Men Bet Their Lives on It -- Packard Merlin Engines
Rolls-Royce developed the legendary Merlin engine that held land, aviation and water speed records. It was unmatched but the Rolls factories were threatened during WWII and the company needed a partner in a safe country that could produce the engines as well. They also had to be able to produce them up to Rolls-Royce standards. Packard was the one.
Packard built Merlin engines for the Lancaster bombers, P-51 Mutangs and other airplanes during WWII in its Detroit Factory with American workers who served on the home front by transforming the auto factories into the Arsenal of Democracy. Many credit the industrial might of this country with winning the War.
These engines won the Battle of Britain and took the fight far into Germany. Other Packard engines were enlisted to power PT Boats.
For More information: www.pt-boat.com/
And: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_...
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My grandfather was a Packard aircraft engineer during the War. He went to England and flew missions with the crews to endure that the engines were good.
Its enough to make you cry when you think of how fantastic Detroit was compared to the surreal nightmare it became and is.
Its tragic that places like Detroit used to be the king industrial icons of the entire world. Until the pro gressive one world government reduced us down to size. If we could only get back to the best again. 5 terms of Trump and a cooperative Congress would get us there.
Woodrow Wilson gave us the Fed Reserve and the Central Bankers of Debt...... The progressives became the useful stooges of the Rothschilds and Rockefellers. The pendulum swings to a maximum and that movement stops momentarily, then REVERSES. Enjoy the show. Popcorn. WWG1WGA.
@@carlatamanczyk3891 The USA cannot take but one term of trump and he does not have the support of congress !!!! He is an embarassment to the country and the world !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 thats your blind assessment. Leave the cool aid alone, put your hatred away for a minute, open your mind, and research out the truth.
@@carlatamanczyk3891 It is what I see and hear !!!! He is the worst President this country has ever had !!! 3 years in and he has done NOTHING but make an ass of himself and stirred the pot world wide. He is an embarassment to the country and the world !!! All he has done is fire people and hire more and fire them !!! NO wonder he has gotten NOTHING done except mess up the stock market !!!!
I have forwarded this to my son who now works in the auto industry as an engineer. I told him his grandpa worked in the Packard plants before and after the war. I am a retired engineer, 20 years at Ford and 15 at TRW.
Amazed at how advanced & thorough they were ensuring the engines were shipped out with confidence
Note how the announcer speaks. That speaking technique used to be used on radio and TV programs at least until the late 1950s.
...and that was pretty much the only places people spoke like that. Actual people spoke much like (or exactly) the way we do today...even used most of the same "swear" words we do, lol.
History is our teacher and these old film reels are the lessons that should never be forgotten. Thanks!
Good comment.
For all of those embroiled in the Merlin discussions I thought you might want to have a look at the other Merlin related films we've posted. Rolls-Royce Merlin Engine
Outstanding video! Thank you for posting these on youtube! Ted
Thank you for posting that.
I've been inside the Detroit Packard plant several times, seeing this makes me cry at what it has become.
Nothing left to do but learn a lesson from it's shell. Don't let democrats take over your city and let a bunch of non-whites move in.
Corporate malfeasance by Studebaker is the whole reason for this urban ruin.
If Packard was in good shape they would not sell to or merge with Studebaker.. Studebaker is still going strong AM-General .. Packard and Studebaker just could not compete with GM Ford and Chrysler .. Only Ford did not take a bail out .. Plus the Japanese cars and car builders are going strong ..
My pops worked at Packard during the war. Still have his corporate ID. Tool and die shop made me a set of mahogany blocks when I was born. I have my dad’s 10 year watch, a Gold Bullova with the phrase “ask the man that owns one”.
Today, we don't understand the sheer talent, craft and skill of people who can turn raw metal into exquisite machines. To mass produce at those levels and quality, yet more ingenuity. The quiet understatement '2000 left-hand British blue-prints had to be converted" says it all. Thank you.
@@decibel_tastic2869 WE, do. It has been recognized by technical executive levels within OEM’s and Tier 1’s. The people at the money making end pay no attention. The fomoco family has put a man in charge that has a mission to increase the value of a stock symbol “F”, which has been stagnant for 10 years even with phenomenal sales of the F series, and the crazy fair Mustang. That is a “2 trick pony”. Fomoco is also paying for the sins of the father and his grandson “the Deuce” who hated Wall and NY bankers. Now the has nocahonies, so in comes an a proven and obedient “follower of orders”. The quotes that sunk the ship for me were: 1. I CAN BUILD ELECTRIC VEHICLES WITH 40% LESS LABOR, there by throwing 40% of his hourly work force under the bus. 2. HOW DO YOU FEEL IF MR FORD WERE TO COME BACK TODAY AND SEE THE NEW STRATEGY? I THINK HE WOULD BE QUITE PLEASED. I don’t. The old man liked fisticuffs once in a while. I think he’d ask “who told you to throw 40% of your work force out the door? I’ll deal with them later. They WERE potential customers you idiot! BAM!
Look closely at the videos of the wartime especially aircraft plants. I saw some people who look like they were pushing 80 years old. And that's a compliment. Thank you for your service. It shows that it is possible for everybody to pull the same way and get along and know how blessed you are to live here.
They possibly were. In a old film on development of the Merlin and Allison aircraft engines in England all people men and women were exempt from conscription. In Germany and USA they were not and the only superior engine the US produced was the Packard-Merlin which was supposedly more reliable than the British build. USA had better access to casting, stamping, raw materials tool and die makers. Tool and die makers were the only US EXEMPT from the draft men. My father was a production supervisor at Packard during WW2 putting together the Packard Merlin engines and the old Packard V12s which were still used in some early PT boats. He was 25, married with a one year old child in 1943 and got drafted. The war in Europe was just about over the A bomb was less than a year away. He almost got shipped to Nuremberg because he spoke and could write Eastern European languages. He was born in the US but learned Ukrainian from his parents and Russians, Polish and Lithuanian from the kids in school and on the block. The kids would read newspapers from the foreign countries. Can you see that happening today? Not unless it was a video game. Take a hint, Bill Gates, you dunder head, you too Warren Buffet. It basically your country, you own it, now fix it, you got OUR money!
@@yelyab1 They don’t own it. We, the people, own it. If we had not been so lazy and dumb it wouldn’t be broken.
Historic British design. Maybe the greatest engine ever? Surely the most important!
nah,the Ford V-8 for the masses.
You can't compare a consumer item - even a very successful one - to a machine that was instrumental in saving the world!
+Ray Hansen _"nah,the Ford V-8 for the masses."_ Maybe the masses in the USA, but not outside. You will find that belongs to the BMC A series, which was also made under licence in Japan.
@@johnburns4017 Polish TKS tankette was powered by a Ford V-8. It was popular outside USA, tho masses outside USA couldnt afford it nor even supply it with fuel.
@@Paciat It was only used because it was big and made in Ford plants in Europe.
Great bit of cooperation between Britain and America. I guess this sharing of technology won the war. Great partnership.
What won WWII was British ingenuity, American manufacturing might and Russian blood.
@@PenzancePete Rolls Royce manufactured twice as many Merlins in the UK as Packard did V-1650s in the US.
Thanks for posting, excellent.
This brings a tear to my eye.
I was a flight engineer (aircrew) in the RAF in my youth (I am now in my 80s) and worked with both RR and Packard Merlins.....and if the truth was known, when it came down to it. ...there was no real difference between the 2, and anyone who says otherwise is out with the fairies.
Can't believe how many silly little skew gears and little drive shafts in em did these give trouble I wonder
Gary Peatling There were some early problems with the skew gear to the ignition distributor. When suddenly opening the throttle the engine would sometimes die. They found the skew gear drive had stripped it's teeth. It turned out that the sudden throttle opening had caused the crankshaft to move longitudinally thus mis aligning the skew gear drive to the distributor. The solution was to strengthen a crankcase bulkhead which had flexed due to the longitudinal thrust from the crankshaft. Problem solved. Detailed in Alex Henshaw's book "Sigh for a Merlin"
@@Coltnz1 That what is called poor engineering. Good engineering gets it right the first time.
crosstimbers2 Oh dear! What a silly remark.
