Exercises I Wish I Did Sooner For Back Thickness & Strength (form & exercises)
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00:00 Rows for thickness? Not exactly.
00:52 The 3 areas to develop for THICKNESS
1:43 Developing traps/scapula density/form
3:30 Developing Lat thickness
5:54 Erectors (why deadlifts are better than rack pulls)
8:50 COOL COMING VIDEOS & MENTORSHIP!
Brendan@prime-strength.com
#bodybuilding #lifting #nutrition #powerbuilding #powerlifting #training #benchpress #training #hypertrophy #usapl #uspa #aesthetic #strength #science #mindset
Yup - L Sit Pull-ups have been fucking my back up in the best way possible every single session faithfully I like that you pointed out the spinal erectors running all the way up the back as well. A lot of the meta of bodybuilding right now is avoiding stimulating them at all costs - ass backwards imo since they make or break your back thickness
Dude yeahhhh, I’ve noticed that. Big erectors are the key actually, makes everything on top pop!
This is hands down the best video I've found about back thickness and I've been looking for sometime.
Dude thank you! I’m planning a huge surge in content coming soon so please sub and stay on the lookout! 🤙🏼
Awesome stuff love your vids!
Looking crazy man!
Nice to see some ring work!
I just started dabbling in Olympic lifting and holy smokes that will blow your back up! I've seen incredible gains in my back and rear shoulders in the space of 6 months or so.
Yeah Olympic lifts will inherently give you crazy trap development and lats! 100% lu and klokov are my back crushes in weight lifting
Great video mate! I've had lower back issues for years so I do a combination of reverse hypers and RDL's. Maybe one day I'll build the courage to do full on deadlift again!
Dude I promise you can! Even with herniations! It’s all in slow and steady loading with good deloads to create tissue tolerance.
@@BrendanTietz I defs need to make use of deloads more often. I might even try deadlifting every 10-14 days as another way to reduce fatigue and enhance recovery!
Chin ups in an L-seat leg configuration along with swimming about 1 mile close-fisted without kicking doing the "breaststroke created my back. Pull-downs, seated rows and bent-over barbell rows never seem to do anything for my back nor did they create a pump in my back. Sprinting the last 100-200 yards of my swim had my back pumped for over 30 minutes. The L-seat chin-ups and bent-legged twisting sit-ups on a decline board were responsible for my abs.They were the only ab exercises I did. It was those parts, abs and lats, that enabled me to win titles in bodybuilding competitions. Although not as effective as the swim itself, I created a lat exercise similar to doing the breaststroke using an incline bench, a cable machine and a roughly 5' cable rope attachment. The back of bench is angled at about 35º - 45ºangle with the cable pulley set high up. The back of the bench faces the pulley with your chest on the inclined part of the bench. The bench is set about 5' from the cable machine. In this setup, do a modified mimic of the arm motion of the breast stoke. I would do 4 sets of 30 reps with 90 lbs. I would superset that with 4 set of dumbbell flyes to act as a rest period between the cable lat exercise.
Good video! My main problem as a new coach besides learning marketing/sales is whether or not to niche down even just a little bit. I know I want to work with mostly 18-40 y/o who want weightloss, strength/hypertrophy. But I want my business to seriously stand out niche-wise and I know there’s pros and cons to that.
You can niche without limiting client pool. I do that! My videos are ultra specific yet I get people from all backgrounds! Be on the lookout for this course! My initial launch will be the one time I sell it with a discount and it’ll do you well. Even the areas you think you’ve got down I promise you’ll learn twice as much. I’ve hired 3 coaches in business all of which cost me over 100k and I’ve hired many lifting mentors! I learned soooo much however I adopted my own style from all of them and that’s what I plan to teach.
Switching to rows with one arm at a time and slowing the tempo wayy down was a game changer, it really allows such a better ROM. pair that with some deficit RDLs, some sort of pullup or pulldown and heavy ass farmer walks and you're golden!
