The Secret Nazi Fighter Jet You've Never Heard Of
By 1944, the war had taken a sharp turn for the axis forces after three years of military dominance. They were not only severely depleted in strategic resources but also facing an overwhelming Allied offensive in all the theaters of World War 2.
As the Allies threatened to achieve complete aerial supremacy over Europe, Germany’s high command opted to halt the production of bombers and large aircraft to concentrate on developing state-of-the-art jet fighters.
But the legendary German engineering would not be enough to give the Axis the upper hand this time. The Allies had caught up with their aviation industry, and the Germans panicked when they learned their enemies were about to deploy the British Gloster Meteor jet-powered airplane.
In response, the Luftwaffe clung to its hopes of developing the Focke-Wulf Ta 183 Huckebein, a groundbreaking jet fighter that would replace the Messerschmitt Me 262, the first operational jet warplane in the world.
Still, as the Allies drove ever closer to Berlin and the last steel and aluminum stockpiles were exhausted, the Germans continued their desperate attempt to build the aircraft, hoping that they could repel the Allies as they made their final push towards the Führerbunker. And if they had to use wood to complete the project, that’s how it would be…
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No question that Kurt Tank's team's design was uber-influential in the design of many aircraft after the war. It wasn't until the 60s that western fighter jet designs steered away from that basic design philosophy, with the soviets keeping it until the 70s. A testament to a brilliant yet simple and elegant solution.
He did have gen 2 fighters in the drawingboard as well, with afterburner and everything.
@@matsv201 Designed and wind-tested in Argentina Pulqui III, a.k.a. later as the Indian Hindustan HF-24 Marut ... Tank was forced to leave Argentina in 1955, after Perón was ousted in a military coup.
You said Uber
Kurt Tank is one of the best Airspace engineers we knew. Adaptive and Inventive. Per example with his legend of the 190. Everything about it was (we cant use this so what else can we do and still make it better)
@@matsv201 8
The Pulqui II developement was slowed but not stopped immediatly after Peron was outsed (it took ten years more). The last two prototypes (Esp. Mk V) flew into the early 60s. Then, power plant, the Pulqui II used Rolls Royce Nene engine, and Martin Baker ejection seats. The pilot killed in Protoype II, Capt Vedania Mannuwal was from hindi ancestry. Kurt Tank itsefl flew the plane to test the issues and nearly killed himself in the attempt. Interestingly the first Pulqui (Pulqui I) was designed by Emile Dewoitine (wicvh in turn has escaped the collaborationist government from Vichy), and the designer of the D.520, one of the most beautiful WW2 planes.
While the MIG 15 is quite different in many ways, it certainly seems like it was at least loosely influenced by the TA-183.
The Russians and Americans captured thousands of German scientists at wars end... along with blueprints and Jet/Rocket prototypes. They were all put to work in their military and space projects. Look into Operation Paper Clip. SS Officer Wernher von Braun is known as The Father Of NASA.
Mig15 had copied rolls Royce jet engines
mig 15 was based on this design the russians where to technological impaired to design their own . its even a noted fact that they used parts and design to make their own .
As soon as I saw the 183's drawings, I immediately thought of the MiG-15. The resemblance is striking.
@@marcusfranconium3392 Just look at the TU-4 vs the B-29.
There was also the Saab 29 Tunnan which was losely based on the designs of the Messerschmitt P.1101 and the Ta 183.
There is a town in Sweden called Finspång. They have made steam turbines since turn of the century. During WWII they was contracted to build gasturbien (aka jet) engines, this was fairly late in the war, and as far as i know non was delivered. Anyway, the industry started to make gasturbine after the war and sell them. Anyway, the rumors have it that somewhere in the documentation the P.1101 drawings was smuggled out. Finspång is really close to Linköping where the J29 Tunnan was developed and built. Now J29 tunnan never used that engine, but rather a UK engine that was licences build by Volvo in the other side of Sweden that was a radial flow engine. Its interesting to see that the Mig 9 is far more similar to J29 and P1101 than to Ta183, while the Mig 15 look simular to the Ta183. Still Mig 9 and Ta183. The mig 9 just use a Russian built BMW 003 engine, while Ta183 would have used a hybrid design. And to be fair, the F86 sabre, kind of also look rather simular. I guess J29, Mig 15 and F86 simply have the benefit of being a few years later, hence having access to more powerful engines. The irony of the story was that the plant in Finspång was bought up by ASEA, that was merge into ABB that sold out the gas turbine production in Finspång in the early 00 to Siemens. (gasturbines was sold to Alstom but the generator was retained in ABB production)
@@matsv201 It was Operation Paperclip that gained all information about german designs and development. As soon as Boeing engineers had german data for swept wing design they turned all their aircraft design over. B47 and B52 had never borned without Operation Paperclip. And so fort all rocketry that US designed since W. Von Braun surrendered to allies with all his crew and data.
The Tunan is a Kurt Tank design. Heavily based on the Ta-183 Huckbein.
@@yt45204 I've read in actual books that it was Kurt Tank's design
@@yt45204 Its been over a decade since I looked into it. The one book I can remember is German Secret Weapons of World War II, I believe the one by Ian V. Hogg. I remember reading that at one point Tank ended up in South America, where he completed the Tunan design. Also, the MiG-15 is directly related to the Ta-183. When the Allies were dividing up the spoils, Stalin grabbed everything(and everyone) he could, and relocated it all to Russia. This inlcuded the wooden mock-up of the Ta-183, and a lot of its research material. We got some of the info also, but not a mock-up. Tge Soviets got a copy of tge Brits Nene engine when Stalin was allowed to send people to check out the factory. One way tgey guaranteed they got the correct material was one of the Soviet team had foam soles on his shoes. As they went by the machine tools, he would step hard to collect the metal shavings, at the same time noting which section he was in.
