Pentagon Wars - Bradley Fighting Vehicle Evolution
2011 ж. 9 Мам.
3 850 854 Рет қаралды
From the movie "Pentagon Wars". Bradley Fighting Vehicle design and development. Any design engineer will love this scene.
From the movie "Pentagon Wars". Bradley Fighting Vehicle design and development. Any design engineer will love this scene.
"If we don't understand our own military doctrine then our enemies sure as hell can't."
That's legit how the germans saw the american army in WW2.
@@guiterrorist The US had demobilized after WWI while European countries kept their arms race going. In 39 the US had a 4th rate army, coming after Romania. I see no shame in this, just the opposite as the country had two large oceans protecting it and was busy building and growing. Marshall was sworn in as COS september 1st 1939, the day Germany invaded Poland. This was a signpost that the US were preparing for war. It was also understood that the first battles wouldn't favor green troops and that they would take some beatings at the beginning like at Kasserine. A German attaché posted in washington during the late 30s would have reported the US as militarily irrelevant . In my opinion Yamamoto understood the war potential of the US. It wasn't a matter of means but of focus and motivation.
@@mikecimerian6913 it makes me remember the Iwo Jima Movie when the officers prota seays he saw how the americans were building cars and trains and was right about to fear an enemy with those industrial capabilities.
The doctrine is SPEND PUBLIC MONEY, MAKE ARMS INDUSTRIES RICHER, AND KEEP THE BUDGET TILTED FOR IT
@@mikecimerian6913 agree with the concept, but just to point out almost all of the European powers demilitarised in the interwar period. Part of the reason chamberlain appeased was to buy some time to rearm the nation
“Say! Can this thing go to the moon?” “No sir” “Why not! Sounds like a design flaw!”
Sir its a troop carrier! xD
@@danielkubin3878 it could be a moon carrier!
Just put some DOGE coin on it.
@@timothytimothy4854 lol when you said "moon carrier" I thought you meant "to carry the moon"
*_Just slap a rocket booster on it and call it a day_*
This movie and the book it was based on were written by a guy who basically tried to make a career out of taking down Bradley as a project because he was linked to a wider group of Pentagon insiders adjacent to the fighter mafia, who were critical of the kind of new tech-heavy weapons systems being procured by the military during the 60s, 70s and 80s. The makers of the film make its arguments about the Bradley seem very convincing to a civilian audience, but they leave out a lot of key context and details about what kind of vehicle the Bradley was meant to be, what happened during its development and how successful it ended up being.
bloody reformers propaganda
@@cube_2593 which ended in USA having top resistant and accurate firepower IFV +also top fighters in the sky. All interconnected =key advantage in finding & capturing targets (+prevent own Friendly fire). So please throw away all dumb ideological wars, it is COOPERATION, as usual, what wins upon greedy chRussia-installed dictators, again trying "new world lie order".
Wut? There is lot usa culture in here, can you put it more simply ?
@@DamplyDooThis movie is based on a book by a man called Burton. In simple terms, Burton was heavily critical of the designs of several military vehicles, specifically the Bradley tank shown here. However, he based his criticisms on rigged tests and a misunderstanding of the purpose of the vehicle's design. In his book, detailing his account of his arguments with military higher-ups during his "career", he makes himself out to be the sensible and well-meaning critic and everyone else in the miliary hierarchy as beaurocratic and unresponsive to criticism. However, due to lots of details I can't list here for brevity and context, he is not the smart amazing person he portrays in his book, and his arguments were dismissed for good reason. The tank he criticised was also extremely successful on the battlefield, and Burton purely focusses on and overblows any failure. It would be like criticising a car because it always crashed, but your only data comes from 2 car crash reports and not the 100 other incidents where the vehicle drives safely and no one is injured. However, due to the distrust of the government following the Vietnam War, lots of people were eager to listen to anyone critical of the US military heirarchy, and even though Burton's arguments were very flawed, people lapped it up due to the culture of the time. However, Burton and several of his like-minded colleagues have now moved on to other enterprises and haven't done any military work since. Burton even quit the military like a child once he was told to work on other projects, instead of the tank shown in the clip above. He didn't want to help, he wanted to be listened to and be hailed as a hero for redesigning a tank to be worse than it was before. But when no one listened he quit and wrote a book about his experiences, making himself out to be the hero. For one example of his sage wisdom (and I'm paraphrasing from his book here) he was asked to include a radar into a vehicle, to track other tanks. In response, Burton said "What if you use the radar and accidentally shoot refugees instead of an enemy tank? See? Radars are useless." No, I'm not joking. This is the calibre of criticism from this so-called "Reformer".
Still very entertaining, though it could probably use a proper documentary to get the facts out.
Came here as soon as I heard that two Bradleys just defeated a T-90M using only it’s 25mm guns
This aged so well 🤣
Yeah, Bradley is a really good machine. And Col. Burton is a liar.
Same here
Not bad for a “quasi tank that has less armor than a snowblower (but) got enough ammo to take out half of DC”.
this man who made this book lied the bradly was under budget and was always meant to be what it was an all rounder. @@raymondyee2008
As a former Bradley driver...you know what would have been nice....AIR CONDITIONING!!!!
That'd cost another seat
u can wear the air conditioning as your pants....
Haha :D if its any consolation, at least I am sure the command office had ample air condition.
Christopher Buhr Doesn't the Bradley have an NBC system that you can put in your pants for air conditioning?
AC means being cool, being cool means comfort, comfort means being relaxed, relaxed means drowsiness, drowsiness means youll fall asleep. Sorry that's a no go.
They made a movie about the engineer who designed this, it was called 'Falling Down'
I see that you're a man of culture
"I'm not *economically viable*."
Actually, Michael Douglas's character in Falling Down is fictitious.
😂
😂😂😂
I love this movie, but after 2 deployments to Baghdad as an Infantry Bradley driver and dismount I love the Bradley even more. It was almost perfect for our needs in Baghdad. We got that thing with it's track turning capability through some of the tightest streets in the city.
I was actually asking about this in my comment above; doesn’t the US and the army personnel love this thing? I’ve heard Navy Seals on podcasts talk about how great they were. Seems like a troop carrier that also had some heavy weaponry on it is a good thing.
personally, I do believe Bradley in a great weapon in terms of fighting against terrorist. It's large, it's comfortable, it has a lot of ammunition, and the most important it has air-condition. However, bradley migh not fit perfectly in the roll of fighting against the soviet, which is what it's designed for. It is too large in terms of size, too expensie in terms of cost and too weak when facing the widly-equipped advanced rocket laucher, 30mm,100mm and tank gun in the soviet army. So this should leave yourself to decide.
@Idk bro well, the thing is, if the cold war turned into a hot war, Bradley need, and have to at least hold the attack from the enemy's IFV's , which include 100mm gun, 30mm automatic cannon 14.5mm machine gun and some RPG-7 equipped by the infantry. If a Bradley can't even defend against that, then Bradley won't be a good IFV and shouldn't be in the battlefield because it can't even transporting the troop safely into the battlefield and moving forward with the tank, which is the whole point of the existence of the IFV itself.
@Idk bro By the way, during the cold war era, soviet always has a way larger tank fleet than NATO. So this means if the wat actually has happened, one Bradley has a very high chance to not only faces enemy's IFV, but also main battle tanks by themselves ONLY. This also should put into consideration.
@Idk bro well, to be fair, T-55 and T-62 aren't that obsolete consider that the NATO forces operated M-60 and Leopard 1 during the 80s, which is basically the same level as the above two. Besides, they also received upgrade includes better armor, new site and better gun, which is known as T-55m and T-62m series as of today. So they aren't that obselete. Also, the amount of these old tanks only is about half of the entire soviet fleet. Soviet also has a huge amount of more advanced T-72, T-80 and T-64, which is roughly 20,000, still way more than the Leopard2A4 and M1 with 120mm gun that NATO has in the 80s. So your statement about NATO has an upper hand on soviet is wrong. Also, the reason that Russia still operates T-62 series even today isn't because they don't have enough advanced tank. No, they have a huge, yes, HUGE piles of T-72 and T-80 in stock. The main reason is because it's cost-effective. The operation cost of T-62 is way cheaper than the T-72, T-80 and T-90 and it performance is enough to deal with terriost and polar bears. It's really not they can't swtich to newer tank. It's because it's enought to fulfil the role.
