Making 35kpl a reality - Maruti's plans to go big with hybrids | Deep Drive Podcast | Autocar India
At a time when rivals are betting entirely on EVs, Maruti Suzuki has chalked out plans to go big with hybrids. Hormazd Sorabjee and Sergius Barretto discuss the rationale and the story behind the news.
0:00 - Introduction
1:44 - The different type of hybrids
4:00 - Will the EV craze sustain?
7:51 - Why Maruti can make hybrids a success
9:20 - Maruti hybrids coming soon
10:28 - What's stopping Toyota and Honda
15:36 - Going hybrid in an EV world
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Have been using Hybrids since 2015. My Camry regularly returned 17 to 19 kmpl and now my Hycross returns about 19 to 21 kmpl regularly. No range anxiety. No stress about charging. Smooth, quiet, efficient petrol engine that isnt expensive to maintain either. The Camry came with a 3 year warranty for the battery but the Hycross comes with a 8 year warranty which greatly boosts confidence in the product.
But both Camry and Hycross are above 30 lakh cars and rightly so. It simply makes no sense for cars below 25 lakhs over electric cars. Why push hybrid when EVs are helping us all transition to a clean future now? Government is doing the right thing by making hybrids more expensive to EVs. They should do the same for pure ICE too
I would like to bring some points to the notice. 1) Suzuki launched hybrids in 2011 or 2012 in Japan. This is 2024 here in India and on planet earth. 2) R C Bhargava or Maruti Suzuki once said Hybrids are unaffordable to Indians. If those vehicles good average per litre, persons with heavy usage would have brought them and over the years technology could have got affordable. Why are iPhones sold in India ? 3) Now that EV's are taking over they are bringing an old technology to us. 4) I have been hearing and reading the news Maruti is going to Swift and Dzire hybrids. This has been couple of years. 5) MoRTH ministry said Inida will have double the number of vehicles in another 10-15 years, Why are keijidosha (Light Cars) with 660cc engines (hybrids as well) are not being launched here in India. Only big SUV's. Sedans are vanishing. We have to buy what the manufacturer is offering. Why the hurry now ? only five to six hybrids are available now.
Currently hybrid attract 40% gst making it highly overpriced. Untill and unless taxes doesn't come down it doesn't make sense to pay that 3/4 lakh extra for hynrid.
If GoI had kept GST around 12% we could have leap frogged into less carbon emitting nation at least in automotive sector. Throttling of a good product by GoI.
@@VijaygKamatnitin gadkari has asked finance ministry to reduce gst on strong and Plug in hybrids to 12% . + government is refraining to give FAME 3 subsidy and instead go on PLI on Ev and other automotive tech like hybrids
Next topic can be why Suzuki sells unsafe cars in India when they are the largest manufacturer in India. Don’t they feel socially responsible? Why can’t they just make stable chassis and give 6 airbags, esc, traction control, etc as standard across all their cars.. The entire Indian car market will become superior in terms of safety…Why does Maruti need Government to step in everytime and force a change
I don't think these words are suitable, but don't you understand this simple thing, govt itself don't care for people..can't govt make it mandatory for companies to make all cars atleast 4 star ?
As long as people will buy,they will sell 😂😂😂😂
They Are Looteras
New generation maruti cars safe please wait for Bharat ncap results
Airbags alone don't save you. The structure & chassis srength is even more important marutis body strength is equivalent to a tin can
Series hybrid engine does not even required 3 cylinders. 2 cylinders are enough for engine balancing and efficiency point of view. It also decreases engine size and capacity.
This 35 and 40 kmpl from Hybrids is amazing. Remember just 30 years ago, the 100 cc motorbikes used to give us such mileage. It is really something if a car like a Grand Vitara can give that kind of mileage!
most efficient petrol generator produce 2.5 units of electricity per liter of petrol. i don't see how can maruti gets that high of mileage with a 2.5 kwh battery with no plug in charge option. they should launch a car with at least 20 kwh battery . that can give 200 km of pure ev range. so you only use petrol when you are going for long distance . a car like that will reduce my fuel consumption by 80%.
