How far can electric cars REALLY go?? - we drive 12 until they DIE! Tesla, BYD & more | What Car?
#EVRange #EVCar #ElectricCar #ElectricCarRangeTest
How far can electric cars really go in the winter? We drive 12 EVs - including the Tesla Model 3, MG4, VW ID.7 and BYD Dolphin - until they die to find out.
Save thousands on your next new car with What Car? at www.whatcar.com/new-car-deals/
New videos are uploaded to What Car? each week. Don't miss a single one. Subscribe now: bit.ly/2Obgxjd
Visit our website at www.whatcar.com/
What Car? is the UK's biggest car-buying brand and has been helping Britain's car buyers make purchasing decisions for more than 40 years. Our tests are widely regarded as the most trusted source of new car advice.
This channel brings you trusted reviews on all the new models on the market, all the latest first drives, reader reviews, and great car-buying advice.
All reviews are available in full online at Whatcar.com - the UK's leading car-buying website, offering trusted reviews and data on every new car. The website also offers advice on car leasing, new car deals and new and used cars for sale.
Follow What Car? here:
LIKE What Car? on Facebook: goo.gl/yv5jF8
FOLLOW What Car? on Twitter: goo.gl/SJzmT8
Check out our full video catalog: bit.ly/2W81iu9
I think I speak for all non-UK based viewers: would you please add the metric system equivalent to the miles and mph you mention during the video? A simple text overlayed on the video would suffice. Thank you!
I completely agree. It could be done so easily and cater to SO MUCH more people... But it always seems like people from the UK and the US just don't give a damn about people from the rest of the world.
They ironically probably have more viewers watching from outside the UK too
Yes I had my calculator out and paused the video to do calculations. Interestingly a couple of USA channels I have been watching have started showing metric units as well as imperial - which is very welcome!
I am from the UK and agree with you. Whilst this has clearly been created for the uk market, I agree that this added information would benefit many other viewers. Take note @whatcar
Yes, the last couple of recalcitrants using metrics are the UK and USA. We also use the more easily understandable kWh per 100km as the measure of efficiency.
Ah the Jeep Avenger. Awarded car of the year before there were even pre-production test units. There definitely wasn't any back-door dealings there. Pinnacle of quality
It scored well on efficiency surprisingly though. Seems like a great car.
It's like Hyundai Ioniq 6 receiving car design of the year award, when it is clearly one of the ugliest cars in motor history. It's uglier than Hyundais own Coupé/Tiburon from twenty years ago. It looks like a banana with a load of stupid spoilers added on the back. Hyundai Coupé and Saab 900 had a baby. To make things worse, the concept version of it was beautiful. Car makers have the make-a-beautiful-concept-car-but-an-ugly-production-car thing down to a fine science.
@@savedfaves yes "clearly". Looks are never subjective, that much this guy has figured out.. I for one find it good looking
My first thoughts "Awarded car of the year.. Has the worst range of them all.." So the number one concern for EV buyers - range - is terrible. Yeah let's give this thing a major award!
Well, given Jeep's excellent reputation for design, build quality, reliability and after sales service, they would never have been given COTY if anyone had actually reviewed them.
I have a hard time comprehending how such high-budget and professionally produced piece of content can make financial sense to provide for free on the internet! 12 brand new EVs, on a closed off private track all recorded by a team of professionals and presented by two great journalists. Really good job guys, no doubt you've got one of my likes
It's insane to think that just 35 years back (which, in the grand scheme of things is not that long ago), you could have bought a 2-4 bedroom house in the London suburbs within the price range of these cars!
Yep there still silly money for something that sits on the drive 90% of the day !
@@michaeldawson6309 well, I'm also not stting in all my rooms in my house for 90% of the day.
@@drfisheye😂
You couldn't buy a chicken coop for that money these days
These days a small house in London is about the price of a private jet
Now I get why toyota keep saying bad stuff about EV while themself making such a bad EV. Its horrid.
I know right. Can’t believe anyone would buy that. Some people love throwing their money out the windows for the sake of “having a Toyota”.
Toyota simply has been left behind on ev tech. Hence they will badmouth it.
Toyota just do their own thing and that's hybrids and they've perfected them
It's hard to tell if toyota is not intentionally designing poor value EVs. How hard can it be to make an economical EV? This will bode poorly for toyota if they don't lift their game and quickly.
@@2810Madif they made a better EV they could trickle that tech into their hybrids. If their hybrids were perfected as you say the EV motors should be more efficient.
Excellent. Would have loved to see the Ioniq 5 and 6 and Model Y in this too…
Me too. I’m surprised that they left those 3 out, especially the TMY.
@hishamg Given the Y sells more units than the 3 I would have liked to see it too. Assume 30% less than claimed range is always a safe bet on EVs. Maybe 25% less for the Y.
Ioniq 6, especially the one with 18 inch wheels, would certainly have challenged the winners.
Where was NIO ? 150 kw battery range 650 miles !
@@MrLangson It's China only. They get all the good stuff.
as James May said, it's more likly recharge anxiety not range anxiety. & i can't agree more
Yup...recharge anxiety is more of an issue with us too....esp since we fell for the BZ that was available at the time while everything else (or even another BZ) was n 18 month wait and our previous car just finally fell apart. I still can't believe that a joint operation between two major and reliable car manufacturers could put out something ten years behind its time. The dealer we bought from (Like many other I suspect) don't have a clue about electric cars and don't seem interested in going to bat for us on the things that need attending to....i.e. Port Alberni Toyota. Our reliable range is only 320 km (with 10% reserve to allow for non-functioning chargers) allows us to go most places as stations are installed in more places. AND finally BC Hydro is charging for kW and not minutes so we get a break on that at least. Used to cost us twice as much as everybody else due to the incredibly slow charge uptake. Strange that they use the same batteries as ever9one else but insist on keeping the charge rate low. Last Toyota ever for me.