@@Coltnz1 he's a anti British troll.
Thanks King Rose. Very informative doco. Good to see historic film being loaded onto KZhead d'-)
Thank you for commenting and watching.
Great history lessons!
Great videos King Rose!!
I loved watching the hydroplane races with the big V12 engines RR and Allison. Then they went to jets.
I was standing in the water on Mission Bay in San Diego in late '80s watching the big Thunderboats go by. Big V-12s and T55 turbines. Wow, those are something else. Love 'em. Kudos to Packard, Rolls Royce, Lycoming, and Thunderboaters.
Great, thanks for posting
Thanks to all for your comments and for adding to our general understanding. I know it's possible to become quite passionate about these questions but please, let's keep it civil.
Englishmen can't stand ANYTHING American except the dollar.
+Ray Hansen No most of us love America and Americans. Its the smug overly patriotic morons who rubbish everything about the UK and tell the world how they won the war we can't stand. Yourself included ... Join Wilbursoaringtractorfinnigan as prat of the week.
There's a lot to be said for Canadian bacon, though. Some beer is better cold, other kinds better warmer. I'd take either a Rainier or a Guiness right now, thank you.
The average American is alright...It's the Ideal American that is all wrong.
I think that , as refigerators didn't exist when real beer was made, it was never meant to be cold.
Thanks for adding to our understanding. I'll try and post some more Merlin material in the coming months. I have an interview with the curator of the museum in the UK. Haven't been putting up any interviews but might be worthwhile if people are interested in seeing the raw material and getting a deep background in different subjects.
One of my favorite sounds is the Packard RR Merlin P-51's flying over my house. If only they kept more around.
"The initial Packard modifications were done on this engine by changing the main bearings from a copper lead alloy to a silver lead combination and featured indium plating. This had been developed by General Motors' Pontiac Division to prevent corrosion which was possible with lubricating oils that were used at that time. The bearing coating also improved break-in and load carrying ability of the surface. British engineering staff assigned to Packard were astonished at the suggestion but after tear down inspections on rigidly tested engines were convinced the new design offered a decided improvement." Packard Merlin Aircraft Engine - Combat Air Museum on line
And all those changes had to be cleared by RR before implimentation.
@@theoracle6639 And almost all of those changes were adopted by RR. Lord Beaverbrook "The Packhard Rolls-Royce engine is an example to the whole world." below 809 Hansard FLEET AIR ARM. HL Deb 27 January 1943 vol 125 cc794-829
@@theoracle6639 "Rolls Royce had been aware of the Bendix-Stromberg Pressure type of carburettor for several years and versions of the carburettor were used on many American engines including the Allison V-1710. Notably, Packard built their Merlins in the USA with a version of the Bendix PD16 from the very start of Packard Merlin production." ROLLS-ROYCE MERLIN CARBURETTOR DEVELOPMENT page
BS the first thing Packard had to change was to cast the head and block seperate, the RR version head and block were one piece and it took a special machine to machine the valve seats deep through the block to the heaad and by casting them seperate like other engines were built Packard could use existing machinery to machine the valve seats, and Packard changed other block parts and reduced the parts count by 13 and RR had sign off on the fact Packard HAD to make changes to build the engines !!
No Nick Haynes Workshop Manual and this from AC Lovesey Aero engineer" ALL improvement were by R/R "
When the British sent copies of their plans over, US manufacturers had to do a lot of interpreting. There were differences in alloys, in screw pitches, in manufacturing techniques, even in the ways things were assembled. The stereotype is that to get high performance during WWII the Germans used painstaking attention to detail, the British used brilliant flourishes, the Americans used brute force and the Russians used German, British or German designs. :-) That's a huge exaggeration, of course, but there's some truth behind it. Canadian Don McVicar flew British Mosquitoes during the War. Afterwards he came home and went into the surplus aircraft business. To promote this - and for fun - he bought a Mosquito to use in air races. During practice runs he promptly broke two camshafts, something unheard of. Turned out his Mosquito used Packard-built Merlins. The only difference he could find was a tiny flange on the crankshaft of RR Merlins was missing on the Packards. The US engineers could simply see no reason for it, no function it served. Turned out it served absolutely no function... unless you were running full-out emergency War power (as you would in racing) for extended periods. Then it kept the crankshaft from breaking.
What a super film ,,many thanks from sunny old england
It is what it is and was!!! A great company that was destroyed by our government !!!
What an engine, Rolls-Royce, you got it right
I finally sold off my old pre-war Packard motorcar. She was good to me for many years.Not as fast as today's cars, but with a solid feel and ease of repair. I think we were both just getting too old. It is sad to see Detroit as it is today. I don't think anyone wants dirt under their fingernails anymore.
yes it is sad, but I dont think its that we dont want to work at a factory job. It was the unions, the far left and thier mob connections that ruined it all. in states with right to work laws, the same americans are producing really fine products.
@@jimnaz5267 You couldn’t be more wrong.
Unbelievable beautiful engine
Thank you for the correction. Will make the changes.
Proud of the history of our new HQ - Amerisource Industrial Supply
Let's not forget the Whittle Jet engine also invented here in the UK and another First.
IPJ Bradley and brought to the USA in the Tizard mission for research, development production and PROTECTION !!! The full story Dumb ass !!!!
Willy Wanker Given to USA by Britain who had done the design and development.
It still doesn't cancel the fact that the secrets of the working jet engine was given to the U.S. who, by their own research engineer's admittance were four years behind. Just the facts dumb ass.
A real shame the name Packard isn't an awesome car today...
One last comment Wilbur. I do not read 'Brit propaganda'. I served in the RAF and had access to historical records and still do. I live near RAF Duxford (now part of the Imperial War Museum), regularly visit the guys restoring WWII aircraft and am waiting the chance to work there part time as I am now retired. And I talk with people who build Merlins. Quote: " The addition of the Rolls-Royce Merlin to the P-51B/C model transformed the Mustang's performance....." (Kinzey 1996, p. 56)
Ichish BUT asshole that "quote" refers to the BASIC engine bein a RR but ALL production Merlin mustangs used the Packard built merlin !!! Hell the First production Mustang with a Merlin the XP51B used the Packard merlin !!!! The qoute is as wrong as 90% of the people thing the Mustang used RR built engines !!! WRONG !!!!!
What's really sad is the simple fact that Packards retooling for the war was one of the BIG factors contributing to their post WWII failure. Packard also taught the Brits about standardization, as the first sample of the British Merlins sent to the USA for reproducing were largely handfitted!-Gearhead222
Many factors came into play in the demise of Packard. Retooling for war was not one of them. Putting the Packard name on the mid priced Clipper cheapened the Packard name. Dropping the senior Packard after WWII also diminished the Packard name in the luxury market. Styling was horrible for years. Many called the cars, "pregnant Packards." But the biggest mistake was the 1954 merger with Studebaker. The infusion of cash kept the South Bend company afloat for a few more years but sank Packard.
Crap about standardisation Merlin 45 piston ring could fit a Merlin 71
They called Packard "The Master Motor Builders".
Well they were not that good in the Atlantic The distance between the swell pounded them to hell
So great to see these old videos. They seem important historically
Michael Bauers Glad you like them. Our goal is to present the raw historical clips.
Maggie's 'handbagging' of anyone she saw as an appeaser or without strength of character or policy was legendary. She even dished one to Reagan after he forgot Grenada was a Crown Territory when he sent in the Marines! That lady had strength of character, conviction and belief in what Britain could achieve and TSR2 would have been safe. There will always be one monument to her belief in technology, single mindedness and our ability to build things and that is the Channel Tunnel.
