Reuse of salvaged / junk fridge compressor - oil change and flush...
2022 ж. 9 Там.
10 693 Рет қаралды
In this video, I show one way to drain as much as possible of the old / contaminated oil from a "disposable" sealed fridge compressor.
As with most mechanical devices, compressors are generally very reliable until operated outside of their design limits; or when the oil within the compressor no longer protects the moving parts from wear and corrosion.
Many "re-used" compressors fail because they were removed from a system and left open to air. Once exposed to air and moisture, degradation of the the oil results; particularly with more modern POE oil equipped models. If this oil is replaced before putting the compressor back in service, the chance of longterm success is improved.
Reuse is always a good thing. Wish this happened more often, but we live in a throwaway world. :(
Reuse comes before recycle.
11:03 Me after taco bell!!
Lol
I like SAVING what can be saved!
Thank you; same here.
@@davida1hiwaaynet great job Brother
@@bobgilliland9974 Thanks!
Chap you don't have to defend yourself regarding cost effectiveness. You're doing a great job 👍
Thank you Dean. I really appreciate your comment! I don't feel bad at all about my ideas and ways I do things. I just want to preempt all the keyboard warrior comments!
Exactly. "Fix it, patch it, MAKE IT DO. This was the watch-phrase during the 2nd world war. Thank God for people like you, showing folks get-by-in-hard-times alternatives.💪🏻💪🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thank you for the great comment. I agree that we need to remain prepared for a life not as easy as it is now. In my little corner of the world, things are great but overall; all is not well.
You are 100 percent right start practicing now while we can.
What a Brilliant Vidclip .... Thanks a Stack .... Best to You and Yours from ChCh, NZ
So glad you enjoyed it!
Doing an oil change on an refrigerator compressor sounds crazy. Especially when most people don't even change oil in their cars
It may sound crazy, but it's not. The factors at play are different between a fridge compressor and a car engine. The car engine gradually uses up the oil and it gets replaced; and car engines can keep working (albeit poorly) in spite of being in deteriorated condition. Sealed compressors need a charge of perfectly clean oil without contaminants because that same oil has to last the life of the compressor. If the refrigeration system is left open for a long time (lines cut etc) then moisture will be absorbed into the oil. Once the oil absorbs moisture or is contaminated, it needs to be replaced with clean oil before the compressor is once again sealed into a system.
I'd never have thought that this would be the kinda content i want to see
Thank you.
@@davida1hiwaaynet very enjoyable video
Hey in your last two videos I have learned more about fridge compressors then I have ever known in my life Thanks
So glad you're finding them helpful!
Excellent David! There was an A/C tech. at one of the facilities that I worked at who was from the Philippines, who told me they always repaired their compressors.
Yep, they do rebuild them over there. They have been doing it for decades, although some of the more recent videos are clearly fake restoration trash. The antique and vintage ones I do cut open and repair, but unless things get worse, these more modern ones are available enough to make that not worthwhile.
I've worked with loads of Philapino''s, they alll talk a good job
Fantastic David, thoroughly enjoy your channel and agree 100%.
I liked this video learned a lot I will be doing this my self thanks William C Cabarrus jr
Brilliant video. Very informative. Thank you.
You're right about the shortage of parts. Infact it might be worse than you think. I waited months for a head gasket for a 3 year old yanmar engine, it arrived yesterday. That $60 part took a $150k refrigerated box truck out of service for over 4 months. I currently have a 20ft box truck waiting on a reefer compressor, according to Thermo King, I should get one in the next 6 months.
That is frustrating about the parts shortages. It is a huge problem and shows how our country is now reaping what has been sown for the past few decades. We are paying the price for sending all out manufacturing out of the country. This is what many people warned about when the US manufacturing industry was just starting to decline.
If the engine is for the backup generator, wouldn't a temporary workaround be to get an automatic start Honda generator and bodge it in?
@@NiHaoMike64 I think on the reefer unit, the Yanmar engine is integrated with a compressor for the system. These are packaged to fit under the cowling on a trailer-mounted unit, so any modifications would be very difficult.