Another major problem was the shortage of experienced pilots . They lost all the ace and such and the training for new pilots was very short do to the shortage .
Also the lack of instruments for the cockpit,1200 262 were built but only 300 were completed for duty,
La falta de combustible dejó a la mejor fuerza aérea del mundo en tierra.
the victor it wasn't called if the us said the truth
@@luiscesarcenturion8583 I translated that into Spanish, it still didn't make sense. Please edit or post in your native language.
("Sgt.J"). Yeai! Duster. 👍The Car a Decent one. "Even the inline 6." Lol.✌️
The Me262, with tricycle landing gear, was a gorgeous design despite its flaws!
El problema estaba en la débil aleación de los alabes de sus turbinas Jumo 004 . Todo lo demás un avion revolucionario e insuperable.
Agreed. A magnificent, beautiful, and timeless design. One of the most influential aircraft ever.
It was very interesting to see the very early tail dragger 262, one that is often overlooked.
German aircraft DESIGN was more than a decade, better 2 decades ahead of anybody else.
No olvidar el fantástico diseño sigilo del Horten Ho 229 !!! predecesor de los actuales aviones sigilos
I made a vac-form kit of one of these in the 1980's. It's suspiciously close to several later cold-war era aircraft - the MiG 15 & 17, for instance, and the SAAB 29 'Tunnan'.
I was thinking of the SAAB myself when I saw it.
and the Dassault Ouragan
Main difference from the Migs and Ouragan being the high shoulder-mounted wing.
@@lancerevell5979 La-15 then.
The SAAB design team under Lars Brising acquired P.1101 data, a Messerschmitt design and used it to explore the swept-wing configuration with an experimental version of the SAAB 91 Safir. This led to development of the SAAB 29 Tunnan (Barrel), designated J29 by the Royal Swedish Air Force and first flown on Sept. 1, 1948
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the Swedish J29 because that resembles the Ta183 way more than the Migs
Most people aren't going to be familiar with Swedish fighters.
@@darklordojeda If you're going to make a video about it you damn well better do your research.
SAAB supposedly also had access to the Ta 183 blueprints.
Have a look at the Messerschmitt P.1101, a competitioner in the Emergency Fighter program. For testing it had variable sweep wing. The later Bell X-5 based on it.
Not just based...it was allmost a total copy
To be fair, "based on", "copied from", and "come with same ingenious solution independently" were virtually visually indistinguishable, unless one have access to development cycle dossiers. No disrespect intended to Nazi germany engineer, or american engineer, just another perspective.
And the Bell X-5 showed that there was significant issues with the concept - mostly a tail that was way too small. The Me P1101 had fixed swept wings but the Bell X-5 had variable sweep wings.
Oh you are so wrong. Bell X5 was ripped off from the British Miles M52. That is where the Bell got the moving tail design from. As per an agreement the Brits gave Bell the drawings of the M52, however nothing came the other way. The M52 was able to break the sound barrier with a jet engine and conventional take off, whereas the Bell needed a rocket and an air launch. If the Government hadn't cut funding and gave the plans to America, the mach race could have ended very differently. Miles had been working on the M52 since 1943.
@@fryertuck6496 The Bell X-1 ripped the tail design off the Miles M52 (and then the British government canceled it). The X-5 came much later…
Dr. Kurt Tank also developed a beautiful Bird of Prey HF 24 named as Marut for India. But because it lacked a really good engine, the Air Force considered its performance not upto their satisfaction.
The "MK" in "Mk 108" stood for "Maschinenkanone"-"machine cannon", not "Mark" 108
Yup. "Em - Kay" instead of "mark". Depsite knowing that, in my head I imagine pronouncing it "mark" at least half the time.
@@BlahVideosBlahBlah Ikr . (off-topic) I was bewildered to learn a Baja Bug , off-roader , was pronounced Ba Ha , as in the Baja Desert in Cal/Mex . I've known several American friends also pronounce Baja as Ba Ja . Who'da thought ?
Sad end of the Pulqui II. The last prototype is in the Morón's Aeronautic Museum, Buenos Aires. A beautiful machine.
Well now we know where the mig15 came from.
Hell yes! And we or folks like us knew about this aircraft long ago. Read Anthony Sutton's book, National Suicide and one will see that much of the Soviets technology was purposely fed to them by Western nations. They need to have a boogey-man to justify feeding the Military Industrial Complex monster, that today has become the Technocracy Corporate Deep State.
And thanks to Rolls Royce the mig 15 had a decent engage.
Like most Russian designs, they’re always a cheaper engineered knockoff.
@@michaelbooher339 you say that like its a bad thing.
F 86 SABRE too
Thank you for an unbiased, and semingly factful insight to an aircraft, as an aviation enthusiast was unaware of. Please keep up this good work.
I wish I was smart enough to be a pilot.
These are all scripted from Wikipedia. No real effort put in to creating original content.
@@treystephens6166 Just wish I was Smart!
@@pepermintpilot1694 I’m almost a 34 year old part time dishwasher & I’ve never had a car, a girlfriend or a place of my own. I don’t understand why I never succeeded in life but then I remember it’s because I’m stupid!!!
@@treystephens6166 Thanks. I can relate to that!
Superb narration and production quality, thanks for your time and effort, they keep me endlessly entertained.
Lack of oil, aluminum, steel, and a reliable logistical system to get the supplies to where they were needed. Also, the Me-262 was not designed as a dogfighter. It was a bomber interceptor.
Actually... it was AH who wanted it to be used as a bomber interceptor/fighter bomber. Adolph Galland, one of Germanys top aces and Hitlers favorite... tried to convince AH to designate it strictly as a fighter. His pleas fell on deaf ears though.
A rather unhappy workforce didn't help either. It's tough being slave labor.
