Is Apollo 11's Lunar Module Still In Orbit Around The Moon 52 Years Later?
In 1969 Neil Armstrong announced a safe touchdown on the moon with the words 'The Eagle has Landed'. "Eagle" was the name of the Lunar Module, the spacecraft which carried Neil and Buzz to the surface of the moon. After they walked on the surface of the moon they flew the Eagle back into orbit, docked with the Columbia command module and undocked the Eagle, leaving it in orbit while Columbia returned to Earth.
Most spacecraft in lunar orbit suffer from instability in their orbits due to the 'lumpy' nature of the lunar gravity which tends to cause the orbits to eventually get so elliptical that they hit the moon.
However, an amateur space fan wanted to narrow down the possible impact location and used orbit modelling software to propagate the orbit forwards in time until it hit the moon. He was surprised to find that it didn't hit the moon, and remained in a stable orbit for decades, this suggests that the Eagle may still be orbiting the moon over 5 decades after being left there.
Here's the paper:
Long-term Orbit Stability of the Apollo 11 Eagle Lunar Module Ascent Stage
James Meador
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
And his github with the scripts for GMAT
github.com/RogerTwank/Eagle
And more information in the blog
snoopy.rogertwank.net/2020/09...
NASA's GMAT software:
sourceforge.net/projects/gmat/
The thread in Unmannedspaceflight.com showing processing of ingenuity images.
www.unmannedspaceflight.com/in...
Seán Doran's youtube
/ channel
Deep space radio burst finally decoded... "We're calling about your Eagle's extended warranty"...
This comment wins some kind of prize. 🤣🤣
I agree this is an internet winner.
golden comment right there. Almost worthy of inclusion on Voyager's "Golden Record", but not quite because if dangerous aliens listen to it, the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of "let's just annihilate them and ask questions later" would be "this species has terribly annoying insurance companies!"
Hahahahaha
Don't give them any ideas...
As a kid, we actually had one of the Apollo capsules in the park near my house. We used to love trying to peek inside until some knuckleheads decided it was "too dangerous" for kids to clamber around on and it was removed. The entire neighborhood was named after astronauts, Cooper Ct/Cernan Ct/Glenn Trail/White Trail/etc. Growing up there was what got me into everything space related, and that enthusiasm has carried thru my entire life.
You were one lucky kid
You lucky guy😨
They take away things like that because they're "too dangerous" and then wonder why kids don't care about anything and only break stuff
@@ToyotaTechnical they totally ruined it for the kids, on so many levels
Armstrong, Aldrin, and Collins are also immortalized in the Pennsylvania area of Exeter, UK. It is a typical 1970's housing estate, so nothing special.
If Eagle is still orbiting, it would be a worthy mission to go link up with it and check out the material condition. When Columbia jettisoned it, it was holding cabin pressure. It would be interesting to see how much pressure it was still holding. If there is still air in it, I wonder how corroded/decayed things would be inside.
You don't need to get in space for your experiment. You just need 50 years ;-)
What if we find something alive in there?
@@zed7038 a human cell modified by solar radiation? Unfortunately there are many, many reasons this would be impossible but wow that would be cool.
@@killemtoenjoythesilence You can't really decontaminate humans so every manned spacecraft has a bunch of microbes in it. Some of them can survive for long periods of time without food or even oxygen.
@@zed7038 agreed. I wasn't meaning to discredit your comment. I was more so discrediting my silly reaction to your comment. When I read it, for some reason a venom like creature composed of irradiated human cells popped to mind. 🤣 I'm sure you were meaning some type of microbial or bacterial life possibly in hibernation. That would also be great.
I find the idea that Eagle is still in orbit around the Moon rather poignant ...I remember as a kid in 1969 the excitement and hope at the time . It would be amazing if they could retrieve it.
However, even if retrieved, which in itself would be a fantastic, probably somewhat dangerous feat, but probably feasible, there would be no reasonable way to return it to Earth. It has ability to survive anything but space itself. Still, it could be captured in lunar orbit and examined there, including a visit, or at least remotely controlled cam and sensors. I doubt it would be worth the risk of sending someone back into it. Not that much to learn that remote methods couldn't provide, and some potentially very high risk possibilities in what is effectively an almost unknown craft now that it's been up there for 50 years.
@@daviddavis-vanatta1017 : Technically could be carried inside a larger autonomous reentry capsule. But that would be quite costly.
It's more likely to be turned into a tourist attraction by Bezos or Branson.
more like orbiting the film set it was filmed in ha
@@EazyDuz18 : It was last filmed around the Moon.
The internet managed to track down a Minecraft seed using a single low resolution screenshot. I wonder if we could harness that power to track down the Ascent Module around the moon or if there are any undocumented crash sites in LRO data
That would be interesting. Just normalize and run an image diff on moon images to see if there's a change that would make sense.
What is a Minecraft seed for us that live under a rock ?
@@blueredbrick the "seed" is the random looking string of characters that Minecraft uses to generate the procedural world in a single game map.
@@treiz01 Awewome, I understand
Which Minecraft seed from which low resolution screenshot?
Damn, this is really awesome. I've always assumed that the lunar module was long gone with the only hope being Apollo 10, but knowing that Apollo 11 could still be in orbit is crazy.