@@davida1hiwaaynet Isn't it just a matter of finding a spot to mount the external generator to and do a little rewiring? Or just connect the generator to the external power input.
Another great informational video. 👍 Thanks Dave.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I really like these videos. Best I've seen on the subject! I have two old machines and wish I talk with someone like you to help me out. One of my cavalier starts and runs for a few min. then stops then starts again then after does not start again for about 30 min. Amps at about 7 and up to 9. It still has pressure and Freon to. I've changed start capacitor as well.
Hi there. What you are experiencing is a moisture blockage. Your system has generated water internally over the years. After it runs and cycles, the moisture interacts with oil and refrigerant and forms an ice or oil emulsion blockage in the capillary tube. Can't equalize pressures and therefore can't restart until system has warmed up totally and the blockage subsides. There is only one way to fix this. You will have to replace the filter-drier and also heat up the entire system while the vacuum pump is attached and running. Needs to be "baked out" perferably overnight at about 130°F to remove every trace of moisture from the lines and oil. After that, it can be recharged and it will work fine.
Thank you. I'll give that a try.
You are a fantastic teacher
Thanks Mary! Much appreciated.
Great Informration!!!!
Glad you got this Compressor reused I enjoyed the video
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great idea on the socket!
Glad you found that useful! Helps to keep from drilling too deeply.
First I have to apologize for the bad actors on KZhead. Seem that there are always a few bad apples in the basket. Second, I like your repair method you used. One tip I can think of is that when you solder anything you wipe the solderd part with a wet watered rag as soon as you are done soldering. That was taught to me years ago by ture craftsmans. Something that is lacking these days for some reason. Keep up the great work and teaching us all a few things about refrigeration compressors.
You are right about the wet rag. I often use my water bottle to spray the line after it's been soldered. That is especially important when you have used the acid flux on the lines. I used acid flux on the compressor, and did wipe it down with water afterwards. I can't remember if I showed that in the video or not and don't have time to re-watch it. I think I wiped with water, then brake cleaner, then painted it black There are a lot of very small minded people on the Internet. It has become so widely available that the sheer number of people on the net has made it so that you are bound to encounter idiots. I just delete their chaff posts and use the moderation tools available to remove them from my field of view.
@@davida1hiwaaynet You did use a spray bottle of water onto a paper towel to clean the acid flux from the surface. That is the ticket we were both taught by men who were giants and we were able to stand on their shoulders too. Knowledge is something that has to be passed on. So nice that you have the KZhead feature to delete the idiots chaff from the field of view. I just am still puzzled as to how harsh these idiots really are and most do not even have a clue as to what is really going on. PERIOD. I just hope you keep on making your videos and inform us all on different refrigeration things. I can tell you I will be using many of your ideas for my own projects on my house. You know making things efficient save one some solid greenbacks. Peace and God bless to you fella too. vf
Thanks for the informative video. It answered all my questions about compressor preparation and I look forward to using it on mine. Most appreciated.
Glad it was helpful!
Spiral tap will aim the chip outside, so no chips in the unit. Anyway there will be tramp metal inside from the manufacture, and because of wear naturally, so a chip or two extra no big issue. Changing the oil anyway is good, I have used old R12 and R22 compressors out of fridges that were scrapped as pumps, and they work well to pump down systems to recover the old refrigerant out to do repair, like changing out a condenser. Just had to add in a spare filter drier on inlet and outlet, plus some valves, so the pump could be started under no load, and then cut off the bypass to get suction going.
Very good use for an old compressor! I do plan to build a mini-recovery machine for use with small volumes of refrigerant when I don't want to lose a bunch of the gas in a full size recovery machine.
Very meticulous, Good info. I like your philosophy, it is similar to mine. This thinking served me well since the early 70's.
Thank you!
Another great video, very informative. The supply chain issues are crazy, chips that TI and National Semiconductor have been making for almost 40 years like the TL-082 Op Amp were back ordered for more than 3 months.
