Approaching the Scene 204: Nikon’s Hand-holdable 400 2.8 & 800 6.3 Z Super Telephoto Lenses
(LINKS BELOW): David Archer and I put tens of thousands of frames through our new 400 and 800 Nikon Z lenses this month in Costa Rica. In this video we’ll share some images, tips, comparisons and impressions from these amazing new long lens powerhouses.
LINKED TABLE OF CONTENTS:
00:00 Intro to ATS 204
01:45 Join our next free Office Hours and submit your macro photo for review
03:10 Shooting with these two new long Nikon Primes in Costa Rica
04:35 Both these lenses are totally hand holdable
05:57 The 800 takes practice, but rewards the patient photographer
07:45 Reviewing images from these two lenses
09:08 The new 400 2.8 compared with the heavier F mount version
16:08 Comparing the 400 2.8 Z lens to the 500 5.6 PF
19:10 The 800 is a heck of a bird and surfing lens
27:00 With a bit of practice, either lens will make you very happy
My First Video on the Nikon 800 6.3 PF-S: • Approaching the Scene ...
@nikonusa 100-400 S: bhpho.to/31eQimV
Nikon 800mm 6.3 PF-S: bhpho.to/3KjiMxf
Nikon 400mm 2.8 S: bhpho.to/3tSrCvO
Kirk QD/Arca rail for 800 or 400 foot (add $4 bushing): bit.ly/3sIYN4s
LumaLabs QD Strap (Discount code: HUDSON10): bit.ly/HHPloop35
My Ultralight Custom Tripods: www.hudsonhenry.com/tripods
2023 Workshops & early access: www.hudsonhenry.com/workshops
Kase Filters: www.hudsonhenry.com/kase
Frequently updated links to all the gear I use: bit.ly/HudsonsLinks
Using my links helps support this video series. Thank you!
I invite all of you to join Rick, Woody, David, Darren and me for our free live Office Hours Tuesday July 19th at 10AM Pacific. Submit a macro image for review when you sign up. We’ll spend the hour going through the gallery together.
Office Hour signup and image submission site: bit.ly/2UgDaX4
Thanks to everyone for the great questions you are sending in. Keep them coming either in the comments below or by emailing me directly. I hope to see you in the next Office Hours session on June 21st.
Stay safe and healthy.
Absolutely beautiful images here, thanks for info & chat about these two magical lenses! I have my eye on the new 400 4.5, hoping to see some info on that one too!
Love your video guys! The pictures are amazing. I really want the 800mm even more now! Keep up the great work.
WOW - amazing shots.
Great video guys! excited to see how the images from the 400 look! just waiting for the notice from NPS that mine has shipped!
Thanks to you both for sharing your experience, definitely looks like a blast and just like in a lot of places in nature, lighting can be a real challenge to deal with. Had a partly cloudy day early on today which helped me a lot with Spoonbill shots in S.C., an hour later it wasn't worth taking pics of them due to the stronger light.
Sun’s out, guns out! Great vid, lots of great lenses from Nikon, embarrassment of riches really. Appreciate all the info, insights and use cases, keep it coming!
this was excellent video
Beautiful images and beautiful lenses. Anyone who has the money to buy these lenses should buy them. In a few years that will be the only photographic equipment that is not replaced by phones. Price is what it should be, complaining about the price of the last 400 2.8 is like complaining about the price of the last Ferrari. Luxury is a perfectly honorable way to spend money when you have too much of it. Tanks for the beautiful images
Great video, I recently found your site and am loving your content. Your Z9 setup videos were amazing. I wanted to know if you shot the 400 with the teleconverter engaged with a further 1.4 teleconverter attached? Effectively making it a 784 6.3. Many thanks.