The war was lost in 1941. Provoking two enemies with large populations and invulnerable manufacturing was a damn fool move for the Axis.
It was designed as a fighter not the Bomber Interceptor that Hitler demanded.
@@taniusarndt8975 Hitler DIDN'T insist on a Bomber Interceptor. That was a function of being a fighter at that time (although it was no accident that German fighters mostly had cannon armament). Hitler wanted it to be an untouchably fast light bomber. Chalk that up to Stuka nostalgia and Mosquito envy.
The Pulqui II is on an argentinian air force museum. I was able to visit it and the plane looks spectacular. White and red. I didn't know about its story in Germany.
Great production value using limited footage…and excellent voice over!
THANK YOU for slowing down your presentation compared to your earlier videos. I can actually follow what you're saying without reducing the playback speed.
Tops mate. Never knew about this one. Very informative. Thanks from the old Aussie.
That was very interesting, thank you. I certainly had never heard of the TA-183 before
Quisiera añadir que, afortunadamente para la población civil (sobre la que se centró el bombardeo previo al derrocamiento de J.D.Peron) el Pulqui II no consta que tuviera participación alguna, ya que solo había un prototipo en vuelo (quizas ninguno), ya que de los 5 construidos, 1 fue para pruebas estáticas y 3 se destruyeron en accidentes con dos pilotos fallecidos), actualmente el 5° (último construido en 1959) sobrevive y se exibe en el Museo del Aire y espacial de Morón), saludos y buen informe...
True. Pulqui II was never used in action and certainly not during the coup that overthrew Perón.
En realidad el pulqui no participo en el derrocamiento de peron ya que esa funcion la cumplieron los Gloster Meteor, si un pulqui II participo en el desfile de la victoria, en el cual las maquinas tenian la inscripcion "cristo vence"
Cuantos pilotos alemanes trabajaron por Argentina? Cuantos se quedaron, y cuantos volvieron a su patria, Marcelo? Saludos desde Alemania :)
Me consta según archivos que Adolf Galand asesoró a pilotos de la Fuerza Aerea Argentina, Otto Bherens falleció en un accidente de uno de los prototipos del Pulqui II, y Werner Baumbach, estuvo volando Lancaster en pruebas de un bomba tipo Hs,296 (PAT 1), en una prueba sobre el Rio de la PLata uno de los motores fallo estrellandose y falleciendo en el mismo junto a otros tripulantes.Tambien Hans Rudel estuvo de paso por el pais desonozco si realizo vuelos,.Los hermanos Horten, realizaron trabajos de diseño (Reimar) y dictaron clases en la escuela de la F.A.A. y la facultad de la ciudad de Córdoba, de sus proyectos I.A 47 (sólo se realizó la maquueta de madera) el I.A 48 solo dibujos y el mod. para túnel de viento y del I.A 48 se construyo un sólo ejemplar que volo a fines de la década de 1950, Reimar se establecio en la Pcia. de Córdoba , se caso y tuvo hijos y murió en Argentina-Saludos desde Argentina.
Great summary of a fascinating time in aviation History. Great production, you've done it again Dark Skies. Cheers
The Saab 29 flying Tunnan was the real successor of the Huckebein.
The Me 262 was vastly superior to the Glouster Meteor. It was deferred by Hitler into a FB role thus delaying development and roll out. The TA would never had been a replacement for the Me 262, simply too late.....
Except for reliability and availability the ME262 engines. The ME262 would have been of limited use against the Meteor as it would have spent most of it’s time being serviced and having engines replaced
patrick roger that
Superior in what way, they had a maximum life of only 16 hours before they self destructed.
The Ta 183 was not chosen as the final "Emergency Lightweight Fighter". The Messerschmitt P.1011 and Blohm & Voss P 209 both had orders for several prototypes each.
I was fortunate to take several pictures of the Pulqui II during a visit to Argentina many years ago.....they had an air museum by the aeroparque Jorge Newberry right next to the Rio De La Plata.....they also had a Skyhawk and a Black Lancaster.....the Pulqui did remind me of a MIG 15.....but a bit more graceful and not as utilitarian as the Mig.....
Some mention J-29, that set several speed records. The FW was not known by Sweden, but German research papers on swept wings reached SAAB 1945, which made them change from straight to swept wings. The bulky look was for housing the bulky British jet engine. Not for using wood. The Swedish jet engine was abandoned for the proven British, due to emergency with the cold war and Soviet union.
Swept wings, the proud british never would have accepted this "German invention!!
@@michaelpielorz9283 The fact the Spitfire wing came from pre-war German research rather blows that idea out of the water. Not that it was a one way street either - the Germans copied the British idea of using fuel injection, and upward firing guns to name but two. Countries will always evaluate other countries ideas, and sometimes adopt them for themselves.
The Tank design team had already designed the Pulqui III, which was finally developed in India, being this already a supersonic fighter with ground attack characteristics.
That's right, that plane was the Hindustan "Marut" (storm in Hindi)...greetings from Argentina...
El Pulqui III que llegó a ser maqueta era un delta diseñado por Horten. Nunca pasó de maqueta de madera, porque a Horten no lo respetaban, porque no era un fiestero como Tank, que luego de 5 años de hacer las cosas mas o menos bien comenzó a preferir las tertulias filo nazis y gastar gran parte de lo asignado avanzar en el proyecto en champagne y putas para agasajar, a los políticos que estaban encantados y les importaba poco que defalque al estado, ya que "organizaba e invitaba a las festicholas".
@@aronrealco4434 En el Museo Nacional de Aeronáutica de Moron está un ala volante de Horten, y otra llamada "piernífero", ya que era una especie de ala volante en la que el piloto le daba impulso para despegar usando sus piernas...