Thanks! And yeah this supply chain situation is a mess. I hope it subsides soon; plus I hope that it will be a wake-up call and lead to some improvements in how things are managed in the future.
People would give you grief for taking a compressor you got for $0 and turning it into a spare for your shelf? Anyway, great video!
Glad you enjoyed it. You wouldn't believe the inane comments people make. There are those who watch videos and make one-line, small-brain negative comments for whatever reason. Sometimes it's because they feel inadequate in their own abilities. Other times it's because they were "educated" that their different opinion is "the only way" which is correct. Regardless of their motivation, I simply delete the comments with no fanfare.
Great work
Thank you!
Excellent.
Good job.Greetings from Iraq.
Love this video
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it!
great video david! reuse rocks! haters be dammed!
You are a true craftsman, engineer and technician. Thanks for taking the time to teach.
I normally save compressors from junked fridges too, cheap and beats any new junk from china
As they say "waste not, want not" which is a concept we need to keep going.
I know I’m late to this party, but just had to comment. I’ve watched maybe thousands of DIY KZhead videos, and very often I do read many of the comments. I got sick of the anonymous keyboard warriors constantly complaining about this or that. It got to where I was getting really belligerent with some of them, shaming them terribly, especially as they were there just to cause hate and discontent. I got more nice comments from the creators of the videos for that. It just burns my a$$ that our society has degraded to the point that it just seems acceptable to flame people from anonymity, just because you can. Well many of them got the same treatment from me. But that’s not something I wouldn’t have done in person. There’s no excuse for behavior like that, and if it happens around me, I’ll call it out. On a nicer note, this is one of the more technically savvy videos I’ve seen in a long time. I just love how you worked professionally, methodically, safely, and set the best example of a teacher for those looking to learn. Heck I learned a few things, and I did HVAC work for many years. Excellent video. I also liked how you explained to each detractor why you did what you did, and shut them down. Great work!
Hi Charles; thank you for the comment! When the Internet was a new thing, there were far fewer armchair warriors out there. I think this may be one manifestation of a larger problem in our society. Certain people are coming to realize that what they have been indoctrinated to believe may not actually be true; or is shifting away from truth faster than they are prepared to accept. One response to this is to lash out and try to "quell" what they don't like seeing. I work in industry and have to help people understand equipment and how to operate and maintain it. That way of thinking spills over into my hobbies, as well. Try to keep professionalism whenever possible!
Hey David , heck with all the haters and trolls while they are doing all their complaining and hating , they could be doing something useful with their lives , like what you are doing. love your videos , as i am learning a lot about refrigeration. Coming from a high voltage and motor control background , i liked the video of the compressor motor burnout,interesting that it ran as long as it did 👍 you should try finding a small DC series motor and do a video of it running with no load 😉 again , great videos and keep up the good work
Hi, thanks for the comment! I appreciate it. Those who make non-constructive comments are just part of being on the Internet. They exist, are miserable, and I ignore them and allow them to share the misery among themselves but not with my viewers. I'm not one to do destruction videos unless there is some science to be learned from it. It's just how I am. I don't enjoy wanton destruction of things. Happy that you're learning some about refrigeration from me!
Reminds me of a compressor I salvaged as teenager to use as a vacuum pump. I'm sure the oil was really contaminated after years of sucking air for my experiments, but it never showed a problem. Great video! You always explain and describe what you are doing so nicely!
Doing the same right now. Should I keep oil in it or will it seize using it as a vacuum pump for a few minutes at a time.
Hi there. These compressors absolutely require oil for any operation; even for a moment. Need to fill it with oil before any running. They generally make poor vacuum pumps unless you are only looking to make minimal vacuum of around 26 to 28" mercury.
@@davida1hiwaaynet The "vacuum" i create was much of a vacuum - just enough to get a nice neon tube type discharge using air as the gas. I just left the original oil in. Any idea replacing the original oil with vacuum oil would help - or might it be the wrong viscosity for the pumps design?