Well Done What Car, a very well put together video. I think you have been listening to the comments!
For context, the Tesla superchargers price right now ranges from 0.38p to 0.55p/kWh, much less than £0.79p/kWh.... but not just that! it shows you the price in the car, for that day, with a bar chart which shows the varying prices at different times of the day.
Hence why tesla makes more sense than anything else.
@@sz4128it comes down to where you charge, when you are charging home the tesla network advantage plays no role in that equation for the consumer, but certainly is great benefit for others who charge frequently on the road.
Ionity for the Mercedes/Volkswagen etc is £0.53p/kwh in the UK. In France i was getting 0.35c/kwh on the Ionity superchargers which is an absolute bargain!
@@sz4128Tesla makes no sense like any EV in the current market just a pointless depreciating money pit.
@@davidlewis4399clearly hasn’t driven one
The heat pump makes a much bigger difference with short daily journeys, bringing the batter and cabin temperature up from cold, to body temperature each time. Constant driving makes less difference.
But in short drives there is no range anxiety whatsoever, so again it, doesn't make much of a difference
Well, if you can pre-heat the car directly from the plug I guess it also works. I think heat pump is for countries with really harsh winters or cars with a small battery where you have to squeeze every km out of it.
It does, it means you will get improved efficiency and therefore reduced cost. Short journeys are far more common than a constant speed drive which is not realistic for most drives @@tomerberman3424
And it would also make a larger difference with other manufacturers than VW-Group, because their heat pump is way worse than pretty much everyone else (Tesla, Hyundai, ...). I've had an ID.3 with heat pump for about 3 years now and if I'd buy a VW again I'd buy it without a heat pump.
@@noelinsua7261Below -15°C, the heat pump coefficient of performance is typically the same as a resistive heater. The heat pump makes the most sense between 0°C and 18°C.
KZhead should just use Ai to add an auto converter for weights and measurements that would briefly appear on screen whenever needed.
Insane test! Best comparison i've ever seen! Well done!
An interesting test would be to repeat this on the same cars but with them all being 3 years old... Nice work!
That implies all the cars were taken care of the same way, which is just not consistent between people. It makes little sense doing that.
I think an interesting test would be new against 5yrs old second hand cars range and depreciation and costs involved .
Good idea. We have 2019 M3LR pre heat pump with 60,000 miles. Seems to have changed very little from new. Summer 270 Winter 230. Latest model is better.
Yep, the used EV market is going to grow rapidly in the next few years.
I agree, but 95% of these cars won't be around in 5 years. Most of them need a battery replacement by that point, and their owners usually trade them in on something else rather than eat the cost.
@@richmaniow Not for me mate, wouldn't touch one. There's simply no way of knowing the true health of the battery. With an engine I know what to test, I can even bring my compression tester, but a battery? Even the maker can't tell you how much life it has left.
@@bigglyguy8429 Whilst it doesn't show in the Tesla app, the battery health for a Tesla can be monitored with a third party app and it measures the degradation over time. My car is 4 years old and has 35k miles on it and the battery degradation is at 3%. This is the sort of thing that all EV manufacturers should make available and would help people decide on which used car to buy.
At the end, they should measure the energy taken at a 7kw charger. It does a great job calculating the energy taken without too much to thermal influence. Any comparison should be calculated.
Well here in Ipswich South East Queensland we complain when winter temperatures are less than 10°c but our problem with batteries is when our summer temperatures exceed 35°c. In parts of western Queensland summer temperatures can exceed 45°c From what i have read batteries also hate heat. Could you please give some insight into battery performance in hot climates. Also how about a cost analysis of an electric vehicle versus a hybrid on a drive from London to Lands End and return in the shortest possible time. Thanks forvyour informative comparison.
Did you also measure how much energy the cars needed to full charge again? That is much more interesting than calculate efficiency acoording to claimed usable size of battery. VW for example works in reality with some 72 kWh instead of claimed 77 kWh according to many other test and measurements.
This would indeed be very interesting and relevant to know, since the charging losses differ as well.
Yes, that would be the most relevant metric for efficiency. I suspect that BYD is giving the gross battery capacity instead of the net capacity. Most manufacturers give both, and even then the real usable figure is slightly less than the claimed one. So charging back to 100% seems the most realistic measurement.
@@Alberto-mq7gwIt always depends on what you want to look at. The consumption without charging losses is relevant for the range. Including charging losses (except with a Tesla on a SuC, as only the kWh that actually reach the battery are charged) in the cost calculation
It's not clear whether they displayed the net or gross battery capacity. It's not the same thing of course.
They said they used the 'usable battery' for their calculations. I thought Tesla doesn't say what that is, though, so those efficieny numbers might be off.
Doug and Will.. Well done mates.. Nice and clear informations about EVs😊
Excellent! I do wish you had included metric equivalent figures , in smaller text, and bracketed maybe... NOT in the spoken info though; that would just be an avalanche of numbers! Predictably, for every question you answered, you raised new questions!
Is it just me or is it outrageous that on average these are 30% short of claimed range. What’s that about?
Range isn’t an issue. Charging infrastructure and recharge speed (a factor of charging infrastructure) are. Build them and they will come.
@@danwiddon3854lol. Not here in Australia they won’t.
Brilliant cars. 😂
Batteries perform worse in cold weather. The ranges are calculated using the WLTP test with standardized conditions, whereas the conditions here were significantly worse. I think the WLTP also has climate control deactivated. This is pretty well-known, however, if you've looked into electric cars for a second. It's also not any worse than the claimed fuel efficiencies which - even with normal to sedate driving behavior - are almost never reachable.