If true then it's not just 11, but 12, 14, 15, 16, and 17 too I would think.
@@bigal1863 Unfortunately not - 15, 16, and 17 (I think) were intentionally deorbited for science, and the impact craters of 12 and 14 have been found. So only 11 has a chance of having survived.
@@bigal1863 watch from 1:15
I don't mind doing a space walk to recover it. LMK
@@johnsmith1474 Are you the curator?
Scott Manley didn't miss his calling as a science teacher; he just does it on KZhead! Well done, Scott; I learn something new from nearly every one of your videos. You have restored my sense of wonder about the universe we live in and that's a truly special gift. Thank you.
I know ...right?
This just may be the coolest video you've ever made! I never pondered this type of thing until KSP took over my brain. Now, I cant stop. It's great to find that someone is making this technical info available. Thank you so much.
We can never have too much Apollo content
Yep, the Apollo mission's, the astronauts and everything else about Apollo will always be rock star.
True
@Captain Harlock I am absolutely amazed at how so many people still believe that 50 year old propaganda. I mean about half the people who "watched it live" realized it was propaganda way back then. Now we got a bunch of preteen acting young "adults" who will DIE believing that fairytale. Mind boggling. About time for a great reset I'm thinking.
@Captain Harlock just climb back into that hole.
@Captain Harlock it is more expensive to create a lie than it is to actually go to space. But dude you keep believing what ever you want.
The Eagle would sit quite nicely next to the X-1 and the Spirit of St. Louis in that amazing entry room at the Smithsonian’s Air and Space Museum.
Don’t forget the X-15! I used to visit that museum often as a kid, and buy astronaut food. What a wonderful place!
Go, Elon, go. Sure would be nice to go get it.
I agree this would be great. The only thing we got potentially in the near future is Elon Musk’s work to get it.
I would actually put Eagle next to the Wright Flyer. 🙂 I have just recently learned that parts of the Wright Flyer went to the Moon with Neil Armstrong, have flown on the shuttle and that some of the Flyer's fabric is attached to the _Ingenuity_ helicopter on Mars. 👍 to NASA personnel for keeping that linkage. 🙂
Doesn't Columbia (the command module) already sit in there? (Although I know they're refurbishing everything at the moment). They could be reunited after 50+ years!
I think your idea that possibly a ruptured tank or something might have changed it’s orbit quite possible. 50 years is quite a long time. Would be awesome if it was there and it could be captured and returned to earth. I think bringing back the lunar rover would be awesome, give us a huge understanding of what the effects of large periods of time in space under the harsh temperatures and radiations cause on objects such as that.
yea, considering the issues of micrometeor frags and the like, Im doubting there is anything pressurized onboard. But that said, any pressure loss from a strike would cause an automatic inertia component that would likely alter the orbit for better or worse.
Sorry, but the Rover was on the lower module; never to be saved from the dusty surface of our big, grey neighbor.
That woiuld hgave to be one helluva vent. Avent would more likely causwe the LM to hit gimbal lock and an uncontrolled spin.There are really only 2 options. Reach esdcape velocity into the great beyond or impact the asurface. As he said, the elliiptical orbit would degrade with every close pass. With no means of increasing a stable velocity, each pass would get closer until prang, HELLO mOON..Imo.
Can't see how a ruptured tank would change the orbit, unless its contents leave the spacecraft. But why would it? Space is a vacuum so it should all travel at the same speed whatever happens to it. Maybe I'm wrong there, I dunno.
As a Long Islander, I'd LOVE to have Eagle back home.
Although it would be one of those "one in a million" scenarios, it is also possible that small or even micro meteors would have impacted the ascent stage during the past 50 years, imparting unknown forces on the stage at some random angle/vector... Making the orbit even harder to model. Still though this is a very good hypothesis and I think it is worth follow up
And the interior atmosphere lost would add a wee bit of thrust as well.
Those effects are probably still with in the distribution of those simulated as an error in initial conditions.
Why 'one in a million' ? each ascent stage came up to orbit to dock with the CSM and let the astronauts get back into the command module. Then detached and (presumably) the CSM just used orientation thrusters to back gently away.... no particular reason then to crash the ascent stages, so I don't see why all six should not still be there ( 11,12,14,15,16,17 ). All went down - all came back up.
@@geekswithfeet9137 I did read that low lunar orbits encounter additional 'drag' from micro-dust particles the closer you get to the surface. I'm also curious what the extended affect of the solar wind, which ebbs and flows, over 50-odd years may have on the orbit. Maybe 50 years isn't long enough for these chaotic affects to make a noticable difference.
@@johnbidwell2393 I love that this video and some comments just assume a knowledge of chaotic effects, large dependence on initial conditions etc. It's one of my favourite things and it's nice to see it in these videos and comments. Of course, it might have been hit by a bigger meteorite and just exploded as well. Large dependence on big-rock-impact! :-)
This stuff is one of the reasons the internet is a good thing
Sometimes the algorithm does us proud
along with people like Scott who presents difficult material in very interesting ways!
It's good for insomnia too.
Watching it in full screen 2:48 is that fleeting moment when you think Teamviewer has taken over your computer. But seriously,an impressive explanation even if it left me behind after a short while,watching it at the end of a tiring working day. I wouldn't pretend to have understood it all (yet) but I'm glad it appeared in my recommendations.