@@ElectromagneticVideos I expect that "real" vacuum pump oil would be a good idea. Most of it is 250 SUS viscosity and these compressors would be OK with that.
@@davida1hiwaaynetPerfect, thanks. Lots leaked out so I'll have to estimate the oil level. It is for pulling vac on bleeding vehicle brakes.
Nice step by step. Do you have a specific oil brand you recommend?
How about a comparison of compressor noise. A 47 Kelvinator/ GE /Philco vs a modern one. Love the show
I'd rather save something old that buy something new any day. Those of us with the skills, will never starve.
Thank you. Yeah I agree totally!
F the haters ....I enjoy the videos about these types of things.
Thanks!
very interesting , thanks . saved what , $200 ? definitely worth the time , especially if you're doing it for yourself . i recently watched a vid of a business where they repair compressors (one of those countries that isn't blessed with the wealth that we enjoy) and they used a device that appeared to operate like a giant tubing cutter to cut the housing in two . did repairs , then welded back together . also very interesting .
Thanks! This compressor is a 1/3 HP size which is more difficult to get. They were used in commercial applications such as soft drink coolers and single-door reach-in coolers. Due to their being used in commercial applications mainly, the 1/3 HP size is in demand because that type equipment is repaired and maintained much longer than residential. Normally commercial kit like that would not be scraped unless the compressor is what was wrong. I've faced this before and finding a 1/3 HP working compressor like this can be very frustrating without buying new. If you want to buy a respectable brand new one, it may cost upward of $300 unless you find a one-off good deal on eBay etc. As for the repair videos from the Far East, yes I have seen those. They have been repairing these compressors in that part of the world, for a long time. The original repairers apparently are able to rebuild them and have some reasonable level of success. However, recently, there has been a spate of fake restoration videos made, which only pander for ad revenue on KZhead. Those are hurting the reputation of the real guys who actually do this work successfully. We haven't reached the point in the States that this type compressor is that hard to obtain. If, or "once" that happens, then I would also open and rebuild them. At this time, I only cut open and repair the vintage ones which are worth the effort.
1:30 that day came........ 😢😢😢
You got that right.
Hey David. Sorry for leaving a comment that doesn’t have anything to do with the video. Just had a question about a fan. I have this 16 inch Ge vortalex, the previous generation toyours. It has a very loud loose winding kind of sound. I tried jiggling the windings and they were nice and secure. I also tried adding thrust washers to reduce endplay on the rotor. It has a 2 micro farad 250 volt capacitor and I was thinking maybe that’s the issue. It is original after all. If you have any ideas please let me know. Thank you!
Very cleaver method to add oil to these little guys. I wonder if modern compressor failure is due to the use of lesser lubricant oil on post 2000 fridges.
Thanks! As for modern home-use (not commercial) compressors failing more often than vintage designs, that is a fairly debatable subject. However, from what I have seen there have definitely been compromised design concepts used in more recent designs. These stem from two problems. The first is cheapening and cost-cutting. They want to stamp these compressors out with little cost or human intervention and sell them at a maximum profit. There is so much data available now that they can calculate how much they can cheapen a design so that "most" compressors last for the "expected life" of the appliance; without spending any extra on materials and designs which would last indefinitely but cost more. Once the "expected" life (8 to 10 years) has passed, the compressor is guaranteed to be almost worn out. The second very compromised design element is using concepts which are guaranteed to make the compressor more damage-prone; to substantiate energy use / environmental claims. Use of extremely low viscosity oils lower oil shear losses in the compressor and saves energy but at a great risk to the compressor because you have much less engineering margin for oil thinning for various reasons which can happen in a system. Use of very small stator-rotor air gaps in the motors make the motor very slightly more efficient. However, once there are a few instances of accelerated wear, the rotor drags and the compressor is locked up. I made a video on one such bean-counted design. Here is a link to that one: kzhead.info/sun/d9SnnrCJhZmLnIk/bejne.html
@@davida1hiwaaynet Thank you for sharing your experience on this matter. I agree with the idea that compressor are victims to planned obsolescence and the quest to maximise profits. As for the energy efficient argument I never considered that aspect yet it does make sense. I will look into the video you linked. Thank you again for taking the time to explain condenser failure causes David.
