3D printer ringing is a tricky problem to hunt down and fix - can your wacky suggestions after my last attempts improve them?
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Watch part I here: • Wobbly 3D printer make...
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Those sand containers are a great solution. Did you try adding the sand only to the static portions of the frame?
Sandtainers*
I was going to ask the same question. Leave those heated bead sand containers out.
Surprised he didn't try it without, first, to begin with...
Same question from me too. I'd love to see it only attached to the static frame parts
The ones on the bottom. Of the bed can't be a good idea
Try removing the sand blocks from the moving parts. Keep them on the non-moving parts.
He has to generate comments. That helps getting the clip prompted all over the interwebs.
I was wondering that as well
@@theomoons As they say... If you want help, don't ask a question, simply suggest doing it a certain way, and someone will surely explain a better one. ;)
Not documenting "failures" is a huge problem in the medical industry b/c peeps don't want to embarrass themselves. Props to you for posting this. It helps inspire new hypotheses to come and still makes good content 👌
I think we all need to be more supportive of each other making mistakes.
In the machine tool world, "epoxy granite" is used to fill machine frames to increase rigidity and dampening ability. It's basically just epoxy resin and sand. What the epoxy adds is it connects the mass of the sand to the structure, making it one. The aluminum extrusion with sand in it will ring nearly as much as without the sand as the sand is able to just move and allow the aluminum to move (ring).
True, however cast iron also has significantly different characteristics to aluminum extrusions. Plus, the lighter the machine then the slower / shallower you need to go. Even a mini lathe weights 40+kg.
@@arthurmoore9488 So you add mass to non moving parts only. If you're fairly certain you're not going to fiddle about with your design, you could even fill in the outer moldings.
I still feel like the sand in the frame might marginally helps, but adding the "sand containers" to all of the moving parts really just serves to add weight and increase the problems.
Not sand. It should be ie. lead to even have marginal difference.
Yes. I would have liked to see what would happen if sand was added to just the non moving parts.
Although sand in the frame really is a poor-mans version of just using better aluminum extrusion profiles - i.e. the heavy-duty type instead of light-weight.
@@alexbaeza4370 mhmm mm
@@graealex its not the same… one adds strengths and the other absorbs vibration energyyy
There's an amazing technique called "Motion Amplification" which uses special cameras and DSP to visually exaggerate imperceptible movements in video. It's used largely for identifying sources of resonance in structures and industrial machinery. I'd be fascinated to see it used on a 3D printer. I predict the main source of resonance is the belts.
Wow that sounds so cool. i remember a similar tech where a camera was used to observe a human face and detect imperceptible changes in color of the skin due to blood being pumped and amplify it to detect the heart beat.
@@wizardOfRobots it's the same, it's called Eulerian Video Magnification
Ot watch Mathias Wandel checking vibrations with a loudspeaker and oscilloscope. Wandel is the master.
U,u
@@BerraLilltroll I saw that video (or a similar one) recently and was impressed with his technique and results. As I recall he was balancing a rotating mass with weights, but the technique could be used to identify resonate frequencies and test various damping solutions without wasting filament or waiting for test prints to finish.
Lol, you seemed so tired & disappointed by the end of the video, but you make a good point that even the failures are useful information! This has taught me that if I want to deal with vibration, I'm better off putting my time into brushing up on my old engineering courses rather than on messy, half-baked quick-fixes. Thanks for that!
FYI: I put a FDM printer on a $20K active dampening vibration table we use for laser alignment and it made no difference. I think the issue is amplitude and frequency is not consistent. What about hanging the printer from a pivot point, with a mass dampener at the other end of the pivot point? A sort of Foucalt's pendulum with a mass dampener.
What do you mean by a pivot point in printer?
I think this is the comment closest to identifying the fundamental challenge. There must be multiple resonances in the printer structure and there are certainly a multitude of stimuli when you consider acceleration and vector forces. For a Cartesian system, it is probably a problem constrained to two planes; XY and ZX. I think it’s a lot harder than it looks. The analysis would be fairly involved, I think.
Shouldn't input shaper be able to cancel out all frequencies?
Aren't vibration damping tables mostly about preventing vibration from the environment from reaching equipment? Or is it designed for vibrating equipment as well? Ultimately, I think the problem is that most of the vibration is coming from the carriage itself, which is only loosely coupled to the rest of the system, and by definition needs degrees of freedom.
