High RPM vs Low RPM (Same Power) - Which One Is Faster? BeamNG. Drive
2023 ж. 17 Нау.
250 452 Рет қаралды
How much does rpm matter if peak power is the same?
Enjoy!
#beamng #rpm #forgottenmustard #supercars #hypercars #comparison #highrpm #lowrpm #experiment #beamngdrive #horsepower #v8 #v10
Its always hard to compare a NA Engine to a Turbo or Supercharged Engine because the NA always lacks the Low End Power. I think the Boost takes the Lead here. More Torque, thats all. Would be fun to boost the V10 to the same Amount of Torque. Then it will smash the V8 everywhere. Or, for a better Comparison between those two, Cut the Gearing so they both have the same Speed when hitting the Rev Limiter at the same Gear. Then the higher Revs will be of Use.
each cylinder on the v8 is bigger than one off of the v10, so even if it was na it would still have it beat in torque
@@jakesnakemate2929 Thats right, thats why you would have to shorten the gear ratio of the V10 to really even them out. The Engine Torque and RPM ard Converted in the Gearbox. If you take half of the RPM with the gear Ratio the Driveshaft Torque doubles. Easy example: if you convert 100Nm at 100RPM with a ratio of 2:1 the driveshaft will spin at 50RPM but with 200Nm.
There are some big blocks that would disagree with na always lacks low end power 😋
It’s a small high revving v10, it doesn’t have much low end. Compared to a larger v8, even NA gives much better low end torque, from the displacement and engine design of making power down lower since it can’t rev to 9500 rpm. At 5500 rpm making 950 hp means that car is making close to that in torque as well, which is the major difference. The v10 had very short gearing in this, but it still didn’t have enough torque to keep up.
More average power is what does it, not a higher torque number.
The shape of the power curve mattered a lot more in this test than anything. V10 makes power linearly while the V8 peaks early and holds power till redline. Make both power curves linear and both results should be near identical.
If you look at where the engines are after shifting, the V10 is well over 100hp off of peak power after a shift. The V8 is within 40 hp of peak the whole time. No wonder it's faster; more power under the curve.
torque is the true magic number. less rpm = more torque, considering HP=torque x rpm/5252
@@lunarazoris41 But if the V10 were making that V8’s torque 1500 below it’s rev limiter, do you think the V10 would accelerate just as fast as the V8?
@@shoryuag yeah, without a doubt. same torque numbers is gonna mean same acceleration, but the gearing and extra rev range might help out if they have the same peak torque
@@lunarazoris41 Please, look up and see how much power 850lbft or torque gets you at 4500rpm and how much it gets you at 8500rpm. Are you saying those two power numbers will accelerate the same weight at the same rate because the torque number is the same?
Literally a calculus question- just check the area under the curve between two points and you'll know which one pulls more. They may make the same power at a certain RPM, but not throughout their rev range.
Not to mention much more torque on the V8 which is normal usually comparing a cross-plane engine to a flat-plane. Flat has higher hp but a lot less torque generally
@@stephenmartin5766 the stroke of the engine is the biggest factor when it comes to power and torque ratios (its also the biggest factor with rpm) and not the plane of the engine. the longer the stroke = more torque but low rpm, the shorter the stroke = less torque but high rpm. a long stroke with high rpm is optimal but our mate rodney aint up to the task
Yeah, except not everyone got to learn the Graphics Calculator at school. You needed to be _good_ at maths.
@@bjorn1583 yup, that’s why I said generally because most if not all flat plane engines are short stroke high rpm engines that produce a lot of hp but not much torque compared to hp.
@@bjorn1583 The best way to put it!
I don't care which is faster I would rather listen to that V10 all day long !
I wouldn't. I prefer the V8 sound over the V10. Sort of like, I prefer Ford GT V8 over Huracan V10
@@egg0534 That's legit . I just got hooked after hearting the Carrera GT10 and Lexus LFA. Such a beautiful sound !