If you know anything about German aircraft... you know about Kurt Tank and german experimental and jet powered aircraft. The Huckbein being no exception.
Thank you very much for your video. Very interesting and informative. I remember very well the Pulqui, I was born in Argentina in December 1945. When I was a young child I had a plastic kit of this airplane.
hello jorge mosca - are there still this plastic kits buyable?
I heard they actually built some prototypes but they used a vegetable based glue to help hold the wings to the fuselage . The glue did not work well enough delaying development until it was too late to get a battle ready fighter. It was one of the many factors the kept the plane from reaching production.
I've heard that too,, about building a flying prototype. I don't recall the story of the vegetable glue though,, but ultimately,, the built prototype could be just rumor,, but who knows. My understanding is that the thing was all blue printed out and ready to be built and the Soviets captured the plans.
That's for the He 162...
Just accept the fact that there would be no f-86 or Mig 15 without that aircraft design seriously.
Yep worlds first assult rifle stg44, ballistic missile and fighter jet!
Because the USA and USSR were wholly incapable of separate development programmes.
@@thefunnyfritz4035While early soviet jet design was actually at least to some degree based on late war german jets. The Americans, like the British, had already designed and flown their own jets before the fall of Berlin, before the capture of enemy Me262s, way back in 1942. The Americans did study the technology as much as possible to fully grasp the level of technology and understanding the germans had achieved which was roughly the information that the soviets possessed at the time too, meaning studying these machines could aid the understanding of future Soviet jet design. As for the sabre, it was designed by the same designer of the p51, using the experience gained from the bell p59a in test flights and the failures of the p80a in early korea.
In winning WW2, Russia and the US out manufactured the Germans in bombs, planes, ships, tanks and artillery. Stalin was quoted, “Quantity has a quality all its own”
@supersayianjim-xl German Generals wanted to start the War in 1945. Hitler was a Gambler and thought he could Bluff the English and the French into giving him Europe without a fight. The invasion of Poland forced the English and the French into declaring War. Hitler and Stalin knew a War between the two was Inevitable. Hitler was ready to start it after the Battle of Britain ended. Stalin thought it would start a couple of years later than it did. Hitler needed conquered Russian oil, metals, wheat, farm land and Slave labor to maintain his War machine. Hitler knew War with the US was Inevitable too, but he thought he could defeat the Soviet Union before then, and the US would be too busy with Japan to be much of a threat to him.
@supersayianjim-xl The Japanese Zero's superiority was destroyed by the US Hellcat and every other US warplane made after that. The Zero was turned into an exploding firecracker with a two second machine gun by US fighter planes. Why? No armor for the Japanese pilot and no self sealing fuel tanks which turned the Zero into a fiery funeral pyre. Most of the experienced Japanese pilots were killed at Midway as was four Main Aircraft Carriers. The Big Japanese submarines were just targets for US planes and accomplished nothing. The US Submarine fleet sunk 55 percent of the Japanese merchant fleet turning Japan into a land of starvation. The Japanese Naval superiority was destroyed by its Admiral's stupidity, with Midway and Leyte Gulf being prime examples. Of course, the US cracking of the Japanese secret Naval codes helped a lot. The Japanese banked on one Big Naval battle to destroy the US fleet but the US never obliged and pursued a hit and run strategy until 1944 when it overwhelmed the Japanese with huge numbers of new Battleships, cruisers and Aircraft Carriers. The Germans and Japanese did share tech of the German jet fighters, rocket engines and radar via long distance German submarine trips between Germany and Japanese occupied territory.
Great video, as always, thank you.
By 1944 WW2 had been ongoing for more than 4 years, i.e. at least since 1939 according to conventional knowledge. Many historians count 1937 with the Sino-Japanese war as the beginning...
Imo, the WW2 was a world war after Dec 8, 1941. And WW2 actually did not end until the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1992. Some would argue that WW1 actually never ended, it is just that combat operations we not taking place from 1918 to 1939.
@@insideoutsideupsidedown2218 some would say the earth is flat! With your logic WW1 didn’t start well into 1917 !!? By which time Russia had signed armistice with Germany so ??? Are you trying to dice/ cube the cake 🎂?
Is there a point here?
@@insideoutsideupsidedown2218 now that's a subject. Much of which I'd agree. Could be said if one wanted to go real deep into the subject,, that it was just one very long war. A war in which the whole world lost. But that takes some serious understanding of even a larger war.
@@insideoutsideupsidedown2218 Huh so your logic is that despite everywhere from Canada across to Europe, Africa, the middle east, Asia, Far Asia, Australia all being involved in a huge range involving dozens countries across 1000s and 1000s of miles, into only became a world war when the all important yanks got involved. Jesus christ.
The range of the Meteor was only 600 miles. It would probably be of limited use in Europe. Remember that the German jets needed only very limited range.
The Allies were well into mainland Europe! So 600 miles heaps
By late 1944, the Allies already had bases in France.
@@WALTERBROADDUS The early Meteors were not that good. The Meteors were only 20MPH faster than the Hawker Tempest and significantly less maneuverable. The Meteor rapidly gained the name of the "flying coffin" . In tests against the Spitfire Mk 19, the Meteors were outclassed. Eric Brown had very little respect for early Meteor.
@@malcolmbruce1894 still, it was a decent first try. The Bell P 59 was a dog as well.
@@malcolmbruce1894 Virtually a piston engine plane with a jet engine. The meteor was petty terrible.
What the Germans could not manufacture was pilots. That's what cost them the air war.
Very Informative Video! 💯
Enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up
Now we know where the Sabre Jet came from.
Mig 15 as well
Great video - IL2 1946 had most of these futuristic german designs.
Some encounters between Gloster Meteors and German Jets seem having taken place in Northern Italy or Flanders; after this, Meteor pilots received instructions to avoid any fighting with German jets, just run away upon sighting them.