The stepper and belt is the culprit. And this time alot driver help eliminate example trinamic.
The sand on a rapid-moving part was totally a mistake on my opinion. Getting down the rabit hole you could try with some mineral oil, like the ones that are inside car/bike suspensions...?
Those dampeners only work at high amplitude, low frequency vibration.
The oil in dampers only works because it gets pushed through a valve. How would you install such a valve in a 3D printer.
Yes the increase weight on the bed destroy the test. Moving parts = as light as possible Frame = as heavy as possible
@@VanDerPol watercooling tubing...?
Filled with oil it would still act like a solid.
Tom, this is such a great video! No meaningful results are still results, just as you said. Only you would build a Suspensorium Love it! I'm chasing resonance reduction as well and would be interested in how different belts affect things. You are both thorough and entertaining and it is always a pleasure watching your videos.
How about input shaper?
"No meaningful results are still results" now i know its a bad idea to fill my printer with sand.
I wouldn't describe the results as non-meaningful. They were not 'positive' in the sense that there was no improvement in the printing artifacts due to 'ringing.' But it provided some evidence that some of the 'simple' fixes do not appear to work as miracle cures, and in some cases actually made things worse.
I’ve put my printer on a square of *memory foam* . Using tick square of plywood on top so the printer doesn’t just sink into the memory foam. It works great & definitely makes the printer quieter.
I do the same, except I use a concrete tile instead of plywood and some cheap mattress foam from Amazon underneath
Another great video Tom. This is just a collection of thoughts. Sand alone isn't great at dampening. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Solution Epoxy "Granit" (a with Epoxy damped mixture of sand that is filled and compresses in forms or extrusions to minimize resonances and vibrations on Professional Machines like Kern cnc mills) Weight alone helps a bit but Weight and a Dampener works great. I would love to see the printer mounted to the paver and than placed on a 2 to 5 inch think piece of upholstery foam. Oh and i think stifer belts will make a noticabal difrence (steel cored belts, heard that there are some out there in the wild) Keep up the great work and i cant wait to see the next episode in this series and the escalation that it could bring with it.
Stop hidiing Anakiin, we all know it's you. Although you bring a fair pont about the resin but it defeats the purpose of dampening. What makes sand such a great dampener is the fact that it's loose particles that have thousands of points of friction for the energy to dissipate into heat, having it all merge with the resin just make's one solid mass that, albeit having greater inertia and therefore harder to get moving, has a single natural frequencey that it can resonate with.
@@coolbionicle I disagree unfortunately. Having a Mass that not solid makes it very hard to predict the result and I cant find a mechanical loss coefficient for loose sand. Besides that, the “granit” part of the epoxy graint its mostly a filler too minimize the amount of epoxy needed (epoxy = expensive). The epoxy provides the dampening, the Aluminum frame the needed stiffens for the machine and the Sand is just a filler. If you don't trust me go over to Adam bender her on you tube and watch his How to Build Epoxy Granite Machine Base video. He goes in more detail with Loss Coefficient vs. Young's Modulus and how to find the right ratios of sand to epoxy.
Hmm, makes sense that you shouldn't put weight on the moving parts. So I'd try the same sand setup but excluding the print bed since it's moving quickly and weighting it gives more inertia so a higher probability of skips.
This for sure. I think that will help alot.
I had the same thought. Direct drive units are intentionally light weight to avoid inducing ringing.
Also makes sense that you should put weight on the moving parts to generate a lot of comments and viewer engagement for the algorithm.
I would recommend removing the sand from the print bed. Then, run the tests again: With Feet, without feet, and then suspended. This series is great, and your willingness to be honest is appreciated.
Agree, but the suspended one is just for fun, there is no logic on continuing that other than entertainment.
Yes definitely do a video on the belts please ...... Since I starting playing around with 3d printing and my velleman k8200 many years ago you have taught me so much, and are normally the go to videos when I have a problem or just want to improve something. Keep them coming and hope to see you around for many more years to come THANK YOU Tom
So I am not the only one that got hurt playing with the k8200. Still got mine. But I don't use it since I got my Ender3 original. I since replaced to pcb on the Ender. I could maybe use the old pcb into the K8200 and try to have it run better.