Great video, it's really sad what became of Packard (and Detroit). They won the war and lost the peace. Yes the Merlin was an RR design, and Packard did a VERY good job building them, just as Studebaker built a lot of Curtis Wright designed aircraft engines, engines that were better than CW's own.
18tangles I would challange that the PW R2800 was as good and better than anthing else and used in scores of aircraft...it with the other radials "Got the Job done" what else can you ask.....?????
just last week (9/11 day), a beautiful 1943 B-17 flew over the house , those radials just floating along , not working hard just loafing! the sound of WW2 engines you never forget!
Ron Brothers Here on Halloween day, 1996 an old man in a minivan had just totaled my truck. I was just getting out of the tow truck in from of my mothers house when I heard an amazing sound. Looking up there was a silver Confederate Air Force B-17 just breaking through the overcast clouds and heading toward the Raleigh-Durham Airport.
Jeff DeWitt So what ?????
So buttons!!!!!
Back when we actually used to build things in this once-fine nation. Now, we worry about how cheaply we can get the latest goody.
Rezqewr now at days we have military planes falling out of the sky regularly. In my days of service in the early and mid 70's we never lost a single bomber due to mechanical failure.
I agree! Proof of that....pt658 is still doing river tours and " patrols" using the three origional Packard engines!
Back when companies cared about quality not selling poorly made crap. Detroit made the bed it sleeps in.
@@jerrymccrae7202 The Packard engines in American PT boats weren't Merlins, they were a 1920's Packard designed V-12 that was originally used on aircraft that were an evolution of the WW1 Liberty engine, the 5M-2500 was the designation for the marine version used in the PT boats, a transmission was designed that bolted on to the front of the engine in place of the prop reduction gear box.
@@dukecraig2402 The Liberty engine was not a Packard design.
From 1942 new marks of spitfire were using the larger Rolls Royce Griffon engine. The improved Griffon 60 being introduced in 1943. The extra power was needed to deal with the new German Fokker Wolf fighter. In 1940 Britain had contacted the North American Aviation company With a requirement for a new ground attack aircraft. In just 102 days they had a design. Britain purchased the aircraft but were at first disappointed with its performance. A sample was sent to the Royal Airforce Establishment for research. There it was released that there was something extraordinary good about the airframe. They had some Merlins available and found that the Merlin fitted perfectly. And so the outstanding North American Mustang was born. A real hands across the ocean project.
If the same Merlin engine that was in Spits during the BOB had been fitted into the original Mustang design it would have run pretty much exactly the same, the 2 stage 2 speed supercharger Merlin's used in later versions of the Spit and was the version of the Merlin that what was put into the Mustang after it's production was seized by the USAAF was an American invention, the first aircraft in the world to use a 2 speed 2 stage supercharger was the early versions of the F4F Wildcat. At the time that the Mustang was being designed a 2 speed 2 stage supercharger hadn't been developed yet for the Allison engine, the USAAF had forbidden Allison to use any of it's funding for development of one because they wanted all the money to be spent on turbos for the 2nd stage to feed a single stage supercharger, that's why the only engine available to NAA when they designed the Mustang was an Allison with a single stage supercharger, production of the Packard Merlin in America hadn't started yet, the Allison's used in P38's at that same time had a turbo for the 2nd stage supercharging at higher altitudes. Aircraft and engine designers the world over were well aware of the fact that the atmosphere gets thinner the higher you go, the USAAF's answer to the problem was to use a turbo to feed a single stage supercharger above 9,000 feet (or so) with it's use being negated below those altitudes via wastegate dumps that would be closed directing the exhaust out of the wastegate's instead of spinning the turbo, as more and more exhaust is directed to the turbo it spins it faster and faster as altitude is gained and the air gets thinner, on a 2 stage 2 speed supercharger once altitude has been gained to around 9,000 feet it's shifted into it's 2nd speed, but then at the highest of altitudes it suffers the same problems as a single stage single speed supercharger does around 9,000 feet, it starts running out of air, where a turbo can keep supplying an engine with air higher then the aircraft's airframe is capable of flying due to the air being so thin that the wings don't create enough lift. The US Navy's solution to the problem was having a 2 speed 2 stage supercharger designed for their air cooled radial engines, the Merlin's weren't fitted with that type of supercharger until late 1940 early 1941 after they had been invented for the US Navy's aircraft, the British learned it from the early F4F's they'd obtained. The old adage that the Merlin was a better or more powerful engine than the Allison is a misnomer by people who don't know the timeline and development of supercharger systems for aircraft, America inventing and first using 2 speed 2 stage superchargers on aircraft engines before anyone else is proof they knew well about high altitude supercharging. When Mustang production was taken over by the USAAF the Merlin's made by Packard were already coming off their production line and it would have been idiotic for Packard to waste time retooling to make the Allison, a 2 speed 2 stage supercharger still hadn't been developed for Allison's yet and even if it had it still would have been idiotic to do it considering that given the same boost levels at the same altitudes with the same octane fuels the two engines run pretty much the same, they had a war to win and weren't going to waste time retooling a factory over fanboy bragging rights 70+ years later. Late war Merlins in something like the Sea Hornet make 2,050 HP. The 2 speed 2 stage supercharger version of the Allison that had been developed for the production version of the Twin Mustang makes 2,250 HP.
No Marks IX VIII VII X XI XIII Merlin Mk XVI Packard
fascinating documentary, thanks..
More Merlin. A Visit to the Home of the Merlin Aero Engine: Rolls-Royce in Derby
I remember as a kid here in the UK hearing that Packard was the American Rolls Royce. So I am thinking no coincidence that RR reached out to Packard to help develop and build this great engine. And a great job they did too! So tragic that Packard are not around anymore. No bailouts for them.
WiiiRRRttyy They couldn't compete after the War with the affordable luxury offered by Cadillac. That and the ill fated merger with Studebaker sealed their fate. The good news for dealers was that many of them became Mercedes dealers because Studebaker Packard had been the distributor in the US.
Dudley Just as sad that RR Cars are NO LONGER British owned !! ! ANd RR Engines has been bailed out a couple of times by their Government !! ! The rest of the story !!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 RR cars are still built in Britain and RR aero engines are all British and bought out Allison, you always leave out much of the real story.
ghostintheregime The Brits had received the Packard Marine engine M2500 before RR's trip to Packard and RR knew the quality and reliability of Packard engines why Packard agreed to build the merlin after Chrysler turned them down later building the R3350 for the B29, and Henry Ford turned them down, Ford later built the PW R2800 and their own Ford GAA tank engine 1100 Cu In V8 for the Sherman tank beside RR had also been in talks to have Packard build components for the merlin engine but Packard declined that seeing it as a can of worms and said they would only build Complete engines and no less than 1000, and they built 55,525 !!!
@@barrierodliffe4155 The RR may be built in England but it is German owned and they now use BMW engines, And that dum @$$ is the rest of the story !!!! RR bought out Allison for the American turboprop market and the Allison was rebranded as RR engine !!! We know what went on over here !!! DUUUUHH!!!!
Real people doing real work that meant something. Lives depended on them. What is that compared to Facebook and Twitter?
Ten years before they were listening to radio serials and playing Monopoly. Their spare nickels helped build the Golden Age of Hollywood in the depths of the Great Depression. Turns out that people who live in poor economic times (and in terms of purchasing power, these are poor times) choose escape activities.
A Canadian Lanc came over to join one of ours with Packard engines and went home with a Rolls Royce engine.
There are 17 surviving Lancaster bombers, 11 of which are powered by Packard built merlins. re web site Surviving Lancasters !!! Packard merlins used in 3440 Mk BIII's and 400 Canadian built MkX's !!!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 There are not 17 flying Lancaster bombers Moron. Packard copies went into under half of them.
Which engines did they have when they flew 3,561 miles from Malton Ontario to England?