Some food for thought: One arm rows help stretch lats more but take away from tensioned protraction. The spinal rotation is good for stretching the lats but not ideal for scapula. Likewise deficit RDLs simply just target the glutes too much compared to regular deads. The back is a passive isometric contractor so the added range does little for increasing back tension and since you limit quad involvement it limits overall load on the moment arm distribution to the back extensors/scapula/lats. Farmers walks are good for high traps but it’s not going to compare to heavy rows or deadlifts for the back density adaptation. Simply because deadlifts are just more load and more horizontal distributing tension beyond just high traps.
@@BrendanTietz Thanks for the lengthy reply dude! I see what you're saying about one arm rows, I do tend to get more of a lat pump than upper back. I got a lot of upper back development super-setting a heavy ass row with farmers walks to get the best of both worlds, so am in agreement you cant use them alone, but they're great as an adjunct! What do you think about a deficit RDL allowing the bar to drift out in-front of you to try and place more strain on the erectors and upper back?
@@BrendanTietz Thank you! Just skimming these comments and seeing all the, "RDL"s for back," comments are pissing me off. RDL is posterior chain movement. Who the hell told these people it's a back exercise?????? Deadlifting is a leg exercise. Not a back exercise.
@@hitleractually8180 well yea it is primarily a lower body lift, but it wrecks quite a bit of your back too... you've never had sore lats, traps or erectors from heavy RDLs?
Pulling with the back retract and flex back at the same time while pulling with the elbow. Then feel the stretch during protraction. It takes practice it really does
I love pull-ups. I think if you them from the beginning and never stop you don’t ever really become too heavy to keep them in. Built in progressive overload if you do them as you gain weight. Regarding the close chain statement. Does that mean you don’t believe bench press is good for building muscle and push-ups, if they could be loaded correctly, would theoretically be better?
100% agree with the first statement and for your question no! Bench press is king in this context however if push-ups were easily loadable in the long term then yes! They’re better. In fact I wish I could find a way to load them over 3 plates because 100% believe it would build more muscle and function!
2:55 So when you are protracting to the starting point, are you personally always disengaging the muscle to a full stretch? And also going way lighter in order to do that? For example, disengaging the lats for lat Pulldown. Also I do weighted pull-ups too, but I found progression to stall way quicker than lat pulldowns
On rows you aren’t disengaging anything by protracting, you’re simply engaged under a stretch. Pull-ups are slightly different because of how the lats function. Dead hang are good for strength and mobility but an ever so slightly less than dead hang is best for vertical rowing. But in rows this IS the function of the scapula including traps to protract and retract therefore it’s never disengaged
What do you think of ropeclimbs for this? (the hard variation ofcourse without using your feet) i have been putting them in my training recently and so far they feel insane on the whole body (and insanely hard to do but fun!) don't see many people talking about it tho.
So rope climbs are great for metabolic fatigue and functionality but won’t build much mass. While some guys who do them have jacked backs, a ton of guys who do them have skinny backs. It’s not causation but rather a few do them who happen to also do heavy rows etc. You can’t find someone with a 700 conventional who isn’t crazy dense! Deadlifts and rows for mass
I practiced pull ups for a long time, after I wasted time (years) and energy doing pull downs without any serious results. I mean it actually took years of practice to get to where I am now, doing pull ups for sets and reps with weight but it's worth it, my whole back is much much bigger than it ever was. Pull downs just didn't do anything for me even if I could do them with more weights or reps.
Yeah chin/pull-ups are the king man. Absolutely love them and had similar experiences.
Theres only 3 exercises i use for my back, rdl's, pull ups and rows, form on pull ups and rows may differ based if i want to focus width vs tchiness, besides these 3 exercise, i probably do some rear delt flies on the cables some times and that's all.
RDL's are a leg exercise. A great, "primary accessory" movement to pair with squats or even deadlifts.
Agreed! If deadlifts for whatever reason aren’t viable than snatch grip and RDL works as a close second but doesn’t compare to deads and rows/pull-ups
great info, and great examples of full range of motion
Thank you!!
Are trap bar deadlifts good for back too?