Just watched the Bradley Knock out a T-90. "The General says add more ammo"
The irony indeed from this scene in the movie.
Didn't knock it out. Ukraine propaganda.
@@wsbchk_well: its turret spun out of control, they panicked and drove it against a big tree, and the crew left, as they didn’t want to wait for the finishing drone strike, artillery strike or whatever they assumed to be next… It’s not knocked out, but it’s abandoned and useless in it’s current state and location.
@@Stadtpark9025mm must have damaged hydraulics somehow. Definitely a tank russia wants to recover and inspect it so it doesn’t happen again.
It didn't knock it out, but that's the M3 Bradley which is the improvement on the design and as closer to its original concept, not the M2 monstrosity that's featured here.
"El presidente chimichanga" As a south american i approve and pledge to vote for El Presidente chimichangas
Olé!
Viva nuestro presidente Chimichanga!!
As El Presidente Chimichanga I declare we will nationalize the exploitative capitalist salsa companies to repatriate the supply so I can jump naked into a deep pool of salsa at the presidential palace.
Yo te secundo
Penultimo is pleased that you voted correctly
I just noticed that the colonel keeps losing more and more hair over time
I had to review the video just to confirm this.
Wooh look at that, it does loose its hair!
Also the portraits of the POTUS XD All the way from L. Johnson to Reagan
He's been a bird colonel for so long...he lost the hair but grown feathers
And once he becomes general, his hair is all but gone
Meanwhile in Britain. "Who designed this." "Three nutters in a shed." "Excellent."
*laughs in Ajax vibrations*
"Nice"
That seems to fit L96 rifle and some other bits?
@@martinsvilands7334 the most impressive from that list would be the bouncing bomb. Though technically that was invented by an eccentric toff in his back garden.
Meanwhile in Australia: "Who designed this sub-machine gun?" "Some teenager illicitly manufacturing guns in his garage, sir." "Bloody excellent. Approve it for mass production!"
The Bradley was developed as an IFV from the start in response to the Soviet BMP-1 IFV. An IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle) is a step up from an APC (Armored Personnel Carrier). The BMP-1 carried infantry, had gunports for the infantry to fire their AK's from the inside, had a turret with a 73mm gun, a 7.62mm machinegun and had an Anti-Tank Guided Missile Launcher. So, unsurprisingly, the US and other NATO nations wanted to match that.
An IFV isn’t necessarily a step up from an APC. It’s a completely different doctrinal niche.
@@deriznohappehquite The term "step up" is not very technical, I admit, but in the sense that an IFV is an AFV that isn't an MBT but has more combat capabilities than an APC while still carrying infantry...that's my point.
@@richardjames1812 I’d describe the difference as “an APC is designed to drop off infantry and then go home. An IFV stays with the infantry and provides support on the line of contact.”
@@deriznohappehquite I could go with that definition (though APC's don't "go home" they remain in the AO). So, sounds like the IFV is a "step up" then? Again, not a technical term, but suitable.
Yes it was always meant to be a fighting vehicle not an "armored taxi" the movie is historically inaccurate. Fun movie and funny but none of this movie is true.
"Do you want me to put a sign at it in 50 languages that says 'I'm a troop carrier, don't shoot at me!'?"
😂😂😂
"Ich bin ein Truppentransporter, kein Panzer! Bitte verschwendet eure Granaten nicht an mir!"
"Je suis un transporteur de troupes, ne me tirez pas dessus"
"Я бронетранспортёр. Не стреляйте в меня!"
Em là xe chở lính đừng bắn em
"Of course steel is much heavier than aluminum. So it won't go as fast." The way he says it is pitch perfect. Like he's pointing at a picture book drawn in crayon.
His delivery is what makes so many of the lines work.
"But, steel is heavier than feathers"
@Central Intelligence Agency I don get att.
You are aware the m113 The troop Carrier used for most of the Vietnam war and still in service with several Nations today was constructed out of aluminum right
Richard Schiff is one amazing actor, that's all I'm here to say.
Fun fact: the guy who wrote and provided the information for pentagon wars not only lied the entire way through the book, most of his credentials are also made up. Turns out, he was the one who had no idea what the actual vehicle was designed for in the first place, nor did he have any idea what the tests being done were trying to demonstrate.
A fellow Laserpig fan?
i see you are person of culture
It does highlight the insanity of US bureaucracy but yeah the whole point is this group of "reformers" (basically old rich people) who wanted to make men fight like it was the 1920's again. Low technology very cheap vehicles and throw men at the problem until it's gone. They used various methods like propaganda movies to convince people and were basically a pain in the ass to the military for a while.
True, but as Chopper Read put it best: "Don't let the truth get in the way of a good yarn."
Um sweet summer child? I think Lazer pig already DEBOOKNED this.
“In a few more months we could get this thing to fly” Don’t tell Mike Sparks
The AeroBradley is a far more credible option than the Gavin.
This aged like fine wine.Those mines sure make bradleys fly!
@@UsudUsud-ly9qr Almost half as high as the BMPs And the blokes inside have a higher likelihood of survival, than in BMPs, as well.
I've worked in large corporations. This made me laugh until I cried. Mostly cried.
lol less armour then a snowblower I loved that one
I'm working at a tech company. The general idea is the same, someone at the top gets an idea and everyone else has to figure out how to make it viable.
Welcome to the US military and its dumb ass leaders
There, there (hug).
@@skylinegtr_1220 I Hope not damage your patriotism 😂 but I think military leaders are quite similar in many countries
"They're building it??" -Boeing engineers after being forced to redeisgn the B52 for 4 years
Considering they are still using those Buffs I say they did a fine job
That's because they let Boeing engineers give some input and designed it to be a bigass long range bomber. If they let the Bradley committee design the B52 it would also be a dive bomber, a VTOL, and amphibious
@@arthas640 *F-35 says hello
@@adamosterstrand3057 The "35" stands for how many roles it can fill. It's a VTOL fighter, strike fighter, light bomber, flying battleship, entrenchment tool, cargo plane, spy plane, and mobile a super sonic troop transport all rolled into 1 machine. The only problem is for the price of 1 F-35 they could just build 35 other planes to do every other job and still have enough left over to just pay the enemy troops to give up without putting up a fight.
ironically , many said this exact same thing about the A-10 Thunderbolt II " Warthog" which served , what , 4 decades ? the Bradley ,however , is not the Warthog. smh, this video was funny & I didn't know the preposterous feature bloat of this vehicle. Thanks!👍🏻⭐
"I've been a Bird Colonel so long I'm growing feathers". This one hits home. My dad was Commissioned a 2nd Lieutenant (Army) in 1979. He was promoted to 1st LT after 3 months. He made Captain after 3 years. He made Major after 7 years of service in 1986. He retired in 1999 after 20 years of service as a Major. He was in the Artillery and after Desert Storm he had two options; 1. Go from full time Army, to part-time Army (Reserves), or 2. Go be a jailer at Fort Leavonworth. He took the Leavenworth job, but he wasn't happy about it. He retired and has a nice pension now. He works in Sports Medicine now. He's happy.
Good for the him! He earned it. Sad to see history repeat again with Obama cuts back in 2012. So many officers left behind or kicked out who had served honorably and courageously during GWOT.
bit late but that's some major props to him, pun intended... my regards to him for his dedication
He must have had integrity, something that doesn't promote you as fast as building junk to sell to gullible allies.
Why didn't he go for reserves?
But he never made it to colonel so how does this hits home. You must be mentally disabled
"Do you want me to put a sign on it in fifty languages 'I'm a troop carrier, not a tank please don't shoot at me'"? Has me in stitches.
Unlike the m113, which will also fold like wet cardboard under fire.
I guess burton just thought that enemy’s would refuse to fire on enemy vehicles without turrets.
".....use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun." -An Engineer, on solving problems.
Might as well called it "2nd Amendment Fighting Vehicle".
Nighthawk more like US army in an nutshell
Hahaha I remember that tf2 quote
Kinda sounds how tanks in 40k Warhammer works. What 3 cannons not enough, 2 turrets and 2 side guns not enough? Lets add another turret and 3 more cannons and 2 more forward guns
@@UstraMage and many, many .50 cal
As an engineer. This is almost exactly how the conversations go with clients who are not engineers or designers minus the tank.