@@atomicforcegaming2867 Yes, both are great sounding cars
Much better than a boring, old fashioned electric motor lol
That's exactly what I was about to write. Jeez
Every time the NA shifts to the next gear, the power drops to around 600hp. As for the supercharged V8, the power drops to around 700hp. This is what makes the difference.
Exactly. Glad other people see this, too.
Thats torque vs rpm for you. They could’ve had torque ramp up towards peak power for the V8 and the outcome would’ve been more similar. Or had the V10 make more torque before peak power. Either or, that was the main deciding factor aside from gearing
@@PapiAndrey What you’re talking about is just changing the shape of the power curve. Gear width was the deciding factor. With closer gearing, the V10 would’ve kept up, if its average power in each gear was the same.
@@shoryuag That is exactly what im talking about. The torque curve and gearing decided this race.
@@PapiAndrey What exactly about the torque curve specifically decided it?
In those racing sims I learnt, the same car with different engine providers, higher revs can give you a smoother power output which will be really nice going in and out of the corners, but lower rev engine with the same power is usually faster on straights and the car really wants to go wild coming out of the corners, can't really say which one's better, stability in races or pure power.
Low revving engines have more torque (power = torque x rpm) so that’s probably why it’s more squirmy out of corners
You can drive any car with stability, just some are easier to do so with.
That's why the new formula one cars are so snappy
Stability should come of the chassis when racing. Power is what engine is for so boosted V8 is better at racing.
@@nodo7575 what he meant is that on high rev engine the power output is a lot smoother and more responsive than constantly shifting all the time because without shifting you always have the engine transferring power all the time and not shifting so you have better control of the car and you know what to expect
The v10 needs better gearing to match the V8 at speeds as the 8 taps into more HP at lower RPM( a word salad way of saying V8 is more torquey) You can see at 62mph, the v8 while at lower RPM are rolling on much more HP vs the V10 - 248hp vs 122hp, that should explain the performance. The KEY POINT is, 2 vehicle at the same HP/weight always have the potential to match up in speed and acceleration. Fantastic comparison.
Yup, average power throughout the acceleration is what wins races, not peak power.
I think same Wheel torque is important
Yeah the n/a car was way too peaky
forced induction vs n/a will always be like this, at the same peak power forced induction will always have a flatter power band
@@houseking9211 i see you know nothong about cars lol
Think about it this way, if you have the same gearing and power at different rpm’s, the higher revving engine will have a faster top speed because the engine is literally spinning faster in turn making everything else faster, it’s about how well it can maintain that
This video was awesome just like all your other videos, thank you!
A video trying those cars but in different sets of same gear ratios would be very interesting!!!
It's all about power band and gearing.
lower reving engine hold its peak power for a little longer. maybe thats the reason for the little better performance.
A high revving engine would hit higher speeds more easily due to how fast it can spool up the drivetrain. Meanwhile, a low revving engine would have to work harder to reach those kinds of speeds.
cos you setup low rev version wider peak thats why it is faster 🤷🏻♂️ it use more avg power for acceleration 🌪 …. torque diffrenc at engine crank have no impact on results as well as rpm level both are orrelevant factor what only matter is avg power 🌪👌🏻
All you need to look at is the total area under the power curve between peak torque and max revs, assuming that the gearing is properly matched to the power curve in each car. The one with most area under the curve will be fastest. (Unless one requires an insane number of gear changes and it's a manual gearbox!)
HP=TQ*RPM/5252 -For any engine to make the same amount of power at a lower RPM than another engine at higher RPM it has to make more torque at a lower RPM - that's the function of the calculation of horsepower. However what you'd be able to do is gear each of them so that the wheel torque consistent.
Test diesel vs petrol at same power :) also, you should do 60mph mpg test on both cars in 7th, V8 was in 5th, while V10 was in 7th...
Where did u get the speeds timer? I can’t find it in the game only the one that does 0-100km:h
Hi, what programme is this? Can you run a few tunes on the lotus emira with the 3.5L supercharge v6 engine? Increase hp/torque redline etc?
