There seems to be an ongoing trend within the cinematic superhero genre. All superheroes fight... the same. On the page each superhero has a distinct character background that informs how they move. When translated to film, our favorite superheroes seem to all fall into the same cliches time and time again.
#superhero #marvel #nerdstalgic
Written by Dave Baker
Edited by Nick Murphy
I love how Spider-Man is never mentioned cause it’s clear how distinct he is as a character.
Right, because he’s supposed to act and move like a spider. Haha
And even in Into the Spider-Verse, they're still different from each other.
They are still different from one another. Like some of them rely a lot of web to immobilize foes while some versions rely to agility a bit more.
@@ytht21 right exactly even live action are different Tobey was all brute strength and Spider sense, Andrew was all speed, agility and wit and Tom is a decent mixture of both seen throughout his trilogy plus the webs also make them unique from other heroes
o.o
Massive props to Willem Dafoe for knowing the importance of fight scenes needing character: to return to Spider-Man: No Way Home, he made it a condition of his contract that he do the fight scenes himself, so that he could inject his performance into them, not just in the spoken moments. It's a richer movie because of it.
Yes! God I LOVES the apartment complex fight. There was so much character in the moves that both Peter and Goblin employed. Especially that WWE like slam through the floors. Just beautiful, all with that massive grin on his face the entire time.
This is largely how he was for the original Spider-Man film. Initially, he was just supposed to be for "spoken bits" and everything was going to be handled by a body double, but he absolutely insisted on being the one in the costume as much as possible, for everything he could, and only ever relenting when it came to the stuntwork.
I didn't know this, wow ! to know what to ask for in your role and get it. the movie is much better for it that hilarious whistle at the end when the blade comes out, those are the things a great actor brings to a character
And that fight scene is among the best in the MCU. Its a lot grittier and better
I'd say it's one of the only things that really work in that movie.
I think daredevil is a great example of how to use fighting in media. His style is very quick and brawly while also being still being flashy which reflects his personality. The fights are memorable and his style works incredibly well within the show.
It’s also incredible how he struggles, especially in season 1 when he has to lean against the wall to catch his breathe.
Real talk you could mean the show or the movie. As much as people hated the movie, the fight choreography was head and shoulders above its contemporaries. The bullet points version is the same as for the Matrix... styles were developed for each character, then the actors had to train in that style. The One did something similar too.
Since he's supposed to be this devil that haunts and beats the shit out of criminals they did a crazy good job of balancing that aspect of his character with the sheer exhaustion and physical toll of being just a mortal man under the surface. Like, the moments when he just takes a moment and leans against the wall to catch his breath and then uses that same moment as a feint to catch his opponents off guard is just... *chefs kiss*.
The same as batman though.
You are right! Daredevil style is distinct Daredevil is a boxer (like his father) so he can brawl and punch, but he was also trained in ninjutsu martial arts by Stick, so he is acrobatic and can fight Ninjas like the Hand
I also feel like Mystique in the X-Men movies (Rebecca Romijin) had her own type of fighting that suited her character. She was slinky, quick, and flexible which reflects her mutant ability.
I was shocked they didnt say this since its very memorable when she fought Wolverine. When I think of unique X men fights she is the first and we really havent seen anything like it since in a superhero.
She was so much better than Jennifer Lawrence's Mystique
Absolutely agree and it was very noticeable early on.
Yeah girl you didn’t mention Rebecca Romijins Mystique. That fight where she’s wolverine to sneak into the dam and how she took down all those mercenaries???
Her fighting style is kinda slippery and sexy at the same time
I think the problem with what you said at 8:00 is that no superhero interacts with the world around them anymore, so the fighting has to be super generic to plug the bad guys in.
I think 5:49 is a far bigger problem 😂
There literally is no world to interact with, they don't use sets anymore.
@@lewismckenzie236 to be fair . It is unique only one in MCU. It does look bad thought
Domino and Shang Chi had good interactions and the fights were enjoyable because of it.
@@Watch-0w1 the MCU might have the biggest problem with it, but it isn't unique only to them, many directors opt out of practical effects for budgeting reasons, or use less of them to stretch the 200m budget as far as they can. They want to eat their cake and have it too, and the movies end up looking like hogwash as a result of it
This is probably why Dr. Strange is my favorite. Any fight scene with him just goes absolutely bonkers. Thanos vs Strange was like a wizard duel. Strange vs Spiderman was also dope and it was cool to see a fight won with some problem solving, not just punches. Strange also brings the most unique set pieces
Yeah like the vision v vision ship of Theseus is one of the best fights cause it fits the character you wouldn’t see characters like Punisher or Luke Cage doing this but for vision it works
@@kaeaedwin7937 that's only because of his power set not because they actually did anything massively creative Yes guys without flight and laser beams wont fight like guys with them
It's extremely disappointing that Dr Strange seems to forget he has a massive arsenal of abilities depending on who he is fighting... In truth, not a single avenger or villain should ever be able to come close to him ... He should be able to set up multiple defensive /offensive spells in advance that don't require hand movements allowing to escape or capture targets.... But I have only seen him do that 2x in 1 movie... I still don't understand how spiderman used math to beat magic in a dimension that Strange should have 100% control... Also magic Which is a phenomenon that literally changes universal laws based on the type of magic used.... Oh well .. cool scene I guess
@@claudewinters2091 I get what you're saying and agree. It would be cool to see our heroes actually plan for battles. Come up with ideas instead of just slamming their face into threats. The undefined limits of magic also causes trouble. Magic is either universe breaking good or weak depending on what's convenient for the writers. It do still be silly movies tho, like I don't mind spiderman winning with math. It's in character for him and shows that Dr Strange underestimated him. Its also just good fun. I don't mind a lil silliness if it leads to a good character moment
@@thomasmendoza7728 yea... Sometimes it's best to just turn your brain off and enjoy.... I get that.... I absolutely loved the Spidey vs goblin apartment fight thou .. but I was disappointed with the Spidey vs Strange fight ... Oh well.... I was overall entertained.... So yeah....