My Ind Suzuki gave 13 kmpl.😢
@@TheJohn222222Well put. 80% usage for most people is intra city.
Hybrids will be better option anyday.. When compared to Normal Petrol or Diesel engines.. In terms of Mileage and the no of carbon foot print that is reduced in terms of pollution.... But for the Enthusiastic driving this will not be option though.. And the battery replacement of the Hybrid is also very cost efficient when compared to Pure EV... Hardly between 1-1.5Lakhs for the battery replacement for hybrid...
Any technology that can be used to improve performance can be used to improve efficiency and vice versa. Haven’t you seen the hybrid models from Porsche, Ferrari and McLaren? It’s just that down the line, nobody wants a hybrid that’s tuned for performance.
Problem is how complex these Hybrids are they are 10x more complex
Nah hybrids has only 1-2 kwh battery only . And market cost of battery is 10000/kwh
@@zenjm6496 they can do it.. But for our Indian roads... That much power is not useful... Comparingly there is a large amount of vehicles nowadays.. So better to maintain safe drive
Maruti has murdered Btezza Lxi and Vxi by removing Smart Hybrid but kept the same price.This is utterly shameless business.😢
Just to point out a small but a very important nuance of this podcast - the fact that Autocar India has been in the business of auto-journalism for more than two decades now shows their prowess in producing motivated but crisp content. Not to compare but MotorInc by two of my favorite auto journos, too have a podcast, although informative, I find their videos too long and a bit scattered in their ideas and thoughts. Hormazd Sorabjee and the team have done an excellent job in putting this new lineup of episodes together. I would love Autocar India to also grow out to make more long-term vehicle reviews and take genuine ownership review videos as well. Good job, already interested in watching more content on Suzuki's diesel mishandling, Nissan's future in India, Honda's weird strategy in India, Toyota and its tryst with the budget car market, and possible Mitsubishi and Ford re-enterance in India, etc
How about the shift from the 1.5 Diesel developed one year before but discontinued in 2019.
How would series hybrid do in hilly areas?
Sir this type of system used by Indian railway in their diesel locomotive
Minus charging system
True many diesel locomotives use the same principle
@sergiusbarretto I guess all of the diesel locomotives use the parallel hybrid system
@@utkarshpahujaI'm not an expert on trains but from what Ive read it's a series system, the engine is used to generate electricity and does not power the wheels
Nice Podcast, When is Toyota going to launch Toyota Prius Prime in India ?
Not anytime soon. Toyota always puts out older vehicle models in India... as if it's an afterthought.
I don't know why hybrid didn't adopted by Indian industry earlier. It's much older and proven tech. Don't know why Indian government is chasing after EV tech.
Emissions...cough cough emissions. India ranks #3 having the dirtiest air quality, Maruti Toyota will make us #1!🤣
HOW MUCH KM IT RUNS CONSTANTLY AND NON-STOP ?
Very nice session. I guess this was the first one. Loved every second of it. Thanks Hormazd, Sergius and ACI team. I firmly believe in hybrids. More so after knowing about the environmental impact from the Toyota 1:6:90 study.
Thank you
So, in a mild hybrid, the engine cannot charge the battery. Does that mean, after the battery gets discharged, which it will eventually, then the battery system (the mild hybrid tech) stops working, & we are just carrying it around? 🧐🤷♂️ Can anyone explain??
I'm a diesel fan for power and mileage but as I live in the NCR, I chose strong Hybrid Vitara last year. It is a good replacement for diesel in efficiency and almost at par in power (except the diesel grunt). I think Maruti is playing greatly in this transition.
They are transitioning like 90 year old man competing in Olympics with 20 years old man. I want flood of strong hybrids from Maruti.