Sorry it very much is , along with price. These are the main blocks to those that want to buy don't buy EV.
A very interesting and useful test, thanks from a viewer in Ireland that will have these cars available here also. One factor that isn't mentioned and I think should be factored in for all car test, not just EVs, is the car's weight. Weight is such an important factor on so many levels: 1. Running efficiency - the heavier the car, the less efficient it is 2. Charging time - heavier cars tend to need larger batteries 3. Pedestrian safety on impact 4. General environmental impact - due to amount of materials used to build the car 5. Local environmental impact - heavier cars will have higher amounts of tyre and break pollution and we are all discovering just how dangerous these types of pollution really are
Cheers from Canada where 11*C is tropical. 😅Fantastic video. Thank you!
I’m picking up a BYD dolphin like this, it will be the main car used during the week. 6 dollars on electricity compared to 90 a week on fuel, is a difference. I’m in Australia, and l also keep a 4x4 in the drive, for out of town and trips.
you are my son
15:05 would be great if you added another number miles per price tag
Thank you gentlemen for thoroughly explaining the importance of efficiency and that it is not all about ‘range’.
I'll have range over efficiency, and so will everyone who uses a big car for bigger journey which is what a big car is intended for. So, EV is out of question.
@@MyRealNameI don't understand why you think this is a dichotomy. They're saying that both are important. Which is true in ICE vehicles too. The soccer moms buying gas SUVs and minivans ALSO care about miles per gallon when they choose a car. Even if they never drive the back roads of Nevada with a hundred miles to the next station, the inefficiency directly translates to MONEY spent on fuel. It has always mattered, in big cars especially because the numbers are already so low, so any impact hurts even more.
@@Cyrribrae What about "Hundreds of miles to the next charging station`? As regards what they drive in the US, I wouldn`t know.....what I do know is what I drive in the cold, damp UK....a 2020 Vauxhall Corsa Diesel.....2 mins to fill up, 650 mile range @ 70mpg, cost me 12 grand at 2 years old. If we are talking `efficient`, you cannot look further than diesel power....which is the reason ALL products, no matter what they are, get from A to B under diesel power!
@@enrobsorussell What about "most people don't ever need to drive hundreds of miles to the next charging station"? I live in Canada which according to people like you should be one of the worst place on earth to buy an EV and it's 10 times more practical than any gas car I've ever owned. Keep wasting money on fuel driving a slow ancient boat if you want, but no one cares.
@@MrArcticPOWER You need to get up to speed...it was him above saying a hundred miles to a gas station, so I said `what about a hundred....." I also said, "Evs have their place" You are just another one wetting his nappy because someone is not interested in your pride and joy.....you never hear af anyone driving an ICE car wetting their pants because someone criticises (Constructively or otherwise) the car they drive. Can we quit with the "Don`t criticise my little baby" sh*t? Either that....or off to the naughty step with you, after a swift swig of Calpol of course.
A test of the Model S against the EQE and ID.7 would be really interesting. After all, they're the same size and weight.
As an EQE driver i will point out one thing. It has an excellent efficiency at higher speeds. I was driving through Europe and doing 90mph i was still getting 260 miles range in winter. The BWM i5 would struggle to do 120 miles on a similar speed due to its square front. Aero really matters at motorway speeds. What this meant was i could do 200 miles between charges if stopping and charging between 5-80% which takes about 25 minutes.
That’s great and all, but 99% of people do mixed driving around town and on 70mph motorways here in the UK.
you are lying 1000% EQE 300 managed 255 miles at 120kmh/75mph at 9c tested by bjorn nyland. so to go the same range at 25kmh/15mph higher speed and at lower temperature.. yeah lmfao
I know!! I’ve had it!! I’ve had my Renault Zoe for about four years and had two breakdowns, one of which was self inflicted by forgetting to turn the lights off having needed full beam on country roads.
The thing I miss the most in these tests is how much regen affects the range. i live in a region full of montains and steep slopes so a good regenerative breaking makes all the difference. Some cars with great range on paper(like the VW) have awful regen and can be bested by others like the renault on this
driven the new id7? i have the 5 and the regen is too strong for most driving i don't tend to use it unless i am somewhere hilly.
@jamesbutler606 the id7 is too big for my street, it wouldn't turn easily. From vw I have driven the id3 and the old eup and egolf and found they had a weaker regen than my e208 or other I've considered
@@samuxan ok. I too had the ID3, I found the regen quite harsh so rarely used it aside from if I was coming into a 30 from a 60 and needed the slowing power and wasn’t just using cruise control (very rare not to be really as it is phenomenal) Not driven a Peugeot since the 207 - they were taking it to the Germans back then so I can imagine they are still doing well, tiny steering wheels were difficult to use though, was an instant oooh moment when I test drove a golf to replace the 207.
According to tests by Ecodriver in the Innsbruck area the MEB cars have excellent recuperation/regenerative braking.
@@abraxastulammo9940 the new gen 2 motors that are in the 2024 onwards vehicles should be better at the energy recuperation due to being a higher power therefore more back - whether that is true I have no idea, I don’t find myself wanting more power than the 200hp I have in my id5, but if it works more efficiently at regular driving speeds then an extra 43% would be fine.
That intercut “dialogue” between the two presenters was really slickly done
Probably a big influence from Top Gear there
I drove my kia e-niro from west cumbria to Leeds and back on Friday (290 miles rpund trip). Temperature was 0-5, it was dark all the way back and raining and snowing. Most of the journey was on the A66, remainder on A1(m) and then traffic into Leeds. The car efficiency shown on the journey was 3.6m/kwh. Range on departure from Leeds was 190 miles. When we got home after 145 miles the remaining claimed range was 25, so 14%shortfall. Recharging in Leeds cost £17, recharging back to 100% at home cost £8.