@@nickdanger3802 Probably Packard : Now with the B1special they depended on R/R Merlins Oh and it was a MkXI Spitfire with R/R Merlin that flew from Hucknall UK to Beunos Aires Argentina Nov 45 . And then was used to Map Argentina No P51 nO pACKARD just the old Spitfire with a British pilot
Having a small library of books about WWII aircraft, notably The Spitfire, The Hurricane, The Mustang, The Lancaster, The Halifax and The Mosquito, one thing is clear. The Merlin engine was used in all of the above aircraft and a few others as well, either for their entire production, the majority of their production or for a single variant. Without the Merlin engine in all its different models and power ratings and different production plants, the task for The Allies of firstly containing Axis expansion and then the fight for Air Superiority and onwards to eventual Victory would have been near impossible to achieve within the same time frame The idea to produce the Merlin by Rolls Royce as well as under licence by Ford UK and later by Packard was a brilliant one. It achieved dispersal of production, vital in wartime to lessen the risk of losing production due to bombing, sabotage or accidental fire. I would also like to say that it is a testament to the efforts of the people from Rolls Royce, Ford UK and Packard USA that this was achieved successfully There are numerous examples of how countries have attempted to disperse production only for it to all fall in a heap slowing things down for months. The Free World owes a big debt of gratitude to Rolls Royce for taking the time and money to invest in the development of the PV12 engine which would eventually become known worldwide as The Merlin.
Ford UK was NOT a separate company at all It was controlled by the Ministry and Lord Beaverbrook in Particular They all were Ford USA had no say over Ford UK BECAUSE IF HE HAD BEEN HE WOULD HAVE REFUSED TO BUILD IT.
Ford UK did NOT exist It was a R/R factory
"It was thirty hears ago, in 1915..."
At the main library in Hampton, Va. in the '90s, I came across a picture book on the Mustang. "A bit more poke" was a quote from it when the British were first talking about putting their engine in the Mustang. But another tidbit of interest I always remember from that book was that later on, once Packard was up & running with R.R.Merlin's, & supplying them to England, a trick of crew chiefs in the field was to remove the American spark plugs out of the Packard Merlin & put British spark plugs in it.
kolbpilot Another Bull$hit story by the butt hurt Brits !!! Funny how 14,000 Merlin Mustang flew with American spark plugs !! DUUUUUHH!!!!!
Lord Beaverbrook The best production I ever saw was a job with which the Ministry had nothing to do, nothing at all. It was the production of the Rolls-Royce engines in the United States. It was done by the Pack hard Company. There was not a single representative of the Ministry there to supervise and only four representatives of the Rolls-Royce firm. The job was most 809 wonderfully done. In no time at all, production had been got under way. The output from that firm is remarkable. The Pack hard Rolls-Royce engine is an example to the whole world. There was a very good American aeroplane called the Mustang. The engine of the Mustang was giving good service, but some genius had the idea of putting Rolls-Royce engines into the Mustangs, and the result is a very good aeroplane, one of the best in the world-some people will say the very best. That was the result of this project in America over which the Ministry had no supervision, although the contract was made here by the Minister. Hansard FLEET AIR ARM. HL Deb 27 January 1943
wrongagain Nick This isfromA.C Lovesey. R/R aero engineer All improvements were by Rolls Royce not Packard
@@jacktattis Sorry Jackie, don't let those nostalgic patriotic emotions make you look like a fool!
The Packard Merlin was best. They improved bearing materials and built to tighter tolerances.
The Packard copy was not as good as the Rolls Royce original, the different bearing materials were because they were available locally, the tighter tolerances was a myth and based on the original Rolls Royce hand fitting of bearings, before Packard were shown how to make the Merlin engine Rolls Royce were already mass producing the Merlin engine, they could not have made almost twice as many as Packard while making many other engines if they had continued hand fitting for each engine. Rolls Royce worked to much better tolerances than Packard could, Rolls Royce even had to set up a plant in Britain to fix faults with the Packard copy.
back when America was united, strong and proud
Damn right. Before Liberalism ruined so much.
Sure, pal. That's why the US is about 15 times more wealthy than during WW2, and about 20 times more productive. And I'm not sorry you were left behind, either. Now get back to that oil change on the '78 Buick.
I had a 78 Buick. One tough car. I wish I still had it, but had to leave it when I moved.
@Troy Slyker - Which date was that? Pre-Pearl, there was Roosevelt trying to help and seeing the inevitable and honourable but constrained by both the average Joe and businessman who both then gladly took orders from Britain - and Germany - to get out of the Depression. Post-Pearl, there was arguments over fighting in Pacific or Europe or both, interned Japanese-Americans and other something-Americans, fifth columnists wandering about unhindered, segregated troops absolutely speechless to find Black and Asian Commonwealth servicemen treated comparatively equally, Americans still selling arms to Germany, and American leaders united in their belief that they would be proved right on everything despite the war-experience offered by their Allies. Post-War, there were debates over where to stay on as 'policeman' or go home and wait for everyone to pay off their war debt, or stay in Europe because lend-lease has helped Stalin takeover and start the Cold War and maybe the Americans should have listened to Churchill in 1943. Americans can be proud that, eventually, they were a major part of WW2 going the right way. The strength came from France and Britain's money ordering arms and putting America onto a very successful, war economy. As for united, well, that's a bit loose. As said so often, if America was united with its obvious Allies back in 1938, the war to defend democracy and 'Christian Civilisation' might never have started. Instead, its level of unitedness probably added two or three years to the war. Still, musn't grumble.
We also had dependable allies, and stood by them!
,,, the RR-75 piston alloy was used in racing engines for 50 years after WW-2, and has been only slightly improved upon since .
Very ineresting. Below is a link to a more recent, sort of, documentary about the Packard plant. Meet Allan Hill, the man who lives In Detroit's abandoned Packard Auto Plant
I'd like to get my hands on one of those Merlins...
They are available, you just need money
Packard, American precision well done. Sorry they are gone.
I had a handbook for these engines...this was amongst my late Father`s possessions...He was a CPO on the Motor Torpedo boats (PT boats in America) during WW2 and the boats he served used RR engines or Thornycroft Diesels (After the end of the war some boats were rebuilt using thornycroft engines)..
+soaringtractor NOTE I think you may have misunderstood my post... my Father was in the Royal Navy on the Motor Torpedo boats.... NOT the US Navy.PT boats... Have you watched the video on the RR Merlin or were you involved in some way, the information I gave was in good faith and the information only came to light long after my dad had passed away, I did try to find further information about the MTBs but unable to find a great deal of information...
+soaringtractor Yes I think that`s why my Father had this book, it was a service and maintainence handbook handbook for the Packard 2500 series....Incidentally I sold the book on a well known auction site for £15....
@@werbiewake yes the Brits received thousands of the Packard M2500 Marine engines, because the Merlin was not available nor was it powerfull enough for the MGB MTB or air sea rescue and Packard supplied them.
According to page 9 of Packard as an Aero Engine Builder The Packard Merlin Robert J Neal (has ! Not secure warning), 37,143 P-M's were made for "British Empire consumption". 31,143 were Lend Leased (not including Packard engines in 1,772 LL P51's). 16,485 were used by the US in P51's and P40's. Lanc marks III and X, almost half of production, were built with Packard Merlins.
Wrong again Nick Mark III only and not anywhere near half
@@jacktattisRolls-Royce due to it more primitive production methods and the pressure of German bombing could not meet the RAFs demand for the Merlin engines. The Packard V-1650 was more reliable and efficient.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Yes that was you fans tell us. And Rolls Royce admits that it was a great engine. However what you forget is that a Permanent team of R/R engineers were sent over to supervise , headed by James Elor with Col.Barrington as Chief Designer and John Read Production Engineer with many others. Rolls Royce paid Packard $130million and do you really think that they would not have wanted control of everything More Efficient ?????? where ?????? Both had 500 H.B.O
And the Merlin 61 through to 70 series weighed 1640 to1645 Lb Packard all variants 1690lb
It was a good thing that 'Rolls Royce' was mentioned in this video. If not, I was going to go into 'Attack Mode' ! The Rolls Royce / Packard Merlin was the most important of any Engines that went into Military Equipment.