Makes me think of Avatar the Last Airbender. Each element have their own martial art and some characters such as Toph have an even more unique style. Using an identical silhouette you can distinguish their element from fighting style alone.
The martial arts in ATLA are actually just a little more diverse than they appear, too. As you mentioned, Toph uses a different style from most other earthbenders, but different regions also use different styles (the earthbending of Omashu is a bit different than Ba Sing Se, the Northern and Southern Water Tribes use variants of the same style, and I could be wrong but I think the Fire Nation royal family use their own form in addition to the standard Royal Firebender form). More experienced fighters not only use more advanced techniques, they also use moves from more advanced forms of their chosen style. And like you said, they have recognizable identities even when the individual's identity is obscured. When I heard that bending was originally going to be more like it is in early Korra- faster and whatnot, I was quite surprised because the pacing is usually pretty good in ATLA.
Silhouette being distinguishable is especially notable in the Korra openings where the benders are all previous avatars.
@@LethalLuggage "Using an identical silhouette"
@@lordbalthosadinferni4384 Blending bending styles is definitely a thing that is used by masters and experts of their native style. Uncle iroh at least theoretically uses facets of all bending styles in his own, though he's too old to really be showing off his no doubt long experience with it. A good example of a fire bender using a different style would be Jeong Jeong, whose most notable and distinguishing technique would be the fire pillars. Note how he is pretty much one of the only firebenders, if not THE only one, who actually doesn't produce fire from his body. He summons it from the ground. That's basically unheard of and the show glosses over it entirely. When doing this move, he uses a more sturdy earth nation stance, as if to truly root him to the earth and push up the pillars like an earth bender would push up a boulder (with the exception being the day of the comet, but everybody's fire bending was jacked to 11 so maybe that doesn't really count.) We also see the silhouette of the avatar (presumably roku) in the opening credits of ATLA blast fire from his hands while having a more sturdy stance, in the way of an earth bender. Keep in mind that personality also needs to be taken into account. For aang, having his go-lucky, pacifistic, evasive attitude was a massive problem for learning fire bending and more notably, earth bending. I think it's fair to say that his eventual earth bending style didn't just come from learning to overrule his personality and adopt earth bending philosophy, it also comes from blending his own style with that of toph's. After all, in the big fight between him and Ozai, we see Aang really utilize his earth bending skills to the fullest, and he uses it to throw slices of rock to Ozai with movements that are uncharacteristic of other earth benders, who seem to prefer throwing big boulders one at at a time. In this fight, Aang seems to utilize air movements while bending earth. He also has a penchant for hiding behind a wall of rock, as Aang is fundamentally somewhat of a scared character, which isn't unjustified given Ozai's threatening combat style. The point is, while each bending style has it's base philosophy and concurrent movement style; personality, experience and adaptation to other styles can mark out users that are more unique.
uh no? tiger punch vs zebra punch is still a fkin punch....... OP main problem is no one uses talk no jutsu.... wHy DoNt wE uSe OuR wOrDs gUys
Spider-man is kind of a stand-out example, because nearly everything about his way of interacting with the space during a fight is unique to him. He looks like other supers when the powers pop up in plainclothes moments (Tobey's non-fight with Flash Thompson back in the first one) but the way he dodges, his tendency to counter immediately, his use of webs to traverse that's different from speed, flight, teleportation, or super-strength leaping, his free use of walls...
I have a theory that Spiderman's powers are a perfect match for wire work and why it looks so good on camera.. "We need Spiderman to web a guy to wall" easy to do with wire work.
Spider-Man is always on the defense
Spidey knows how to use his surroundings( in his case it's walls) to his advantage,not to mention webs are pretty accurate projectiles to blind his enemies.
As others have pointed out, Marvel characters have been more inventive about how they use their powers in a fight too. Thor doesn’t just hit with his hammer, he sometimes places it on an adversary to immobilize them. Hawkeye doesn’t always aim to hit, sometimes he aims to distract so that somebody else can hit. Falcon doesn’t just use his wings to fly, sometimes he uses the wings to anchor his position. Captain America doesn’t just block with his shield, he falls on it too. It gives the impression that these characters really think through the full implications of their abilities.
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Well said
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I think that props may be the key, hammer, wings, bow, shield, giving them something to work with makes the fights more interesting than just hand to hand or laser beams
@@josefagomezschmeisser8356 You raise a good point. That also explains why Wonder Woman's fights are better than the usual DC fare, especially when she uses her golden lasso. Most DC movies remind me of classic Star Trek, where plots were invariably resolved via fist fights.
I remember seeing X2 opening day, and was absolutely blown away with the Nightcrawler scene. It was a perfect way to hook you and keep you interested throughout the entirety of the film.
You and I had similar X-periences! Yes, that opening scene with Nightcrawler had us pumped up so much it was the main thing we talked about afterwards. I couldn't wait to return watch it again to experience that powerful choreography and cinematography!
Same here. I was at the midnight premiere and the entire audience was silent during the fight and applauded at the end of the fight.