The internet is quite a marvel, isn't it? Telling NASA the Lunar Module is still alive, solving cold cases all around the world, identifying people in images years after they were taken, saving people's lives from health hazards in their homes despite the internet people never having seen it in person, its a place full of good, bad, ugly but also the surprisingly genuine and the variably smart.
"Space is for everyone" is one of the most empowering statements I have heard in a while. Thanks!
but not Earth, Earth is only for the rich and powerful
Only for humans that is. Heretics, xenos, witches, traitors can safely be purged.
basic law of mankind: everything unreachable is for everyone - until someone succeeds to reach it.
when i see a space in asda car park it's mine...not everyones.
Scott's interpretation of this statement is wonderful and represents exactly the mindset of empowered fascination and curiosity that should be taught in schools.
Fascinating! I always take great pride when someone talks about the Apollo missions. My grand father helped design the hydraulics for stage separation. The thought that the Eagle is still flying is amazing. Especially in a time where NASA has trouble with advanced computers getting a rocket off the ground to return to the moon.
Cool!
@Ronnie Lee Excellent question (about the accent). Excellent answer: the camera was mounted on the landing craft and set to run as the module blasted off: NASA didn't call on Moon-dwellers to perform camera duties. They simply mounted a camera on the Descent Stage of the Lunar Module and pointed it at the steps. That giant leap was relayed live to NASA and TV viewers all over the world via receiving stations on Earth. Let me guess Ronnie, you know the people who set the bombs in the World Trade Center-faking the results of the planes crashing into them? Get REAL bro.
my grandmother helped build the landing gear for the descent stage, she worked in the clean rooms at Grumman.
@@aidanacebo9529 VERY cool! As a Long Islander, I've known a lot of people who worked for Grumman but never heard any of them talk about the LM program.
@@leonardothefabulous3490 is that where those are? I knew that side of the family was from NY but I had no idea where. they never talked about it. I got my dad to spill he was born in buffalo though. that's about it. I'm sure they didn't stay there long. I'm not sure when, but I know it was before he was 10 that they all moved to Florida. grandpa was a WWII vet and brought back some pretty rough baggage. he claimed he was a peacekeeper after the war, but a peacekeeper doesn't bring home a Kai-Gunto navy katana, a flag, a couple helmets, and enough PTSD to leave him swinging by a tie in the closet. my dad found him, really screwed him up at age 4 or 5. he was a good dad though. miss him. died of a heart attack a few years back.
Truly amazing what a hobbyist can accomplish, much respect and kudos.
Imagine if it could be found or even recovered before Buzz Aldrin dies.
I wish
Someone should get in touch with Buzz Aldrin and let him know the state of this research.
What if Buzz doesn't want it to be recovered? Are you willing to risk a sock in the jaw?
Don't say that about Buzz
All his module are belong to us. He will not survive. He should make his time.
First Starship mission to the moon: Pull a "You Only Live Twice", stuff Eagle into the cargo bay, and bring it home. Edit: Wow I think this is now my highest upvoted thing on the entire internet. Can we compromise and just get a museum in stable lunar orbit and make this the centerpiece?
Chances are that all of the air would have leaked out by now. Then bringing it back to Earth would cause it to collapse like an aluminum beer can, unless they somehow pressurized it before re-entry.
@@my3dviews Have the door open in the cargo bay
Every time Scott now says "the moon" I can't help but see it as him saying "the mun". can't unsee/unhear.
@@Geerice Sure, but that would require either an EVA or an airlock into the cargo bay in order to open it. Not sure if Starship will have that capability on it's first flights.
@@anony3615 same
Man, if we could somehow get that lunar module back somehow if it's still flying would be the most awesomeness thing ever!!! Let's get it back!!!!!
As much as I 💕 that idea....I'd rather put that 💰 towards other space exploration n experiments 🥼🧪 for the aid n benefit of all mankind.... AKA Earth 🌎 🌍
@Ronnie Lee Probably the silliest thing I’ve read for a long time. Oh and maybe you could research Ed Fendell
@Ronnie Lee If only you'd done a quick google search to find out how the lunar ascents were filmed, you wouldn't have ended up making yourself look like an ignorant fool. On the Apollo 15,16 and 17 missions, there was a remotely controlled video camera fitted to each of the lunar rovers. At the end of the missions, the rovers were placed at a suitable distance from each of the landing sites so that the camera (remotely controlled from earth) could film the lunar ascent back into the moon's orbit to re-dock with the command module.
I had models of all those spacecraft when I was a kid. Watched all the Apollo missions as they happened. I was in the 6th grade in 1969 and I remember when the Eagle landed and when Neil Armstrong came out of the Lunar Module and said those famous words.
just subscribed. A bit of minor note: at 1:20 into the video is shown the lander blasting off from it's support structure. In the late '60's my Father machined pieces of that structure. He was proud of that throughout his life. A career tool/die man and machinist, he was brilliant. I remember watching all that as an 8 year old. Great stuff, and you have a brilliant mind.
machining stuff for space is super interesting, working with space grade alloys and getting the perfect precision and surface finish so everything goes according to plan. I can't think of something more worth being proud of
@@xymaryai8283 I worked for about a year in a big shop doing work for Ball, Ford, Martin-Marietta and Coors aerospace. We made space ship parts but the names were redacted on the blueprints.
