene for art and music. DIY circuit: house shows, fleeting makeshift community spaces, small bars etc. This is happening in every town city of moderate size. You have to get out there and connect with the people running, playing and going to these spaces. Again, basically every musician of every genre that is known today started by being a part of a scene, playing in living rooms, basements, etc.
@@phillymopwater Yes of course. What I wanted to highlight is: they don't plan on doing something else, something more. They don't do that waiting to get signed or something alike. It IS their career. And in an era where having our "big break" involves writing music to please algorithms, it's important to remember that it's still an option, and a very good one.
@koyl yes well said
I'm currently on a DIY one man cross-country busking tour, living out of my truck camper and camping in parking lots and kind people's yards. When the urge to make art is strong enough, it finds a way
Excellent essay, Venus! I think large parts of your critique were echoed by critical theorists Theodor Adorno and Max Horkheimer in their 1947 essay The Culture Industry: Enlightenment as Mass Deception. It's incredible to see how long this issue has existed -- they bemoan the transformation of music from the classical orchestra to its Tin Pan Alley form. The character of music's reification has changed significantly through the years, and it was a treat to hear you fill in the missing pieces of their and Jameson's (Reification and Utopia in Mass Culture) culture critique. If you haven't read those essays, I think you would get a kick out of them. It's important to historicize these issues, and though you began to, I feel as though that's one of the few places your essay falls flat. That said, none of us are expecting an hour long materialist critique of the messy web of the modern music industry, and I don't fault you for that in the least. I look forward to seeing the essays you narrate in the future.
This guy literally just spent mad hours to produce a 20 minute video breaking down why his wife’s music tastes suck. Living with this guy must be a real treat.
And yet you came and watched the video giving him attention. Living in your head rent free for him, lol
@@rufocs686Do you hate his wife’s music taste too?
I completely get where he's coming from. I recently asked my younger cousin (she is like 19) what kind of music she listens to and she couldn't list any specific artists she prefers since she only listens to playlists and her boyfriend is the same. I'm 25 and I know hundreds of artists but even when I was in my teens, I knew a lot. The difference is I grew up with parents who weren't basic bitches 😂
I can't help but feel the so-called "playlistification" is why there are so many country songs on the Hot 100 as of now. With musicians putting focus towards playlists and TikTok, it's allowing the country fanbase to sneak into the "mainstream" charts
How about latin music and them charting on billboard?
@@mahiru20tenLatin music is actually good tho
@@anorakquest4004theyre not
@@anorakquest4004some of it is
@@anorakquest4004 if latin music was consistently good I would not have to put up with gasolina, dale vieja or nunca me faltes at parties in the year of our lord 2023 Not saying it's all bad or that there's no good new releases but come on man one of those is from 1996
Pandora did music discovery very well and were innovators before services like Spotify became popular. You could create personalized “Stations” based on specific artists you like. I liked making stations with several artists from vastly different genres, I found many great lesser-known artists that I’ve followed for years. It’s a shame Pandora fell behind and couldn’t compete with Spotify.
Pandora is excellent, their recommendations are consistently better than anybody. Spotify really sucks at this in particular.
I've created my own station on Pandora "Orbit Station". The station is specifically designed to offer variety in the vein of "and now, for something completely different". It has been available for years. Currently there are 1821 thumbs up and 374 thumbs down. I don't know how that compares to other stations. The station has many genres but not rap, hip hop, opera, general contemporary pop or even long form art music (symphonies, etc.).
I remember tossing pandora my email in case they ever do become available in my country 10 years ago. Just checked their website and now I'm kinda mad, how they remain inaccessible to this day.
the discovery on Pandora was incredible. I found so many artists I never would've heard before because of their algorithm
@@Krunschy I bought a vpn just for pandora about 13 years ago in Australia. I was very happy about it.
Since I'm developing my own music service and want to get it right - this video has helped to develop my opinion on how some stuff should work really well. Thank you so much!
The only way I discover new songs/artists is looking at what playlists songs i like are in, searching up keywords and listening to the songs/artists I also really hate genre centered playlists, I just shove a bunch of songs I like together and thats my playlist
My taste is so diverse that I've never really run into these problems personally. I also actively look for music that will give me a fresh experience, further diversifying my range of genre's ect
Man, you've really found your niche here with these video essays. Loving them!