Same.. I watched it in India on tv and the opening scene was so well done.. now it's Wolverine but nightcrawler used to be my fav character back then.. I loved that scene and waited half of the movie for something like that to happen again until I fell asleep.. haha
Yeah it was good but I hated that it was Nightcrawler's only fight scene.
I rewatched that movie today and it's still one of the best superhero fight scenes ever. It still stands up today.
That's why Jackie Chan always had his own stunt team in his movies. Despite him being a underdog in the fight , and fighting using the environment is bound to get old but he keeps it interesting due to his Stunt team since he is sort of a superhero in "The Medallion" & "The Tuxedo" which were done under Hollywood production not HK one.
Jackie chan has an instantly recognizable fight style. I couldn't help but feel Simu Liu was missing such an iconic feel to his fight style especially since the character of Shang Chi was in no small part inspired by Bruce Lee, who is also instantly recognizable. I wish marvel had focused on the importance of hiring a proper martial artist rather than a somewhat generic character actor.... There are so few left who do both nowadays.
@@Ben-rz9cf yea , and this is not a nitpick or anything on Simu since he was great in movie but all u can see is a Jackie Chan/Bruce Lee imitator in him in the movie & the thing he lacks is the flair for theatric which is where Jackie Chan started from and Bruce Lee excelled in , when Simu does the same it's feels snarky or immature. Martial arts in CN was a discipline and a way of life or a performance in a theatre though it was glorified in the movies but that's what it was in reality, when westerners adopted the glorified version they became niche commodity with none of its backstory and history that is what Simu Lee embodies when u look at him as a martial artist. But after Shang-Chi he said something along lines that meant there was finally a Asian Action Star representation in superhero movies so guessed marvel was occupied that they hired a martial artist and bloated his ego to say that which prob ticked a lot of ppl off who had grown up watching JC and Bruce Lee movies making em write him off as generic martial artist actor & when Jackie Chan was the star of 2 movies made under Hollywood where he was superhero of sorts.
Jackie is pretty much superhuman in all of his movies, he has too many amazing fight scenes to pick from but ... there is some gold in Rumble in the Bronx, and The Legend of the Drunken Master.
Jackie Chan is arguably the greatest fight choreographer in the history of cinema, adding so much style to his movement and using the environment around him to facilitate his flow. Not to mention he does all his own stuntwork, sustaining countless injuries as a result. Yet he keeps on going. He's a fun and goofy person, but don't let his smiles fool you. Jackie Chan is a badass. He has more grit and guts than any actor playing any superhero ever.
I was also thinking about jacky chan and was wondering why no one employs him for super hero movies
I miss the old Daredevil show from netflix. The iconic brutal way he fought that showed him pushing through an increasing level of pain and exhaustion was one of the highlights of that show, and everyone remembers the one take hallway scenes specifically because of how brilliantly they were choreographed.
The best action movies aren't about how cool and hard the main character hits, it's about how hard they *get* hit. While there's fun cheese that doesn't follow this rule, all the best action movies see the main character eat major punishment, from the Mad Max series to John Wick. I'd argue that Captain America's cool moves are definitely memorable but the reason he's a fan favorite is he will get beaten to a bloody pulp and still "can do this all day."
@@BlazingOwnager Well said. That line/ attribute also weighed in when Steve Rodgers grabbed Thanos' hand to prevent him snapping, and when he prepared to solo Thanos' army with half a shield.
@@BlazingOwnager funnily enough, that is basically a Rocky quote
That was because of lack of budget
@@madnessarcade7447 Retarded take. The decision to allow the protagonist to dodge every single hit, and show no signs of exhaustion/effort into the fight has nothing to do with the benefits of a high budget. It's just a dumb creative choice.
Harley Quinn’s fighting style was done rather nicely in my opinion. She has the basics of brawling down, like joker does, but puts her own gymnastics/acrobatic spin on it because that’s what she used to do before being Harley Quinn. It’s evident from how much she jumps, spins, flips around in her fight scenes, using her weapons creatively as well plays into that. It’s really interesting to watch because you can tell she’s having fun being herself. That’s definitely what other superheroes need. Signature.
She was a psychologist at Arkham Asylum, psychologists don't do acrobatics. She learnt it after becoming Harley Quinn.
@@joeligma4721 so a psychologist can't have acrobatics as a hobby?
@@bRUhlomeS I mean it'd be pretty strange to see your psychologist doing flips
@@joeligma4721 people can have whatever hobbies they want, and they won't be weird for it
@@joeligma4721 In at least one version of her backstory - she was enrolled in gymnastics when she was young and was good enough to earn a scholarship to university. Then she either went to medical school and became a psychiatrist, or she got her PhD in psychology - though she could have both, or it could just be a continuity error and writers not understanding the difference between psychologist and psychiatrist. Comic book origins are multiple choice anyway, so probably doesn't matter much🤷🏻♀
The more I watch and learn about story telling - through all kinds of mediums - it seems the most important factor is that you waste nothing. The time to develop a character, the costuming, the framing of a shot, you can’t waste any opportunity to make retell your core message
I think a big part of it is in a 1.5-3 hour movie you have limited time frame to show a characters personality, especially when you’re hitting Justice League/Endgame where there’s whole teams of different characters some only having a few minutes of real screen time and a lot of it fighting. Having your characters show things about who they are as people when they’re fighting is a way to give us that will still getting to see interesting fights. It can be more than wow he can shot lasers.