Your dad created the paper mache craft..?
SaltyTate, thanks for the comment. I was blessed with a good sense a humor and needed that laugh. But no, he didn’t dabble in paper. I’m really not sure exactly what parts he made, I think it had to do with the landing gantry. He’s long passed now. He also built critical parts for the B1 bomber as well as other aircraft. I’ve heard similar comments over the years, it doesn’t bother me at all. Take care and carry on.
@@dustytables3638 good stuff dusty, just kidding obviously. God bless him and god bless you. Take care
It is really sad that only Buzz is left from the Apollo 11 crew. Michael Collins and Neil Armstrong are gone. Getting old and watching your heros die really sucks. Aldrin, Collins and Armstrong took part in one of, if not the most important missions in the history of mankind. We will always remember and honor them, but it just sucks that these amazing dudes aren't around anymore.
Lol Neil A. spell that backwards and wonder if we haven’t been played as fools from the beginning
Buzz Aldrin is so full of himself that I think he would be so proud of himself as been the last of the Apollo 11 crew!
@@grabbag6314 Keep on drinking that Kool-Aid, bud... because whatever is in it has Definitely taken you to one hell of an "altered state". 🙄🤣
@@Danny691966 Actually, he IS. so, your point was...?
Joe Biden is still alive. Allegedly. 🤪
I think it could be a good target for the Radar team, Forgot the name of the project but they were planning to use Ground based Radar to track the NEOs so they experimented on moon so they were able to accurately track and find orbit for LRO and as a test they also were able to find Chandrayan of ISRO which was lost a year after it entered lunar orbit so i think they could do Eagle and others too as Chandrayan was very small
As a kid of 14 years old when they landed on the moon, when the pieces of "moonrock" came over from the USA for schools to look at, I actually held a small piece in my hand, and as I am now nearly 68, I have never forgotten that magical feeling while at Harry Cheshire Sec Modern school in 1970/71. To think that piece of rock had travelled over a quarter of a million miles to sit in my 15 year old hand. How amazing is that ? To me, its still mind boggling 😲
You just held a piece of rock from here, not there. Go look up either Switzerland or the Netherlands proving the same a few years ago. No one goes to space. All rockets are simply helium-filled dirigibles that go up 20 miles, make a 90° turn, then fall into their ocean graveyards.
@@pointzerotwo Amazing… every word of what you just said was wrong. Not a single Moon rock that NASA handed out has ever been proven to be anything but what they claimed. That is a fact. Every single geologist or mineralogist who has ever examined any lunar sample agrees that it is not of this world.
@@the18thdoctor3 You can’t prove one word of what you wrote. So your claim that Mr Weaver is wrong is itself WRONG. I remember those times myself well & the excitement. You don’t know anything about that time; it shows. We lived it; we read every book & magazine available on space flight & spacecraft, as all space nerds did. We knew all the details of every Mercury, Gemini & Apollo flight; the different rockets; the capsules, & the Soviet programme. The remains of the Apollo missions can be seen on photos taken by the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter occasionally. Even a lunar rover left! I’m sorry you missed all that experience; But the current idea of simply denying something ever happened & then it didn’t, doesn’t work in Real Life, with Real People- not with Elections, or Moon Landings. We went to the moon in 1969 & continued to do so, sending 6 Apollos & 24 astronauts to the surface of the moon. Undeniable facts.
@@patkennedy2620 I was not replying to Mr. Weaver, but rather to a Moon landing denier who has since deleted their comment. Please re-read my comment, I was affirming the legitimacy of the Moon landings.
wow that's amazing
Around 1971 or 72 our high school math club acquired a teletype computer (terminal) with punched paper tape for storage of programs, and it ran BASIC. The only reason I joined the Math Club was to learn to write, run and play with simple programs. We came across Lunar Lander and down loaded it. To run even the most basic programs we had to connect long-distance over the phone (modem) to a UNIVAC mainframe at the university 90 miles away. We were restricted to after-hours and a certain number of hours per week due to cost to the school. Somehow one of the students figured how to bypass the password system, and we got unlimited use. It was so much fun! There were no graphics capabilities, only data inputs and outputs (initial speed and altitude, retrorocket burn rate and time, and remaining fuel. We mostly created a lot of new craters!) A year or two later I took a summer course for HS students at the local university to learn FORTRAN programming (with teletype punch cards and reams of paper). My study group chose a final project to write a program for Battleship, and print out the moves on a giant plotter. Such technological advancements!
One of the first computer games I ever played on the old TRS-80 we owned was a lunar lander simulator. 99% of the time I crashed it into the moon!
...and here we are 50 short years later filling huge servers with petabytes of mind numbing, mostly worthless information at terabyte speeds! What was that Mr. Dylan? "The times they are a-changin'?"
Loved your message at the end about space being for everyone, in a way I hadn’t considered before
I think The Mars Society has a spin-off project called Mars-VR which would allow rovers and drones to send data back to earth, and citizen scientists could walk through, review and vote on artefacts requiring closer inspection. Greater access is exciting.