Cries in Mechanicus relatus...... Translation: as an engineer i feel you bro
being an architect this is where you have to say well you can have one or the other if we do both you will get neither of what you desired.
To be fair, people even engineers tend to get comfortable and go down the same road over and over. Sometimes it's needed that someone pushes the envelope forcing the engineers and designers to think outside of the box. Pentagon wars is of course an example of how bad this can go, but sometimes you shouldn't just take what the engineer presents as the first solution. I work in a different field, business intelligence. But many times we have been presented with a run-of-the-mill solution and only by pressing and pushing the programmers to do things they at first said couldn't be done.
@@nikolajwinther5955 Maybe but if they say it won't work listen to them.
@@nikolajwinther5955 Seriously if you open by saying that to engineers, "we want you to think outside the box/ innovate" let them do it, politics are bad enough in regard to these projects
The crazy part is that the Bradley is a success. It was largely developed to counter the Soviet BMP vehicles (Боевая Машина Пехоты - (lit. infantry combat vehicle) and during Desert Storm in 1991, there were over 2000 Bradley's deployed to Iraq and only 3 were disabled by enemy. Meanwhile the Bradley destroyed more enemy vehicles combined than the M1 Abrams throughout the entire war. So this "troop carrier that doesn't carry troops" was actually a success... in a manner of speaking. I vastly prefer the engineering behind the M-1117 myself. In fact I'd rather be in that OR a Stryker/MRAP cougar class of vehicle if I had to move into a combat location... I understand Bradleys are NOT a comfy ride. But the Bradley has earned its place of honor among American fighting vehicles.
Its true, the bradley absolutely slapped when it got deployed in iraq. This movie is a comedy about government spending and has almost no basis in reality
Meanwhile the German army still has ca 450 M113 in use ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's being taken out by homemade kamikaze drones with a 1kg payload. No one wants to ride in them. Big success.
ODS isn't a very good example seeing as how the ground war was only 100 hours . And during the Iraq war 150 were destroyed with 700 damaged.
@@LabiaLicker ODS is a perfect example because it showed that the bradley performed exactly the way it was expected to. I mean what do you suggest, 1v1's?
"Just squeeze them in" "We are not trying on Levi's here sir!" there are jokes scattered all over this film I did not understand before!
Can you please tell me the title? Is this a kind of series or a part of longer movies? It's just hilarious🤣
@@guzt3680" Pentagon Wars", it's in the title ;P
@@MrJonathanTeatime lol, did't notice it was the movie title🤣
Can't wait for the sequel featuring the F35 Lightning.
I'm pretty sure you could make a whole movie franchise with how many time stuff like this happen in real life.
You forgot about the F22 to begin with. YF-23 Widow did better in all but 1 reguard, low speed manuvers... this is a high speed supersonic stealth jet. And they built the F-22 instead, which costs 4x as much for the exact same role.
Carrack090 Yep. because Lockheed Martin owns more Senate/House seats, that's why. They would have won the contract no matter what.
Pretty much agree with the F-35 (because of the compromise for STOVL B-variant with the Marines and Royal Navy really screwing with the fuselage of the A- and C- variants), but regarding the replies below, the F-22 may not have been a bad choice over the YF-23, as much as I love Northop/McDonnnel Douglas. Aerial dogfights have been dismissed time and time (WWII - monoplanes too fast, pilots still get into melee; Korea - jets too fast, but nimble MiG-15s and F-86s still end up prevailing; Vietnam - there are missiles, but guns still end up back on F-4 fighters; even fourth-generation fighters such as the F-15 with its massive radar and BVR capabilities have had to fall back on their guns during engagements; that's why even advanced fourth-generation and fifth-generation fighters still have cannons), again, but countermeasures (chaff, flares) are getting better too, while technology (BVR missiles such as AAMRAMs) including counter-counter measures will always be subject to murphy's law. The F-22 was slightly less stealthy and fast as the YF-23 (those facts are true of course), but it can still supercruise given the powerful twin F119s and the fact that it also carried its weapons internally (aerodynamic advantage), which makes it a good interceptor (real top speed remained classified as well for quite a while). As well as an all-aspect air-superiority fighter with the much higher maneuverability thrust vectoring gave it. Plus there was no guarantee that the YF-23's costs would stay down should it have been chosen to advance, after all, the philosophy of fifth generation fighters is - fewer, more expensive, stealthy aircraft. Lockheed Martin raised hte price on the F-35 after it advanced further in the JSF, why wouldn't Northrop do it for their stealth aircraft? Look at how the prices soared for the B-2. I'm not gonna defend the price, I'll admit it's still pretty pricey, but even with its high maintenance costs on top of the price, it's still a much better than the F-35A, which aside from stealth pretty much is a bunch of really good avionics stuffed into a terrible fuselage with rocketing costs (it's a good strike aircraft at least). Initially an additional factor for the F-22 over the YF-23 was its potential for the U.S. Navy with the short-takeoff possibility thrust vectoring offered (but of course they never took it and now are going for the F-35C).
Carrack090 tl;dr on my reply xD great to talk to a fellow enthusiast though
What I love about this part of the movie: It shows the passage of time through pictures instead of text. The presidents portraits changing, the uniforms updating, the Generals getting promoted, the colonel balding. Subtleties like this are missing in modern movies.
Loved that, although I always thought they were saying he went bald *because* of this project 😂
Correction: missing in modern hype movies. You can still find subtlety and creativity in plenty of movies these days. Just gotta move away from the hype-train "blockbusters".
This comment is the film industry equivelant to "today's music is so bad"
@@dwagincon4841 I agree with both of those statements.
@@dwagincon4841 Good or bad is an opinion. Its certainly less sophisticated.
"We're a hair over budget" -Every DoD project ever conceived
Hilariously enough, except for the Virginia class submarines and the M2 Bradley itself.
@Idk bro those shipbuilders are really good at what they do.
Except for that Bradley project, wich ended up being under budget by the end of it.
Except B-21 Riader!
Not true at all. Both the Bradley and the F-15 programs ended up underbudget
I want to say "in hindisght, what a clueless movie this is", but the Bradley had more tank kills than the Abrams even back in Desert Storm, so there's really no excuses
Fun fact: In the modern day military acquisitions world, this movie is used as training material... as an example of how the acquisitions process is NOT supposed to work.
So does everyone sleep through it?
Yet...it still operates that way.
@@CaesarInVa by Congressmen/politicians, not generals/active military members.
And yet fighter jets are a fucking mess...
@@txman276 if you think that's an "America only" problem....
The definition of an Elephant, "A mouse built to government specifications."
Heinlein? I'm detecting a hint of Time Enough for Love, but I'm too lazy to reach over to the book shelf and look it up.
That's great hahaha
Only that the same sh*t happens on a daily basis in all of America's major corporations. The problem is not the government, the problem is government modeled after the private sector.
@@martinfiedler4317 difference is if you do that consistently in business, you either get fired or go bankrupt.
Since when do you go bankrupt in business? As long as you are big enough and pay enough contributions to corrupt politicians, you get a bailout. Where have you been the last 40 years? Not noticed, how corporate America has taken over???
"A troop carrier that can't carry troops. A reconnaissance vehicle that's too conspicuous to do reconnaissance. And a quasi-tank that has less armor as a snow blower, but with enough firepower to take out half of DC" And it will become a legend.
I's not a troop carrier it's an IFV like the BMP. big difference. the Bradley's reputation was built on the corpses of iraquis and hulls of iraqi tanks. Will Russian tanks and Conscripts add to its reputation. We wait.
@@mr6johnclark well, we've waited and the answer is a resounding NO. Very unfortunate for the poor ukrainians saddled with them, and they got the more modern version with all the bells and whistles to boot.
@@MatoVuc the counter offenisve has barely started.
@@mr6johnclark offensive* Counter offensive means there was an enemy offensive which you defeated and are now launching an offensive of your own before the enemy can regroup their forces. Yes, the offensive has barely started and already they've lost dozens of Bradley, Leopards and MRAPs (and BMPs and T tanks which nobody mentions. Even M113s) with nothing to show for it. In fact, it's kind of funny that they've had more success in the most recent week when they shifted tactics back to infantry storming operations without vehicles than they did for two weeks prior with the Leopards and Bradleys.