@@JamienautMark2I would echo and adjust your comment by saying in a film with a large cast the limiter is devoted resources to cast personalized choreography. It's why we see characters like those in the Black Order seem intimidating in Avengers Infinity War, then turn to card board cutouts in Endgame with no characterization.
Exactly
@@JamienautMark2 3 hr is more than enough for a competent writer. Especially when, in this case, it’s way more than just 3hrs bcuz it’s huge interconnected universe with hours upon hours constantly being released
I always thought Quicksilver's personality was a way of coping with the boredom of living in a slow motion world, his character makes total sense to me.
Seeing the Daredevil season 3 fights like the Bulletin fight or the finale fight between Matt, Dex, and Fisk are really great because they show diverse fight styles. Matt is a brawler with his muay tai ropes, Dex is long range for obvious reasons, and Fisk uses his size to his advantage, focusing on slams or grapples instead. It helps make for a unique set piece that's entertaining as well as an obstacle for the protagonist to overcome and think his/her way out of.
was going to say the same thing. In a fight Fisk is just an unstoppable force of nature, he is just sheer will and determination, and he will never give up... just like his personality, he never gives up until he gets what he wants.
And then frank castle is presice, brutal, and wastes zero time
I like Harley Quinn's fighting style. It is very playful and slapstick, but also acrobatic and technical. I loved the scene when she was escaping and there were flowers erupting from the bodies instead of blood. Since she saw the blood as flowers, it signifies how she views violence as beautiful and mesmerizing. Blood doesn't scare her.
What fighting style?
@@heisenberg8083 Blue meth style 👈
Dont forget how she also employs her psychology knowledge as a supplement (and sometimes full on replacement) tp her combat skills
I’m still trying to figure out how she got superpowers in The Suicide Squad to be able to jump higher than she is tall, repeatedly.
@@bunnywithakeyboard7628 That's a thing she can do in the comics as well. I think it's explained there that its a side affect of a universal antidote given to her by poison ivy.
In Man of steel, Zod had combat experience as general and it showed in the scene where he fought Superman in the city. The way he blocked and chop hit Superman’s neck was very tactical. Same with BvS, you could tell how seasoned Batman was in that warehouse scene.
The Nightcrawler scene is still one of my favorite super hero action scenes on film. It's absolutely memorable, mental, and (as a fan of X-Men) incredibly badass
Same with me. It still looks amazing.
And XMen went from huge to forgotten.
Same here! It's fantastic.
Right there with you, except Quicksilver from Days of Future Past was incredible. It’s a tough call between those two sequences for me. Winter Soldier has the next best action sequences of a superhero film for me.
the most badass scene ever
Now that you said all of this, I remember fondly of Wesley Snipes's Blade movies. The fighting in that movie is so sleek, stylish, fashionable, unapologetically 90s, just pure awesomeness
I never really put much thought into superhero fights. I was focused more on the spectacle but watching this made me realize there’s more to it than that. There are (and should be) nuances to how each character fight and how it’s their style. This video opened my eyes.
same
In the past, action stars can actually do fight choreography like Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, Michelle Yeoh, Cynthia Luster. That's why you don't need to hide their face with shaky cam and quick cuts. Today you can cast a skinny 5-foot actor as a superhero so you need to hide their face in 90% of the fight scenes because they can't actually do the moves.
I don’t understand how the Warehouse fight in BvS didn’t made you connect with the character but Cap in the ship on Winter Soldier did. I mean, it shows his tactics, awareness and ruthlessness all at once, maybe some bias clouded your judgment in a few cases. Other than that is a great vid, food for thought, indeed
I know right? The warehouse scene was a distinctly Batman fight.
Maybe part of the problem is what Moviebob said in his "Really That Bad" series - it's a good fight, but it isn't set up properly by the film so the emotion doesn't land. It's supposed to be a triumphant return to Batman being a defender and avenger of the innocent, not a vindictive brander and punisher. But the film hasn't given us any hint of what he was like before Robin was killed, so it's just a fight. I agree it's a good fight on its own, but the surroundings drain a lot of the impact.
Ben Affleck Batman is underrated in action scenes, I still have beef that this Batman so easily kills even when the Dark Knight Returns comics he was based on did no such thing and even outwardly stated guns are the weapons of cowards, alongside the fact Batman in mainline simply hates them and vowed never to use one. But like the fight scenes were nice and heavy, its a more brawling and powerhouse Batman compared to the more acrobatic one I used to see in the animated The Batman where he slips and slides and does rapid kicks and punches more like a ninja or martial artist. Or in Justice League where he relies more on gadgets and adopting enemy weapons to keep up with the more super powered or monstery enemies.
@@raymondingles8335 MovieBlobert
@@kennethsatria6607 with that kind of body, it's harder to jump around doing acrobatics stuff. animation can do that because it doesn't have limitation.
They all fight the same because they are all me.
Aside, I must say you glanced over Harley Quinn. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like they depict her acrobatic/gymnast abilities well in her fighting style
They just dissed all of DC for no reason 😂
@@malachilining2730 Why ofc if it's DC then they always getting the diss unless it's The Dark Knight
I think you kind of missed Shang chi his whole plot progression was about him changing his fighting style from the more aggressive standard style to the style of his mother
he also missed entire plot of wonder woman 1 and forget WW never had her full power until her fight with ares. he comperes a clip from ZSJL(which happens almost 100 years after WW) and a clip from her first movie where she didn't even discovered her powers yet.
Shang chi is crap
That's a good observation; Shang Chi was trained in martial arts to kill, but his mother's martial arts is more about simply beating the opponent rather than killing him or her.