Quality stuff right? Really liking this a lot!
This opened my eyes in a way I wasn't expecting I'm not a musician at all but I'm diving in content creation and I think this applies to most of what I do. I love creating videos and I pour my soul into them but I have to sprinkle a "commercial" approach now and then if I'm ever to find an audience. Thank you!
i find some pretty interesting music by just adding every interesting looking playlist (not just ones made by spotify), discover weekly, release radar, discographies, songs people suggest, etc. to one giant playlist of songs ive never listened to and then shuffling it. it gives me both new artists and obscure old artists that almost had their music become lost media. it also gives me some more popular stuff but yknow, some of it sounds good to me and thats what counts
Music is absolutely not getting more boring. In fact, I think it's probably the opposite. I think 2022 was one of the best years for music in a long time (maybe since '97), and I say that as a person whose favorite decade of music is the 70's. Some artists that are exciting and interesting include black midi, Black Country New Road, Charlotte Adigery, King Gizzard and The Lizard Wizard, Soul Glo, Quadeca, Julia Jacklin, Weyes Blood, Jockstrap, Non Plus Temps, Nim Sadot, Squid, Minor Conflict, Horsey, Kendrick Lamar, Italia 90, Mandy Indiana, Q, Sufjan Stevens, yeule, Gina Birch, Haken, Spellling, etc. Give a couple of them a chance, or ask in the replies what genre a specific one is, if you're interested, and I will answer.
are there any ones on this list or in general that are similar to weyes blood? i liked some of her tracks on titanic rising.
I enjoy the guy but your fantano core answers are indicative still of the problem the video is trying to get across. Many of the artist you list have been struggling for over 5 years minimum to get the attention they did under their names. Artists are given incentives to make music that is generic in order to get the real meat for success; exposure, streams, money, record deals. Virality is getting inexperienced teens exploitative record deals months after they make a hit.
black midi is frickin goated. Glad to see someone name drop them here
@@unknown6390 has Fantano even covered half of them? I've never seen him even acknowledge Haken and they've been around since like 2007. Gina Birch is old blood, a member of the group The Raincoats from the last 70's. I also don't know if he's talked about Non Plus Temps, Nim Sadot, Minor Conflict, Horsey, Italia 90, Mandy Indiana, or Q, but really the point of my comment was to acknowledge that these artists aren't very well known and to help people with that "digging" process that you seem to have to go through when looking for music that isn't overtly attempting to be mainstream and accessible. I do a lot of digging myself, and listen to a dozen albums a day sometimes, but I understand that not everyone has that kind of time. That's the point of my comment. And the Fantano thing is irrelevant because I haven't found any of these artists through him, I've found all of them through Spotify recommendations and browsing modern years on Discogs master release list.
@@giantclaw138 going to see them in concert tomorrow!
I'm 49 and from the UK. I lived through a time when, for example, dance music exploded of which so much was creative at the time. But most people have never been particularly into seeking music. Back in the 80s and 80s, most people only knew bands that charted, and maybe a few local groups, if that. I believe this was pretty much the case across Europe and on both major sides of the Atlantic pond. I don't think consumers are in any way more ignorant and less explorative about music than they were in the past - at least certainly not for my generation. I've got more access to music I wouldn't have heard before than I ever would have got trawling through record shops, testing out CDs or vinyl in store, and spending my hard earned cash taking a punt on physical products. I do feel in many ways, music is more democratic than it once was. It's just more complicated because there are so many more artists - anyone can start making tunes with a little time and a small investment in cool looking electronics with glowing LED buttons. That's not to say that there isn't a problem with the algorythms of discovery, and it can't be improved upon. But being discovered is nothing new. 🤔 Hope I said to say what I intended to. Excellent and insightful video.
There's a reason why I usually look up old songs. Even when I use spotify, I will personally look up old songs from the 90's till before 2010. Sometimes I also look up ost from either my fav games or anime/movies. If I like their songs enough, I will look up the artists and see if I like their other songs. Sometimes, I also just open youtube and use the randomize playlist. They can either give me good songs that I may hook up to, or they're just boring. Fortunately they're often good music. But really, most of those songs are not even recently release! They're often from years past. Honestly, personally I do find recent songs to be boring. They don't even have decent or good meaning.