Glad we avoided the wrath of a Merlin fan and that you liked the video. The Merlin story is fascinating and it really is an engine that made a difference. I have some more clips that I will be posting about it. Thanks for watching and for your comments.
18tangles Actually there were about 12 but the USA had a practice of getting it right the first time not having to build 30 models to get it right, it was no wonder the Brits could not build enough of any thing, kept changing it..Just build a good model and crank them out the door, there is a war going on......
18tangles The mainusers were the 3,440 LANVASTER Mk B III thats 13,760 engines, plus spares plus the 14,000 mustangs plus the 1,054 Spitfire MkXVI and approx 1500 Mosquitos, another 3,000 and The 1200 P40 F & L's an unknown number of hurricanes...thats about 32,000 engines...that the Brits didn't have to build and who knows where the rest of the 55,000 went, besides spare....
Wilbur Finnigan And Packard fixed all the flaws with the Merlin.. like the fuel stalling in a dive...
Wilbur Finnigan Packard also made parts THAT WOULD ACTUALLY INTERCHANGE with other engines of the same model
My Dad worked as a foreman at Rolls Royce Hillingdon he told me the Packard engines all had to be stripped down and rebuilt before they could be used in service. John
more like they were striped down and reverse engineered to find out why they were so much better than the rr ones.
Mark. Hardly, RR set up a facility just to strip and inspect Packard engines, they had to make repairs on many before they could be put in any planes.
Barrie Rodliffe are you sure they just weren't being snooty?
Mark Winberry Snooty, Why? RR showed Packard how to assemble Merlin engines, they paid Packard to do so and they had to set up a plant to inspect the engines and remedy any faults before they could put them into aircraft. Being snooty would be to make it public knowledge and not pay for any substandard engines.
Odd, they ran fine at Packard,maybe it was shitty English gas. If that was the case,why bother to open the crates they came in. and they were free given through Lend Lease and NEVER PAI.D FOR.
A terrific war film recounting the manufacturing contributions by Packard. I have read a lot on the history of this firm, Packard. I still cannot understand how this great company finally went out of business in 1958, I had read steel was in short supply after WWII. Possibly Packard priced their product out of the reach of most Americans compared to GM, Ford, Chrysler, or even AMC. Sad to see Packard go into history.
Tomorrow, I'll be seeing and hearing the real thing at the Omaka Classic Fighters 2017 Air Show. I went to the last one in 2015 - my first air show since I was a teenager - and spent the three days there walking on air. You can watch, and listen to, video clip after clip of Merlin-powered aircraft, but when you hear the real thing flying past at 300 mph, 50 feet off the ground...well, everyone who has heard that wonderful sound knows how I felt at that moment.
You missed one small point. Packard had trouble with their spark plugs. The british had to send there spark plugs over so they could even test run them. true story.
hard yakka did you like how it made the fillings in your teeth sparkle and crackle after you stuck one up your butt?
Hard OOOOOOOOOHHHHH BULLSHiT !!!!!! Packard NEVER made spark plugs !!! Champion, Autolite...... and dumb ass Packard had been building aero engines as long as RR WWI 1917 !!!!
@Incog Nito Yet the problem fuel worked just fine in the more powerful Rolls Royce made engines, maybe the problem was not fuel, that was used as an excuse for poor quality US aero engines.
Willy Wanker US spark plugs used in the Packard copy of the Merlin, British plugs had to be sent over. Packard never designed an aero engine, they had made parts for the old Liberty engines.
@@barrierodliffe4155 Old stupid fuker showing his ignorance AGAIN !!! Packard designed and builr aero engines as long as RR since WWI the Liberty engine was Jesse Vincents of Packard, he also designed their A1500, and they had n X 24 cylinder engine their A2500 and even a diesel aero engine He is Most famous for his M2500 PT Boat engine the engine that brought RR to Packard as you see the Limeys also used that engine !!! Any simple Google search of Packard Aero engines will show you the engines Packard built !! ! Hell you show YOU have not even watched this video as ass hole they are shown here but what is one to expect from a stupid asshole Bastard Brit. Stupid enough to TRY to tell US Americans what "WE..." did in our country during WW II !!! "WE..." save your useless ungrateful asses !!!!
The best engine of the WW2.. Made in the US....Its amazing that an old car company achieved this...
The best engine made in Britain, Packard did make some copies. Packard soon went bust without all the money from Rolls Royce who even had to show them how it should be made.
My Grandfather was the Engine plant Manager for the final engine plant put on line. He retired in 1955 after 45 years working for Packard.
It is my understanding that ford considered the engine to complicated to mass produce. Packard figured out a way to produce this engine in mass quantities and improved it along the way. Today, Rolls no longer builds car engines. They are owned by BMW.
@@fredwiley3731 I don't know about the Ford part. I saw the engine plant in action in 1952, at the ripe age of 10, when my Grandpa took my on a private tour of the plant. The engine build was all automated and something to behold.
@@philip77george Did you Grandfather work on the Packard V8 development?
@@fredwiley3731 I don't know for sure if he did but working there for 45 years I would image he did. My dad also worked there in the PT boat engine department. until '49
@@fredwiley3731 Nope !!! Henry Ford HATED the Brits for the way they treated him setting up his plants in England post WW I and he refused to build anything for the Brits !!! He did built a lot of the PW R2800 so you are wrong !!! R2800 was twice the size of a Merlin....
Great piece of American history of past years of engine technology.
Funny how they ordered all those engines just months before the start of the war, almost like they knew it was coming !
***** They knew, even 2 years before Pearl, the buildup was huge for a "peace time" economy. Gotta save the British Empire you know!
Mut zum Wolfsblut __ The Hawker Hurricane was ordered in 1934. "They" DID know war was coming.
Mut The first 3,000 Merlin for the USA were most likely a bribe by the Brits to get Packard and the War Department to build the Merlin FOR THE BRITS !!!! The USAAF had no plane for the engines !! ! They did eventually put 1311 of them in the P40 F & L !!!!It made NO difference in performance over the Allison as those merlins were also just a single stage, why no more were built !!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 Rolls Royce paid a fortune for second rate engines from Packard, even the Spitfire Mk V with a single stage Rolls Royce Merlin went higher and had much better climb than the P 51 with an Allison engine. If USA could not improve the P 40 by replacing the poor Allison, Rolls Royce could have, they certainly did to the P 51, a genuine Rolls Royce Merlin in 1942 and immediately 40 mph faster, it took NAA over a year to put them into production. P 40 D P 40 F Spitfire Mk V Max speed 354 mph 365 mph 375 mph rate of climb 2580 ft/min 2210 ft/min 3140 ft/min Ceiling 31,600 feet 35,500 feet 37,700 feet I wonder why the Spitfire Mk V was faster, with much better climb and went higher, they all had a single stage supercharger. No wonder RAF pilots in North Africa were so happy to replace the P 40's with the Spitfire.
@@barrierodliffe4155 Actually dumb ass the Early V1650-1 Merlin in the P40 was not as fast as the Allison why they only built 1311 of them And dumb ass the 60 series merlin was NOT AVAILABLE then... North American flew their finished Xp51B with the Packard merlin V1650-3 only weeks after the Limeys flew their hashed up test mules !!!! And the Xp51B was a finished product and faster with the Hamilton prop that the RR engine mule of RR and their Rotol prop. And dumb ass the Mk i&II Mustang with the Allison was faster and climbed faster thanthe THEN CURRENT shitfire MkV with the Single stage Merlin 45 !!!! ! Do the fukin research dumb ass !!! The only advantage was the shitfire was 2,0003 lighter because it had little fuel capacity !!!! go fuk yourelf ass hole !!!