Wow you must be fully embedded in the cult
Binary BS @@nickthegriffin
@nickthegriffin he won't be when comes to selling it. Second hand dealers don't want EVs which is one of the reasons why EV prices have tanked so much
290 miles for £25, approx equivalent to 4 gallons of fuel @ £6.25 a gallon, so 72 mpg, an E Niro is about Golf or Focus in normal car size, most diesels will do the same or better and not have to sit around in Leeds waiting for the car to charge, and costs a lot less at initial cost, not really that eco friendly really, especially when we have to rape the world of it's resources more so to build an electric car, also the electricity made in Leeds is in question, presumably Drax power station, doesn't look all that good
@@tug1345 After doing some math - His round trip was ~£23 (as he did not use the full £8 full home charge to get there). That would equate to 8p per mile (23/290). Given Petrol averages £1.436 ppl in Leeds. Please help me find an equivalent sized vehicle which would be capable of 80mpg real world to match the 8p per mile. I looked around on Fuelly and was unable to find anything. Focus best is 50mpg avg (£37.71 trip cost) and Golf 45mpg (£41.89 trip cost).
One of the things I would like to see in your chart is the runtime how many hours and minutes did it actually get on that charge? Kinda how long did it take for you all to run the test and how long did each one last. Enjoyed watching it thank you very much though.
Glad I bought the Tesla Model 3 long-range. Homecharging in BC Canada is 9c / kWh so it is very impressive
23 cents/kw in California
0.19€ in Slovakia or free in Kaufland stores
@@yuxuan130411 kw?
Electricity cost here in France varies from 0,13 to 0,27€ /kWh, depending on the type of contract you subscribed to.
9 cents in North Carolina, USA
An important point of efficiency is also during long journeys with rapid charging stops. A high efficiency car will get a higher number of miles per kWh charged, which shortens your charging time. For example a Tesla model 3 gets around 700km/h at 150 kW while the XC40 gets around 400 km/h at the same charging speed.
Or stick with ice and spend 5mins filling up for 500 miles + at least
@@gunnyhighway4422to spend more time overall at a gas station than at a charging station, no thank you.
@@bp495599 what planet are you living on 🤣
@@gunnyhighway4422 Do the math, I charge at home and don't have to go to a gas station every week or so.
@@bp495599Doing 500+ miles 🤔
Most people are mostly driving short journeys, and mostly charging at home. So if my EV has less efficiency on my daily commute or to the supermarket in winter, it doesn't really effect me. I charge overnight from just after midnight to just before 6am anyway. I don't think anyone would drive their car to empty so in my opinion speed of charge is one of the most important factors on long journeys. So on my trips to Southern France I have typically stopped four times to recharge (over two days), but each time was for only 30 to 40 minutes, enough time to toilet, grab a coffee or eat a sandwich.
The reason for lower ranges here is not the low temperature, but rain and wet route. It causes much more resistance for tyres… I can clearly see this on my Tesla, where I was doing some comparisons myself. Also whitching from summer tyres to winter tyres in the same day resulted into 15-20% efficiency decrease.
Great test! Although, I recommend that when the EV cannot maintain 50 mph speed, that should be the end of the test and mark the distance as the result. That will bring the test results between different EV much more consistent and comparable. Because the EV software algorithm varies greatly between manufacturers. Some would let the EV drop to let's say 30 mph immediately after the battery is low, and let EV run a much longer distance (because lower speed require less energy consumption). While other EV may try to maintain 50 mph speed as long as possible until the battery is completely dead. So basically the shape of the drop off cliff is very different between EV. Thus, adding variations to the test results.
If a car becomes restricted to 9mph, surely it should be discontinued at that point. You wouldn’t drive for an extra few miles on a road at that speed.
I think it's a better emergency handling setup than just stopping. Because if you where looking at the range estimates you probably made a plan... So you're probably close to a solution to charge. Because at those slow speeds electric cars are at their most efficient. You can realistically boost your range by consciously deciding to go at the minimum highway speed limit instead of the maximum. People don't do this because they don't know and electric cars aren't mass adopted yet... But it is technically true in ICE cras too. So I would rather the car start limping and i can turn on 🔺blinkers rather than having to call a tow truck if i missjudged by 5 or 10 miles. In the same veine, there's no excuse for not having a spare tire... Tesla is stupid for removing it, thank god they don't have the apple effect on the industry and nobody is removing it to follow their trend.
If you have to chose paying for a tow or to charge at a DCFC 1 mile away, I see very well the reason to continuing to drive even if it is @ 9mph.
You always have the option of stopping if it's unsafe. But I'd rather have the option than not haha.
Afaik WLTP range is until the car cannot go 62 mph anymore.
Of course you would if you were just a few miles from home.
Great video. Took my MG4 Long Range out recently on a round trip of 220 miles, overnight stop half way, with convenient Ionity chargers around the 50 mile mark. I reckon I might juuuuust have made the 220 mile without charging, but this would have been close! So i chickened out, and did a top-up charge on 160miles.....11⁰ outside and intermittent light rain. My decision not to go with the extended range model for an extra 4k i think was justified.
That's a very good test and a lovely video. Thank you ✌️
You didn’t tell if the BYD Seal was the rwd or awd version. I would assume it was the awd, meaning it had less range than the rwd would have had. Would have been interesting to see if the rwd verions would have beat the model 3 long range.
It was the rwd seal in this video
Yeah, but the Model 3 is AWD.
Which makes the model 3 even more impressive. The awd seal has lower efficiency than the rwd. If the awd seal was used the model 3 would've beaten it by more. The Model 3 was at a disadvantage efficiency wise.