It's incouraging especially for people like me in Zimbabwe
There exists a very long and venerable tradition of astronomy observatories working together with amateur scientists.
STD's are for everyone too.
I think he added that because I have been seeing a lot more anti space stuff from people online recently in the wake of bezos and branson making their launches. My view is that I'd rather billionaires spend their dragon hoards on getting more humans into space instead of on mega-mega-yachts or whatever it is they do normally.
This definitely puts the conversations on the Flight Dynamics (FIDO) loops on Apollo 11 and 13's MOCR tapes into context. Thanks for mentioning GMAT!
Kind of related, many many years ago (1970's) the Gemini 12 re-entry capsule was on display at MOTAT (Museum of Transport and Technology) in Auckland New Zealand, the capsule door was open but had a perspex cover over it and they had a walkway so you could climb up and look inside, I got to go see it a few times I can remember as a young boy being absolutely amazed by it, it's a highlight in my childhood memories. I believe it was returned to the US a long time ago now.
build a museum on the moon and have this be one of the exhibits
Sort of like Futurama, where the Moon is full of hicks and there's a theme park of animatronics singing about being whalers on the moon.
Better yet, build a museum in an identical lunar orbit literally around the ascent module, without disturbing it.
The museum is already there, it is called TMA-1
Build it in orbit around the moon.
Futurama did this in an episode
Thank you Scott. For self-starters everywhere, those were some needed words of encouragement.
Very Exciting Scott ! Maybe they'll take on the task of re location as a priority when we eventually return to near Lunar orbit ? Fascinated with the irregular gravitational effects of moon and it's impact on locating voids, craters and sites of resources for later trips to use in a lunar base perhaps ?
interesting content . my grandfather was one of the men who was on the build team on the guidance system of Apollo 11. it be neat to see if it was still up there a piece of my grandfather so to speak . wish he was still with us .
You're such a badass, Scott. I'm so blessed to have watched you all these years. You're an inspiration.
"A keyboard...how quaint!"...Scotty
Computer?...ahem....Computer?
The he holds up the mouse to his lips and says… “computer?!”..
@@jacobjones5269 I know, I was inserting the prelude conversation :) Great scene
Then, annoyed that the computer didn't listen, Scotty sits down and types like 100 wpm
"There be whales Captain"
Magnificent episode, Scott. Spirited and engaging like most of your content, yes, but especially so, this time.
I'm way past the point that I could consider further education or a career in the field of astronomy/astrophysics, but it was so cool to see that NASA provides a free program for anyone to just tinker with values and learn about space flight planning. This has to get a lot more attention at schools and it can provide many young talented kids with a study and career into this field.
Scott your videos are really good , they look better then Nat geo documentaries. Keep up the great work 👍👍👍👍
Well, it is Humans Right, but may wanna stay in your own universe. Eron tried that one, unless, Space x is boring.
Nat geo is a really low bar. Anything that gets shown on television is. That was true 10 years ago, and it's even more true now. To say Scott Manley surpasses that is an understatement. ZeFrank surpasses that bar, for crying out loud. How odd that crowdsourced hobbyists would be better than the most expensive platforms and media giants.
@@fordman9912 Is this Google translated? What is this sentence.
@@neondemon5137 mm so does governmental conspiracies, such as actors and such 🛎🔔
@@fordman9912 you ok buddy?
This is really incredible that these tools are available, and I’m incredibly glad that people are making good use out of them! Perhaps if we find Eagle, we can send a cargo starship out to bring her home.
@@johnsmith1474 Go troll somewhere else.
@@johnsmith1474 i agree
@@johnsmith1474 lmao fuck is wrong with you?
@edwong3 Probably more, like a long ways north of $750M. TO say nothing of the risk to human life getting the job done, unless it could be done robotically. One thing for sure, we have to find it first, and so far, no luck with that. Not even a hint - like an impact crater, or a radar blip.
Wow, this is a really fascinating twist. Just to locate it and capture an image would be amazing, let alone retrieving it for display in a museum!
I enjoyed this. Well done. I think it’s reasonable…and like how you also pointed out that there are a lot of variables too. Also hats off to those thorough mathematical calculations that were done back in those days. And all of the effort put forth. I am hopeful that it is still out there. I was just 7 years old. It’s a little time capsule. And it warms my heart to think that it might be. It’s such a valuable part of mankind’s history. Cheers.
amazing if it's still out there - it would be great to recover it
It'll be great if Starship can capture it and bring it back to Earth
@@nbdd0121 never happen
History
It's one thing to send an empty vessel to recover it but it's something very different to return it intact. It was only ever intended to be a single purpose vehicle so no provision was ever made to it in order to recapture it. There is no easy way to grab hold of it, nothing to fasten to and no base for it to sit on when it's being returned. It would be severely damaged by gravity, restraining and handling because it wasn't designed to be recaptured and retuned.
@@ianc4901 if it still survives, could we use a docking port the same as the ascent stage on starship and have a crew dock it? And with gentle acceleration keep in LEO?
Scott, I really do appreciate your final conclusion today. Experience and insight created by one’s own studies will last for decades if not the whole life,
Very well done and informative. I remember watching the landing on television.
🤣
Love you channel and content. Keep making us smarter.. ty
Mission: Recover Aldrin's Derelict from low lunar orbit
Hear that Tom Cruise?? It's your next MI movie that practically wrote itself!