*There were no Gloster Meteors in Northern Italy.* *The RAF was very unimpressed with the Meteors performance and it was never used in the fighter role during WW2.*
^^ Y porque? Porque los Me 262 eran mas agiles? O los pilotos mejores?
El Me-262 era poco ágil en combate, su velocidad, superaba a todos los aviones aliados, tenía sus inconvenientes, ni los pilotos ni los sistemas de tiro estaban adaptados a esas velocidades, para tirar con sus cañones, tenían que reducir algo la velocidad, y quedaban un momento a merced de los artilleros de los bombarderos. No iba mal encaminado el Hitler al indicar que el Me-262 se utilizase como bombardero, los fabricantes pudieron modificar al menos alguno, enfrentarse radicalmente a un poder así no es inteligente ni práctico. Gesund +
@@sandervanderkammen9230 You are known for your pontifical and no supported comments about Wankel Rotary Combustion Engine, that cross the fence of free expression, and make you member of the bullying class. No interest in whatever you may say
Very slight note: It`s not a Mark 103 cannon, it`s Maschinenkanone 103.
I always used to wonder about those Korean War era jets... Apparently, it was as I always suspected. No wonder the 183 has been "hushed up". Thank you very much for this video.
It is interesting to see what the origin of the jet engine was that powered the Russian MiG-15 jets that flew in Korea from November 30, 1950. The title of an article: "The Jet that Shocked the West" and an excerpt "(having been alerted to the fact that the U.K. Labour government wanted to improve post-war UK-Russia foreign relations)" will give some clues. Unfortunately, a precurser to the present situation and a lesson in Russian ethics and, consequently, how one should act and respond. In this case the wishes of the governments of the UK and Germany, at different times, were similar and appear to me to have been well Intentioned though, as time has shown, misplaced.
@@PNH-sf4jz The MiG-15 was powered by the VK1 designed by Vladimir Klimov
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Hello Sandyboy as you know, the VK-1 was a little changed copy of the the Rolls Royce Nene engine. As the RD 45 the Russians increased the size of combustors and the turbine a little and finessed the airflow a bit and used their own metallurgy but before Klimov would put his name to what they'ed produced he made them change the metallurgy back to Rolls Royce's. It's always funny to see you desperately trying to deny the famous Rolls Royce origins of the VK1 when we know that soon you'll be just as desperately claiming that the Snecma Atar is nothing other than unadulterated BMW engine.
Pulqui in Mapuche means “Arrow.” Another Arrow is a notorious failure. Seems like a bad name for airplane projects. Doesn’t end well.
The Problem wasnt the production of enough fighters but they had no gasoline. Ive read in an depot in Regensburg they had stored 1000 262planes but no fuel
The Messerschmitt Me-262 ran primarily on J-2 stoff, a synthetic jet fuel made from coal which was in plentiful supply in Germany. Allied bombing caused shortages of all logistical support.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 main LW fuel problems was SUPPLY OF AVGAS , not JP-2. The last chance to make jet fighter work ; would have been late 1943 when LW had 1000 'experten" pilots. COMPLETING the JUMO-004A by 1942 COULD HAVE BEEN MADE TO WORK , PROVIDED SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF NICKEL/CHROME alloy was stockpiled. which was assembled but installed in the EAST-WALL WEST WALL AND THE ATLANTIC WALL.1940-1943.
@@paullakowski2509 Exactly my point! the Jumo -004b Orkan engine needed *No Avgas,* was cheaper and needed less manpower to build than a DB-601 or Jumo 210 engine and used significantly less restricted strategic materials. The Jumo 004b required no Nickel in its construction, the Jumo -004A required Krupp P-193 _Tinadur-60_ (60% Nickel). The Jumo 004b was redesigned to use Krupp P-198 _Chomadur_ a high temperature, creep resistant alloy based on Chromium with no Nickel content. _Chromadur_ (A296) is still used in jet and gas turbine production. The Jumo 004b had excellent durability thanks to the introduction of hollow turbine blades with bleed air-cooling, and high temperature, heat resistant ceramic coatings throughout the hot section. Common on modern engines but completely unavailable to Allied jet engines. Many factors effected the outcome of the war... in hindsight ir is easy to see that by late 1940 Britain and Germany had both lost the war and America and the Soviet Union would be the only winners.
Thanks for slowing down the voice-over.
The La 15 resembles this much more than the MiG 15, I think it was even based off the appearance.
i like your pfp
I thought the thumbnail was la-15 at first
The La-160 is very close to the design.
Yes, el ala alta y el timón de cola en "T"
Saab 29 Tunnan was also similar to the Focke-Wulf Ta 183 Huckebein
Right, and 'tunnan' means barrel in english.
@@markkupio4472 And I still think that the Swedish team had the better "TA183" compared to the Pulki and the Mig15.
Kurt Tank was a very talented, innovative, but also practical designer, for sure!
Like so many in germany. If there would have been no war, probably this engineers and designers would have built up the most incredible jets of that time (like the russians nowadays) and sold them massively into the world.
@@TessaractAlemania-hd7tv possibly, yes. Although Russian jets are kind of overrated, today (since you brought this one up). They used to be very innovative, for sure. Nowadays obviously the talented engineers are still there, but the execution is poor (probably not engineers' fault).
A striking resemblance to the Saab 29 Tunnan that first flew in 1946.
Kurt Tank also went on to design a very elegant strike fighter for India before he finally returned home to Germany.