@@pierremartel3552 My 8200 was a good printer even thou I have done a lot of upgrades, it was working fine up to a few months ago when I parted it out to build a bigger n better printer from scratch. It was the 8400 that I scraped after a few prints when the MB froze up putting the hot end into a thermal run away ..... after a hard reset it was still showing the hot end at almost 400c
tuned mass damper are also commonly used in skyscrapers to absorb vibrations from swaying in the wind. there's one in Taiwan where the architects famously decided to make it a tourist attraction - instead of tucking a concrete block away in some utility room they made the main damper a large shiny decorated sphere hanging in the middle of a big atrium.
Love your honesty one of the reasons why we come to you you always keep it honest so we all don't go out to the store and buy lumber and try to make what you made lol I can only imagine how many people be trying to pull out their hair cuz they couldn't get what you have thanks again for keeping it honest and real
Would absolutely love to see the belt comparisons Great video as always, always learning from your content. Keep it up
I agree. I would love to see the belt comparisons too.
@@AntiVaganza I'm fine with feeding the algorithm to help a channel that is good
Wow! I really thank you soooo much for showing all this and still be so sympathetic! Cheers a lot!
Thank you for going through everything that didn't work. I've been really curious about sand on smaller machines. I'd love to see a video on the different belts. If you could please have one cheaper belt case using an old piece belt that would be great. I honestly wonder about my belts every time I see ringing.
Or you could try Input Shaper, I sure hope that's where this is going, try a bunch of physical solutions, show they don't really work, then show the absolute magic of Input Shaper tuned with an ADXL.
Less initial vibrations for Input Shaper to negate would lead to sharper prints as it'll apply less smoothing. So removing as much resonance before using Input Shaper is the way to go. It's a shame this test wasn't shown without the sand containers on the bed axis, as that's somewhere you should be trying to remove weight on this style of printer.
@@howaboutbecause686 Exactly, the GiGo principal still applies no matter how good your software compensation, garbage in garbage out.
@@m3chanist How dare you insult the best 3D printer to ever see the light?
Interesting ideas! It might work better to put the 3d printer on legs that stick into a bucket of sand, so that there is lots of sand to absorb vibrations in the base. I am curious to see the result of a test like that!
I was going to suggest the same thing. Just place the printer in a sand box and see what happens. Hopefully it won't dig itself in. :-)
I was going to comment with the exact same thing - this feels intuitively like a good move. If you had a large, square container filled with sand and just sat the printer in it, I think you might see a difference. (Probably too slight for it to be worth it, but at least it would be cheap to try.)
I have really enjoyed these videos. Short of software resonance compensation, there are a lot of things people try, and an honest look at some of them was nice to see. Great content as always. Thank you!
I appreciate your content and the help it's given me in my 3D printing journey. I'd love to see the difference the belts make.
Awesome content as always, loving all of it 👌
Very cool video. Not vibration or resonance related, but one thing i have been curious about for a long time is how flipping the printer upside down would affect overhangs and bridges. Since any sagging will be pushed back up by the next pass of the nozzle, I would expect it to improve the results. And now you have the perfect "printer enclosure" to test it 😄 Also seeing the effect of different belts would be very interesting.
Wouldn't you literally just have the overhang problem on every layer?
@@robertbyrnes7075 I don't think so. The molten plastic is probably viscous and sticky enough to stay in place wherever it is fully supported by the previous layer. And in areas along slanted edges where it is not fully supported it will sag towards the nozzle. Which means that on the pass for the next layer the nozzle will lift the sagging but now much cooler plastic up again. As opposed to pushing it further down when printing with the nozzle pointing downwards. I find it hard to predict the end result of this interaction, but I think it might make it possible to print steeper overhangs with better quality.
Any experiment that contributes to knowledge is always welcome. Whether the output is positive or negative, it is still knowkedge that can used in future endevours. Please continue with the belt swaps to see if there is any improvement to be gained on the prints at high speeds/accelerations. Thank you Tom.
Keep this series going please. Super enternaining and gets everybody's gears going. What about non-symetric dampening setup? It could help with reducing resonation of the dampening system itself. For instance - your tesseract cube with some cables tensioned way more? Or usual dampening rubber feet but with one odd, softer/stiffer foot?