@@AlanMedina314 You're welcome.
What if bottom of fins get frost and frost up more as it runs and never unices. Dehumidifier is not getting that warm and rest of fins not getting cold. Sounds like a lout hissing noise like air in system but not much if and refrigerent noises like it should. Could it have a leak? It does not bring humidity down much like its not working. Compressor keeps shutting off compressor while running does not seam to be moving much if any refrigerent through the evaporator. Made in 2021 r410a rotery screw compressor
This sounds like the system is very low on refrigerant. The rotary compressors you're talking about are high-side housing designs so they have to warm up fully for the refrigerant to circulate properly. If it's still doing what you describe after running 10 or 15 minutes then it's leaked down and needs to have the leak located and repaired.
@@davida1hiwaaynet arent modern dehumidifiers supposed to be a closed loop system?
Do you know anything about rotery compressors used in window acs in the 1990s? Normal output temp that goes into room. If a window ac with high and low lines available stems are there.
I rally don't know much about them. You know; all of us are attracted to things we grew up around. My family always lived in houses with central A/C so I never grew fond of window A/C units and don't really collect them like I do the fridges and antique motors. Having said that, the evaporator temperature should stay just above freezing in the high 30°F range. If it cools any colder than that, the fins will clog up with ice from the condensation. You may see some ice at first just after startup, before the refrigerant is circulating fully, but after the compressor warms up, the whole coil should be cold and sweating, but not frosting.
❤️
An R-12 system uses mineral oil correct? Is it sensitive to moisture as well? I have a 1950s hotpoint fridge with a rusted out line that i have been going to fix for a couple of years now and it has been repetitively put on the back burner.
Hi Walter. You're correct that R12 systems use mineral oil. This oil was dehydrated during manufacture and will absorb moisture. It will also oxidize if allowed to remain open to air. You definitely should change the oil in that compressor at a minimum. It also would not hurt to use heat and an overnight evacuation on it since it's been open for so long.
@@davida1hiwaaynet Yes, I do plan on changing the oil in it. I am not sure exactly when I will get around to working on it again, but I did cap off the lines, although It was not under vacuum, or have nitrogen or anything like that in it. Originally when I had gotten it, the line had just broken during transport due to heavy rusting, so I was going to solder a new section in, ad a service port, vacuum and add R-152A which is supposedly compatible with the old oil R-12 used? but now, since I have to change the oil anyway, could I use POE oil and charge it with 134A, or should I just use mineral oil and use 152? I know PAG oil is not good for electric compressors, but POE supposedly is.
@@WalterKnox Sounds like a plan, however, it is a bad idea to use POE oil in an older compressor designed for mineral oil. It can stir up things which will circulate. Also some of the materials may swell because of it. You would be fine to replace the oil with alkylbenzene oil. It is similar to mineral oil and will not harm the compressor.
Well, 3 years ago, I would say this is a waste of time (of course, it's your time to waste). But these days, save anything that can be saved, because parts shortages are the 'new normal.' At any time, any part you need can suddenly and without warning nor reason become unavailable.
It's a shame to have to think like that, but it is a real problem we are facing in many sectors. I had to wait 9 months for a fuel tank last year, as an example.
I have quite a few nos compressors if you want them
@ 2:50 I'd guess right on the order of 150 - 160cc.
Sounds reasonable!
Can a compressor that hasn't run in a long time be saved? I have an early 90's air conditioner I want to use, but the compressor seem a bit weak or seized even though the unit looks nearly brand new inside & out. The previous owner said they hardly used it
Yes, they can, depending on what is wrong with it. If the compressor is stuck because it has dried up oil on the parts, you can often get it going. This happens if the lines are left open to air for a long time and the oil dries and oxidizes. If your unit is still sealed up and charged with refrigerant, there is likely something else wrong with it. If it is sealed and charged, sitting does not really have any effect on it.