@@MatoVuc as to losses? its war what did you expect? Tho it's far more humiliating for you know russians to leave perfectly servicable vehicles to be towed away by farmers and move the goal post when they failed to you know capture the capital of ukraine the first few days in.
We know it’s not tank!! …. *but will the other side*
Wait, weren't you an artillery guy? Shouldn't you be advocating for an even bigger cannon? (Apologies ahead of time if I'm wrong)
Do you want me to paint a sign on it in 50 languages, "I'm a troop carrier, not a tank. Please don't shoot at me"?
Hell! Even our own news media called the Bradley a 'Tank'. I just chalked it up to normal media ignorance.
Ladies and gentlemen, Software development in a nutshell.
"Is this all it can do?" "Ooh! Let's make the software do this too!" "Isn't it just a few more lines of code?" Thinking to self: "Kill me, now..."
Development in general in a nutshell. Never succumb to scope creep.
someone should have had the balls to say no. one of this would have happened if someone just said no to the generals.
William Zhao Are you crazy? Do you value your life and income?
no.
0:27 Johnson 1:36 Nixon 3:48 Ford 5:41 Carter 8:40 Reagan
Damn! Without your comment i wouldn't be able to tell.
Lol, you said "Johnson" 😂
They also have monitor displaying Microsoft Excel before Microsoft was founded.
The only thing lasting longer than it's design process was the Afghanistan war.
F35 Clinton, Bush, Obama, Biden
0:55 "and features a 20mm cannon" *shows a M1919 .30 caliber (7.62 mm) machine gun* also, at 1:18, there's no hatch for the crew to access the gun, and the gun is fired with what looks like just a manual trigger, so someone would have to be lying on top of the vehicle to use the gun. the picture at 0:18 shows what looks more like a 20mm cannon though. also, just for the record, the Bradley was not supposed to be a direct successor to the M113, but was supposed to be a rival to the soviet bmp-2, which had a 30mm cannon and and anti-tank guided missile launcher. The Bradley design was also motivated by the soviet bmp-1, which had a 73mm (slower-firing) cannon and an anti-tank guided missile launcher.
Reading into the depths of how the Bradley was outfitted, I think that the LtCol may have overexaggerated the issues surrounding the development of the Bradley. Most of the issues that increased the cost after the fact were survivability improvements, and LtCol Burton has made a point that he believes we shouldn't be using what he refers to as "high-priced junk" in military equipment. This junk as he so refers to, are things such as radar in planes, Electronic Countermeasures, and defensive armaments such as chaff and flares, and his "Blitz Fighter" design incorporates a gun, two engines, and a radio into a bathtub cockpit and nothing more. The idea that modern military aircraft be manufactured and deployed with no IFF, radar, stealth profile, or even something as simple as an ejection seat, goes to show how poor of a representation the movie is to reality.
Fuck the reformers.
Fuck the reformers. The so called "reformers" just want to go back to ww2 strategies and equipment. The "old guard", are just old gents using modern technologies and strategies. Who do you think would win a war?
Lazerpig superiority
The book this movie is based on was written be a full blown idiot that believed the m60 was the only tank the U.S army needed and the abrams was a pointless waste of money. The Bradley was not conceived in the way represented here at all, and functions as needed in its intended role in a constantly shifting military doctrine.
@@AlexxxxxSaysHi it's a comedy it's supposed to be funny
And the funny thing is that they are now going to build an APC based on the Bradley, so we have basically made a full circle.
A full circle jerk
Blackberg not yet, they still need to put the turret on so the cycle can continue
not funny because bradley is now being phased out. Its on its final days.
Put a turret on top of the bradley turret? That will be funny XD
@@descartes2404 That's called the M3 Lee ...
My father is a construction engineer and while a civil construction engineer in Germany will experience different problems than someone building tanks in the US this reminded me of the storys he told me from work. When a company hired him to build a manufacturing plant but wanted the plans to be redone mid construction because some shareholdes got cold feet and issued a new stretegy or one time he had to make twenty plans for a small river spanning bridge in a near town, where the local politicians went into total gridlock. He then kinda got good at identifying when a project was doomed from tge start due to the customers wishes being incoherent with themself and the physical reality. He was offered a reallywell payed job in the construction of the new Berlin Airport but declined. The Berlin Airport is years behind scedule and billions over budget with no end in sight while ruining the careers and reputation of all the engineers involved. Little sidestory here. However have a nice day.
Abraham Wilberforce "Years behind schedule" HA! Good one!
@@jungletrouble8296 That is not funny, thing was supposed to get operational in 2012.
Abraham Wilberforce It's definetly gonna take another decade, hence the "Good one!". But you're right, it's pretty sad.
@@jungletrouble8296 I bet SpaceX landing on Mars happens first and for less money than BER opening.
this stuff is quite a common issue, I can say this from it point of view, there is even book called "Death March: The Complete Software Developer's Guide to Surviving 'Mission Impossible' Projects"
In light of its performance we can probably agree to enjoy this scene as the story of an undermotivated Colonel sulkily meeting the requests of generals who actually wanted something fit to fit wars in the future: the Bradley actually ends up being about the best IFV in the world: It was never intended to just be an APC.
Yeah, they really look awesome piled up and in flames in the Russian steppes (yes, Russian, whether we westerners complaint or not).
@@Smolensk85 Whatever Commie
@@Smolensk85 How many rubles were you paid for this comment?
@@Smolensk85unlike Russian IFV/APC the crews survived. The Bradley did what it was designed to do it protected the infantry riding in them, also many of them were recovered and put back in service.
@@Smolensk85 'we westerners' - said a guy with a nickname 'smolensk'
“But how did it end up with a turret” uhhhh because it was designed that way from the start? The Bradly was meant to be an IFV from day one (not a battle taxis as Burton lies), it was designed in response to the BMP.
This should be shown in every MBA program to demonstrate the concept of scope creep.
RawhideProductions1 I did a project management course (CAPM)... Oh damn YES!!!
How about we just remove MBA programs altogether?
Please, if they have not figured that basic concept prior to their MBA course work they never will.
The only way a Technical person can get an interview these days.
Investor is always right.
"How many design flaws should we give this thing?" "Yes!"
Not really the case
F-35: *Allow me to introduce myself.*
Gerald Ford Carrier: Hold me rum!
I was a mechanic on the Bradley for 15 yrs. Early during my career I had a young scout touting how great the Bradley was and how bad ass it would be in combat. I reached into my tool box and pulled my ball peen hammer out. I smashed it into the front access panel. He yells: WTF man! You chipped the paint! I looked at and said: Fuck your paint. You should be more worried about the wicked dent I just put into your aluminum armor with a hammer. Imagine what 50 cal armor piercing rounds or BMP rounds will do to this thing in combat. Yeah that kid just shut up. I don't remember him bragging after that. Later I did 3 tours in Iraq. I saw first hand how badly that aluminum armor did its job. IED's were the number one killers of Bradley's hands down.
@Bad Cattitude The Bradley saved lives more than it lost them. But it's made of aluminum and magnesium to keep it lighter. The problem with that is that it's vulnerable to hits from below. This isn't a secret as the insurgents knew it all too well. Another problem is once they are on fire they melt down to the point of becoming shoe boxes. I have seen it personally. And yes the Bradley's had a high kill ratio during the gulf war, it's mostly due to the Bradley's optics being far superior to the Soviet era tanks Iraq had back then. That is no longer the case for any enemy with modern armor or improved and updated armor. While the Bradley does have new optics and target acquisition systems. They are still very vulnerable to any weapons that have even last generation range and destructive force. Aluminum is great for weight savings, but total shit for stopping shells and missiles. I won't say the Bradley can't dish out punishment, because it has. But what I am saying as a guy who has seen many Bradley's destroyed and recovered them. The Bradley needs to be retired and a new platform is needed to fill its role. I know full well what is riding here when US troops go to war in the Bradley in pros and cons.
I had the Good Fortune of driving a Bradley for a while including swimming it across a lake. The practicality of the vehicle may have always been a mystery but none the less it was fun. And it went from a APC to the BFV
I've worked in Research & Development and seen this sort of thing happen. They get the money first, then find ways to spend it all so they can continue getting the same money every year.
You know that drawings you did as a kid with an overkill of weapons load and rocket boosters for speed? This is the adult version. 😂😂😂😂
i'm not a military buff, but that comment just put it all into perspective and hit scarily close to home at the same time! lmfao!