An American officer, collecting weapons after the war, was told by a German crew that they could change the engine on a 262 in half an hour, even in the field, if needed! So the low endurance wasn't a problem, only spares. I wonder how long it took to change an engine on a Meteor? And Kurt Tank was the most gifted designer of the war, making some of the best functioning fighters, FW190/TA152, but luckily at that time Germany had neigther pilots left nor the fuel. If a Lockheed Lightning had met top German pilots on an equal level, it wouldn't stand a chance, so the "Forktailed Devil" is a later myth made by Americans. Only the fact that it could fly and the Germans couldn't, made it a threat
The Brits and Tanks need their lies to live.
LucasArts' "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" (1991) made me aware of this "looks like a MiG 15" Ta 183.
There was no TA-183 in SWOTL!😏
Maybe not related to the Mig-15. The Lavochkin La-15 on the other hand... 🤔
The British prototype jet engines spent more time running on benches prior to being fitted to an aircraft than the expected lifespan of the 262 engines. The German designs were just too immature and manufacturing capabilities too limited to ever make a difference. The aircraft did look nice though.
By the time the 262 became operational the UK had three Centrifugal flow turbine engines and two Axial flow turbine engines in production. But that's ignored by these KZhead channels. Both the US and UK had two Jet fighters by the wars end with several more on the drawing books.
The maximum life of the jet engine on the Me262 was 25 hours, with a more realistic life expectancy of 15 hours. The flight hours before overhaul on the first Allied centrifugal jet engines was around 180 hours, and steadily went up. The U.S. was flight testing the P-80 Shooting Star in early 1944, along with the British Meteor. Both were faster than the Me262.
The key thing was the superior metallurgy of the British
@@robertpatrick3350 in knowing what is needed and having access to the materials required.
@@robertpatrick3350 as it happens Sir Frank Whittle knew of the limitation of the integrity of the metals which is why he made centrifugal engines. I recommend a book by Sir Stanley Hooker "Not much of an Engineer". He designed the superchargers for the Merlin engine and was in on the ground floor on the development of jet engines with Whittle from the beginning. Amazing read and highly recommend it. Also there is a interview with Hooker on KZhead also by the same name as the book. Also well worth a gander.
Odd how many post ww2 Soviet designs resemble German (and some Allied) designs, yet are always explained away via this or that set of differences.
Not to mention they ,,meaning both Soviet and allied designs jumped a generation.
@@gregelliott2537I love how people try to act like the allies did not take German technology and that they just looked the same and had the same system out of coincidents lol
@@tiagomonteiro130 Professor Werner Von Braun was the engineer who put people on the moon. The Saturn V did look more than a bit like his earlier work, e.g. the V2
@@tiagomonteiro130 exactly. It's a fun subject to look into and research. The mig 15 wasn't the only jet that came from re-worked German plans that flew over the skies of Korea
@@tiagomonteiro130 Everyone who got their hands on German technology used a lot of it, because it was ahead of what they had themselves. Except the defeated Axis nations of course, partly because the US and Russia had taken all their geniuses away.
There was a supersonic prototype that they were working on as well, if I recall correctly it was Jaeger P13 but internet search doesn't show anything on it that I saw. It was in a book back before the internet came about.
What's the name of this book?
very good video, the pulqui 2 can be visited at the MNA (National Aeronautical Museum) Morón Argentina
I think the biggest issue with the thin wooden wings isn't even enemy fire, it's the strength in turns or any oscillations from transsonic flight.
But what about the British _Mosquito_ and its wood construction? Albeit not as fast as the 183, wouldn't the Mosquito's weight (due to larger size) induce much more wing loading and thereby experience the same issue with strength? My understanding was that they were fast and agile, but maybe their use as a night bomber/recon plane meant that it hadn't seen the same high-stress maneuvers your referring to... 🤷♂️
@@DUKE_of_RAMBLE the mosquito had both thicker wings and wouldn't be pulling as many Gs as a jet fighter
A friend who passed away in 1999 was a WWII Polish fighter pilot who flew in England in 315 Sq, married an English girl and ended up in Argentina with Kurt Tank and the rest of the jet program team. He actually had to sell himself to Peron as an experienced pilot and engineer that could be beneficial as a member of the production crew, since he had traveled there without being an official member of the group. He also became close friends with Otto Behrens who sadly died in the crash of a Pulqui Dos when the wings failed. He preferred the personality of Rudel(a common man) over the seemingly arrogant aristocratic Adolph Galland. His wife was a seamstress who made many dresses for the German wives as well.
Interesting information, thx!
Thank you for this anecdote.
Single-jet engine allowed a high maneuverability. It was adopted by all allies (without the wooden wings of course). their so eagerly praised "meteor" was a dead end with too little too late compared to the > 1000 Me 262s.
The Gloster "Meat box" was a very disappointing design hastily converted from a twin propeller design, it was a fighter only on paper and never never saw effect service in the fighter role in RAF service.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Thanks!
I'm from Argentina. The Pulqui II prototypes where never used in combat, much less in the 1955 coup against Perón, father of the Pulqui and Pulqui II proyects. The infamous bombarment of the plaza was made with Gloster Meteors.
Hubo un ataque con un Pulqui tomado por la sublevación. No recuerdo si fue aereo o un ataque a tierra.
@@zumb42 Interesante. Nunca leí nada sobre un Pulqui usado más que en vuelos de prueba. Los cañones de 20mm estaban completamente operacionales?
well, theres a reason why the f-86 and mig -15 resemble each other so much as well as the ta-183 and me 1101.
I love all of your channels! Thanks for making all these great videos!
the throw away idea that became the Iron curtain‘s mainstay template for decades
The period from the 1930s-1950s was a time of incredible advancements to aviation. In 1939, when the war began, biplanes were still relatively common military aircraft, the British, Soviets, Italians and Chinese using them, Italy even used them in front line duty around 1941 and the last kill scored in combat by a biplane was in 1945. Yet in 1942, this Ta-183 project begins, which results in the most advanced plane by 1945's standards and a plane which influenced the Mig-15, a plane incredibly modern for 1949's standards. It's ridiculous to think that in 1945, biplanes associated with WW1 were still in use, and at the same time, the Ta-183 could have been finished, a plane roughly as effective as a 1950 fighter jet of the early cold war!