For ICE cars, the 4WD versions are typically less efficient but for EV's this is not always the case. For example the Tesla AWD has two different types of motors, each optimized for different driving situations, and will most of the time only use the most efficient motor. Only when more power is needed, both motors are used. For the Tesla Model 3 the AWD option is linked to the larger battery, so quite a bit more weight, but most of that has nothing to do with the extra front motor.
@@jwstolk The Model 3 RWD has always been more efficient than the AWD regardless. Back when they had the long range RWD, it was more efficient than AWD. You could had 3 passenger in the SR+ to compensate for the weight and you would still get better efficiency.
Great video and interesting results. One minor error / typo: 17:48 - you show the Tesla 3 price as 49,990 quid, and at 17:50 you show the Mercedes EQE price as the same 49,990 quid, but the audio says it is almost 20K more to buy.
Exactly! At least here in Portugal the EQE is MUCH more expensive than the M3. Here the M3 SR costs 39.900€ and the LR 10.000€ more. The EQE 350 basic costs 73.000€ ! (which has as many bhp as the M3 SR from 39.900€). PLEASE UPDATE IT.
Actually that a major typo, as it would have cost me 20K if I took the on-screen graphic for real. Bummer, I don't have 20K to spare.
Ditto! 💶👀
My bigger question is how long can it drive after 7 years
In Norway, the 10y old tesla is 10-15 % loss... but i think that if you know battery care and how to charge in a healthy way. CATL is releasing its 1000km battery packs and dropping the prices with BYD on batteries by 25 to 50%. So in the next ten years, EVs will be laughing.
@@shawncooper8131If you know "battery care" you are already at a 40% loss since you ain't using the top 15% and the bottom 25%.
For me I don't care about the battery health as the fuel save is enough to buy a new one. I always charge my Nissan Leaf 2014 to 100% full and usually runs to 20%, the SOH is around 74%, and this is the battery chemistry come from 10 years ago. And I know there is Leaf 2011 still on road and battery haven't been replaced which is amazing!
As importantly, what would it be worth after 7 years? - or even after 3 years?
at 10 years... its zero miles... due to battery failure
This was such a great test. Subbed
A point that your analysis highlights very well is that, if running cost is an important part of the purchasing decision, you need to get "there and back again" within your available range so that public charging is a rarity. For the Tesla, your commute needs to be comfortably less than 145 miles each way or for the Lexus RZ 450e less than 75 miles each way. Many of us will only rarely test a car's range on a single journey but you need to plan for both directions to stay on cheap-rate charging.
Provided you can charge at home. If you can't charge at home then losing half of your range due to it being cold becomes much less tenable.
@@myhandlewastakenandIgaveupwhere did you get half your range from , yea it can be argued that you'll loose around 1/3 of your range but 50% frankly is b/s !
@@davefitzpatrick4841 i owned mine a couple of years ago but turn the car on you would lose between 5 and 20 miles of range. Turn the heat on and every 1 mile of range was twice as expensive. They may have improved since then. I made it one winter after I moved away from being able to charge at home to not (super old house. Exorbitant cost to rewire it) before I switched back to ice.
@@davefitzpatrick4841 Because losing 1/3 is SO much better? omg
@@MyRealName that's worse case , Tesla model 3 is still capable of 293 miles in winter, probably longer than your bladder needs to be emptied !
Talking about running costs without taking into account charging losses is quite misleading. You’re not paying for the electrons that the car uses, but for the electrons that go into the battery. That is dependent on the charger AC/DC but also on the car. BTW, that Seal was way better than the ID.7 on your last comparison Seal/TM3/ID.7 What happened there?
I remember seeing an article about the ridiculously high amount of kWh consumed during night standstull in a garage to keep the car on for SW updates and wake up program and whatnot.
You did not consider the most critical differentiating factor: battery type! Which cars have LFP batteries and which ones use nickel based NMC?
We would be so lucky to have the choice of Sodium ion battery powered cars only available in China
Why would that be lucky? Heavy and low energy density.
Briliant test! Very good work! 🎉
19:38 good to see the £ figures for cheap overnight home charging included in this video , 7p compared to 29p goes to show what a diffrence the right tarrif and smarter usage patterns and can make.
Which is ok for people who can park on their own driveway next to their charger
agreed but those people do exist and do charge like that. a lot depends where you live almost all housing on North Wales has off road parking and garages etc. Southern England probably doesn't, they think they are well off with a 700k flat and a parking space lol. We have 4 bedroom bungalows double garages and parking for 5 cars. and it costs 300k. all depends where we choose to live I have lived London chester and northwales and I know why I stayed here.
I'm glad they included all the tarrifs for once. There's too many ev plungers that assume 7p
And how much scam it is to ask ppl to buy thus only to provide abusively expensive way to use it outside home charge
Model 3 is still the efficiency king ,cheers guys 👍😉💪
What I don’t understand is if the model 3 achieved 3.9 miles / kWh and that is its claimed efficiency, why did it not achieve its claimed range? Something is amiss……
@@simonm9923You are confusing three different numbers. The claimed WLTP range infers an efficiency of about 4.9 but they fell short of that at 3.9. However their measurement of actual efficiency was the same as the car was telling them on the day. Similar to a claimed MPG of 30 but the trip meter says 25 and your own measurement of distance and fuel in also says 25.
And its dropping in price quicker than out of date milk because no one wants them?
@@trevorwilson2966compared to what EV? most EV have their price falling harder than tesla.
but even tesla say the rangeometre in car is based solely off wltp and battery percentage not live adjusted for conditions and driving style. @@kenwise2677
In India, the Tata Punch EV costs $18,000 and has a real-world range of 270 km. The best part is that it's not a dedicated EV car; originally, it was a petrol car. Somehow, they have fitted a 35 kWh battery in it and have a charging speed of 60 kW.