Great ideas, Thomas. The super hero prison made me laugh out loud, very accurate description of how it looks lol
Need stiffness + weight everywhere in the frame to shift the frequencies higher. That being said most ringing is due to how stepper motors work. Throw an oscilloscope on the stepper motor, then run Input shaper and compare.
More weight shifts frequencies to lower
I find most of the ringing comes from motor, belts, pulleys. Just lubricating and stabilising makes a huge difference.
Thanks for the attempt Thomas! I know I appreciate all the effort you put in these videos!
Had a good time watching this, thanks. I found vibration dampening a bit annoying too, especially when you have a wide range of excitation. Nvmd, white steel belts on heavy beds vs cheap or kevlar would be interesting indeed.
Great video, as usual. Would love to see a belt comparison video.
I just bought some motor bike gel pads, cut them to roughly 5x5x2cm and put them under the printer. They have the advantage of being able to move in all directions and completely removed all ringing. The printers still stand on massive, 5cm thick sandstone slabs and those are on rubber mats, which results in an de-coupled, non resonating table and a still free moving printer While moving fast, you can see the gel visibly shaking and shifting the printer as it absorbs the energy, but the printer never moves on the gel itself. this might be worth a try if you have ringing and/or noise issues printer: prusa i3 mk3s
Have had a similar plans. Was thinking of using a section of 1-2cm thick exercise mat under a large concrete paver with gel on top. Do the feet of the printer dig into the 2cm gel pads? Thomas should test this.
@@Trevellian I removed the feat for this exact reason, didn't even try it out. One thing I found out is that the size of the gelpad has a direct influence on the movement of the printer, the smaller the pad the more it moved. I sliced them down from 5x10cm to 5x5cm and the change was noticeable when pushing the printer to one direction it is important that you enforce the table you put the stone on since it weighs a ton and it will bend your (possibly cheap) table. I enforced mine by placing a solid 3cm thick wooden board on top (no screws required)
Very interested in the belt comparison video. I found early on in continuous belt platforms (CoreXY) that there are parametric resonances that crosstalk in abrupt vector changes, leading to ringing artifacts. I used accelerometers and a 35670a dynamic signal analyzer to capture the response of the gantry vs the head. Data is on e3d's forum. I came to believe, but did not follow up on the idea of tuned dashpots that the belts can ride on... (shock absorbing idler pulleys)... might be a trick to try. Thanks for the hard work, Tom!
Appreciate all the efforts you do. I would be very interested in the belt test - looking at making a scaled up printer and starting to consider "length of belt" and stretch.
How well does Printer->Concrete Tile->Dampening Material (Rubber, Foam, etc)->Concrete Tile work?
It would be interesting to test different materials, or even make some Scooby-Doo esque multi-layer sandwich of materials!
Also Bolts vs Just Setting it On Top
I think you may get some interesting results if you modified the springs on the tesseract. What it is now is a vibration isolator not a damper. All of the vibrations made by the printer stay within the system. If you think about vibration dampers on cars there are two parts, the spring and the actual damper or shock absorber. The tesseract set up is only spring and does not have the best damping qualities.
Good job! Thanks for doing these experiments.
Just wanted to say thank you for all that you have done and continue to do to help the community improve our printers and skills. You and a couple other content creators out there are doing amazing things for the community that are just as important, if not more than what companies like Prusa do to continually advance all aspects of 3D printing. Again, I would like to convey a sincere whole hearted thank you!!!
thank you so much, I really appreciate your words!
Back in the late 1980s, some of the scientific equipment vendors, such Edmund Scientific, sold rubber ball kits for physics demonstrations. One ball would be a standard rubber ball and would bounce as such. The other ball would sometimes be called a dead ball as it wouldn't bounce. The idea was to show how energy could transferred in one direction (bounce) or dispersed in multiple simultaneous directions (dead). At that time, the dead balls were of particular interest in the amateur holography scene as lasers weren't very powerful and the holographic process was extremely sensitive to vibrations. I don't know if the dead balls or material are still available but if still available, that could be an interesting test.
They are called squash balls and are available from most sports shops
Anakin hates this video so much
You got lots of points! Sometimes involving plastics or other absorbent material. Thanks for making this video.
Excellent video! Thanks for being honest and detailing so much. Honestly I would just install klipper and use resonance compensation. Done. Huge improvement for my CR10.