My favorite has always been the way Cap fought in the MCU. The way he threw his shield around and got it back while oftentimes having to muscle through opponents with more powers than him was always creative, varied, fun and impressive to witness. Plus, grounded fights are always more intense than aerial fights due to the more immersive feeling of weight and impact. Second would be Black Panther. He fought with more intensity and efficiency.
Joker from the Dark Knight was one of my favorites, he fought Batman twice in the movie, and both times he fought dirty, using hidden shoe blades, attack dogs, and human shields against him. The Joker is often underestimated in terms of combat prowess, but when your arch-nemesis is Batman, you tend to learn a thing or two.
Shang Chi really impressed me with the fight cinematography especially the bus fight
That scene genuinely felt like it belonged in an action movie. Wish they kept it grounded and focused on the family in the 3rd act instead of turning it into the same old Avengers lets fight a CGI army mess
@@Prince36300 yeah. Otherwise I did love the movie and I hope Shang Chi as an ip continues on to do well and improves
Yeah their argument against Shang chi not having a distinct fighting style is pure bs
Yes, describing Shang Chi as "just kung fu" seems unfair - it's technically true, but there's a lot of definition of different styles within kung fu to specific characters and situations.
The lighting put me off, all I could see was green screen and it might not even be that much greenscreen at all. But that flat Marvel lighting ruined it for me. And of course the story.
Honestly, Charlie Cox's Daredevil is peak with him appearing to be nearly surgical, improvisational or opportunistic depending on where he is fighting and how he's faring. Also, all of the Spider-Men we've had in the last 20 plus years. And I rank them in order of appearance for them each having very distinct fighting styles.
This was about movies not shows
@@madnessarcade7447 The video description and the content discussed stated that the discussion was about the cinematic interpretations of these characters. I think believing the live action shows should fall under that category is more than understandable
I really liked how when Black Adam wakes up, he fights the mercs like a alien warship. Slowly moving and hitscanning fools with lightnings. Then he goes to jabroni superman, when the others costumed clowns show up.
I think "The Batman (2022)" did well in this field. Basically every single fight scene from that movie is memorable.
I'd say Wonder Woman and Batman both have very distinctive styles when taking on multiple foes. Wonder woman employs a lot of slides and literally throws her enemies around. While Batman style is clearly seen in the warehouse fight, he brawls and uses his grappling hook
I feel like Batman should do alot more in a group fight then just Brawl and Grappling hook. He should be allowed to go all our in terms of Gadjets, he's well known for his creative inventions so making his aproach to a group fight to brawl it out feels like a waste of potential. And that's not getting into his 1 on 1 fights which tend to be the more significant one's where you might expect to see more of a character not less.
@@thekey0123 Well, that's 50-year-old, angry, burned-out Batman, in a hurry. His style has probably gotten a lot more basic than it once was, back when he was more athletic and "playful".
@Thekey0123 he used his batarangs, and his explosive poppers as well
I feel like he completely ignored the watchtower scene in the first Wonder Woman movie where she uses her lasso to, well, lasso people around but also does the shield manouver with Steve to propel her to the tower and then to smash through. In her second movie they did try to do something with the lasso but I feel like it largely didn't really work.
Yeah this video just completely overlooked eveeyth8ng in WW and BvS and even MoS where the entire fight is basically Supermaj trying to stop Zod without killing him. Go rewatch the no man's land scene into the village in WW and tell me it isn't distinct 🙄 Batman uses his batwing, grapple, batarangs, grenades, crates, and the literal floor. Tbh I think whoever wrote this video just doesn't like DC 😂
Man of steel had the best depiction of super powered people fighting.
The Nightcrawler fight scene in X2 was amazing. It highlights in a really good way how powerful a person with teleportation powers would be.
As bad and mediocre as Dr Strange 2 was, the magic fight scene between Dr Strange and Sinister Strange was pretty wild.
Facts, and I actually loved that movie, it felt like for better (and for worse) they really branched out with creativity. Riami did a good job imo
@@lvnar5734 Raimi directed it well but the movie still sucked, imo
Raimi had like no control for probably 80% percent of the movie it went through recuts and reshoots
Sam Raimi's direction was great; the horror elements; the nostalgia of his earlier work; But - the comedy was off, killing some characters felt so wasted and the fight between Doctor Strange and Sinister Strange was boring. The musical notes? C'mon.
@@lvnar5734I am with you.
The Saving Martha scene was amazingly choreographed and was very Batman. A brutal combination several martial arts.. and he got shot and stabbed, it did have stakes..
The characters in Birds of Prey have distinct fighting styles. IIRC, the cop leans towards boxing, the Canary seems to use Taekwondo, Harley's is kinda unorthodox and very acrobatic, and the Huntress reminds me of John Wick a little.
This is an amazing analysis of the superhero genre that I have never thought of before. Props to you.
I also think it is important to have clearly defined powers and have the characters work around their own strengths and weaknesses. If you do that, a unique fighting style for each hero happens on its own. Plus it feels a lot more realistic and the audience might be able to tell which way the fight is going better. If one character is clearly trying to keep their distance and use their power from range and the other fighter manages to close the gap, everybody should immediately be able to tell, that this is probably a turning point in the fight. I also think, that fights that are won through clever use of their power and using the correct strategy for the situation is much more satisfying than "good guy just punched harder I guess". Good examples of this would be JoJos Bizarre Adventures or the Cradle series by Will Wight.