Not very cold,6-10 degrees C is too warm for a real test. Try this test at 5/10 below C. Snow also creates much more resistance on the wheels.
you should have tested ioniq 5 and ioniq 6
exactly. and from KIA as well.
But sadly they can't live up to their figures. 1,45 kWh /10km (at speed 110-120 km/h) is good though.
The Moronic 5 and 6. Oh dear
Haha I’m Australian & down here we have the indicators on the correct side just like the seal. None of this indicators on the left hand stalk rubbish. Why do you in the UK have them the opposite to us? We are both RHD so should be the same.
7:00 Yes, going to a place with actual winter would be even more interesting. Testing in 6 degrees below what would be considered a nice summer day should not really produce any significant deviations, but clearly it does. Ranges of 25 - 30+ percent below the stated figures show an unreasonable difference between factory numbers and real life imo.
The next couple of things to keep in mind is that this was a combined city/highway test. You can probably drip another 10% off of these numbers for an actual road trip. The next is that these are 100-0 tests but you can only fast charge 10-80, and even then some of the charge curves get bad above 50 or 60 percent, but that means you have to take another 30% off of the tested range if you were on a raod trip. Which means with most of these you are going to be stopping for 40 to 60 minutes every 2 hours or less of driving in these test conditions. EVs have a long way to go for mass adoption.
A very informative and useful test. I feel there is so much focus on the maximum range of an EV that the efficiency is often overlooked. With ICE cars, the focus is usually on mpg or l/100km and there is no mention of the range, yet that still impacts when you need to stop to fill up.
ICE cars get real world range of 500 - 650 miles + fuelling takes minutes so its not an issue and is not mentioned, quite the opposite for EVs
@@sender5804 Your average ICE car does not get 500-650 miles per tank.
@@SyntheticSpy how much they do?
@@sender5804 300-400 is average based on what I can find, but my personal car usually doesn’t even hit the 300 number. It’s really much closer to the typical EV than people realize
my golf had less 'range' than my ID5 does¬
nice video, but I would be more interested to see a comparison between used electric cars instead of brand new ones to see battery depreciation
Typical battery degradation runs at 2% per year, then begins to slow a little after 4 or 5 years. I'd expect a reasonably well looked after 5 year old EV to still show a battery SOH (state of health) over 90%, unless it was a Nissan Leaf.
Very interesting. The weather conditions you had for the test are quite normal for our spring and fall. Moderate, in other words. It would really be something to see with them on dedicated winter tyres, with temperatures at -20, and with 4 or 5 inches of snow on the ground.
-58C in Alberta a Month and a half ago. (-83F) without windchill. My Bolt EV drove well range was way down and everything was cold clunky.
Nice test 👌🏼👍🏼
I’d like to add that „6-10 degrees” are NOT winter conditins …. !
Not by a long shot.
Normal UK conditions 7/8 months of the year
They made that VERY clear in the video MANY times so what's your problem?
Actually the tested conditions are probably a worst case for an EV due to the humidity in the air. The car has to dehumidify and heat which often means running AC and a resistive heater. Colder air with low humidity actually needs less energy to heat.
Majority having a range less than 100miles of the advertised range is just diabolical... criminal even there are advertising laws
It's not their fault, that is governed by the EPA/WLTP cycles that car manufacturers do not have a say about. Blame the unrealistic test cycles introduced by these organisations
The only use these numbers have is comparing one car against another. There is not enough information to tell people that.
No. You have to drive at the most economical way to get the maximum range. Probably about 45mph and no heating, etc. Efficiency in EVs is usually must better at 50mph than 70mph. This is also true for petrol cars ofc.
@@benw4079 wrong. My ID.3 gets the advertised range during summer without any compromises on driving style or heating/AC. If you don't drive like a lead footed, screech-to-a-halt-at-every-junction moron, and don't do much motorway driving, then the WLTP is actually quite accurate. Of course the majority of drivers have no idea about sensible or economical driving (again, no loss of journey time, just not braking at the last minute) so most people are incapable of getting good mileage from a conventional car or an EV.
@@TheTomporter I'm not wrong, but thanks for sharing. I have an iDé.
I used to have a fiat cinquecento with a 100 litre LPG tank cost £26 to fill up and coveted 750 miles on one fill up. One of only two cars that i actually sold for more than it cost to buy 👍
For all the talk of EV prices crashing, these (new) cars are really pricey
I just acquired '22 T3LR 8500mi for 3/5 cost. Very comparable to conventional vehicle prices. I wanted a Toyota Tacoma but they were running 5k higher than Tesla. Some fair deals used.
Certainly in the UK that's the case. I know it's the primary reason I would not (or could not) buy an EV. I just don't have that sort of money, even with PCP/HP etc and with the insurance/tax/charging and other running costs the saving is pretty much nil.
Wait until you see the insurance prices. Insurance companies don't want anything to do with these since they can't really be repaired.
@@SpareSomeChange8080 Indeed. That's also part of the calculation. Repair/replacement of the parts are expensive to the point that they are prohibitive and you might as well just get another vehicle!
Epic data thanks, great job. Winter vs summer testing would also be good. Maybe if all the cars start at 20% charge you can save some time ;) Also tyres might play a big part in this.
You have used the actual numbers for distance but not for energy used I gather from the video. Did you charge them up after they went flat and recorded the actual energy usage or just what the car said?
Do test middle of winter using heater, lights etc and with families inside 2 kids & parents and everything they need for a trip.
Even the best of the bunch is only 75% as good as claimed.
And then add all the repair cost. Hahaha if anyonr drive one of these cars, they are the fool.
Brilliant test... showing real world information.... Thanks guys
Are you Tesla owner?
@_beccaszn Certainly not.... They may be efficient but I think they are ugly.
@@mikadavies660I get it everyone has their opinions and their choice
@@mikadavies660have you driven one before?