@@keiko909 do know what is scarier? The drawings of the kids today! What will be the adult version in the future??? 😂😂😂😱😱😱😱
Holy shit, other people drew rocket boosters too?
@@synthwavecat96 yep 😁
FeEl OlD yEt??
"What about portholes? So they can stick their guns out and shoot people?" Did they just describe the Chimera APC from 40k?
The diffrence is that even the 40k (or rather whoever came up with it before 41st) generalls were smart enough to not throw everything on one thing but make difftent versions. Yes one of this versions does carry an ICBM but still better than this.....
@@NoFlu Repulsor?
@@Fearior Deathstrike
They sure did, because everything comes from warhammer, and never vice versa.
Actually in 40k they are sponsons with lasguns in them not portholes
“….you don’t have to buy the damn thing Jones, just draw it” - a Lockheed Martin aircraft engineer in 2006.
"You don't have to buy the damn thing Jones, just draw it";😄😆😅😁
7:40 In that Genrals defence, there was a bradley in the first gulf war that got separated from its abrams, and found itself staring at an Iraqi T72. Those AT missile came in very handy, even if the first one they shot was a dud.
The Iraqi tanks had way worse optics and their range was about half of the US.
@@mkz42279 Sure, but are you gonna trust in that, or would you rather throw ATM's at the problem until it goes away?
@@Sorain1 I dont see how throwing more cash at the iraqi's would help at those distances
@@frankyg7880 😂
@ind0ctr1n3 not true.
the engineer is my hero
But he's a liar. He honestly thought that alumium armor was going to release toxic chmeicals.
aluminium oxide is toxic
look for a video called "the expert"
@BRAVOZULU DWEST boathouse not aluminum oxide
Keep in mind this is a piece of drama, not the portrayal of actual events. And has been compressed to accentuate the problems with "design by committee" method. The original prototypes were already designed to have multiple configurations to include a scout, and anti-tank missiles, and cannons. However later in the design process was attempted to merge all into a one size fits all configuration. The success of that configuration is still hotly debated to this day.
This is my favorite scene in the movie, but it's highly inaccurate. The Bradley was always going to become the way it was because of the Soviet BMP. The BMP is an amphibious troop carrier with a turret and anti-tank missiles. The US saw how useful these vehicles were during the Yom Kippur war in 1973 and realized they needed something to match it. If the original troop carrier ever went up against a Soviet BMP it would 100% lose against it. This would make a theoretical war against the Soviets very difficult. In a direct conflict between two mechanized divisions the Soviets would have far better firepower and support.
being sold to israel is a sign almost everything colonel burton said is a clear lie.
it was basically the perfect morph between light tank and troop transport perfect for infantry support while not restricting them to much
I know this has already been talked about a lot, but the reason the Bradley is the way it is is because the ideal battlefields for APCs don't exist anymore. You can't just drop infantry out in the middle of nowhere without some form of lightly armored support. That's why the Bradley exists. It can carry a squad of troops in a relatively well-armored hull while also using it's autocannon and anti-tank missiles to neutralize any larger armored threats that come around to threaten the infantry it carries. It is, by design, more likely to save lives than the 113.
People seem to forget that the Bradley was supposed to serve as a replacement for the M113, instead it morphs into this IFV of doom that can destroy tonnes of shit but can neither carry more than 11 troops nor swim like its predecessor. Fast forward 33 years after the Bradley was introduced and guess what? The army has a Ground Combat Vehicle program to replace the M113 by 2018 with almost the EXACT same requirements as in 1958. Competitors include an MRAP derivative vehicle, a Tracked Stryker and exactly 60 years after the first proposed design.... a Turretless Bradley.
11 troops? More like six.
I just realized you said Ground Combat Vehicle. The GCV program was going to be a much larger vehicle with much more armor and fire power. You're talking about the program to replace the M113 for logistics, not the Bradley.
Michael Currier You mean the Bradley wasn't big and up gunned enough for them and now they want another AFV that isn't a tank but is supposed to kill tanks?
killer3000ad The GCV was canceled. Could you tell me why basically every single developed nation has an IFV with Bradley equivalent armor and weapons? Is the whole world wrong? Do you know much about IFVs in general?
Michael Currier Way to move the goalpost. My question was not why nations develops IFVs, but why anyone would want to develop anything that is way bigger or heavier than the Bradley that isn't a tank. In fact you shot yourself in the foot by saying "every single developed nation has an IFV with Bradley equivalent armor and weapons". Exactly that, a lot of nations use IFVs that are sensibly weighed and armed, so why did anyone think making an even bigger replacement for the Bradley which would be even heavier, with more firepower and armor, is a smart move. Please don't misrepresent my question so you can score internet points in youtube comments. But since the GCV has been cancelled, the point is moot now as it seems sensible heads prevailed there. Also I never accused the whole world of being wrong, but way to further put words in my mouth and misrepresent me. I tell one thing's for sure kid, the whole world hates the Bradley. As an international seller it's a colossal failure with only two nations the US and the KSA operating it, and I am pretty sure the KSA's Bradley's were paid for on the taxpayer's dime. Lets look up how many nations uses the Russian BMP-3 besides Russia. Oh look 10!
And that ladies and gentelmen, is what every engineer calls "Feature Creep". Guard against it.
i heard it called "concept limbo" as well
Mission Creep is the term the upper bass in military use
If you're an external contractor, the key is to - when the origination contract is drawn up - be explicit about the definition of features and charge a per diem for creep. Then, let them go ahead and hang themselves having you re-engineer it, since you make a fortune each time. Or, they'll learn their lesson quickly and allow you to stick with one sensible design.
@@NilesBlackX Yeah, don't guard against it. Guard yourself against it. Warn them, but if they go ahead, more money for you and if it sucks, you say "I told you so"
Aka the story behind star citizens development
Gotta love that reformist PR machine, the Bradley is a superb vehicle and burton was a crackpot with an axe to grind
Treat the Pentagon Wars as entertainment with some elements of real events behind it. It is NOT an accurate description of the Bradley as it actually went into service. The actual Bradley has been combat proven under very difficult conditions, and gives protection to its occupants short of facing a Main Battle Tank.
"Can we get specialist Zach out here to clear this Bradley?"
Another "Man of Culture" I See
Props to you, man
Because Bradley's are small arms apparently
@@conor9543 "Theoretically, a man can carry the chain gun".
@@conor9543 In theory you can dismantle a Bradley into small enough pieces to make it man portable.
Its funny, because Soviet engineers must've gone through same hell when they were designing BMP-2 amphibious, rocket firing, auto canon shooting, scouting troop carrier. Later even more multi-multi role troop carrier BMP-3 which has an tank canon, auto canon and rocket launcher.
Yes, and on top of that, BMP-3 was developed from a chassis that was originally designed for a light-tank... Must have been a hell of a headache for the project engineers...
Finlandiaperkele Nyet, is Russian tenk. Is very stronk design yes?, it take big gun. But in all seriousness, the BMP 3 does work for its intended purpose, which is annihilating people with primitive stuff.
An Everyman But the point about BMP-3 was the fact that it has enough firepower to level a city block, yet it still carries troops and is amphibious, all the while being based on chassis that was never meant to carrying troops... Must have been hell of a thing to design....
An Everyman I speak about the project engineers perspective. BMP-3 is a great and unique vehicle indeed.
Original BMP-1 which was ahead of decades or two of its time had been a hell to design rather than versions which were built upon it. Anyways, I have soft-spot for heavy IFVs rather than proper light ones like BTR series. Even though, BTR-90 and are becoming quite well armed, but rising costs are problematic and they risk to distance themselves from BTR-60 and that it was designed to do- to replace trucks with armor.
Hits a little different now that it took down a T-90M
Without Bob we wouldn't have Bradleys taking out T90s.
Hahaha well money well spent wasn’t it?
in the gulf war, a total of 20 Bradleys were lost-17 due to friendly fire incidents
Most of those were actually to the Iraqis - like at the Battle of Khafji the US military said that all 25 US deaths were due to friendly fire, but actually 14 were due to Iraqi SAMS and the other 11 to Iraqi artillery. Quite why they told that particular lie I do not know.
better than 30 i guess
@@dewittbourchier7169 You say 14 Bradleys were lost to Surface-to-Air Missiles? SAMs? Anti-aircraft missiles? How? Where the Bradleys flying in the air?