I'm 206 lbs 186 cms around 20% bf and I can do weighted neutral grip pull-ups with a 45 lb plate for 3x8. I can't do that with a pronated grip though. I can do around 3x10 pronated with a 25 lb plate. Can you recommend a strength standard for weighted pull-ups
That’s about where I was at when I weighed 208! Honestly strength standards are not possible, you’d need millions of data inputs and in the paraphrased words of Carl Jung: You can weigh a all the pebbles on a beach and estimate the average weight to be 203 grams but you might spend all day looking for an individual pebble that actually weighs 203 grams. Make your own standard!! With that said, you’re at least up to par with me! My best was one set of 90s lbs full rom dead hang for 6 reps weighing 212lbs
Onya Tietzy mate! 🇦🇺 👍
Litty titty Tietz
which row variation would you say is best specifically for upper back thickness? And best technique for this specific goal?
If I had to choose I’d do a hammer strength row with heavy ish weights but still go end range retraction. Pronated grip. Seated sable row in close second
Brendan, the Loose arms queue was hugely driven by Sean Noriega, he started his setup always talking about it and emphasising it. Then he did a technique vid with Johnny Cándido where they talked a it it for hook grip pullers. (Got a big view count) Doesn’t make it right either though agreed. I always feel weaker trying to cop those queues.
Yeah not a fan. Chance does it too. Reactive tension will naturally force rigidity anyway. Simple exercise science explains why that’s useless imo. I’d rather get proactively tight than reactively!
Got that Konstantine Janashia trap action going lol what the actual fuck dude
Dog what in the actual fuck… I just looked him up LMFAO wow that’s crazy. Even at his body fat they pop so much
would you say that barbell DL is superior to trap bar DL with regards to erector engagement and achieving the back growth you're speaking of in this video?
100%! Trap bar is highly overrated. Not bad by any means but tbh if I couldn’t use a barbell I’d hardly deadlift
@@BrendanTietz gotcha thanks for your insight.
How do you stand on Dumbell pullovers and Romanian deadlifts?
Pullovers have a really bad resistance profile but can add a lot of eccentric stress however when I think maximal thickness I don’t think pullovers. RDLs are primarily a hip exercise and not much for back other than isometric work where a regular deadlift would be far superior due to loading
Would the group coaching be good for me if I’m at a 245kg squat 180kg bench and a 230kg deadlift, will one of these programs get my numbers up or am I too advanced?
We’ve had guys with 300kg squats and even a 350kg deadlift! He competed at a meet and broke records! Although admittedly at your experience level 1 on 1 coaching is always superior! Just depends on what you want to invest in yourself. If you don’t make progress I’ll give your money back if you can show me it’s not from being dumb and overshooting or something life related lol
Thanks for reply Brendan, I am always curious to know what you think of mark Ripptoes tutorial on how to deadlift, is it any good and is it safe? He claims put the back into extension when pulling but I’ve heard others say it’s dangerous, I think you’ve mentioned it’s okay to do before too on a video
Extension isn’t dangerous but if you want to be strong flex the back! Specifically the mid upper back. Even low back is fine if you lock it in! I’ll make a video on this.
Congratulations on going towards your goals, Bro.... But on a more serious note, LoL- will you still be having/making your fusion program😢
100%!! I don’t plan on stopping until I’m well into my next chapter years from now and might not even stop then! I love powerlifting, it’s hard to completely leave.
What about the argument that rack pulls are less metabolically taxing so it's easier to do them with higher frequency than deadlifts, which depending on your goals and conditioning, you may not do more than say 1.5 times a week? You can probably add an extra rackpull session but not a deadlift session without reaching the point of diminished returns and wasted effort. Any merit to that?
I deadlift 2x per week year around at times. However in response to that exact question I’d still argue that even if you can’t it’s pointless because its more about long term adaptation on the deadlift. Strength goes up MUCH better never doing rack pulls lol. They’re probably the most overrated exercise tbh. They’re just useless imo unless you compete strongman
@@BrendanTietz "Strength goes up MUCH better never doing rack pulls lol." 'Westside Barbell has entered the chat.' Tell that to the 50+ lifters coming out of Westside with 700 lb deadlifts and they've produced over 20 lifters with 800+ lb deadlifts. They do rack pulls ALL THE TIME!!!! The rackpull is designed to take leg drive out of the movement, as well as bar flexation. This puts more emphasis on the lower back to strengthen it. And since most lifters can lift more weight with the shortened ROM, it allows you to also overload the movement and really hammer the posterior chain. I've seen massive gains to my conventional competition pull from doing rack pulls.