Maruti should use plastic chassis instead of steel. Also they can use bicycle tyres. All this will reduce the cost more and give 40kmpl
Ha ha. Shut it
In early '90s Maruti was called match stick box cars because of their build quality. Light to increase mileage. In fact they should launch models with carbon fibre chassis and body panel, for those who can afford then average can be 46-48 per litre.
In fact you are the fool. You fall for marketing and hype rather than realities. Majority of marutis entry level customers upgrade from two wheelers. Do these customers worry about safety rating of maruti or safety upgrade from two wheelers ? If you deny them the opportunity to buy Maruti cars or if you make 4 star and above mandatory. A large portion of these people will have to keep using two wheelers. You decide which is safer ?
What are the regular servicing costs for the different hybrid setups ? Thank you
Almost none. Maruti gives 8 years of warranty for the battery
In terms of size of Suzuki as a brand they can invest in hybrid for now to cater the EV transition and can also shift their investments towards the complete EV platform as they have Volume to serve but comparatively smaller brands can't do the same.
Great insights..!! Looking forward to more such podcasts!!
Thank you
What about plugin hybrid? No one talk about it. It's better than ev & hybrid also
True. But it's very pricey too. I would definitely go for a plug in hybrid if available so that I am relieved of the range anxiety issue with a normal EV.
Finally, the beginning of Podcast shows from Autocar!
What is difference between Grand vitara mild hybrid vs strong hybrid in terms of technology. Is mild hybrid has parallel hybrid technology And strong hybrid based on series- paraller hybrid technology ?
Yes that's essentially it. In the mild hybrid GV and the motor only assists, so it's a mild parallel hybrid . In the GV strong hybrid it's a series -parallel system as the motor can assist, drive independently and the engine can go into a charging mode too
Mild hybrid is a fraud committed by Maruti to pocket the subsidy that was provided before it was removed. This is the reason government increased GST on hybrids. Mild hybrids do not provide any noticeable difference in fuel consumption
I wish this discussion had also dwelt on a series "range extender" vehicle that combines electric with mix-petrol. While this was not stated explicitly, I think the petrol engine being referred here is pure petrol. If Suzuki is predicting 35 to 40 kpl with series involving simple petrol that has a certain cost implication, what could it be if we look at an immediate future involving petrol + ethanol with, say, a 60% - 40% ratio of petrol and ethanol? Hypothetically, if the expected price of such a mix could be 25% to 40% less per liter for a customer while Suzuki still holds on to its stated promise of 35-40 kpl in its series with regular petrol cars, that could be an even bigger incentive for customers to vote for this engine format and change the market dynamics. Something to think about.
The hybrids eat up a lot of boot space. Will series hybrid have the same downside ?
Wonderful infermative conversation thanks
Thank you
What about Mitsubishi and PHEV.?
Really good podcast 💯
Thank you
Plug and charge-able hybrids makes more sense. Where we can use electric mode + petrol mode with out range fear
Hope it's CVT transmission.
What is your take on Green Hydrogen as a sustainable fuel in India. If issues like storage and transport can be sorted, can this be a good alternative to a Hybrid/EV? An EV can only be seen as efficient if you are not charging on the grid, ie using Solar or some alternative. Hybrids are surely the way to go in the foreseeable future, given our traffic, charging infrastructure, etc.
Nicely covered. What is the future of plug-in hybrid in India. Or is it that the series will outshine others.
Government must consider gst reduction for hybrid
Nitin Gadkari ji has already requested FM Nirmala Sitharaman to bring down GST to 12% for Hybrid cars
Yes... But the TATA and Mahindra are opposing it strongly that Hybrids should not given any special tax consideration... Beacuse their market share for EV's will go down... This is such a shitty game by Tata and Mahindra
@@mohnishkambleto 12% ??? That will change the whole Indian market with more people shifting to hybrids
Hi Hormozd, Just fantastic analysis like always, still remember sipping tea and clicking pictures of the Royal Enfield, that is a legendary subject to be discussed some times while having tea.