The MiG-15 was designed by German Heinkel engineer Siegfried Gunter as part of the Projekt 1000 series in the early 1940s.
TA-183, any IL-2 sturmovick player worth his cannons knows of this fighter
I was going to comment something similar before I saw this comment. So many great aircraft in those games!
How many of the engineers who worked on this where taken back to Russia to work on the Mig 15? It looks like a shortened Mig 15.
The Lavochkin La 174 prototype looks exactly like this thing, check it out.
None of the engineers who worked on this were taken to Russia. Dark skies said in this video that the British captured Kurt Tank's facilies, so the engineers were taken to the West.
@@sandystan7978 Wrong. The Russians along with the Americans captured and brought thousands of German Rocket/Jet scientists back to their countries and put them to work on their military/space programs. Jet prototypes were being worked on by multiple German firms across Germany. Many of these scientists, plans, blueprints and prototypes fell into Soviet hands. Kurt Tanks firm wasn't the only one involved in a Jet with this design. Look into the Americans and Operation Paperclip... over 2400 German scientists were brought to the US after the war. German rocket scientist (v2 rocket) Wernher von Braun is known as The Father Of NASA.
The MiG-15 was designed by Heinkel engineer Siegfried Gunter.
Many went to Russia, America and Britain. It was the German Jumo 004 Turbo Jet engine designed by Anselm Franz that was the fore runner of all modern jet engines and not Frank whittles bulky and inefficient design.
Listening to dark skies is like listening to a wehraboo kid read his favourite fanfic
Actually the Pulqui II never got into production run since they couldn't find an engine supplier,the 1955 dogfights that occurred during the Revolución Libertadora were between older WWII models,that I can tell you as an Argentinian
Muy bien, Santiago, viva Messi! :D
Hermann Göring was openly a fan of the British "wooden wonder," the Mosquito. It was slick, fast, nimble and very rugged. The Hughes H-4 Hercules (aka Spruce Goose) was made mostly of wood, as well, as the aircraft needed to be made of "non-strategic" materials. So that's not a shocking idea, at least in that era. Both aircraft were designed, from the ground up, to be made of wood. Taking an aircraft designed for aluminum and switching, last minute, to wood is going to cause some severe issues. I suspect that's what happened to the TA-183. When they say "covered in plywood," they're not usually talking about cutting sheets of plywood and nailing them to the frame. They're usually talking about cutting and laying down thin plies of wood, providing a very smooth, curved surface, then covering that in glue and laying down another layer of thin plies (oriented differently) over that. Looking at the cross-section on the Spruce Goose, these plies appeared to approximately 1/32" in thickness. Putting down 8 such plies would give you 1/4" of thickness for the skin of the aircraft but the skin provides SIGNIFICANT structural strength. This was part of why the Mosquito was able to soak up a tremendous number of hits, but keep flying. Designed for wood construction, this plane likely could've flown and performed well. Designed for aluminum and switched to wood at the last minute ... doomed.
Wood isn’t just wood. They didn’t have, Queen Charlotte island, old growth spruce.
Wood is not a "inferior" product to build an airplane, as people think. With the proper technology and the right kind of glue, wood has excellent properties for aeronautical use.
MiG-15? Nah, the LA-15 is a clone pretty much. very distinct features, almost identical.
If you read up on the history of the la-15 you'd know that it incorporates data collected from various prototypes that were built to test various design elements such as the swept wings, whilst the placement of the engine was already a preexisting design the Soviets used earlier. No doubt that they probably referenced the German design but I doubt they just "copied it" since the German design was pretty barebones as it is and without reliable data on its performance it would've been a big gamble to do that
Damn that looked like an early MiG.
good video but i noted one glaring mistake when you said the me 262 was the first operational jet fighter in the world. the British gloster meteor flew just days before the me 262 meaning the meteor was in fact the first operational jet fighter in the world.
*That sir, is an outright lie, the first flight of the Messerschmitt Me-262 with jets engines was a year earlier, the Me-262 was also the first jet fighter aircraft in operational service.*
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Perfidious Albion. The Brits need their lies to live.
Yes, an aircraft I have never heard before! This is all about life, weapons are mere instruments in the hands of governmental systems many a times serving weird purposes. Technically, I can only admire the ingenuity with which the plane was conceived and even put into life. Thank you for the the rare information. Paul, 67, fan of aircraft of whatever part of world.
kinda awesome how nazi germany despite their clear far right wing ideology, advanced tech in aviation and almost unbeatable determination of world domination still lost it all because the world comes together to beat bigotry and ignorance. nazis will always lose
Two big failures of the nazis were radar proximity fuses and heat seeking missiles. Also prioritisation of piston development.
And maybe having a certifiable lunitic in charge of the whole show !?!
I saw the thumbnail and Immediately thought, “Pulqui”?
It is actually not MiG 15 that is similar to the Huckebein, it is the Lavochkin's La 15 that was with the same configuration.
The MiG-15 was designed by Heinkel engineer Siegfried Gunter.
Hey at least it's not aliens. We truly are a terrifyingly brilliant species
The Luftwaffe also developed the all wooden Me 163 Komet as a rocket powered interceptor.
Dangerous enough to fly that it was close to the Japanese Kamakazi.
@@AndyZach Fastest aircraft in the world (702 mph) until the Bell X1 broke the sound barrier in 1947. The problem with the Komet was the special refinery that made the fuel was destroyed by Allied bombing.