You could try small dampers from RC trucks. They are sprung and oil filled. This will actually adjust the frequencies instead of just adjusting the amplitudes. You need to absorb some energy, elastic straps provide almost no damping effect. I dont understand the fascination with optimizing single variables. It would be far more effective to increase the stiffness of the frame by putting braces on it or adding gussets at the connection. Damping a wet noodle is pointless. Brace it until it is rigid the dampen it. Otherwise you are finding ways to dampen a frequency that is irrelevant and ineffective. At least the oil filled damper would effect a far wider spectrum of frequencies and it is tunable using different weight oils.
Small dampers for belt tensioners, shouldnt help with skips but maybe will with resonanses. For skips you decrease moving mass or increase motor power.
@@Gebsfrom404 Wasnt thinking for belts. The exercise in the video is about dampening the vibration of the frame. I was thinking if they wanted to put the frames on an elastic base then could mount the dampers to the table. This way the elastics or flexible bases allow movement but the oil filled dampers absorb vibration. As for belt tensioners I ended up using a small coil spring from a brake drum hardware kit (had a lot of them)... it is used as a retention spring to hold the brake shoes to the backing plate... around 19mm diameter and 25mm tall compression spring... pretty stiff. Then I preloaded it with a threaded rod running through it to a yoke holding the belt pulley. Any compression spring would work as long as it is stiff enough to maintain control of the belt.
7:54 Hot glue is amazing. It allows for quick prototyping, you can undo it with a little isopropyl alcohol for a quick adjustment, and if it works it'll last for years. Heck, that 3D printer motherboard probably has hot glue (badly applied, no doubt) on it's motherboard connectors.
Wait, is it *soluble* in Isopropanol?!? Could you make new sticks with dissolved old glue?
@@ericlotze7724 Not soluble. It doesn't dissolve. But it does stop sticking and comes right off. I don't know what exactly is happening, but it loses all adhesive properties.
@@3dpprofessor Ah Ok! I Guess I’ve been thinking too much about my plots for Polystyrene and Acetone! (and Potentially Re-forming those Water Soluble Supports, although this is more debatable too)
KZhead in parts seems to be more honest than most the research journals - also presenting what did not work, or what did not make the greatest WOW !!! effect. thanks so much
subscribed just because of your honesty about the results. GOOD VID
9:35 The look of mischievous glee in your face when you suggest dropping the ender 3 is something we need more off.. Like how much abuse can a printer take before it effects printing quality (destruction Derby for 3d printers / I'm sure we can make 'scientific' valid conclusions from this 'experimental' printer abuse)
Why did you add weight to the moving parts? Obviously that wouldn't work. The question was if sand in the *non*-moving parts would make a difference.
I love your Sciency thinking. Please keep valuing it as this sets you greatly apart from typical KZhead content we all got used to! - You briefly mentioned the additional mass on the printbed might harm the print quality. I totally agree. I would have tried again withouout those printbed Santainers, maybe even adding them elsewhere… - I highly value the additional mass on the printer. The bigger the mass difference between bed and printer body, the more recoil you can convert into printbed acceleration. - A tip from back in the days (experience with laser interferometry in physics lab): For effective (nearly critical) dampening of alu extrusion profiles instead of pure frequency shifting fill the profiles with silicone (not silicon - Fugensilikon, nicht Silizium ;-) This also greatly assists survivability of your mechanical components when compared to sand… I would love to know the frequency range of problematic ringing. This would hugely narrow down the root of the evil (profile bending, profile ringing, belt stiffness etc.) okok, I’m getting to scientific. Looking forward to the engineering way of life: try it out! :-D
Thanks for sharing yout results! I would love to see how belts affect the ringing on the printer, even if the effect is non-existent. I would also like to see that the sand weights do when they are on non moving parts of the ptinter.
This one of your best videos, thank you
I would love to watch a thorough analysis of performing system identification and tuning a spring and damper to the resulting model. Bonus points if you can explore different geometries of the printed feet for different frequencies!
I have the Ender3 V2, so thank you for the effort. Interesting results!
Thanks for sharing!
Good educational video. I've ordered some vibration dampening feet for a washing machine, will see if this helps.
Great content ! Love the pro video you do now
Großartiges Video! Wie immer hast Du sehr Mühe gegeben, dass machen nur wenige KZheadr.
Absolutely loved your scientific approach and honest results!