My favorite display of power was Blink in X Men: Days of Future Past. Using portals to fight is incredibly cool and her character needs to have a comeback in some future marvel property.
Did this video just downplay the Batman warehouse fight scene.....his fighting style showed how brutal and merciless his iteration of batman is....and the combination of martial arts show how much he knows how to fight.
One video that I saw, which helped a lot with my fighting writing in prose, was a video where professional wrestler Al Snow was giving a lecture to some trainees, and explaining why 'finishing moves' exist within professional wrestling. To summarise: They exist because the audience knows that it's their killshot. They know why a wrestler who uses a leg based submission is attacking an opponent's leg. They can see when a wrestler is setting up for their special suplex or strike or whatever, and it can inform the back and forth pace of the match. It's something that should factor into the match's storytelling and inform the audience of how that wrestler wrestles. When I heard that (in way more detail from Al, obviously), it made me realise the best way to think about writing a fight scene. What do your characters want? How do they intend to get it? What is their victory condition, and what tools do they have at their disposal to get to it? Understand these things, understand your characters, understand why they are fighting and what the stakes are for both of them, and this can inform *how* they fight each other.
ty for mentioning scarlet witch’s hand gestures, I remember seeing them for the first time and being so hypnotized because I’ve never seen anything like it, usually when heroes had telekinetic powers like her they’d just point their hands and boom it happens (kinda like what you said with the xmen section) But for her it really looked like she was molding it, harnessing it, tossing it, etc. it was beautiful I remember seeing an interview showing a dance choreographer solely for SW too it’s just neat to see.
I think you've explained why I switch off during some fights scenes. It's not because I don't like action movies it's that I like my action scenes to tell a story, to say something about the character.
The best hand to hand fight between two clearly very strong people in recent years has been goblin vs Spidey in no way home.
Oh man, it's wild to be reminded that the Goblin formula was the same as the Spider mix, just not filtered. Getting bodyslammed _through_ floors? I lost my damn *mind* watching that go.
harley's fighting style in birds of prey was pretty unique
We can only hope that videos like this reach people who are actually in charge of these movies
The Russos said they intentionally updated Cap's fighting style to show that he'd been training in between the first and second film.
Daredevil - the Netflix series was the ONLY show / cinematic adaptation which did absolute justice to the fighting style of the character, along with the injuries, the risks et al. And despite no superpowers - it was nothing short of spectacular
really good topic for a video and well explained, i hadn't really thought about any of this i just sorta understood it in the back of my mind but you hit the nail on the head regarding it
Well that’s definitely one thing that’s overlooked like add the personality to their fighting styles and incorporate that into their characters as well. Great video
Other than the really obvious choises like batman or spiderman, I love the fighting style for harley quinn. Besides the spectacle of knowing that margot robbie did almost all of those stunts herself in the first suicide squad in the worst outfit possible, but its simultaneously a very wacky but realistic way of fighting. She leans more towards firearms and blunt force objects. She doesnt rely on brute strength, which would look kinda dumb cause her arms look like noodles. But she throws her weight around and uses creative tactics. Not consistent tactics but they're tactics. Theres always an element of chaos to it. I love her so much y'all
I appreciate this under 10 minute video for highlighting something that is interesting in this genre
The "and maybe Magneto" is entirely due to the acting chops of Sir Ian McKellen. The subtle ways he moves and emotes really makes it look like he can FEEL the metal as he's manipulating it. From the effortless wrist-flicks of tossing something small aside, to the visceral joy of holding iron after so long when he escapes the plastic prison, to the powerful strain of lifting the entire Golden Gate Bridge. It works perfectly with his backstory as shown in First Class, where we learn his power doesn't come easily: it's deeply emotional and personal.
I think Batfleck is the exception in the DCEU. Batman does have a unique movement way within the group.
And Superman.
@@HoodedSpidey 😶now that's cap
@@sgn4354Wonder woman is VERY inconsistent, sometimes she can fly, sometimes has super speed, sometimes his bracelets are super powerful, sometimes she doesnt even use them
@@HoodedSpideySuperman fights exactly like Zod and all kryptonians (which would make sense except for the part Superman was never trained in krypton), also, fights like Shazam, and like, Black adam
@@jamz8785 so he fights as if he has super godly strength.
batman's warehouse scene was pretty character specific
It would have been perfect if he turned down all the lights, while we the audience are seeing one of the henchman’s night vision perspective who’s just standing still being scared.
@@HappyLlama8373 Ah. Batman: Assault on Arkham
@ 07:00 That's Chad Stahelski, the John Wick director, who Yuen Woo-pin is talking to and explaining his concept for the fight choreography. He and David Leitch ( the co-creator of the John Wick movies), both worked on the Matrix trilogy and learn from Yuen Woo-pin how to choreograph, shoot & edit a fight scene.
This was eye opening. I never really thought about the character shining through with action
yall making up answers before you even watch the video ☠️
are they wrong tho? cgi is expensive and creativity is not exactly a key ingredient in the disney soup
The best superhero fighting style to me goes to Spider-Man, more specifically the Amazing Spider-Man run with Andrew Garfield. It's just awesome to see Spider-Man jumping around, using his webs in clever ways and playing with the villains, which all ties to his character, a strong agile and pretty smart dude
Movement that express the characters. That's totally sth new to learn. Thanks alot for sharing this insight. Very very nice way seeing it.
I just followed them like 3 months ago and it was the greatest decision. Every video is a banger. Thanks Nerdstalgic
Daredevil, the Punisher, and Iron Fist were all great examples of this. I'm glad at least 2 of them are coming back, I hope they maintain their individuality.