@@AndyZach The British Gloster _"Meatbox"_ wins that title... over 1,000 crashed and killed 450 RAF pilots.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Over 4,000 Meteors were produced and were in service with the RAF between 1944 and 1965. This ignores the other 30 countries who flew it. So not so dangerous after all. The Komet had a habit of dissolving its pilots and no country after the war built the Komet as it was so lethal. Name me one other hydrogen peroxide powered fighter that was in service? Thought not.
@@sapphiresomeday *Yeah, 1 out of 4 crashed... the worst safety record of any jet fighter and particularly fatal considering that the Gloster **_"Meatbox"_** (as it was called by RAF pilots) couldn't even reach Mach 1.*
excellent video so the sabre f86 and mig15 was based?
The bird that was originally slated to replace the Me-262 was the Horton Ho-229/A3.
And what about the futuristic Horten H XIII ?
Use to fly the sims ,the Huckebein was one of the simulation , the ME 262 was a delight to fly ,there was a crazy rocket plane too ,can't remember much about it ,it was tested by a female test pilot . The Mig and Sabre were both highly influenced by the Huckebein ,the Mig was really a great fly ,had smarter air brakes than the Sabre ,but in combat the Sabre had the edge , very difficult to land ,because of the speed and second rate air brakes.
Me 163, flown by the famous german female pilot Hanna Reitsch, which also flew the first german helicopter
Interesting video, this was a WWII Nazi jet that I had never heard of before.
There's some great plastic model kits in 1/48th scale available , if you're interested . Also , why not have a look out for what is known as 'Luft 46' . Lots of wild , crazy designs . Some only designs on paper , some model and full-size mock-ups and wind-tunnel designs , but definitely some made !
Great video very interesting 👍
In Sweden we called it Saab 29 "Flygande tunnan", "The Flying Barrel". Guess they got the drawings cheap after the war :)
This was not a 'Nazi' fighter. And activities of well know German aircraft designers such as Tank and Messerschmitt after WW2 are well known and documented.
That's a argument Hill to die on for another day.
Ha.
True,,,, it wasn't.
I have heard about of it my entire life, greetings from argentina PD: Kurt Tank was not SS, so its as nazi as the f86 or the mig15 or the tuna
Any time anyone hears 'German ww2' they assume 'NAZIS '. Failure of our educational system, I guess.
Any weapon designer working for the Nazis knew who he was working for. Many made use of forced labor by concentration camp inmates (think Werner von Braun and Peenemünde). Just because he was a brilliant aircraft designer (his real peak product being the TA-152 i.m.o.), doesn’t mean he wasn’t guilty of collaborating with the Nazis.
@@alexschroder6295 kurt tank was working on planes before the nazis took power, he never joined the SS, the company Focke Wulf never had slave workers, the Israelis never chase him, neither was called for the nuremberg trials
Why the Swedish SAAB J-29 Flying Barrel is not mentioned ? The TA-183 design couldn't have been that ignored far north.
While the F-86 is quite different in many ways, it certainly seems like it was at least loosely influenced by the TA-183. Why didn't you mention it?
The F-86 Sabre was designed by German Fokker engineer Edgar Shmud and a team from Messerschmitt.
I'd love to see more content on Nazi X-Planes. Their concepts were ahead of their time and I find them quite fascinating. The ME 262 outperforms an F-84, which was the first aircraft the newly-reformed Luftwaffe used in 1956.
Did the F-84's engines die after 10 hours?
The WW2 Gloster Meteor outperformed the Me 262. So what that is saying is the F-84 was a really bad jet fighter… (The F-84G was slightly faster than both and had basically the same range on internal fuel and both the F-84 and Meteor had a much higher rate of climb than the Me 262).
Im no 262 fan boy, but I blame the common issues with the bird on a dying war machine thanks to allied bombings on major facilities. And I know for every 1 ME262 in the sky there were 5 on the ground having their jets overhauled. I think the normal lifecycle of the Jumo was 20 hours or so before overhaul. The 262's primary role (allegedly) was as a bomber interceptor, not a fighter. The main advantage over the meteor was it's speed, but that was about it. Every bit of performance was nearly on par with the other, but at the end of the day the Brits had overwhelming numbers of meteors compared to the 262. Plus, Sir Frank Whittle's jet engine was nearly bullet-proof from the get go
@@guerrinlove3416 the jumos got overhauled every 10 hours. That was due to the low material quality. The first engines passed the 100hour test, but after they got rid of short materials (as much as possible) the engines became overhaul intense.
The F-84 was a straight wing which limited its speed and maneuvering. the F-86 was the interim answer in the Korean War
Can I ask why the aircraft is described a political persuasion in the title? American aircraft aren’t described as Democrat or Republican (apart from the company name), nor English fighters Tory or Labour? Just asking. Calling it German might be more correct. Great video.
Thank you. Excellent narration.
Kurt Tank actually collaborated in the construction of three prototypes, called Pulki 1, Pulqui 2 and Pulki 3, the latter which was not built in Argentina, Kurt escaped to India due to the liberating revolution and there he built it under the name of Maruti, a twin-reactor destined for Argentina but that stayed in India.
Pulki 1 Dewotine
This is not a Nazi fighter…it was designed by Kurt Tank after the war….this channel constantly uses spurious information and non-related footage.
Exactly 👍
Some americans and a lot of brit s got stuck in WWII propaganda and were unable to differ between Nazi- and german.(:-))
@@michaelpielorz9283 that's true for several nations, I suppose. But I'm sick and tired of these historical inaccuracies for the purpose of creating cheap clickbait. Worst...people start to believe this.
@@KFO6666 ……good point….disinformation will mess up peoples perception of history.
One reason the ME 262 was redesigned as a tri cycle gear was that the rear blast was eating up the runways....
SIR, I WOUL LISTEN to you narrate just about anything. such a gift. slow music
Very interesting story, never heard of this one. Good work.