@@samobispo1527 No I was saying most Bradleys were likely lost due to Iraqi military action and not friendly fire as the Battle of Khafji demonstrates the US military often labelled men killed by enemy action as killed by friendly fire.
Also Iraqi morale was nonexistant, their weapons were bootleg Russians, and most of the world was against them.
Funnily enough, the real General Bradley died in 1981, the year this mess finally ended.
His mission was finished. He no longer had any attachments left in the mortal world. His soul was finally free. After nearly 12 years of hell, he was finally at peace.
Its great to know Amanda waller helped make this shitty vehicle 😂😂
@@blazingbleezy668 It's actually the opposite. The M113 which is basically a turretless bradley with a shitty M2 Browning. As much as I love a M2 Browning, try going up against Tanks that can pen your Armor like paper. A light tank with a anti infantry and anti armor capabilities makes it a much much better Tank even without the TOW launcher a Bradley can go toe to toe with the BMP.
@@blazingbleezy668 The Bradley does everything it was designed to do. It can carry a squad of infantry into battle while being able to provide them fire support once they dismount, it protects them against light and heavy machine gun fire, it has excellent anti-tank capabilities, and it makes an excellent recon vehicle thanks to its electronics suite. The guy who wrote the book that this film was based on was of the firm belief that the M113 was the greatest vehicle ever produced and believed that the main thing we'd need to beat the Soviets in open war was to make all of our vehicles, including the A-10 Thunderbolt II, in a way that they had no electronics on them, i.e. no IFF, thermals, night vision, radar, and so on. Spookston has a video detailing many of the outright lies and half-truths of the movie if you're interested.
@@braith117 Two thirds of a squad and it doesn't have the mobility to be a serious recon vehicle.
As a software engineer, this hits close to home, LOL ... this is the military equivalent of our meetings with corporate / non-technical management and dealing with the wild investor and client requests. I usually make the analogy that they want their own permanent base built on the moon in only two weeks, and they insist that it shouldn't take very long at all because the base can just be like a little clubhouse or fort built by little boys ... if kids can do it in only a few days all the time, then why can't we, damn it?! So you point out that the problem is getting to the moon and somehow building something there that can sustain life, and that it's hundreds of thousands of kilometers away and would take a ton of rocket fuel to simply get there and then you might die if anything goes wrong ... so they think about it for a second and then say "Well, I was in Hobby Lobby and _they_ sell model rocket engines, tape and glue ... how many of the big fat ones will you need?" 🤦🤦🤦
The engineer is my favourite character of the sequence “Do you want me to put a sign on it in 50 languages ‘I am a troop carrier, not a tank. Please don’t shoot at me.’?”
As an over 6 foot tall dismount who has spent way too much time in the back of these, this explains SO MUCH.
How tall is it in there?
@@peterdonlon2083 About tall enough for someone who's 5'9" max to sit up straight. Add gear and helmet, plus extra weapons like Javelins and whatnot, and it starts getting very cramped. Add to that the fact that we're often in the back for up to 12 hours at time. I'd rather walk, jump, or get to the objective any other way. It started out as a troop carrier, but in the end that was clearly their last priority.
@@andrewb325 This film does oversimplify it. This guy in real life was in a group called 'the reformers' who thought the military was buying weaponry too expensive and few. Whilst he was right the Bradley was underarmoured and overarmed, it was always designed as an IFV rather than APC he just misread documents. The reformers also held beliefs like it's better to have 2000 M60 Pattons than 500 M1 Abrams. They didn't exactly get everything right
@@andrewb325 You shou'd've tried Russian way an ride on the armor. A bit risky but at least your back wouldn't be killing you in few years.
@@Connor-vj7vf They also felt launching pilots with no radar or anything decently advanced and nothing but a 30mm gun could kill tanks. When asked why no radar he basically replied “what you like killing refugees?” They called missiles high priced junk, these guys were ass backwards morons.
Brilliant...... Anyone who has designed ANYTHING within a large organisation where the "bosses" have an input will totally get this..... :)
Ian Denyer So Much This. "What's a horse by committee? A camel!"
Indeed. That is why so important to have bosses with ample practical experience and engineering knowledge when designing thes things. Otherwise, camels arise.
Richardsen We both see horses ROFL
I relate to this on a spiritual level.
Or hopefully have an agreed upon scope of the project.
I like how this comment section is an active battlefield between James Burton reformers, Russian shills and people who know that the Bradley isn't a piece of shit from its combat record and Lazerpig video on it
That last part is the most hillariohs shit i've read all day.
As one who does engineering for similar people, I can tell it's accurate, if a bit mellowed.
I do design engineering to replace equipment within our nuclear plants and this is basically how it goes. At least the military brass in this movie kept continually giving their wishlist throughout the project instead of waiting until the 90% meeting.
@@Unb3arablePain Wait, they gave you wishlist? I've never got to see any messages from potential customers about what they actually wanted, apparently they lost in project management...
So you're you're fake who waste everyone's time and money? Obviously this not tank could take an anti tank weapon
This is one of the most inaccurate films ever made, based on the book of a moron who was mad that the air force didn't accept his moronic plane prototype.
It tickled me so much, seeing this movie, when the AMPV entered development phase in 2016 to replace the M113...based on a turretless Bradley. The colonel can rest easy that his dream came true 50 years later.
No it didn't his Bradley had all the ammunition stored externally is Bradley had blowout panels his Bradley was a death trap Burton was a whiny baby who freaked out because he didn't get his way the army was the one who entered into the joint live fire test program Congress did not force them
@@spartanx9293 Learn punctuation man, it makes bullsh*t a lot more palatable.
@@snafu1635 How to what I'm saying b******* Burton was a moron
Funny thing M113 live with multiple Configuration from APC, Amphibious, Scouts, Mortar Carrier,AIFV,AAW,Fire Support , Command vehicle
Every single piece of equipment that the US military has used since WW2 had to be a compromise, the army is in the business of fighting wars and if they needed a scout vehicle and a personal carrier but only had money for on Le then guess what? They are gonna get someshit that can do both but doesn't really Excel at any of it. Almost all hardware platforms in the US army are repurposed designs....grow up
- Engineer - General it's a troop carrier, not a tank. what next are you gonna ask ? to make it fly ? - General - Is it possible to add wings ? - Engineer - ....
It's too big and slow in the air. Better add some long range air-to-air missiles so it can shoot down enemy fighters. Plus it'll need extra fuel.
@@solarprophet5439 8 more months and it would have been able to fly into space
Solar Prophet and thus the F-35
@@JoseJimenez-sh1yi wrong.
Soooo , you wanted a Mi-24 ? As the initial concept was a helicopter IFV.
A lot of this movie is not accurate to what actually happened, but this part is actually pretty close to the Bradley's real-life evolution over nearly 2 decades
yeah except the big reason why they wanted a gun on it on was more so that instead of deploying troop and leaving it could stay and give support pretty much became standard for almost every personal carrier
@@aoki6332 Well yeah these people weren't idiots, they understood the changing nature of warfare and were adjusting plans to it.
It’s even funnier when u hear the quip “Maybe in another year they’ll get it to fly” considering this same guy in real life has such a hard on for the m113 he actually “Drew up plans” for a flying Variant
@@ryancamara5689 Ah yes, the Gavin
@@SeruraRenge11 I’m so glad people know that thing exists and so sad people genuinely think it would work
It should be noted that the Bradley is an IFV not an APC. It was designed to stay with the troops and defend them against things like bmp’s and tanks instead of dropping them off and retreating.
Should be noted that the term "IFV" was coined to compensate for this bumblefuck of a development process.
@@mokomothman5713 There was no bumblefuck development process. The Bradley was designed with a turret from the start. IFV is based on the Soviet BMP 1 or Boyevaya Mashina Pyekhoty 1. Which translates to Infantry Fighting Vehicle 1.
@@mokomothman5713Should be noted your completely wrong
6:39 They did, but they’re calling it an “A-10 Warthog”
Ironically the whistle-blower at the center of this was part of the A-10 development team. Its actually a big reason why he was so offend by the Bradley.
no, because the A-10 is actually good. It does exactly what it's supposed to do: Close air support.... Then again it probably started out as a fax machine or something.