Nice shots, David really has a good eye. The wide aperture of the 400mm f/2.8 really shows it’s worth. I used to have the old AF-S 400mm f/2.8 G. I loved the bokeh and IQ of the lens, but it was a beast to carry. I have the 800mm on order, but the new Z 400mm f/4.5 looks very enticing too as I find the f/5.6 of the 100-400mm doesn’t give you that creamy background unless you can separate your subject quite a way from the background. It’s great that we are finally getting some choices with the Z mount system.
As I frequently crow... David is a wildlife master. :)
I'm still drooling from the bokeh of the 400 2.8.
I’m seeing the majority of the 400mm using the 560 plus DX, so I’m thinking the 800 might fit me better. However, the 400mm at normal range shots are amazing! That 2.8 is soo cool!
Fantastic adventure, thanks for sharing. There is certainly a reason for that 400/f2.8 TC lens cost. Love that bokeh and color. Hudson struggle with high power of 800 mm lens makes me think twice about this potential purchase. Tomek
I ordered the Z 400mm f2.8 about a month after it was announced but it's still backordered. I live an hour away from Yellowstone so hoping it gets here by fall. Tremendous flood damage between Yellowstone's North Entrance and Mammoth, as you probably heard about. Great images by the two of you.
Unfortunately I seriously doubt it will be. I put my NPS order in day one and no word
Great content, as usual; thanks! I really want (surely it's need :) ) the 400 2.8 Z but just can't justify it as I've got the 180-400 (w 1.4) which performs marvellously on my Z9. I have ordered the 800 pf, and you've reminded me I'm in for a major learning curve with a super prime -- I use the zoom, and the tc switch constantly on my 180-400. Guess the solution will be to carry the D6 with the 180-400 on it and the Z9 with the 800 -- maybe a golf bag configuration to carry them? LOL
PS -- DID mean to say, some simply extraordinarily beautiful shots captured by both of you guys. Gorgeous.
Great video I’m currently a canon shooter R6/7 but looking into moving over to the dark side for that 800 mm
Great video, nice seeing how f/6.3 can also work in a somewhat dark forest. I think I'm going to order the 800mm next month. Been 50/50 about getting that lens or the old 600 f4 E FL, but I feel like the 800 PF makes more sense for someone only shooting handheld. AF and VR performance is also probably better on the native lens.
It's so crazy good handheld. I can count the number of times I've used a tripod with it on my fingers this past year.
Great photos! What is the name of the place you guys where in Costa Rica?
great video, how do you get the signature to appear on bottom of photo.
finally a video of the nikon z 400mm
A comparison between the 400mm with lz Z tc 2x and the 800 pf would be interesting.
Hoping you will take a look at the new announcement of the 400mm 4.5 prime. While it seems like this range is covered in other lenses, I bet it will come in at less dollars than the other options making it an attractive alternative for the hobbyists. Staying tuned for more pearls of wisdom from thou!!
I would stick with the 100-400 for that. :-) So much more versatile and only 2/3 stop slower at the 400 end. It's a fantastic lens.
Hi Hud and David -- I greatly enjoyed your vid and the images you guys take. I also process my Lossless RAW images from the Z9 using DxO Pure Raw 2 (Adobe has completely dropped the ball). Currently DxO has not yet generated the Optical modules for either of these lenses (I own both) - are you using Lightroom's optical corrections? Your images look super clean -- I do not apply either Noise Reduction or Sharpening in Lightroom, I find that for output exports I am going to use running these images though Topaz DeNoise AI and sometimes also Sharpening AI as well helps a lot almost irrespective of what ISO settings I have used. How d you clean and sharpen your images? Agree - when hand holding the shorter zooms and 500pf are far easier to use for BIF. The field of view of the 800 is too narrow for me to shoot BIF close up. Have you tried the 800/6.3PF for BIF on a gimbal - it is great when BIF are a way away?