Great fun! Lots of good ideas. I heard this video mentioned quite a bit at MRRF this past weekend.
Thomas great video like always. Thank you
I'm glad you did this so we didn't have to do it😀 Other than couple of foam pads from printer box under the feet i gave up on everything else.
I Love the creativity in these ideas. It would be interesting to see what measurements with klipper and an accelerometer you would get from the different modifications.
This was fantastic. And thank you so much for testing things out. I was very curious as to the outcome, especially the sand damped tests. It also makes sense that BMW used such a complicated series of dampers. But in the industrial and aerospace worlds, there is a simpler solution - avoid the areas of operation that induce harmful resonances! In a light aircraft, this could be as simple as a plaque that says "Do not run propeller at RPM between 2500 and 2550 for more than 5 minutes". Or for a larger aircraft, a redesign of the vibration causing components, to shift their resonances rather than compensate in other areas. Where the moving masses are controlled by stepper motors, that's the obvious place to control vibrations. Match the speeds and accelerations to avoid areas of resonance. That's not cheating or a hack! That's proper design. Love your channel and the work that you do...not intended as a slight at all. That I learned that a printer will work upside down is worth more than the price of admission. To me that means it's just a matter of time before there's a 3d printer in space.
With that many skipping steps, I'd start looking into bumping up the stepper motor voltage via the driver pots. I'm curious whether fixing those skipped steps make the 'sandtainer' approach work at all, if only because stuffing them wherever they fit just kinda looks cool. But also, resonance tuning in software is way easier and very effective.
Great video Tom! I want to suspend my printer in a similar cube now just for looks! I have been running squash balls on my printers (like smaller less bouncy racket balls), they do a fairly good job of damping lower frequencies and I have seen a notable improvement on all of my printers (They're also notably quieter which is nice). Maybe again pure luck like your dampers but I would love to see the results characterized! I would also love to see the experiment with belts!
I went through the trouble of getting Klipper working on my Ender 3 V2 for resonance tuning using an accelerometer (and Klipper's implementation of pressure advance works with the stepper drivers hardwired into legacy mode on a stock V2). It worked incredibly well and the Ender's frame and motion system is surprisingly stiff, allowing the use of the better dampening algorithms that provide compensation without excessive smoothing of corners.
Love your content. And yes I would quite enjoy a belt comparison video. I feel over the years I put so much time, money and effort into my Ender 3 it would be financial irresponsible to stop now! I need the best belts! 😂
Those all seemed like good ideas. Thanks for letting us know they don't work! You saved a lot of people a lot of time!
FWIW, I put my Prusa i3 mk2 on a paving stone and under the paving stone I put a rectangular inflatable chair cushion (i.e. anti bedsore inflatable cushion for a wheel chair). Primarily I did this to reduce the sound, since the homemade wooden workbench I set my printer on was amplifying the vibrations of the printer. I can pretty much only hear the loud stock fans now.
Yes, absolutely do the belt tests. When I build a precision laser plotter, I used steel strengthened belts, that was before I switched to ball screws, so much better
Great experiment. Thank you!
VERY COOL. Great video! This is the importance of science though, even if the results are not amazing. Keep it up, as I think eventually you will be finding something that does work quite well!
Cheers for experimenting so we don't have to. Curious if/how different dampening materials/fluids attached just to static frame components would help, or not. Detaching power supply and fan cooled controller board. Decouple spool. Basically isolate everything possible.
On the UH60 BlackHawk Helicopter, we have tuned masses on springs that we test and tune to the aircraft to dampen unwanted vibrations, on the new model, there are counter rotating electromechanical vibration dampers that actively cancel unwanted frequencies.
I was thinking the same thing you are. you doing it means I won't waste my time thank you.
H! Great work - being systematic as presented makes the most sense in such a research. Different belts? - Hell Yes! I've switched to genuine Gates after factory Creality went bad - I've noticed less ringing - yet that could be biased. God tool to help would be Klipper Resonance Compensation, and it's measurements with plots. I've observed changes while belt tension being alternated, or X axle configuration changed. Best regards!
Yes, we are interested! :D Thank you for the effort ;)
Awesome video Thomas! I would love to see a follow up with with the different belts. Thanks for the entertainment, It's much appreciated.
Thank you for making the portmanteau of "sandtainers." I will now add that to my vocabulary.