@@theghostinthemachine It was originally designed for the single purpose of destroying Soviet armor in the Fulda gap. Which is CAS, but a very specific form of CAS. It adapts to other CAS, but only against equivalent tech. Fortunately, the enemies we're fighting don't have sufficient tech to stop it very well. No modern military would let you get close enough to use the GAU cannon.
@@mzmadmike True... But then that would require them to be able to keep planes in the air, and we got the F-22 and that thing's OP as all hell. Plus it ain't fighting a modern military yeah? The A-10 is a damn good design though. Plus who says it needs to hit them with the gun? they got plenty of other options, and if you have heavy AA presence CAS is probably not going to be a thing anyway. Though the A-10 can certainly take a hit. Just saying it does it's job very well, and if you need to send CAS into airspace loaded with fighter aircraft and the like, with no escort? Someone already fucked up badly. Oh and also Iraq during the Gulf War. Not quite a fully modern army, but the A-10 tore their armor to pieces.
@@theghostinthemachine "started out as a fax machine or something." fucking lol
I'm an Engineer for the DoD. I can't tell you how much money I personally have wasted designing something just to be told it will never see production for something I said was stupid at the time or for some stupid revision. I show this to everyone because it's true lol.
Former DoD engineer here, and yes, our worst enemy is our own acquisition leadership.
@@mollari2261 thats why they pay you guys the big bucks
Just think of it as a relatively inefficient way to fund your children's college education, then it won't feel so bad.
Have you finally gotten around to designing those hat missiles?
Have you seen the CV90 or other Swedish designs. Perhaps America shouldnt let the Generals design what they want, it is military equipment, not a pizza.
"You don't have to buy the damn thing, just draw it." And that's how genius happens.
The Bradley is one of the most useful things to support your troop imo
Bradley was probably a nice thing to have in special operations where you need jack of all trades, master of none. Fighting an unknown enemy. But in war like Ukraine, you need vehicles that are specialized to do missions. If you need to transport 100 of troops to the city, you rather have 10 troop nimble and small transports than 20 Bradleys... The area was scouted beforehand, the enemy pushed out by artillery and tanks... Nothing to do for Bradley... This is why this 7 min clip is so perfect. It completely and correctly explains the problems with Bradley.
... If you've got nothing else...
@@SimplyVanis Hey, you seen the news from Ukraine about the Bradley?
7:28 "thicker armor is a reactive measure" in 1988 the bradley got reactive armor panels, lol
Lol
Yes because missiles became more popular, and reactive armour is not as heavy as plating the thing in depleted uranium.
The Marines did this with the LAV for armored reconnaissance. But it was amphibious, and it had air conditioning. But no ports. And carried enough 25 mm ammunition to kill everyone in DC. Oh, and it had a 7.62 mm machine gun too. And a TOW missile variant. And an 81 mm mortar variant.
Dont forget the recovery verson. Nothing but a 7.62 gun and lots of cables and chains.
forgot the LAV-AD
But is there a coffee maker? Good for morale, don’t you know...
@@Justanotherconsumer For coffee join the army, Marines make do.
FotoschoPro I guess the Army variant will have one less seat then to make space.
Gotta say this film didn't age well. Bradley has proven to be one of the best vehicles on the battlefield throughout the 1980/90/2000s. Similar to the people who say Grr F-22 is terrible, or Grr F-35 is a waste of money. Honestly starting to wonder if these people are paid to spread misinformation around to get weapon projects cancelled. ie agents of America's enemies.
I’m not sure. But people who say things like that get paid handsomely to talk in media outlets all over the world. They spoke of the F-15 Eagle in similar terms and it became the greatest fighter jet of all time.
in most cases they are just useful idiots
Pierre Sprey appeared a lot on r*ssia today spreading misinformation about the F-35. Connections to r*ssian state media are purely coincidental....
Fun fact - that's one of the most successfull military vehicles in the history of military vehicles.
Then why in 42 years the only countriy that bought it outside the US is Saudi Arabia?
@@pierluigiadreani2159 As far as i know they did not sell it. But as far as actual war success goes: The Bradley has more kills than the Abrams. In Iraq they lost 20 pieces ... 17 due to friendly fire. The vehicle is highly successful in what it does.
The Bradley was simply not used in a real war. Without total air superiority and not against disorganized natives. In Ukraine, Bradleys only suffer losses..very serious losses.
And how many kills does the Bradley have in the last couple of months?.. We both know the answer 😏
@@elkapusto2414I never saw any video of bradley shooting at russian and confirm of the damage.All what I saw after checking tg for 3 months 24/7 is 2-3 videous of bradley shooting and dozens of videos where bradley is destroyed...
"Sir... it is a troop carrier..." "Haha, cannon goes brrrrrr."
It was designed from the very start to be a IFV, if I remember correctly. Col. Burton basically lied out the ass in his book.
It's a troop carrier.... With a cannon..... With an atgm to fight tanks.... But without the Armour to match.... Armour so weak 50cals can penetrate it from the sides... Made partially from aluminum. Oh you thought I was talking about the bradley? No it's the bmp, because turns out the two major powers came to the same conclusion for how an IFV should be.
@@accountname9506 Yup, you are most certainly right. Bradley was supposed to be an IFV from the start and it was always meant to have a turret - the book and in turn the movie aswell are full of lies and inconsistencies.
@@accountname9506 Says the guy with no name and no proof of his claim.
@@mhobson2009 There's a ten minute video by Spookston on this topic, with sources in the description. Here's the link - kzhead.info/sun/mtGuhr2OiXd9mn0/bejne.html
The only thing wrong with this is that half the idiotic decisions being made by clueless generals in this movie were actually made by clueless congressmen. There was a lot of cluelessness to go around.
That's my question about this; I can understand why politicians are clueless, but men who have "been there" and "done that"? Wouldn't their worse offense in the cluelessness department would be having their judgement dictated and limited by the lessons of the particular wars they participated in as a subaltern/field grade officer?
@@bezukaking6860oh believe me, generals know very little about gear. Maybe it's the lack of interest, maybe the generation gap or the DoD turns their brains into soup
@@buckplug2423 I do, but I still lean towards generation gap (how you word it), as (for example) the French strategy of Attaque à outrance - the one that got so many men killed (red pantaloons notwithstanding) - was based on lessons (albeit somewhat misread) from the Franco-Prussian War in which many of the most senior officers (von Kluck (1 Armee), von Bulow (2 Armee), von Hindenburg (8 Armee and Ober Ost), von Mackensen (8 Armee and HG Mackensen) and de Maunoury (6 Armee) come to mind, all having been around 23 in that conflict while Mackensen was 21) had a part as subalterns. The French returned to the Napoleonic tactic of bayonet charges because their mitrailleuses (early machine guns that were less convenient than Gatling Guns) didn't preform well. I really don't think the gun can be blamed for this, as Marechal Mac-Mahon apparently didn't know they existed until one was rolled passed him at Sedan; I could only imagine how many of the divisional mitrailleuse battery gunners actually knew what to do with them. The gun wasn't all that bad either but it was extremely situational, inflicting 8,000 casualties on the 18,000 man Prussian Gardekorps (the infantry elements of it) in 20 minutes at Gravelotte. Nevertheless, the specifics and nuances were ignored for a convenient and overarching lesson; the pas de charge. As for the DoD, have you heard of the case of Gen. Sir Redvers Buller, VC? (PS: sorry I got carried away, cheers though)
@@bezukaking6860 no I haven't, can you tell me more?