Thanks so much! Gimbals and fluid heads are great, but very restricting for the way I like to shoot action. I'm in constant motion (high, low here, there... I'd still rather handhold abs love that this lens enables it on use situations. I know others love it, but I'm still not a fan of Topaz. Too rough a result for me personally. At high ISO, Pure RAW 2 cleans the file up just enough for lightroom or camera raw's more nuanced detail panel to fine tune afterwards with precision. I'm a huge Lightroom fan since version 1 and while I think it will be exciting when Adobe comes up with it's own "denoise" routine, I'm quite happy with how lightroom is handling my Z9 files right now. No complaints at all.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Matt Irwin just put out a video on Lightroom and Z9 RAW files. I had also found Z9 RAW files in LR to be noisier than expected and have been batch processing with both DXO and Topaz Denoise apps to compensate. I agree DXO produces a more consistent result. After listening to Matt’s video I am considering trialing C1. I also have both Neo and ON1, but not completely happy with either, although the latest update to ON1’s Camera Photo RAW, is a big improvement. I have used LR since it’s inception and love the seamless integration with PS, so it is hard to give up.
I'm of the mind that if you can't find something nice to say... I'll leave it to that regarding my opinion of that particular video. I'm more than pleased with my Nikon files in Lightroom and Camera RAW. C1 has a high quality raw processor wrapped in a UI that seems anything but intuitive, but there's no way it replaces lightroom's database management, integration with photoshop and printing module for me personally. I'd love a solid competitor to Adobe, but there really isn't one that's nearly on the same level IMHO.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Yes, and at $10/mo, the LR/PS bundle is really a great value. Like with Nikon, I have a level of familiarity with Adobe apps that would take a long time to get to with another product. The grass often seems greener on the other side of the fence, but ultimately I always seem to end up back with LR and PS.
You should try the 800 for night sky photos. Galaxies, nebulae and Saturn await! Maybe even try the 1.4 TC.
Would like to see a video on your workflow when using DxO Prime, assuming you haven't already done so. Thanks.
Look back about 2 weeks ago. :)
An interesting question would be, how does the 800mm compare to the 400mm + TC-X2
Great info guys Unfortunately, only have enough slack on the CC for the 500 PF, I can see a little DX here and there :) ................... Gary ..........................AU
Did you have issues with the max aperture on the 800 as far as noise? It looks like you had pretty good light most of the time. I am working on a book project and heading back to Costa Rica in August for the next installment. I'm a Sony guy and used my 400/2.8 in the rainforest. It was great, but my companions had 150-600 zooms and they really struggled to get usable images due to the very low light. I shot Nikon professionally for many years and I'm glad to see they are back in the game with these exciting new lens designs.
I had very low light, but got fabulous results on the Z9 even past 10,000 iso running DxO pure raw 2 before processing in lightroom. It also helps that I could get sharp images handheld down to 1/30th with the 800mm / Z9 stabilization combo allowing me to keep even heavy overcast forest scenes frequently down to 800 iso and below. Pretty nuts. I never felt limited by the low light situations I was working in.
Hi Hudson, I hope you can help me, I have just received my z 400 2.8 TC, and notice that when i move the lens vertically upwards then downwards I notice something, I pressume VR, moves up and down with a dampening movement. When i switch the camera on it blocks and it does not do it anymore..... Is this movement normal when the camera is not connected?
Did you or David try putting TC’s on the 400 to get to 800? It would be interesting to see an IQ comparison with a 1.4 and the internal TC engaged and a 2.0 without the internal TC and compare those to the 800. If the IQ is equivalent then the 400 would seem to be the best all-arounder if you can swing the $$$.
We meant to put the 1.4 on it, but David never felt the need and running the workshop was our main concentration. We thought we'd do some work on the days off after, but a big wet system blew through and we were a bit holed up. Next time we get together. I didn't like the 2.0 on my 70-200 or 100-400, so I sent mine back. David doesn't have Z TCs yet, but I'm sure he'll get them. I'd wager a guess that the 400 and the 800 are sharp enough to be fine with the 2.0. The 800 would be a bit silly with it though. It's great with the 1.4. That I can attest. David is right though. With the 1.4 built in and DX mode on the 400 you get 19MP at over 800 without adding an additional TC at all. Pretty sick. The 400 is a helluva lens for those with the $$$$$$$$$. :-) For the rest of us, there's the 100-400, the 500PF on the FTZ and soon a 400 4.5. For me the 100-400 and 800 with the 1.4TC make me a very happy wildlife and action shooter. I adore the 800 and I'm selling my 500PF.