KSP reference?
@lepperkin Exactly.
Space Cowboy Archeologist: "It belongs in the museum!"
And why not make it an installation at the first museum in Luna City!
Shady Space Private Collector: “So do you!”
It belongs in orbit around the
Nice one Dr Jones.
So do you!
My dad worked at TRW in the late 60s, including work on Apollo 11. I've got mission reports and charts at home that I collected while he was there. Mercury and Gemini stuff too. Maybe some of it could be useful to answer questions like this?
I love the idea that somewhere in space, our equipment is quietly gliding around, so long after the earth is gone, these bits of kit will still be travelling through space.
Voyager one is approximately 14.6 billion miles from earth and still going.
I think that is actually called Veeger!
@@RayFromTexas1 ahhh a Star Trek fan. 👍
@@RayFromTexas1 👍😎
Neat "thing" to try and figure out. Thank you Scott. I like the focus on freely available tools and datasets, especially lately. I'm quite positive that you are helping to motivate folks to try their hand at data science through astronomy and physics.
This is truly why the Internet was invented. Smart, fun, insightful, and leaves you with a sense of positive all. Keep up the outstanding work. I have shared this on Facebook.
Don't know if that was a good idea, 90% of people on FB wouldn't know what the earth is called.
I agree with you all expect the part about going to the moon for real. Ya'll know that was fake and NASA can not be trusted. At least they do great animations. Do we have real photo evidence of the old ascent module's? By other satilites or powerful earth telescopes?
The Internet was created to maintain command and control in the event of a nuclear holocaust or other catastrophic event. They plan on sending you a tax bill regardless of what happens!
Thanks Scott, fascinating video. Particularly appreciated your final point about the tools and data available to all of us and the consequent egalitarian opportunities of space research. Keep up the good work!
The amount of information and detail that went into these Apollo missions was mind-blowing. ❤
“They went through a lot of iterations coming up with the perfect shape to give them the most volume, the best windows, and [a design that] wouldn’t kill anyone onboard,” said the astrophysicist Scott Manley in a private video shared with the Guardian. “And this is the shape they came up with, this dome shape.” you've made the news in the UK 🇬🇧👏
A Guardian keeps things safe. Pretty apt considering Scott's sign off catchphrase.
What a load of garbage, no one left the earths atmosphere
@@frankmcnally01 No one cares about what you think Frank. You aren't going to sway anybody's opinion here. So maybe you should either stop trolling, or hang out with your own kind. You will be less miserable. Everyone will be happier.
@@rich-wl9iuHats off to you, Rich. I doubt that even Frank likes his own kind.
@@frankmcnally01 And what makes you think that? Do you think it continues infinitely?
The lunar orbit info is interesting. Finally something I didn't know from playing KSP
Great video! Keep it up Scott.
I wonder, does this modeling include the change in momentum from the release of Columbia? They weren't using explosive bolts or anything, so the force wouldn't be too high, but it might still have influenced Eagle's orbit past the point of the last telemetry data
Scott, your videos always deliver! Thank you for everything you do!
Thank you, Scott, for your research and that finishing line!
At 2:16 you can the orbiting craft wobble quite distinctly, first one way, then the other. On close inspection one can see at least one light-coloured dot - evidently a nozzle - that is clearly moving, and, a short distance below it (treating the image as a two-dimensional thing), one can just make out a slight puff of exhaust from another point.
video is sped up by a lot, it took a while for the 2 spaceships to reach each other
Thank you so much Scott! Really uplifting
One of your BEST episodes Scott ! . . . great pointers on doing REAL space research with free (or cheap) software and telescopic observations.
So cool, great video! I hope it is still out there and can one day somehow end up in a museum. Can you imagine? That would be nuts.
Really enjoyed the video Well done! Great show
Wow!!! I never realized that these programs/ Tools were available for public use. Thank you for this educational video.
Wow, Montecarlo simulation applied to orbits! Thank you Mr. Manley - it would be fantastic if one day we could recover the ascent module of the Apollo 11 LEM...
Imagine finding it, in almost pristine condition and peering through the window. What would you see? Armstrong and Aldrins trash? A few flight manuals floating around? Imagine powering it back up after all these years. (If even possible) The lights flickering to life, once again. A snapshot of an era, perfectly preserved. The last people to occupy the cabin, to live in it, work in it, legendary. Just knowing it might still be orbiting the moon, is exciting! It got them all the way down to the surface and all the way back up to orbit. Now, it will forever orbit that which it came to visit. A testament to human ingenuity. A symbol of how high and far we can reach when we put our minds to the task. A lonely monument, destined to outlast it’s creators. Let Eagle remain in orbit. But at least, let us have some new pictures of her in flight!
You forgot a bucket of shit. Total waste of time. It's not coming back
@@alrevels2510 WTF? Did you even read post you replied to? He said to just leave it there orbiting forever and I think that is a great idea
Like Al Revels mentioned there would probably be bags of biological trash floating around. I am very interested in how it is now, you are a good writer, thanks Thomas. I also agree that it should just be left in orbit if it's still there.
I doubt it would power up after all these years of being frozen solid. Particularly not moving parts like the gyros.