Amazing thoughts Hormad following you for past 25 years, Sourcing knowledge in auto industry thank you.
Why Plug-in hybrid is not promoted? It has battery which can be charged and driven purely on battery without using fuel at all. Good for city daily commute. And, it has IC engine to remove range anxity.
Series parallel should also have regenerative braking that will further increase range. Can also use turbo GDI engine. Range will be huge.
Why are we not looking at plug in hybrids
Toyota should bring their rav4 plug in hybrid to India
Hycross hybrid with ethanol will be enough for rav4 hope the bring it.
That would cost 55 lacs if brought
Hi people what are your opinion on diesel engines will the exist in upcoming two decades because of I believe that teachers are still very good at efficiency and high speed cruising , please do share your opinions
At 35kmpl, the cost per km will start equalling EVs using fast charging. So highway cruising costs might be same
Will have to see how it pans out, I haven't seen many hybrids cross the 21kmpl mark in steady cruise
Why in India non of the car makers are launching Plug-in Hybrid?
Why do Petrol needed to power Engine to generate electricity for battery? They should think of Hybrid there as well, CNG/Ethanol/petrol
Hybrids are superb but the premium at the moment for strong hybrid is too much. One need to have real long kms before one gets break even. Hopefully that comes down further forward
How much will these baleno and fronx hybrids cost
World over OEMs are compressing price difference between petrol and hybrid cars, after all these years.. because of competitive pressure from EVs. You can clearly that margins are lower for Hybrids compared to petrol cars. What happens if battery prices fall further?
Nice topic,hybrid should be consider main stream auto power and need plug in hybrid tech,hope diesel hybrid also soon available
I’m waiting for Maruti vitara segment but with e80 car with series hybrid system
Hybrids exist to meet the Cafe norms. neither they have zero local emissions..nor they have top end power like diesel. For frequent highway runs make sense for some use case...but for city use BEV is the way to go. One pedal driving, instant torque, zero emission, dead silent, zero vibrations, zero maintenance and running costs. Maruti is pushing hybrids to delay the transition to BEV like all sleeping Japanese giants who has been caught napping. How else will Maruti mint money from servicing? Coz there is no money in serving an Ev.
Why aren't manufacturers looking at flex fuel engines ?
I second the thought mentioned in the Video, after hell lot Brain Storming (on EVs, Diesel, CNG, Petrol) I recently bought Maruti's Smart Hybrid Car ❤
Superb discussion from auto journalist masters with such indepth analysis of Hybrids scope ahead after General Assembly Election 2024. What are CAFE norms along with phase - 3 coming up in 2025 affect strong hybrids to carry forward or EV, Flex fuel and hydrogen power vehicles remain relevant ahead. Make a discussion on this in next vlog of in depth.
so hondaCity is series hybrid like the upcoming maruti hybrids?
Honda City has a Series-Parallel Hybrid. The best, but the most expensive option.
but, but i vouch for plug in hybrids when will such come at a decent price in india with a less taxed bracket i hope soon .......👍
Why automakers other than Maruti Suzuki, Hyundai, Tata & Toyota not investing in CNG Tech ?
There should be a podcast on new ev policy With deu respect to the interested companies And there product line ups
If Maruti can achieve this 35 to 40km/l thing then a full tank petrol will take you from Kerala to Mumbai even in a Swift or Baleno that has 30 litres of fuel tank..It will be revolutionary..But the thing is the initial cost of ownership needs to be brought down as its high among hybrids.I think series hybrids is not as costly as parallel.Also practicality wise this will be better than EV because most evs wipl be having a range of 350 to 400km and to cover same distance you need to charge minimum 3 times and if the charging station is not available due to any technical reasons it will be even more cumbersome..
Hybrid , CNG , LNG the way to go before 2030
Hybrid cars don’t have enough headroom in the second and third row due to battery pack below.