@@davida1hiwaaynet Hard start kit can work wonders on that, likely weak because the capacitor is low in value. New capacitor and it will run most likely, especially on a window wall where it got a few bake cycles on it.
Interesting. The previous owner told me the technicians they hired had to dump most of the refrigerant in the unit to the atmosphere because the compressor is too weak to pull it all into the condensing unit. The compressor can't even handle running for more than 5 minutes with the correct charge. Can I get your recommendation on what the best next step is to fix that AC?
First off, is this a window unit, or other package unit? Or; is it a split system? It almost sounds like someone put R22 in an R12 unit, or possibly R410A into an R22 unit. Something with a much higher pressure than the compressor is engineered for. In my younger days I did that, putting R22 into an R12 unit. That resulted in the same issue you describe - it would run a few minutes and either, overload trip - or the compressor would actually bog down and stall, then the overload would trip. As Sean mentioned in his comment above, be sure the compressor run capacitor is working correctly. That is necessary for starting and for developing full rated power while running. If that is bad, the compressor will have low power and high current draw. Assuming that isn't the problem, you may have a factory defect of some sort. That would be especially likely considering the unit looks like new, but is 40 years old. It's like every owner who had it in their possession was not able to use it and wear it out.... because it never worked right. Look to be sure the compressor is marked for the refrigerant in use. Also, measure the current draw and see what that looks like as the unit is started up and as it builds up to the point where it is about to trip out or stall. Make sure the Main and Capacitor winding circuits on the compressor motor aren't swapped.
It's an R22 220V minisplit. I don't know whether the previous owner used proper refrigerant for it or not, but I tested the unit with R22 when it came to me. It drew 0.9 Amps past its rating with 80 PSI of R22. Can a weak compressor run capacitor cause that issue? I've not tried replacing it yet though
Is there any risk of chips from the drilling/tapping remaining inside the compressor and causing a problem later on?
Yep, there is that risk. That's the reason I always put nitrogen pressure in the compressor housing during the drilling and tapping. It ensures that any swarf blows out as opposed to falling in. It's a risk to me from flying swarf, but I can manage it by safety glasses and being careful.
@@davida1hiwaaynet Oh! Yeah, I wondered if maybe the N charge was for that reason. :-)
@@DanielJStern Yep! You got it right.
We're throwing away better compressors than we're buying new....i.e. LG Linear compressor. I'm seeing some very nice LG refrigerators that have broken compressors.
I agree! Those linear compressors are nothing but scrap metal even when new.
Flush the compressor out with flush and replace with Poe oil or whichever oil is compatible with refrigerant being no drilling needed
Actually; you never put flush or any solvent through a compressor. Only compressor oil.
What was wrong with it in first place
That compressor came from a commercial drink cooler which had been clogged with leak sealant. I replaced the leaking lines, and had to remove the contaminated oil saturated with leak sealant. The capillary tube would repeatedly clog up otherwise.
To fast rpm for drilling
No, not too fast for this size bit and material.
@@davida1hiwaaynet im random guy from internet i know better xD Goodnight
@@gelo1238 LOL no I'm not trying to be argumentative. I appreciate your comments on my other videos as well. I just need to justify how I was doing this job. There are certain speeds best for s given drill size in certain metals. Charts are pretty easy to find online. If one were using a drill press with defined speeds, it would be easy to set a speed based on a chart. However, using a hand drill one has to rely upon experience. If anything; I was running the drill a lot slower than recommended. The thread size for the tap is 8-32, so the drill bit for that tap is a 9/64" bit. Most drill charts for that size bit recommend a maximum speed in mild steel of about 3000 RPM. The drill I was using doesn't go that fast even at full speed.
do not make hole or drill at bottom, later cause to leak ㅐㅑㅣ.
Actually, no. No; it will not cause a leak once the plug is soldered in place with StayBrite-8.