It's all about torque band and gearing ratios, torque it's the only force who's spinning car wheels, the engine power it's just equation. That V10 has less torque but can use better leverage of shorter gear ratios because it has higher rpm limit so ultimately it can match torque output to wheels compared to another engine who has higher torque but can't spin as fast. Keep in mind that engine has best acceleration near the point where torque is highest, not the power, and that torque band determines acceleration of the car when certain gear is applied.
The work being done is HP, in the end that's all that matters. Torque is a static force. Think of it like putting a wrench on a nut. Imagine it's very stuck. You put more and more force (torque) on it, but it doesn't matter until it spins. When it starts spinning, you are performing work, which requires power, which in cars is expressed as HP (or more sanely in KW) HP is just a function of torque over RPM. The thing here is that while they might have the same peak HP figure, the v10 makes it up top, and it just spends very little time there. The gearing is not optimized for the delivery. The V8 doesn't need to spin as fast to make the same power, and it spends more of it's time in the power band. Area under the curve is what matters.
🤣🤮
@@detaart You are saying the things! Nice! I'm glad people are in here that understand.
Talks about torque band and mechanical advantage at the same time. What a mess, check what power is beyond "it's just equation". That equation moves your car 😂
The feeling of increasing acceleration is best as the torque number increases, then flattens out. That’s because the horsepower increase is growing so fast; if the horsepower flattens out around it’s peak, that’s where you have best acceleration, if wind resistance isn’t a factor yet. Think about it; why does every air restricted race series have race teams trying to broaden and flatten their power curves? There’s a video here on KZhead with a guy talking about the lengths NISMO went to in order to a very competitive V8 in Super GT back like 10-15 years ago.The engines are air restricted to around 500hp. So, NISMO made an engine that made 800hp at 8500 rpm and that idled at something like 4000 rpm. Why? So with a restrictor, it’d make 500 hp for as long as possible. The key part here is they were worried about the power curve, not torque. That’s the pattern, because the power is what gives you the acceleration.
Hi whats the name of the ui timer app you used
An other nice video , and in the topic '' same horse power '' , why not to compare a tiny N.A. gasoline engine , an electric motor , and a turbocharged Diesel engine with a huge displacement ?
You could do a car with a flat torque band and a flat power band Bota will have the same total power but the one with the flat power band will be way faster
electric motor vs inverted electric motor
Flat torque OK, flat power impossible. Not in a combustion engine anyway.
@@EddieOtool wrong maybe not entore rpm range from idlle to rpm limiter but let say from half to high rpm 100% posible and in regard to diffrenc in gear lenght for typical gerbox setup easy posible 👌🏻
@@mociczyczki Show me a working example then.
@@EddieOtool thers couple go found yourself feg mondeo mk4 1,8 tdci 100 hp almost flat power from 2 to 4 k rpm 🫣🤷🏻♂️ ninja 400 have almost flat power from 9to 12 k rpm 🤷🏻♂️ asf
Which software is that?
This video describes the difference between the engine options in the corvette C8, the high revving 5.5 V8 And the older 6.2 V8 which was carried from the previous generations of the corvette.
Remember this is supercharger.
@@FEGTTTSDH So was C7 Z06.
I was gonna say it depends which one revs faster tbh, because climbing the peak power curve and maintaining it between gears makes a difference, and then you have an NA V10 that has much more work to do to stay in that band vs a supercharged V8 Dunno really
The Extra Torque seems to have helped significantly when having to push through the wind resistance at higher speed. The 100 too 200 mph acceleration test was very interesting. Otherwise they where very evenly matched, performance wise! Nice...
No that's not torque
@@IgorArkinit is torque though - identical power at a lower rpm means more torque at that rpm.