Maybe boost it into a higher / more stable orbit at least. It would suck to have it eventually impact the Moon years later for whatever reason.
Beautiful work! I've been thinking of doing an analysis like this for years but never got around to it. Do we have high resolution LRO imagery of the entire lunar equator? A good crowd-sourced project would be to examine them for an impact crater. We have several examples of known LM ascent stage impact craters on LRO so we know what they look like.
Can you share a kind of tutorial about the using of GMAT? And other resources? Thanks for this video and all the information
Too neat! Would be cool to recapture that piece of history, for all mankind. SpaceX? You surely catch Scott Manley, how about it?
Leaving it there is a better monument.
@@anzaca1 if it is still in orbit, it may yet see that orbit decay and crash. Catching it before that happens, if it hasn't yet happened, would be saving an amazing piece of history.
@@commerce-usa especially twenty two years later. Would be interesting to at least see if it's covered in a thin layer of cosmic dust or had any micrometeorite impacts.
Anyone but NASA would NEVER be given permission to even get in an orbit close to it. NASA has already made it VERY clear to all other organizations to not come within several kilometers of Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 on the Lunar surface, I highly doubt the ascent stage would be any different.
sticking a tracker or making sure it stays in a stable orbit woulf be nice
8:14 for those that don't know astronomical terminology 'perturbing forces' pretty much means slight orbital changes in velocity due to gravitation to those other celestial bodies (earth and sun).
Hi Tarian
Thanks for mansplaining
Cheers for that you learn something new everyday
This is very interesting. Great content. Is there an organization that deals (buy, sell, trade) in Apollo 11 memorabilia?
Yep. Ebay.
Appreciate the motivation at the end of thr video.
Amazing video! As someone who works in the field of astrodynamics using GMAT and some software, the explanation and walkthrough was excellent!
Love your content!
@@citizenblue Thank you!
I’m still trying to figure out where I left my reading glasses before I went to bed last night 🤔
LOL funny.
Maybe theres an app for that?
I have a backup pair, inspired by NASA.
Yup I woke up with them hooked to my shirt lol
Maybe they're in an unstable orbit around the moon. You should ask NASA if they can look for them when they decide to recover Apollo11's ascent stage. Or maybe you can reach out to Musk on twitter.
I got to see the Apollo 11 CM, “Columbia” at the Smithsonian National Air & Space Museum in 1991. There was also a moon rock exhibit that allowed one to put one’s hand inside and actually touch it.
That was fascinating - thank you for explaining this. Having just re-watched Hidden Figures (again), this is inspiring.
This is an amazing opportunity for people to explore and learn. I didn’t know these programs were available. I’ll let my grandkids know about this. Great video.
There will be technology far more interesting for your grandkids to wade through.
This is bollocks, I suggest you teach your decedents about real history.
Don’t expose your grandkids to extra nonsense
@@Justinedmonds1988 Not nonsense if it's actually something interesting that gets them into science.
@@frankmcnally01 >real history. Care to give any examples? Like say... How Humans are actually aliens that the Galactic Confederacy ruler Xenu/Xemu rounded up, froze, then dumped (via DC-8-like spaceships) in Hawaii's Volcanoes on Earth (aka Teegeeack) then nuked, that turned into "Spirits" 75 million years ago, and said Evil Alien Ruler is why you feel sad? By the way that's an actual religion people believe in, and spend a fortune on. It's called Scientology. They'll SWEAR it's real, but you know it isnt. You're gonna tell me that they spent more money faking a moon landing with tech they dont have, even though the PUBLICLY AVAILABLE ENGINEERING IS ACTUALLY ABLE TO DO IT, and it'd be overall far easier to do for real, than fake? You're also telling me Russia wouldnt call America on it's bullshit if they did fake it? You know telescopes strong enough to look at the moon existed back then, right? Russia would 100% fucking blast "The capitalist dogs lied about their feat to look better than us" and rub it in America's face the entire time, and then land on the Moon for real, just to spite America, and prove they did. Tell me how the moon landing was actually faked in 1969 if it's fake.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if they ever captured this and brought it back to Earth, would it not be the longest direct exposure to space of any man made object that has returned? The scientific data alone would be worth bringing this back for. Then, after all the analysis put it in the Air and Space Museum as the centerpiece of it's collection.
It would be extremely difficult not only to capture it, but above all make it reenter the atmosphere. More realistically, it could be possible to intercept it, enter into it and take samples that could be analysed on earth
@@alainrobillard4300 SpaceX Starship is pretty big, maybe put on a big hatch, capture the Eagle and return to Earth.
@@daviddennis5789 Nothing is impossible (or almost) when you have the money for it. But this would cost big money. Question will be: is it worth it?
America’s second satellite, Vanguard 1, was launched into space on March 17, 1958. And although that was about six months after the Soviet's Sputnik satellite, it still remains in orbit - more than 60 years later. Whereas the Apollo 11 lunar module has been on the surface of the Moon since 20, July, 1969.
Wrath about just leaving it there and observing it over time?
oddly, the idea that it's still up there makes me happy.
Hey Scott, could you share the source for the lunar surface footage? Amazing stuff! Cheers!
Scott is so smart and all the man wants to do is bless us with his kindness and knowledge. Mans a treasure of the world.