I would like to add that in one of my books on the Lancaster a RAF engine fitter remarked that there was no difference between the two (Rolls or Packard) as far as they were concerned but that the Packard tool sets of aircraft spanners and sockets were highly valued for their strength and durability. The British made tools were too soft and deformed under prolonged use.
Funny how I still use many of my fathers old tools, made in Britain and older than I am. Soft in your tiny brain.
Any comments on translating UK drawing standards to Us 3rd Angle standards? I worked on joint UK/French projects!
javamann Yeah the plans as received were incomplete and many castings did NOT match the drawings, and many specifications were missing, all this had to be straighten out !!! And Packards largest task was making the 140 different taps and dies for the Bastard sized British whitworth threads and fittings !!! There were no suppliers in the USA !!!
Hello Wilbur -- there's a good overview on Wikipedia. The Packards were used in the P51 Mustangs which gave them the power to really be effective combat planes. Not sure about metrics but I do recall some mention of the plans having to be altered.
Wilbur knows SFA All measurements were Imperial with only BSW and BSF bolts having to be made by Packard
@@jacktattis Only for the engines going to the Brits !!! Why would Packard go to the trouble of making bastard british bolts for US use ?????? That is why All the Packard V1650-3/7/9 were used in the mustang only and ALL are 2 stage supercharged. all the rest of Paclard Merlins sent to the Brits were the 20 series SINGLE stage supercharged version !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 I will check Wilbur I have Morgan and Shacklady Spitfire the History I did the MkXVI had 266 engines 2 denoting Packard 66 the Variant and it was 2 speed 2 stage
Vote here to have Wilbur Finnigan BANNED from making any further hate filled asinine comments on You Tube !!!
Hey fuk face i am still here 4 years later !!!! DUUUUUUUUHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Willy Wanker. You are still telling the same old lies and being very obnoxious.
@@barrierodliffe4155 You stupid fuker just cannot stand or know the truth !!! Deal with it asshole !!!
kick ass motor period Lol
Packard..................Grandfather had a Packard car and was a Rolls Royce service agent! The Mustang Plane with the Packard Merlin Engine helped win us the war! No doubt about that!
No one is denying that but was not the war winning plane that Americans think it was. The P47 was the main US fighter with more Kills And the Spitfire just about beating both together
These men and women were the greatest generation.
Wilbur, arriviste2020, while your discussion is fascinating let's keep on topic and not veer off into accusations about colonial empires. Again, constructive, civil discourse.
censorship????
Wilbur Finnigan No, just trying to make sure we have an environment that is conducive to sharing and not combative. If you all would like to discuss other issues and topics, can I suggest you exchange contact details and take the conversation off line. Most of the people who view this clip are interested in it not in the other issues. Or, if they are, they can join your discussion. Cheers, Michael
WiiiRRRttyy Well sonny your grandmother didn't know shit ! !! as if you knew your history the Irish were very instrumental in the Building of America...as they were very hard workers and tougher than hell....they built most of the Eastern Rail Roads and were meaner than hell also....don't pick a fight with an Irshman because he will whip your ass !!!!
Wilbur Finnigan There you go trying to justify the Irish. WHY? It really is pathetic and sad. Get over your inferiority complex and try to lose that chip on your shoulder. It may wash with Americans but it cuts no ice in the real world. No one owes you anything, and I promise you that no one really cares.
WiiiRRRttyy I am not trying to justify anyone It is what it is You come on here bashing the Irish...Hell I have no inferiority complex and that is NOT a chip on my shoulder...thats PRIDE In who I am and what I have accomplished in my life. Nobody has given me anything and I expect nothing...I already have it...And quite frankly if it cuts no Ice with the world I could give a shit. I would suggest you spend some time researching history rather than trying to wear your big boy pants on you tube...you son are the pathetic little smart mouthed punk.....go figure...
Packard was the only engine plant that could meet the strict requirements of the R R engineering.
True. The Ford plant in Manchester had RR men in the factory ensuring quality. That would be more difficult in a US plant a long way away. Packard were at the quality end of the US auto industry.
You stick with your story, I'll stick with mine
grumpy sod Yes, RR were discerning. Packard were not doing much at the time so jumped at the chance of making the world's best plane engine. They knew they had a lot to learn and a win, win for them.
Packard were the only company that could go into production at short notice. Other companies had to re - equip with new tooling capable of meeting the required level of engineering
they had also built many V-12 engines.
-Packard were the only American engine manufacturer that Rolls Royce trusted with the manufacture of its engines.
I would also like to add that the ONLY country to produce Mustangs under licence outside of America was Australia. Admittedly it was post war before the production line could be established, but Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation produced Mustang Ds under licence here at Fisherman's Bend in Melbourne and some were equipped with RR Merlin's and some with Packard Merlins.
Mark Fryer The first planes they built had the Packard merlins, but when the war ended the production stopped and the Aussies were forced to use the British built ones, when they could get them, why production was short lived,
It may have been built by Packard but it was engineered by Rolls Royce
Me too BUT RE engineered for mass production by Packard !!! DUUUHH!!!!
Me too Only the Merlin !!! Packard other engine the M2500 Packard Marine was their own design and manufacture years before the merlin !!!
Willy Wanker Re engineered for mass production before being given to Packard to copy. The facts, try research moron.
another comment my dad made, was when Packard /Merlin V12s reached Britain , the pilots would pull strings to get the Spitfires with those engines in the planes. pilots said they were more reliable, and smoother running engines! and the Irish/ English thing, my grandmother was born in 1886 NY city(imagine that), she started working at 14yrs old, in the Bowrey, playing piano, and dancing, in bar-rooms. she said even in NY, things were bad for Irish, because english had a lot of power with business, and she endured many things she would rather forget! things only got better when she moved away to rural Massachusetts, met a carpenter guy and lived till 82yrs. and i wouldnt be here today if she hadnt taken care of the family, some place in the old family pictures, she is in a complete WELDING outfit, welding on a Liberty ship to transport war equipment to britain!
Wilbur Finnigan Just get a life Finnigan.
Got one.....!!!
18tangles The Packard engine being the 266 spec'd by Spitfire builder as a low/med altitude engine...how could that be used for photo recon, and why would the USAAF use the low alt Spitfire when they had the High alt faster Mustang Photo Recon????
18tangles Hell fire ! ! ! you admityou made a mistake???? Mr PERFECT??? MR Know it all???? and your welcome.....se you can teach an old DOG new tricks....it just takes longer.....ooohh well keep looking ....it might surprise you what you will find......
Wilbur Finnigan Tangles is a little slow (and stubburn) but if you hit em in the head enough times he does actual learn... I seen this myself.
good video
Amazing that think about how much high performance engineering went into these aircraft engine only to be lost after the war and Turbine engines that replaced them. Wasn't until 50 years later auto manufactures started to follow the same path with turbo, and super charging engines to produce same HP per Liter as these once great engines did.
MY GOD...We as a country seem to have no memory. No regard for things greater than themselves. So many people worked so hard to save so many more lives and we let the Packard plant fall like we did ? The govt should've saved that establishment come hell or high water.....seriously. I BELIEVE... one of the Packard facilities was in Philly? No? I sear I saw "The Packard Building" each time I went into Sungard at 13th and Callowhill St in Philly to built or repair a Robotic Data Storage Tape Library. Im a Gearhead so forgive me....I KNOW what it takes to build an engine how much attention to detail....the effort...etc. I am sad about this...well before my time but C'mon man....the USA should've lent a hand, we had the coin.
Failure of education
Engine tolerances are at their greatest today. This is the reason for size reduction more horse power per cubic inch.
Gm still around and they played both sides manufacturing trucks for the Nazi's in their German factory and I believe it was Dupont who sold them additive necessary to make synthetic fuel and oil but good company's like Packard and Bantam fell by the wayside
@@jcottrill1691 Hey dumb ass both GM and Ford plants in Germany and France were seized by the Nazi's and it was German and French that worked the factories during the war !!!! DUUUUHHHH!!!!!!!! We in the USA did the same thing to the German Bayer drug company !!! No money left the country and all products used by the USA !!!