@@383mazda I don't argue that
The one with more area under the hp curve will be faster
yeah, peak hp defines top speed - 90 percentile top horsepower defines top acceleration
@@retko8718nope acceleration defines power shape in rpm range which is use for max acceleration what depend on gearing it can be 100% excluding shifting itself or 50 % or whatever how much depend on gearing and power shape setup …
This confirms what I've always suspected. If both engines start from idle, the performance gap for acceleration is even wider. When passing or shifting, the lower revving engine gets to peak power first. It takes more time to rev to 8k than to 4k.
that why people love the simple pushrod v8, even a low revving example like that one will create a very flat power curve at the top end of its rev range so even with tall gears or shifting more often it will be putting similar power down when it shifts instead of loosing a lot of power when it shifts. an N/A v8 makes a very similar power curve to the supercharged one, not quite as flat but there is a reason people love the simple v8 design. Plus if you want to build a v8 you can make it rev to almost 9k rpm and at those revs and with a characteristics of 2 valve per cylinder the power is almost completely flat making a high revving v8s unbeatable.
Cool comparison
the integrated power at crank over distance is slightly higher for the purple car, that is why it is slightly faster while the torque difference is huge so acceleration is not proportional to crank torque
The NA drops much more in power aftershave every gearshift, to somwhere in the 600hp range, while the supercharged engine always stays above 700hp. Torque has nothing to do with it
Egzacly 😎👍🏻
in short, it's about the power curve
Well sorry but torque has everything to do with it. You can't make usable power without torque in a car. In short the reason why the supercharged engine drops less power is because it has way more low rpm torque thus being able to make more power at low rpms.
@@piimii55 for daily driving more torque down low is more important than more power at tope end agree with this but racing or drag racing is diffrent stuff 😉 you cant win drag race in the same car except engine let 100 hp 4000 rpm 300 nm 1500 rpm vs feg 150 hp 6000 rpm 200 nm 4000 rpm assuming both have optimal gearing its imposibble 👌🏻 even if 1 version as daily be most people choice👍🏻
you compared boosted vs all motor, and also had the gearing very spread their own way which should be a video on its own...
Power band plus the gearing on the V8 is slightly better
I just love that screaming V10. Amen to that!
Look at the shapes of the HP curves. Watch the cars run through the gears. One car stays at higher average output than the other.
Now I'll consider making low-rpm machines as an Automation player for racing competitions
For the lower revving car to make the same power, it must have more torque, which was borne out in the acceleration tests
how do you make huge turbos and put them on cars?
this is more of a question of gearing and tuning truthfully
How about you make them both the same engine but different characteristics (long stroke small bore vs small stroke long bore) if that’s possible
As a fan of V8's and superchargers I would take the red one.
Someone is colorblind.
@@RE-nv4we ok it's pink, does it matter?
@@technicbuilder6410 Scientifically speaking, it can be the difference between life and nuclear explosion, so yes colors do matter.
@@RE-nv4we but I wasn't talking about nuclear explosion, I was talking about what car I like more. So no, in this case it doesn't matter.
@@technicbuilder6410 And the car you liked more wasn't in the video since there was no red car.
Anyway, that V10 sound is wonderful
You can clearly see that the maximum power range on the V8 is wider and its average is close to pic power. Plus the gearbox is more optimized, because is uses almost 100% of this range. This is why on the long end, the V8 pulled a big advantage.
high revving engine is very suitable for race but exhausting, while the low/mid revving engine is perfect for daily ride.. Been riding both of them, loves the speeding with high-revs but still gonna stick to low/mid revving engine, especially with abundant torque at low rpms. 👍
Why in 5th gear on the v8 car for mpg test when it has 7?
And yet a boosted kei car with an h pattern an obnoxiously loud blow off valve or waste gate or flutter/whine is probably funner to drive.
I think that you should attach a table at the end which will be comparing all scores
This reminds me of the forgotten Jaguar XJ220. In the late 1980s, when Jaguar announced their new supercar, everybody was so excited that the waiting list grew faster than a California wildfire. But when the XJ220 finally made it into production in 1992, it was a massive disappointment for many reasons. One of them is that Jaguar cut costs by swapping the original V12 for a twin-turbo V6, which was not powerful enough to move the car past the 220 mph mark (that's why it was called the XJ"220" in the first place). To be fair, other factors were at play, like weight, aerodynamics, and wheelbase. However, many blamed the smaller engine instead because the "no replacement for displacement" philosophy was still in vogue by the early 1990s, when cars with naturally aspirated engines dominated the scene. Had the XJ220 come out today, things might have been different.