LOVE the message here!! I too started out my interest in space science by using open source astronomical data processing tools and associated data and highly recommended it to anyone.
What works of yours are now online for others to enjoy and geek out on?
Beautiful! Yes, we should look for it :-)
“But Captain, we can’t possibly make her orbit that long. We don’t have enough dilithium crystals! She’ll crash for sure!”
I talked with a NASA trajectory expert, and the heading at 7:10 is correct. It was based on the Earth's pole, and not the Moon's. Seems odd to show it in that frame of reference, but must have added some value at the time. (I assume related to the return orbit or re-entry to Earth, or maybe the near -90 had to little value.) The "expert" appreciated your link to the Meador paper, as he had not seen that yet.
Yes, initially I thought that must be the source of the error. But when you plug in that value from the mission report and shift to Earth-centric coordinates, it still doesn't come out right. So in the paper I state that the value is wrong "for unknown reasons". Remember that those Mission Reports were typed by hand, and someone was probably transcribing numbers from line printer output. Perhaps they copied a value from the wrong part of the table?
Me at the beginning of the video: “He’s going to explain that Eagle’s orbit decayed because of lumpy looney lunar gravity.” Me at the end of the video: “My mind has been opened significantly.”
Same here. I would have given it only months due to the MasCons.
Same
Same here. I remembered learning that there are no stable orbits around the moon. That's the half life of knowledge right there.
So Apollo11 and Artemis1 we're together for a short time? Oh!❤️❤️❤️
@Ronnie Lee There's 24-hour cctv coverage at a transport depot near me, and it seems to me that you DON'T need a camera man to stay behind and film it...
That is allot of detail. If this level of detail and computer calculations was shown to mission control in 1969.... and said it was from 50 years in the future... My Dad was an Aeronautical Engineer on the Apollo missions. It was a great time.
Scott, .. it was really inspiring, thanks a lot!
If they can find it, they MUST attempt to retrieve it. It’s literally priceless.
I mean, it doesn't look like it's going anywhere... so maybe wait with the retrieval until we have a moon base and put it in the lobby or something =)
@@unvergebeneid just imagine the amount of radiation it has accumulated over 50 years in orbit)
Even if that were feasible it would be a mission with enormous cost with no scientific value. I think NASA have other priorities
@@rogermouton2273 no possible mission has no scientific value, but yeah i agree. leave it in orbit, it isn't contributing to any space debris problems that we should fix before then, and if possible it should be maintained as a space borne single item museum. leave it be, maybe study how the materials held up over long periods of space exposure, but not much more. certainly do not take things from it to sell as souvenirs lmao
@@xymaryai8283 that could be a real risk one day. It does need to be captured and preserved. On Earth or the Moon
Great video. I can not think of a better way for Scott to show that "space is for everyone." It is great that NASA makes the tools and data available for free to anyone who might be interested.
I had no idea.... Well done Scott!!
This is fascinating. Thank you for sharing it with us. 👍
“Below the sea level” is an interesting term for regions on the moon.
Well, there are features named sea's. Like the sea of tranquility! :)
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom Gaah. You beat me to this! 😁
"Sea Level" on Earth is what we call the geodetic datum. But every body in hydrostatic equilibrium has one. And if you expand the definition a bit to allow nongeoid shaped things like asteroid rubble piles and space rocks, you can even define one for them, too.
Pardon this ,if you’ve already heard this amusing tale. It seemed that after returning from their Apollo 11 mission , Armstrong, Aldrin & Collins rode together in a taxi to one of many awards ceremonies celebrating their accomplishments. Armstrong and Aldrin departed the taxi for the Smithsonian for the ceremony while Collins remained with the taxi completing 12 orbits of the block.
Great analysis and video! The math is very much beyond my comprehension (I’m a Finance guy), but I’ve always been fascinated by space since childhood . It would be amazing to confirm that the LM is still in orbit…
The ascent stage for Apollo 16 LM Orion was meant to be intentionally deorbited but a missed circuit breaker meant NASA ground controllers were unable to control the stage and command it to deorbit. It would be interesting to see someone plug its last known orbital elements into that program and see where it ended up.
No one checked that all the circuit breakers were [voice going up in shock] in place before launch??
@@veramae4098 The crew was tired, under a time limit, and several pages of the checklist were either omitted or changed due to the altered flight plan (they left lunar orbit a day early) and in their haste something got missed. Instead of holding attitude like it was supposed to, Orion just started slowly tumbling after it was cut loose. Apollo 16 was a flight full of headaches and not being able to deorbit Orion after discarding it was just another cherry on the cake.
@@veramae4098 All the circuit breakers were in both Spacecraft, the crew just forgot to activate one of them when getting rid of the Lunar Module.
Well, at least we can say an Orion got to the Moon before 2024.
Amazing. Thanks Scott. I like your pitch for Citizen Science. Well done all around
this is a great idea of possible things thanks scott
What they could eventually do, once we have a permanent base on the moon, is get multiple smaller autonomous unmanned rocket craft to match its speed, grab onto it with robotic arms, and use retro rockets to slow it down and gently land it. Then transport it to the site of the landing, and put it back onto the descent module, and that location can be one if the big space tourism locations!
You are truly an interspace entrepreneur!