Please leave that busted Netflix iron fist out of this AK the show with some of the worst fighting on the planet.
@@jordanwhite352 I literally could not care less what you claim to think.
@@ryandegrave8978 You should if you actually want something good
@@jordanwhite352 That makes no sense.
@@ryandegrave8978 simply look up any fans or critic reviews of ironed fist and that should tell you everything why everyone pretends to ignore that that series existed
I really think you undersold the fighting styles in post-endgame Marvel. The Eternals all had extremely unique powers and they fought differently, including IMO the best use of super speed in a live action superhero movie. Moon Knight’s movement is unlike anything I’ve seen in Marvel, he’s like classic Batman with the leaping from tall buildings at night stuff, and the whole turning into different personalities thing mid-fight is unique too. Khamala’s “stretchy” arms and ability to “fly” by making solid platforms to jump on is totally unique, and her movement throughout the series emphasizes again and again that she’s just a kid, and she’s very uncertain with how she uses these powers. She-Hulk has flavors of Hulk’s movements in her fighting style, but with a twist (instead of one big clap leading to a sonic boom, lots of rapid claps causing a wave of energy). Sam’s new Captain America brings both Falcon’s wings and the Captain’s shield into the fight, showing how this *is* Captain America, but he doesn’t have super strength and so he’s going to fight differently than before, with more gadgets and flying, and probably more talking than fighting anyway. Wanda is still Wanda but her movements got more and more perverse as MoM went on. Strange is still Strange, Spider-Man is still Spider-Man, both of them are completely unique. Hell, even in Thor: Love and Thunder, Thor and Jane clearly fight differently, despite having the exact same powers. Sooo…yeah. *Do* all superheroes fight the same?
> The Eternals all had extremely unique powers and they fought differently They possessed mighty abilities, like the power of boredom and incoherency!
@@BlazingOwnager i like Thena and Makkari's fight choreography tho.
Great video bro! I feel like this issue stems further than just superhero movies, but to modern block-busters as a whole. Fighting styles have stagnated so much, and powers feel hella similar because so many characters use their abilities in uncreative ways. Kinda why I prefer animated action over “live action” stuff
They have a good opportunity with Moon Knight. He too has only had one outing, so he’s not as defined yet. But, in some comic book iterations, Moon Knight, being an avatar to a god whose origin involves literally dying and coming back to life, fights very self-destructively. He’ll take those hits, so long as he’s the last one standing.
Hmm... this gives me much to think about as I am currently in the middle of designing/writing a science fiction series with over powered super hero protagonists. I definitely want them to be unique in how they deal with conflicts and fights and what not. Though I suppose it is a bit more difficult to do so in written form than on film. I must use precise words to paint my characters in the reader's mind. But your video does give me inspiration and a direction in which to take my future writing; so thanks very much for that.
Even if the second movie isn't all that great, I adore the way Spider-Man moves in Amazing Spider-Man 1 and 2 because he moves like... you know, a spider.
My favorites gotta be my boy Daredevil. The brutal mix of boxing and martial arts, coupled with the fact that he visibly gets tired the longer he’s going
Charlie Cox as Daredevil and Wesley Snipes as Blade. Daredevil could be ultra efficient and precise thanks to his sonar-like ability, but he was also a conflicted, frustrated and angry character, so he often fought with unrelenting aggression and reckless abandon. Blade was just the coolest guy in the room at all times and it translated perfectly into his fighting style.
You got my like when talking about The Matrix!! Nice segment and good point!
I think Moon Knight is the most different fighting style we’ve gotten in phase 4. He also seems to be in his First Avenger
You also get Marc's brutality and skill alongside Steven bouncing and bobbing like an amateur boxer 😅 it's like a two-for-one!
@@keenanchandler2469 Yeah. The diversity of the fighting really tells a story all on its own
I must say, X-men Evolution show was spot on in giving characters similar or different approaches to fighting choreography.
I'd say that the character with the most unique fighting style is Daredevil. In almost all superhero fights they never get tired or exhausted. From the start of the fight till the end of the fight, they'll never be out of breath. Daredevil is the only show where the hero gets tired and exhausted and it then shows in his fighting style. He starts relying more heavily on his strength then his technique, and he literally starts throwing his body around like a rag doll. He is also a master of using the environment to his advantage (there's a reason why his hallway fight scene is so infamous). Not to mention his variety in fighting styles. In one fight he'll be boxing, the next he'll be using kick, the next he throws stun butyons, the next he'll be throwing magazines and guns at people etc. (That is like the first 5 episodes of the show). If superhero fights want to become more unique, they should take a page out of Daredevil's book.
i’m glad you mentioned nightcrawler on X-2 because as a kid that scene was stuck in my head i love the choreography and the use of his powers
What about Storm's spinny blurnado thing in Last Stand? I thought that was one of the more distinctive expressions of character ability in the X-Men movies.
Wonder Woman's laso was used very well, the one thing everyone liked about BvS was batman having an Arkham style fight scene, Shazam was a child and didn't know how to fight but it was always satisfying to see billy trap someone on top of him and say Shazam, leaving things out on purpose is how essays are written but doesn't feel sincere online.
I really enjoyed this video 😌
The way beast fights in the last stand should’ve been mentioned. One of my favs.