@_beccaszn Not sure what congratulating the guys on a Good Test has got to with me buying or driving a Tesla??? Obviously, their technology is good but £49,950 for a melted bar of soap! Why would I buy something that cost £1,000/mth and makes me sick, looking at it..? The Model Y is more practical for a family than the 3... but group 50 insurance!! No dam way!!! I have driven the old Model 3. Dreadful hard suspension. I believe the new 3 is far improved. I actually like the BMW i4. Very nice drive but... inefficient and too expensive.
The BYD doesn't have the indicator stalk "on the wrong side" it has indicators where they traditionally were on British cars and other markets who drive on the left. You have just got used to cars with the indicators on the wrong side which was done by European manufacturers to save money by having to only produce one design rather than one for each market. In a classic British car it makes sense, as you can change gear with your left hand and use the finger of your right hand to flick the indicator stalk both at the same time. (Though in the days of electric cars with no real gears that is less of an issue)
Did you consider the drafting effect? Cars travelling in line always disadvantage the front car
They didn't drive that near to each other, I guess there wasn't much of a wake (supposing that's what you meant with drafting effect).
They were changing drivers so I would think they changed order of cars as well...
I'm just wondering which roads/ motorways in the UK you can drive consistently at 50 or 70 mph! You're often stop/ starting/ crawling or at a complete standstill! One more thing for second-hand buyers can you list the current price for replacing the batteries for each vehicle (parts and labour)
I visited the UK last Summer, rented a car at LHR, and drove highway speed for the vast majority of our trip. Salisbury, Birmingham, Wrexham, Edinburgh, York, Cambridge and back. All fine once a few miles outside London, with only the occasional slowdown.
And then show the cost of a new engine for similar petrol cars. And do a similar test for petrol cars, efficiency, mileage and what happens when you run the car completely dry. Maybe add an oil leak?
@@TheDavestatsA new engine for a petrol/diesel car plus fitting is way, way less than the cost of a battery pack, mate. Plus they can and very often do go for 200k+ miles without any problem at all. An EV simply won’t. Nice try at whataboutism, next time try actually thinking about what you are saying though.
Saw a video from Canada. Kia charges $56K for a replacement battery, not including installation. Get outta here with these EV’s.
Any of them in Scotland! I used to to do 2k miles a month on motorway, 100 miles 4 times a day and never stopped.
What about ionic 5&6 !!??
Important point on efficiency: If you need to charge on your trip to reach your destination (or waypoint), the most efficient car will need less power added, thus less charge time added to your trip.
When going on a long trip in cold weather you should preheat your car and battery, not let sit in the cold before driving.
I haven’t watched this yet but let me leave my opening thoughts.. I expect the average range to be around 75% of what you would expect to get in summer. As a caveat I returned a new petrol RAV4 hybrid that they claimed would do 56 mpg because the best I could get was 36 mpg.
That is why diesel is king ,my insignia sport tourer 2016 has same range when it was new ,same range in winter or summer and can run 1100 km (680 miles) at 130 km/h highway speed on one tank
@@dzonikg I’m sure it’s very good but the laws of physics says it’s impossible to do the same economy in cold wet rain than in warm dry conditions. Sorry but it’s not possible.
@@garrycroft4215 I went in January to Italy so it was winter ,3000 km round trip ,temperature were from -10 Celsius to +10 ,it was 99% highway drive ,i drive around 140 km/h only slowing becase off trafic so lets say awerage was 130,my awerage consumption for whole trip was 6.1l/100 km and tank is 71 liter so that gives you 1150 km range at highway speed
30%!!!!lmao! If my gas car got 30% less than stated id be pissed! No?
it's possible to achieve quoted range in the city when car regen at every stoplight or if driving slow on the motorway at 90kmh.. otherwise guaranteed to underperform on range. the testing cycles need to be revised so that they show consumption at real motorway speed, 120kmh.
Since you were talking about heat pumps, I think you should’ve included the other benefits that the heat pumps provide such as better battery maintenance extending its life before needing replacing
I live in eastern Washington state (USA). Tesla is the car I see the most. Great review!! Thanks for all the work.
Nice test. Tesla continues to impress with it's efficiency. Somehow they manage to go further with a smaller battery. The lower weight and better aerodynamics are very impressive. Does the Model 3 LR have LFP or lithium ion batteries? I know some teslas use BYD batteries, I wonder how a BYD with BYD batteries will fare against a Tesla with BYD batteries?
It comes with lithium ion batteries @GT86crazy
Byd designed the seal for the best of both worlds. Tesla feels like an eletric bumper kart with its intense regeneration one pedal driving. Thats one of the major factors that makes it more efficient. Curious to see the new performance m3's efficiency compared to the seal excellence once its released.
@@jpataca5598 my friend raves about the one pedal driving in his model Y. I've not experienced it myself but I can see how more aggressive regen would give better efficiency in city driving. However for the highway it can be more efficient to allow free wheeling.
Please doublecheck cabin temperatures next time during the test, chinese cars are known to keep the actual cabin temperature a few degrees lower than configured in cold conditions.
I don't belive that not even 1 driver changed the temperature in their car. Also in a test like this, it matters if someone quickly entered a warm car or left a door open for 5 minutes on driver swap. Also a test to be somewhat reliable, it would be nice to do it 3 times to help with accuracy of what they are actually measuring
I’ve had my Hyundai Ioniq 38kWh just over 3 years now. Done 19000 miles and averaging 5.1 miles/kWh with range 200 miles in winter and 230 miles summer.
Thank you for doing this work, not quite as exciting as power sliding an R8, but arguably as useful for consumers
So basically, the average EV has about a 30% lower range than claimed. Frankly that's appalling and this level of inaccurate reporting by manufacturers should be illegal.