Please everybody, skip the Anti-American hate speech and anger aimed at the American's from the British and go to Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles for the background on many WW2 fighters.
Chop Chop. Maybe you should look at the truth instead of your petty anti British nonsense.
Crazy to think that just a few years later these engines would basically be rendered obsolete(at least for military fighter aircraft) with the advent of jet aircraft.
I cannot explain that more simply. I had more to say than the reply allowed. It is continued on another post (somewhere on this page)
Read this, The Mustang was devised,designed and built on short order by N.A.A.
Ray Dutch Kindelberger had already been working on a new modern design and sold it to the Brits !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 Sold at high cost and Rolls Royce had to put a good engine in it before it was any good, still no Spitfire but the best US fighter.
@@barrierodliffe4155 Mustang got a job done no other fighter including your slobbered over Shitfire !!!! Brits only paid for the first 620 Allison engined Mustang Mk I & II !!!! ALL merlin powered Mustangs were bought and paid for by the USAAF and 1700 of them were GIVEN to the begging Brits !!! And show me where RR or anybody else in England put more than the first FOUR Merlins into a Mustang !!!! And those were hashed up test mules and UNFINISHED !!! North American engineered and produced ALL PRODUCTION Merlin powered Mustangs !!! DO NOT try and LIE to "WE...the PEOPLE of the United States of America !!!!!! "WE...." KNOW what "WE.." did in our country !!!! and "WE..." also know "WE..." SAVED YOUR SCRAWNY ASSES from the Hun !!!! Deal with it !!!!! "WE...." the ALLIES beat the Nazi's inspite of the British !!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 The Spitfire got many jobs done from the beginning of the war to the end, in fact more jobs done in 1944, the only time the extra range of the P 51 made any difference and the 1 job the Mustang did was defending USAAF bombers, it did not do that in 1942 or 1943, the Spitfire did, the P 51 did escort USAAF bombers from March 1944 but by August 1944 the range was no problem. The USAAF paid for their own P 51's except Rolls Royce had already paid for all the Merlin engines and given the carburetor used on the Merlin engine to Bendix, note given, Bendix did not pay a cent. Just as we gave you so many things free of charge. Britain paid for every little thing they got from USA. The 5 Mustangs fitted with Rolls Royce engines worked and showed up the poor Allison for the dog it was, 40 mph faster. You cowardly Finnigan's did not save anyone and no USA never saved Britain, in fact without Britain Germany would not have been kicked out of North Africa, Sicily would not have been taken, there would have been no invasion of Italy and no USAAF bombing in 1943, 1944 or 1945, no D Day and the British were also fighting the Japanese. We the allies did beat the Germans not all of whom were Nazi's unlike some of your pro Nazi people, we the allies also beat the Japanese. USA, the country that came late did little and tries to take all the credit.
@@barrierodliffe4155 OOOOOHHHH !!!! Barrie you dumb ass SOB !!!! RR NEVER paid for an Engine used in the Mustangs !!! The V1650-3 or-7 -or -9 !!! USA Government paid for ALL Merlins after the Brits first 9,000 !!! The Brits were broke and the USA used Lend lease!! Same as with the Mustangs !!! AND Dumb ass the BENDIX pressure carb was used on ALL US large aircraft engines starting in 1938...and yes the Allison was the first to get it as was the wrights and PW's .......3 full fuking years before RR showed up on their begging mission !! Yous see that happened in the USA !! ! You hapless Brits never got around to its use untill the 60 series 2 stage mwelin in late 1942 !! Check the time line you dumb laying Bastard !!!! And further more you stupid Bastards RR only flew 4 Merlin Mustangs !! ! They cut up the 5th trying to mount the griffon engine midship like the P39 !!! It was never finished, and scrapped !!!! You fukin coward Limeys got your scrawny asses run off the continent at Runkirk and never went back until you had American leadership and planning at D Day !! ! DUUUUUUHHHHH!!!!!!!! You stupid fuker do the REAL research !! I tire of your endless lies, hype and British BULLSHIT !!! YES !!! The USA saved your scrawny British asses in WW II !!!! Your welcome you ungratefull son of a Bitch !!!!
Packard was a conservative company, and thusly never made a boast they couldn't back up. They were the 'Master Motor Builders', and you had but to "Ask The Man Who Owns One" to get an honest opinion of their quality. It speaks volumes that Rolls-Royce ONLY trusted Packard to build the Merlin - and to streamline quite a few of the design features that were necessary to build it in the quantities that were desperately needed to save the world from tyranny. R.I.P Packard. You never got a government bailout.
18tangles There war time expenditures were never recouped and they pissed the Gov't off for building the merlin and never got any post war govt contracts, the Head Army procurment officer was an ex GM employee (Allison) and Allison lost a lot of sales due to the Merlin mustang. politics raises its head again, plus an illadvised and devious merger with Studebaker did both in....
The others refused because they couldn't do the engines in quantity with the quality Rolls-Royce needed. They wouldn't be bothered with the exacting standards Rolls-Royce demanded and thought the design of the Merlin was too complex for anything approaching volume production. Packard came through. Doesn't matter from this distance anymore. When the time came and Packard needed help to survive - and could have on post war government contracts for defense - the contracts were pulled and given to the big three.
OOOH so true !!!! I suspect that the war purchasing board head, an ex GM employee saw to it Packard got no post war Government contracts as a "punishment" for building the merlin and some being used in the Mustang cost Allison (GM) a bunch of money !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 :Here's some more politics for you, when Lockheed saw the performance and range jump when the Merlin was fitted to the Mustang, they asked the government for permission to test 2 in the P38, gm cried to the government and the government said "No"!
@@glennfalzo3718 Ooooooohhhh I know that !!!! BUT the extended range of the Mustang was NOT due to the Merlin !!!! The Allison had great range and low alt Performance, better than the merlin in any plane....It just did not get a later high altitude supercharger like the Merlin !!! You do know RR used THREE different superchargers on the merlin don't you ??? All merlins up to the XX (20) series were but a single stage as was the Allison....With the introduction of the 20 series through the 50 series they added a second higher speed to the supercharger, MOST merlins used during WWII were this model....ALL Mk BI & BIII & X Lancasters, all Hurricanes, most of the Mosquitos and all but the Mk VII & VIII & IX & the XVI shitfires used the early merlin XX series, after the IX there were 1700 Griffon engine models made !!! Most Brits seem to want to assign the power and alt of the 60 series Merlin to ALL merlins !!!! WRONG !!!!! The Mustang got its range from twice the internal fuel capacity as a shitfire, to a more aerodynamic fuselage, the laminar flow wing and a thrust generating radiator housing, all pulled along by a more efficient Hamilton prop !!! And to add to the Merlin/Allison controversey, the head Government procurement official was an............EX GM employee !!!! So why he nixed the Merlin in the P38, Plus the fact merlins were in short supply and you got twice as many Mustangs at a lessor price as you would P38's !!!!! Who da thunk !!!!!
Packard made the Merlin under the RR specifications but made it rotate the other way. Oil that should be fed 90 degrees before it's needed was fed 90 degrees too late. Also, in you mill a shaft in one direction and make it work in the opposite direction, microscopic shards of case hardened steel will pass through any oil filter and find its way into a bearing housing whereupon the engine would seize. CONTINUED ON ANOTHER POST.
H M WHAT the Fuk you talking about ????? You are really fuked in the head !!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 Yes he is a little off
@@jacktattis Thats one of the few rants by soaringfinnegan that actually make sense.
Wilbur Soaring Finnigan Tractor is correct. And this is the only time in 10+ years that this is happened. sO YOU REALLY ARE WRONG
@@jacktattis It is shocking that old wilby has said something right at last! I have a guiltysecret tho i check all RollsRoyce, Merlin, Packard and Allison videos to see what new levels it has sunk to! I also have suspicions that 'doktor bimmer' could be another finnigan begginigan alias or clone, it has the same arrogant bigotry and ignorance displayed in its ramblings.