What are the advantages of "flipping to DX Mode" rather than shooting full frame & cropping in post? I would tend to think that cropping in post would tend to offer more flexibility both in terms of the amount of crop as well as cropping to refine the composition.
Two things come to mind (possibly minor advantages) - it acts as an EVF magnifier of sorts, bringing the subject "closer" to your eye. And if you happen to be running low on card space, you'll get significantly smaller files - allowing you capture more images in a pinch. I think with a 45 mp sensor like the Z9 & Z7 / 7II have, it's fantastic. But I'll still use DX mode on my Z6II and it comes in handy for my needs.
@@csc-photo Thank you for your reply, however I would tend to think that the counter to it (IMHO) is that by waiting until post to crop, there is (possibly a significantly) lower risk of inadvertently clipping the wing tips off of a bird in flight or other fast moving subject. (I shoot a Sony A7R3 with a 42MP Sensor.)
Craig nailed a couple advantages. Why shoot huge files with small viewfinder framing when you're subject is a bit small and far away and you know you're going to have to crop in post anyway? That's why I put the crop selection on the function 2 button for action work. Sometimes your longest lens isn't quite enough. Hitting DX gives you a much closer, more detailed framing view and you're culling through a hundred 19MP files instead of 46MP files that all need cropping after culling. :)
I wish you had taken the opportunity to compare results of the 400 2.8 with 2x tc against the 800 pf. The 400 comes at a 100% price premium if you add in the tc, but it would be interesting to see if spending double gives you comparable quality with the bonus of having much more flexibility. Perhaps such a comparison will be possible in the future?
I'm sure the 2.0 would be just fine on that glass and at 800 5.6 it would be 1/3 stop faster than my 800pf. That's a lens made to handle a 2x and priced accordingly. If I had one we'd have tested it, but I didn't like the 2.0 on any of my lenses and returned it last year. I found the 100-400 significantly sharper than the 70-200 2.8 with it. It probably is fine on the 400 2.8, but neither of us had one. With the 800 and the 100-400 I certainly don't need more than the 1.4, and David prefers to stay at 560 F4 and use the dx crop to get the equivalence of 840 at 19MP, but retain the 560 F4 depth of field and light gathering. It's about the same resolution he's accustomed to with the D5 and D500. If he picks a 2.0 up ,we will compare them in the future.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Thanks for all the great content Hudson. For those of us who can't afford the price of the new 400 2.8. I'm wondering your and David's thoughts on a used G model 400 2.8, paired with a Z9 and FTZ adapter. Is the new one so much better optically (I know it weighs less and as the built in 1.4) that going the used older version is a worse idea than just occasionally renting the new one when you know you have a trip. It seemed like David was saying his G model was great and so is this one (suggesting not a huge difference in optical quality and maybe a good approach for those who can't afford the new one). Thanks for your thougts.
Like most Z glass, the new lens yeilds higher image quality, but it's the handling, size and hand-holdability that really makes it shine. The older AFS lens really needs a gimbal and it's own suitcase but has gorgeous image rendering too. It's true. Used prices are down on those. The FL-ED (final F version) was lighter and a bit better, but it's still in the 5 figure range even used. I coveted David's 400 2.8 AFS until the smaller, cheaper 500 PF came out. That's an insanely fabulous little f mount lens. On the same note, I'm putting a video out Thursday reviewing the 400 4.5 S. It's an epic little lens of similar caliber for Z mount. Eventually you can rent the 400 2.8 S for special occasions. :)
I have 100-400 z, 400 4.5z, 300pf, 500pf....but wanting a 400 2.8 Tc....to shoot college sports ...any opinions..thanks Dave
I want it too. It's simply unparalleled. I've owned all those lenses too and the 400 2.8 TC is the best and priced accordingly. :) it's the one lens I don't own, but covet. It's perfect for low light sports.
these approaching the scenes are great to listen to audio only. I feel like it will take Nikon many years for the lens designers and the Z-mounts wide and up-close the mount design to start paying dividends.