ALONG WITH THIS THEY SHOULD GIVE PLUGIN HYBRIDS WHICH CAN UTILIZE BOTH THE FEATURES CHARGING IN HOUSING AND CHARGING VIA ENGINES WHEN NEEDED THAT WAY WE CAN EFFICIENTY UTILIZE THE RUNNING COST BEING LESS AND NO RANGE ANXIETY AS WELL
series vs parallel vs series-parallel explanation , was pretty helpful! Thank you!
Its not eco friendly. Just a gimmick, as the sole purpose of ev goes by adding engine. Its brings its low efficiency and pollution to EVs. Better to add more battery in the space of engine and add efficiency.
What about Lithium Iron battery Wastage??? What about Cobalt mining? Doesn't affect sustainability.
Wrong information fed to you. Lithium reserves far exceed requirements. Latest tech have moved to sodium and other types of batteries. Fossil fuels and the combustive and exhaustive Nature of it is significantly more damaging than mining minerals for batteries which can be recycled and reused for years.
This serial hybrid has one major disadvantage against parallel hybrids. If the battery pack fails you cannot run the car. Whereas in a car like Toyota hycross you can continue to run the car without the battery. Looking dangerous if the battery fails at high speed. How does maruti plan to manage the battery failure? What would be the cost of battery replacement? If it is close to current ev car battery costs then this will not fly.
Not just hybrids plug in hybrids will rock market that's sure. Excited about octavia plug in hybrid with 83 Kmpl milage 😍
Can cng hybrids be a reality with 50 kmpl cars?
Toyota and Suzuki alliance will bring lots of New Technology in future..... Great going ❤❤
It will be great if any manufacturer comes with PHEV as well. Would be great for city run arounds for sure.
What I think is Maruti Suzuki should put 2 small CNG tanks in their CNG vehicles like tata so that the problem of Hybrid vehicles cost and boot space is not there, As 🇮🇳 Indian Government has big plans for CNG stations infra of Country. Maruti 's CNG vehicles deliver same mileage as Hybrid vehicles so I think it's a win win.
It’s going to be a mild hybrid swift. Why are people claiming 30 - 35 kmpl ? That’s not possible
I think VW should learn from this. They should bring 1.5TSI evo hybrids to India
Would love more and more podcasts like this from Autocar..MotorInc is being loved by plenty and i love it too..keep going
most efficient petrol generator produce 2.5 units of electricity per liter of petrol. i don't see how can maruti gets that high of mileage with a 2.5 kwh battery with no plug in charge option. they should launch a car with at least 20 kwh battery . that can give 200 km of pure ev range. so you only use petrol when you are going for long distance . a car like that will reduce my fuel consumption by 80%.
wonderful informative show, hope to see more of you both in episodes
How come they never brought the Prius to India?
Ask Maruti Suzuki to break their head about producing safe cars rather than going over hybrid customers know their chance of surviving a Crash is very narrow what I am gonna do with the money I save driving if I die driving that car ... Let's be practical and put our priorities right.
In fact you are the fool. You fall for marketing and hype rather than realities. Majority of marutis entry level customers upgrade from two wheelers. Do these customers worry about safety rating of maruti or safety upgrade from two wheelers ? If you deny them the opportunity to buy Maruti cars or if you make 4 star and above mandatory. A large portion of these people will have to keep using two wheelers. You decide which is safer ?
Whatever power terrain it may be Maruti should make a safe car...After all Indians learnt their values of life. No safe car no car in the family...whatever car it may be Hybrid, paralal, series, ups n downs whatever may be .
In fact you are the fool. You fall for marketing and hype rather than realities. Majority of marutis entry level customers upgrade from two wheelers. Do these customers worry about safety rating of maruti or safety upgrade from two wheelers ? If you deny them the opportunity to buy Maruti cars or if you make 4 star and above mandatory. A large portion of these people will have to keep using two wheelers. You decide which is safer ?