If more work and development had been done on axial flow turbine type propulsion units, we could have leap frogged over the reciprocating piston type aircraft. Smooth, powerful, fast, and efficient it's hard to beat kerosene fueled jet thrust for your powered flight needs. No lost motion pulses in a rotating a finned shaft as it were.
Someone is making Merlin engines again for the Reno air races. I know they are over a million dollars.. They can squeeze 2500 HP or more out of them. Water injection etc.
Mike383 NOBODY is making the merlin engine !!!! What is being used are new old stock or remanufactured engines !!! Jack Roush aviation has a warehouse full of them new, used, cores, and is building some new parts. He approached RR on building new engines and RR said "NO WAY" !!! Also Vintage V12 in Calif has a ton of them also and also does rebuilding !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 The last I heard Rolls Royce announced about five years ago they were going to start building Merlins again because the value was high and the racers were running out. Don't know if it's true but they said it.
@@Mike383HK I have never heard that, but it would be impractical to retool for a limited production....and expensive !!!! but yes, if they built them before they can build them again, but there again other people have tried to build other engines for a speciality market and went broke !!! Too expensive for the few engines produced. How many planes using the merlin are still flying ???? How many engines could they sell ??? Considering today a remanufactured Merlin is over a million dollars !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 I was in aerospace for half of my career. Most tooling costs to much to destroy so they warehouse it. Block casting today is no big deal. Even for over a million apiece you could retool. Jay Leno has one. Some private guy owns Packard now. They made the engine under licence. Rolls Royce was astounded at the quality. The Packard Merlin was better.
@@Mike383HK Maybe IF RR kept the molds but 70 years later, I doubt it !!! Nobody owns Packard today !!! ! They have been gone for 60 years and defunct !!! Not everybody has the money Jay Leno has that is interested in aircraft. We just lost Paul Allen, co founder with Bill Gates of microsoft, and he has a hell of a collection of aircraft and armor in his Everett Washington Flying Heritage collection. They are right at flying the last ORIGINAL Me262 jet using Modified, updated original engines. He never lived to see it fly !!!
Merlin was probably not the best but most important engine that turned the war around. RR was lucky to find Packard that had the expertise and facilities to build such a complex engine back then in MASS production. It's incredibly sad how Packard saved the world but disappeared after the war. How could this happen to such a technically competent operation?
The Merlin was already in mass production before Packard had any involvement. Over 100,000 were made in Britain by Rolls Royce in various factories, and Ford UK, and around 50,000 by Packard in the US. The Merlin remained in production at Packard until 1950 (the jet engine had taken over), it is significant that the company went into steep decline from the early '50s and were taken over by Studebaker in '55, and then went bust
Wing To Lau Packard saved the world all by themselves. That is pushing it. You can't beat these old newsreels for swaying people can you.
@@psk1w1 The RR Merlin was superseded by the RR Griffon *in* WW2. The British no longer needed the Merlin. But as it was made under licence in the USA and in a US made fighter, the Mustang, the production was still kept open.
Mass production in UK, over 1,000. Mass production in USA, over 100,000.
@@johnburns4017 Bull dust No Packard powered plane got to 44500 ft or climb at 5450 ft/min All BI special Lancs had Merlins NO Packards [ Dam Busters Tallboy Grand Slam ]
Merlin's also powered tanks, not just countless aircraft from fighters to big heavy bombers and PT boats.
Mike No merlin ever powered a US Navy PT boat !!! Pay attention as the PACKARD marine engine the M2500 was Packard purpose designed and built engine being delivered to the US Navy and the Brits in 1938 !!! Packard ran its first Merlin in Aug 1941 !!! THREE years later !!! How could they be ???? You did NOT pay attention to the video !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 Many British MTB's and MGB's did not use the Packard, the Camper and Nicholson Motor Gun Boat used a Paxman diesel, the Fairmile C Motor Gun Boat used Hall Scot engines, yes an American engine. The Fairmile D Motor Torpedo Boat did use the Packard as did a few others, the bigger MGB's used other engines
Re Tanks Meteors detuned Merlins
I enjoyed this video immensely. Packard was a very accomplished engine design and manufacturing company before they started building Merlins under license. The footage showing the draftsman generating third-angle projection drawings from the original RR first-angle projection is but the tip of an iceberg of activity that Packard expended. Basically, they "Americanized" the engine with SAE fasteners, gear specs, spline sizes, etc. This standardization of specifications allowed them to apply American mass-production machining and gaging techniques to produce them in large numbers.. The Rolls-Royce and Packard Merlins would fit in the same space and do the same work, but they were different in many details.
One of the you tube contributers who has his act together says there were 18 major differences in the Packard V1650 version compared to the RR version.I have no reason to doubt him, I know Packard made major changes to the engines and some being evolutionary developments of the engine.
tangles..Actually Packard built a total of 55,525 total of all models Merlins 1/3 the total production in just over 4 years starting from zero on machines and factory. A total industrial committement A feat I doubt could be done today and NO computers used..
18tangles Actually if you check RR site and Packards site you will see Packard built 55,525 Merlins in just over four years, 1/3 the total production and RR built them for what 12 years to get those numbers???
18tangles RR could only wish to have built 10,000 griffons how about 8,000 ???
You are wrong. The Packard-built Merlin was always and remained a Rolls Royce engine made under licence. The engine was already in mass production in the UK at various Rolls Royce plants and also Ford UK. Packard did not change the design, and used British spec fasteners so that parts could remain interchangeable with UK-built engines. Production numbers: 105,000 were made in the UK, plus 18,000 combat-damaged engines were repaired for re-use by Rolls Royce. Packard made 55,000. Your post is an American fantasy.
Wilbur certainly is the usual Bucketmouth that arrives when Merlins are the theme,but there again the irish have the gift!! of the gab so they say, its a wonder his teeth dont fall out through his constantly open mouth. I;m not a limey??nor a yank so have no axe to grind
Unfortunately America couldn't do it again.
MrBreeze With any luck we won't have to.
King Rose Archives I would not hold my breath...
MrBreeze Especially in Detroit, which has been turned into a cesspool. Very sad!
MrBreeze Could America do it again? That's a damn good question! Given what we know from these documentaries & the output from factories I would say NO. We're in deep stuff if we needed the output to be favorable again. The Bush crime family destroyed the American will to achieve & can you blame young people to be cavalier in their attitudes? We need our work to be done by American folks not the Chinese. If you look on nearly every label, the goods are coming from China. This is not to blame the Chinese for our government's inability to come in from the rain. What has been done to our infrastructure is inexcusable
geneseesolorider I think I know why the cars assembly moved out of Detroit. This was to kill the UAW. The cars are still being made of US material & labor but no longer in Detroit. They might as well bulldoze Detroit & start all over.
Other sources insist that the 12 cylinder Packard engines used in PT boats were not Merlin engines. They were marine engines that descended from the Liberty engines used in WW I. Packard's marine engines were designated as Packard 1M- 2500 through 5M-2500 engines. Most people know that Packard built Merlin engines, but the Packard-built Merlins were prioritized for use in aviation. Merlin engines were not made available for non-aviation use until 1943. The U.S. military continued to use the Packard marine engines until the war ended. These engines were all amazing for their time, but their history seems somewhat blurry.
These Packard Merlin engines cost $25,000 each back in WW2 and they built 16,000 of them for the Mustangs. That’s $400,000,000 worth of engines!
And Packard told R/R that with their methods they could produce their engine cheaper Someone was telling porkies
@@jacktattisPackard engines were better..and cost less to build.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 well as far as I am aware no Packard Merlin got to 2070hp as didthe 130 Series and this is from two sources Tag Archives; Cost of Packard Merlin $12548 to $17185 Graham Hoyland : Cost of Merlin 2000 GBP in 1940 approx. $4000+ USD at the exchange rate of the day