Thanks for the kind words, but I assume you haven't used a new Z lens yet??? Even the kit DX lenses smoke most of the 4 figure F-mount lenses I swore by for decades. The new 14-30 F4 is far better than the 14-24 2.8 AF-S that was my old favorite lens. The new 14-24 2.8 S is so unbelievably small, light and amazing I had to pinch myself. Razor sharp edge to edge wide open. No chromatic aberration. It's freaking crazy good. I'm handholding this new lightweight 800mm at 1/30th of a second and it weighs and costs half of what the old 800mm F-mount did and that lens required a monopod and 100th of a second. I'd say the Z mount has been paying dividends from day one. The glass and mount started the race 10 laps ahead of the AF-system, now the Z9 is catching up. :-)
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Oh yes I have. I have a lot of experience shooting and grading photos from DX-F-lenses shot from D5100 and FX-F-lenses from D810 and the difference wide open is astonishing. What I was meaning that I didn't make clear was faster lenses like 1.2 where the T-stop difference is spot on 1.2. But I guess the mount is paying itself off in lightweight telephotos and sharpness wide open. I was under the assumption that we would receive faster glass and not more compact but same f-stop glass.
It sounds like the 85mm f1.2 will be announced shortly. I would also like to see a 28mm f1.2 on the roadmap. I don’t think we will have to wait as long as you may think to see the faster glass.
My eye is on that 85 1.2 as well. Can't wait to test it against my beloved 105 1.4... I had two really cool participants in our death valley workshop this year one of whom had the 58 S Noct, the other had the 50 1.2. The noct was nuts in the landscape at night. So bright and gorgeous, but the 1.2 had insane image quality and with eye detect AF, it was just crazy usable. I can't wait for the new 85. :) I agree that I'd love light, little "Leica like" fast 28, 35 and 50 lenses. 🤞
The 400 in my opinion looks way better for my taste and significantly more versatile. The 800 mm is quite a investment for it limitations. Must find a way to get that 400 !!!!
Hmmmm... I assume you mean the limitation of it being an 800mm?? Every other 800 I know is twice the size, not hand hold able at 1/1000th, let alone 1/30th, twice the cost and no better image quality. The 400 is more versatile for sure until your subject gets small and far away... I'd consider the 400 if it didn't cost $14k and if I didn't love my 100-400 so much already. These days ISO performance is insane, so I don't mind the narrower aperture so much. I don't know that I'd give up the 800 to get a 400 2.8 though. I'm really liking that insane handholdable reach. It's unique. :)
👍🏾🙏🏾
Is the 800 5.6 that’s way more expensive, any better?
What do you mean by "better"? It costs more than 3x as much, weighs about twice as much, is not native to Z-Mount, but lets in 1/3 more light compared to the f/6.3 version.
400mm with 2x converter gives 400mm f/2.8. 560mm f/4, 800mm f/5.6 and 1120mm f/8
The 400 with the 1.4 stacked atop the built in 1.4 is actually the sweet spot. 400 f2.8 / 560 f4 without, 560 F4 / 784 5.6 with, 800 / 1120 is generally far less useful.
Had to send my 400 back as it wouldn't focus at any aperture or distance - TC problems according to Nikon but I think it was a prime element out of shape. All I know so far is that it is a gamechanger for handheld but still waiting for the replacement.....
Oh what a bummer. I hope they fix it fast! You'll adore it. I guarantee that.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto For that money, I don't want it fixed, I am waiting for a replacement lens. I have been patient so far....
Haha, “The Boondocks” from Tagalog word meaning mountain or jungle.