The range is based on standardised test conditions, not the real world. The same is true of mpg and l/100km figures for ICE vehicles. They are a benchmark for the comparison of vehicles only. Real world range is affected by air temperature, altitude, humidity, road surface conditions, driving style, wind speed, wake effects from other vehicles etc.
The range in your ice car range also depends on weather so is that illegal . Your range on the dash is just hypothetical range.
Isn’t the claims made by EV manufacturers being investigated?
@robertbroadbent3038 read your car's specification and tell me the last time you got that mpg out of your car?
@robertbroadbent3038 if all the manufacturers claimed mileages are wrong by roughly the same amount, then the problem isn't the manufacturers claims, its the test procedure that all the manufacturers use (WLTP). This is also the procedure used for ICE vehicles to work out mpg, which is also why those figures don't reflect the real world. The solution to the problem is to amend WLTP to more accurately reflect real world conditions.
If you have a huge round course is there any reason why you are drafting each other? It ruins and alters the results as the bad aero cars get better results than in normal use and how can you verify the gaps have been same all the time as each cars adaptive cruise keeps different distances. Do you have a data to share how many kilometeres each car lead the pack?
valid questions. Any comments What car team?
They rotated the order each lap, they did mention it at the beginning.
i bought a BYD Seal just a month ago, i have solar panels system on my home, that's just incredible worht it, absolutelly 100% free charging
Messiah on a unicycle!! I just did the sums on my 250000 mile 2004 Toyota Avensis d4d estate that i bought 7 years ago for £700, thoroughly abuse and use as a toolbox including generator and often multiple welders. It is also ratted so has lights on the roof. It is also absolutely bashed to hell. No plastic undertrays or arch liners have survived. The bumpers are held on with cable ties and the rear window is plywood! I think of this car as a project in recycling. I currently live on the Fens not far from Kings lynn. No Motorways for a few years now. The cost for 10000 miles at the currently indicated 60.4 mpg @£1.55 per litre would be £1166.61. And i literally got a speeding letter through yesterday.
I just did the sums for my ex MOD 1998 LDV Convoy xlwb2.5di crewcab dropside with a massive Luton like box on the back which we live in, and that at 28mpg and £1.55 per litre came in at £2516.54. If any electric vehicles are less efficient than this lumbering great 11 foot tall by 21 foot long beast what is the point of them? Mine even has wood burner!! I'm not even going to bother doing the costs of my 1984 Jawa 210 shopper.
Great video. Thank you. What would be really great , is if you included some numbers for their ICE counterparts, especially efficiency numbers as the range is surely much better for ICE car and not helpful. Being that range is simply result of petrol/diesel having much better energy density then modern batteries. Like should Tesla Model 3 LR be matched to a BMW M3 (similar specs) or BMW 320d? iD.7 can be compared to VW Passat 2.0. So, is there saving money in doing 100km (miles) in EV compared to similar specced ICE car?
very professional and scientific test with good explNtions eg with rain
but, but, but take a look at the price of these EVs sold in China Tesla Model 3 RWD ~ 27K Tesla Model 3 LR ~31K BYD Seal ~ 20K BYD Dolphin ~ 7-9K Price wise, Tesla's counterpart is Nio ET5, Xpeng P7
sorry, this has been done better a long time ago in other countries. instead of setting temperature to some level, they should adjust the heating so that the temperature actually reach a specified target. heating is a super important parameter for range in winter.
You've touched on the importance of talking about EV efficiency, but I think you've missed the mark. It's not so much about the difference in money since a few hundred pounds a year isn't enough to change a purchasing decision. But it IS a difference in charging time especially on a long journey. A model 3 with high efficiency and the reliable Supercharger network will get you much faster to your destination than a Lexus with 40% worse efficiency and only 50KWh max chargeing rate.
It’s a shame the Polestar 2 Long Range Single Motor wasn’t included when this has a claimed range of 406 miles. I have one and while I can’t get close to that right now, I’m easily achieving at least 4mi/kwh (in winter!). The Model 3 has always been the efficiency king but it would have been nice for a proper comparison between the two updated cars.
My Hyundai Kona has never had the trip reset. It's just dropped to 3.8m/kwh after 4 trips to London and back in a few weeks in similar weather to the test (460m round trip). Worst case conditions, almost all motorway driving @70-75mph so very little regenerative braking. It dropped from 4 then 3.9 - total mileage is 10,500 currently. In summer it was 275m range displayed, worst I've seen in winter was 216m @ 3 deg C, around 10-12 deg C displayed range is 230 - 245. Never driven it to zero, obviously, but displayed max ranges seem a little less than I could get going by satnav distances covered. Edit, my Kona has a useable 64 kwh battery according to specs.
Brilliant vlog, can you please also compare the cost of running diesel/petrol cars against EVs.
Yes efficiency is a big deal I mourn the passing of the Hyundai Ioniq, affordable and efficient!
I’m hoping (although I have absolutely no evidence for this) that the original Ioniq will return as the “Ioniq 4”, only with faster rapid charging and more range.
I'm still driving it, but now endagered species, not being made anymore.
For real, love mine. An EV for people who just want an EV and don't need some big flashy thing that does 0-60 in 2 seconds or goes 500 miles.
@@michaelchilds3305why not made anymore?
Excellent test! The sooner we drop the overall range measure, and the sooner efficiency becomes the key measure, the better. Maybe do the same test, with the same cars, in the summer to see how much closer they get to the ridiculous claimed (and trade sanctioned) figures. Don’t bother retesting the Chadamo pair…..
The most useful comparison of running costs missing. Electric vs petrol / diesel costs. Forget everything else that is the stat I want to know.
I used to have a VW touran and used to get 58mpg. I managed to drive nearly 600 miles between fill ups