That test must be done with the same engines
I would like to consider power in meaning of driveability. But what with gearbox spacing or diff ratio?
Increíble, no esperaba esos resultados
Otras personas en los comentarios dicen que se debe a las relaciones de transmisión y que el V8 tiene más potencia que el V10. Cuando el V10 cambia a la siguiente marcha, tiene 600 hp. Cuando el V8 cambia a la siguiente marcha, tiene 700 hp.
Which is the name of this software or "games"?
Everyone is mentioning the curves, NA vs forced induction which is the biggest factor, but what about gear ratios, weight differences, traction, and shift times… etc. I didn’t pause to check in depth so maybe it all works out to be the same.
No matter what its torque, or torque over time (hp). Area under the curve. More Average power over the run that makes it to the ground wins.
Real question, under pretty hard driving and racing, which one do you guys think would be more reliable/ last longer being able to do so. I would think the v10 but really hard to say
Low reving engines are generally more reliable. But so are N/As.
But do they weigh the same? That's the question really
this is the kind of video i like, interesting shit
Yes that v8 power, sounds like a muscle car
Just a heads up the v8 was only in 5th gear doing the fuel efficiency test at 60mph
This is an interesting question but I think you made a mistake. You used the same diff ratio for both (3.02:1). Try this again but give the car reving to 9500 a diff ratio of 5.21 so basically they need to go at the same road speed at the 5500 and 9500 rpm respectively. What you should find is that the performance will be the same as power is power.
Look at 0:32, the high revver has 5.5 diff.
Higher torque chances the size and/or number of gears you need to carry to reach the same speed, did you factor that in?
Idea: 1.6NA 4 cylinder vs 1.2turbo 3 cylinder
Why the 62 's consumption test, aspirated in 7th gear and charged on 5th?????
Wait! I don't understand how a high reving is more fuel efficient at highway speed. Shouldn't an engine spinning at 7k rpm consume more fuel than an engine spinning at 5k rpm, or is it such that a low reving engine burns more fuel per rev?
depends on gearbox??
Same power at lower rpm will always be quicker. But notice 1 thing tho...any boosted car (turbo or supercharged), takes some time to generate boost. If you notice, the N/A v10 has wheel spin in all the take off tests...I'd like to see the same tests with the N/A car on launch control without wheel spin. I think the results would be different. Now mind you, both cars had wheel spin, but u can clearly see the v10 slipped off the line more
and high rev NA engine got to take time for rev to "working" RPM.for charger-no time need to generate boost becouse comperssor pulls from the crank and got linear curve.
I would have picked the results just since the low revving car *should* be able to reach its peak power band sooner, buuuuut, that's really quite subjective to the engine, the tune etc
The engine torque does not matter but torque at the wheel. A higher reving engine has a different higher gearing which multiplies the torque more than a low reving engine. If you have two engines with the same power curve but one is reving double as high, you would end up with the same torque at the wheel because of gearing (if matched correctly). therefore torque is irrelevant for comparrision. The lower reving engine only wins because the power curve favors the car and the gearing is also not perfect for the na engine. Peak power is just a number but the used rev range with its power curve is really important and this is where the two engines are different.
high rpm vs low rpm doesn't matter and neither does torque. it's only how wide the powerband is relative to the peak rpm (percentage not absolute rpm). also how close are the gear ratios and how quick the gear changes
If you look at the horsepower curves, you can see that the V8 spends more time making more power, which is why it's faster. The V10 is making less horsepower after a shift than the V8 is. Average horsepower is how you win races.
Yes, lower revs with same power output tells it has more torque
For me the reliability and smooth power delivery of the NA makes it the better driving car
Why is the V10 more fuel efficient?