I feel like Makkari from the Eternals is a pretty good example of displaying power from someone who is otherwise completely weaponless. Her speed isn’t just used to make her more powerful, the speed is its own form of combat. Makkari uses her speed to break the sound barrier which can both deafen and knock back her opponents, she uses speed to make it seem like she’s in one place when she’s in another, she dashes up, faking a punch, then spins to toss dirt/sand to blind the opponent, creates vortexes with tornados, and more. Honestly, she had the coolest moments in the whole movie (aside from the Tiamut and Arishrem imagery which was sick as well).
Makkari was so cool in that film - it felt like the first refreshing take on a speedster since Dash & Quicksilver.
@@keenanchandler2469You didn't even like Sonic in his movies?
@@EclipsingTNT I loved both Sonic films, but his speed scene in the first is essentially the "Time in a Bottle" scene feat. more chilli dogs. 🌭🌭🌭
Lack of imagination?
Probably
This is a very good point. I'd never thought about it before.
I actually really like Black Adam's fighting style, it's a lot more direct and violent than the rest. With Superman and the rest, you can see that they're fighting to knock people out or hospitalize them. With Black Adam, you can really see that he's trying to put his targets down permanently.
The Spiderman/Doc Ock fight in Spiderman 2 is still one of the very best.
Always thought Cap's shield should slice every muggle in half, glad MoM got that right
Vibranium absorbs energy and releases it as kinetic force. While the shield in the comics is unique (an amalgam of vibranium, adamantium, and a "mystery metal" implied to be uru), the MCU shield is pure vibranium. The reason it bounces around like a Nerf ball is because it absorbs the impact with the object, then projects it back; if it's a solid object, like a tree, the tree barely moves and shoves the shield back. Hitting a person, it wouldn't cut the person in half, it would produce a concussive force which causes the person and the shield to push each other away.
Great video sir
Hollywood could take a page out of My hero academia’s boon in terms getting the characters to use their specific powers in more specific ways. A suggestion that I can think off the top of my head is for Black panther to use the kinetic charge/discharge in smaller ways like block punches and re directing them instantly. Out of all the superhero combat styles I like my favourite has to be: frozone from incredibles because of his use of ice platforms to keep mobile in a fight
Deadpool is one of my favorites, though that's mostly because he also pauses and talks often. I like Black Widows & Black Panther, would've loved to see a fight between them, powers aside. Cap + Bucky vs. Tony might've been one of the best fight sequences.
I would argu that Kang in Ant-Man 3 had a fairly distinct style, portrayed with a specific brutality.
Equilibrium's gun kata, especially the very first firefight in the movie
Completely side stepping and overlooking the unique contributions of Batman’s tactical and inspired fighting style in BVS. Both in his warehouse battle and fight with Superman.
Speaking of The Matrix, I always loved how while all the human's end up with more Asian fighting styles, the agents/Smith fight with this blunt straightforward Western style. It gives the humans this more thoughtful feeling to their movement and the agents a sense of just being superpowerful brutes.
the agents in the matrix are using slimmed down versions of karate and judo, which only appears western due to literally a decade of effectively whitewashing and dumbing it down before it. the wachowskis and woo ping yuen made the choice as story reinforcement, no doubt, but they're all technically just different asian martial arts, with some additional warring nationality predispositions...
i'd have to diasagree in regards to Batfleck and Supes, I feel they're both shown to fight in ways that show their character, Supes is less skilled but focused on the hits, so you see the fact that he's not combat trained, while Batfleck is shown to be tactical and a brawler, on those two i'd say you do see their fighting style relating to who they are
“It’s just Kung Fu.” A clearly specific, special , martial art and fighting style that’s exclusively utilized by only one character in the MCU.
I was naming a couple more for the X-Men part but I totally agree there is definitely a lack of individuality in fight sequences John Wick does a great job the Bourne Series and Taken are so reliant on shakycam we can't see HOW you fight not necessarily who
Deadpool, Harley Quinn, Punisher, Daredevil, and Nightcrawler all had pretty innovative fighting styles in my opinion
I liked how Daredevil and Punisher weren't afraid to take a pounding while dishing one out. That emphasizes the realism of their characters being just a bit more than an average human
I think you really undersold the action in Shang-Chi. That opening bus fight was unlike anything in any superhero film before, and there's a half dozen other amazing and distinctive action sequences in the movie. Shang-Chi fights more fluidly and acrobatically than any other hero, using his environment in creative ways. He's probably the most distinctive superhero fighter out there.
Meh, it was mostly CGI on that bus with him being rubbery half the time and takes you out of it The bamboo fight was way better
@@ninjanibba4259 If you watch the making of, it really wasn't. The bus isn't really rolling down the street, but the interior was largely real. I just feel like this video didn't acknowledge the amazing work Simu put to become the best action performer in the MCU.
@@fengusburnt yet no one talks about it, if it was truly special, it would have been impactful As it is, it's nothing more than another MCU product with ok action
@@ninjanibba4259 That's absurd.
ive said for the longest that spiderman is one of the few superheros that has a unique fighting style that is pretty much always adhered to. He is a super agile guy who jumps around, flinging webs, using swinging or jumping strikes + he's the original quipster who talks smack to get in his villain's heads. A lot of other characters even in their animated counterparts do not have distinct styles. Its hodge podge martial arts or brawling or laser beam shooting, and dont get me wrong, all those things can look super cool too, but they need to be built up right for it to work.
Captain America's shield throw based combat is my favorite. I like the Thor hammer spin on it in Endgame. Wish the character was still in the series.
This is why I loved Shang Chi and the Musical Notes battle in MoM, they felt fresh and that's tough by this point