No one will read this but I have to put it into the void. Songza was my absolute favorite music app in the mid-2010's because they made playlists so specific that I discovered so many of my now favorite artists! Nowadays music algorithms play the same five artists to me that I already listen to.
the same five artist thing is so right. on Spotify I almost never use the song recommendations for my playlists because they literally give me the same artists. Sometimes it will be the same songs that are already on the playlist..
I'm 34 and listen to albums 80% of the time. I feel like in the metal genre this is still fairly common. But yes, I use Spotify as Spotify is like paradise for a person who wished something like this did exist back in the days when I was young and poor and couldn't afford all the music I wanted to listen to.
Eh, Spotify would be a nightmare for me, because not only certain tracks don't exist in Spotify, but also creating a playlist which i haven't made it, makes it more difficult for me to change to Spotify. Also monthly subscription is a no no for me
Being young and poor is exactly the reason i cancelled my spotify subscription lol, as much as i love the convenience of streaming services, soulseek is cheaper
@@Synthanarchist 10€ for as much music as you like + podcasts is too much for you? Sorry I don't get it. Yes, a few tracks don't exist but that only bothers me when it's songs I know and they're not there (anymore). But I still have those songs on my harddrive anyway and if I really need a song or album that's not on Spotify, I just buy it.
@@spacegrass6632 Even when I was super low on budget, I still kept my spotify. It's 10€/month which is still way cheaper than buying albums as I did when I was young. I could only afford like 1 cd a month (around 10€, too) and would've killed for the Spotify option. Not sure how old you are but believe me, Spotify costs nothing compared to buying music back in the days.
@@plantifulalexandra due to economic problems. I don't even get money often, only on occasions, which is why I'm not paying monthly subscription
I'm in my late 40s, so I refuse to just fall in with throwing on a playlist or having an alogrhythm choose my music for me. I still listen to complete albums as much as possible. I find new artists and sounds by talking to friends and record store employees about music.
I make it a challenge to throw the Spotify algorithm to a confusion by listening to as much as I can. This, paired with handing my phone to anyone riding shotgun in my car, further confusing my algorithm, it allows my different "mixes" to be extremely varied.
Also, once again, thinking about your video, it brings up a paraphrase: "You cannot kill the Metal."
Great video, I'm always impressed by the quality of the content you put out.
If your taste in music is homogenous, then the playlists Spotify makes for you will be homogenous. But if you listen to a variety of different music, then Spotify will make more diverse playlists for you. So, if you don't want homogenous playlists, explore different genres and styles of music, get recommendations outside of Spotify, and do some deep diving. One of the main reasons I have Spotify is to explore music, and thanks to having it, I listen to a lot more new music than I otherwise would.
You shouldn't have to find the songs yourself for Spotify to say "Hey we should recommend this guy new songs"
@@darthvader8744 spotify is a site bro not a human it dont care or feel any emotion its ur choice whether u want new music or not
Lol yeah, I’ve been using Spotify for something like 10 years and they’ve never been able to nail me down
Never been a passive/idle listener. I am very meticulous picker, I don't just "like" the first song that pops into my recommendations. I am very "strict" about the melodies and production styles that I listen to. In turn, it reflects on my Spotify playlists. I am actually excited about my Discover Weekly every Monday. Out of 30 songs, I would probably just "like" 3-5 songs, but insanely good ones. Discard the rest. Don't want that garbage polluting my perfectly curated algorithm.
Bravo. Incredibly done. As a hip-hop and lofi producer as well as a rapper who's past his prime- this resonates with me. I don't know if it's selling myself short- but I've never been one to make music for the masses. I've never been the type to make a cookie-cutter song. I'm also not looking to get signed or make millions. I'm not aiming for a pop playlist or top 40 list. I make music for me. If others can relate to my music, take anything from a song or simply enjoy it- it's an added bonus. Music is therapeutic. It's my passion. I wish more people knew of me and my music- but it comes with the territory. We live in such an oversaturated market and as you said- people's attention spans are slim to none. Because of this- I doubt many read this far- if you did and want to support a middle aged father and musician- search for Soul Panda, Earth Born or tenSHUN on all streaming platforms. Thank you.