@@buckplug2423 He was a distinguished field grade officer, earning a VC as a colonel (maybe LTC, the British are a bit fuzzy on this stuff) in 1879 against the Zulus while serving under another VC (and future Field Marshal), Sir Henry Evelyn Wood. In '81 he was Chief of Staff to Sir Henry when they fought the Boers for the first time. Head of Intel in Egypt against nationalist rebels there in '82 (under LTG Garnet Wolseley, future Field Marshal and Viscount), winning a knighthood. Got married, spent some time in command of a brigade in the Sudan, winning the rank of major-general (brigadier/brigadier-general didn't exist at this time; it bounces in and out of existence in the British Army every once in a long while) and participated in the Gordon Relief Expedition of '85. This was all well and good, but his next assignments are more important for my point (in relation to yours): he snooped around in Ireland for a bit in '86 on government orders, became Quartermaster-General to the Forces in '87, promoted Adjutant-General to the Forces in '90 and lieutenant-general in '91 (division rank). Was in line for C-in-C of the Army in '95 but election happened and Field Marshal Lord Wolseley (FM since last year) got it. Full general in '96. GOC, Aldershot Command (a corps command) in '98. Here comes the clincher: chosen to command the Natal Field Force (a corps) in '99 when the Second Boer War began. Apparently said he should be fired if he couldn't win with the troops he had upon seeing the list. Divided his forces into a very odd 17,000/15,000/2,000 for operations. All three columns beaten within the span of a week at Colenso, Magersfontein, and Stormberg (reverse for chronological order) by the Boers. The British suffered 2,776 casualties to 308 Boers (236 were at Magersfontein). The casualties of the Highland Brigade (present at Magersfontein) caused public mourning in Scotland. 747 Highlanders were casualties (of which just under 1/2 were Black Watch), Major-General A. G. Wauchope, CB, was among the dead. The events would be known as Black Week. This stunning loss was and still is for the most part credited to Buller spending 13 years off of the field, mostly in staff positions (how I made the connection). Many of the men mocked him as "Sir Reverse Buller". whoops, got carried away. Cheers.
This hits a bit different in 2023
I’d say after one Bradley got hit by a Soviet era BM-21 rocket and survived to be repaired for another day.
@@raymondyee2008 The Russians not called a field near Robtno the "Bradley squire" for nothing. There're a lot burned Bradleys there. With a lot of bodies of the passengers .
@@RustedCroakerwell is there proof, show me evidence. Also it fails to compare on how Russia performs. Also the kerch bridge got hit again
@@raymondyee2008 any source because how BM-21 hit Bradley in first place Also still drivable after hit by 125mm HE
@@RustedCroaker bs
TBH, this is what coders deal with when dealing with nitpicking coders.
A jack-of-all trades but master of none....
It's an IFV, it's a master of being an IFV.
@Magni56: I was wondering just how good the Marder 2A2A1 would've been as an alternate. I'm liking that Flexi-Armature mounted rear-gun, but needed to know if the Armour would've been as good? Or the Speed? Or the Floatation Rating without Attachable Pontoons? I liked it's layout, as well as what the Austrailians had done with M-113 ACAV, and the Israeli mod's to it with both the "Cow-Fencing" and Hard-Mesh Standoff Armour called: _'Zelda'_ , methinks? That, and the two extra Fuel Tanks on the back.
Lynex Bradley’s killed dozens of BMP-3s in the first gulf war.
Tevo77777 its a terrible ifv hence why they designed the mk 2 really quicl
@Jackson Tyler There were no BMP-3s in the first gulf war
If the Bradley is ever replaced its successor should be called the Colonel Burton.
Or just the burton
Is that a C&C Generals reference? lol
Haha I thought about C&C Generals also. What are the odds of us seeing this 5 month old comment the same day. Btw I 2nd the Colonel Tim Burton.
@@KSmithwick1989 ☺🙃
@@PANZERFAUST90 But in Red Alert 2 we got Battle Fortress which is bigger than Bradley.
I just love how it's pictured with ukrainian flag in 0:06. They knew something.
For all of you who take this as gospel.. don't. The entire premise of this movie is from a guy who was (potentially) angry that his proposed prototype aircraft was not accepted. He was not a dashing but naive young man appointed by congress. The army was not forced by congress to do these tests. The idea that the bradley was a death trap because it can't survive modern anti-tank weapons is absurd, because that's not fucking possible on an IFV. And it is an IFV. It was always planned with a turret, as an IFV (AKA a light tank that can fit a few dudes in the back) in order to fight Russian BMPs, because having the enemy roll up in a fucking tank is bad when you don't have one, too. It was did not cost nearly as much as he claims. His complaints did not lead to improvements in the Bradley. The entire narrative was created by a bitter ex-employee to make himself look better. Don't trust memoirs, kids.
For one, movie - hilarious as it is -is 1. made by HBO (cough) 2. has literally NO resemblance to the heavily referenced book one of three section of the book.
@@piotrd.4850 It has heavy resemblance on the book. HBO isnt exactly were I would go to watch military documentaries.
Yea I bought into this at first…then I heard how the Bradley pretty much meme’d all over Iraq’s tanks in the Persian Gulf War and now I think the Bradley is fucking dope
They should have just done it in variants. Variant 1 being the main purpose, a troop carrier. Variant 2 as the scout. Variant 3 as the tank with "enough ammo to take out half of D.C.".
@@cv4981 Darn it you're right.
That’s too logical for the US government
Guess what? Later on they did
That would've been too logical for the defense bureaucracy, 413.
The Pentagon has always thought there could be a single vehicle/aircraft that would do all jobs as well. The F-111 was another one. You end up with a compromise that does none of those jobs well.
I was shown this in my Systems Engineering course by Lockheed Martin instructors. Very enthralling to have this perspective of the long, strenuous process to make progress in new technologies.
This sequence is brilliant movie-making, but it does the M2 a disservice. Bradleys are handy multirole vehicles that cross rough terrain, carry troops, and support those troops with potent firepower. If I had to go into battle as an infantryman, I'd rather do so in and with the support of a Bradley than an M113 or similar "troop carrier."
And yet the Bradley has literally dominated in every engagement it has been involved in since it was first introduced... Just like the M-113... They say its under armored and ancient and yet it still persists... Its meant to carry an infantry squad into combat and support their efforts with a good deal of firepower and "enough" armor to take anything up to and including a standard RPG round...
As a vehicle designed to be used in conventional warfare, it literally never took part in such conflict. Except that one time US invaded, for made up reasons, a vastly technologically inferior country, with GDP the quarter of Pentagon's budget. That one was technically "conventional"
This comment did not age well.. and it has only been up 9 months :D In Ukraine, the Bradley performed so well, they named a field after it.
@bionmccool Now it's in Ukraine helping the Russians with their tank space program. What's wrong? Can't use the export equipment excuse now, can you?
Can we just acknowledge how perfect Richard Schiff is at playing the Beleagured Beauraucrat?
Beleaguered bureaucrat. That's my band name.
US Military Leaders: Needs more DAKKA!
TIL: Americans are Orks. Loud, smelly, and love their BFGs. How didnt I noticed before?
Tomorrow I'm painting my Humvee red. Will test top speed.
green is best^^
DA RED ONES GOU FASTER!!!@
How funny that this thing reminds me of the Razorback.
The premise of the analysis of the Bradley is wrong. It´s not meant to be a big taxi to get units to the front, it has to support the troops once they engage. That´s why it has an autocannon in the first draft, that´s some massive firepower that a normal squad just wouldnt have. Of course the Bradley would be next to useless witohut troops to support and be supported by. That was the idea of the BMP series, the one the Bradley was meant to be a response to.
It’s a great movie, but it’s mostly self-serving fantasy (source material came from the Air Force guy, I believe). Every very major army has something serving the “fighting vehicle” role. (The portholes were indeed stupid, but they figured that out pretty quickly.)
So what you have here is a fallout game with no choices, limited character customization, limited rpg elements, a mass effect dialogue wheel, voiced cut scenes, a tower deference mini game, fuckable companions straight out of bioware and two endings. This is what we're building?
+Natakupl So funny, you should do one like the `process, like the begginig why they took the choices, i am pretty sure it willbe hilarius
+Natakupl That's also why Undertale came out and works. It's made by _1_ guy (code, music, graphics). No "can't you just" generals. He came up with an infantry transport vehicle, and did it. "What's your problem Smith? Not elegant enough for you?" EXACTLY Think small.
thats why papers please also suced one man, with heart and soul, if succed, good if it fail can happen, but heart and soul
+boptillyouflop Shame that Undertale is a shit game loved by no one but Tumblrettes.
"but has enough shooting to sell millions of copies"
As a guy who was roped into driving the damned thing for 3 months I'd just like to say that I truly, DEEPLY, hate that fucking thing and it's creators.....may they be sealed inside it while they roast in hell!
+Mat phil Why blame the creators they were pressured into it :P
I'm petty. Sue me.
Agreed. According to maintenance guys, it's a fucking nightmare.
Because they caved into the pressure, I guess
Only if you count those generals as the creators.
And yet the last laugh goes to the committee who designed it - it's the best AFV in Ukraine.
Some “big taxi cab” actually humiliated a tank.
All laughs and fun aside, seeing a Bradley around felt so nice.