Hi, Great video. Thanks for trying this. I have a big problem with noise prim my printer (Anycubic Chiron) with the bed movement. I have tried everything I can think of with no effect. Next is to change the belt. I would love to know if this has any impact before I rip my printer apart. Thanks.
One thing that I found to minimize vibration and stepper sounds is to add a bearing to the other side of the motor. I used a v slot wheel that just happened to fit my set up.
Thanks for sharing something that didn't work! Really important in times of rampant reporting bias.
The last time i do something similar i made a weight, attached with some belts/rope to every axle so that it have some "Vorspannung". This improves the quality a lot. Of course with pulleys so that gravity can work in X and Y Axis
If you are interested in another possible idea, you could try a magnetic isolation table. Not sure it is would help here, but they were helpful in reducing the amount of vibration from the environment to some smaller laser test setups. Great set of test videos.
Belt tightness would be nice too see demonstrated. I keep mine super tight and it did remove a LOT of artifacts. I know the stepper motor bearings are stressed more but.. 4 years at supertight.. i am happy to buy new ones by now and keep the practice.
Tom, as always you have excellent videos. Your videos actually made me start building my Voron. I feel that maybe a different type of rubber foot with a weight may dampen better. I would be interested in seeing if different belts change the resonance of the machine. My only thought would be; if a different type of belt is used, what would be the longevity of the belt itself. Cheers!
Your content is always captivating! Have you tried using those gel filled stress balls for feet or something filled with a Newtonian fluid? Love the wacky ideas, not brave enough to try them myself aaaaand that's why notifications are getting switched on - think I've missed a few vids recently
Try kitchen cabinet gas struts: these should (sort of?) work like a dampner, either in a base (z) and/or pushing against each other in the same axis (x & y). They are also rated at different forces so you can play with that.
I would like for this series to continue on in general! I'm actually curious on your thoughts of Klipper's resonance compensation. Does it truly work, how much of an improvement, etc? I know you like "stock" but maybe if resonance compensation via electrical means becomes popular enough it may become a stock feature!
It works amazingly well, but dont expect Tom to use it anytime soon. He had a bit of a run in with the toxic side of the Klipper comunity when he did his Voron serise.
It works extremely well for ghosting.
I set it up some month ago on my old first gen Ender 3 with an ADXL345 sensor and a RasPi. It's working well way beyond expectations, so I'm able to print complex parts (many corners) much faster now. Ghosting is nearly impossible to generate before reaching the limits of my extruder on normal parts.
Sand was common for audiophiles for a short time to deaden platforms and it did work but then things like soundproofing sheets ended that. One thing I am testing is turntable spikes/isolators. They are little 2 part metal pucks that either have a spike that fits In a cup foot or use a steel ball between 2 metal plates. They work well and so far are stopping a lot of transfer from the printer to the table.
i used the silicon columns instead of spring and it helps alot and i rarely have to adjust it now also
Thomas, love your reviews and the the great ideas you come up with for testing stuff. SSOOoooooo heres one for you but it would have to be done on a core XY machine. You have suspended the machine but how about building the four corners supported by something like cinder block while its on a concrete block. So you would have all the corners being held in place by blocks to prevent any form of movement or vibration. Maybe a bit overkill and it would weigh a LOT but it would theoretically only have the print head causing the vibration. Keep up the excellent work and reviews. I am still dealing with my tronyxy A5sa, a nightmare in a box!!
I set my printer on a heavy paving stone that is sitting on top of a thick piece of packing foam. I did it for acoustics but I think it makes a difference in resonance artifacts too. I guess it makes sense that they'd be connected.
You have great integrity man. I wonder if It would be possible to print various spring attached weights to take out specific resonances..
I would watch a video where you try a bunch of different belts for sure, but I was also thinking about those sea anemone looking things archers put on modern bows to dampen vibrations and I would be interested to see the results!
i just have a large foam padding below it, the one that came with the package, seems to help to spread the vibrations
Nice work. Is it an idea to see what it dous, when you lift the printer from the table by supporting it underneeth the bed, and let the printer move around the bed instead of the otherway arond, like a printerslinger?
I absolutely would like to see a belt comparison! I had steel belts on my coreXY, but quite a few people told me that they couldn't handle the speed of the machine. Count me in!