The text are too small After end of race, please add a page for results
This is even better on a circuit, since you need much torque on a low rpm after a corner to regain the speed. Or your car would just die at much lower gears...
Used to be true in 60s with 3-speed gearboxes. Nobody drives a car during the race at low revs.
Take the boost off if you want it to be apples to apples. A smaller boosted V10 would absolutely dust an NA V8
There would be an obvious weight difference between a boosted and na car though
Engineering explained has to explain this
U can do a low rpm v10 too js saying
4:07
Yeah the V8 being SC instead of just a much larger displacement with a lazy cam is the problem here. Make an N/A V8 with equal HP at 5500 and redo the test for optimum accuracy.
Without seeing the result ill say pink wins cause the area of high hp seems to be broader on the curve, lets see and edit after-> Edit: Its lottery time bois
So can there be a negative fuel consumption at 100mph? Like if it was using gallons per mile, what would that engine be like?
No, it's impossible.
For the mpg, at 62mph, for the supercharged car you had it in 5th gear. Whereas you had the blue car in 7th gear.
i want to see if this car can make the same hp but with 3k rpm
I like the v8 sound more so I would prefer that
Of course, the pink one is faster - it just has more torque. But thanks for the test, sometimes even the obvious things need to be checked. In real life, it would be slower, since it would also be heavier. More torque - bigger engine, bigger engine - more mass.
You don't need a big engine to make a lot of torque. Gm TPI, and small Volkswagen diesel engines make a lot of torque. For their size.
V8 sound better to me 🙂
Petrol vs diesel next 👋🏼
if you put a higher diff relation on the v10 u will see a large improvement
things in life... work better within a certain range. thats all im going to say
In order to find hp you take the torque and rpm and run them through an equation. Ultimately the question posed here is pointless as you need more torque low end to make the same hp as a car with higher rpm.
I've been experimenting with top speed. I've found I get a higher top speed with lower boost on the v 10
The car with the highest average hp obviously won. You can tell the results by simply looking at the power curves.
The v8 in this video essentially has a higher peak hp. It is reaching its peak horsepower faster, meaning its theoretical horsepower at the same rev limit as the v10 is actually much higher. Think about if the v10 were to hit the same horsepower figure at the same rev limit. You can't really compare high revving NA to low-revving boosted if they are making the same peak horsepower.
The problem with doing this in beam ng is it’s too realistic and your results would probably be better if you could fix a straight line as the power curves
Theoretically it would perform exactly the same, provided it has the same powerband and all that
Not true. H̶o̶r̶s̶e̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶a̶l̶c̶u̶l̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶r̶q̶u̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶r̶u̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶s̶u̶r̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶. The fact that the V8's horsepower peaked at a much lower RPM compared to the V10 is why the V8 powered car is faster, because the torque in the V8 at the peak was significantly higher than the V10. If you put these two cars with these two engines in a race, the V8 is going to win every time because of that, and it shows in the video.
@@ceeinfiniti1389 😂 Power = force x speed Torque= force x radius But power is "calculation", and torque is a "true measurement". Where are you all coming from?
@@IgorArkin As I was informed in another thread I got this wrong. I was thinking strictly within the horsepower calculation from torque and RPM. Horsepower is indeed a measurement as well.
@@ceeinfiniti1389 good. Anyway even if we think of power as torque x rpm, it can not be like torque is for acceleration and rpm (or some say even power) is for speed. Dodge Viper has higher top speed with its 7000 something redline versus sport bike with its 18000. For top speed multiplication of both is needed (power), because top speed is an extra acceleration from a given high speed. Same stands for acceleration: it happens from a certain speed so if we don't want to lower the speed we are accelerating from (and we can do this infinitely with the help of mechanical advantage of gearing) we need more torque x rpm.
V10 lost because of the shape of the power band. It wasn't at peak torque until it was time to shift, but the V8 started each gear at peak torque.
Close. Watch the power numbers after the shift. The difference there is where the V10 lost. With more, closer gears, it would have kept up.
Why talking about peak torque and shifting?