I read that far…KEEP DOING WHAT YOU LOVE. Peace. 👊🏽🙏🏽
@@SimonePhoenix appreciate you!! I still have a few years left and then we'll see if my kids wish to pursue music lol
all the best!
This is the best video I have watched this year, and probably one of the best of my entire life. I literally cannot put to words how this video perfectly encapsulates a problem with modern music that I have noticed for a long time, and I enjoyed every second of the well produce, written, and edited video. Thanks.
Most music is content now. But most people don’t care. Before streaming most people just listened to whatever was on the radio, now they just listen to what social medias feeds them.
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels on KZhead. GREAT video.
Holy shit it's Rhett Shull. Thanks so much dude, that made my day!
Whenever people talk about playlists I feel like an alien because I HATE playlists. I always end up defaulting to listening to one song on repeat, or a whole album from start to finish. I also don't particularly like radio because I like being able to predict what I'm gonna hear next. But even in my comfort and routine, I agree that a lot of music has gotten 'samey'. I rarely look for new music since I mostly enjoy music I've enjoyed for years, but when I do it's one song at a time and sifting through lots of songs, an overwhelming majority sound too similar to warrant the supposed genre distinctions between them.
it sounds like you may be autistic. you sound just like my autistic friend who hasn't changed what he listens to in about 18 years. don't take this as an attack 🙂
LMAO I'm 100% diagnosed autistic, so I didn't take offense.
@@wyltedleaves ayy looks like the radar is still working 😂
Definitely some interesting points that I agree with. It's true that it's hard to get your music out there now, but also I feel like it's much more rewarding to make music that you are proud of and that sounds more experimental and polished, even if it gets less exposure. I'm sure some people can relate.
Man, I really appreciate your work. I'm a full timer too and it's difficult in these times. Thank you for sharing.
What is interesting (ironic) is I joined Spotify because it was linked to a very specific algorithmic tool to find new music: Every Noise At Once. It finds "genres" by algorithm and offers four (sometimes five) types of playlist for each genre: "Sound of $FOO", "Intro to $FOO", "Pulse of $FOO", and "Edge of $FOO". Non-female-centric genres have a female-centric playlist. The "Sound of" also suggest other genres and looking up an artist you can find all the genres they show up in. I have at least 25 "Sound of $FOO" saved. Yes, must are in my core genres: types of metal and vaguely goth music. Yet, it also includes Bubblegrunge, Chalga (Bulgarian folk pop), Chamber Pysch, Gothic Americana, Turkish Reggae. The tools are there. Perhaps Spotify could put more emphasis on ENaO and it's Particle Detector. And I will be checking out Forgotify.
Fr one of the best pages. I share it with friends a lot
as someone whose entire paycheque depends on making playlist-friendly music, I feel this video. This is why artists don't have much of a choice: if I don't buff out the fun parts and make the music "easier to digest," then I literally make less money. When I've made music without restrictions in the past, a much smaller demographic will absolutely love it and listen to it for years, and it's extremely cathartic to the soul, at the cost of lower overall popularity and income. If I had a non-music day job, I wouldn't think twice.
I personally feel that if one is a true musician who has a vision, one can safely keep treading on a path based on his/ her ideals and try to avoid all this noise as much as possible. It will require patience, persistence and there might not be any gratification for years but over a longer period of time the vision can fall in place as the musician will definitely find a community that will eventually love the work and enjoy it however small that community might be. If one is more realistic this way and not fall for some pipe dream of becoming a super star then one can carve out a satisfactory career as an original musician because there will always be a group of people to support him/her no matter how big or small the scale. The landscape of music has changed but one can use one’s own discretion to decide what to accept and what to reject and stay true to the path as well as make use of the utilitarian value that some of the modern systems aiding musical growth like social media for example might bring. If things are looked at for what they are and the goal is clear, the objectives will be met at some point. It’s definitely a marathon and not a sprint towards success in whatever way one may want to define it for oneself.