Westside is a meme in serious powerlifting these days. I respect Louie but he coached GEARED lifters aka the mechanics literally change because of physics. Rack pulls are useless and you’re talking to someone who deadlifted 760lbs at 215 bodyweight easy. Just because XYZ did it isn’t a good argument. Likewise no one and I mean literally no one at high level powerlifting now does rack pulls and they shattered Louie’s records while being raw… bob matthews? Ashton rouska? Russ Orhii? Taylor Atwood? These guys are natural and lifting bigger deadlifts than Louie’s west side guys did. Your argument is not only flawed but literally would actually prove my point. You realize you can look at records on open powerlifting and compare the old Louie records right?
What is your opinion on back extension and reverse hyper for spinal erector
Great for details but hard to add mass with them although it is possible! Just difficult to do truly heavy back extensions with good ROM
@@BrendanTietz I agree, in my opinion these exercises should be complimentary and do at high reps rather than go heavy
Bro why dint you do Instagram, or can i just not find your ig, i feel like you could be a big time content creator
Kai Greene still does pull-ups on a regular. Franco did too. Thick backs
I didn’t know Kai does! That’s sick!!
Ohmygod pls sign me tf up for the coaching mentorship program i want in
Absolutely love that you’re hyped for it! You were in our GC correct? Keep an eye out because I’ll be running some early specials on it as well to showcase what I can do! After the minimal viable product launch I’ll be increasing the rate substantially once it’s tested! Definitely keep an eye out!
Also I might contact you if you’re interested to get input on what you’d like to see. Designing the curriculum so far I have over 6 months worth of learning and adding more lol but I’m making it very digestible and easy to understand all fitting within a flow from mechanics to programming to meet coaching to mindset training! So excited!!
Noti gang gang 🔔
🤙🏼🫡
Most people i know focus on chest or arms you know them tee shirt muscles but for me my back is probably the pride of my physique... ime width was easy but when i got that back thickness it took me to a whole new level of asthetics 😏
Ohhh yeahhh back is where it’s at 🤙🏼
no shrugs? BB, DB, Smith Machine, etc.?
None, not a single shrug
@@BrendanTietz fair enough lol I still like doing them
Nothing wrong with them at all! Just don’t think they’re needed or “optimal” but I’m a big believer in doing what you like because that does breed results
My next bulk is going to be dedicated to getting my back thiccccc af im going to 🚣🏾 my ass off
My whole first 5 years of lifting I went soooo hard on back and it was so worth it
@@BrendanTietz I focused primarily on pull-ups i got pretty wide but lack some of that density n the mid trap
People will find any reason to avoid pull ups. Weighted Pull ups have done far more for my back than any "optimal" lat pull down variation.
When I think hard training I never picture lat pulldowns unless they’re IFBB pro using the whole stack with good ROM lol most cases it just doesn’t work as well!
Brendan! I got charged twice on group coaching, sent you an email on 15 June 2023, could you please help out thanks!
Yo email me again, I don’t see an email but possible I missed it! I’ll take care of you!
5:31
Can you do a video on what you eat for a day for your workouts. Hector
Yes I can!! I’ll film this soon!
The ‘loose arms’ cue for the deadlift came from ‘long arms’ originally as a way to have people ‘feel’ scapula protraction - sort of like telling someone to reach forwards with arms out in front. Agree that it’s not helpful and probably leads to aborted jerks more than anything.
too much thickness over too much width anyday .
Yes.
so big your shirts ripped
I know 😔 I don’t own anymore shirts without holes smh
@@BrendanTietzIf a shirt has no holes it's a bag
Show sumo some love ok
Oh dude I’m super supportive of women and gays who pull sumo bro don’t worry!
@@BrendanTietz Im switching
Shiiit me too tbh
We take you more seriously with the beard 😅
🧔🏽♂️🥇