Jimmy should have a mild hybrid system with more torqe
Hybrid is amazing but what about the power? ... Grand vitara is an amazing but it struggles to climb hills 😢
Hybrid means higher upfront cost and more things to break down.
Even if govt just remove cess from high breed ev based on 50% flexfuel. And plugins highbreed ev also base on flexfeul should have 18 % tax without cess that will be game changer For india markets As pollution level will go down Main cause of pollution is ICE traffic jam
I plan to own a Lexus someday...When is the bigger question.
If one can reduce the insane taxes on Hybrids, it will become a blockbuster in our country, especially considering the fact that India is heavily mileage minded while buying a car...
Thanks Hormazd and Sergius for this podcast. I am a proud owner of the Grand Vitara Full Hybrid (Zeta+) for almost 2 years now. I can really resonate with the thought about Toyota-Suzuki JV as a master stroke - both for the Auto giants as well as the Buyers, who are looking for options to complement their driving needs for the next 10 years horizon. I would be great if you could also throw some light on the Roadmaps for Hybrid SUVs. The next sweet spot is the hatchbacks as per your podcast (Fronx, Baleno, Swift, etc.). 1) What happens with Suzuki Grand Vitara/ Invicto, Toyota Urban Cr/ Hyryder ? Are there any plans to bring in Series technology into these models too? And 2) What are the plans for the next versions of these models?
Great video
Government must do away with the 43% tax on hybrids to make them within the reach of the majority. Also, aftermarket retrofitting of battery kits to convert the existing fossil fuel cars to hybrids should be top priority of the government to reduce emissions and help middle class save their hard earned money they spend on fuel.
Really love to see podcast from horamz
Future is walking Things are becoming so unaffordable now from 2019 to 2024 a small hatch back on road cost increase by almost 30%
Aint giong to work even with 35kmpl (Suzuki is following toyota's short term philosophy - which is really 10 years old - the customer has grown way beyond). The BYD Sagull and a couple of more models coming soon will kill Suzuki's core strength.
I think u are ignoring that Byd and other Chinese ev makers true power is the massive state backed manufacturing and exports subsidies given by china and along with host nation subsidy on Ev. In many countries from last year strong and plug in hybrids have sharply risen in popularity and sales growth while ev growth is suddenly slowing down quite sharply outside china Not saying EV aren't the future .but BYD competitive has many things to do with china subsidy industrial policy and its not new thing or restricted to Ev only. We need EV and Strong/ plug in hybrids in cars, EV in 2w and 3w.
At present prices of EV Card are exorbitantly high.
Ev should be an option as well as hybrids
I don't think this hybrid will give 30 kmpl... Realistically it will provide 25 kmpl on highway. So in short it is an alternative to cng. So I believe people people who need 4 cylinders will still go towards hyundai and baleno/fronx. But yes people will still buy it
Series hybrids - as will be made by Maruti - are only ok in the city. They are pretty useless on the highways. But since most cars are running in the cities, I guess that should work. Maruti's 'lowest cost of ownership' will help here.
they are useful if you pair them with a 20 kwh battery that will give you 200 km of pure ev range.
I don't see hybrid sale increase in anywhere in whole world. Most prefer diesel, why running behind hybrid
Team autocar at it's best 👍
Activa owners are worried about Build quality 😂
PLEASE make more podcasts like this
When the Government sees consumers are benefitting from lower fuel costs, they let all the environmental concerns go to the wind and make sure they can grab their share of tax. As it is, lower fuel consumption means lower tax collection on sale of fuel. So, the government takes their profit upfront.
EVs won't take off in India much due to charging issues. So Hybrids are the more practical way to go...why can't the government get it it needs to reduce duty on Hybrid from 40 to 10 percent and on EV from 5 to 2 percent. Only then the pollution will reduce and no one to buy/keep more than one car to reduce parking on the road congestion. In metro cities one should have a garage or permit auction to buy a car lisence.